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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The General Election – identifying the top bell weather seats

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  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    Betfair odds on "2020 GE or later" has gone out a touch to 5.1. Tempting.

  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    SunnyJim said:

    I said much the same on the last thread.

    As far as I am concerned, regardless of whether the amendments for 16s or EU Citz is passed, it is now fair game for a future majority government to address the integrity of our voting system by applying reasonable Voter ID checks at all future elections.

    The intent is clearly there on the part of opposition parties to gerrymander so for the sake of democracy a Conservative government should move to protect peoples faith in their vote.

    Does Lewis read PB?

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1189219989401804800
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828

    Cyclefree said:

    I know Brexit and this on-off GE consumes all the attention on here but there are, gasp, a number of other interesting stories out there:-

    1. The Grenfell report, the criticism of the Fire Service and the resignation of the head of the Fire Service.
    2. Yet another inquiry into the inquiry into Operation Midland.
    3. IS taking over the camps where they were held prisoner, as a result of the Turkish fight with the Kurds, and what this means for the possibility of IS regrouping / mutating under another leader.
    4. The protests in Iraq and what this might lead to.
    5. The Dispatches programme on contacts between civil servants and US trade negotiators re medicine pricing.

    Just saying ......

    The lack of attention these things are getting is another example of the infantile state that Brexiteers have brought us to.
    It takes two to tango. It could have been resolved one way or another by now and other matters would be heard.
  • Pierrot said:

    16yos shouldn't get the vote. There's no reason there should be one single age at which teenagers should get the right to do every adult thing. It's fair to compare the right to vote with the right to agree a contract or the eligibility for jury service. It's not fair to compare it to the right to have sex, and 16yos and 17yos shouldn't be in the armed forces anyway. Plus most 16yos are very gullible.

    Similarly I can't see why foreign citizens who aren't also British citizens should get the vote either, although with (legally not foreign) RoI citizens the arrangements should probably best be left as they are. I had no sympathy with those Norwegian citizens living in Britain who bemoaned the possibility of problems arising with their residence rights after Brexit, explaining that they've lived here for decades and the only reason they haven't applied for British citizenship is that their own government won't let them - meaning that if they obtained British citizenship they'd get stripped of the Norwegian citizenship that is clearly more important to them even though they live in Britain. Well, tough. Treaty obligations between countries change and there was and is nothing stopping them from applying to become British even if it means losing the citizenship of some country they don't live in.

    But politics is dirty. Elections are a game.

    Meanwhile most Tories who believe it's disgraceful that Labour and the LDs want to give Romanians the vote haven't been campaigning for years for Canadians, Pakistanis, Indians, Cypriots, etc. to be deprived of it.

    Lots of foreign citizens already have the vote. Irish and Commonwealth citizens who live here have been able to vote in the UK for decades. No good reason not to extend that to EU citizens IMO.
    There is good reason to remove it from anyone who is not a British citizen.
    Depending on your POV. I think there is a very logical reason to say anyone who is a British Citizen or who has paid tax for the last year. No taxation without representation. If we do not want foreigners voting then they should not have to pay tax, or at least significantly less. that seems fair to me.
    Restricting the franchise to tax payers sounds like an interesting idea. It could be tacked onto the next Finance Bill as a one-line amendment.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    Boris Johnson wanted to rush through implementing the biggest economic and political upheaval in decades on a 3 day timetable so all this talk by the government that we must surely take 6 months to study the merits of votes for 16 year olds rings a bit hollow. We can ram through brexit but not this?

    Unlikely the amendments would get through but surely the government is being chicken by threatening to pull the bill unless it gets exactly what it wants? Will Corbyn start sending back that KFC merchandise the tories sent him in September?
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    DanSmith said:
    Extending to EU citizens would not cost anything - they are already on the electoral register for local and European elections. Extending to 16-17 year olds, on the other hand, would require a registration exercise.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    edited October 2019
    Leavers are now spinning off the debate into amendments that haven’t yet been moved or accepted. Edit/ Bercow now trying to stop it.

    This is clearly Brexiter time wasting.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    Andy_Cooke says:

    "Should children be allowed to get married?
    Or have sex?
    Or drive cars and motorbikes?
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present?
    Change their name by deed poll?
    Fly planes and helicopters?"


    Should children be allowed to get married? NO
    Or have sex? IF OVER 16 AND THEY CHOOSE TO
    Or drive cars and motorbikes? NO
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present? NO
    Change their name by deed poll? NO
    Fly planes and helicopters?" NO

    And....

    Be able to vote in a GE? NO
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    Bercow:

    "To animadvert upon an amendment is in order; to dilate on it is not..."
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151
    Have we got a time for when we're expecting this to be wrapped up one way or another?

    Are we looking at a 10pm finish (again) ?
  • Dennis Skinner is looking old. He always seemed immortal.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828
    edited October 2019
    SunnyJim said:

    SunnyJim said:

    I said much the same on the last thread.

    As far as I am concerned, regardless of whether the amendments for 16s or EU Citz is passed, it is now fair game for a future majority government to address the integrity of our voting system by applying reasonable Voter ID checks at all future elections.

    The intent is clearly there on the part of opposition parties to gerrymander so for the sake of democracy a Conservative government should move to protect peoples faith in their vote.

    Does Lewis read PB?

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1189219989401804800
    Yep. If you dont trust Boris or his successors, ir Corbyn, dont give them carte blanche to mess things about so suddenly next time they have a chance.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106


    Depending on your POV. I think there is a very logical reason to say anyone who is a British Citizen or who has paid tax for the last year. No taxation without representation. If we do not want foreigners voting then they should not have to pay tax, or at least significantly less. that seems fair to me.

    Couldn't agree more Nigel Fortories.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Boris Johnson wanted to rush through implementing the biggest economic and political upheaval in decades on a 3 day timetable so all this talk by the government that we must surely take 6 months to study the merits of votes for 16 year olds rings a bit hollow. We can ram through brexit but not this?

    Unlikely the amendments would get through but surely the government is being chicken by threatening to pull the bill unless it gets exactly what it wants? Will Corbyn start sending back that KFC merchandise the tories sent him in September?

    Hypocrisy from politicians?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    If BJ pulls the election bill. He will rightly be seen as chicken! He went around calling people chlorenated chicken or frieghtened of voters and the like. He cannot have it both ways...

    That would be an amusing outcome. Although I think all of this "chicken" talk is infantile. It's not a fight behind the bike shed. It's the reality of UK politics under the FTPA.
  • SunnyJimSunnyJim Posts: 1,106
    Dec 19 price on BF has just collapsed in (best back 1.12).

    Something just been announced? Surely not on the back of Tusk's tweet?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151

    Dennis Skinner is looking old. He always seemed immortal.

    Is he standing at the next election?

    Not sure how The Beast Of Bolsover would cope with losing his seat to a Tory! :open_mouth:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,390
    Stocky said:

    Betfair odds on "2020 GE or later" has gone out a touch to 5.1. Tempting.

    Indeed. Given the chances of this lot screwing up the vote tonight. I'm on for a couple of quid.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    IanB2 said:

    This second reading is wall to wall leavers making long speeches. Are they trying to reduce the time remaining for the committee stage and amendments?

    An attempt to reduce us all to catatonia, perhaps.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    The_Taxman said:
    "If BJ pulls the election bill. He will rightly be seen as chicken! "

    Either that or principled. (I`ve got my hard hat on again.)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,344
    IanB2 said:

    Leavers are now spinning off the debate into amendments that haven’t yet been moved or accepted. Edit/ Bercow now trying to stop it.

    This is clearly Brexiter time wasting.

    Are you expecting them to run the clock down to 11pm, 31st January?
  • Dennis Skinner is looking old. He always seemed immortal.

    He's 87, which surprised me when I checked.

    Is he planning to retire? I assumed he'd be the sort to carry on until the end.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    rottenborough says: "Stocky said:
    Betfair odds on "2020 GE or later" has gone out a touch to 5.1. Tempting.

    Indeed. Given the chances of this lot screwing up the vote tonight. I'm on for a couple of quid."

    Gone out to 7.0 now! Someone thinks that these amendments are not going to be selected by the Speaker.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Dennis Skinner is looking old. He always seemed immortal.

    He's almost 90 I think.
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979

    Boris Johnson wanted to rush through implementing the biggest economic and political upheaval in decades on a 3 day timetable so all this talk by the government that we must surely take 6 months to study the merits of votes for 16 year olds rings a bit hollow. We can ram through brexit but not this?

    Unlikely the amendments would get through but surely the government is being chicken by threatening to pull the bill unless it gets exactly what it wants? Will Corbyn start sending back that KFC merchandise the tories sent him in September?

    +1. I would. BJ is chicken if he pulls the bill! :wink:
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    The BBC reports the European Council has formally approved the extension, in case anyone was wondering.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,993
    Stocky said:

    Andy_Cooke says:

    "Should children be allowed to get married?
    Or have sex?
    Or drive cars and motorbikes?
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present?
    Change their name by deed poll?
    Fly planes and helicopters?"


    Should children be allowed to get married? NO (Age 16 with parents consent)
    Or have sex? IF OVER 16 AND THEY CHOOSE TO (Age 16)
    Or drive cars and motorbikes? NO (Age 16 and 17)
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present? NO (Age 17)
    Change their name by deed poll? NO (Age 16)
    Fly planes and helicopters?" NO (Age 17)

    And....

    Be able to vote in a GE? NO

    Current ages for all of those is added in bold above. I take it then that you would raise the age for all of those to 18?
    Would you lower the ages for adopting a child (21), driving HGVs (21), supervising a learner driver (21 with 3 years experience), commercial pilots licence (21)?
    After all, if they are adults, why deny them their rights?

  • rpjs said:

    Pierrot said:

    16yos shouldn't get the vote. There's no reason there should be one single age at which teenagers should get the right to do every adult thing. It's fair to compare the right to vote with the right to agree a contract or the eligibility for jury service. It's not fair to compare it to the right to have sex, and 16yos and 17yos shouldn't be in the armed forces anyway. Plus most 16yos are very gullible.

    Similarly I can't see why foreign citizens who aren't also British citizens should get the vote either, although with (legally not foreign) RoI citizens the arrangements should probably best be left as they are. I had no sympathy with those Norwegian citizens living in Britain who bemoaned the possibility of problems arising with their residence rights after Brexit, explaining that they've lived here for decades and the only reason they haven't applied for British citizenship is that their own government won't let them - meaning that if they obtained British citizenship they'd get stripped of the Norwegian citizenship that is clearly more important to them even though they live in Britain. Well, tough. Treaty obligations between countries change and there was and is nothing stopping them from applying to become British even if it means losing the citizenship of some country they don't live in.

    But politics is dirty. Elections are a game.

    Meanwhile most Tories who believe it's disgraceful that Labour and the LDs want to give Romanians the vote haven't been campaigning for years for Canadians, Pakistanis, Indians, Cypriots, etc. to be deprived of it.

    Lots of foreign citizens already have the vote. Irish and Commonwealth citizens who live here have been able to vote in the UK for decades. No good reason not to extend that to EU citizens IMO.
    There is good reason to remove it from anyone who is not a British citizen.
    Sigh. And disenfranchise a large chunk of Northern Ireland?
    Why not? I am in favour of a united Ireland anyway. Speed thing along.

    Besides if they are not British citizens they should not have the vote in UK Parliamentary elections.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    Andy:Cooke: yes and yes (though perhaps I was hasty on the driving question)
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,390
    edited October 2019
    Phillips on now. An amusing speech so far.

    She invited Johnson to apply for a private members bill, seeing as he can't manage to change the law in other ways.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,390
    Stocky said:

    rottenborough says: "Stocky said:
    Betfair odds on "2020 GE or later" has gone out a touch to 5.1. Tempting.

    Indeed. Given the chances of this lot screwing up the vote tonight. I'm on for a couple of quid."

    Gone out to 7.0 now! Someone thinks that these amendments are not going to be selected by the Speaker.

    Was 8 briefly. I didn't hit the key fast enough
  • timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    DanSmith said:
    So Mr Grieve for once has been scupperes
  • Phillips talking about the ridiculous thing people do in Elections introducing someone as "the next Prime Minister" - is she talking about her own Dear Leader?
  • Pierrot said:

    16yos shouldn't get the vote. There's no reason there should be one single age at which teenagers should get the right to do every adult thing. It's fair to compare the right to vote with the right to agree a contract or the eligibility for jury service. It's not fair to compare it to the right to have sex, and 16yos and 17yos shouldn't be in the armed forces anyway. Plus most 16yos are very gullible.

    Similarly I can't see why foreign citizens who aren't also British citizens should get the vote either, although with (legally not foreign) RoI citizens the arrangements should probably best be left as they are. I had no sympathy with those Norwegian citizens living in Britain who bemoaned the possibility of problems arising with their residence rights after Brexit, explaining that they've lived here for decades and the only reason they haven't applied for British citizenship is that their own government won't let them - meaning that if they obtained British citizenship they'd get stripped of the Norwegian citizenship that is clearly more important to them even though they live in Britain. Well, tough. Treaty obligations between countries change and there was and is nothing stopping them from applying to become British even if it means losing the citizenship of some country they don't live in.

    But politics is dirty. Elections are a game.

    Meanwhile most Tories who believe it's disgraceful that Labour and the LDs want to give Romanians the vote haven't been campaigning for years for Canadians, Pakistanis, Indians, Cypriots, etc. to be deprived of it.

    Lots of foreign citizens already have the vote. Irish and Commonwealth citizens who live here have been able to vote in the UK for decades. No good reason not to extend that to EU citizens IMO.
    There is good reason to remove it from anyone who is not a British citizen.
    Depending on your POV. I think there is a very logical reason to say anyone who is a British Citizen or who has paid tax for the last year. No taxation without representation. If we do not want foreigners voting then they should not have to pay tax, or at least significantly less. that seems fair to me.
    And yet runs counter to the rules in almost every other country in the EU. I wonder why that is?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Dennis Skinner is looking old. He always seemed immortal.

    He's 87, which surprised me when I checked.

    Is he planning to retire? I assumed he'd be the sort to carry on until the end.
    He's in danger of losing his seat for the first time in his career. Majority is only 10% in a general area which is swinging to the Tories, like adjacent NE Derbyshire.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    edited October 2019
    Cyclefree said:

    I know Brexit and this on-off GE consumes all the attention on here but there are, gasp, a number of other interesting stories out there:-

    1. The Grenfell report, the criticism of the Fire Service and the resignation of the head of the Fire Service.
    2. Yet another inquiry into the inquiry into Operation Midland.
    3. IS taking over the camps where they were held prisoner, as a result of the Turkish fight with the Kurds, and what this means for the possibility of IS regrouping / mutating under another leader.
    4. The protests in Iraq and what this might lead to.
    5. The Dispatches programme on contacts between civil servants and US trade negotiators re medicine pricing.

    Just saying ......

    And the Ambassador to the EU probably perjured himself on Trump's behalf over the Ukraine affair:
    https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/29/gordon-sondland-perjury-charges-061056
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,390
    Phillips: "No one can answer what happens when there is a returned another hung parliament"
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Phillips: "No one can answer what happens when there is a returned another hung parliament"

    She could be Labour leader one day quite soon IMO.
  • Dennis Skinner is looking old. He always seemed immortal.

    He's 87, which surprised me when I checked.

    Is he planning to retire? I assumed he'd be the sort to carry on until the end.
    No idea. But we’ll miss his type of MP.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,390
    Daily Mail website headline writers have had to change their lead on Xmas GE yet again.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151
    So we should know what's happening by 9pm?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,853

    Phillips: "No one can answer what happens when there is a returned another hung parliament"

    Well of course. Lets see how the chips fall first though.

    Anywhere else would have revoted by now.
  • AndyJS said:

    Phillips: "No one can answer what happens when there is a returned another hung parliament"

    She could be Labour leader one day quite soon IMO.
    I don't think the Tories would be keen on an early election if she was.
  • AndyJS said:

    Dennis Skinner is looking old. He always seemed immortal.

    He's 87, which surprised me when I checked.

    Is he planning to retire? I assumed he'd be the sort to carry on until the end.
    He's in danger of losing his seat for the first time in his career. Majority is only 10% in a general area which is swinging to the Tories, like adjacent NE Derbyshire.
    He should be Father of The House if re-elected, but I understand he doesn't want to do it.

    Was surprised at the swing against him at the last GE, but that is a part of the country I do not know well.

    He said he'd go at 65, then Cameron kept goading him to retire, so he said he was staying on.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,390
    Phillips: "Our electoral laws are not fit for purpose"

    Wall of foreign money will flood in if we have a GE.
  • Daily Mail website headline writers have had to change their lead on Xmas GE yet again.

    Why
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,767

    Phillips: "No one can answer what happens when there is a returned another hung parliament"

    Then you figure that out, but putting the cart before the horse frankly.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,390

    AndyJS said:

    Phillips: "No one can answer what happens when there is a returned another hung parliament"

    She could be Labour leader one day quite soon IMO.
    I don't think the Tories would be keen on an early election if she was.
    Phillips would terrify Johnson's Tories.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,390

    Daily Mail website headline writers have had to change their lead on Xmas GE yet again.

    Why
    It was saying GE definitely on an hour or so ago.

    Now saying Corbyn is blocking it.

  • Dennis Skinner is looking old. He always seemed immortal.

    He's 87, which surprised me when I checked.

    Is he planning to retire? I assumed he'd be the sort to carry on until the end.
    I think he's planning to leave in a pine box in due course.

    It's conceivable he could lose to the Tories this time - only a 5% swing needed. However, that it's one of the ones the Tories are relying on for their majority (assuming some losses to the Lib Dems in the south and SNP in Scotland) makes me question the strategy. When push comes to shove, can Skinner and Co twist the arms of enough Brexiters who are traditionally Labour... ultimately, I suspect the bridge will hold.

    I do rather like Skinner. He tours the nursing homes in his area singing old songs for dementia patients, in memory of his Mum who died some years ago having had Alzheimer's Disease. Beneath the bluff exterior, I think he's a rather sweet, sensitive soul.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,502


    Current ages for all of those is added in bold above. I take it then that you would raise the age for all of those to 18?
    Would you lower the ages for adopting a child (21), driving HGVs (21), supervising a learner driver (21 with 3 years experience), commercial pilots licence (21)?
    After all, if they are adults, why deny them their rights?

    I'm a radical on this - I think that people sufficiently interested in democracy to want to make the very small contribution of voting should be encouraged to do so at any age, although I'd accept some modest minimum like 10 to ensure they had a chance to learn the basics. I see nothing special about turning 18, or 16, that imparts greater wisdom, and I know plenty of level-headed children and scatterbrained older people. We complain that young people are insufficiently interested in society and then prevent them from taking part.

    I wouldn't lower the age for things like driving HGVs, for which a small mistake can be fatal. Important though voting is, I wouldn't say that voting unwisely is usually fatal.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    AndyJS said:

    Phillips: "No one can answer what happens when there is a returned another hung parliament"

    She could be Labour leader one day quite soon IMO.
    I don't think the Tories would be keen on an early election if she was.
    Phillips would terrify Johnson's Tories.
    She's the only MP I've met in person, because she was selling the big issue outside Birmingham New Street Station about a year ago and I decided to buy a copy.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151
    edited October 2019

    Phillips: "No one can answer what happens when there is a returned another hung parliament"

    It would depend on the exact make up of the numbers.

    Hung Parliament Lab largest party + SNP/Lib-Dem/Green and we'll be looking at another refernedum,

    Hung Parliamment Con largest Party + BXP and we're looking at a WTA exit.

    Hung Parliament + No viable givernment and we're totally ******
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268

    Stocky said:

    Andy_Cooke says:

    "Should children be allowed to get married?
    Or have sex?
    Or drive cars and motorbikes?
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present?
    Change their name by deed poll?
    Fly planes and helicopters?"


    Should children be allowed to get married? NO (Age 16 with parents consent)
    Or have sex? IF OVER 16 AND THEY CHOOSE TO (Age 16)
    Or drive cars and motorbikes? NO (Age 16 and 17)
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present? NO (Age 17)
    Change their name by deed poll? NO (Age 16)
    Fly planes and helicopters?" NO (Age 17)

    And....

    Be able to vote in a GE? NO

    Current ages for all of those is added in bold above. I take it then that you would raise the age for all of those to 18?
    Would you lower the ages for adopting a child (21), driving HGVs (21), supervising a learner driver (21 with 3 years experience), commercial pilots licence (21)?
    After all, if they are adults, why deny them their rights?

    I would put all of that at 18.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Cyclefree said:

    I know Brexit and this on-off GE consumes all the attention on here but there are, gasp, a number of other interesting stories out there:-

    1. The Grenfell report, the criticism of the Fire Service and the resignation of the head of the Fire Service.
    2. Yet another inquiry into the inquiry into Operation Midland.
    3. IS taking over the camps where they were held prisoner, as a result of the Turkish fight with the Kurds, and what this means for the possibility of IS regrouping / mutating under another leader.
    4. The protests in Iraq and what this might lead to.
    5. The Dispatches programme on contacts between civil servants and US trade negotiators re medicine pricing.

    Just saying ......

    Did this blog used to discuss other stuff before 2016 then?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,767

    AndyJS said:

    Phillips: "No one can answer what happens when there is a returned another hung parliament"

    She could be Labour leader one day quite soon IMO.
    I don't think the Tories would be keen on an early election if she was.
    Phillips would terrify Johnson's Tories.
    Not really. She'd be terrible on policy.
  • kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I know Brexit and this on-off GE consumes all the attention on here but there are, gasp, a number of other interesting stories out there:-

    1. The Grenfell report, the criticism of the Fire Service and the resignation of the head of the Fire Service.
    2. Yet another inquiry into the inquiry into Operation Midland.
    3. IS taking over the camps where they were held prisoner, as a result of the Turkish fight with the Kurds, and what this means for the possibility of IS regrouping / mutating under another leader.
    4. The protests in Iraq and what this might lead to.
    5. The Dispatches programme on contacts between civil servants and US trade negotiators re medicine pricing.

    Just saying ......

    Did this blog used to discuss other stuff before 2016 then?
    It used to be all fields round here, lad.

    AV, pizza toppings, and the occasional by-election was how we spent our days.
  • kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I know Brexit and this on-off GE consumes all the attention on here but there are, gasp, a number of other interesting stories out there:-

    1. The Grenfell report, the criticism of the Fire Service and the resignation of the head of the Fire Service.
    2. Yet another inquiry into the inquiry into Operation Midland.
    3. IS taking over the camps where they were held prisoner, as a result of the Turkish fight with the Kurds, and what this means for the possibility of IS regrouping / mutating under another leader.
    4. The protests in Iraq and what this might lead to.
    5. The Dispatches programme on contacts between civil servants and US trade negotiators re medicine pricing.

    Just saying ......

    Did this blog used to discuss other stuff before 2016 then?
    Once upon a time Parliament even used to discuss other things.....
  • Gabs2Gabs2 Posts: 1,268


    Current ages for all of those is added in bold above. I take it then that you would raise the age for all of those to 18?
    Would you lower the ages for adopting a child (21), driving HGVs (21), supervising a learner driver (21 with 3 years experience), commercial pilots licence (21)?
    After all, if they are adults, why deny them their rights?

    I'm a radical on this - I think that people sufficiently interested in democracy to want to make the very small contribution of voting should be encouraged to do so at any age, although I'd accept some modest minimum like 10 to ensure they had a chance to learn the basics. I see nothing special about turning 18, or 16, that imparts greater wisdom, and I know plenty of level-headed children and scatterbrained older people. We complain that young people are insufficiently interested in society and then prevent them from taking part.

    I wouldn't lower the age for things like driving HGVs, for which a small mistake can be fatal. Important though voting is, I wouldn't say that voting unwisely is usually fatal.
    Could be for the country with the likes of Corbyn around.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Professor John Curtice makes a prediction on @LBC:

    “I will make a prediction. There are going to be a record number of non-Conservative and non-Labour MPs as a result of this election.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163

    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I know Brexit and this on-off GE consumes all the attention on here but there are, gasp, a number of other interesting stories out there:-

    1. The Grenfell report, the criticism of the Fire Service and the resignation of the head of the Fire Service.
    2. Yet another inquiry into the inquiry into Operation Midland.
    3. IS taking over the camps where they were held prisoner, as a result of the Turkish fight with the Kurds, and what this means for the possibility of IS regrouping / mutating under another leader.
    4. The protests in Iraq and what this might lead to.
    5. The Dispatches programme on contacts between civil servants and US trade negotiators re medicine pricing.

    Just saying ......

    Did this blog used to discuss other stuff before 2016 then?
    It used to be all fields round here, lad.

    AV, pizza toppings, and the occasional by-election was how we spent our days.
    Shoes, vegetables left in the cupboard, Tim....
  • The_TaxmanThe_Taxman Posts: 2,979
    edited October 2019

    Daily Mail website headline writers have had to change their lead on Xmas GE yet again.

    Why
    It was saying GE definitely on an hour or so ago.

    Now saying Corbyn is blocking it.

    But Corbyn would not be blocking it! It would be BJ being chicken...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828

    Boris Johnson wanted to rush through implementing the biggest economic and political upheaval in decades on a 3 day timetable so all this talk by the government that we must surely take 6 months to study the merits of votes for 16 year olds rings a bit hollow. We can ram through brexit but not this?

    Unlikely the amendments would get through but surely the government is being chicken by threatening to pull the bill unless it gets exactly what it wants? Will Corbyn start sending back that KFC merchandise the tories sent him in September?

    Its not hollow from those also opposed to ramming the WAIB through in 3 days, and more to the point children are taught someone else behaving poorly is no excuse for doing so ourselves, and the same applies to ramming through procedure for partisan advantage. Think what governments will do with both the bad practice of ramming through bulls and tacking on major changes
  • Time_to_LeaveTime_to_Leave Posts: 2,547
    edited October 2019

    Votes at 16 and for EU nationals not selected, and the Lords won’t play silly buggers. It’s on.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Gabs2 said:

    I would put all of that at 18.

    Adopt a child at 18? That feels wrong.

    I think the desire for perfect consistency in these matter is misplaced.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,344

    Votes at 16 and for EU nationals not selected, and the Lords won’t play silly buggers. It’s on.

    Woot woot!
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I know Brexit and this on-off GE consumes all the attention on here but there are, gasp, a number of other interesting stories out there:-

    1. The Grenfell report, the criticism of the Fire Service and the resignation of the head of the Fire Service.
    2. Yet another inquiry into the inquiry into Operation Midland.
    3. IS taking over the camps where they were held prisoner, as a result of the Turkish fight with the Kurds, and what this means for the possibility of IS regrouping / mutating under another leader.
    4. The protests in Iraq and what this might lead to.
    5. The Dispatches programme on contacts between civil servants and US trade negotiators re medicine pricing.

    Just saying ......

    Did this blog used to discuss other stuff before 2016 then?
    We used to discuss whether Morris’s F1 tips would come good before or after Brexit (noting his recent good run). Those were the days...
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Didn't expect Ed Vaizey to use the phrase "substantial girth" during his speech.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828

    AndyJS said:

    Dennis Skinner is looking old. He always seemed immortal.

    He's 87, which surprised me when I checked.

    Is he planning to retire? I assumed he'd be the sort to carry on until the end.
    He's in danger of losing his seat for the first time in his career. Majority is only 10% in a general area which is swinging to the Tories, like adjacent NE Derbyshire.
    He should be Father of The House if re-elected, but I understand he doesn't want to do it.

    Was surprised at the swing against him at the last GE, but that is a part of the country I do not know well.

    He said he'd go at 65, then Cameron kept goading him to retire, so he said he was staying on.
    Cameron was strangely influential then given how long ago Skinner was 65.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,873
    Stocky said:

    Andy_Cooke says:

    "Should children be allowed to get married?
    Or have sex?
    Or drive cars and motorbikes?
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present?
    Change their name by deed poll?
    Fly planes and helicopters?"


    Should children be allowed to get married? NO
    Or have sex? IF OVER 16 AND THEY CHOOSE TO
    Or drive cars and motorbikes? NO
    Should the police be allowed to interrogate children without an adult present? NO
    Change their name by deed poll? NO
    Fly planes and helicopters?" NO

    And....

    Be able to vote in a GE? NO

    Surely regarding children, sex and voting should be treated similarly.

    It should be theoretically illegal but unless there's influence from an adult, and the people are nearly of age, then it's largely ignored and accepted.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    Just received below from BXP.

    I`m not sure how worried Tories should be about BXP now.


    "Dear Supporter,

    With a Brexit General Election imminent, it has never been more urgent for us to be able to communicate with our supporters and potential voters.

    We already have something important ready to post to you. Unfortunately, it seems that we only have part of your contact details on record.

    It would be a great help if you could click on the button below and fill in the form with your full details, including postal address.



    CLICK HERE TO FILL IN FORM


    Thank you for your continuing support. With your help, we are ready to fight for a real Brexit in the General Election.

    Yours,

    Paul Oakden

    Head of Campaigning, The Brexit Party "



  • My intro to PB was finding it through a recommendation on Twitter, around the time of the Glasgow East by-election. I won a nice sum, thanks to advice on here.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Glasgow_East_by-election

    It would be nice if this current predicament draws to some sort of conclusion, and we can get back to trying to win money...
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Bercow imposes 3 minute limit.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    I’d be up for raising the minimum age at which one is allowed to post to PB.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    And now a three minute time limit to members speeches !
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828
    Stocky said:

    Just received below from BXP.

    I`m not sure how worried Tories should be about BXP now.


    "Dear Supporter,

    With a Brexit General Election imminent, it has never been more urgent for us to be able to communicate with our supporters and potential voters.

    We already have something important ready to post to you. Unfortunately, it seems that we only have part of your contact details on record.

    It would be a great help if you could click on the button below and fill in the form with your full details, including postal address.



    CLICK HERE TO FILL IN FORM


    Thank you for your continuing support. With your help, we are ready to fight for a real Brexit in the General Election.

    Yours,

    Paul Oakden

    Head of Campaigning, The Brexit Party "



    They dont need to be very effective to change the result, but labour still need a good recovery first.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    kinabalu said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I know Brexit and this on-off GE consumes all the attention on here but there are, gasp, a number of other interesting stories out there:-

    1. The Grenfell report, the criticism of the Fire Service and the resignation of the head of the Fire Service.
    2. Yet another inquiry into the inquiry into Operation Midland.
    3. IS taking over the camps where they were held prisoner, as a result of the Turkish fight with the Kurds, and what this means for the possibility of IS regrouping / mutating under another leader.
    4. The protests in Iraq and what this might lead to.
    5. The Dispatches programme on contacts between civil servants and US trade negotiators re medicine pricing.

    Just saying ......

    Did this blog used to discuss other stuff before 2016 then?
    Amazingly it did. Those were the days ......
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,344
    edited October 2019
    IanB2 said:

    Professor John Curtice makes a prediction on @LBC:

    “I will make a prediction. There are going to be a record number of non-Conservative and non-Labour MPs as a result of this election.

    What's the highest number to date?

    (Surely if you go all the way back to the days of Whigs and Tories, Professor....?)
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,551

    Dennis Skinner is looking old. He always seemed immortal.

    I noticed that yesterday. He seems out of it. An old man sitting on a park bench watching the world go by.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828
    Cyclefree said:
    He seems genuinely thoughtful, not arrogant and reactionary to criticism. The EU could use more like him.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I know Brexit and this on-off GE consumes all the attention on here but there are, gasp, a number of other interesting stories out there:-

    1. The Grenfell report, the criticism of the Fire Service and the resignation of the head of the Fire Service.
    2. Yet another inquiry into the inquiry into Operation Midland.
    3. IS taking over the camps where they were held prisoner, as a result of the Turkish fight with the Kurds, and what this means for the possibility of IS regrouping / mutating under another leader.
    4. The protests in Iraq and what this might lead to.
    5. The Dispatches programme on contacts between civil servants and US trade negotiators re medicine pricing.

    Just saying ......

    Also some interesting developments in the UK's relationship with Huawei (though admittedly this is from yesterday);

    https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1335241
    It appears that the UK is a good place for China right now, on two counts at least. One is Arm confirming that some of its UK-developed architectures are outside the scope of current U.S. export restrictions. The second is news over the weekend suggesting the British Prime Minister is set to allow Huawei supply to non-contentious parts of the 5G network....
    The way our universities are allowing Chinese money to skew their principles of free speech and free inquiry. Another important issue.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774

    IanB2 said:

    Professor John Curtice makes a prediction on @LBC:

    “I will make a prediction. There are going to be a record number of non-Conservative and non-Labour MPs as a result of this election.

    What's the highest number to date?

    (Surely if you go all the way back to the days of Whigs and Tories, Professor....?)
    Don’t all political records start in 1945?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151
    edited October 2019
    Will the government accept 9th December if the amendment passes? (I think they should)
  • BBC

    Only amendment on date

    All others rejected
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,828
    IanB2 said:

    Professor John Curtice makes a prediction on @LBC:

    “I will make a prediction. There are going to be a record number of non-Conservative and non-Labour MPs as a result of this election.

    Interesting. My bet is we will not see that, but I'm less certain now.
  • Barnesian said:

    Dennis Skinner is looking old. He always seemed immortal.

    I noticed that yesterday. He seems out of it. An old man sitting on a park bench watching the world go by.
    Ken Clarke too, to a less extent. The less is (even) less looked after and the appearance a bit more shabby. Time catches up with us all I suppose.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,344
    Cyclefree said:
    But he puts chocolate on his coffee....
  • GIN1138 said:

    Will the government accept 9th December if the amendment passes? (I think they should)
    Chuka just said that the government may adjust their date to a compromise

    So to the end, this parliament is arguing over 3 days

    Put it out of it's misery now
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,965
    IanB2 said:

    Bercow imposes 3 minute limit.

    Is that like the 2 minute challenge on Babestation?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509
    Cyclefree said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:

    I know Brexit and this on-off GE consumes all the attention on here but there are, gasp, a number of other interesting stories out there:-

    1. The Grenfell report, the criticism of the Fire Service and the resignation of the head of the Fire Service.
    2. Yet another inquiry into the inquiry into Operation Midland.
    3. IS taking over the camps where they were held prisoner, as a result of the Turkish fight with the Kurds, and what this means for the possibility of IS regrouping / mutating under another leader.
    4. The protests in Iraq and what this might lead to.
    5. The Dispatches programme on contacts between civil servants and US trade negotiators re medicine pricing.

    Just saying ......

    Also some interesting developments in the UK's relationship with Huawei (though admittedly this is from yesterday);

    https://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1335241
    It appears that the UK is a good place for China right now, on two counts at least. One is Arm confirming that some of its UK-developed architectures are outside the scope of current U.S. export restrictions. The second is news over the weekend suggesting the British Prime Minister is set to allow Huawei supply to non-contentious parts of the 5G network....
    The way our universities are allowing Chinese money to skew their principles of free speech and free inquiry. Another important issue.
    Indeed.
    And our ability to deflect Chinese influence will not be improved by leaving the EU.
  • Barnesian said:

    Dennis Skinner is looking old. He always seemed immortal.

    I noticed that yesterday. He seems out of it. An old man sitting on a park bench watching the world go by.
    Ken Clarke too, to a less extent. The less is (even) less looked after and the appearance a bit more shabby. Time catches up with us all I suppose.
    Ken's wife passed away a few years ago, I understand why he carried on last time. I hope he will continue to contribute to public life in the future.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509

    Cyclefree said:
    But he puts chocolate on his coffee....
    Some of the best people...
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,113
    SandyRentool said: "

    IanB2 said:
    "Bercow imposes 3 minute limit."

    "Is that like the 2 minute challenge on Babestation?"

    Only when Melanie Onn is speaking.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    edited October 2019
    kle4 said:

    IanB2 said:

    Professor John Curtice makes a prediction on @LBC:

    “I will make a prediction. There are going to be a record number of non-Conservative and non-Labour MPs as a result of this election.

    Interesting. My bet is we will not see that, but I'm less certain now.
    In Scotland he is likely right, with SNP and LDs the only parties looking at gains. Wales may be neutral, and NI can’t make any difference. So it hangs on the LibDem fortunes in England - where most commentators are debating between a small advance and a chance of a big one. Since the SNP had far fewer MPs back when the LibDems were in the 50s, the LDs don’t need to advance too far to fulfil his prediction, especially if a few Indy’s like Grieve also manage to hold on. With Greens and BXP as the wild cards.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,151

    GIN1138 said:

    Will the government accept 9th December if the amendment passes? (I think they should)
    Chuka just said that the government may adjust their date to a compromise

    So to the end, this parliament is arguing over 3 days

    Put it out of it's misery now
    Indeed Big G.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,509

    GIN1138 said:

    Will the government accept 9th December if the amendment passes? (I think they should)
    Chuka just said that the government may adjust their date to a compromise

    So to the end, this parliament is arguing over 3 days

    Put it out of it's misery now
    You talk as though all of this were happening independent of a rotten government and its rotten predecessor.
This discussion has been closed.