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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New polling finds fewer than 1 in 4 think that Brexit will hap

SystemSystem Posts: 11,686
edited October 2019 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » New polling finds fewer than 1 in 4 think that Brexit will happen by Jan 31st 2020

The latest extension of the Article 50 process is the third time this has happened and, as the latest YouGov polling shows, just 23% believe that we will be out on by the end of January next year.

Read the full story here


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Comments

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    First ... again!
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    MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,288
    Per graphic, 33% think we will be out by 31 Jan, not 23%.
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    The break down of the FTPA motion vote.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/ng-interactive/2019/oct/28/did-your-mp-vote-for-an-early-general-election

    The only real changes from last time are Johnson got more buy in from whipless Tories but lost the DUP. So little gain overall.
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Even if the Tories win an election, they’ll be finished
    Polly Toynbee"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/28/election-boris-johnson-tories-labour
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    FishingFishing Posts: 4,561
    "All the signs are that the Tories will lose seats in Scotland and to the LDs who are now polling at two to three times the level of GE2017. That means that they’ve got to offset the losses in gains from LAB. Where?"

    This thread seems to be a case of the wish being father to the thought, at least on current polling.

    For some reason it doesn't mention that Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition are polling about 15-20 points lower than they were at the last election, when they were still 60 seats behind the Conservatives. That, surely, is the salient feature of the political scene at the moment. It could evaporate during the campaign, or it could not reflect what will actually happen, but all analyses should surely start from this fact?
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited October 2019
    A very honest Owen Smith on Newsnight last night, at 16 mins 10 secs:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0009tvn/newsnight-28102019
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,573
    AndyJS said:

    "Even if the Tories win an election, they’ll be finished
    Polly Toynbee"

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/28/election-boris-johnson-tories-labour

    That piece has a certain timbre of the ring-necked parakeets of Primrose Hill about it. Or is it Clapham now?
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    rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 7,908
    Are there any vote share markets up for next election?
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    @GIN1138 said :

    "Can someone explain why there's such a ding dong over 9th Dec and 12th Dec cause I can't work it out?"

    ...........................................................................................

    Obviously they want a different festive ding dong merrily on high general election .... :smiley:
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    Lots of people on the previous thread conflating enfranchising 16 year olds with 16 year olds voting in the early election. In terms of wrecking amendments and/or pounds of flesh enfranchising 16 year olds from 1/5/20 would do. It would give councils and campaign groups time to advertise the new right and individuals to register for the ' locals ' in advance of 2020's full comprehensive canvas. As a Brucie Bonus it's highly unlikely any second referendum would be before 1/5/20 so it would de facto widen a second referendum franchise under cover of Boris' early election.

    If passed it would be adequate progressive cover for opposition parties delivering Boris' election. If defeated it provides the SNP and Lib Dems cover to pull the plug if they've got cold feet. Votes at 16 from next May delivers most of the oppositions bang for their buck while avoiding the smell of altering the franchise just weeks before a vote.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307

    Lots of people on the previous thread conflating enfranchising 16 year olds with 16 year olds voting in the early election. In terms of wrecking amendments and/or pounds of flesh enfranchising 16 year olds from 1/5/20 would do. It would give councils and campaign groups time to advertise the new right and individuals to register for the ' locals ' in advance of 2020's full comprehensive canvas. As a Brucie Bonus it's highly unlikely any second referendum would be before 1/5/20 so it would de facto widen a second referendum franchise under cover of Boris' early election.

    If passed it would be adequate progressive cover for opposition parties delivering Boris' election. If defeated it provides the SNP and Lib Dems cover to pull the plug if they've got cold feet. Votes at 16 from next May delivers most of the oppositions bang for their buck while avoiding the smell of altering the franchise just weeks before a vote.

    Whilst that is true and whilst I am in favour I still the that a little more measured consideration is appropriate.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    Not very bright, this Alex Wickham.

    Doesn’t he realise Polly won’t write her own headlines ?
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,307
    Damn the correction emblem isn’t working this morning. Hope it’s clear enough.
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,266
    Nigelb said:

    Not very bright, this Alex Wickham.

    Doesn’t he realise Polly won’t write her own headlines ?
    Anyone who thinks Her Pollyness is a galaxy brain is clearly intellectually challenged anyway.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Morning all.

    Does anyone have the timings for the HoC day?
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Nigelb said:

    Not very bright, this Alex Wickham.

    Doesn’t he realise Polly won’t write her own headlines ?
    Not very bright, this Nigelb.

    Doesn't he realise that there is at least a sporting chance that headlines for Polly's pieces will accurately summarise the contents of Polly's pieces, irrespective of who writes them?

    Or that he could read the piece in question and learn they this is in fact the case here?
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Come on, boys. Let's not start the day by being crotchety?
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Come on, boys. Let's not start the day by being crotchety?

    Struggling with the knotty issues of the day?
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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,266

    Come on, boys. Let's not start the day by being crotchety?

    A quavering attempt to bring us to order.

    Ah, my coat...
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    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    ydoethur said:

    Come on, boys. Let's not start the day by being crotchety?

    A quavering attempt to bring us to order.

    Ah, my coat...
    Don't try to minimise the issue, please.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,002
    ydoethur said:

    Come on, boys. Let's not start the day by being crotchety?

    A quavering attempt to bring us to order.

    Ah, my coat...
    The country needs knitting together, not being unravelled.
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    Yellow_SubmarineYellow_Submarine Posts: 647
    edited October 2019

    Morning all.

    Does anyone have the timings for the HoC day?

    The Government Business motion and programme are proposing to take all Commons stages of the early election bill today in a 6 hour block replacing all previous business. But we won't know exactly when it will start until we know what if any statements and UQs there are. And the 6 hour timetable is reliant on the programme passing.

    Watching the statement last night there seemed genuine and wide spread unease on the Tory backbenches about the Government pulling the WAIB and from Labour MPs who'd voted for 2nd Reading. We'll have to see if what Boris has promised the SNP/LDs to get their support doesn't repel enough Tories to make it pointless.

    The fact the Government isn't publishing the bill till this morning, the same day it will clear the Commons, was also winding up many MPs.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    Morning all.

    Does anyone have the timings for the HoC day?

    The Government Business motion and programme are proposing to take all Commons stages of the early election bill today in a 6 hour block replacing all previous business. But we won't know exactly when it will start until we know what if any statements and UQs there are. And the 6 hour timetable is reliant on the programme passing.

    Watching the statement last night there seemed genuine and wide spread unease on the Tory backbenches about the Government pulling the WAIB and from Labour MPs who'd voted for 2nd Reading. We'll have to see if what Boris has promised the SNP/LDs to get their support doesn't repel enough Tories to make it pointless.
    Do we know if they've actually got agreement from LD and SNP on what they're proposing or are they still just fucking around?
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    ydoethur said:

    Come on, boys. Let's not start the day by being crotchety?

    A quavering attempt to bring us to order.

    Ah, my coat...
    The country needs knitting together, not being unravelled.
    That view of the world really needles me.
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    Come on, boys. Let's not start the day by being crotchety?

    Struggling with the knotty issues of the day?
    Quite right. PB has always been a rich tapestry.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,002

    Morning all.

    Does anyone have the timings for the HoC day?

    The Government Business motion and programme are proposing to take all Commons stages of the early election bill today in a 6 hour block replacing all previous business. But we won't know exactly when it will start until we know what if any statements and UQs there are. And the 6 hour timetable is reliant on the programme passing.

    Watching the statement last night there seemed genuine and wide spread unease on the Tory backbenches about the Government pulling the WAIB and from Labour MPs who'd voted for 2nd Reading. We'll have to see if what Boris has promised the SNP/LDs to get their support doesn't repel enough Tories to make it pointless.
    Do we know if they've actually got agreement from LD and SNP on what they're proposing or are they still just fucking around?
    I didn't think that, at this moment, Carrie had any worries about him!
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Come on, boys. Let's not start the day by being crotchety?

    Struggling with the knotty issues of the day?
    I'd just rather we were all a bit more woolly
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    Nigelb said:
    Better a Frenchman than Nigel Owens.

    Honestly if the world cup final was between France and Wales I'd be cheering for France.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688

    Morning all.

    Does anyone have the timings for the HoC day?

    The Government Business motion and programme are proposing to take all Commons stages of the early election bill today in a 6 hour block replacing all previous business. But we won't know exactly when it will start until we know what if any statements and UQs there are. And the 6 hour timetable is reliant on the programme passing.

    Watching the statement last night there seemed genuine and wide spread unease on the Tory backbenches about the Government pulling the WAIB and from Labour MPs who'd voted for 2nd Reading. We'll have to see if what Boris has promised the SNP/LDs to get their support doesn't repel enough Tories to make it pointless.

    The fact the Government isn't publishing the bill till this morning, the same day it will clear the Commons, was also winding up many MPs.
    Thanks for this.

    I think the reason they're not publishing it until this morning is because they may have reached an overnight deal with the LibDems & SNP?

    https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1188947840262955008?s=20
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    The moment Brexit stopped being inevitable on the 29th of March Brexit became at risk.

    We may end up praising the ERG as putting the national interest first.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,002
    This has come up on the website of the vU3a...... the virtual arm of the University of the Third Age.
    'something to ease Brexit depressions: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-50127713, an app to solve political disagreements'
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    Morning all.

    Does anyone have the timings for the HoC day?

    The Government Business motion and programme are proposing to take all Commons stages of the early election bill today in a 6 hour block replacing all previous business. But we won't know exactly when it will start until we know what if any statements and UQs there are. And the 6 hour timetable is reliant on the programme passing.

    Watching the statement last night there seemed genuine and wide spread unease on the Tory backbenches about the Government pulling the WAIB and from Labour MPs who'd voted for 2nd Reading. We'll have to see if what Boris has promised the SNP/LDs to get their support doesn't repel enough Tories to make it pointless.
    Do we know if they've actually got agreement from LD and SNP on what they're proposing or are they still just fucking around?
    The only hard facts we have ( the bill hasn't been published yet ) are Rees-Mogg's statements from the despatch box that ( a ) the bill sets the election for Thursday 12th. Which isn't what the SNP/LDs proposed. ( b ) a statement that the WAIB isn't coming back. Though it wasn't clear if that would hold if the early election bill failed.

    What was striking was that there wasn't a single LD MP in the chamber for the Rees-Mogg statement and only a handful of SNP MP with Wishart not Blackford leading.

    You could read that erie absence as either a sign they were all off negotiating behind the scenes or the wheels were coming off.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,697
    Nigelb said:

    Not very bright, this Alex Wickham.

    Doesn’t he realise Polly won’t write her own headlines ?
    Doesn't Nigelb read the article?

    Brexit and its aftermath might finish the Tories off, for their historic crime of leading the country astray with lies and false visions. In their victory may be their demise.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,367
    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,002

    Morning all.

    Does anyone have the timings for the HoC day?

    The Government Business motion and programme are proposing to take all Commons stages of the early election bill today in a 6 hour block replacing all previous business. But we won't know exactly when it will start until we know what if any statements and UQs there are. And the 6 hour timetable is reliant on the programme passing.

    Watching the statement last night there seemed genuine and wide spread unease on the Tory backbenches about the Government pulling the WAIB and from Labour MPs who'd voted for 2nd Reading. We'll have to see if what Boris has promised the SNP/LDs to get their support doesn't repel enough Tories to make it pointless.
    Do we know if they've actually got agreement from LD and SNP on what they're proposing or are they still just fucking around?
    The only hard facts we have ( the bill hasn't been published yet ) are Rees-Mogg's statements from the despatch box that ( a ) the bill sets the election for Thursday 12th. Which isn't what the SNP/LDs proposed. ( b ) a statement that the WAIB isn't coming back. Though it wasn't clear if that would hold if the early election bill failed.

    What was striking was that there wasn't a single LD MP in the chamber for the Rees-Mogg statement and only a handful of SNP MP with Wishart not Blackford leading.

    You could read that erie absence as either a sign they were all off negotiating behind the scenes or the wheels were coming off.
    Watching blood being taken from Boris so he could sign any agreement in his own blood? After all, you be pushed to trust him, even then.
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,697
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not very bright, this Alex Wickham.

    Doesn’t he realise Polly won’t write her own headlines ?
    Anyone who thinks Her Pollyness is a galaxy brain is clearly intellectually challenged anyway.
    Or hasn't checked the batteries in their irony meter.....
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,367
    FPT - Justine Greening has been on a journey, from right to left, similar to John Bercow.

    To be fair, she was once partnered up with Mark Clarke. That would mess anyone up.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    So if Tom N-D is correct, No 10 may be about to compromise with the LibDems / SNP for Dec 10th or 11th. It sounds petty but in a way it's quite smart by both sides.
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    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,898
    LOL, so those who has been on the news for weeks demanding an election, either abstained or voted against when one was proposed last night.

    Can’t Her Majesty take it into her own hands and dissolve this rotten and indecisive Parliament once and for all?
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,670

    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.

    I hope that is the outcome. BoZo would have no Confidence and Supply partner.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,987
    Good morning, everyone.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,670

    So if Tom N-D is correct, No 10 may be about to compromise with the LibDems / SNP for Dec 10th or 11th. It sounds petty but in a way it's quite smart by both sides.

    10 and 11 Dec are Champions League football nights.
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Sandpit said:

    LOL, so those who has been on the news for weeks demanding an election, either abstained or voted against when one was proposed last night.

    Can’t Her Majesty take it into her own hands and dissolve this rotten and indecisive Parliament once and for all?

    That's a bit simplistic. The FTPA route left open the option for Johnson to change the election date, to push through the WAB and, even, to No Deal us.

    The one-line bill becomes an Act and fixes the date, meaning No Deal comes off the table and the WAB falls.

    So whilst it's easy to lash-out on social media, it's also lazy thinking.

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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Foxy said:

    So if Tom N-D is correct, No 10 may be about to compromise with the LibDems / SNP for Dec 10th or 11th. It sounds petty but in a way it's quite smart by both sides.

    10 and 11 Dec are Champions League football nights.
    Irrelevant
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,002
    Sandpit said:

    LOL, so those who has been on the news for weeks demanding an election, either abstained or voted against when one was proposed last night.

    Can’t Her Majesty take it into her own hands and dissolve this rotten and indecisive Parliament once and for all?

    To be fair, Parliament is only representing the situation in the country. What's missing is a leader, or perhaps thinker who can point a way forward.
    Boris acts like one, although he's too dishonest and otherwise flawed. Countries casting about like Britain is at the moment need to have a care who they decide has emerged as leader; see Germany in the early 30's.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,367
    FPT - that leaked governance report from People’s Vote is absolutely hilarious.

    Made my day.
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    Well done to those who answered dont know.

    Extraordinary that people believe before Jan 31st is ahead of Jan 31st exactly. Surely even this wretched govt wouldnt try and do Brexit on new years day?

    Guess they did think April Fools Day and Haloween were suitable.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079

    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.

    That outcome would be great.
    To be honest I’m just in it for the ‘bantz’ right now.
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    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,670

    Foxy said:

    So if Tom N-D is correct, No 10 may be about to compromise with the LibDems / SNP for Dec 10th or 11th. It sounds petty but in a way it's quite smart by both sides.

    10 and 11 Dec are Champions League football nights.
    Irrelevant
    Liverpool and Chelsea play Tuesday evening, Liverpool and Man City on the Wednesday.

    Both are likely to affect evening turnout.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    Foxy said:

    So if Tom N-D is correct, No 10 may be about to compromise with the LibDems / SNP for Dec 10th or 11th. It sounds petty but in a way it's quite smart by both sides.

    10 and 11 Dec are Champions League football nights.
    As a Newcastle fan this does not effect me. B)
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    Sandpit said:

    LOL, so those who has been on the news for weeks demanding an election, either abstained or voted against when one was proposed last night.

    Can’t Her Majesty take it into her own hands and dissolve this rotten and indecisive Parliament once and for all?

    Lol, so those who have campaigned for years demanding Brexit, voted against Mays withdrawal agreement. Why didnt the Queen take it into her own hands and cancel Brexit once and for all?
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    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.

    I think the thing that makes your senario credible is that Boris now has a deal but an unpassed one. The persistent theme of post referendum polling and election is that enough people still want Brexit to make it happen but they don't want X Brexit. And now Boris has an X to sell. He's not fighting on having delivered it or asking for a mandate to negotiate an abstract. He''s opened Schrodinger's box and can see the state of the cat. The pattern to date is the electorate still wants the box, still wants it to be opened but never likes what it sees when it is opened.

    In effect 60% of the electorate is *very* open to three little words.

    " Don't trust him "

    " Not his Brexit "

    If those arguments land then it comes down to whether that 60% can organise itself tactically to block his majority.

    That's not a prediction - who makes those these days - just an observation your senario is highly credible and currently underpriced imho.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,367

    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.

    That outcome would be great.
    To be honest I’m just in it for the ‘bantz’ right now.
    One very credible outcome is Boris walks away with 290 seats and the LDs have 50 seats.
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    spire2spire2 Posts: 183
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    So if Tom N-D is correct, No 10 may be about to compromise with the LibDems / SNP for Dec 10th or 11th. It sounds petty but in a way it's quite smart by both sides.

    10 and 11 Dec are Champions League football nights.
    Irrelevant
    Liverpool and Chelsea play Tuesday evening, Liverpool and Man City on the Wednesday.

    Both are likely to affect evening turnout.
    tough couple of days for liverpool
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    MysticroseMysticrose Posts: 4,688
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    So if Tom N-D is correct, No 10 may be about to compromise with the LibDems / SNP for Dec 10th or 11th. It sounds petty but in a way it's quite smart by both sides.

    10 and 11 Dec are Champions League football nights.
    Irrelevant
    Liverpool and Chelsea play Tuesday evening, Liverpool and Man City on the Wednesday.

    Both are likely to affect evening turnout.
    I'm assuming this is a joke post. A couple of football matches are not going to alter a General Election. And Liverpool, Tottenham and ManCity are all playing away. So only Chelski are at home.

    Totally irrelevant.
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    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.

    We are a divided country, nothing reflects that better than parliaments gridlock. It may not only continue, but could get worse, there may not even be the majority for extension after an election - that could lead to no deal if there really is no majority for anything.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Nigelb said:

    Not very bright, this Alex Wickham.

    Doesn’t he realise Polly won’t write her own headlines ?
    Doesn't Nigelb read the article?

    Brexit and its aftermath might finish the Tories off, for their historic crime of leading the country astray with lies and false visions. In their victory may be their demise.
    But who woud bother reading such portentous twaddle?
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    So if Tom N-D is correct, No 10 may be about to compromise with the LibDems / SNP for Dec 10th or 11th. It sounds petty but in a way it's quite smart by both sides.

    10 and 11 Dec are Champions League football nights.
    Irrelevant
    Liverpool and Chelsea play Tuesday evening, Liverpool and Man City on the Wednesday.

    Both are likely to affect evening turnout.
    I'm assuming this is a joke post. A couple of football matches are not going to alter a General Election. And Liverpool, Tottenham and ManCity are all playing away. So only Chelski are at home.

    Totally irrelevant.
    Football is on the telly now so voters can watch the games even without buying a match ticket and flying to a stadium in darkest Europe. (Liverpool and Chelsea play Tuesday evening, Spurs and Man City on the Wednesday.)
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    The election is a big gamble for the Tories, but one they should take.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631

    Nigelb said:

    Not very bright, this Alex Wickham.

    Doesn’t he realise Polly won’t write her own headlines ?
    Doesn't Nigelb read the article?

    Brexit and its aftermath might finish the Tories off, for their historic crime of leading the country astray with lies and false visions. In their victory may be their demise.
    Indeed. Don’t you understand the word “might” ?
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    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    So if Tom N-D is correct, No 10 may be about to compromise with the LibDems / SNP for Dec 10th or 11th. It sounds petty but in a way it's quite smart by both sides.

    10 and 11 Dec are Champions League football nights.
    Irrelevant
    Liverpool and Chelsea play Tuesday evening, Liverpool and Man City on the Wednesday.

    Both are likely to affect evening turnout.
    Busy week for Liverpool!
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,002

    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.

    We are a divided country, nothing reflects that better than parliaments gridlock. It may not only continue, but could get worse, there may not even be the majority for extension after an election - that could lead to no deal if there really is no majority for anything.
    I'm not in favour of unelected assemblies making decisions, but it might be an idea to let the House of Lords have an 'advisory' go at suggesting a way forward.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    In other Boris related news...
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-50184281
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    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.

    We are a divided country, nothing reflects that better than parliaments gridlock. It may not only continue, but could get worse, there may not even be the majority for extension after an election - that could lead to no deal if there really is no majority for anything.
    I'm not in favour of unelected assemblies making decisions, but it might be an idea to let the House of Lords have an 'advisory' go at suggesting a way forward.
    Rory Stewart suggested a citizens assembly. I would far prefer that.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,367
    Pulpstar said:

    The election is a big gamble for the Tories, but one they should take.

    They don’t have a choice anymore.

    One big plus is that Cummings knows more about campaign governance and data than virtually anyone else.

    Provided he’s restrained from venting expletives in the headlines every day, that’s a huge advantage.
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    SquareRootSquareRoot Posts: 7,095
    edited October 2019
    Polly seems even more bonkers than usual. Writing her column from her Umbrian?? holiday home >?
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,367

    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.

    We are a divided country, nothing reflects that better than parliaments gridlock. It may not only continue, but could get worse, there may not even be the majority for extension after an election - that could lead to no deal if there really is no majority for anything.
    This is my fear too.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    One party it really isn't a gamble for is the SNP.

    Heads Corbyn needs them for confidence and supply
    Tails the Tories win and a big boost for indyref2.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,631
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Not very bright, this Alex Wickham.

    Doesn’t he realise Polly won’t write her own headlines ?
    Anyone who thinks Her Pollyness is a galaxy brain is clearly intellectually challenged anyway.
    I took it as a reference to the aerated sugary filling of the well known snack bar.
    But perhaps I’m giving Mr. Wickham too much credit.

  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,670

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    So if Tom N-D is correct, No 10 may be about to compromise with the LibDems / SNP for Dec 10th or 11th. It sounds petty but in a way it's quite smart by both sides.

    10 and 11 Dec are Champions League football nights.
    Irrelevant
    Liverpool and Chelsea play Tuesday evening, Liverpool and Man City on the Wednesday.

    Both are likely to affect evening turnout.
    I'm assuming this is a joke post. A couple of football matches are not going to alter a General Election. And Liverpool, Tottenham and ManCity are all playing away. So only Chelski are at home.

    Totally irrelevant.
    Just pointing out another event likely to suppress evening turnout. Have we ever had an election on a night with significant football? Those betting on turnout might want to factor it in. A lot of people care more for football than politics.

    Celtic, Arsenal, wolves and Man United all play on Thursday Dec 12th night.

    Mon 9th has West Ham vs Arsenal, but that is an easier fixture to move.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    Pulpstar said:

    The election is a big gamble for the Tories, but one they should take.

    They don’t have a choice anymore.

    One big plus is that Cummings knows more about campaign governance and data than virtually anyone else.

    Provided he’s restrained from venting expletives in the headlines every day, that’s a huge advantage.
    The most important thing Cummings knows is the EC is a busted flush who can't do anything about breaking the rules. He is not alone in knowing that.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,367

    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.

    I think the thing that makes your senario credible is that Boris now has a deal but an unpassed one. The persistent theme of post referendum polling and election is that enough people still want Brexit to make it happen but they don't want X Brexit. And now Boris has an X to sell. He's not fighting on having delivered it or asking for a mandate to negotiate an abstract. He''s opened Schrodinger's box and can see the state of the cat. The pattern to date is the electorate still wants the box, still wants it to be opened but never likes what it sees when it is opened.

    In effect 60% of the electorate is *very* open to three little words.

    " Don't trust him "

    " Not his Brexit "

    If those arguments land then it comes down to whether that 60% can organise itself tactically to block his majority.

    That's not a prediction - who makes those these days - just an observation your senario is highly credible and currently underpriced imho.
    Conversely, a plurality of the electorate want Brexit resolved and his Deal is more popular than May’s Deal and offers more potential outcomes, thus broadening its support coalition.
  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    The election is a big gamble for the Tories, but one they should take.

    They don’t have a choice anymore.

    One big plus is that Cummings knows more about campaign governance and data than virtually anyone else.

    Provided he’s restrained from venting expletives in the headlines every day, that’s a huge advantage.
    I just live in fear and hope that surely the campaign can't be as badly mismanaged as last time.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    One party it really isn't a gamble for is the SNP.

    Heads Corbyn needs them for confidence and supply
    Tails the Tories win and a big boost for indyref2.

    SNP say they will consider the 12th, Chuka Umana says he won't.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,367

    Pulpstar said:

    The election is a big gamble for the Tories, but one they should take.

    They don’t have a choice anymore.

    One big plus is that Cummings knows more about campaign governance and data than virtually anyone else.

    Provided he’s restrained from venting expletives in the headlines every day, that’s a huge advantage.
    I just live in fear and hope that surely the campaign can't be as badly mismanaged as last time.
    It was one of the worst month’s of my life.

    Every day it was worse, more cringeworthy and painful.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    So if Tom N-D is correct, No 10 may be about to compromise with the LibDems / SNP for Dec 10th or 11th. It sounds petty but in a way it's quite smart by both sides.

    10 and 11 Dec are Champions League football nights.
    Irrelevant
    Liverpool and Chelsea play Tuesday evening, Liverpool and Man City on the Wednesday.

    Both are likely to affect evening turnout.
    I'm assuming this is a joke post. A couple of football matches are not going to alter a General Election. And Liverpool, Tottenham and ManCity are all playing away. So only Chelski are at home.

    Totally irrelevant.
    Just pointing out another event likely to suppress evening turnout. Have we ever had an election on a night with significant football? Those betting on turnout might want to factor it in. A lot of people care more for football than politics.

    Celtic, Arsenal, wolves and Man United all play on Thursday Dec 12th night.

    Mon 9th has West Ham vs Arsenal, but that is an easier fixture to move.
    Does anyone care for the Europa League though?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,125

    Pulpstar said:

    The election is a big gamble for the Tories, but one they should take.

    They don’t have a choice anymore.

    One big plus is that Cummings knows more about campaign governance and data than virtually anyone else.

    Provided he’s restrained from venting expletives in the headlines every day, that’s a huge advantage.
    He's supposeed to be off at the end of the month for an op. Wonder if that is going to be put on hold for an election campaign?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,002

    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.

    We are a divided country, nothing reflects that better than parliaments gridlock. It may not only continue, but could get worse, there may not even be the majority for extension after an election - that could lead to no deal if there really is no majority for anything.
    I'm not in favour of unelected assemblies making decisions, but it might be an idea to let the House of Lords have an 'advisory' go at suggesting a way forward.
    Rory Stewart suggested a citizens assembly. I would far prefer that.
    Understand what you mean, but the HoL is there. Need to set up the mechanism for selecting CA's, as well as actually doing so.
    However, if 'we' decide to take Brexit off the table for 6-12 months, like you I'd go for some form of citizens assembly.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Chuka: it can't be the 12th, but 10th or 11th are possible.
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143

    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.

    We are a divided country, nothing reflects that better than parliaments gridlock. It may not only continue, but could get worse, there may not even be the majority for extension after an election - that could lead to no deal if there really is no majority for anything.
    If Conservatives+DUP don't have a majority then it is very likely that there is a majority for an extension.

    The risk comes if Conservative+DUP have a majority against extension, thus emboldening the ERG to join the DUP to vote against the deal in favour of no deal.

    However, that behaviour might provoke different Conservative MPs into rebelling for an extension in order to save the deal.
  • Options

    Pulpstar said:

    The election is a big gamble for the Tories, but one they should take.

    They don’t have a choice anymore.

    One big plus is that Cummings knows more about campaign governance and data than virtually anyone else.

    Provided he’s restrained from venting expletives in the headlines every day, that’s a huge advantage.
    I just live in fear and hope that surely the campaign can't be as badly mismanaged as last time.
    It was one of the worst month’s of my life.

    Every day it was worse, more cringeworthy and painful.
    It was an unmitigated disaster. "Cringeworthy" is very appropriate.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,367
    AndyJS said:

    Chuka: it can't be the 12th, but 10th or 11th are possible.

    12th is Chuka’s Christmas party.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    One party it really isn't a gamble for is the SNP.

    Heads Corbyn needs them for confidence and supply
    Tails the Tories win and a big boost for indyref2.

    SNP say they will consider the 12th, Chuka Umana says he won't.
    299 votes from last night plus SNP is enough, even without MacNeill ?
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,367

    Pulpstar said:

    The election is a big gamble for the Tories, but one they should take.

    They don’t have a choice anymore.

    One big plus is that Cummings knows more about campaign governance and data than virtually anyone else.

    Provided he’s restrained from venting expletives in the headlines every day, that’s a huge advantage.
    He's supposeed to be off at the end of the month for an op. Wonder if that is going to be put on hold for an election campaign?
    I don’t know what the op is but I’d hope his health would come first.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929

    Pulpstar said:

    The election is a big gamble for the Tories, but one they should take.

    They don’t have a choice anymore.

    One big plus is that Cummings knows more about campaign governance and data than virtually anyone else.

    Provided he’s restrained from venting expletives in the headlines every day, that’s a huge advantage.
    I just live in fear and hope that surely the campaign can't be as badly mismanaged as last time.
    It was one of the worst month’s of my life.

    Every day it was worse, more cringeworthy and painful.
    May would struggle to sell ice cream in the desert. Johnson should leave social care alone or just have some waffle about examining and looking to implement Dilnot.
    I assume the Tory manifesto with more police, schools and hospitals is ready and waiting.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,983

    ydoethur said:

    Come on, boys. Let's not start the day by being crotchety?

    A quavering attempt to bring us to order.

    Ah, my coat...
    The country needs knitting together, not being unravelled.
    A stitch in time
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    edited October 2019
    Pulpstar said:

    One party it really isn't a gamble for is the SNP.

    Heads Corbyn needs them for confidence and supply
    Tails the Tories win and a big boost for indyref2.

    Just in time for @HYUFD ‘s invasion of Scotland.
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,983

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    So if Tom N-D is correct, No 10 may be about to compromise with the LibDems / SNP for Dec 10th or 11th. It sounds petty but in a way it's quite smart by both sides.

    10 and 11 Dec are Champions League football nights.
    Irrelevant
    Liverpool and Chelsea play Tuesday evening, Liverpool and Man City on the Wednesday.

    Both are likely to affect evening turnout.
    I'm assuming this is a joke post. A couple of football matches are not going to alter a General Election. And Liverpool, Tottenham and ManCity are all playing away. So only Chelski are at home.

    Totally irrelevant.
    Just pointing out another event likely to suppress evening turnout. Have we ever had an election on a night with significant football? Those betting on turnout might want to factor it in. A lot of people care more for football than politics.

    Celtic, Arsenal, wolves and Man United all play on Thursday Dec 12th night.

    Mon 9th has West Ham vs Arsenal, but that is an easier fixture to move.
    Does anyone care for the Europa League though?
    People who like real competitive football and not pampered jessie boys who need protected by rigged system till the quarter finals.
  • Options

    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.

    We are a divided country, nothing reflects that better than parliaments gridlock. It may not only continue, but could get worse, there may not even be the majority for extension after an election - that could lead to no deal if there really is no majority for anything.
    If Conservatives+DUP don't have a majority then it is very likely that there is a majority for an extension.

    The risk comes if Conservative+DUP have a majority against extension, thus emboldening the ERG to join the DUP to vote against the deal in favour of no deal.

    However, that behaviour might provoke different Conservative MPs into rebelling for an extension in order to save the deal.
    The DUP may well vote against everything anyone suggests including extension. There may be MPs willing to vote for an extension but not through taking control of the order paper. I think there is something like a 10 seat window where there could literally be no support for anything, hopefully they would realise that quickly and have a January election (another reason to go for Dec 9 instead of Dec 12 is it gives us more chance of a second election before the deadline if needed).

  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,670
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The election is a big gamble for the Tories, but one they should take.

    They don’t have a choice anymore.

    One big plus is that Cummings knows more about campaign governance and data than virtually anyone else.

    Provided he’s restrained from venting expletives in the headlines every day, that’s a huge advantage.
    I just live in fear and hope that surely the campaign can't be as badly mismanaged as last time.
    It was one of the worst month’s of my life.

    Every day it was worse, more cringeworthy and painful.
    May would struggle to sell ice cream in the desert. Johnson should leave social care alone or just have some waffle about examining and looking to implement Dilnot.
    I assume the Tory manifesto with more police, schools and hospitals is ready and waiting.
    I'm not sure that strategy was working. As well as highlighting the damage done in those fields over the last decade, they are always outbid by other parties that are trusted more on those areas.

    BoZo also has to defend his crap deal, and there will be plenty of forensic exposure of issues, such as last nights Dispatches programme. He is not good at detail and policy. Waffle and Bluster will not do.

  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,983
    Has Boris selected the Ditch he will die in yet or is he putting it off till the last minute.
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    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,079
    malcolmg said:

    Has Boris selected the Ditch he will die in yet or is he putting it off till the last minute.

    I think the ditch is in Sunderland Central.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,929
    Here's a wild question.

    Could a section 30 deal ever be cooked up between SNP and the Tories ?
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    The election is a big gamble for the Tories, but one they should take.

    They don’t have a choice anymore.

    One big plus is that Cummings knows more about campaign governance and data than virtually anyone else.

    Provided he’s restrained from venting expletives in the headlines every day, that’s a huge advantage.
    I just live in fear and hope that surely the campaign can't be as badly mismanaged as last time.
    It was one of the worst month’s of my life.

    Every day it was worse, more cringeworthy and painful.
    May would struggle to sell ice cream in the desert. Johnson should leave social care alone or just have some waffle about examining and looking to implement Dilnot.
    I assume the Tory manifesto with more police, schools and hospitals is ready and waiting.
    I'm not sure that strategy was working. As well as highlighting the damage done in those fields over the last decade, they are always outbid by other parties that are trusted more on those areas.

    BoZo also has to defend his crap deal, and there will be plenty of forensic exposure of issues, such as last nights Dispatches programme. He is not good at detail and policy. Waffle and Bluster will not do.

    Fortunately he can rely on his high calibre cabinet to convince the nation on the details, surely they will be impressed by the likes of Raab, Patel, Schapps, McVey and Rees Mogg?
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    I have a bad feeling about an early election in December.

    I think the electorate will conspire to deprive Boris of a majority and we’ll have a even more hung Parliament that the one we currently have.

    I really hope I’m wrong.

    We are a divided country, nothing reflects that better than parliaments gridlock. It may not only continue, but could get worse, there may not even be the majority for extension after an election - that could lead to no deal if there really is no majority for anything.
    I'm not in favour of unelected assemblies making decisions, but it might be an idea to let the House of Lords have an 'advisory' go at suggesting a way forward.
    Rory Stewart suggested a citizens assembly. I would far prefer that.
    We couldn't all assemble, so we would have to delegate to a workable number of representatives, say in the mid-600s, and send them to a suitable venue in, let's say, central London to debate and vote on the issues. Good plan.
  • Options
    OblitusSumMeOblitusSumMe Posts: 9,143
    If Labour lose net seats do we think that Corbyn steps down? I presume he'd stick around as caretaker leader while a leadership contest takes place (to keep Watson away from the job). Would the leadership election take about six months?
This discussion has been closed.