Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Reading the tea leaves, the question arises: will 20 Labour MPs hand Johnson a landslide victory at the next GE ?
The main thing killing the Labour Party right now is Brexit. The Party is standing in the middle of the road and getting hit by cars going both ways. Taking Brexit off the table forces the politics back onto economics, public services and inequality, where the Tories are much, much weaker.
If Johnson really gets this done, he can look forward to 400 Tory MPs at the next GE. Even the ERG will be neutered.
I'm far from sure about that.
If Boris gets the deal done and gets parliament to agree then it is a big achievement. Someone here pointed out that the country didn't rally behind Churchill post ww2. The well known 'very effective' response to Clem.
He will have done well though, and all but the ghasts will accept that. The Queen's Speech was interesting - there was good stuff. It's what's there that'll probably count most.
Labour, as exemplared by the wibbling Kinnock Jnr on the BBC at the moment have been total fuckwits in all of this.
Labour could have condemned the country to the May deal, with all the Tory infighting that would have caused. All they had to do was abstain.
Fuckwittery has been added to hypocrisy as a core Labour skill.
Really reliable unbiased source then, can she tell us what the deal is rather than spout shit?
It’s an astonishing claim and totally implausible.
Does anyone really believe Nadine Dorries is on speaking terms with any Labour MPs?
However, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was right. When Labour reject heir own proposals as meaningless drivel you know all they care about is themselves, as befits a bunch of third rate fat cat stooges who got here by family wealth and contacts.
It’s the spin which destroys her comment if she had just said ‘I hear labour MPs will be whipped’ To oppose a deal that we don’t even know what it is just silly.
What is this wonderful deal that people are coalescing around? It is a disgrace that anybody signs up for a deal which is worse than the one we currently have. Supporting any deal just to get it over is insane and close to criminal.
Reading the tea leaves, the question arises: will 20 Labour MPs hand Johnson a landslide victory at the next GE ?
The main thing killing the Labour Party right now is Brexit. The Party is standing in the middle of the road and getting hit by cars going both ways. Taking Brexit off the table forces the politics back onto economics, public services and inequality, where the Tories are much, much weaker.
If Johnson really gets this done, he can look forward to 400 Tory MPs at the next GE. Even the ERG will be neutered.
I'm far from sure about that.
If Boris gets the deal done and gets parliament to agree then it is a big achievement. Someone here pointed out that the country didn't rally behind Churchill post ww2. The well known 'very effective' response to Clem.
He will have done well though, and all but the ghasts will accept that. The Queen's Speech was interesting - there was good stuff. It's what's there that'll probably count most.
Labour, as exemplared by the wibbling Kinnock Jnr on the BBC at the moment have been total fuckwits in all of this.
Labour could have condemned the country to the May deal, with all the Tory infighting that would have caused. All they had to do was abstain.
Fuckwittery has been added to hypocrisy as a core Labour skill.
So tell me what’s so good about Johnson’s deal then?
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Yes. There is a perfectly sane route to EU membership for the UK. It's called Rejoin.
We exit, we don't like it, the next Labour/LD govt promises a new vote. They win.
We could be back in, inside less than a decade, with no terminal and horrible damage done to UK democracy.
Failing to leave would be catastrophic for our democracy.
I've heard so much about "our democracy" on this site over the last few years. I'm hoping that when this Brexit stuff is over we might actually get one of these democracy things. You know, with votes that actually count no matter where you live.
Like the EU referendum ?
Yep, not going to disagree with that. Even if I wasn't happy with the result, it was good to have a national election where my vote counted for once.
Really reliable unbiased source then, can she tell us what the deal is rather than spout shit?
It’s an astonishing claim and totally implausible.
Does anyone really believe Nadine Dorries is on speaking terms with any Labour MPs?
However, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was right. When Labour reject heir own proposals as meaningless drivel you know all they care about is themselves, as befits a bunch of third rate fat cat stooges who got here by family wealth and contacts.
MPs of different parties talk to each other all the time. Apparently a lot of them prefer chatting to members from other parties compared to their own.
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
Interesting . Apparently because the Benn Act connects with Article 50 the full legal text has to be voted on . So if the government puts forward just an outline deal then Johnson can not get round the Benn Act .
Reading the tea leaves, the question arises: will 20 Labour MPs hand Johnson a landslide victory at the next GE ?
Two questions:
(i) If 20 Labour MPs help the deal over the line, who will be able to force a GE and when will they be able to do this?
(ii) If Mr Johnson is being perceived by many to have sacrificed NI to neverending vassaldom, will he really win in a landslide?
On (ii), we can be sure that those PBers previously screeching about the vile surrender of NI sovereignty to the foreigns are ready to do a volte-face; they can smell their precious. The question is whither they goest, will the weary masses go?
There was a brief piece on the news about the hate crime figures released today, and one of the headline numbers they mentioned was that about half of all religious hate crimes were targeted at Muslims. This piqued my interest because I was surprised that only half of all religious hate crime was targeted at Muslims, so I had a look at the figures to find out more.
47% of offences target Muslims, 18% Jews and 17% are Unknown (which seems problematic when deciding whether an offence is committed, but helps to explain why the Muslim proportion is lower than I expected).
The difference between 47% targeting Muslims and 18% targeting Jews is interesting when you compare to their relative proportion of the UK population, which was 4.4% and 0.4% respectively in the 2011 census. This means that Jews are more than four times as likely to be the target of religious hate crime than Muslims, when you correct for their relative population - something missed by the superficial BBC report (or my superficial listening to it while I washed the dishes).
Reading the tea leaves, the question arises: will 20 Labour MPs hand Johnson a landslide victory at the next GE ?
Two questions:
(i) If 20 Labour MPs help the deal over the line, who will be able to force a GE and when will they be able to do this?
(ii) If Mr Johnson is being perceived by many to have sacrificed NI to neverending vassaldom, will he really win in a landslide?
On (ii), we can be sure that those PBers previously screeching about the vile surrender of NI sovereignty to the foreigns are ready to do a volte-face; they can smell their precious. The question is whither they goest, will the weary masses go?
I seem to recall a poster who claimed the backstop was immoral because NI had to take EU rules without having MEPs how is the new much trailed, apparently, deal any different?
Does anyone have a link to the tape of Wee Nicola’s full speech? I have heard it’s impressive and would like to watch it. Whatever you think of her politics, Sturgeon is a class act - a seriously able politician.
Really reliable unbiased source then, can she tell us what the deal is rather than spout shit?
It’s an astonishing claim and totally implausible.
Does anyone really believe Nadine Dorries is on speaking terms with any Labour MPs?
However, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was right. When Labour reject heir own proposals as meaningless drivel you know all they care about is themselves, as befits a bunch of third rate fat cat stooges who got here by family wealth and contacts.
MPs of different parties talk to each other all the time. Apparently a lot of them prefer chatting to members from other parties compared to their own.
Yes, I do know that.
You do know we are talking about Nadine Dorries here?
Honestly, it’s as plausible as finding that Laura Pidcock’s baby was the secret love child of Dominic Raab.
Really reliable unbiased source then, can she tell us what the deal is rather than spout shit?
It’s an astonishing claim and totally implausible.
Does anyone really believe Nadine Dorries is on speaking terms with any Labour MPs?
However, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was right. When Labour reject heir own proposals as meaningless drivel you know all they care about is themselves, as befits a bunch of third rate fat cat stooges who got here by family wealth and contacts.
MPs of different parties talk to each other all the time. Apparently a lot of them prefer chatting to members from other parties compared to their own.
Really reliable unbiased source then, can she tell us what the deal is rather than spout shit?
It’s an astonishing claim and totally implausible.
Does anyone really believe Nadine Dorries is on speaking terms with any Labour MPs?
However, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was right. When Labour reject heir own proposals as meaningless drivel you know all they care about is themselves, as befits a bunch of third rate fat cat stooges who got here by family wealth and contacts.
It’s the spin which destroys her comment if she had just said ‘I hear labour MPs will be whipped’ To oppose a deal that we don’t even know what it is just silly.
Indeed. If you change it to "regardless of how bad it is for the country" it puts the situation in its proper perspective.
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
(c) metropolitan elite
Not all Rangers fans are sectarian Prod bigots but all sectarian Prod bigots are Rangers fans.
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.
The big point to note here is not to confuse your Dominic Raabs and Jacob Rees-Moggs with your Steve Bakers and Owen Patersons. There is a false belief among some commentators that plenty of the final 28 holdouts are in government. They aren't: Priti Patel, Theresa Villiers, Julian Lewis (who I previously overlooked) and James Duddridge are the only ones who are. Some of the people touted as hardliners are not.
A very good point, and why no votes from that direction can be taken for granted until they have already passed through the Division Lobby.
Does anyone have a link to the tape of Wee Nicola’s full speech? I have heard it’s impressive and would like to watch it. Whatever you think of her politics, Sturgeon is a class act - a seriously able politician.
I thought that on Sunday watching her interview, she answered questions directly and didn’t try to dodge issues, I don’t agree with her but she is clearly better than some south or west of the the border.
Does anyone have a link to the tape of Wee Nicola’s full speech? I have heard it’s impressive and would like to watch it. Whatever you think of her politics, Sturgeon is a class act - a seriously able politician.
I thought that on Sunday watching her interview, she answered questions directly and didn’t try to dodge issues, I don’t agree with her but she is clearly better than some south or west of the the border.
TBF, saying she’s better than Johnson or Corbyn is like saying somebody was more sober than Boris Yeltsin.
The big point to note here is not to confuse your Dominic Raabs and Jacob Rees-Moggs with your Steve Bakers and Owen Patersons. There is a false belief among some commentators that plenty of the final 28 holdouts are in government. They aren't: Priti Patel, Theresa Villiers, Julian Lewis (who I previously overlooked) and James Duddridge are the only ones who are. Some of the people touted as hardliners are not.
A very good point, and why no votes from that direction can be taken for granted until they have already passed through the Division Lobby.
The Meeks almost invariably makes very good points...unlike some other others on this site
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
(c) metropolitan elite
Actually, at least in the Premier League, football fans are now very woke. Racist, homophobic, sexist even fattist comments are now pretty rare, and usually suppressed by fellow fans.
At a recent match Leicester City distributed pride flags and t shirts (the pride festival was on Vicky Park a mile away from the ground, and a lot of supporters headed there afterwards). A few rows in front of me, a woman who wears a headscarf in the Bengali style and her two daughters were happily showing these off. I seemed to be the only one around who even thought it noteworthy. My surrounding supporters in the East stand didn't even notice, when a few decades ago it would have provoked a lot of aggro.
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.
Agree entirely. Feck em. Can see this shitty deal getting through with the help of Kinnock and his turn coats. All I hope is that when this turns into the inevitable disaster Johnson and his cronies will own it.
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
(c) metropolitan elite
Not all Rangers fans are sectarian Prod bigots but all sectarian Prod bigots are Rangers fans.
Yeah, I’ve got a close friend who is Rangers, and a proud Scot. He seems to be unusual nowadays, as the club has been overtaken by NI loyalist bigots. Amazing to think that they were once considered to be ‘Scotland’s Team’.
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Yes. There is a perfectly sane route to EU membership for the UK. It's called Rejoin.
We exit, we don't like it, the next Labour/LD govt promises a new vote. They win.
We could be back in, inside less than a decade, with no terminal and horrible damage done to UK democracy.
Failing to leave would be catastrophic for our democracy.
I've heard so much about "our democracy" on this site over the last few years. I'm hoping that when this Brexit stuff is over we might actually get one of these democracy things. You know, with votes that actually count no matter where you live.
Like the EU referendum ?
Yep, not going to disagree with that. Even if I wasn't happy with the result, it was good to have a national election where my vote counted for once.
But your vote won't count until the outcome is enacted. Any refusal to undertake the outcome of the referendum is disrespectful to everyone who voted, whether leave or remain. Only those who stayed at home can be satisfied they made the right decision.
Really reliable unbiased source then, can she tell us what the deal is rather than spout shit?
It’s an astonishing claim and totally implausible.
Does anyone really believe Nadine Dorries is on speaking terms with any Labour MPs?
However, it wouldn’t surprise me if she was right. When Labour reject heir own proposals as meaningless drivel you know all they care about is themselves, as befits a bunch of third rate fat cat stooges who got here by family wealth and contacts.
MPs of different parties talk to each other all the time. Apparently a lot of them prefer chatting to members from other parties compared to their own.
The old joke about opponents and enemies.
👍still as true today - in all areas of business, not just politics.
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
(c) metropolitan elite
Actually, at least in the Premier League, football fans are now very woke. Racist, homophobic, sexist even fattist comments are now pretty rare, and usually suppressed by fellow fans.
At a recent match Leicester City distributed pride flags and t shirts (the pride festival was on Vicky Park a mile away from the ground, and a lot of supporters headed there afterwards). A few rows in front of me, a woman who wears a headscarf in the Bengali style and her two daughters were happily showing these off. I seemed to be the only one around who even thought it noteworthy. My surrounding supporters in the East stand didn't even notice, when a few decades ago it would have provoked a lot of aggro.
I would miss the ‘who ate all the pies’ chant though!
Anyone able to tell us how long the transition is in their wonderful deal? I think it’s still 31/21/2020 so we now have 14 months to negotiate the next stage, over.... it hasn’t even begun.
Presumably this from p206 of the WA is still there …..
------------ ARTICLE 132 Extension of the transition period 1. Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single decision extending the transition period for up to one or two years. ------------
Always pretty much certain that was going to be taken up, and now even more so.
Anyone able to tell us how long the transition is in their wonderful deal? I think it’s still 31/21/2020 so we now have 14 months to negotiate the next stage, over.... it hasn’t even begun.
Page 206 of the WA:
------------ ARTICLE 132 Extension of the transition period 1. Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single decision extending the transition period for up to one or two years. ------------
Always pretty much certain that was going to be taken up, and now even more so.
What does "up to one or two years" mean? Surely "up to two" would be sufficient.
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
I think we are all tempted to think others see the world through our own prism. On that basis, I may Be wrong, but I don’t think you’re describing the views of plumbing apprentices, car mechanics, junior soldiers, or my local hairdressers. I don’t think most of those “ younger Brits” feel particularly European. I don’t disagree there’s a group who feel as you suggest; but I think it’s a subset. I think most won’t want to think about Europe again for a long time.
You will increasingly find Lithuanians and Romanians work side by side with young working class Brits in those barber shops and garages. I hear more and more Poles displaying features of cockney accents. Eastern Europeans are integrating into the British working class, just as Afro-Caribbean people did before them. They will intermingle and intermarry and increasingly have in-laws from Tallinn and Naples.
Whether the deal, should one be agreed, is good or not, the EU will have agreed in principle to it - unless we think the EU are all racist liars too, I don't know that Johnson's qualities matter all that much on this question, although the issue of whether it keeps him in place longer will be of concern of course.
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Yes. There is a perfectly sane route to EU membership for the UK. It's called Rejoin.
We exit, we don't like it, the next Labour/LD govt promises a new vote. They win.
We could be back in, inside less than a decade, with no terminal and horrible damage done to UK democracy.
Failing to leave would be catastrophic for our democracy.
I've heard so much about "our democracy" on this site over the last few years. I'm hoping that when this Brexit stuff is over we might actually get one of these democracy things. You know, with votes that actually count no matter where you live.
Like the EU referendum ?
Yep, not going to disagree with that. Even if I wasn't happy with the result, it was good to have a national election where my vote counted for once.
But your vote won't count until the outcome is enacted. Any refusal to undertake the outcome of the referendum is disrespectful to everyone who voted, whether leave or remain. Only those who stayed at home can be satisfied they made the right decision.
Thanks for that observation which I have never* heard before on this site.
It seems like Johnson is following the Nixon to China strategy of agreeing to a deal that goes further towards the EU's demands than the one he voted against twice a few months ago. Can he bring the ultra-Leavers with him? He will have to I think, because his strategy seems to be to tilt towards a more Tory favourable PD, which will limit Labour support. All a long way from dyimg in a ditch, somewhat unsurprisingly.
If that is what is happening we shall certainly see if the claims he is a better salesman than May are true.
Anyone able to tell us how long the transition is in their wonderful deal? I think it’s still 31/21/2020 so we now have 14 months to negotiate the next stage, over.... it hasn’t even begun.
Page 206 of the WA:
------------ ARTICLE 132 Extension of the transition period 1. Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single decision extending the transition period for up to one or two years. ------------
Always pretty much certain that was going to be taken up, and now even more so.
What does "up to one or two years" mean? Surely "up to two" would be sufficient.
Cheers I have wondered about that for a while so it looks like seven years in transition then which would suit me fine.
Interesting . Apparently because the Benn Act connects with Article 50 the full legal text has to be voted on . So if the government puts forward just an outline deal then Johnson can not get round the Benn Act .
If a deal that could go through is close, you’d think the EU would cooperate with Boris on the choreography (delay answering or offer 2 weeks). It’s not clear to me why they wouldn’t want this boil lanced.
Of course if it isn’t really close or Boris seems evasive, then a six month extension seems likely.
Anyone able to tell us how long the transition is in their wonderful deal? I think it’s still 31/21/2020 so we now have 14 months to negotiate the next stage, over.... it hasn’t even begun.
Page 206 of the WA:
------------ ARTICLE 132 Extension of the transition period 1. Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single decision extending the transition period for up to one or two years. ------------
Always pretty much certain that was going to be taken up, and now even more so.
What does "up to one or two years" mean? Surely "up to two" would be sufficient.
Cheers I have wondered about that for a while so it looks like seven years in transition then which would suit me fine.
I’ve wondered that. It struck me that the implication is it must be complete years for budgetary reasons. “Up to” might be vague.
Reading the tea leaves, the question arises: will 20 Labour MPs hand Johnson a landslide victory at the next GE ?
The main thing killing the Labour Party right now is Brexit. The Party is standing in the middle of the road and getting hit by cars going both ways. Taking Brexit off the table forces the politics back onto economics, public services and inequality, where the Tories are much, much weaker.
If Johnson really gets this done, he can look forward to 400 Tory MPs at the next GE. Even the ERG will be neutered.
I'm far from sure about that.
If Boris gets the deal done and gets parliament to agree then it is a big achievement. Someone here pointed out that the country didn't rally behind Churchill post ww2. The well known 'very effective' response to Clem.
He will have done well though, and all but the ghasts will accept that. The Queen's Speech was interesting - there was good stuff. It's what's there that'll probably count most.
Labour, as exemplared by the wibbling Kinnock Jnr on the BBC at the moment have been total fuckwits in all of this.
Labour could have condemned the country to the May deal, with all the Tory infighting that would have caused. All they had to do was abstain.
Fuckwittery has been added to hypocrisy as a core Labour skill.
So tell me what’s so good about Johnson’s deal then?
When we know what it is, we'll tell you.
But on past form, Labour will fuck up the politics of handling their response.
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
(c) metropolitan elite
Clearly not true.
Well, no. Donald Trump’s a golfer for a start.
No he's not. Golfers worthy of the name don't cheat and don't lie about their handicaps.
Interesting . Apparently because the Benn Act connects with Article 50 the full legal text has to be voted on . So if the government puts forward just an outline deal then Johnson can not get round the Benn Act .
If a deal that could go through is close, you’d think the EU would cooperate with Boris on the choreography (delay answering or offer 2 weeks). It’s not clear to me why they wouldn’t want this boil lanced.
Of course if it isn’t really close or Boris seems evasive, then a six month extension seems likely.
If it’s close they will literally stop the clock to give it a chance to go through and will allow leeway. If it’s not they wont
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.
Party before country eh Tyson
Classy as always
Only following the example of the Torys for eternity
Interesting . Apparently because the Benn Act connects with Article 50 the full legal text has to be voted on . So if the government puts forward just an outline deal then Johnson can not get round the Benn Act .
If a deal that could go through is close, you’d think the EU would cooperate with Boris on the choreography (delay answering or offer 2 weeks). It’s not clear to me why they wouldn’t want this boil lanced.
Of course if it isn’t really close or Boris seems evasive, then a six month extension seems likely.
If it’s close they will literally stop the clock to give it a chance to go through and will allow leeway. If it’s not they wont
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.
Party before country eh Tyson
Classy as always
So no different to the Tories then who brought on this shitshow because of their EU psycho drama . Let’s be blunt would the Tories be voting for a Labour Brexit deal .
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
(c) metropolitan elite
Not all Rangers fans are sectarian Prod bigots but all sectarian Prod bigots are Rangers fans.
Yeah, I’ve got a close friend who is Rangers, and a proud Scot. He seems to be unusual nowadays, as the club has been overtaken by NI loyalist bigots. Amazing to think that they were once considered to be ‘Scotland’s Team’.
Still plenty of non sectarian Rangers fans (including indy supporters), it's just that the Union Bear and Ultra types have got very, very noisy, not without tacit encouragement from the club it has to be said.
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.
Party before country eh Tyson
Classy as always
So no different to the Tories then who brought on this shitshow because of their EU psycho drama . Let’s be blunt would the Tories be voting for a Labour Brexit deal .
Probably, if it did what it said on the tin and got the UK out of the EU. The objection from Labour benches isn't that it is a Tory Brexit, it is that it is a Brexit of any kind.
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
(c) metropolitan elite
Clearly not true.
Well, no. Donald Trump’s a golfer for a start.
No he's not. Golfers worthy of the name don't cheat and don't lie about their handicaps.
Interesting . Apparently because the Benn Act connects with Article 50 the full legal text has to be voted on . So if the government puts forward just an outline deal then Johnson can not get round the Benn Act .
If a deal that could go through is close, you’d think the EU would cooperate with Boris on the choreography (delay answering or offer 2 weeks). It’s not clear to me why they wouldn’t want this boil lanced.
Of course if it isn’t really close or Boris seems evasive, then a six month extension seems likely.
If it’s close they will literally stop the clock to give it a chance to go through and will allow leeway. If it’s not they wont
Can we stop the clock on Benn too?
An interesting point but I think they could hold the response to the ‘benn’ request could be held in abeyance. The one thing that has come out of this shit is that ‘some’ people, a precious few have had to learn about UK constitutional and parliamentary practice. I’ve found it fascinating but most people think I’ve gone stark raving bonkers! there are many one here who have gone the same way.
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.
Party before country eh Tyson
Classy as always
So no different to the Tories then who brought on this shitshow because of their EU psycho drama . Let’s be blunt would the Tories be voting for a Labour Brexit deal .
The vast bulk of them? No.
Despite it provoking an amount of party fracturing, with the Tiggers and the expulsions and various random defections to independent, Brexit has actually shown just how strong party loyalty can be, as people risk outcomes they probably thought they never would even consider, u-turn on major issues, in order to stick with the party.
Does anyone have a link to the tape of Wee Nicola’s full speech? I have heard it’s impressive and would like to watch it. Whatever you think of her politics, Sturgeon is a class act - a seriously able politician.
Interesting . Apparently because the Benn Act connects with Article 50 the full legal text has to be voted on . So if the government puts forward just an outline deal then Johnson can not get round the Benn Act .
If a deal that could go through is close, you’d think the EU would cooperate with Boris on the choreography (delay answering or offer 2 weeks). It’s not clear to me why they wouldn’t want this boil lanced.
Of course if it isn’t really close or Boris seems evasive, then a six month extension seems likely.
If it’s close they will literally stop the clock to give it a chance to go through and will allow leeway. If it’s not they wont
Can we stop the clock on Benn too?
I wonder what Tony Benn would have made of the Benn act?
There's merit is some ways, but I think there's also an element of the cheap shot in others.
I disagreed with so much Tony Benn said, but I always listened - he said interesting things, and he wrote interesting things.
They're different, and it's unfair to judge one by anothers standards, nonetheless I think Hilary isn't shining.
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
(c) metropolitan elite
Not all Rangers fans are sectarian Prod bigots but all sectarian Prod bigots are Rangers fans.
Yeah, I’ve got a close friend who is Rangers, and a proud Scot. He seems to be unusual nowadays, as the club has been overtaken by NI loyalist bigots. Amazing to think that they were once considered to be ‘Scotland’s Team’.
But your vote won't count until the outcome is enacted.
Not this tedious bollocks, again.
If you vote in a GE and no Government is formed, you vote again.
Your vote counted. It wasn't enacted.
Democracy survives to vote another day...
Once again showing your utter ignorance of our electoral system.
We do not vote for a Government, we vote for an individual MP. The correct analogy is for an MP to be elected by their constituents and then Parliament deciding that they cannot take their seat and we have to vote again until we choose the person Parliament want
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
(c) metropolitan elite
Clearly not true.
Well, no. Donald Trump’s a golfer for a start.
No he's not. Golfers worthy of the name don't cheat and don't lie about their handicaps.
I'm stuck in work and with the firm's filter and news paywalls I'm stuck. What is a good free source on news, specifically the DUP meeting in Downing Street? Laura Ks Twitter is not much help and Bloomberg, Reuters and Reuters UK aren't great.
I'm stuck in work and with the firm's filter and news paywalls I'm stuck. What is a good free source on news, specifically the DUP meeting in Downing Street? Laura Ks Twitter is not much help and Bloomberg, Reuters and Reuters UK aren't great.
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the one today, and argued from (probably) the position of a secure trade deal with the EU that requires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
(c) metropolitan elite
Snip
Yeah, I’ve got a close friend who is Rangers, and a proud Scot. He seems to be unusual nowadays, as the club has been overtaken by NI loyalist bigots. Amazing to think that they were once considered to be ‘Scotland’s Team’.
Still plenty of non sectarian Rangers fans (including indy supporters), it's just that the Union Bear and Ultra types have got very, very noisy, not without tacit encouragement from the club it has to be said.
That’s my sense. It’s a sad state of affairs in what is/was one of the world’s great football clubs.
Does anyone have a link to the tape of Wee Nicola’s full speech? I have heard it’s impressive and would like to watch it. Whatever you think of her politics, Sturgeon is a class act - a seriously able politician.
I'm stuck in work and with the firm's filter and news paywalls I'm stuck. What is a good free source on news, specifically the DUP meeting in Downing Street? Laura Ks Twitter is not much help and Bloomberg, Reuters and Reuters UK aren't great.
Nobody knows - it’s a tunnel.
But remember- Boris ain’t May.
Thank you for the response. I was however hoping for an answer...
Does anyone have a link to the tape of Wee Nicola’s full speech? I have heard it’s impressive and would like to watch it. Whatever you think of her politics, Sturgeon is a class act - a seriously able politician.
Great news , it’s much easier to do customs checks that way and then people in Ireland and NI won’t notice much difference .
At the same time the DUP can go fuck themselves . What’s not to like !
Life could be a bit difficult in Holyhead.
I doubt life's ever easy in Holyhead. It's a bit of a grim place.
It used to be one of the few places in GB that you had ‘real’ Guinness but south stack is dramatic. Apparently there have been no preparations in Holyhead for a border in the Irish Sea.
But your vote won't count until the outcome is enacted.
Not this tedious bollocks, again.
If you vote in a GE and no Government is formed, you vote again.
Your vote counted. It wasn't enacted.
Democracy survives to vote another day...
Once again showing your utter ignorance of our electoral system.
We do not vote for a Government, we vote for an individual MP. The correct analogy is for an MP to be elected by their constituents and then Parliament deciding that they cannot take their seat and we have to vote again until we choose the person Parliament want
You might find the story of Charles Bradlaugh of interest as a parallel there.
Any deal of course should be subject to a confirmatory referendum.
Agreed
Do you realise how mad this sounds?
We've coming to the end - maybe - of a three year national nightmare. Suddenly there is light at the end of the night.
You really want to start it all over again, with added bile, poison and democracy-cancelling, with ANOTHER crazy, divisive referendum, which sends everyone madder than ever??
This is the famous definition of insanity.
No, if we are lucky enough to get a deal that parliament can accept, then for fuck's sake we all need to seize it, and draw a line, at long last.
Remain lost. And there it is.
Losses are temporary. Demographics are on our side.
Just think about that. Rejoining means a very different proposition to the onerequires none of that. A large chunk of the current remain vote is more of a vote for the status quo/don’t rock the boat vote. I think, if we leave, we’re unlikely to rejoin.
But time will tell.
I disagree. I think this is fundamentally a matter of identity. And younger Brits are far more likely to see themselves as akin to their friends from Poland, Sweden and France. If Brexit Britain turns out to be a slower growing country, pressure will build and build for Rejoin.
And their friends the racists of Bulgaria?
I am a Jewish football fan. Are you trying to convince me we don't have racism among English crowds?
I attend football matches and I am not a racist. Are you saying that I am?
Not all football fans are racist but all racists are football fans
(c) metropolitan elite
Snip
Yeah, I’ve got a close friend who is Rangers, and a proud Scot. He seems to be unusual nowadays, as the club has been overtaken by NI loyalist bigots. Amazing to think that they were once considered to be ‘Scotland’s Team’.
Still plenty of non sectarian Rangers fans (including indy supporters), it's just that the Union Bear and Ultra types have got very, very noisy, not without tacit encouragement from the club it has to be said.
That’s my sense. It’s a sad state of affairs in what is/was one of the world’s great football clubs.
"British family detained after 'accidentally' crossing the US border The family claim they have been mistreated in detention and have been subjected to "frigid" temperatures.
A British family have been detained after they accidentally crossed into the US while trying to avoid hitting an animal on the road. David Connors, 30, his wife Eileen, 24, and their three-month-old son claim they took a wrong turn as they were driving across the US-Canada border near Vancouver during a family holiday on 3 October."
Great news , it’s much easier to do customs checks that way and then people in Ireland and NI won’t notice much difference .
At the same time the DUP can go fuck themselves . What’s not to like !
Life could be a bit difficult in Holyhead.
I doubt life's ever easy in Holyhead. It's a bit of a grim place.
It used to be one of the few places in GB that you had ‘real’ Guinness but south stack is dramatic. Apparently there have been no preparations in Holyhead for a border in the Irish Sea.
Yes, there and the London Boat Show (RIP). South Stack is good, I'll give you that.
Great news , it’s much easier to do customs checks that way and then people in Ireland and NI won’t notice much difference .
At the same time the DUP can go fuck themselves . What’s not to like !
Life could be a bit difficult in Holyhead.
I doubt life's ever easy in Holyhead. It's a bit of a grim place.
It used to be one of the few places in GB that you had ‘real’ Guinness but south stack is dramatic. Apparently there have been no preparations in Holyhead for a border in the Irish Sea.
If the deal is agreed they will have a transistion period
.So if this is true, Boris Johnson is proposing a less good deal than that of May, which splits the UK internally...
...and the ERG lap it up?
What a bunch of third rate morons. Like Corbyn only a bit poorer.
The difference is that there's a FTA at the end of it where-as May wanted to keep as closely aligned as possible.
ERG will accept pretty much anything if it means they get their Canda+++ deal with the EU.
For NI it's an amazing arrangement. They get the benefit of staying in SM and CU as well as the benefit of the UK FTA with the EU and FTAs with the rest of the world. All backed up by renewal of demorcratic institutions like Stormont.
Hard to see NI ever wanting to give up this privlaged status and leave the UK which is why Arlene might just go for it.
"British family detained after 'accidentally' crossing the US border The family claim they have been mistreated in detention and have been subjected to "frigid" temperatures.
A British family have been detained after they accidentally crossed into the US while trying to avoid hitting an animal on the road. David Connors, 30, his wife Eileen, 24, and their three-month-old son claim they took a wrong turn as they were driving across the US-Canada border near Vancouver during a family holiday on 3 October."
Comments
Fuckwittery has been added to hypocrisy as a core Labour skill.
Lib 134
Con 134
NDP 33
BQ 33
Grn 4
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/poll-tracker/canada/
(c) metropolitan elite
47% of offences target Muslims, 18% Jews and 17% are Unknown (which seems problematic when deciding whether an offence is committed, but helps to explain why the Muslim proportion is lower than I expected).
The difference between 47% targeting Muslims and 18% targeting Jews is interesting when you compare to their relative proportion of the UK population, which was 4.4% and 0.4% respectively in the 2011 census. This means that Jews are more than four times as likely to be the target of religious hate crime than Muslims, when you correct for their relative population - something missed by the superficial BBC report (or my superficial listening to it while I washed the dishes).
You do know we are talking about Nadine Dorries here?
Honestly, it’s as plausible as finding that Laura Pidcock’s baby was the secret love child of Dominic Raab.
©Everyone in Scotland who is not The People.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/harry-dunn-crash-dominic-raab-was-cold-and-rude-rsr0qzvr6
Too fucking right...any Labour MP that votes for a Boris Johnson deal should be permanently thrown out of the party- it's not like they don't have other political homes- the Tories, UKIP, Brexit or the BNP- all of these are just fine and dandy for folk who are longing to turn the country into a Neo-liberal, xenophobic, little England cesspit.
At a recent match Leicester City distributed pride flags and t shirts (the pride festival was on Vicky Park a mile away from the ground, and a lot of supporters headed there afterwards). A few rows in front of me, a woman who wears a headscarf in the Bengali style and her two daughters were happily showing these off. I seemed to be the only one around who even thought it noteworthy. My surrounding supporters in the East stand didn't even notice, when a few decades ago it would have provoked a lot of aggro.
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ARTICLE 132
Extension of the transition period
1. Notwithstanding Article 126, the Joint Committee may, before 1 July 2020, adopt a single
decision extending the transition period for up to one or two years.
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Always pretty much certain that was going to be taken up, and now even more so.
* in the last three minutes
Of course if it isn’t really close or Boris seems evasive, then a six month extension seems likely.
Indeed the DUP are so hated by much of the opposition that Bozo should go with .
Vote for the deal and fxck the DUP . I hate Brexit but anything that screws them will help me overcome the trauma of leaving l
If you vote in a GE and no Government is formed, you vote again.
Your vote counted. It wasn't enacted.
Democracy survives to vote another day...
Looks like Arlene is being pushed under the bus...
But on past form, Labour will fuck up the politics of handling their response.
https://twitter.com/ScotlandNT/status/1184179636911120384
Classy as always
At the same time the DUP can go fuck themselves . What’s not to like !
Despite it provoking an amount of party fracturing, with the Tiggers and the expulsions and various random defections to independent, Brexit has actually shown just how strong party loyalty can be, as people risk outcomes they probably thought they never would even consider, u-turn on major issues, in order to stick with the party.
https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1183725776136523776?s=21
There's merit is some ways, but I think there's also an element of the cheap shot in others.
I disagreed with so much Tony Benn said, but I always listened - he said interesting things, and he wrote interesting things.
They're different, and it's unfair to judge one by anothers standards, nonetheless I think Hilary isn't shining.
You don’t have any friends.
We do not vote for a Government, we vote for an individual MP. The correct analogy is for an MP to be elected by their constituents and then Parliament deciding that they cannot take their seat and we have to vote again until we choose the person Parliament want
But remember- Boris ain’t May.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/15/red-poppy-used-remember-civilian-victims-for-first-time
...and the ERG lap it up?
What a bunch of third rate morons. Like Corbyn only a bit poorer.
And the clapping morons lapped it up.
The family claim they have been mistreated in detention and have been subjected to "frigid" temperatures.
A British family have been detained after they accidentally crossed into the US while trying to avoid hitting an animal on the road.
David Connors, 30, his wife Eileen, 24, and their three-month-old son claim they took a wrong turn as they were driving across the US-Canada border near Vancouver during a family holiday on 3 October."
https://news.sky.com/story/british-family-detained-after-accidentally-crossing-the-us-border-11836492
https://twitter.com/theobertram/status/1184112717654704128
It maybe a turd but its Bozos turd!
That must be incredibly tempting for him. But then there is the woman leader issue.
ERG will accept pretty much anything if it means they get their Canda+++ deal with the EU.
For NI it's an amazing arrangement. They get the benefit of staying in SM and CU as well as the benefit of the UK FTA with the EU and FTAs with the rest of the world. All backed up by renewal of demorcratic institutions like Stormont.
Hard to see NI ever wanting to give up this privlaged status and leave the UK which is why Arlene might just go for it.
https://twitter.com/hwallop/status/1179818568193658880
When we visit our son and daughter in law in Vancouver we steer well clear of the Canadian-US border