politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » “Honouring” the referendum should apply to not just to the out
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I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.0 -
Labour could have condemned the country to the May deal, with all the Tory infighting that would have caused. All they had to do was abstain.Omnium said:
I'm far from sure about that.surbiton19 said:
If Johnson really gets this done, he can look forward to 400 Tory MPs at the next GE. Even the ERG will be neutered.Gabs2 said:
The main thing killing the Labour Party right now is Brexit. The Party is standing in the middle of the road and getting hit by cars going both ways. Taking Brexit off the table forces the politics back onto economics, public services and inequality, where the Tories are much, much weaker.surbiton19 said:Reading the tea leaves, the question arises: will 20 Labour MPs hand Johnson a landslide victory at the next GE ?
If Boris gets the deal done and gets parliament to agree then it is a big achievement. Someone here pointed out that the country didn't rally behind Churchill post ww2. The well known 'very effective' response to Clem.
He will have done well though, and all but the ghasts will accept that. The Queen's Speech was interesting - there was good stuff. It's what's there that'll probably count most.
Labour, as exemplared by the wibbling Kinnock Jnr on the BBC at the moment have been total fuckwits in all of this.
Fuckwittery has been added to hypocrisy as a core Labour skill.0 -
Latest Canadian election projection (with 6 days to go):
Lib 134
Con 134
NDP 33
BQ 33
Grn 4
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/0 -
It’s the spin which destroys her comment if she had just said ‘I hear labour MPs will be whipped’ To oppose a deal that we don’t even know what it is just silly.ydoethur said:
It’s an astonishing claim and totally implausible.nichomar said:
Really reliable unbiased source then, can she tell us what the deal is rather than spout shit?TGOHF2 said:
Does anyone really believe Nadine Dorries is on speaking terms with any Labour MPs?
However, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was right. When Labour reject heir own proposals as meaningless drivel you know all they care about is themselves, as befits a bunch of third rate fat cat stooges who got here by family wealth and contacts.0 -
Sour grapes?nichomar said:What is this wonderful deal that people are coalescing around? It is a disgrace that anybody signs up for a deal which is worse than the one we currently have. Supporting any deal just to get it over is insane and close to criminal.
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So tell me what’s so good about Johnson’s deal then?MarqueeMark said:
Labour could have condemned the country to the May deal, with all the Tory infighting that would have caused. All they had to do was abstain.Omnium said:
I'm far from sure about that.surbiton19 said:
If Johnson really gets this done, he can look forward to 400 Tory MPs at the next GE. Even the ERG will be neutered.Gabs2 said:
The main thing killing the Labour Party right now is Brexit. The Party is standing in the middle of the road and getting hit by cars going both ways. Taking Brexit off the table forces the politics back onto economics, public services and inequality, where the Tories are much, much weaker.surbiton19 said:Reading the tea leaves, the question arises: will 20 Labour MPs hand Johnson a landslide victory at the next GE ?
If Boris gets the deal done and gets parliament to agree then it is a big achievement. Someone here pointed out that the country didn't rally behind Churchill post ww2. The well known 'very effective' response to Clem.
He will have done well though, and all but the ghasts will accept that. The Queen's Speech was interesting - there was good stuff. It's what's there that'll probably count most.
Labour, as exemplared by the wibbling Kinnock Jnr on the BBC at the moment have been total fuckwits in all of this.
Fuckwittery has been added to hypocrisy as a core Labour skill.0 -
Yep, not going to disagree with that. Even if I wasn't happy with the result, it was good to have a national election where my vote counted for once.TGOHF2 said:
Like the EU referendum ?El_Capitano said:
I've heard so much about "our democracy" on this site over the last few years. I'm hoping that when this Brexit stuff is over we might actually get one of these democracy things. You know, with votes that actually count no matter where you live.Casino_Royale said:
Failing to leave would be catastrophic for our democracy.Byronic said:
Yes. There is a perfectly sane route to EU membership for the UK. It's called Rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
We exit, we don't like it, the next Labour/LD govt promises a new vote. They win.
We could be back in, inside less than a decade, with no terminal and horrible damage done to UK democracy.0 -
MPs of different parties talk to each other all the time. Apparently a lot of them prefer chatting to members from other parties compared to their own.ydoethur said:
It’s an astonishing claim and totally implausible.nichomar said:
Really reliable unbiased source then, can she tell us what the deal is rather than spout shit?TGOHF2 said:
Does anyone really believe Nadine Dorries is on speaking terms with any Labour MPs?
However, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was right. When Labour reject heir own proposals as meaningless drivel you know all they care about is themselves, as befits a bunch of third rate fat cat stooges who got here by family wealth and contacts.0 -
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite0 -
Interesting . Apparently because the Benn Act connects with Article 50 the full legal text has to be voted on . So if the government puts forward just an outline deal then Johnson can not get round the Benn Act .0
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On (ii), we can be sure that those PBers previously screeching about the vile surrender of NI sovereignty to the foreigns are ready to do a volte-face; they can smell their precious. The question is whither they goest, will the weary masses go?matthiasfromhamburg said:
Two questions:surbiton19 said:Reading the tea leaves, the question arises: will 20 Labour MPs hand Johnson a landslide victory at the next GE ?
(i) If 20 Labour MPs help the deal over the line, who will be able to force a GE and when will they be able to do this?
(ii) If Mr Johnson is being perceived by many to have sacrificed NI to neverending vassaldom, will he really win in a landslide?0 -
I'd be highly tempted to vote for National Labout lead by the formidible Caroline Flint.Gabs2 said:
They could form the National Labour Party, put in Caroline Flint as leader, and decimate Corbyn at the next election.MarqueeMark said:
100 abstentions then.....TGOHF2 said:
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There was a brief piece on the news about the hate crime figures released today, and one of the headline numbers they mentioned was that about half of all religious hate crimes were targeted at Muslims. This piqued my interest because I was surprised that only half of all religious hate crime was targeted at Muslims, so I had a look at the figures to find out more.
47% of offences target Muslims, 18% Jews and 17% are Unknown (which seems problematic when deciding whether an offence is committed, but helps to explain why the Muslim proportion is lower than I expected).
The difference between 47% targeting Muslims and 18% targeting Jews is interesting when you compare to their relative proportion of the UK population, which was 4.4% and 0.4% respectively in the 2011 census. This means that Jews are more than four times as likely to be the target of religious hate crime than Muslims, when you correct for their relative population - something missed by the superficial BBC report (or my superficial listening to it while I washed the dishes).1 -
That's because on this issue you care about amusing yourself like a troll and seemingly not much else.AlastairMeeks said:I'm enjoying this latest Leave meme that the referendum vote was presented to us, fully formed, immanent and unblemished by external influences.
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I seem to recall a poster who claimed the backstop was immoral because NI had to take EU rules without having MEPs how is the new much trailed, apparently, deal any different?Theuniondivvie said:
On (ii), we can be sure that those PBers previously screeching about the vile surrender of NI sovereignty to the foreigns are ready to do a volte-face; they can smell their precious. The question is whither they goest, will the weary masses go?matthiasfromhamburg said:
Two questions:surbiton19 said:Reading the tea leaves, the question arises: will 20 Labour MPs hand Johnson a landslide victory at the next GE ?
(i) If 20 Labour MPs help the deal over the line, who will be able to force a GE and when will they be able to do this?
(ii) If Mr Johnson is being perceived by many to have sacrificed NI to neverending vassaldom, will he really win in a landslide?0 -
Does anyone have a link to the tape of Wee Nicola’s full speech? I have heard it’s impressive and would like to watch it. Whatever you think of her politics, Sturgeon is a class act - a seriously able politician.0
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Yes, I do know that.AndyJS said:
MPs of different parties talk to each other all the time. Apparently a lot of them prefer chatting to members from other parties compared to their own.ydoethur said:
It’s an astonishing claim and totally implausible.nichomar said:
Really reliable unbiased source then, can she tell us what the deal is rather than spout shit?TGOHF2 said:
Does anyone really believe Nadine Dorries is on speaking terms with any Labour MPs?
However, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was right. When Labour reject heir own proposals as meaningless drivel you know all they care about is themselves, as befits a bunch of third rate fat cat stooges who got here by family wealth and contacts.
You do know we are talking about Nadine Dorries here?
Honestly, it’s as plausible as finding that Laura Pidcock’s baby was the secret love child of Dominic Raab.0 -
The old joke about opponents and enemies.AndyJS said:
MPs of different parties talk to each other all the time. Apparently a lot of them prefer chatting to members from other parties compared to their own.ydoethur said:
It’s an astonishing claim and totally implausible.nichomar said:
Really reliable unbiased source then, can she tell us what the deal is rather than spout shit?TGOHF2 said:
Does anyone really believe Nadine Dorries is on speaking terms with any Labour MPs?
However, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was right. When Labour reject heir own proposals as meaningless drivel you know all they care about is themselves, as befits a bunch of third rate fat cat stooges who got here by family wealth and contacts.0 -
Indeed. If you change it to "regardless of how bad it is for the country" it puts the situation in its proper perspective.nichomar said:
It’s the spin which destroys her comment if she had just said ‘I hear labour MPs will be whipped’ To oppose a deal that we don’t even know what it is just silly.ydoethur said:
It’s an astonishing claim and totally implausible.nichomar said:
Really reliable unbiased source then, can she tell us what the deal is rather than spout shit?TGOHF2 said:
Does anyone really believe Nadine Dorries is on speaking terms with any Labour MPs?
However, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was right. When Labour reject heir own proposals as meaningless drivel you know all they care about is themselves, as befits a bunch of third rate fat cat stooges who got here by family wealth and contacts.1 -
Not all Rangers fans are sectarian Prod bigots but all sectarian Prod bigots are Rangers fans.TGOHF2 said:
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite
©Everyone in Scotland who is not The People.1 -
"Harry Dunn crash: Dominic Raab was ‘cold’ and ‘rude’"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/harry-dunn-crash-dominic-raab-was-cold-and-rude-rsr0qzvr60 -
TGOHF2 said:
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.0 -
A very good point, and why no votes from that direction can be taken for granted until they have already passed through the Division Lobby.AlastairMeeks said:
The big point to note here is not to confuse your Dominic Raabs and Jacob Rees-Moggs with your Steve Bakers and Owen Patersons. There is a false belief among some commentators that plenty of the final 28 holdouts are in government. They aren't: Priti Patel, Theresa Villiers, Julian Lewis (who I previously overlooked) and James Duddridge are the only ones who are. Some of the people touted as hardliners are not.Scott_P said:
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For someone who carries the emotional; warmth of a Flashman bully I wouldn't expect anything else...AndyJS said:"Harry Dunn crash: Dominic Raab was ‘cold’ and ‘rude’"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/harry-dunn-crash-dominic-raab-was-cold-and-rude-rsr0qzvr61 -
I thought that on Sunday watching her interview, she answered questions directly and didn’t try to dodge issues, I don’t agree with her but she is clearly better than some south or west of the the border.Anabobazina said:Does anyone have a link to the tape of Wee Nicola’s full speech? I have heard it’s impressive and would like to watch it. Whatever you think of her politics, Sturgeon is a class act - a seriously able politician.
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If they thought Raab was bad I think they might be meeting The Donald tonight...AndyJS said:"Harry Dunn crash: Dominic Raab was ‘cold’ and ‘rude’"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/harry-dunn-crash-dominic-raab-was-cold-and-rude-rsr0qzvr60 -
TBF, saying she’s better than Johnson or Corbyn is like saying somebody was more sober than Boris Yeltsin.nichomar said:
I thought that on Sunday watching her interview, she answered questions directly and didn’t try to dodge issues, I don’t agree with her but she is clearly better than some south or west of the the border.Anabobazina said:Does anyone have a link to the tape of Wee Nicola’s full speech? I have heard it’s impressive and would like to watch it. Whatever you think of her politics, Sturgeon is a class act - a seriously able politician.
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The Meeks almost invariably makes very good points...unlike some other others on this sitekle4 said:
A very good point, and why no votes from that direction can be taken for granted until they have already passed through the Division Lobby.AlastairMeeks said:
The big point to note here is not to confuse your Dominic Raabs and Jacob Rees-Moggs with your Steve Bakers and Owen Patersons. There is a false belief among some commentators that plenty of the final 28 holdouts are in government. They aren't: Priti Patel, Theresa Villiers, Julian Lewis (who I previously overlooked) and James Duddridge are the only ones who are. Some of the people touted as hardliners are not.Scott_P said:
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Actually, at least in the Premier League, football fans are now very woke. Racist, homophobic, sexist even fattist comments are now pretty rare, and usually suppressed by fellow fans.TGOHF2 said:
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite
At a recent match Leicester City distributed pride flags and t shirts (the pride festival was on Vicky Park a mile away from the ground, and a lot of supporters headed there afterwards). A few rows in front of me, a woman who wears a headscarf in the Bengali style and her two daughters were happily showing these off. I seemed to be the only one around who even thought it noteworthy. My surrounding supporters in the East stand didn't even notice, when a few decades ago it would have provoked a lot of aggro.
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Sooner we get to the point of rejecting all possible deals so we can decide on a GE or referendum the better.SouthamObserver said:
If that is the case, we have wasted close to two years on absolutely nothing!! Still, if it gets a deal done that is the main thing.Danny565 said:Guardian says Boris has agreed "in principle" to a Customs border between NI and the British mainland.
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Agree entirely. Feck em. Can see this shitty deal getting through with the help of Kinnock and his turn coats. All I hope is that when this turns into the inevitable disaster Johnson and his cronies will own it.tyson said:TGOHF2 said:
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.0 -
Yeah, I’ve got a close friend who is Rangers, and a proud Scot. He seems to be unusual nowadays, as the club has been overtaken by NI loyalist bigots. Amazing to think that they were once considered to be ‘Scotland’s Team’.Theuniondivvie said:
Not all Rangers fans are sectarian Prod bigots but all sectarian Prod bigots are Rangers fans.TGOHF2 said:
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite
©Everyone in Scotland who is not The People.0 -
Clearly not true.TGOHF2 said:
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite0 -
But your vote won't count until the outcome is enacted. Any refusal to undertake the outcome of the referendum is disrespectful to everyone who voted, whether leave or remain. Only those who stayed at home can be satisfied they made the right decision.El_Capitano said:
Yep, not going to disagree with that. Even if I wasn't happy with the result, it was good to have a national election where my vote counted for once.TGOHF2 said:
Like the EU referendum ?El_Capitano said:
I've heard so much about "our democracy" on this site over the last few years. I'm hoping that when this Brexit stuff is over we might actually get one of these democracy things. You know, with votes that actually count no matter where you live.Casino_Royale said:
Failing to leave would be catastrophic for our democracy.Byronic said:
Yes. There is a perfectly sane route to EU membership for the UK. It's called Rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
We exit, we don't like it, the next Labour/LD govt promises a new vote. They win.
We could be back in, inside less than a decade, with no terminal and horrible damage done to UK democracy.0 -
👍still as true today - in all areas of business, not just politics.another_richard said:
The old joke about opponents and enemies.AndyJS said:
MPs of different parties talk to each other all the time. Apparently a lot of them prefer chatting to members from other parties compared to their own.ydoethur said:
It’s an astonishing claim and totally implausible.nichomar said:
Really reliable unbiased source then, can she tell us what the deal is rather than spout shit?TGOHF2 said:
Does anyone really believe Nadine Dorries is on speaking terms with any Labour MPs?
However, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was right. When Labour reject heir own proposals as meaningless drivel you know all they care about is themselves, as befits a bunch of third rate fat cat stooges who got here by family wealth and contacts.0 -
I would miss the ‘who ate all the pies’ chant though!Foxy said:
Actually, at least in the Premier League, football fans are now very woke. Racist, homophobic, sexist even fattist comments are now pretty rare, and usually suppressed by fellow fans.TGOHF2 said:
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite
At a recent match Leicester City distributed pride flags and t shirts (the pride festival was on Vicky Park a mile away from the ground, and a lot of supporters headed there afterwards). A few rows in front of me, a woman who wears a headscarf in the Bengali style and her two daughters were happily showing these off. I seemed to be the only one around who even thought it noteworthy. My surrounding supporters in the East stand didn't even notice, when a few decades ago it would have provoked a lot of aggro.0 -
Presumably this from p206 of the WA is still there …..nichomar said:Anyone able to tell us how long the transition is in their wonderful deal? I think it’s still 31/21/2020 so we now have 14 months to negotiate the next stage, over.... it hasn’t even begun.
------------
ARTICLE 132
Extension of the transition period
1. Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single
decision extending the transition period for up to one or two years.
------------
Always pretty much certain that was going to be taken up, and now even more so.
0 -
What does "up to one or two years" mean? Surely "up to two" would be sufficient.Andrew said:
Page 206 of the WA:nichomar said:Anyone able to tell us how long the transition is in their wonderful deal? I think it’s still 31/21/2020 so we now have 14 months to negotiate the next stage, over.... it hasn’t even begun.
------------
ARTICLE 132
Extension of the transition period
1. Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single
decision extending the transition period for up to one or two years.
------------
Always pretty much certain that was going to be taken up, and now even more so.0 -
And? Somewhat true, but a very different point.Gabs2 said:
You will increasingly find Lithuanians and Romanians work side by side with young working class Brits in those barber shops and garages. I hear more and more Poles displaying features of cockney accents. Eastern Europeans are integrating into the British working class, just as Afro-Caribbean people did before them. They will intermingle and intermarry and increasingly have in-laws from Tallinn and Naples.Time_to_Leave said:
I think we are all tempted to think others see the world through our own prism. On that basis, I may Be wrong, but I don’t think you’re describing the views of plumbing apprentices, car mechanics, junior soldiers, or my local hairdressers. I don’t think most of those “ younger Brits” feel particularly European. I don’t disagree there’s a group who feel as you suggest; but I think it’s a subset. I think most won’t want to think about Europe again for a long time.Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.0 -
-
Whether the deal, should one be agreed, is good or not, the EU will have agreed in principle to it - unless we think the EU are all racist liars too, I don't know that Johnson's qualities matter all that much on this question, although the issue of whether it keeps him in place longer will be of concern of course.rottenborough said:0 -
Not our TGOHF2 surely not!tyson said:
For someone who carries the emotional; warmth of a Flashman bully I wouldn't expect anything else...AndyJS said:"Harry Dunn crash: Dominic Raab was ‘cold’ and ‘rude’"
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/harry-dunn-crash-dominic-raab-was-cold-and-rude-rsr0qzvr60 -
Well, no. Donald Trump’s a golfer for a start.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Clearly not true.TGOHF2 said:
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite0 -
So by his logic someone could vote for a deal without it being a vote for Johnson.Pulpstar said:
On a point of fact he voted to remain :.The_Taxman said:
Yeah, Paul Mason who voted Leave and recommended others do the same!dyedwoolie said:
Paul's a little testy. He seems irked a deal may be donerottenborough said:
https://twitter.com/paulmasonnews/status/7456609023184076800 -
Thanks for that observation which I have never* heard before on this site.TudorRose said:
But your vote won't count until the outcome is enacted. Any refusal to undertake the outcome of the referendum is disrespectful to everyone who voted, whether leave or remain. Only those who stayed at home can be satisfied they made the right decision.El_Capitano said:
Yep, not going to disagree with that. Even if I wasn't happy with the result, it was good to have a national election where my vote counted for once.TGOHF2 said:
Like the EU referendum ?El_Capitano said:
I've heard so much about "our democracy" on this site over the last few years. I'm hoping that when this Brexit stuff is over we might actually get one of these democracy things. You know, with votes that actually count no matter where you live.Casino_Royale said:
Failing to leave would be catastrophic for our democracy.Byronic said:
Yes. There is a perfectly sane route to EU membership for the UK. It's called Rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
We exit, we don't like it, the next Labour/LD govt promises a new vote. They win.
We could be back in, inside less than a decade, with no terminal and horrible damage done to UK democracy.
* in the last three minutes0 -
If that is what is happening we shall certainly see if the claims he is a better salesman than May are true.OnlyLivingBoy said:It seems like Johnson is following the Nixon to China strategy of agreeing to a deal that goes further towards the EU's demands than the one he voted against twice a few months ago. Can he bring the ultra-Leavers with him? He will have to I think, because his strategy seems to be to tilt towards a more Tory favourable PD, which will limit Labour support. All a long way from dyimg in a ditch, somewhat unsurprisingly.
0 -
Cheers I have wondered about that for a while so it looks like seven years in transition then which would suit me fine.JohnLilburne said:
What does "up to one or two years" mean? Surely "up to two" would be sufficient.Andrew said:
Page 206 of the WA:nichomar said:Anyone able to tell us how long the transition is in their wonderful deal? I think it’s still 31/21/2020 so we now have 14 months to negotiate the next stage, over.... it hasn’t even begun.
------------
ARTICLE 132
Extension of the transition period
1. Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single
decision extending the transition period for up to one or two years.
------------
Always pretty much certain that was going to be taken up, and now even more so.
0 -
If a deal that could go through is close, you’d think the EU would cooperate with Boris on the choreography (delay answering or offer 2 weeks). It’s not clear to me why they wouldn’t want this boil lanced.nico67 said:Interesting . Apparently because the Benn Act connects with Article 50 the full legal text has to be voted on . So if the government puts forward just an outline deal then Johnson can not get round the Benn Act .
Of course if it isn’t really close or Boris seems evasive, then a six month extension seems likely.0 -
Oh what a shame.Scott_P said:0 -
I’ve wondered that. It struck me that the implication is it must be complete years for budgetary reasons. “Up to” might be vague.nichomar said:
Cheers I have wondered about that for a while so it looks like seven years in transition then which would suit me fine.JohnLilburne said:
What does "up to one or two years" mean? Surely "up to two" would be sufficient.Andrew said:
Page 206 of the WA:nichomar said:Anyone able to tell us how long the transition is in their wonderful deal? I think it’s still 31/21/2020 so we now have 14 months to negotiate the next stage, over.... it hasn’t even begun.
------------
ARTICLE 132
Extension of the transition period
1. Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single
decision extending the transition period for up to one or two years.
------------
Always pretty much certain that was going to be taken up, and now even more so.0 -
Interesting comments from Steve Baker .
Indeed the DUP are so hated by much of the opposition that Bozo should go with .
Vote for the deal and fxck the DUP . I hate Brexit but anything that screws them will help me overcome the trauma of leaving l0 -
1
-
When we know what it is, we'll tell you.nichomar said:
So tell me what’s so good about Johnson’s deal then?MarqueeMark said:
Labour could have condemned the country to the May deal, with all the Tory infighting that would have caused. All they had to do was abstain.Omnium said:
I'm far from sure about that.surbiton19 said:
If Johnson really gets this done, he can look forward to 400 Tory MPs at the next GE. Even the ERG will be neutered.Gabs2 said:
The main thing killing the Labour Party right now is Brexit. The Party is standing in the middle of the road and getting hit by cars going both ways. Taking Brexit off the table forces the politics back onto economics, public services and inequality, where the Tories are much, much weaker.surbiton19 said:Reading the tea leaves, the question arises: will 20 Labour MPs hand Johnson a landslide victory at the next GE ?
If Boris gets the deal done and gets parliament to agree then it is a big achievement. Someone here pointed out that the country didn't rally behind Churchill post ww2. The well known 'very effective' response to Clem.
He will have done well though, and all but the ghasts will accept that. The Queen's Speech was interesting - there was good stuff. It's what's there that'll probably count most.
Labour, as exemplared by the wibbling Kinnock Jnr on the BBC at the moment have been total fuckwits in all of this.
Fuckwittery has been added to hypocrisy as a core Labour skill.
But on past form, Labour will fuck up the politics of handling their response.1 -
No he's not. Golfers worthy of the name don't cheat and don't lie about their handicaps.ydoethur said:
Well, no. Donald Trump’s a golfer for a start.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Clearly not true.TGOHF2 said:
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite0 -
0
-
Oh god, we're angered them by scoring first... *awaits drubbing*Scott_P said:Savour it while it lasts...
https://twitter.com/ScotlandNT/status/11841796369111203840 -
If it’s close they will literally stop the clock to give it a chance to go through and will allow leeway. If it’s not they wontTime_to_Leave said:
If a deal that could go through is close, you’d think the EU would cooperate with Boris on the choreography (delay answering or offer 2 weeks). It’s not clear to me why they wouldn’t want this boil lanced.nico67 said:Interesting . Apparently because the Benn Act connects with Article 50 the full legal text has to be voted on . So if the government puts forward just an outline deal then Johnson can not get round the Benn Act .
Of course if it isn’t really close or Boris seems evasive, then a six month extension seems likely.0 -
Party before country eh Tysontyson said:TGOHF2 said:
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.
Classy as always0 -
Only following the example of the Torys for eternityFloater said:
Party before country eh Tysontyson said:TGOHF2 said:
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.
Classy as always0 -
Can we stop the clock on Benn too?nichomar said:
If it’s close they will literally stop the clock to give it a chance to go through and will allow leeway. If it’s not they wontTime_to_Leave said:
If a deal that could go through is close, you’d think the EU would cooperate with Boris on the choreography (delay answering or offer 2 weeks). It’s not clear to me why they wouldn’t want this boil lanced.nico67 said:Interesting . Apparently because the Benn Act connects with Article 50 the full legal text has to be voted on . So if the government puts forward just an outline deal then Johnson can not get round the Benn Act .
Of course if it isn’t really close or Boris seems evasive, then a six month extension seems likely.0 -
-
So no different to the Tories then who brought on this shitshow because of their EU psycho drama . Let’s be blunt would the Tories be voting for a Labour Brexit deal .Floater said:
Party before country eh Tysontyson said:TGOHF2 said:
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.
Classy as always
0 -
Still plenty of non sectarian Rangers fans (including indy supporters), it's just that the Union Bear and Ultra types have got very, very noisy, not without tacit encouragement from the club it has to be said.Anabobazina said:
Yeah, I’ve got a close friend who is Rangers, and a proud Scot. He seems to be unusual nowadays, as the club has been overtaken by NI loyalist bigots. Amazing to think that they were once considered to be ‘Scotland’s Team’.Theuniondivvie said:
Not all Rangers fans are sectarian Prod bigots but all sectarian Prod bigots are Rangers fans.TGOHF2 said:
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite
©Everyone in Scotland who is not The People.0 -
Great news , it’s much easier to do customs checks that way and then people in Ireland and NI won’t notice much difference .Scott_P said:
At the same time the DUP can go fuck themselves . What’s not to like !0 -
Probably, if it did what it said on the tin and got the UK out of the EU. The objection from Labour benches isn't that it is a Tory Brexit, it is that it is a Brexit of any kind.nico67 said:
So no different to the Tories then who brought on this shitshow because of their EU psycho drama . Let’s be blunt would the Tories be voting for a Labour Brexit deal .Floater said:
Party before country eh Tysontyson said:TGOHF2 said:
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.
Classy as always0 -
👍👍👍Wulfrun_Phil said:
No he's not. Golfers worthy of the name don't cheat and don't lie about their handicaps.ydoethur said:
Well, no. Donald Trump’s a golfer for a start.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Clearly not true.TGOHF2 said:
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite0 -
An interesting point but I think they could hold the response to the ‘benn’ request could be held in abeyance. The one thing that has come out of this shit is that ‘some’ people, a precious few have had to learn about UK constitutional and parliamentary practice. I’ve found it fascinating but most people think I’ve gone stark raving bonkers! there are many one here who have gone the same way.MarqueeMark said:
Can we stop the clock on Benn too?nichomar said:
If it’s close they will literally stop the clock to give it a chance to go through and will allow leeway. If it’s not they wontTime_to_Leave said:
If a deal that could go through is close, you’d think the EU would cooperate with Boris on the choreography (delay answering or offer 2 weeks). It’s not clear to me why they wouldn’t want this boil lanced.nico67 said:Interesting . Apparently because the Benn Act connects with Article 50 the full legal text has to be voted on . So if the government puts forward just an outline deal then Johnson can not get round the Benn Act .
Of course if it isn’t really close or Boris seems evasive, then a six month extension seems likely.0 -
The vast bulk of them? No.nico67 said:
So no different to the Tories then who brought on this shitshow because of their EU psycho drama . Let’s be blunt would the Tories be voting for a Labour Brexit deal .Floater said:
Party before country eh Tysontyson said:TGOHF2 said:
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.
Classy as always
Despite it provoking an amount of party fracturing, with the Tiggers and the expulsions and various random defections to independent, Brexit has actually shown just how strong party loyalty can be, as people risk outcomes they probably thought they never would even consider, u-turn on major issues, in order to stick with the party.0 -
Y
Very impressiveAnabobazina said:Does anyone have a link to the tape of Wee Nicola’s full speech? I have heard it’s impressive and would like to watch it. Whatever you think of her politics, Sturgeon is a class act - a seriously able politician.
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1183725776136523776?s=210 -
I wonder what Tony Benn would have made of the Benn act?MarqueeMark said:
Can we stop the clock on Benn too?nichomar said:
If it’s close they will literally stop the clock to give it a chance to go through and will allow leeway. If it’s not they wontTime_to_Leave said:
If a deal that could go through is close, you’d think the EU would cooperate with Boris on the choreography (delay answering or offer 2 weeks). It’s not clear to me why they wouldn’t want this boil lanced.nico67 said:Interesting . Apparently because the Benn Act connects with Article 50 the full legal text has to be voted on . So if the government puts forward just an outline deal then Johnson can not get round the Benn Act .
Of course if it isn’t really close or Boris seems evasive, then a six month extension seems likely.
There's merit is some ways, but I think there's also an element of the cheap shot in others.
I disagreed with so much Tony Benn said, but I always listened - he said interesting things, and he wrote interesting things.
They're different, and it's unfair to judge one by anothers standards, nonetheless I think Hilary isn't shining.0 -
-
This is clearly untrue.Anabobazina said:
Yeah, I’ve got a close friend who is Rangers, and a proud Scot. He seems to be unusual nowadays, as the club has been overtaken by NI loyalist bigots. Amazing to think that they were once considered to be ‘Scotland’s Team’.Theuniondivvie said:
Not all Rangers fans are sectarian Prod bigots but all sectarian Prod bigots are Rangers fans.TGOHF2 said:
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite
©Everyone in Scotland who is not The People.
You don’t have any friends.
0 -
Once again showing your utter ignorance of our electoral system.Scott_P said:
Not this tedious bollocks, again.TudorRose said:But your vote won't count until the outcome is enacted.
If you vote in a GE and no Government is formed, you vote again.
Your vote counted. It wasn't enacted.
Democracy survives to vote another day...
We do not vote for a Government, we vote for an individual MP. The correct analogy is for an MP to be elected by their constituents and then Parliament deciding that they cannot take their seat and we have to vote again until we choose the person Parliament want0 -
The "no true golfer" fallacy. Lovely.Wulfrun_Phil said:
No he's not. Golfers worthy of the name don't cheat and don't lie about their handicaps.ydoethur said:
Well, no. Donald Trump’s a golfer for a start.OnlyLivingBoy said:
Clearly not true.TGOHF2 said:
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite0 -
I'm stuck in work and with the firm's filter and news paywalls I'm stuck. What is a good free source on news, specifically the DUP meeting in Downing Street? Laura Ks Twitter is not much help and Bloomberg, Reuters and Reuters UK aren't great.0
-
Nobody knows - it’s a tunnel.viewcode said:I'm stuck in work and with the firm's filter and news paywalls I'm stuck. What is a good free source on news, specifically the DUP meeting in Downing Street? Laura Ks Twitter is not much help and Bloomberg, Reuters and Reuters UK aren't great.
But remember- Boris ain’t May.0 -
I doubt life's ever easy in Holyhead. It's a bit of a grim place.nichomar said:0 -
That’s my sense. It’s a sad state of affairs in what is/was one of the world’s great football clubs.Theuniondivvie said:
Still plenty of non sectarian Rangers fans (including indy supporters), it's just that the Union Bear and Ultra types have got very, very noisy, not without tacit encouragement from the club it has to be said.Anabobazina said:
Yeah, I’ve got a close friend who is Rangers, and a proud Scot. He seems to be unusual nowadays, as the club has been overtaken by NI loyalist bigots. Amazing to think that they were once considered to be ‘Scotland’s Team’.Theuniondivvie said:
SnipTGOHF2 said:
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite0 -
Do you have a link to what I asked for?TGOHF2 said:Y
Very impressiveAnabobazina said:Does anyone have a link to the tape of Wee Nicola’s full speech? I have heard it’s impressive and would like to watch it. Whatever you think of her politics, Sturgeon is a class act - a seriously able politician.
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1183725776136523776?s=210 -
In other Culture War news....
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/15/red-poppy-used-remember-civilian-victims-for-first-time0 -
.So if this is true, Boris Johnson is proposing a less good deal than that of May, which splits the UK internally...
...and the ERG lap it up?
What a bunch of third rate morons. Like Corbyn only a bit poorer.0 -
Thank you for the response. I was however hoping for an answer...TGOHF2 said:
Nobody knows - it’s a tunnel.viewcode said:I'm stuck in work and with the firm's filter and news paywalls I'm stuck. What is a good free source on news, specifically the DUP meeting in Downing Street? Laura Ks Twitter is not much help and Bloomberg, Reuters and Reuters UK aren't great.
But remember- Boris ain’t May.
0 -
God no - she ignored the mess she’s made of the education system and bored on about a referendum next year that she can’t deliver.Anabobazina said:
Do you have a link to what I asked for?TGOHF2 said:Y
Very impressiveAnabobazina said:Does anyone have a link to the tape of Wee Nicola’s full speech? I have heard it’s impressive and would like to watch it. Whatever you think of her politics, Sturgeon is a class act - a seriously able politician.
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1183725776136523776?s=21
And the clapping morons lapped it up.0 -
It used to be one of the few places in GB that you had ‘real’ Guinness but south stack is dramatic. Apparently there have been no preparations in Holyhead for a border in the Irish Sea.El_Capitano said:
I doubt life's ever easy in Holyhead. It's a bit of a grim place.nichomar said:0 -
You might find the story of Charles Bradlaugh of interest as a parallel there.Richard_Tyndall said:
Once again showing your utter ignorance of our electoral system.Scott_P said:
Not this tedious bollocks, again.TudorRose said:But your vote won't count until the outcome is enacted.
If you vote in a GE and no Government is formed, you vote again.
Your vote counted. It wasn't enacted.
Democracy survives to vote another day...
We do not vote for a Government, we vote for an individual MP. The correct analogy is for an MP to be elected by their constituents and then Parliament deciding that they cannot take their seat and we have to vote again until we choose the person Parliament want0 -
Top of the league though 👏Anabobazina said:
That’s my sense. It’s a sad state of affairs in what is/was one of the world’s great football clubs.Theuniondivvie said:
Still plenty of non sectarian Rangers fans (including indy supporters), it's just that the Union Bear and Ultra types have got very, very noisy, not without tacit encouragement from the club it has to be said.Anabobazina said:
Yeah, I’ve got a close friend who is Rangers, and a proud Scot. He seems to be unusual nowadays, as the club has been overtaken by NI loyalist bigots. Amazing to think that they were once considered to be ‘Scotland’s Team’.Theuniondivvie said:
SnipTGOHF2 said:
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fansWulfrun_Phil said:
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?Gabs2 said:
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?Wulfrun_Phil said:
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?Gabs2 said:
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.Time_to_Leave said:
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the onerequires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.Gabs2 said:
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.Byronic said:
Do you realise how mad this sounds?Yorkcity said:
AgreedMikeSmithson said:Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
But time will tell.
(c) metropolitan elite0 -
"British family detained after 'accidentally' crossing the US border
The family claim they have been mistreated in detention and have been subjected to "frigid" temperatures.
A British family have been detained after they accidentally crossed into the US while trying to avoid hitting an animal on the road.
David Connors, 30, his wife Eileen, 24, and their three-month-old son claim they took a wrong turn as they were driving across the US-Canada border near Vancouver during a family holiday on 3 October."
https://news.sky.com/story/british-family-detained-after-accidentally-crossing-the-us-border-118364920 -
Yes, there and the London Boat Show (RIP). South Stack is good, I'll give you that.nichomar said:
It used to be one of the few places in GB that you had ‘real’ Guinness but south stack is dramatic. Apparently there have been no preparations in Holyhead for a border in the Irish Sea.El_Capitano said:
I doubt life's ever easy in Holyhead. It's a bit of a grim place.nichomar said:0 -
If the deal is agreed they will have a transistion periodnichomar said:
It used to be one of the few places in GB that you had ‘real’ Guinness but south stack is dramatic. Apparently there have been no preparations in Holyhead for a border in the Irish Sea.El_Capitano said:
I doubt life's ever easy in Holyhead. It's a bit of a grim place.nichomar said:0 -
Thread on Lab leadership. Figures are from July, but still interesting.
https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/11841127176547041280 -
Yes hypocrites. They have so much invested in Bozo as the new Churchill that they’re desperate to vote for anything .ydoethur said:.So if this is true, Boris Johnson is proposing a less good deal than that of May, which splits the UK internally...
...and the ERG lap it up?
What a bunch of third rate morons. Like Corbyn only a bit poorer.
It maybe a turd but its Bozos turd!0 -
McDonnell would win?
That must be incredibly tempting for him. But then there is the woman leader issue.
0 -
The difference is that there's a FTA at the end of it where-as May wanted to keep as closely aligned as possible.ydoethur said:.So if this is true, Boris Johnson is proposing a less good deal than that of May, which splits the UK internally...
...and the ERG lap it up?
What a bunch of third rate morons. Like Corbyn only a bit poorer.
ERG will accept pretty much anything if it means they get their Canda+++ deal with the EU.
For NI it's an amazing arrangement. They get the benefit of staying in SM and CU as well as the benefit of the UK FTA with the EU and FTAs with the rest of the world. All backed up by renewal of demorcratic institutions like Stormont.
Hard to see NI ever wanting to give up this privlaged status and leave the UK which is why Arlene might just go for it.0 -
It's so SHINY !!!nico67 said:It maybe a turd but its Bozos turd!
https://twitter.com/hwallop/status/11798185681936588800 -
Easy to do from Vancouver but a real warning to take care near the border.AndyJS said:"British family detained after 'accidentally' crossing the US border
The family claim they have been mistreated in detention and have been subjected to "frigid" temperatures.
A British family have been detained after they accidentally crossed into the US while trying to avoid hitting an animal on the road.
David Connors, 30, his wife Eileen, 24, and their three-month-old son claim they took a wrong turn as they were driving across the US-Canada border near Vancouver during a family holiday on 3 October."
https://news.sky.com/story/british-family-detained-after-accidentally-crossing-the-us-border-11836492
When we visit our son and daughter in law in Vancouver we steer well clear of the Canadian-US border0
This discussion has been closed.