politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Some in the Shadow Cabinet want an early election but Corbyn,
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Will be more than 48%.MarqueeMark said:
Don't forget the 48% who are going to get Brexit depression when it happens....rural_voter said:
Apparently >30% of Brits get winter depression. Does that mainly mean a) they're less motivated to vote or b) they're more likely to support the Monster Raving Loony Party?Anabobazina said:An election on 5 Dec will be as popular as a fart at a cocktail party. It’s going to be next year isn’t it?
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There seems to be some genuine uncertainty about what exactly the extra administrative burden for GB-NI trade would be under the Boris deal. From the Guardian live blog:
Seamus Leheny from the Freight Transport Association called on the government to explain why the exit declarations [for NI to GB trade] were part of the Brexit deal, as he claimed the EU had not insisted on the measure. Leheny said transport companies in Northern Ireland would now face an added administration cost.
"This is another layer of administration and red tape which we were promised Brexit would remove. One of the reasons for Brexit was because of red tape, but all we are seeing for the last two and half years is the likelihood of more and more red tape.
I think everyone was caught off guard by this because the EU weren’t pressing for this to be implemented.
When myself and other business groups met the EU about a year and a half ago, it was one of the things the EU said OK, yes we can row back on, as part of ensuring frictionless trade from NI to GB.
So, it’s something the UK government has decided to implement, if it does. What it is, is an unwelcome administration burden on transport providers."
This is the kind of thing which really should be pinned down before MPs vote on the deal.0 -
Remainers are thinking what bit of May's deal was too extreme come back with something softer the PM didn't get.Gabs2 said:
The forcing him to extend only worked when he didn't have a deal. Now he has pulled the rabbit out the hat, Leavers are thinking "What else more is he supposed to do? He has got a deal against all odds, but MPs are STILL sabotaging him..."noneoftheabove said:0 -
Makes sense. Its taking too much piss. Brexit looking shaky, has anyone who intimated they would back the deal changed their tune since publication of the bill? Thinking of labour and ex tories.AlastairMeeks said:If he's right, the programme motion fails quite clearly:
https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/11866798165583953920 -
Just for the record - I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg War Trials available on the Internet - something which took me two years to complete.
I have twice visited Dachau and Belsen - in 1996 & 2017 - and have also been to Thereisenstadt and Mauthausen. Nobody can fail to be deeply moved by all those sites - and to be appalled at the depravity of what occurred there.
I have not been a Labour Party member for 23 years , but two years ago I did join the Jewish Labour Movement as an act of solidarity in support of those seeking to combat anti-semitism. As a result, I am not inclined to accept lectures on the subject from others.0 -
The 1979-97 Tory government spent twenty years removing workers' rights, sometimes it was popular with voters at large, sometimes unpopular, but they had no problem doing it. They can always spin it as creating jobs or protecting consumers, or even giving people more choice. Plus bear in mind that a lot of voters, especially a lot of Tory voters, aren't actually workers. Basically, any worker who is looking to the voters to protect their rights is barking up the wrong tree.Gabs2 said:
That's ridiculous. If anything, a foolish attempt to change the law by removing worker rights from British people would cause a big Labour majority. That would end up with worker protections being strengthened.kinabalu said:
It does. Much safer. Trust me.Gabs2 said:No, it doesn't. It can be enshrined in UK law.
On a more general point, a lot of people on here think that everything should be up for political choice at the whim of a government that has maybe 35% of the vote. This is patently nonsense. People should have rights that can only be removed via a much higher threshold of consent. For me the EU was a very useful mechanism for protecting those rights. In its absence I think we should be looking to adopt a written constitution and super majority requirements for challenging fundamental rights including rights at work.2 -
Another generous assumption.numbertwelve said:
That’s assuming the 9 labour rebels stay at 9.AlastairMeeks said:If he's right, the programme motion fails quite clearly:
https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/11866798165583953920 -
The fact that Remainers May's Deal was denounced as far too soft!!Recidivist said:
Remainers are thinking what bit of May's deal was too extreme come back with something softer the PM didn't get.Gabs2 said:
The forcing him to extend only worked when he didn't have a deal. Now he has pulled the rabbit out the hat, Leavers are thinking "What else more is he supposed to do? He has got a deal against all odds, but MPs are STILL sabotaging him..."noneoftheabove said:
What part of rejecting a Remainers deal made you think a true Leaver was going to bring back something softer?
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I wonder what Hammond might do . He wants the whip back but hates Johnson .0
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A couple of whipless Tories have said Cummings needs to back down a bit, and Redwood is a bit grumpy.kle4 said:Makes sense. Its taking too much piss. Brexit looking shaky, has anyone who intimated they would back the deal changed their tune since publication of the bill? Thinking of labour and ex tories.
Don't think any of the Lab leavers who have said they'd vote for have backed down, although there are probably 5 or 6 undeclared in that group that could have changed their minds without saying anything in public.
The numbers still seem pretty solid, tbh.0 -
They don't care...Richard_Nabavi said:This is the kind of thing which really should be pinned down before MPs vote on the deal.
https://twitter.com/johnharris1969/status/11866280126594293880 -
Few people in society happily associate with Hitler the way they do Lenin and trotsky. That the latter two get their nasty parts ignored too often doesnt change that they are not as outageous as figures to be compared to as HitlerNoo said:
Please don't take this as general support, because I don't like what you're up to with all this Hitler stuff, but on this point you're spot on. This place is crawling with hypocrisy.justin124 said:
Would you like to see the Moderators intervene when a comment is next made here associating Corbyn or McDonnell with Lenin and Trosky? There is much humbug and hypocrisy around.Big_G_NorthWales said:
No comment.justin124 said:
Big G,Big_G_NorthWales said:
Justin.justin124 said:
With respect, I have not accused anyone of being a Nazi! People on here frequently compare Corbyn and Mcdonell to Lenin & Trotsky with very few objecting. I can assure you that were I an MP , I would happily get up in the Chamber and make the comparison with the Enabling Act.Nigelb said:
I agree with @bigjohnowls (which is unusual).justin124 said:
It wouldn't be the first time you have shown an inclination to support the Tories including in the Lobbies tonight.bigjohnowls said:
Sorry Justin I agree with the PB Toriesjustin124 said:I am sure that many MPs today will feel empathy for members of the Reichstag facing pressure to pass Hitler's Enabling Act in March 1933.
Time for Mods to rake action if you cant drop the Hitler shite.
There’s simply no justification for the Hitler stuff. And it’s completely counterproductive to your side of the argument.
With respect you do need to tone down the references to Hitler
You are causing offence and I hope the moderators will look into your posts if you continue to disregard the consensus on here
If I had accused you - or anyone else- of being a Nazi, I could understand the offence caused , but I have done no such thing.0 -
The program motion falls but the govt is pushing hard to get it through because it wants to be seen kicking and screaming into longer timetable0
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The one thing we will know for certain in an hour or so is each mps vote on the most important brexit decision since the referendum and the subject of thousands of GE leaflets0
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Some of the Labour Leave MPs like Nandy, De Piero and Snell are saying that they'll vote for the Second Reading tonight, but reserve the right to vote against the Third Reading if they don't get their amendments passed.kle4 said:
Makes sense. Its taking too much piss. Brexit looking shaky, has anyone who intimated they would back the deal changed their tune since publication of the bill? Thinking of labour and ex tories.AlastairMeeks said:If he's right, the programme motion fails quite clearly:
https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/11866798165583953920 -
There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.1 -
Supermajorities are clearly undemocratic. But you're right about the vulnerability of any right to a 35% majority government. The solution is probably electoral reform. But a written constitution with certain rights written in could be a goer. The stipulation I'd say is that the constitution is amendable through a referendum with an ordinary majority.OnlyLivingBoy said:
The 1979-97 Tory government spent twenty years removing workers' rights, sometimes it was popular with voters at large, sometimes unpopular, but they had no problem doing it. They can always spin it as creating jobs or protecting consumers, or even giving people more choice. Plus bear in mind that a lot of voters, especially a lot of Tory voters, aren't actually workers. Basically, any worker who is looking to the voters to protect their rights is barking up the wrong tree.Gabs2 said:
That's ridiculous. If anything, a foolish attempt to change the law by removing worker rights from British people would cause a big Labour majority. That would end up with worker protections being strengthened.kinabalu said:
It does. Much safer. Trust me.Gabs2 said:No, it doesn't. It can be enshrined in UK law.
On a more general point, a lot of people on here think that everything should be up for political choice at the whim of a government that has maybe 35% of the vote. This is patently nonsense. People should have rights that can only be removed via a much higher threshold of consent. For me the EU was a very useful mechanism for protecting those rights. In its absence I think we should be looking to adopt a written constitution and super majority requirements for challenging fundamental rights including rights at work.0 -
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.0 -
But interesting to know that Labour party supporters think Lenin and Trotsky were disgusting warped mass murderers who are beyond the pale.Richard_Nabavi said:
Why on earth could anyone possibly object to associating Corbyn or McDonnell with Lenin and Trotsky, since they themselves are very happy with such an association?justin124 said:Would you like to see the Moderators intervene when a comment is next made here associating Corbyn or McDonnell with Lenin and Trosky? There is much humbug and hypocrisy around.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/78174/jeremy-corbyn-called-complete-rehabilitation-leon
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/03/exclusive-john-mcdonnell-named-lenin-and-trotsky-his-biggest-influences-20060 -
I forget if they backed Letwin. Gov needs all those who rejected Letwin plus a few more - they have Letwin himself, maybe, but wouldnt be comfortable with the others.Danny565 said:
Some of the Labour Leave MPs like Nandy, De Piero and Snell are saying that they'll vote for the Second Reading tonight, but reserve the right to vote against the Third Reading if they don't get their amendments passed.kle4 said:
Makes sense. Its taking too much piss. Brexit looking shaky, has anyone who intimated they would back the deal changed their tune since publication of the bill? Thinking of labour and ex tories.AlastairMeeks said:If he's right, the programme motion fails quite clearly:
https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/11866798165583953920 -
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I'm just amazed people seem to have forgotten what happened literally SIX WEEKS AGO, the last time the government tried to "go for an election".Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.0 -
Persuading the DUP is a wasted effort now, its whether they have numbers to pass a bill without them, and win a VONC without them .Scott_P said:
I'd say possibly and no.0 -
Government make time for the SNP to table a VoNC.Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.
We've laughed at the plausibility of a 'Rebel Alliance' government earlier.0 -
Do we need to rearrange the words in that sentence to get at its meaning?Recidivist said:
Remainers are thinking what bit of May's deal was too extreme come back with something softer the PM didn't get.Gabs2 said:
The forcing him to extend only worked when he didn't have a deal. Now he has pulled the rabbit out the hat, Leavers are thinking "What else more is he supposed to do? He has got a deal against all odds, but MPs are STILL sabotaging him..."noneoftheabove said:0 -
Wait till they hear about Seumas Milne and Stalin...TOPPING said:
But interesting to know that Labour party supporters think Lenin and Trotsky were disgusting warped mass murderers who are beyond the pale.Richard_Nabavi said:
Why on earth could anyone possibly object to associating Corbyn or McDonnell with Lenin and Trotsky, since they themselves are very happy with such an association?justin124 said:Would you like to see the Moderators intervene when a comment is next made here associating Corbyn or McDonnell with Lenin and Trosky? There is much humbug and hypocrisy around.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/78174/jeremy-corbyn-called-complete-rehabilitation-leon
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/03/exclusive-john-mcdonnell-named-lenin-and-trotsky-his-biggest-influences-20060 -
But the Govt. and the SNP can sideline the FTPA with a simple majority..... LibDems probably up for it too.Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.0 -
You see it as unlikely the composition would be more favourable to remain and may be right, but for them better to take that gamble than let Brexit happen now.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.0 -
Well, only if the opposition cooperates.MarqueeMark said:
Can the Govt. still pull during Committee stage and go for an election?Casino_Royale said:Got a horrible feeling we might get caught in a doom loop here.
Passes at 2nd reading (House agrees on Brexit in principle), CU is added to Bill at Committee stage (making it basically May’s Deal again, with a permanent backstop) leading to it failing at 3rd reading as the ERG pull support.
Rinse and re-fucking-peat.
Or Boris has to risk engineering a VoNC which might not time out with an election the way he’d like it to, particularly now because the DUP wouldn’t necessarily move to stop Corbyn.0 -
Seriously?SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.
The pro-Johnson papers will be hailing him as a national hero for getting Brexit done and the euphoria will mean the "domestic agenda" won't get a hearing and your man Boris will win a landslide.
Nice try.0 -
Those three didn't vote for Letwin.kle4 said:
I forget if they backed Letwin. Gov needs all those who rejected Letwin plus a few more - they have Letwin himself, maybe, but wouldnt be comfortable with the others.Danny565 said:
Some of the Labour Leave MPs like Nandy, De Piero and Snell are saying that they'll vote for the Second Reading tonight, but reserve the right to vote against the Third Reading if they don't get their amendments passed.kle4 said:
Makes sense. Its taking too much piss. Brexit looking shaky, has anyone who intimated they would back the deal changed their tune since publication of the bill? Thinking of labour and ex tories.AlastairMeeks said:If he's right, the programme motion fails quite clearly:
https://twitter.com/jonworth/status/1186679816558395392
The Second Reading tonight is guaranteed to pass because there'll be quite a few Labour MPs who vote for it because it doesn't tie their hands (it'll be their "virtue-signalling" vote to constituents that they'll claim proves they were willing, in principle, to vote for Brexit). But I don't think the programme motion will get (m)any more Labour votes than Letwin did, meaning the Oct 31st deadline is kaput.0 -
The SNP and Lib Dem’s would quite happily pick at Labour’s corpse right now.MarqueeMark said:
But the Govt. and the SNP can sideline the FTPA with a simple majority..... LibDems probably up for it too.Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.0 -
I don’t think anyone is questioning your knowledge of or seeking to lecture you on the Nazi Genocide. What many object to is the constant analogy of that topic to current events, which they consider to be inappropriate and upsetting. There are other historical parallels out there if you look hard enough.justin124 said:Just for the record - I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg War Trials available on the Internet - something which took me two years to complete.
I have twice visited Dachau and Belsen - in 1996 & 2017 - and have also been to Thereisenstadt and Mauthausen. Nobody can fail to be deeply moved by all those sites - and to be appalled at the depravity of what occurred there.
I have not been a Labour Party member for 23 years , but two years ago I did join the Jewish Labour Movement as an act of solidarity in support of those seeking to combat anti-semitism. As a result, I am not inclined to accept lectures on the subject from others.0 -
That is totally fair enough.justin124 said:Just for the record - I have read the entire transcripts of the Nuremburg War Trials available on the Internet - something which took me two years to complete.
I have twice visited Dachau and Belsen - in 1996 & 2017 - and have also been to Thereisenstadt and Mauthausen. Nobody can fail to be deeply moved by all those sites - and to be appalled at the depravity of what occurred there.
I have not been a Labour Party member for 23 years , but two years ago I did join the Jewish Labour Movement as an act of solidarity in support of those seeking to combat anti-semitism. As a result, I am not inclined to accept lectures on the subject from others.
But you can see how the references might cause offence and certainly don't lend weight to your arguments.
And just out of interest not being snarky why the f&£k did you read the Nuremberg trials transcripts?0 -
What are the opposition going to say if there is no "no deal" excuse anymore?Danny565 said:
I'm just amazed people seem to have forgotten what happened literally SIX WEEKS AGO, the last time the government tried to "go for an election".Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.0 -
^^^blueblue said:
Very well said!Richard_Nabavi said:
Why on earth could anyone possibly object to associating Corbyn or McDonnell with Lenin and Trotsky, since they themselves are very happy with such an association?justin124 said:Would you like to see the Moderators intervene when a comment is next made here associating Corbyn or McDonnell with Lenin and Trosky? There is much humbug and hypocrisy around.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/78174/jeremy-corbyn-called-complete-rehabilitation-leon
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/03/exclusive-john-mcdonnell-named-lenin-and-trotsky-his-biggest-influences-20060 -
There’s this thing called the House of Lords.MarqueeMark said:
But the Govt. and the SNP can sideline the FTPA with a simple majority..... LibDems probably up for it too.Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.0 -
nunuone said:
DUP already said they wonr vote for thatnico67 said:Interesting name appears on the customs union amendment.
Stewart Hosie of the SNP. If the SNP back this aswell as the rest of the opposition and the DUP it has a chance of getting through .
The Tory MPs against this deal could also back this . Many Labour Leave MPs want a CU.
It gives them a chance to say we’re trying to get the best deal for our constituents.
Noooo (no). No can do.
I can’t vote for that.0 -
Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...0 -
And the Lords?MarqueeMark said:
But the Govt. and the SNP can sideline the FTPA with a simple majority..... LibDems probably up for it too.Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.0 -
Lib Dems aren't in favour of an election right now.ozymandias said:
The SNP and Lib Dem’s would quite happily pick at Labour’s corpse right now.MarqueeMark said:
But the Govt. and the SNP can sideline the FTPA with a simple majority..... LibDems probably up for it too.Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.0 -
Never heard of it. Nor have the government which is why it will be no problem.AlastairMeeks said:
There’s this thing called the House of Lords.MarqueeMark said:
But the Govt. and the SNP can sideline the FTPA with a simple majority..... LibDems probably up for it too.Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.0 -
Considering the public don’t want an election; who cares?Philip_Thompson said:
What are the opposition going to say if there is no "no deal" excuse anymore?Danny565 said:
I'm just amazed people seem to have forgotten what happened literally SIX WEEKS AGO, the last time the government tried to "go for an election".Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.0 -
The crossbenchers are really going to get in the way of the desire of the Govt. plus other parties?AlastairMeeks said:
There’s this thing called the House of Lords.MarqueeMark said:
But the Govt. and the SNP can sideline the FTPA with a simple majority..... LibDems probably up for it too.Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.
Nah....0 -
In the LoopTOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...0 -
Big news
https://twitter.com/benyc/status/1186690494694383622?s=19
This dude was against impeachment.
Its happening.1 -
Noted thanks.Gallowgate said:
In the LoopTOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...0 -
They really need one before any Brexit. Apart from not being certifiable nut-jobs Brexit is their only strong point of difference.Noo said:
Lib Dems aren't in favour of an election right now.ozymandias said:
The SNP and Lib Dem’s would quite happily pick at Labour’s corpse right now.MarqueeMark said:
But the Govt. and the SNP can sideline the FTPA with a simple majority..... LibDems probably up for it too.Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.0 -
Ah just looked it up. Seen it. Thanks.Gallowgate said:
In the LoopTOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...0 -
Ah just looked it up. Seen it. Thanks.Gallowgate said:
In the LoopTOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...0 -
12 Angry Men?TOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...0 -
In Leave Chorley.TudorRose said:
But it will be Hoyle and he's got his own election to fight....nico67 said:
It could be ruled out of order so might not be picked . And in committee stage it’s not Bercow that picks them .Big_G_NorthWales said:
And that takes down the bill but the DUP categorically rejected any idea of it yesterdaynico67 said:Interesting name appears on the customs union amendment.
Stewart Hosie of the SNP. If the SNP back this aswell as the rest of the opposition and the DUP it has a chance of getting through .
The Tory MPs against this deal could also back this . Many Labour Leave MPs want a CU.
It gives them a chance to say we’re trying to get the best deal for our constituents.0 -
Turkeys don’t need an excuse not to vote for Christmas. Neither do they worry about looking scared. No rational person would, looking at the polls, call an election when they are doing so badly. The turkeys will hope that something comes up in the future. If you’re going to get cooked anyway why not postpone the inevitable.Philip_Thompson said:
What are the opposition going to say if there is no "no deal" excuse anymore?Danny565 said:
I'm just amazed people seem to have forgotten what happened literally SIX WEEKS AGO, the last time the government tried to "go for an election".Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.0 -
The House was going to vote for impeachment anyway as the Democrats control it but the Senate is still Republican controlled and will still likely block itAlistair said:Big news
https://twitter.com/benyc/status/1186690494694383622?s=19
This dude was against impeachment.
Its happening.0 -
Comedy & Action - 5th ElementTOPPING said:
Noted thanks.Gallowgate said:
In the LoopTOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...
Chic-flick - Sleepless in Seattle
Thriller - Hunt for Red October or possibly Jack Reacher
I suppose it depends what you are in the mood for.0 -
It’s precisely because of that that McDonnell’s starry-eyed admiration of them makes him unfit for office.TOPPING said:
But interesting to know that Labour party supporters think Lenin and Trotsky were disgusting warped mass murderers who are beyond the pale.Richard_Nabavi said:
Why on earth could anyone possibly object to associating Corbyn or McDonnell with Lenin and Trotsky, since they themselves are very happy with such an association?justin124 said:Would you like to see the Moderators intervene when a comment is next made here associating Corbyn or McDonnell with Lenin and Trosky? There is much humbug and hypocrisy around.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/78174/jeremy-corbyn-called-complete-rehabilitation-leon
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/03/exclusive-john-mcdonnell-named-lenin-and-trotsky-his-biggest-influences-20060 -
Seen it. Excellent. Thankssolarflare said:
12 Angry Men?TOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...0 -
The SNP aren't going to vote for a General election the timing of which is controlled by the Toriesm.MarqueeMark said:
But the Govt. and the SNP can sideline the FTPA with a simple majority..... LibDems probably up for it too.Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.
Stop hyperventilating0 -
Great shout. A film worth watching several times.solarflare said:
12 Angry Men?TOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...0 -
Can you imagine the HoL trying to block an election the HoC had voted for?AlastairMeeks said:
There’s this thing called the House of Lords.
The first party to promise to abolish them would get a 10% boost in the polls.
0 -
Hear hear.OnlyLivingBoy said:
The 1979-97 Tory government spent twenty years removing workers' rights, sometimes it was popular with voters at large, sometimes unpopular, but they had no problem doing it. They can always spin it as creating jobs or protecting consumers, or even giving people more choice. Plus bear in mind that a lot of voters, especially a lot of Tory voters, aren't actually workers. Basically, any worker who is looking to the voters to protect their rights is barking up the wrong tree.Gabs2 said:
That's ridiculous. If anything, a foolish attempt to change the law by removing worker rights from British people would cause a big Labour majority. That would end up with worker protections being strengthened.kinabalu said:
It does. Much safer. Trust me.Gabs2 said:No, it doesn't. It can be enshrined in UK law.
On a more general point, a lot of people on here think that everything should be up for political choice at the whim of a government that has maybe 35% of the vote. This is patently nonsense. People should have rights that can only be removed via a much higher threshold of consent. For me the EU was a very useful mechanism for protecting those rights. In its absence I think we should be looking to adopt a written constitution and super majority requirements for challenging fundamental rights including rights at work.0 -
-
It does always exasperate me though that the one person who had done the job properly and considered the evidence carefully is shown as a stubborn holdout rather than as the exemplar.Noo said:
Great shout. A film worth watching several times.solarflare said:
12 Angry Men?TOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...
The one I come away with most respect for is the older one who believed firmly as a point of principle that if somebody wanted to talk the matter through he should be allowed to.0 -
Stephen Gethins said on 5 live this afternoon they would endorse Boris GE request as long as the extension was long enough to hold a GEAlistair said:
The SNP aren't going to vote for a General election the timing of which is controlled by the Toriesm.MarqueeMark said:
But the Govt. and the SNP can sideline the FTPA with a simple majority..... LibDems probably up for it too.Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.
Stop hyperventilating0 -
Ten Canoes? Mr Vampire [Chinese]? If you want a real change ...TOPPING said:
Seen it. Excellent. Thankssolarflare said:
12 Angry Men?TOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...0 -
Thanks seen them all and was in the perfect mood for each! ThanksBeibheirli_C said:
Comedy & Action - 5th ElementTOPPING said:
Noted thanks.Gallowgate said:
In the LoopTOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...
Chic-flick - Sleepless in Seattle
Thriller - Hunt for Red October or possibly Jack Reacher
I suppose it depends what you are in the mood for.0 -
Enjoying reading the threads this evening. I'm out of action with a stomach bug and after watching hours of Netflix, PB is as ever a healthy tonic.
How close do we think programme motion is going to be?1 -
You keep saying that and you keep ignoring the simple fact that the govt lacks a majority by quite a margin.MarqueeMark said:
But the Govt. and the SNP can sideline the FTPA with a simple majority.....Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.MarqueeMark said:....LibDems probably up for it too.
Get your tapwater tested. There must be some hallucinogens in it....0 -
This seems the best estimate:Mortimer said:Enjoying reading the threads this evening. I'm out of action with a stomach bug and after watching hours of Netflix, PB is as ever a healthy tonic.
How close do we think programme motion is going to be?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11866735127837163570 -
Blimey sounds interesting. I have seen many Chinese films in my day. Shaw Brothers showing at 2am in Leicester Square!Carnyx said:
Ten Canoes? Mr Vampire [Chinese]? If you want a real change ...TOPPING said:
Seen it. Excellent. Thankssolarflare said:
12 Angry Men?TOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...0 -
TOPPING said:
Thanks seen them all and was in the perfect mood for each! ThanksBeibheirli_C said:
Comedy & Action - 5th ElementTOPPING said:
Noted thanks.Gallowgate said:
In the LoopTOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...
Chic-flick - Sleepless in Seattle
Thriller - Hunt for Red October or possibly Jack Reacher
I suppose it depends what you are in the mood for.
If you can find it online, try The Fisher King - Jeff Bridges and Robin Williams
Foreign movie (very hard to find online) - Raise the Red Lantern, but make sure it has subtitles. Great cinematography.0 -
and it seems the best estimate for the gov. Be amazed if programme motion passes, most Lab rebels don't have the balls to make an actual decision.Danny565 said:
This seems the best estimate:Mortimer said:Enjoying reading the threads this evening. I'm out of action with a stomach bug and after watching hours of Netflix, PB is as ever a healthy tonic.
How close do we think programme motion is going to be?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11866735127837163570 -
Do you mean the guy with the glasses? He comes out of it pretty well I think.ydoethur said:
It does always exasperate me though that the one person who had done the job properly and considered the evidence carefully is shown as a stubborn holdout rather than as the exemplar.Noo said:
Great shout. A film worth watching several times.solarflare said:
12 Angry Men?TOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...0 -
Was rewatching the Enron film - now tuned into BBC Parliament! Buckland's dulcet tones are very soothing to this (part) Welshman.TOPPING said:
Thanks seen them all and was in the perfect mood for each! ThanksBeibheirli_C said:
Comedy & Action - 5th ElementTOPPING said:
Noted thanks.Gallowgate said:
In the LoopTOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...
Chic-flick - Sleepless in Seattle
Thriller - Hunt for Red October or possibly Jack Reacher
I suppose it depends what you are in the mood for.0 -
Is it still on iPlayer?Gallowgate said:
In the LoopTOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...0 -
Likely close enough that the DUP votes will be crucial, which is bad for the government.Mortimer said:Enjoying reading the threads this evening. I'm out of action with a stomach bug and after watching hours of Netflix, PB is as ever a healthy tonic.
How close do we think programme motion is going to be?
I struggle to see why enough Ex-cons would not vote it down though to see it fail. They may accept Brexit even if Labour and co do not, but they have genuine concerns about scrutiny.0 -
Oh hang on - is Lady Hermon going to flip?0
-
Politicians aren't turkeys though. They do need to speak. And Labour aren't acting in isolation. The SNP and LDs will look at the polls and think "game on we will gain seats". If Labour are cowards they would be humiliated not just by the Tories but by the SNP and Lib Dems.DougSeal said:
Turkeys don’t need an excuse not to vote for Christmas. Neither do they worry about looking scared. No rational person would, looking at the polls, call an election when they are doing so badly. The turkeys will hope that something comes up in the future. If you’re going to get cooked anyway why not postpone the inevitable.Philip_Thompson said:
What are the opposition going to say if there is no "no deal" excuse anymore?Danny565 said:
I'm just amazed people seem to have forgotten what happened literally SIX WEEKS AGO, the last time the government tried to "go for an election".Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.
If Labour don't stand for having an election to get rid of the Tories then what do they stand for?0 -
Hope so but I fear not.Casino_Royale said:Got a horrible feeling we might get caught in a doom loop here.
Passes at 2nd reading (House agrees on Brexit in principle), CU is added to Bill at Committee stage (making it basically May’s Deal again, with a permanent backstop) leading to it failing at 3rd reading as the ERG pull support.
Rinse and re-fucking-peat.0 -
I think both votes will pass0
-
As Scotland has no history of terrorist violence unlike Northern Ireland and as Scotland does not border another EU nation like Northern Ireland eitherCarnyx said:
But if it is good enough for NI why not us Scots? We DID vote against Brexit, you know.Philip_Thompson said:
If Scotland and Wales wish to rejoin the EU they should hold a referendum on exiting the UK then begin negotiations on accession to the EU.Gabs2 said:
Scotland, Wales and London are not being put inside some EU laws, so there is nothing of a scale needed to consent to.noneoftheabove said:
And London please!Carnyx said:
So you would apply that to Scotland (and Wales, if they want)?Philip_Thompson said:
That's democracy. If these arrangements are bad for NI then people opposing them can seek to get 46 seats plus.eek said:
There isn't a unilateral exit - it requires a majority of NI votes and that will not occur. Unionists only have 40 of the 90 seats and that percentage is likely to drop over time not increasePhilip_Thompson said:
The EU was adamant with TM there could be no unilateral exit. There is a unilateral exit now. The EU has compromised.eristdoof said:
This is fundamentally untrue. People make compromises and reach agreements when it is mutually beneficial to do so. Johnson compromised before a deadline because he is desperate to do Brexit, so it was beneficial for him to move to get this deal agreed. It was beneficial to the EU because it was from their point of view it is much better than what they had offered TM.Philip_Thompson said:
People only make compromises when there is a deadline approaching. The second the 31/10 becomes flexible everyone will get on their high horses and stop compromising and demand everyone else agrees with them just as everyone did under May.
When there is a deadline approaching people start to make bad decisions. There is a lot of pressure to meet the deadline and not enough time to examine the implicatons of these "compromises".
Especially as the ties to GB will drop significantly over time - the VAT changes and paperwork alone will make buying things from Northern Ireland more of a hassle.
If they don't get 46 seats or more that is the choice of the voters of NI. I have no wish to impose upon or override the voters of NI, I respect them enough to make the decision theirs. This is their future, they can decide - unilaterally.0 -
Thanks seen Fisher King. Will look out for the other.Beibheirli_C said:TOPPING said:
Thanks seen them all and was in the perfect mood for each! ThanksBeibheirli_C said:
Comedy & Action - 5th ElementTOPPING said:
Noted thanks.Gallowgate said:
In the LoopTOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...
Chic-flick - Sleepless in Seattle
Thriller - Hunt for Red October or possibly Jack Reacher
I suppose it depends what you are in the mood for.
If you can find it online, try The Fisher King - Jeff Bridges and Robin Williams
Foreign movie (very hard to find online) - Raise the Red Lantern, but make sure it has subtitles. Great cinematography.0 -
The talk of SNP involvement surprises me a bit given the danger of the SNP being seen to be allied with the Tories. Labour are still going on about the fall of the Callaghan government 39 years ago!! - or at leastd they still think it is a good attack line. On the other hand , if there aren't many Labour MPs left, and if the LDs are also in on it ...Philip_Thompson said:
Politicians aren't turkeys though. They do need to speak. And Labour aren't acting in isolation. The SNP and LDs will look at the polls and think "game on we will gain seats". If Labour are cowards they would be humiliated not just by the Tories but by the SNP and Lib Dems.DougSeal said:
Turkeys don’t need an excuse not to vote for Christmas. Neither do they worry about looking scared. No rational person would, looking at the polls, call an election when they are doing so badly. The turkeys will hope that something comes up in the future. If you’re going to get cooked anyway why not postpone the inevitable.Philip_Thompson said:
What are the opposition going to say if there is no "no deal" excuse anymore?Danny565 said:
I'm just amazed people seem to have forgotten what happened literally SIX WEEKS AGO, the last time the government tried to "go for an election".Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.
If Labour don't stand for having an election to get rid of the Tories then what do they stand for?
And of course it's one thing to bring down a Labour regime, but another to bring down a Tory one.0 -
0
-
Er, England is still in the EU. [edited to remove minor but thoughtless discourtesy]HYUFD said:
As Scotland has no history of terrorist violence unlike Northern Ireland and as Scotland does not border another EU nation like Northern Ireland eitherCarnyx said:
But if it is good enough for NI why not us Scots? We DID vote against Brexit, you know.Philip_Thompson said:
If Scotland and Wales wish to rejoin the EU they should hold a referendum on exiting the UK then begin negotiations on accession to the EU.Gabs2 said:
Scotland, Wales and London are not being put inside some EU laws, so there is nothing of a scale needed to consent to.noneoftheabove said:
And London please!Carnyx said:
So you would apply that to Scotland (and Wales, if they want)?Philip_Thompson said:
That's democracy. If these arrangements are bad for NI then people opposing them can seek to get 46 seats plus.eek said:
There isn't a unilateral exit - it requires a majority of NI votes and that will not occur. Unionists only have 40 of the 90 seats and that percentage is likely to drop over time not increasePhilip_Thompson said:
The EU was adamant with TM there could be no unilateral exit. There is a unilateral exit now. The EU has compromised.eristdoof said:
This is fundamentally untrue. People make compromises and reach agreements when it is mutually beneficial to do so. Johnson compromised before a deadline because he is desperate to do Brexit, so it was beneficial for him to move to get this deal agreed. It was beneficial to the EU because it was from their point of view it is much better than what they had offered TM.Philip_Thompson said:
People only make compromises when there is a deadline approaching. The second the 31/10 becomes flexible everyone will get on their high horses and stop compromising and demand everyone else agrees with them just as everyone did under May.
When there is a deadline approaching people start to make bad decisions. There is a lot of pressure to meet the deadline and not enough time to examine the implicatons of these "compromises".
Especially as the ties to GB will drop significantly over time - the VAT changes and paperwork alone will make buying things from Northern Ireland more of a hassle.
If they don't get 46 seats or more that is the choice of the voters of NI. I have no wish to impose upon or override the voters of NI, I respect them enough to make the decision theirs. This is their future, they can decide - unilaterally.0 -
Ha! Thanks! And I think Blakklansman has it.Mortimer said:
Was rewatching the Enron film - now tuned into BBC Parliament! Buckland's dulcet tones are very soothing to this (part) Welshman.TOPPING said:
Thanks seen them all and was in the perfect mood for each! ThanksBeibheirli_C said:
Comedy & Action - 5th ElementTOPPING said:
Noted thanks.Gallowgate said:
In the LoopTOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...
Chic-flick - Sleepless in Seattle
Thriller - Hunt for Red October or possibly Jack Reacher
I suppose it depends what you are in the mood for.
Thanks all enjoy the evening0 -
How many are even listening by that point?Andrew said:Predictable concession I guess:
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/11867041395579658240 -
The program motion is an awkward one. Were things to go disasterously wrong could you legitimately say that 3 days was enough to time scrutinise the bill.Brom said:
and it seems the best estimate for the gov. Be amazed if programme motion passes, most Lab rebels don't have the balls to make an actual decision.Danny565 said:
This seems the best estimate:Mortimer said:Enjoying reading the threads this evening. I'm out of action with a stomach bug and after watching hours of Netflix, PB is as ever a healthy tonic.
How close do we think programme motion is going to be?
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/11866735127837163570 -
Interesting. Johnson is reported to be seeking a GE if the extension is more than 10 days. The SNP will seek a general election provided the extension is not a short one. They appear to share very similar positions.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Stephen Gethins said on 5 live this afternoon they would endorse Boris GE request as long as the extension was long enough to hold a GEAlistair said:
The SNP aren't going to vote for a General election the timing of which is controlled by the Toriesm.MarqueeMark said:
But the Govt. and the SNP can sideline the FTPA with a simple majority..... LibDems probably up for it too.Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.
Stop hyperventilating
If a motion for a GE gained support of at least 1/2 but less than 2/3rds of MPs, the next step could be motion of no confidence in the government tabled by the SNP, for which the Government if necessary makes available parliamentary time if not otherwise allowed by the Speaker.0 -
They stand for getting rid of the Tories at the first available opportunity. However, the opportunity is not currently available. Why risk giving the Tories another 5 years when for the sake of a few months or even a couple of years they might win? Why should they give battle at a time of their opponent’s choosing when they know they will be humiliated? Better to wait until a time they have the possibility of victory or, at least, there is at least a marginal uptick in the polls. That day may never come before 2022 - but no one Should fight a battle they know they will lose. Wait for the opportunity. The “coward” line is just Tory baiting.Philip_Thompson said:
Politicians aren't turkeys though. They do need to speak. And Labour aren't acting in isolation. The SNP and LDs will look at the polls and think "game on we will gain seats". If Labour are cowards they would be humiliated not just by the Tories but by the SNP and Lib Dems.DougSeal said:
Turkeys don’t need an excuse not to vote for Christmas. Neither do they worry about looking scared. No rational person would, looking at the polls, call an election when they are doing so badly. The turkeys will hope that something comes up in the future. If you’re going to get cooked anyway why not postpone the inevitable.Philip_Thompson said:
What are the opposition going to say if there is no "no deal" excuse anymore?Danny565 said:
I'm just amazed people seem to have forgotten what happened literally SIX WEEKS AGO, the last time the government tried to "go for an election".Gallowgate said:
A GE is not in the government’s gift.SunnyJim said:There has to be a point where remainer MPs realise they've given overturning the result a good go but the game's up.
If the government pulls the bill and we have a GE then in my view it is very unlikely the composition of the next parliament is going to be as favourable to remainers as this one.
They could vote the deal through and go in to an election on a domestic agenda that actually matters.
If Labour don't stand for having an election to get rid of the Tories then what do they stand for?0 -
Get in touch with your inner Scot.TOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...
Local Hero.1 -
-
1
-
French Film Special ForcesTOPPING said:Ok team 10 minutes to suggest a good film for me to watch tonight. Minus points for anyone who suggests BBC Parliament.
Edit: have I ever said one of my favourite films is Four Lions...0 -
As is Scotland and Scotland will leave the EU at the same time as England while the Republic of Ireland still stays in the EUCarnyx said:
Er, England is still in the EU. [edited to remove minor but thoughtless discourtesy]HYUFD said:
As Scotland has no history of terrorist violence unlike Northern Ireland and as Scotland does not border another EU nation like Northern Ireland eitherCarnyx said:
But if it is good enough for NI why not us Scots? We DID vote against Brexit, you know.Philip_Thompson said:
If Scotland and Wales wish to rejoin the EU they should hold a referendum on exiting the UK then begin negotiations on accession to the EU.Gabs2 said:
Scotland, Wales and London are not being put inside some EU laws, so there is nothing of a scale needed to consent to.noneoftheabove said:
And London please!Carnyx said:
So you would apply that to Scotland (and Wales, if they want)?Philip_Thompson said:
That's democracy. If these arrangements are bad for NI then rally.eek said:
There isn't a unilateral exit - it requires a majority of NI votes and that will not occur. Unionists only have 40 of the 90 seats and that percentage is likely to drop over time not increasePhilip_Thompson said:
The EU was adamant with TM there could be no unilateral exit. There is a unilateral exit now. The EU has compromised.eristdoof said:
This is fundamentally untrue. People make compromises and reach agreements when it is mutually beneficial to do so. Johnson compromised before a deadline because he is desperate to do Brexit, so it was beneficial for him to move to get this deal agreed. It was beneficial to the EU because it was from their point of view it is much better than what they had offered TM.Philip_Thompson said:
People only make compromises when there is a deadline approaching. The second the 31/10 becomes flexible everyone will get on their high horses and stop compromising and demand everyone else agrees with them just as everyone did under May.
When there is a deadline approaching people start to make bad decisions. There is a lot of pressure to meet the deadline and not enough time to examine the implicatons of these "compromises".
Especially as the ties to GB will drop significantly over time - the VAT changes and paperwork alone will make buying things from Northern Ireland more of a hassle.0 -
