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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Rule of Law 1 Cummings/Johnson 0

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Queen's Bench must be feeling a little sore - to be over-ruled 11-0. How shit must they be?

    To be fair, it's a bit like the difference between speed chess and tournament chess. They didn't get the same amount of time to fully consider their opinions, or hear all the submissions the SC had the benefit of.

    Note that the Scottish judgment was also slightly off beam in looking at motive, which the SC ruled irrelevant.

    But yes, a bit shit.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:
    Imagine you're a Conservative MP (not one of the completely nuts ones) and a vote of no confidence is tabled over the Prime Minister leading the Queen into an unlawful prorogation. Enjoy defending that one in Parliament or voting for him.
    Is Corbyn even going to table one though ?
    If I was Swinson (or Blackford) I would table one, and kindly ask the Speaker to consider hearing it, saying they have the support of the other party and that whilst not convention(!), if the third and fourth largest parties in Parliament support one, at such a crucial time, it should be debated. Bercow would probably call it.

    Then roar with laughter as Labour troop through the 'No' lobby the next day.
    Happy to be corrected here but Labour, SNP, Lib Dems, Green, PC and various others had decided to enact the stop no deal legislation and get the extension before having an election. Those parties didn't all do it as a personal favour for Labour, they also believe no deal is a stupid idea.

  • NemtynakhtNemtynakht Posts: 2,329
    Nigelb said:

    Fenman said:

    Boris needs to be on the first plane home, PDQ.

    Surely he doesn't make his speech to business leaders in NY now?

    If he's not going to resign, and Corbyn and Co aren't going to call a VONC, why should he do anything other than just carry on?
    Every Prime minister up until now would have resigned in similar circumstances.
    Did May resign after she lost in the Supreme Court?
    It is not the fact that he lost in court that ought to dish him.
    Rather it is the inferences anyone with a spark of intelligence can draw from the judgment.
    It's not even that the courts rules prorogation not legal, so much as the way in which they utterly demolished the ex post facto political justifications offered for the prorogation.

    It is not the court case which should bring down the government, but rather the realisation of the government's own actions.

    Of course we have a LOTO not worth the name, and it is doubtful that Swinson would be allowed to call a VONC even if she tried.
    However there have been and always will be a political dimension to a prorogation. The fact identified by the Supreme Court was that Parliament should not be able to use this to impede parliamentary oversight. Whilst it seems common sense it was not legally clear before and it will impede future governments (mr Corbyn) from overstepping their remit.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    Interesting the exchange markets have not reacted to the result. Either it was priced in or they think it will have little outcome on Brexit
  • I assume Farage is delighted at the spectacle of the Forces of Remain circling the wagons?

    His day as PM marches on apace....

    Nigel Farage is no doubt already reaching for Arron Banks's newly-exonerated cheque book.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    Scott_P said:
    "You might think that, but we cannot possibly speculate..."
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    The BBC desperately trying to spin this and then get some loon on to defend Bozo .
  • spudgfsh said:
    Always thought cats were going to take over sooner or later.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    AndyJS said:

    It wouldn't surprise me if this is all going to plan as far as Cummings is concerned. People vs the elites. (Not my view incidentally).

    Shaping up for an "us" versus "them" election.
  • GIN1138 said:

    This decision throws the impossible situation in Parliament into strong relief. We have a Government that does not have the confidence of the HoC and yet the HoC will not act to put it out of its misery. The key question now is what is Parliament going to do with the time that the SC has given it? Surely the only reasonable response is to VONC the Government and either call an election or try to find another Government which commands the confidence of the HoC (good luck with that!). What is the purpose and where is the dignity of keeping the Government in a straitjacket for another five weeks and just shouting at it?

    The clear way out is for the government to force the issue by resigning and throwing the gauntlet down to Parliament to come up with something better if they can.

    If they can't then we'll have to have an election.
    That's certainly one way, yes. It's difficult for them to do that politically as a) it hands the levers of government to their opponents and b) it will ensure that we don't leave by 31 Oct and thus bust open the pitch that only Remainers are stopping Brexit from happening.

    The judgment does put the ball back in the court of the HoC. Lady Hale said that prorogation was unlawful because it prevented parliament from holding the government to account. The judgment restores that opportunity to them. What are they going to do with it other than crow about the rule of law and how terrible Boris et al are?
  • Scott_P said:
    Agreed. It always was a bit tenuous anyway, coming from a country that still has hereditary Lords as part of its legislature, and many of the people that support Brexit are quite happy with that.
  • image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
  • BigIanBigIan Posts: 198
    edited September 2019
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    isam said:

    image.

    ‘MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’

    And, yet....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k9fE28koW4
    “It will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure, or whether we leave.

    Your decision.

    Nobody else’s.

    Not politicians’.

    Not Parliament’s.

    Not lobby groups’.

    Not mine.

    Just you.

    You, the British people, will decide.

    At that moment, you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands.

    This is a huge decision for our country, perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.

    And it will be the final decision.

    So to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to leave…

    …would merely produce another stronger renegotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain would stay…

    …I say think again.

    The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice.

    An in or out referendum.

    When the British people speak, their voice will be respected – not ignored.

    If we vote to leave, then we will leave.”
    I suspect we still will, so don't wet your knickers. Any uncertainty and delay is fully at the door of the headbanging end of the Brexit debate.
    You imply a man wearing knickers is a bad thing and use it pejoratively... How offensively unwoke! #dinosaur
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,617
    What is Parliament going to talk about when it comes back?

    There is no business happening apart from Brexit.

    There is nothing to talk about on Brexit until the EU summit.
  • In some parallel universe Lady Hale was Jacob Rees-Mogg's nanny and Brexit never happened
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Nigelb said:

    Fenman said:

    Boris needs to be on the first plane home, PDQ.

    Surely he doesn't make his speech to business leaders in NY now?

    If he's not going to resign, and Corbyn and Co aren't going to call a VONC, why should he do anything other than just carry on?
    Every Prime minister up until now would have resigned in similar circumstances.
    Did May resign after she lost in the Supreme Court?
    It is not the fact that he lost in court that ought to dish him.
    Rather it is the inferences anyone with a spark of intelligence can draw from the judgment.
    It's not even that the courts rules prorogation not legal, so much as the way in which they utterly demolished the ex post facto political justifications offered for the prorogation.

    It is not the court case which should bring down the government, but rather the realisation of the government's own actions.

    Of course we have a LOTO not worth the name, and it is doubtful that Swinson would be allowed to call a VONC even if she tried.
    However there have been and always will be a political dimension to a prorogation. The fact identified by the Supreme Court was that (the executive) should not be able to use this to impede parliamentary oversight. Whilst it seems common sense it was not legally clear before and it will impede future governments (mr Corbyn) from overstepping their remit.
    Of course, and a good thing too.

    But while the SC did not look into the government's motives and honesty, it's quite possible to draw some fairly obvious conclusions.

  • eristdoof said:

    eek said:

    isam said:

    I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0

    The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum result
    Yes, those ERG spartans have a lot to answer for.
    Yet all the Brexiters here and elsewhere will blame everyone except the ERG...
    The ERG didn't vote to extend. The MPs responsible for us not leaving are solely those who voted to extend.
    The ERG did vote against May's Brexit. You cannot claim otherwise.
    Yes they did. May's Brexit wasn't the only form of Brexit on the table at the time.

    After they rejected May's Deal the law of the land was that we would still leave on a set date. They didn't change that.

    ONLY MPs who voted to extend are the reason we are still in.
    Keeping clutching at those straws! The reason why we are still in is because the ERG is collectively as thick as pigshit, even by Brexit supporting standards
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0

    The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum result
    That would be the advisory referendum....?
    I can do no better than to paraphrase the mighty @TheScreamingEagles from 2016... any Tory MP using that flimsy excuse to deny Brexit should be deselected
  • What is Parliament going to talk about when it comes back?

    There is no business happening apart from Brexit.

    There is nothing to talk about on Brexit until the EU summit.

    The honesty and credibility of the govt? The role of unelected bureaucrats (not those in the EU this time).
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238
    spudgfsh said:
    Is that Boris under the fresh patch of tarmac ?

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,627

    I assume Farage is delighted at the spectacle of the Forces of Remain circling the wagons?

    His day as PM marches on apace....

    Nigel Farage is no doubt already reaching for Arron Banks's newly-exonerated cheque book.
    Time to get yet more popcorn for the Arron Banks v Carole Cadwalladr suit.
  • FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486

    What is Parliament going to talk about when it comes back?

    There is no business happening apart from Brexit.

    There is nothing to talk about on Brexit until the EU summit.

    Well, there were what, 12 bills in progress that are now un-dropped, including one on Domestic Violence.

    Also there might be some people want to question the PM about his conduct, just a guess.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494
    Nigelb said:

    spudgfsh said:
    Is that Boris under the fresh patch of tarmac ?

    I don't think so, but there's an insignia on the podium so he's not calling a general election
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    Brom said:

    Interesting the exchange markets have not reacted to the result. Either it was priced in or they think it will have little outcome on Brexit

    GBP up a third of a cent on USD. Very muted response.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    Talking about thick as pigshit Richard Tice says that Brexit wont happen on October 31 and that Cummings will resign. Though he's not normally someone to listen to he'll be correct on this
  • What is Parliament going to talk about when it comes back?

    There is no business happening apart from Brexit.

    There is nothing to talk about on Brexit until the EU summit.

    Confidence in the Government?

    Low level letterboxes (abolition) bill?
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,565

    What is Parliament going to talk about when it comes back?

    There is no business happening apart from Brexit.

    There is nothing to talk about on Brexit until the EU summit.

    I'm sure the Government had a business statement ready for this outcome. Perhaps they could start with the Domestic Abuse bill that was lost in the illegal suspension? Would be a popular choice and something most could unite round. A face-saver for the PM as well.

  • isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    image.

    ‘MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’

    And, yet....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k9fE28koW4
    “It will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure, or whether we leave.

    Your decision.

    Nobody else’s.

    Not politicians’.

    Not Parliament’s.

    Not lobby groups’.

    Not mine.

    Just you.

    You, the British people, will decide.

    At that moment, you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands.

    This is a huge decision for our country, perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.

    And it will be the final decision.

    So to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to leave…

    …would merely produce another stronger renegotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain would stay…

    …I say think again.

    The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice.

    An in or out referendum.

    When the British people speak, their voice will be respected – not ignored.

    If we vote to leave, then we will leave.”
    I suspect we still will, so don't wet your knickers. Any uncertainty and delay is fully at the door of the headbanging end of the Brexit debate.
    You imply a man wearing knickers is a bad thing and use it pejoratively... How offensively unwoke! #dinosaur
    I thought we all wear them? Don't we?!
  • nunuonenunuone Posts: 1,138
    Well the judges have decided we are no longer a constitutional monarchy.

    It is a judicial dictatorship.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,413
    TOPPING said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
    the fermenting malt of a great nation ?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Scott_P said:
    But for Cons voters and waverers, Jezza remains the gift that keeps giving, rounding up the maybes back into the Tory fold.
  • nunuone said:

    Well the judges have decided we are no longer a constitutional monarchy.

    It is a judicial dictatorship.

    What utter bollocks.
  • nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    nunuone said:

    Well the judges have decided we are no longer a constitutional monarchy.

    It is a judicial dictatorship.

    Hysterical nonsense . The SC stopped the dictatorship.
  • Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    isam said:

    isam said:

    I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0

    The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum result
    Dream on
    It’s the truth.

    Did we vote to leave in 2016?
    Have we left?

    And now we have a popular politician trying to force through the referendum result denied by faceless lawyers. I know this is a place where faceless lawyers and counter intuitive arguments are worshipped, but it’s not that way in the country as a whole.
    Popular?!? Pull the other one.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leadership_approval_opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    nunuone said:

    Well the judges have decided we are no longer a constitutional monarchy.

    It is a judicial dictatorship.

    Lol.
  • isam said:

    isam said:

    I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0

    The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum result

    The bigger picture is actually that no-one is above the law. If we are to remain a democracy, that principle is fundamental. The smaller picture is that delivering a Brexit that did not cause immense harm to the country was always going to be immensely difficult - and that is still the case. Those who claimed otherwise - and are now running the country - would do everyonr a favour is they admitted that and started looking beyond the base for solutions. EFTA/EEA will take us out. That's what shouold happen now.
    The front page of the pro EU Standard spells it out “‘MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’”... if that’s how George Osborne sees it, how do you think Leave voters will?
    Leave voters are not a homologous group, and have different opinions. Some leave voters may now want to remain (and vice versa); others will be perfectly happy with May's deal, or *any* deal. And then there are the ERG/UKIP/BXPers who are striving for no deal.

    Given the power of the latter grouping, any Brexit aside from a hard-out no-deal would be seen as being 'thwarting' Brexit - words I believe Farage has himself used.

    You may want to save some of your fire for Mr Farage, who has done more than anyone else to get us into this mess. He is now the gatekeeper of Brexit, which will only be seen to have happened when he says it has happened.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    nunuone said:

    Well the judges have decided we are no longer a constitutional monarchy.

    It is a judicial dictatorship.

    LOL those pesky independent judges ruling on the law an' all.
  • TOPPING said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
    I didn't vote for any of these scum. I know what it makes you.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Stop trying to overturn the will of the people. The people elected MPs in 2017 to serve a term of 5 years.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    TOPPING said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
    I didn't vote for any of these scum. I know what it makes you.
    Get a grip man. It is unbecoming.
  • Boris needs to sack Gove and say it was all his fault. Gove would go quietly.
  • Any reaction from moderate but so far loyal Tory MPs yet?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited September 2019
    “It will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure, or whether we leave.

    Your decision.

    Nobody else’s.

    Not politicians’.

    Not Parliament’s.

    Not lobby groups’.

    Not mine.

    Just you.

    You, the British people, will decide.

    At that moment, you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands.

    This is a huge decision for our country, perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.

    And it will be the final decision.

    So to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to leave…

    …would merely produce another stronger renegotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain would stay…

    …I say think again.

    The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice.

    An in or out referendum.

    When the British people speak, their voice will be respected – not ignored.

    If we vote to leave, then we will leave.”

    Cameron Nov 2015

    “MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’”

    Osborne Sep 2019
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,570
    edited September 2019

    TOPPING said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
    I didn't vote for any of these scum. I know what it makes you.
    Get a grip man. It is unbecoming.
    So is destroying democracy. Not that you give a shit about that.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    Scott_P said:
    Think of his carbon footprint for god sake.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468

    TOPPING said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
    I didn't vote for any of these scum. I know what it makes you.
    Get a grip man. It is unbecoming.
    So is destroying democracy. Not that you give a shit about that.
    I repeat: get a grip.
  • 148grss148grss Posts: 4,155
    Can those who disagree with this ruling please argue why they would be in favour of PM Corbyn proroguing parliament for as long as he pleased to allow for something massive to happen, such as not funding the military, as John Major suggested?
  • image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    Your last sentence is at least correct Richard. Those that "rule" us are in the Executive. They have lied to us all, so scum probably is correct. As for the referendum result, the real result (a very narrow win for Leave) has been ignored by those that would have us leave without a deal. An appropriate observance would have been a very soft Brexit to represent the marginal nature of the result. It would be up to those who advocate something more extreme to get such an outcome at a later date. No one has come out of this debacle well.
  • TheJezziahTheJezziah Posts: 3,840
    As soon we get an extension IMO.
  • DruttDrutt Posts: 1,124
    nico67 said:

    nunuone said:

    Well the judges have decided we are no longer a constitutional monarchy.

    It is a judicial dictatorship.

    Hysterical nonsense . The SC stopped the dictatorship.
    nico67 said:

    nunuone said:

    Well the judges have decided we are no longer a constitutional monarchy.

    It is a judicial dictatorship.

    Hysterical nonsense . The SC stopped the dictatorship.
    You're both wrong. An exec with a prorogued Parliament can't change anything, so it can't be a dictatorship. Indeed, on today's proceedings it looks like the PM is everyone's bitch.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
    I didn't vote for any of these scum. I know what it makes you.
    You didn't vote??

    Funniest thing I've heard. You have therefore excluded yourself from any political comment about anything. which given the quality of your contributions would be no great loss.

    Or wait - are you wearing your favourite "whoever you vote for the government always gets in" t-shirt?
  • Remarkable that no witness statement was given by PM as to reasons. Para 61 is damning on that, and only conceivable reason was to avoid perjury rap.
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,366
    Can someone explain to me what Parliament will do in the next six weeks?

    They frit to death of the electorate so they won't dare to vote for an election. They're frit to death of bringing a VONC so what will they do with those six weeks?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,570
    edited September 2019
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
    I didn't vote for any of these scum. I know what it makes you.
    You didn't vote??

    Funniest thing I've heard. You have therefore excluded yourself from any political comment about anything. which given the quality of your contributions would be no great loss.

    Or wait - are you wearing your favourite "whoever you vote for the government always gets in" t-shirt?
    Nope I voted just not for any of this lot. Or are you so arrogant as to think that if your candidate loses you shouldn't have a voice? That woukd be about right for you.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
    I didn't vote for any of these scum. I know what it makes you.
    Get a grip man. It is unbecoming.
    The correlation between Richard insulting people and realising he is out of his depth is quite high.
  • ozymandiasozymandias Posts: 1,503
    CD13 said:

    Can someone explain to me what Parliament will do in the next six weeks?

    They frit to death of the electorate so they won't dare to vote for an election. They're frit to death of bringing a VONC so what will they do with those six weeks?

    Well this.

    All very well the Commons can now sit again as soon as possible.

    Great.

    So what are they going to do now? Sit there and......do what? Say what? Enact what? Decide what?
  • So what now? Just hand the country over to the Stupid Communist? No thanks!
  • isam said:

    You imply a man wearing knickers is a bad thing and use it pejoratively... How offensively unwoke! #dinosaur

    I thought we all wear them? Don't we?!
    I certainly wear them, but I would not have thought that there was enough room in them for men's err... unmentionables. Well... most men....

    :D:D

    Stay away from thongs though....
  • Remarkable that no witness statement was given by PM as to reasons. Para 61 is damning on that, and only conceivable reason was to avoid perjury rap.

    It was the most astonishing omission.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,478

    TOPPING said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
    I didn't vote for any of these scum. I know what it makes you.

    TOPPING said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
    I didn't vote for any of these scum. I know what it makes you.
    I’ve voted in every GE since 1959. I’ve only voted for a winner once.

  • isam said:

    isam said:

    I have updated the title to make it clear that it's the Rule of Law 11 Cummings/Johnson 0

    The bigger picture is one of the establishment refusing to carry out the referendum result

    The bigger picture is actually that no-one is above the law. If we are to remain a democracy, that principle is fundamental. The smaller picture is that delivering a Brexit that did not cause immense harm to the country was always going to be immensely difficult - and that is still the case. Those who claimed otherwise - and are now running the country - would do everyonr a favour is they admitted that and started looking beyond the base for solutions. EFTA/EEA will take us out. That's what shouold happen now.
    The front page of the pro EU Standard spells it out “‘MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’”... if that’s how George Osborne sees it, how do you think Leave voters will?

    I imagine many of them will be furious. But nothing the court has decided today makes any difference to when we leave the EU. If Johnson had not illegally prorogued Parliament the high likelihood is that Parliament would not have passed the extension law that it did. This is entirely of the PM's making.

  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
    I didn't vote for any of these scum. I know what it makes you.
    You didn't vote??

    Funniest thing I've heard. You have therefore excluded yourself from any political comment about anything. which given the quality of your contributions would be no great loss.

    Or wait - are you wearing your favourite "whoever you vote for the government always gets in" t-shirt?
    Nope I voted just not for any of this lot.
    I'm looking forward to the next phase where you turn on the British people for being too pathetic to rise up against this Remainer conspiracy.
  • isam said:

    “It will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure, or whether we leave.

    Your decision.

    Nobody else’s.

    Not politicians’.

    Not Parliament’s.

    Not lobby groups’.

    Not mine.

    Just you.

    You, the British people, will decide.

    At that moment, you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands.

    This is a huge decision for our country, perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.

    And it will be the final decision.

    So to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to leave…

    …would merely produce another stronger renegotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain would stay…

    …I say think again.

    The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice.

    An in or out referendum.

    When the British people speak, their voice will be respected – not ignored.

    If we vote to leave, then we will leave.”

    He is not God. He was not an absolute ruler. He is one man.

    He never had the power to guarantee any of that, parliament is sovereign and would decide.

    I agree we should leave (because we voted for it, not because its a good idea), but part of the problem we are in is we think our politicians have more power than they do.

    Cameron could not guarantee Remain would win, or that we would leave if Leave won.

    May could not guarantee we would leave on April Fools Day.

    Boris cannot guarantee we will leave on Halloween (aka Macron Day)

    Why not realise they are merely expressing their intentions not a guarantee of what will happen instead of getting repeatedly frustrated when they inevitably fail to deliver.

    Because parliament is sovereign, not them, not a referendum, not the executive, not the Tory party.
  • Finished the full judgement. I'm quite horny. It's beautiful. John Harris of the Guardian was so astute when he pointed out the Brexiters were Cavaliers not Roundheads.
  • Danny565Danny565 Posts: 8,091

    As soon we get an extension IMO.
    I'd rather not. Labour get mullered in any election before Brexit is 'sorted' (one way or the other), IMO.
  • TabmanTabman Posts: 1,046
    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    But for Cons voters and waverers, Jezza remains the gift that keeps giving, rounding up the maybes back into the Tory fold.
    Swinson?

  • Meanwhile, I'm enjoying how "the worst political decision in history" requires only the resignation of an obscure aide. Nigel Farage must really hate Dominic Cummings.
  • TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
    I didn't vote for any of these scum. I know what it makes you.
    Get a grip man. It is unbecoming.
    The correlation between Richard insulting people and realising he is out of his depth is quite high.
    Says the man who seens unable to.understand the basic system of voting.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,238

    Remarkable that no witness statement was given by PM as to reasons. Para 61 is damning on that, and only conceivable reason was to avoid perjury rap.

    "It is impossible for us to conclude on the evidence... that there was any reason - let alone a good reason - to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament for five weeks."

  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    They'll face a reckoning, sooner or later.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Scott_P said:
    He forgot "Tried to call an election, twice, but failed"
  • PClippPClipp Posts: 2,138
    isam said:

    “It will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure, or whether we leave.

    Your decision.

    Nobody else’s.

    Not politicians’.

    Not Parliament’s.

    Not lobby groups’.

    Not mine.

    Just you.

    You, the British people, will decide.

    At that moment, you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands.

    This is a huge decision for our country, perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.

    And it will be the final decision.

    So to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to leave…

    …would merely produce another stronger renegotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain would stay…

    …I say think again.

    The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice.

    An in or out referendum.

    When the British people speak, their voice will be respected – not ignored.

    If we vote to leave, then we will leave.”

    Cameron Nov 2015

    “MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’”

    Osborne Sep 2019

    Cameron was just the leader of one faction within the Conservative Party. He did not speak for the country as a whole, did he?
  • image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    Your last sentence is at least correct Richard. Those that "rule" us are in the Executive. They have lied to us all, so scum probably is correct. As for the referendum result, the real result (a very narrow win for Leave) has been ignored by those that would have us leave without a deal. An appropriate observance would have been a very soft Brexit to represent the marginal nature of the result. It would be up to those who advocate something more extreme to get such an outcome at a later date. No one has come out of this debacle well.
    I get the arguments about a soft Brexit for a narrow leave victory, they do make sense but what would those arguing that say had the result gone the other way. Is there any form of 'soft Remain'? Thus far and no further? Is that really possible in an EU that will continue to legislate in favour of ever closer union (albeit that Cameron negotiated an opt-out from that)?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381

    CD13 said:

    Can someone explain to me what Parliament will do in the next six weeks?

    They frit to death of the electorate so they won't dare to vote for an election. They're frit to death of bringing a VONC so what will they do with those six weeks?

    Well this.

    All very well the Commons can now sit again as soon as possible.

    Great.

    So what are they going to do now? Sit there and......do what? Say what? Enact what? Decide what?
    They'll do what they've been doing for months. Deciding what they don't want.
  • dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,300
    Sturgeon, Swinson say Boris Johnson should resign. Hardly a surprise, perhaps his days are numbered if Tory MPs start tweeting or repeating that message. It remains to be seen if there is anyone capable of forming a government in his place. Corbyn can't command the support of his own party, let alone the support of Lib Dems or SNP.

    Remains to be seen if MPs are prepared to break the logjam by calling a Vote of No Confidence or not.
  • Meanwhile, I'm enjoying how "the worst political decision in history" requires only the resignation of an obscure aide. Nigel Farage must really hate Dominic Cummings.

    I think we already knew that was the case from the referendum campaign.
  • PClipp said:

    isam said:

    “It will be your decision whether to remain in the EU on the basis of the reforms we secure, or whether we leave.

    Your decision.

    Nobody else’s.

    Not politicians’.

    Not Parliament’s.

    Not lobby groups’.

    Not mine.

    Just you.

    You, the British people, will decide.

    At that moment, you will hold this country’s destiny in your hands.

    This is a huge decision for our country, perhaps the biggest we will make in our lifetimes.

    And it will be the final decision.

    So to those who suggest that a decision in the referendum to leave…

    …would merely produce another stronger renegotiation and then a second referendum in which Britain would stay…

    …I say think again.

    The renegotiation is happening right now. And the referendum that follows will be a once in a generation choice.

    An in or out referendum.

    When the British people speak, their voice will be respected – not ignored.

    If we vote to leave, then we will leave.”

    Cameron Nov 2015

    “MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain’s exit from the EU’”

    Osborne Sep 2019

    Cameron was just the leader of one faction within the Conservative Party. He did not speak for the country as a whole, did he?
    No, but he was hardly the only politician saying that was he?
  • As so often, George Osborne is on the button:

    The verdict could not be more disastrous for the PM. He has been humiliated. His government, exactly two months old today, has suffered a catastrophic defeat. His Downing Street team look like dunces — with a fatal combination of hubris, deceit and incompetence.

    Above all, Mr Johnson has been exposed as powerless. And all for nothing. There was nothing to be gained by trying to prorogue Parliament — and everything to lose.

    For here’s a truth that’s hard to hear amid all the noise today. Fundamentally, the judgment by the Supreme Court doesn’t matter in the battle over Brexit.


    https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/comment/evening-standard-comment-a-victory-for-democracy-and-the-pm-humiliated-uber-s-delayed-new-ride-the-a4244886.html

    I think the main immediate effect of this judgement is simply going to be an even bigger boost to the polarisation of opinion which we've seen since November.

    Those ERG nutters (and the PM and half the current Cabinet) who trashed May's deal, and thus gave Labour a cast-iron excuse for playing partisan games with it, have a hell of a lot to answer for.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    The "scum" that you voted for. Just as with Trump (I am not his greatest fan), who is the democratically elected president of the United States, so are our MPs democratically elected by you. And me. And everyone else. So if they are scum what does that make us?
    I didn't vote for any of these scum. I know what it makes you.
    Get a grip man. It is unbecoming.
    The correlation between Richard insulting people and realising he is out of his depth is quite high.
    Says the man who seens unable to.understand the basic system of voting.
    Yes it is quite tricky as it stands. Perhaps if there was a thread on it, plus other systems of voting it would be quite helpful.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Sean_F said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    They'll face a reckoning, sooner or later.
    Ooh what sort of reckoning? A Labour government? Nige as PM? What were you thinking?
  • image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    Your last sentence is at least correct Richard. Those that "rule" us are in the Executive. They have lied to us all, so scum probably is correct. As for the referendum result, the real result (a very narrow win for Leave) has been ignored by those that would have us leave without a deal. An appropriate observance would have been a very soft Brexit to represent the marginal nature of the result. It would be up to those who advocate something more extreme to get such an outcome at a later date. No one has come out of this debacle well.
    I get the arguments about a soft Brexit for a narrow leave victory, they do make sense but what would those arguing that say had the result gone the other way. Is there any form of 'soft Remain'? Thus far and no further? Is that really possible in an EU that will continue to legislate in favour of ever closer union (albeit that Cameron negotiated an opt-out from that)?
    Soft remain might look like an opt out from the Euro and ever closer union? Perhaps an emergency brake on immigration whilst we changed our welfare arrangements if we wanted to?
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    Tabman said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    But for Cons voters and waverers, Jezza remains the gift that keeps giving, rounding up the maybes back into the Tory fold.
    Swinson?

    Gets better and better for the Lib Dems. The Labour leader is unelectable and the Tory leader lied to the Queen.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,388
    Can Boris appeal to the ECJ?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,381
    TOPPING said:

    Sean_F said:

    image.

    Interesting phrasing from The Standard.

    "MPs could be back in days to thwart Britain's exit from EU"

    No pretence now of trying to get a deal. Just ignore the referendum result and cancel Brexit. So we see the true nature of the scum who rule us.
    They'll face a reckoning, sooner or later.
    Ooh what sort of reckoning? A Labour government? Nige as PM? What were you thinking?
    A lot of them will be out on their ear, at the next election.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,992
    Tabman said:

    TOPPING said:

    Scott_P said:
    But for Cons voters and waverers, Jezza remains the gift that keeps giving, rounding up the maybes back into the Tory fold.
    Swinson?

    I'm not sure - frankly for I'm guessing the majority of Tory supporters and hitherto voters, everything that is happening at Brighton this week will clarify the threat that they perceive Corbyn represents and hence are likely to be driven back (holding their nose) to the Cons. But yes, Swinson is definitely an outlet valve.
  • 148grss said:

    Can those who disagree with this ruling please argue why they would be in favour of PM Corbyn proroguing parliament for as long as he pleased to allow for something massive to happen, such as not funding the military, as John Major suggested?

    It's five weeks, not 5 years! 5 weeks in which Parliament would normally be in recess for conference season, and has already passed the legislation it wanted to!
  • murali_smurali_s Posts: 3,067
    edited September 2019
    Liar, liar, pants on fire!

    When will the piece of sh*t resign?

    And hi from NYC!
This discussion has been closed.