"MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"
No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
They'll face a reckoning, sooner or later.
Ooh what sort of reckoning? A Labour government? Nige as PM? What were you thinking?
A lot of them will be out on their ear, at the next election.
Ah yes I think that will be right but the timing is important. If they are voted out of their ear as Cons then that would leave the way open for LD/Lab so as per my response to @Tabman I'm not sure how many actually will be.
If they resign now, are replaced by Cons PPCs, then it won't matter one way or the other aside from personal loyalty.
"MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"
No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
Your last sentence is at least correct Richard. Those that "rule" us are in the Executive. They have lied to us all, so scum probably is correct. As for the referendum result, the real result (a very narrow win for Leave) has been ignored by those that would have us leave without a deal. An appropriate observance would have been a very soft Brexit to represent the marginal nature of the result. It would be up to those who advocate something more extreme to get such an outcome at a later date. No one has come out of this debacle well.
I get the arguments about a soft Brexit for a narrow leave victory, they do make sense but what would those arguing that say had the result gone the other way. Is there any form of 'soft Remain'? Thus far and no further? Is that really possible in an EU that will continue to legislate in favour of ever closer union (albeit that Cameron negotiated an opt-out from that)?
Well, a 52-48 Remain victory would certainly have meant Britain going into the Euro was completely off the table. Probably would've also put the kibosh on those EU-wide "quotas" for taking in refugees that were all the rage at that time, and probably would've also meant much greater British resistance to new countries joining the EU (including Turkey) than there was in the past.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
"MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"
No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
Your last sentence is at least correct Richard. Those that "rule" us are in the Executive. They have lied to us all, so scum probably is correct. As for the referendum result, the real result (a very narrow win for Leave) has been ignored by those that would have us leave without a deal. An appropriate observance would have been a very soft Brexit to represent the marginal nature of the result. It would be up to those who advocate something more extreme to get such an outcome at a later date. No one has come out of this debacle well.
I get the arguments about a soft Brexit for a narrow leave victory, they do make sense but what would those arguing that say had the result gone the other way. Is there any form of 'soft Remain'? Thus far and no further? Is that really possible in an EU that will continue to legislate in favour of ever closer union (albeit that Cameron negotiated an opt-out from that)?
Soft Remain is what we already had with all sorts of opt-outs and carve-outs that Cameron wanted to consolidate. Cameron's deal was probably the last chance for Euroscepticism in this country.
"MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"
No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
I didn't vote for any of these scum. I know what it makes you.
You didn't vote??
Funniest thing I've heard. You have therefore excluded yourself from any political comment about anything. which given the quality of your contributions would be no great loss.
Or wait - are you wearing your favourite "whoever you vote for the government always gets in" t-shirt?
Nope I voted just not for any of this lot.
I'm looking forward to the next phase where you turn on the British people for being too pathetic to rise up against this Remainer conspiracy.
Given the veiled references to violence and the inflammatory language (even on here this morning) it is more likely to be the far right's fruit-cakes, loons, closet racists teaming up with rabid brexiteers that "rise up" in violence. Gangs of thugs are good fit for fascists.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
But for Cons voters and waverers, Jezza remains the gift that keeps giving, rounding up the maybes back into the Tory fold.
Swinson?
I'm not sure - frankly for I'm guessing the majority of Tory supporters and hitherto voters, everything that is happening at Brighton this week will clarify the threat that they perceive Corbyn represents and hence are likely to be driven back (holding their nose) to the Cons. But yes, Swinson is definitely an outlet valve.
I suppose it depends how much both traditional Labour and Tory voters value competence and reason compared to incompetence and tribalism.
Despite the publicity today's Supreme Court ruling really changes nothing much, the No Deal Bill has already been passed and we are in conference season so Parliament is not going to return straight away.
However what it does suggest is a more political highest court in the form of the Supreme Court rather than the old Law Lords making it likely we do down the US route with the executive and legislature of the day playing a greater role in the appointment of judges.
Bad day for the SNP too as they were hoping the Supreme Court would overrule the Scottish Court of Session
"MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"
No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
Your last sentence is at least correct Richard. Those that "rule" us are in the Executive. They have lied to us all, so scum probably is correct. As for the referendum result, the real result (a very narrow win for Leave) has been ignored by those that would have us leave without a deal. An appropriate observance would have been a very soft Brexit to represent the marginal nature of the result. It would be up to those who advocate something more extreme to get such an outcome at a later date. No one has come out of this debacle well.
I get the arguments about a soft Brexit for a narrow leave victory, they do make sense but what would those arguing that say had the result gone the other way. Is there any form of 'soft Remain'? Thus far and no further? Is that really possible in an EU that will continue to legislate in favour of ever closer union (albeit that Cameron negotiated an opt-out from that)?
Soft remain might look like an opt out from the Euro and ever closer union? Perhaps an emergency brake on immigration whilst we changed our welfare arrangements if we wanted to?
Well, we had the first two after Cameron's renegotiation, though how we could really opt out of ever closer union in anything other than a rhetoric sense is hard to fathom. The EU refused the emergency brake on immigration as it compromised free movement. It could be argued I suppose that the UK has been in a soft remain position since Maastricht with all the problems that has brought. As ever, part of the problem with the whole EU debate is that we keep looking at it solely from a UK perspective. One question we should ask is do the EU really want a UK, which currently looks like a political basket case, to remain?
Those ERG nutters (and the PM and half the current Cabinet) who trashed May's deal, and thus gave Labour a cast-iron excuse for playing partisan games with it, have a hell of a lot to answer for.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
The answer to that question is in the judgment. If you read it, you'd realise that it's not a farce at all.
Can those who disagree with this ruling please argue why they would be in favour of PM Corbyn proroguing parliament for as long as he pleased to allow for something massive to happen, such as not funding the military, as John Major suggested?
It's five weeks, not 5 years! 5 weeks in which Parliament would normally be in recess for conference season, and has already passed the legislation it wanted to!
As the judgment made absolutely clear, prorogation is very different to recess. It also emphasised that Parliament is usually only prorogued for four to six days for a Queen's Speech, not five weeks.
No, it doesn't involve any point of European law, and you don't "appeal" to ECJ, rather there is a reference by the court to the ECJ on a point of European law.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
Despite the publicity today's Supreme Court ruling really changes nothing much, the No Deal Bill has already been passed and we are in conference season so Parliament is not going to return straight away.
However what it does suggest is a more political highest court in the form of the Supreme Court rather than the old Law Lords making it likely we do down the US route with the executive and legislature of the day playing a greater role in the appointment of judges.
Bad day for the SNP too as they were hoping the Supreme Court would overrule the Scottish Court of Session
Those ERG nutters (and the PM and half the current Cabinet) who trashed May's deal, and thus gave Labour a cast-iron excuse for playing partisan games with it, have a hell of a lot to answer for.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
I'm not particularly interested in the words of some idiots who have brought us closer to a far-left government than we have ever been in my lifetime.
This isn't really going to help Boris hold his seat in Uxbridge, is it?
Oh Boris will increase his majority as we begin to process of shifting from diehard Remainers fury at Boris to diehard Leavers fury at the left liberal establishment from today
"MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"
No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
Your last sentence is at least correct Richard. Those that "rule" us are in the Executive. They have lied to us all, so scum probably is correct. As for the referendum result, the real result (a very narrow win for Leave) has been ignored by those that would have us leave without a deal. An appropriate observance would have been a very soft Brexit to represent the marginal nature of the result. It would be up to those who advocate something more extreme to get such an outcome at a later date. No one has come out of this debacle well.
I get the arguments about a soft Brexit for a narrow leave victory, they do make sense but what would those arguing that say had the result gone the other way. Is there any form of 'soft Remain'? Thus far and no further? Is that really possible in an EU that will continue to legislate in favour of ever closer union (albeit that Cameron negotiated an opt-out from that)?
Well, a 52-48 Remain victory would certainly have meant Britain going into the Euro was completely off the table. Probably would've also put the kibosh on those EU-wide "quotas" for taking in refugees that were all the rage at that time, and probably would've also meant much greater British resistance to new countries joining the EU (including Turkey) than there was in the past.
That doesn't really give much to the Leave side does it? A guarantee that something that hasn't happened and isn't likely to happen doesn't happen; a stop on a short-term unpopular policy; and something that was likely to be blocked by other countries anyway. It doesn't in any way unravel the position we already found ourselves in, whereas 'soft Brexit' retains many of the elements of the EU that leavers didn't like.
Can someone explain to me what Parliament will do in the next six weeks?
They frit to death of the electorate so they won't dare to vote for an election. They're frit to death of bringing a VONC so what will they do with those six weeks?
"MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"
No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
Your last sentence is at least correct Richard. Those that "rule" us are in the Executive. They have lied to us all, so scum probably is correct. As for the referendum result, the real result (a very narrow win for Leave) has been ignored by those that would have us leave without a deal. An appropriate observance would have been a very soft Brexit to represent the marginal nature of the result. It would be up to those who advocate something more extreme to get such an outcome at a later date. No one has come out of this debacle well.
I get the arguments about a soft Brexit for a narrow leave victory, they do make sense but what would those arguing that say had the result gone the other way. Is there any forme of 'soft Remain'? Thus far and no further? Is that really possible in an EU that will continue to legislate in favour of ever closer union (albeit that Cameron negotiated an opt-out from that)?
A narrow Remain win would have seen no concession to the margin of victory.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
I'm not particularly interested in the words of some idiots who have brought us closer to a far-left government than we have ever been in my lifetime.
By idiots you mean Judges who are ruling on the law as it currently stands.
If Johnson were to resign with immediate effect, who would become the Stop-Gap PM, until the Tories chose a new leader? Relevant in the "Next PM" betting market?
The verdict could not be more disastrous for the PM. He has been humiliated. His government, exactly two months old today, has suffered a catastrophic defeat. His Downing Street team look like dunces — with a fatal combination of hubris, deceit and incompetence.
Above all, Mr Johnson has been exposed as powerless. And all for nothing. There was nothing to be gained by trying to prorogue Parliament — and everything to lose.
For here’s a truth that’s hard to hear amid all the noise today. Fundamentally, the judgment by the Supreme Court doesn’t matter in the battle over Brexit.
I think the main immediate effect of this judgement is simply going to be an even bigger boost to the polarisation of opinion which we've seen since November.
Those ERG nutters (and the PM and half the current Cabinet) who trashed May's deal, and thus gave Labour a cast-iron excuse for playing partisan games with it, have a hell of a lot to answer for.
And yet Osborne backed Johnson to be Tory leader and Prime Minister knowing exactly what kind of man he is and what he is (in)capable of. What on earth was he thinking?
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
The answer to that question is in the judgment. If you read it, you'd realise that it's not a farce at all.
It's worth quoting the new rule, which seems a model of common sense:
the relevant limit on the power to prorogue is this: that a decision to prorogue (or advise the monarch to prorogue) will be unlawful if the prorogation has the effect of frustrating or preventing, without reasonable justification, the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions as a legislature and as the body responsible for the supervision of the executive. In judging any justification which might be put forward, the court must of course be sensitive to the responsibilities and experience of the Prime Minister and proceed with appropriate caution. If the prorogation does have that effect, without reasonable justification, there is no need for the court to consider whether the Prime Minister's motive or purpose was unlawful.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
I'm not particularly interested in the words of some idiots who have brought us closer to a far-left government than we have ever been in my lifetime.
By idiots you mean Judges who are ruling on the law as it currently stands.
Yes, I mean them - this decision has colossal _political_ consequences for the future of the country, stretching far beyond a piddling issue of 5 weeks!
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
I'm not particularly interested in the words of some idiots who have brought us closer to a far-left government than we have ever been in my lifetime.
You're OK, then. No.10 is refraining from comment at this time.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
I'm not particularly interested in the words of some idiots who have brought us closer to a far-left government than we have ever been in my lifetime.
How do you become a supreme court judge if you are an idiot? Why live in a fantasy world rather than reality?
"MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"
No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
In that case, you'll have the opportunity to vote them out at the next election. There's no way this Parliament is going to term, so it'll likely be within months.
At the end of the day, MPs can only block Brexit against the will of the people for just so long. If the people still want it, it'll still happen.
This isn't really going to help Boris hold his seat in Uxbridge, is it?
Oh Boris will increase his majority as we begin to process of shifting from diehard Remainers fury at Boris to diehard Leavers fury at the left liberal establishment from today
Are you calling all 11 Supreme Court judges left wing?
This isn't really going to help Boris hold his seat in Uxbridge, is it?
Oh Boris will increase his majority as we begin to process of shifting from diehard Remainers fury at Boris to diehard Leavers fury at the left liberal establishment from today
Has it started to dawn on you yet that those of us that said he was totally crap were right? (Chortle)
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
I'm not particularly interested in the words of some idiots who have brought us closer to a far-left government than we have ever been in my lifetime.
I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum result
The bigger picture is actually that no-one is above the law. If we are to remain a democracy, that principle is fundamental. The smaller picture is that delivering a Brexit that did not cause immense harm to the country was always going to be immensely difficult - and that is still the case. Those who claimed otherwise - and are now running the country - would do everyonr a favour is they admitted that and started looking beyond the base for solutions. EFTA/EEA will take us out. That's what shouold happen now.
The front page of the pro EU Standard spells it out “‘MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’”... if that’s how George Osborne sees it, how do you think Leave voters will?
I imagine many of them will be furious. But nothing the court has decided today makes any difference to when we leave the EU. If Johnson had not illegally prorogued Parliament the high likelihood is that Parliament would not have passed the extension law that it did. This is entirely of the PM's making.
What people will see is someone trying to get Brexit done, and being thwarted by lawyers. Actually I don’t think this is a bad outcome for Boris at all. People who want to remain and love lawyers trickery are lapping it up, but there are huge numbers who want to leave, and voted to do so in part because of such trickery. I can’t imagine Boris and co didn’t know that.
This isn't really going to help Boris hold his seat in Uxbridge, is it?
Oh Boris will increase his majority as we begin to process of shifting from diehard Remainers fury at Boris to diehard Leavers fury at the left liberal establishment from today
Are you calling all 11 Supreme Court judges left wing?
Perhaps the Daily Mail will oblige by putting a piccie of the 11 Justices under a suitable headline?
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
The answer to that question is in the judgment. If you read it, you'd realise that it's not a farce at all.
It's worth quoting the new rule, which seems a model of common sense:
the relevant limit on the power to prorogue is this: that a decision to prorogue (or advise the monarch to prorogue) will be unlawful if the prorogation has the effect of frustrating or preventing, without reasonable justification, the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions as a legislature and as the body responsible for the supervision of the executive. In judging any justification which might be put forward, the court must of course be sensitive to the responsibilities and experience of the Prime Minister and proceed with appropriate caution. If the prorogation does have that effect, without reasonable justification, there is no need for the court to consider whether the Prime Minister's motive or purpose was unlawful.
Short prorogation for a new Queen's Speech, new QS, QS voted down, no VoNC, prorogue again for a new QS...
"MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"
No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
Your last sentence is at least correct Richard. Those that "rule" us are in the Executive. They have lied to us all, so scum probably is correct. As for the referendum result, the real result (a very narrow win for Leave) has been ignored by those that would have us leave without a deal. An appropriate observance would have been a very soft Brexit to represent the marginal nature of the result. It would be up to those who advocate something more extreme to get such an outcome at a later date. No one has come out of this debacle well.
I get the arguments about a soft Brexit for a narrow leave victory, they do make sense but what would those arguing that say had the result gone the other way. Is there any forme of 'soft Remain'? Thus far and no further? Is that really possible in an EU that will continue to legislate in favour of ever closer union (albeit that Cameron negotiated an opt-out from that)?
A narrow Remain win would have seen no concession to the margin of victory.
I suspect that it would have looked rather like some of the suggestions down the thread, essentially a break on further integration but no unravelling of existing EU competence which isn't really a 'soft Remain', just Remain, though admittedly not a 'hard Remain' of joining the Euro etc.
Anyone in the cabinet with the power and guts to lead a mutiny? Probably not. Gove?
A mutiny will break the party and put Corbyn in power. They would have to be insane to do it.
It didnt stop Boris and co breaking the party against May?
The Conservative vote was in free-fall after the extension - switching to Boris and a clear Brexit policy reversed the decline.
It was in free-fall because the ERG nutters and Boris added their voice to Farage and his nutters to make a fetish out of the date - a mistake Boris has repeated with added rhetoric.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
I'm not particularly interested in the words of some idiots who have brought us closer to a far-left government than we have ever been in my lifetime.
You do try hard to keep an open mind, don't you?
Not when the entire political direction of the country could be altered for years by the literal-mindedness of people too rich to care if Corbyn gets in.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
I'm not particularly interested in the words of some idiots who have brought us closer to a far-left government than we have ever been in my lifetime.
By idiots you mean Judges who are ruling on the law as it currently stands.
Yes, I mean them - this decision has colossal _political_ consequences for the future of the country, stretching far beyond a piddling issue of 5 weeks!
The rule of law stands between us and would be dictators.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
I'm not particularly interested in the words of some idiots who have brought us closer to a far-left government than we have ever been in my lifetime.
By idiots you mean Judges who are ruling on the law as it currently stands.
Yes, I mean them - this decision has colossal _political_ consequences for the future of the country, stretching far beyond a piddling issue of 5 weeks!
The colossal political consequences are, that future PMs will not have the right to close parliament, just because he/she is afraid of what the elected MPs might do.
The one thing this ruling will not have is much impact on support for the various political blocs
You have the right/Leave bloc with about 46% of the vote, split between two parties, and the left/Remain bloc with about 49% split between three parties.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
I'm not particularly interested in the words of some idiots who have brought us closer to a far-left government than we have ever been in my lifetime.
You do try hard to keep an open mind, don't you?
Not when the entire political direction of the country could be altered for years by the literal-mindedness of people too rich to care if Corbyn gets in.
How exactly do you think this ruling is going to lead to PM Corbyn?
Rejoice ! Rejoice ! as the Great She-Elephant so rightly observed.
On a serious note surely it's time for a Peerage for Gina Miller. Two landmark Supreme Court judgements defending the people against the executive. I know the rules preclude a statue for a living person but a peerage seems fair. She'd be a grace and ornament to the revising chamber.
Anyone in the cabinet with the power and guts to lead a mutiny? Probably not. Gove?
A mutiny will break the party and put Corbyn in power. They would have to be insane to do it.
It didnt stop Boris and co breaking the party against May?
The Conservative vote was in free-fall after the extension - switching to Boris and a clear Brexit policy reversed the decline.
It was in free-fall because the ERG nutters and Boris added their voice to Farage and his nutters to make a fetish out of the date - a mistake Boris has repeated with added rhetoric.
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense - MAY herself repeated the March 29th deadline ad nauseam without needing any prompting.
If Johnson were to resign with immediate effect, who would become the Stop-Gap PM, until the Tories chose a new leader? Relevant in the "Next PM" betting market?
I'd imagine the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Gove) would probably get the nod from the Cabinet and parliamentary party in the (very) short term?
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
I'm not particularly interested in the words of some idiots who have brought us closer to a far-left government than we have ever been in my lifetime.
You do try hard to keep an open mind, don't you?
Not when the entire political direction of the country could be altered for years by the literal-mindedness of people too rich to care if Corbyn gets in.
Let's just hope our Supreme Court is so decisive in deeming Mr Corbyns plans for arbitrary private property confiscation illegal.
Not when the entire political direction of the country could be altered for years by the literal-mindedness of people too rich to care if Corbyn gets in.
Indeed so. That's an additional reason why the ERG's trashing of Tory unity and their attempts to crash us out of the EU in the most chaotic and damaging manner is so disastrous.: certainly nothing is more likely to lead to an extreme left-wing government that the chaos of No Deal.
I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0
The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum result
The bigger picture is actually that no-one is above the law. If we are to remain a democracy, that principle is fundamental. The smaller picture is that delivering a Brexit that did not cause immense harm to the country was always going to be immensely difficult - and that is still the case. Those who claimed otherwise - and are now running the country - would do everyonr a favour is they admitted that and started looking beyond the base for solutions. EFTA/EEA will take us out. That's what shouold happen now.
The front page of the pro EU Standard spells it out “‘MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’”... if that’s how George Osborne sees it, how do you think Leave voters will?
I imagine many of them will be furious. But nothing the court has decided today makes any difference to when we leave the EU. If Johnson had not illegally prorogued Parliament the high likelihood is that Parliament would not have passed the extension law that it did. This is entirely of the PM's making.
What people will see is someone trying to get Brexit done, and being thwarted by lawyers. (Snip)
I love the way you think you speak for 'the people' - whose views, oddly enough, seem to coincide with your own!
Well the judges have decided we are no longer a constitutional monarchy.
It is a judicial dictatorship.
LOL those pesky independent judges ruling on the law an' all.
They should be ruling on the law as it is not as they wish it to be.
This goes beyond activist, and will have great consequences for our constitution in the future.
Well done to them now one half of the country will no longer trust the judiciary.
And more fool them because it was the more conservative half, who will now not think twice about changing the constitution for their benefit.
It isn't particularly activist at all.
The nearest anyone has come since the Attlee government to try to use extended prorogation for purely political purposes was Major's effort shortly before he lost the election. And for obvious reasons no one thought that worth taking to court, despite general loud objection to his behaviour.
The verdict could not be more disastrous for the PM. He has been humiliated. His government, exactly two months old today, has suffered a catastrophic defeat. His Downing Street team look like dunces — with a fatal combination of hubris, deceit and incompetence.
Above all, Mr Johnson has been exposed as powerless. And all for nothing. There was nothing to be gained by trying to prorogue Parliament — and everything to lose.
For here’s a truth that’s hard to hear amid all the noise today. Fundamentally, the judgment by the Supreme Court doesn’t matter in the battle over Brexit.
I think the main immediate effect of this judgement is simply going to be an even bigger boost to the polarisation of opinion which we've seen since November.
Those ERG nutters (and the PM and half the current Cabinet) who trashed May's deal, and thus gave Labour a cast-iron excuse for playing partisan games with it, have a hell of a lot to answer for.
This isn't really going to help Boris hold his seat in Uxbridge, is it?
Oh Boris will increase his majority as we begin to process of shifting from diehard Remainers fury at Boris to diehard Leavers fury at the left liberal establishment from today
Are you calling all 11 Supreme Court judges left wing?
Perhaps the Daily Mail will oblige by putting a piccie of the 11 Justices under a suitable headline?
You can't expect the Mail to support justice. Be reasonable.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
I'm not particularly interested in the words of some idiots who have brought us closer to a far-left government than we have ever been in my lifetime.
You do try hard to keep an open mind, don't you?
Not when the entire political direction of the country could be altered for years by the literal-mindedness of people too rich to care if Corbyn gets in.
How exactly do you think this ruling is going to lead to PM Corbyn?
Oh, I don't know: tanking Boris' ratings, making him look weak, making his acceptance of the Benn Bill extension or a resignation inevitable.
All of which brings a far left government closer by the minute.
I'm sorry, but this is nonsense - MAY herself repeated the March 29th deadline ad nauseam without needing any prompting.
True, she deserves a lot of blame for that. That doesn't exonarate Boris for making the same mistake; in fact it makes it worse, since he'd seen the consequences.
Anyway, I suggest everyone actually makes the effort to read the judgment. It's clearly written and sets out the reasons for the decision in terms that should be generally understood. It's worth the effort, even if you are dismayed by the ruling.
So what happens to the prorogation power? Has the SC annulled it? Or just annulled it for this government? What a farce!
Read the judgement perhaps? Or just decry it as a farce asking nonsensical questions if you prefer?
I'm not particularly interested in the words of some idiots who have brought us closer to a far-left government than we have ever been in my lifetime.
By idiots you mean Judges who are ruling on the law as it currently stands.
Yes, I mean them - this decision has colossal _political_ consequences for the future of the country, stretching far beyond a piddling issue of 5 weeks!
The rule of law stands between us and would be dictators.
Exactly. The alternative would have been any PM shutting down the legislature any time he or she wanted.
"MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"
No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
In that case, you'll have the opportunity to vote them out at the next election. There's no way this Parliament is going to term, so it'll likely be within months.
At the end of the day, MPs can only block Brexit against the will of the people for just so long. If the people still want it, it'll still happen.
That depends on how you define the will of the people. It is likely to be the will of the people defined by the curiosities of the FPTP electoral system rather than a referendum.
Well the judges have decided we are no longer a constitutional monarchy.
It is a judicial dictatorship.
LOL those pesky independent judges ruling on the law an' all.
They should be ruling on the law as it is not as they wish it to be.
This goes beyond activist, and will have great consequences for our constitution in the future.
Well done to them now one half of the country will no longer trust the judiciary.
And more fool them because it was the more conservative half, who will now not think twice about changing the constitution for their benefit.
This is the real significance of today. I think this means we are heading for some form of written constitution and a much more politically active judiciary. Further evidence of the law of unforeseen consequences in Blair's constitutional reforms. The irony, of course, is that the Law Lords, who would have pronounced on this case before the establishment of the SC, wouldn't have been able to sit, I assume, because Parliament had been prorogued!
Boris should resign, but nobody wants him to because the presumed alternative, even for five minutes, is Corbyn.
Isn’t it time we dispensed of this wretched old lunatic? He could be out and Tom Watson in as interim Labour leader within days if Labour MPs had the wits and cojones.
A Watson led GONU is not a terrifying concept and such a government could conclude a deal and put it to the people.
Looks like you guys might be getting your Party back.
Very pleased for you.
Too early to say that, I'm afraid.
To be honest, I think the split has happened. Say Hunt or whoever ousted Boris, the Tory Brexiteer membership would leave the party. The uneasy alliance that existed from 1992 to 2019 is over.
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If they resign now, are replaced by Cons PPCs, then it won't matter one way or the other aside from personal loyalty.
Which he seems rather averse to offering.
Good decision for so many reasons but listening to remainers on Sky in our cabin each and everyone of them is refusing a GE demanding a referendum
In any sane parliament Boris would resign and a GE would happen
But so many mps afraid of their seats are literally squatting in thjs parliament and it is not a pretty sight
Dominic Grieve has just said a referendum with no deal as part of the question is the way forward and for once I agree with him
And all the best everyone - I will be back in 2 weeks
However what it does suggest is a more political highest court in the form of the Supreme Court rather than the old Law Lords making it likely we do down the US route with the executive and legislature of the day playing a greater role in the appointment of judges.
Bad day for the SNP too as they were hoping the Supreme Court would overrule the Scottish Court of Session
We'll be back in the same situation in January.
But Brexit has become so enmeshed in xenophobia, deceit, corruption and now constitutional vandalism, that it is ever harder to see it pushed through.
And applications for emergency debates.
the relevant limit on the power to prorogue is this: that a decision to prorogue (or advise the monarch to prorogue) will be unlawful if the prorogation has the effect of frustrating or preventing, without reasonable justification, the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions as a legislature and as the body responsible for the supervision of the executive. In judging any justification which might be put forward, the court must of course be sensitive to the responsibilities and experience of the Prime Minister and proceed with appropriate caution.
If the prorogation does have that effect, without reasonable justification, there is no need for the court to consider whether the Prime Minister's motive or purpose was unlawful.
This goes beyond activist, and will have great consequences for our constitution in the future.
Well done to them now one half of the country will no longer trust the judiciary.
And more fool them because it was the more conservative half, who will now not think twice about changing the constitution for their benefit.
No.10 is refraining from comment at this time.
At the end of the day, MPs can only block Brexit against the will of the people for just so long. If the people still want it, it'll still happen.
Not one judge out of 11 convinced by the government's case.
That's got to be a good thing.
You have the right/Leave bloc with about 46% of the vote, split between two parties, and the left/Remain bloc with about 49% split between three parties.
Most people know that the PM is the biggest liar in the country.
Jeez - no wonder we are screwed with dimwits like Amber in our political circle!
On a serious note surely it's time for a Peerage for Gina Miller. Two landmark Supreme Court judgements defending the people against the executive. I know the rules preclude a statue for a living person but a peerage seems fair. She'd be a grace and ornament to the revising chamber.
Looks like you guys might be getting your Party back.
Very pleased for you.
Slowly we move toward codifying the grey bits of and gaps in our construction.
The nearest anyone has come since the Attlee government to try to use extended prorogation for purely political purposes was Major's effort shortly before he lost the election.
And for obvious reasons no one thought that worth taking to court, despite general loud objection to his behaviour.
All of which brings a far left government closer by the minute.
Isn’t it time we dispensed of this wretched old lunatic? He could be out and Tom Watson in as interim Labour leader within days if Labour MPs had the wits and cojones.
A Watson led GONU is not a terrifying concept and such a government could conclude a deal and put it to the people.