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Nah the PM thinking he is above the law trumps that.isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
Brexit Shmexit0 -
Cummings must have planned for this. There was always a good chance the supreme court would rule in this way.1
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That brooch of Lady Hale's! The girl can accessorise, I'll give her that!0
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For the last two years pretty well every prediction I've made has turned out to be gloriously and spectacularly wide of the mark. You have serious competition!Roger said:
For once I think you've got this wrong. Support for your man seems to be slipping fast and he's out of the country. Traditionally a good time for a coup.JohnO said:And what will the Supreme Court of Public Opinion make of all this? I suspect not very much and the Tory leads will persist. I think HYUFD is spot on that Johnson will never agree to extend beyond October 31st which makes the government's resignation more than probable (but after October 17th).
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The problem with that argument is the October 31st deadline which makes an election at the moment impossible.AndrewSpencer said:This decision throws the impossible situation in Parliament into strong relief. We have a Government that does not have the confidence of the HoC and yet the HoC will not act to put it out of its misery. The key question now is what is Parliament going to do with the time that the SC has given it? Surely the only reasonable response is to VONC the Government and either call an election or try to find another Government which commands the confidence of the HoC (good luck with that!). What is the purpose and where is the dignity of keeping the Government in a straitjacket for another five weeks and just shouting at it?
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I know this is going against the politically engaged groupthink on here but could this push Boris higher in the polls if people who currently back the Brexit Party think he is being thwarted? What percentage were they on in the last polls?0
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Mr. Foremain, Gove has the benefit of not being a complete ****ing idiot.
The incumbent PM does not.
Go on, Conservatives. Show some teeth. Rid yourself and the nation of a wretched imbecile.0 -
The Queen may determine to use her reserve powers and her personal prerogative to dismiss the Prime Minister.
Of course Her Majesty may be merciful and offer Boris a political pearl handle revolver and the opportunity to resign.
Titter ....0 -
That would be the advisory referendum....?isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
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Farage has other ideas, he is on the attack already sensing weakness in the Tories.Nemtynakht said:I know this is going against the politically engaged groupthink on here but could this push Boris higher in the polls if people who currently back the Brexit Party think he is being thwarted? What percentage were they on in the last polls?
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It's hardly surprising - there are a lot of ways to earn money with far less stress.Martin_Kinsella said:
Who'd have thought the PM after Cameron would be worse than him, or for that matter the PM after Brown being worse than him. They all make Blair and Major look like great statesmen. What a state we are in.StuartDickson said:
Who’d’ve thought the PM after May was going to be even worse than her?TheJezziah said:Geniuses at Joe Politics on it already!
https://twitter.com/PoliticsJOE_UK/status/1176431923100618754
And being a politician in a world of 24 hour news and social media is a lot harder than before the invention of 24 hour news and social media.1 -
People aren't stupid. They can see a load of Remainers in Parliament frustrating Brexit, a load of Remainers in Parliament rejecting an election and now Remainers have won a court case.Scott_P said:
If you want to Leave you need to vote Tory. No Tory majority and Brexit is cancelled.0 -
Maybe in November?Drutt said:PM doesn't have the good grace to resign, LOTO doesn't have the balls to VONC him.
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Yes but this isn't a case about the notice provisions in an immigration appeals service dispute, or anything quite so trifling. The PM is the named party and he's lost and the inner session decision that he'd lied to HMQ stands.Philip_Thompson said:
PMs have always lost court cases. That's why we have courts. I don't remember any resigning due to losing one.Drutt said:PM doesn't have the good grace to resign, LOTO doesn't have the balls to VONC him.
It's a resigning matter, and if it isn't, it'll do until the resigning matter gets here.1 -
Suspect we'll be seeing a lot of this in the next few days
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/24/supreme-court-have-sided-usurping-remainers-people/0 -
Better that he makes it in New York than Wormwood ScrubbsBob__Sykes said:Boris needs to be on the first plane home, PDQ.
Surely he doesn't make his speech to business leaders in NY now?0 -
Mrs C, the referendum was advisory, but all sides agreed beforehand to implement the results and MPs then voted to confirm the result in Parliament.0
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He has wargamed crawling back under the stone he crawled out of?AndyJS said:Cummings must have planned for this. There was always a good chance the supreme court would rule in this way.
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Yes, those ERG spartans have a lot to answer for.isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
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There's the small issue of the guillotine. Though I'm a little queasy about using that word right now.eristdoof said:Prorogue for Queen's speech is lawful.
Prorogue now for Queen's speech in 5 weeks time is unlawful.
The "only a few days" argument is dead because the SC clearly stated that recess is not the same as Prorogue.0 -
She was out of the country when the first round of the leadership vote took place. She went to the opera in Paris. Flew straight back to No. 10 late evening, and summoned her cabinet one by one.Stuartinromford said:Mrs T was out of the country at the crucial point in November 1990, wasn't she?
It was these head-to-heads in No. 10 that I consider to be the "crucial point", when cabinet ministers could not tell her to her face that they would support her.0 -
Agreed. Nothing has changed my prediction Tories will poll 40% by end of next month.Nemtynakht said:I know this is going against the politically engaged groupthink on here but could this push Boris higher in the polls if people who currently back the Brexit Party think he is being thwarted? What percentage were they on in the last polls?
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It’s the truth.MikeSmithson said:
Dream onisam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
Did we vote to leave in 2016?
Have we left?
And now we have a popular politician trying to force through the referendum result denied by faceless lawyers. I know this is a place where faceless lawyers and counter intuitive arguments are worshipped, but it’s not that way in the country as a whole.0 -
Good luck trying to get the Benn bill overturned in the SC.0
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How will Her Majesty get on with Jezza as her PM do you think?JackW said:The Queen may determine to use her reserve powers and her personal prerogative to dismiss the Prime Minister.
Of course Her Majesty may be merciful and offer Boris a political pearl handle revolver and the opportunity to resign.
Titter ....0 -
Yet all the Brexiters here and elsewhere will blame everyone except the ERG...logical_song said:
Yes, those ERG spartans have a lot to answer for.isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
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Hopefully people will now stop quoting Nikki da Costa as if she’s some sort of constitutional genius, which she clearly isn’t.0
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If there was an election when first proposed we could have had a newly elected PM in before the EU summit in mid October.eek said:
The problem with that argument is the October 31st deadline which makes an election at the moment impossible.AndrewSpencer said:This decision throws the impossible situation in Parliament into strong relief. We have a Government that does not have the confidence of the HoC and yet the HoC will not act to put it out of its misery. The key question now is what is Parliament going to do with the time that the SC has given it? Surely the only reasonable response is to VONC the Government and either call an election or try to find another Government which commands the confidence of the HoC (good luck with that!). What is the purpose and where is the dignity of keeping the Government in a straitjacket for another five weeks and just shouting at it?
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What exactly is the “lie”?Drutt said:
Yes but this isn't a case about the notice provisions in an immigration appeals service dispute, or anything quite so trifling. The PM is the named party and he's lost and the inner session decision that he'd lied to HMQ stands.Philip_Thompson said:
PMs have always lost court cases. That's why we have courts. I don't remember any resigning due to losing one.Drutt said:PM doesn't have the good grace to resign, LOTO doesn't have the balls to VONC him.
It's a resigning matter, and if it isn't, it'll do until the resigning matter gets here.
Lady Hale mentioned that the judgement was based on the *effect* of prougation, not the fact of it. One might say that she specifically avoided making a judgement on any specifics related to the conduct of the PM personally.0 -
Bloody horrible.SirNorfolkPassmore said:That brooch of Lady Hale's! The girl can accessorise, I'll give her that!
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Please don't use the phrase "Boris...performed acts..."spudgfsh said:
no, but he acts were not considered unlawful, she was told what the state of play was under the law. in this case BJ has been found to have performed acts which are unlawful.Philip_Thompson said:
Did May resign after she lost in the Supreme Court?Fenman said:
Every Prime minister up until now would have resigned in similar circumstances.KentRising said:
If he's not going to resign, and Corbyn and Co aren't going to call a VONC, why should he do anything other than just carry on?Bob__Sykes said:Boris needs to be on the first plane home, PDQ.
Surely he doesn't make his speech to business leaders in NY now?0 -
The can also see that the PM is a total Arschloch.Philip_Thompson said:
People aren't stupid. They can see a load of Remainers in Parliament frustrating Brexit, a load of Remainers in Parliament rejecting an election and now Remainers have won a court case.Scott_P said:
If you want to Leave you need to vote Tory. No Tory majority and Brexit is cancelled.
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It does rather suggest there was some truth in the belief that the Tory Party Membership was heavily infiltrated by UKIPpers.StuartDickson said:
The big giveaway was that so many Torys thought he’d be shit. They’re the one who knew him best.Morris_Dancer said:One is shocked that a man a lot of people thought would be shit at being PM is, in fact, shit at being PM.
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Do you support this party of demagoges charlatans and lies just to get your precious Brexit?Philip_Thompson said:
Moot. There has to be one eventually and when it comes both Parliament and Courts have shown that if you want Brexit you must vote Tory.Danny565 said:
But, as we saw a couple of weeks ago, he doesn't currently have a majority in Parliament to impose his choice of a date for election.Philip_Thompson said:
What matters is the next election.Scott_P said:
Boris has shown conclusively that he needs a majority in the next election or there will be no Brexit.
Does the end really justifiy the means?0 -
It is not the fact that he lost in court that ought to dish him.Philip_Thompson said:
Did May resign after she lost in the Supreme Court?Fenman said:
Every Prime minister up until now would have resigned in similar circumstances.KentRising said:
If he's not going to resign, and Corbyn and Co aren't going to call a VONC, why should he do anything other than just carry on?Bob__Sykes said:Boris needs to be on the first plane home, PDQ.
Surely he doesn't make his speech to business leaders in NY now?
Rather it is the inferences anyone with a spark of intelligence can draw from the judgment.
It's not even that the courts rules prorogation not legal, so much as the way in which they utterly demolished the ex post facto political justifications offered for the prorogation.
It is not the court case which should bring down the government, but rather the realisation of the government's own actions.
Of course we have a LOTO not worth the name, and it is doubtful that Swinson would be allowed to call a VONC even if she tried.0 -
Indeed.Sandpit said:
What exactly is the “lie”?Drutt said:
Yes but this isn't a case about the notice provisions in an immigration appeals service dispute, or anything quite so trifling. The PM is the named party and he's lost and the inner session decision that he'd lied to HMQ stands.Philip_Thompson said:
PMs have always lost court cases. That's why we have courts. I don't remember any resigning due to losing one.Drutt said:PM doesn't have the good grace to resign, LOTO doesn't have the balls to VONC him.
It's a resigning matter, and if it isn't, it'll do until the resigning matter gets here.
Lady Hale mentioned that the judgement was based on the *effect* of prougation, not the fact of it. One might say that she specifically avoided making a judgement on any specifics related to the conduct of the PM personally.0 -
But no guarantee that this is what the PM, who is a proven liar and law-breaker, would have scheduled...Philip_Thompson said:
If there was an election when first proposed we could have had a newly elected PM in before the EU summit in mid October.eek said:
The problem with that argument is the October 31st deadline which makes an election at the moment impossible.AndrewSpencer said:This decision throws the impossible situation in Parliament into strong relief. We have a Government that does not have the confidence of the HoC and yet the HoC will not act to put it out of its misery. The key question now is what is Parliament going to do with the time that the SC has given it? Surely the only reasonable response is to VONC the Government and either call an election or try to find another Government which commands the confidence of the HoC (good luck with that!). What is the purpose and where is the dignity of keeping the Government in a straitjacket for another five weeks and just shouting at it?
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Not this again. The supreme court ruled 11-0 the PM overreached his powers. One of his powers is setting the election date. Why on earth should opponents be expected to trust him on the election date?Philip_Thompson said:
If there was an election when first proposed we could have had a newly elected PM in before the EU summit in mid October.eek said:
The problem with that argument is the October 31st deadline which makes an election at the moment impossible.AndrewSpencer said:This decision throws the impossible situation in Parliament into strong relief. We have a Government that does not have the confidence of the HoC and yet the HoC will not act to put it out of its misery. The key question now is what is Parliament going to do with the time that the SC has given it? Surely the only reasonable response is to VONC the Government and either call an election or try to find another Government which commands the confidence of the HoC (good luck with that!). What is the purpose and where is the dignity of keeping the Government in a straitjacket for another five weeks and just shouting at it?
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ROFLPhilip_Thompson said:
People aren't stupid. They can see a load of Remainers in Parliament frustrating Brexit, a load of Remainers in Parliament rejecting an election and now Remainers have won a court case.Scott_P said:
If you want to Leave you need to vote Tory. No Tory majority and Brexit is cancelled.
one minute the people were stupid and tricked in to voting Leave, the next minute theyre not.
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Ah, it's time for this again:eek said:
Yet all the Brexiters here and elsewhere will blame everyone except the ERG...logical_song said:
Yes, those ERG spartans have a lot to answer for.isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
It's all someone else's fault, screech the Brexiteers.1 -
The ERG didn't vote to extend. The MPs responsible for us not leaving are solely those who voted to extend.eek said:
Yet all the Brexiters here and elsewhere will blame everyone except the ERG...logical_song said:
Yes, those ERG spartans have a lot to answer for.isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
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Except that he got support of about two-thirds of Conservative MPs before the members got a chance to vote.Peter_the_Punter said:
It does rather suggest there was some truth in the belief that the Tory Party Membership was heavily infiltrated by UKIPpers.StuartDickson said:
The big giveaway was that so many Torys thought he’d be shit. They’re the one who knew him best.Morris_Dancer said:One is shocked that a man a lot of people thought would be shit at being PM is, in fact, shit at being PM.
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Chronos ?SirNorfolkPassmore said:That brooch of Lady Hale's! The girl can accessorise, I'll give her that!
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That really would be too much for ERII to do. what I suspect will happen is that someone like Ken Clarke will be asked to be emergency PM in a temporary government. Get extension from EU with the guarantee of a new referendum on TMs deal.JackW said:The Queen may determine to use her reserve powers and her personal prerogative to dismiss the Prime Minister.
Of course Her Majesty may be merciful and offer Boris a political pearl handle revolver and the opportunity to resign.
Titter ....0 -
But surprisingly they don’t want to VONC even though he has nowhere near a majority - strange times.Morris_Dancer said:One is shocked that a man a lot of people thought would be shit at being PM is, in fact, shit at being PM.
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I assume Farage is delighted at the spectacle of the Forces of Remain circling the wagons?
His day as PM marches on apace....0 -
No it's not. The bigger picture is that anyone who voted leave and is surprised that the UK then continued to function as an adversarial parliamentary democracy should not be allowed to vote again.isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
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The clear way out is for the government to force the issue by resigning and throwing the gauntlet down to Parliament to come up with something better if they can.AndrewSpencer said:This decision throws the impossible situation in Parliament into strong relief. We have a Government that does not have the confidence of the HoC and yet the HoC will not act to put it out of its misery. The key question now is what is Parliament going to do with the time that the SC has given it? Surely the only reasonable response is to VONC the Government and either call an election or try to find another Government which commands the confidence of the HoC (good luck with that!). What is the purpose and where is the dignity of keeping the Government in a straitjacket for another five weeks and just shouting at it?
If they can't then we'll have to have an election.0 -
*insert Priti Patel "I want criminals to feel terror" article here*williamglenn said:1 -
Adversarial doesn't usually mean "against the electorate".TOPPING said:
No it's not. The bigger picture is that anyone who voted leave and is surprised that the UK then continued to function as an adversarial parliamentary democracy, should not be allowed to vote again.isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
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Admirably.GIN1138 said:
How will Her Majesty get on with Jezza as her PM do you think?JackW said:The Queen may determine to use her reserve powers and her personal prerogative to dismiss the Prime Minister.
Of course Her Majesty may be merciful and offer Boris a political pearl handle revolver and the opportunity to resign.
Titter ....
The Queen will do her duty as Sovereign as she has done from the moment her father died in 1952.0 -
The ERG did vote against May's Brexit. You cannot claim otherwise.Philip_Thompson said:
The ERG didn't vote to extend. The MPs responsible for us not leaving are solely those who voted to extend.eek said:
Yet all the Brexiters here and elsewhere will blame everyone except the ERG...logical_song said:
Yes, those ERG spartans have a lot to answer for.isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
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I think it's entirely possible. Doesn't change the fact that this is a PM and Government that will live on in infamy for the damage it has done to British institutions - to democracy, the rule of law, and the position of the monarch. Regardless of what the next YouGov says, Johnson's place in history is secure.Nemtynakht said:I know this is going against the politically engaged groupthink on here but could this push Boris higher in the polls if people who currently back the Brexit Party think he is being thwarted? What percentage were they on in the last polls?
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Even worse the implication is that "Boris Performed acts with the queen".TOPPING said:
Please don't use the phrase "Boris...performed acts..."spudgfsh said:
no, but he acts were not considered unlawful, she was told what the state of play was under the law. in this case BJ has been found to have performed acts which are unlawful.Philip_Thompson said:
Did May resign after she lost in the Supreme Court?Fenman said:
Every Prime minister up until now would have resigned in similar circumstances.KentRising said:
If he's not going to resign, and Corbyn and Co aren't going to call a VONC, why should he do anything other than just carry on?Bob__Sykes said:Boris needs to be on the first plane home, PDQ.
Surely he doesn't make his speech to business leaders in NY now?0 -
Remember Boris also faces Jennifer Arcuri-gate *innocent face*0
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No and no. I support them for reasons above and beyond Brexit.Beibheirli_C said:
Do you support this party of demagoges charlatans and lies just to get your precious Brexit?Philip_Thompson said:
Moot. There has to be one eventually and when it comes both Parliament and Courts have shown that if you want Brexit you must vote Tory.Danny565 said:
But, as we saw a couple of weeks ago, he doesn't currently have a majority in Parliament to impose his choice of a date for election.Philip_Thompson said:
What matters is the next election.Scott_P said:
Boris has shown conclusively that he needs a majority in the next election or there will be no Brexit.
Does the end really justifiy the means?0 -
Belief? Shome mishtake shurely? I thought it was an established fact. Today's Tory paty is very different from that of even 10 years ago. As for comparisons from 20 or 30 years ago...Peter_the_Punter said:
It does rather suggest there was some truth in the belief that the Tory Party Membership was heavily infiltrated by UKIPpers.StuartDickson said:
The big giveaway was that so many Torys thought he’d be shit. They’re the one who knew him best.Morris_Dancer said:One is shocked that a man a lot of people thought would be shit at being PM is, in fact, shit at being PM.
The current Tory party *is* UKIP0 -
If I was Swinson (or Blackford) I would table one, and kindly ask the Speaker to consider hearing it, saying they have the support of the other party and that whilst not convention(!), if the third and fourth largest parties in Parliament support one, at such a crucial time, it should be debated. Bercow would probably call it.Pulpstar said:
Is Corbyn even going to table one though ?AlastairMeeks said:
Imagine you're a Conservative MP (not one of the completely nuts ones) and a vote of no confidence is tabled over the Prime Minister leading the Queen into an unlawful prorogation. Enjoy defending that one in Parliament or voting for him.Scott_P said:
Then roar with laughter as Labour troop through the 'No' lobby the next day.0 -
"We" didn't, though I guess "you" did, along with 52% of people many of whom were told it was going to be easy and were conned on a massive scale . The percentage might well be different now reality has dawned, except you are no doubt still a religious observer of the con trick called Brexit no doubt?isam said:
It’s the truth.MikeSmithson said:
Dream onisam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
Did we vote to leave in 2016?
Have we left?
And now we have a popular politician trying to force through the referendum result denied by faceless lawyers. I know this is a place where faceless lawyers and counter intuitive arguments are worshipped, but it’s not that way in the country as a whole.0 -
Parliament could vote for the date of the election. A one line bill was posted here that would have guaranteed it.edmundintokyo said:
But no guarantee that this is what the PM, who is a proven liar and law-breaker, would have scheduled...Philip_Thompson said:
If there was an election when first proposed we could have had a newly elected PM in before the EU summit in mid October.eek said:
The problem with that argument is the October 31st deadline which makes an election at the moment impossible.AndrewSpencer said:This decision throws the impossible situation in Parliament into strong relief. We have a Government that does not have the confidence of the HoC and yet the HoC will not act to put it out of its misery. The key question now is what is Parliament going to do with the time that the SC has given it? Surely the only reasonable response is to VONC the Government and either call an election or try to find another Government which commands the confidence of the HoC (good luck with that!). What is the purpose and where is the dignity of keeping the Government in a straitjacket for another five weeks and just shouting at it?
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The question for Tory MPs & Johnson is, do they have the stomach for the fight ahead. I reckon a very good result for them can be in prospect in the forthcoming General Election if they do.0
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Yep. Brexiteers are clearly going to have to go the long way round to what what they voted for implemented - which is to vote a majority Brexit Party government into office.MarqueeMark said:I assume Farage is delighted at the spectacle of the Forces of Remain circling the wagons?
His day as PM marches on apace....0 -
I suspect it might be Jeremy Hunt, supported by 21 people who will happily have the whip restored. Minority government that respects parliament maybe?GIN1138 said:
How will Her Majesty get on with Jezza as her PM do you think?JackW said:The Queen may determine to use her reserve powers and her personal prerogative to dismiss the Prime Minister.
Of course Her Majesty may be merciful and offer Boris a political pearl handle revolver and the opportunity to resign.
Titter ....0 -
spudgfsh said:
Even worse the implication is that "Boris Performed acts with the queen".TOPPING said:
Please don't use the phrase "Boris...performed acts..."spudgfsh said:
no, but he acts were not considered unlawful, she was told what the state of play was under the law. in this case BJ has been found to have performed acts which are unlawful.Philip_Thompson said:
Did May resign after she lost in the Supreme Court?Fenman said:
Every Prime minister up until now would have resigned in similar circumstances.KentRising said:
If he's not going to resign, and Corbyn and Co aren't going to call a VONC, why should he do anything other than just carry on?Bob__Sykes said:Boris needs to be on the first plane home, PDQ.
Surely he doesn't make his speech to business leaders in NY now?
They were all done with complete propriety and in the normal way.spudgfsh said:
Even worse the implication is that "Boris Performed acts with the queen".TOPPING said:
Please don't use the phrase "Boris...performed acts..."spudgfsh said:
no, but he acts were not considered unlawful, she was told what the state of play was under the law. in this case BJ has been found to have performed acts which are unlawful.Philip_Thompson said:
Did May resign after she lost in the Supreme Court?Fenman said:
Every Prime minister up until now would have resigned in similar circumstances.KentRising said:
If he's not going to resign, and Corbyn and Co aren't going to call a VONC, why should he do anything other than just carry on?Bob__Sykes said:Boris needs to be on the first plane home, PDQ.
Surely he doesn't make his speech to business leaders in NY now?0 -
‘MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’williamglenn said:
And, yet....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k9fE28koW40 -
Parliament could have voted to enshrine the date in law.noneoftheabove said:
Not this again. The supreme court ruled 11-0 the PM overreached his powers. One of his powers is setting the election date. Why on earth should opponents be expected to trust him on the election date?Philip_Thompson said:
If there was an election when first proposed we could have had a newly elected PM in before the EU summit in mid October.eek said:
The problem with that argument is the October 31st deadline which makes an election at the moment impossible.AndrewSpencer said:This decision throws the impossible situation in Parliament into strong relief. We have a Government that does not have the confidence of the HoC and yet the HoC will not act to put it out of its misery. The key question now is what is Parliament going to do with the time that the SC has given it? Surely the only reasonable response is to VONC the Government and either call an election or try to find another Government which commands the confidence of the HoC (good luck with that!). What is the purpose and where is the dignity of keeping the Government in a straitjacket for another five weeks and just shouting at it?
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It wouldn't surprise me if this is all going to plan as far as Cummings is concerned. People vs the elites. (Not my view incidentally).0
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She and her family might be booted off into exile by Jezza's second term.JackW said:
Admirably.GIN1138 said:
How will Her Majesty get on with Jezza as her PM do you think?JackW said:The Queen may determine to use her reserve powers and her personal prerogative to dismiss the Prime Minister.
Of course Her Majesty may be merciful and offer Boris a political pearl handle revolver and the opportunity to resign.
Titter ....
The Queen will do her duty as Sovereign as she has done from the moment her father died in 1952.
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Queen's Bench must be feeling a little sore - to be over-ruled 11-0. How shit must they be?0
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Without getting into the rights or wrongs of this issue, I would be interested to know what legal advice was given the No10 in the run up to this.
Legal opinions do differ from lawyer to lawyer and from judge to judge - as we have seen over the course of these cases. If the internal legal advice was that a prorogation as proposed was legal, then there was no lie. The fact that other legal minds reached a different conclusion does not mean that there was a lie - just that someone was acting on different legal advice.
It serves none of us any good to keep using the words 'lie' and 'liar' - unless and until we have evidence that No.10 had received advice and wilfully chose to ignore it.
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The only way out of this is an election. The current House of Commons can’t agree on anything or anyone.GIN1138 said:
The clear way out is for the government to force the issue by resigning and throwing the gauntlet down to Parliament to come up with something better if they can.AndrewSpencer said:This decision throws the impossible situation in Parliament into strong relief. We have a Government that does not have the confidence of the HoC and yet the HoC will not act to put it out of its misery. The key question now is what is Parliament going to do with the time that the SC has given it? Surely the only reasonable response is to VONC the Government and either call an election or try to find another Government which commands the confidence of the HoC (good luck with that!). What is the purpose and where is the dignity of keeping the Government in a straitjacket for another five weeks and just shouting at it?
If they can't then we'll have to have an election.
I wonder if the government might even call a vote of confidence in itself to start the ball rolling?0 -
No it doesn't you're right. It means seeking party political advantage at the expense of your opponents. The central premise in the scenario analysis of those who voted Leave should have been a logjam in parliament as the Labour Party would not just not through anything the government suggested. From that point, party politics would have seen one party's vision gain the upper hand at GE2017 but this didn't happen either. All very predictable.Endillion said:
Adversarial doesn't usually mean "against the electorate".TOPPING said:
No it's not. The bigger picture is that anyone who voted leave and is surprised that the UK then continued to function as an adversarial parliamentary democracy, should not be allowed to vote again.isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
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Yes they did. May's Brexit wasn't the only form of Brexit on the table at the time.eristdoof said:
The ERG did vote against May's Brexit. You cannot claim otherwise.Philip_Thompson said:
The ERG didn't vote to extend. The MPs responsible for us not leaving are solely those who voted to extend.eek said:
Yet all the Brexiters here and elsewhere will blame everyone except the ERG...logical_song said:
Yes, those ERG spartans have a lot to answer for.isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
After they rejected May's Deal the law of the land was that we would still leave on a set date. They didn't change that.
ONLY MPs who voted to extend are the reason we are still in.0 -
Got to say I disagree with this view from 'top psychologists'. It reminds me of what a biopsychologist lecturer I had at university said about social psychologists: they blame everything on society.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-49795808
Dancing around on the head of a linguistic pin and abandoned personal responsibility (and therefore personal agency too) is ridiculous. Not to mention the ongoing pathologising of everything under the sun (which was recognised as a problem when I was at university).0 -
“It will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure, or whether we leave.isam said:
‘MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’williamglenn said:
And, yet....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k9fE28koW4
Your decision.
Nobody else’s.
Not politicians’.
Not Parliament’s.
Not lobby groups’.
Not mine.
Just you.
You, the British people, will decide.
At that moment, you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands.
This is a huge decision for our country, perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.
And it will be the final decision.
So to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to leave…
…would merely produce another stronger renegotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain would stay…
…I say think again.
The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice.
An in or out referendum.
When the British people speak, their voice will be respected – not ignored.
If we vote to leave, then we will leave.”
0 -
The bigger picture is actually that no-one is above the law. If we are to remain a democracy, that principle is fundamental. The smaller picture is that delivering a Brexit that did not cause immense harm to the country was always going to be immensely difficult - and that is still the case. Those who claimed otherwise - and are now running the country - would do everyonr a favour is they admitted that and started looking beyond the base for solutions. EFTA/EEA will take us out. That's what shouold happen now.isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
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Much as I disagree with him I think your view of what history will write about Boris will be somewhat different to reality.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
I think it's entirely possible. Doesn't change the fact that this is a PM and Government that will live on in infamy for the damage it has done to British institutions - to democracy, the rule of law, and the position of the monarch. Regardless of what the next YouGov says, Johnson's place in history is secure.Nemtynakht said:I know this is going against the politically engaged groupthink on here but could this push Boris higher in the polls if people who currently back the Brexit Party think he is being thwarted? What percentage were they on in the last polls?
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That would be an acceptable outcome, seems unlikely though. Most likely Boris stays until late October, when Corbyn takes over briefly to extend.Nigel_Foremain said:
I suspect it might be Jeremy Hunt, supported by 21 people who will happily have the whip restored. Minority government that respects parliament maybe?GIN1138 said:
How will Her Majesty get on with Jezza as her PM do you think?JackW said:The Queen may determine to use her reserve powers and her personal prerogative to dismiss the Prime Minister.
Of course Her Majesty may be merciful and offer Boris a political pearl handle revolver and the opportunity to resign.
Titter ....0 -
That's at least the second time you've suggested as much this morning. I wonder when the penny will drop that Cummings is as much a moron as Boris Johnson?AndyJS said:It wouldn't surprise me if this is all going to plan as far as Cummings is concerned. People vs the elites. (Not my view incidentally).
He had one good knock. When he didn't have to relate to people, was fighting the establishment and wasn't accountable to anyone.
He's an idiot.0 -
Has Downing Street said anything yet?
It's unlike them not to have at least a "Downing St source says Lady Hale's an old bag" quote up their sleeve.0 -
I love how Leave fanatics refer to the "establishment" while simultaneously supporting Eton and Oxford educated Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson, with his side kick bench slouching Jacob Rees-Mogg. How much more fecking "establishment" do you get than those two?MikeSmithson said:
Dream onisam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
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Most of them are asleep.Harris_Tweed said:Has Downing Street said anything yet?
It's unlike them not to have at least a "Downing St source says Lady Hale's an old bag" quote up their sleeve.
In New York.0 -
They were following their manifesto commitment not to leave in a disorderly manner.Philip_Thompson said:
Yes they did. May's Brexit wasn't the only form of Brexit on the table at the time.eristdoof said:
The ERG did vote against May's Brexit. You cannot claim otherwise.Philip_Thompson said:
The ERG didn't vote to extend. The MPs responsible for us not leaving are solely those who voted to extend.eek said:
Yet all the Brexiters here and elsewhere will blame everyone except the ERG...logical_song said:
Yes, those ERG spartans have a lot to answer for.isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
After they rejected May's Deal the law of the land was that we would still leave on a set date. They didn't change that.
ONLY MPs who voted to extend are the reason we are still in.0 -
Precisely. The only way we will leave now is it a majority of MPs honour their obligations that they made before the referendum. And the only way that will happen is if leavers vote to give Boris a majority.isam said:
“It will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure, or whether we leave.isam said:
‘MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’williamglenn said:
And, yet....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k9fE28koW4
Your decision.
Nobody else’s.
Not politicians’.
Not Parliament’s.
Not lobby groups’.
Not mine.
Just you.
You, the British people, will decide.
At that moment, you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands.
This is a huge decision for our country, perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.
And it will be the final decision.
So to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to leave…
…would merely produce another stronger renegotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain would stay…
…I say think again.
The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice.
An in or out referendum.
When the British people speak, their voice will be respected – not ignored.
If we vote to leave, then we will leave.”
No Boris majority and Brexit WILL be cancelled.0 -
Bloody Hell. I didn't think they go nuclear. I'm half way through the full judgement and it's beautiful. The Norman Yoke gets a righ kicking.0
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0
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This isn't really going to help Boris hold his seat in Uxbridge, is it?isam said:
‘MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’williamglenn said:
And, yet....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k9fE28koW40 -
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Corbyn next PM drifting from 2.88 to 3.50
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The front page of the pro EU Standard spells it out “‘MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’”... if that’s how George Osborne sees it, how do you think Leave voters will?SouthamObserver said:
The bigger picture is actually that no-one is above the law. If we are to remain a democracy, that principle is fundamental. The smaller picture is that delivering a Brexit that did not cause immense harm to the country was always going to be immensely difficult - and that is still the case. Those who claimed otherwise - and are now running the country - would do everyonr a favour is they admitted that and started looking beyond the base for solutions. EFTA/EEA will take us out. That's what shouold happen now.isam said:
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum resultMikeSmithson said:I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
1 -
We are not allowed to see the legal advice. Even the cabinet is not allowed to see it!oxfordsimon said:Without getting into the rights or wrongs of this issue, I would be interested to know what legal advice was given the No10 in the run up to this.
Legal opinions do differ from lawyer to lawyer and from judge to judge - as we have seen over the course of these cases. If the internal legal advice was that a prorogation as proposed was legal, then there was no lie. The fact that other legal minds reached a different conclusion does not mean that there was a lie - just that someone was acting on different legal advice.
It serves none of us any good to keep using the words 'lie' and 'liar' - unless and until we have evidence that No.10 had received advice and wilfully chose to ignore it.
Surely we have to infer that if the cabinet is not allowed to see it, it was dodgy to start with?0 -
I suspect we still will, so don't wet your knickers. Any uncertainty and delay is fully at the door of the headbanging end of the Brexit debate.isam said:
“It will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure, or whether we leave.isam said:
‘MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’williamglenn said:
And, yet....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k9fE28koW4
Your decision.
Nobody else’s.
Not politicians’.
Not Parliament’s.
Not lobby groups’.
Not mine.
Just you.
You, the British people, will decide.
At that moment, you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands.
This is a huge decision for our country, perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.
And it will be the final decision.
So to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to leave…
…would merely produce another stronger renegotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain would stay…
…I say think again.
The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice.
An in or out referendum.
When the British people speak, their voice will be respected – not ignored.
If we vote to leave, then we will leave.”0 -
Why are you so deferential to Cameron? He was a reckless Prime Minister making promises he couldn’t keep.isam said:
“It will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure, or whether we leave.isam said:
‘MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’williamglenn said:
And, yet....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k9fE28koW4
Your decision.
Nobody else’s.
Not politicians’.
Not Parliament’s.
Not lobby groups’.
Not mine.
Just you.
You, the British people, will decide.
At that moment, you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands.
This is a huge decision for our country, perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.
And it will be the final decision.
So to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to leave…
…would merely produce another stronger renegotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain would stay…
…I say think again.
The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice.
An in or out referendum.
When the British people speak, their voice will be respected – not ignored.
If we vote to leave, then we will leave.”0
