Further to my discussions with others yesterday re Chuka and Westminster. Worth noting for betting purposes that all of Jo's new LDs will have to face 'he/she sat in two stints as an independent and for 3 parties in the space of 6 months, how can you trust them?' That will sway some votes, no doubt.
Wait a mo. Are they all going to stand?
Berger has ZERO hope in Liverpool Wavertree -- and it is not a good look to kick out an existing LibDem candidate in Finchley and Golders Green.
The existing LibDem candidate in Totnes will certainly be unhappy if she is booted out for Wollaston.
There are existing, hardworking candidates and there are Big Egos from other parties (who only earlier this year were taking of annihilating the LibDems).
Dutch minister weighs in with no extension without GE/referendum
It seems to me that the EU will have to decide whether to offer/accept an unconditional extension. I don't think the Benn Bill obliges the prime minister to accept conditions. Or at least the imposition of conditions moves things into a very grey area.
The Benn Bill mandates that an extension must be accepted, unless a vote to refuse (and thereby accept no deal) is won in the Commons.
I just think that if the government were looking for a way around the law, it could say that it accepted the offer of an extension, but didn't accept the conditions attached to it. In that case the EU and/or the UK courts would have a decision to make.
The choice to accept conditions or a different extension period is not upto the PM but MPs .
Dutch minister weighs in with no extension without GE/referendum
It seems to me that the EU will have to decide whether to offer/accept an unconditional extension. I don't think the Benn Bill obliges the prime minister to accept conditions. Or at least the imposition of conditions moves things into a very grey area.
I suspect by then it'll be clear enough an election's on the way, though I guess there could be some choreography issues between the opposition's "no election called before an extension" and the EU's apparent "no extension before an election called". Given both those parties aren't keen on a No Deal, I'd expect those issues to be resolved.
The government can be VoNCed after the 19th Oct. Who becomes caretaker PM will not be moot as election will also be called at the same time. Corbyn, at best, will be a minority PM for 5 weeks. LDs can say in the campaign that they will not be in a coalition with Labour [ or anyone else ]
If Corbyn became a caretaker PM there would be enormous pressure on him to call a 2nd referendum. Would he be able to resist?
An argument for leaving with no deal is that you have a blank canvas from which it may be easier to move to EFTA, EEA. WTO, Singapore sur la mer or other situation with less complications than the restrictions and requirements of the pre negotiated deal that wasn't structured for future unknown developments.
The canvas wouldn't be blank though.
It would at the very least be stained with the blood of those who died as a result of No Deal
Dutch minister weighs in with no extension without GE/referendum
It seems to me that the EU will have to decide whether to offer/accept an unconditional extension. I don't think the Benn Bill obliges the prime minister to accept conditions. Or at least the imposition of conditions moves things into a very grey area.
I suspect by then it'll be clear enough an election's on the way, though I guess there could be some choreography issues between the opposition's "no election called before an extension" and the EU's apparent "no extension before an election called". Given both those parties aren't keen on a No Deal, I'd expect those issues to be resolved.
The government can be VoNCed after the 19th Oct. Who becomes caretaker PM will not be moot as election will also be called at the same time. Corbyn, at best, will be a minority PM for 5 weeks. LDs can say in the campaign that they will not be in a coalition with Labour [ or anyone else ]
Poor queenie. The full pomp of a Queens's Speech. What a waste of time and money to provide a six day party political broadcast for the outgoing government. I'm sure she will signal her disapproval in an unmistakable but queenly way.
Dutch minister weighs in with no extension without GE/referendum
It seems to me that the EU will have to decide whether to offer/accept an unconditional extension. I don't think the Benn Bill obliges the prime minister to accept conditions. Or at least the imposition of conditions moves things into a very grey area.
I suspect by then it'll be clear enough an election's on the way, though I guess there could be some choreography issues between the opposition's "no election called before an extension" and the EU's apparent "no extension before an election called". Given both those parties aren't keen on a No Deal, I'd expect those issues to be resolved.
The government can be VoNCed after the 19th Oct. Who becomes caretaker PM will not be moot as election will also be called at the same time. Corbyn, at best, will be a minority PM for 5 weeks. LDs can say in the campaign that they will not be in a coalition with Labour [ or anyone else ]
If Corbyn became a caretaker PM there would be enormous pressure on him to call a 2nd referendum. Would he be able to resist?
Further to my discussions with others yesterday re Chuka and Westminster. Worth noting for betting purposes that all of Jo's new LDs will have to face 'he/she sat in two stints as an independent and for 3 parties in the space of 6 months, how can you trust them?' That will sway some votes, no doubt.
Wait a mo. Are they all going to stand?
Berger has ZERO hope in Liverpool Wavertree -- and it is not a good look to kick out an existing LibDem candidate in Finchley and Golders Green.
The existing LibDem candidate in Totnes will certainly be unhappy if she is booted out for Wollaston.
There are existing, hardworking candidates and there are Big Egos from other parties (who only earlier this year were taking of annihilating the LibDems).
It is LD policy that any defecting MP can only run as an MP with the approval of the local party. They cannot be imposed.
Dutch minister weighs in with no extension without GE/referendum
It seems to me that the EU will have to decide whether to offer/accept an unconditional extension. I don't think the Benn Bill obliges the prime minister to accept conditions. Or at least the imposition of conditions moves things into a very grey area.
I suspect by then it'll be clear enough an election's on the way, though I guess there could be some choreography issues between the opposition's "no election called before an extension" and the EU's apparent "no extension before an election called". Given both those parties aren't keen on a No Deal, I'd expect those issues to be resolved.
The government can be VoNCed after the 19th Oct. Who becomes caretaker PM will not be moot as election will also be called at the same time. Corbyn, at best, will be a minority PM for 5 weeks. LDs can say in the campaign that they will not be in a coalition with Labour [ or anyone else ]
Poor queenie. The full pomp of a Queens's Speech. What a waste of time and money to provide a six day party political broadcast for the outgoing government. I'm sure she will signal her disapproval in an unmistakable but queenly way.
Clamping her mandibles to either side of Boris' head and sucking out his brain through his eyes?
Further to my discussions with others yesterday re Chuka and Westminster. Worth noting for betting purposes that all of Jo's new LDs will have to face 'he/she sat in two stints as an independent and for 3 parties in the space of 6 months, how can you trust them?' That will sway some votes, no doubt.
Wait a mo. Are they all going to stand?
Berger has ZERO hope in Liverpool Wavertree -- and it is not a good look to kick out an existing LibDem candidate in Finchley and Golders Green.
The existing LibDem candidate in Totnes will certainly be unhappy if she is booted out for Wollaston.
There are existing, hardworking candidates and there are Big Egos from other parties (who only earlier this year were taking of annihilating the LibDems).
It is LD policy that any defecting MP can only run as an MP with the approval of the local party. They cannot be imposed.
It does not alter the fact that earlier this year these MPs (in their TIGGer incarnation) were talking about annihilating the LibDems.
Dutch minister weighs in with no extension without GE/referendum
It seems to me that the EU will have to decide whether to offer/accept an unconditional extension. I don't think the Benn Bill obliges the prime minister to accept conditions. Or at least the imposition of conditions moves things into a very grey area.
I suspect by then it'll be clear enough an election's on the way, though I guess there could be some choreography issues between the opposition's "no election called before an extension" and the EU's apparent "no extension before an election called". Given both those parties aren't keen on a No Deal, I'd expect those issues to be resolved.
The government can be VoNCed after the 19th Oct. Who becomes caretaker PM will not be moot as election will also be called at the same time. Corbyn, at best, will be a minority PM for 5 weeks. LDs can say in the campaign that they will not be in a coalition with Labour [ or anyone else ]
If Corbyn became a caretaker PM there would be enormous pressure on him to call a 2nd referendum. Would he be able to resist?
He wouldn't have the votes.
Could attach it as a confirmatory vote to passing TM's deal - that might have the votes.
I am a leaver but this is pretty serious. Has Boris lied to the House of Commons about negotiations with the EU? It seems obvious that he has. That is not a trivial matter. In my view Blair really should have gone to jail for his lies about WMD. Why should Boris be different?
Jail them both, unite the nation
I'm really looking forward to the Brexit show trials
It depends on which side eventually emerges as the victor!
Dutch minister weighs in with no extension without GE/referendum
Question - which one of those would finish this off once and for all.
And if a referendum exactly what should the leave option be (May's deal or No Deal).
Can't it be both? Heck, I'm sure a poster on here (so credit elsewhere) suggested:
"Should the United Kingdom leave the European Union on the terms negotiated (Theresa May's Brexit Deal)?
Yes/No
"If the overall answer to the above is No, what should the United Kingdom do instead?"
Remain/No Deal Exit
I'm sure the Electoral Commission will need input, but this *might* work?
That methodology pushes people to the extremes. Just as the process in Parliament has. Even though TM's Deal was (at the time) capable of beating both No Deal and No Brexit head-to-head.
I think they would need to attach a 'confirmatory referendum' to it to get it passed though. Several Labour MPs (I believe Jess Philips was one but there are others) have said they would vote through May's deal if it is subject to a referendum. Without that, I don't see Labour backing it, and LDs/SNP won't either.
Vince Cable offered May's deal plus referendum, and it would probably have passed with no more carnage in the Tory party than has come to pass (would have needed Labour votes but I think enough would have been there.)
Parliament is running scared of the Country, and by the way, I think Boris is a nightmare and want the Country to decide who the next PM is, not a bankrupt Parliament
Dutch minister weighs in with no extension without GE/referendum
Question - which one of those would finish this off once and for all.
And if a referendum exactly what should the leave option be (May's deal or No Deal).
Can't it be both? Heck, I'm sure a poster on here (so credit elsewhere) suggested:
"Should the United Kingdom leave the European Union on the terms negotiated (Theresa May's Brexit Deal)?
Yes/No
"If the overall answer to the above is No, what should the United Kingdom do instead?"
Remain/No Deal Exit
I'm sure the Electoral Commission will need input, but this *might* work?
All questions variations are subject to bias - as the article I posted a link to earlier today points out. The order the questions are asked even the order points are made within a question biases the end result.
When we looked at the two question solution before - it's possible to game 2 of the 3 solutions just by putting the options in a different order.
I am sure many on here share my instinct that a hung parliament is again likely. In which case a GE will have been utterly pointless. I think now the argument has to be what the wording of a new referendum should be. Should it include remain? As a remainer/internationalist I would love it if none of this had ever happened, but reality is that it has, and I think we would humiliate ourselves by reversing now. I would prefer a choice between the severe self-harm option and EEA/EFTA or equiv.
It would at the very least be stained with the blood of those who dies as a result of No Deal
Christ on a bike...you are without question one of the most hysterical posters on here.
I'm sorry, but people need to be realistic about this.
There is a likelihood that some people will die as a result of No Deal. There is a possibility that quite large numbers of people - say thousands - will die. (Just look at what has been said about the consequences regarding flu vaccine alone.)
If only Brexiteers could be forced to discuss facts, rather than presenting wishful thinking as facts, we might be in a better situation.
In fact, Brexiteers need urgently to discuss facts. They need to come up with reasoned arguments about the likely consequences of No Deal, backed up by demonstrable facts. That includes whether people are likely to die as a result, and how many. And if people are likely to die, they need to explain why that is acceptable to them.
At this vital time, Johnson has managed to massively piss me off. I'm never a natural Conservative voter, I usually go LD but as a Leaver I've been looking around.
Proroguation is insane. Parliament should be sitting every bloody day until this is sorted, and Johnson's attempts to shut down dissent absolutely angers me.
Labour went off the deep end three years ago. The Tories did the same three weeks ago. The only sane national party left is the LD, and blooming heck, I'm going to have to vote for the Remainers just to try and knock some sense into the other two.
So in reality Johnson is deciding not to make any real effort to achieve an early election.
Why/
I suggested weeks ago that Johnson's strategy was to avoid a damaging No Deal (for the sake of his legacy and success as a one nation PM) but covertly facilitate parliament in avoiding No Deal so he can gather in BXP votes in the subsequent GE ("people versus parliament") against a divided opposition.
He is basically on track. He is up in the polls and the opposition is split. The problems he has are:
1. His own disappointing performance and the negatives of e.g. the JRM meme, his brother's resignation etc. 2. The attitude of Farage to an extension. 3. The cooperation between opposition parties and the development of an effective tactical voting movement.
I suspect he's not where he hoped he would be. It shows in his face an.d body language. Drooping.
Trying to encourage the opposition to vote for an election?
Classic Dom.
It’s from Amber Rudd’s now unemployed advisor.
I’ve been saying precisely this for some time. An election is very risky for the Conservatives.
She has left the party, not him, note the use of 'we'. This us a briefing from a current Tory. Hes out of a job because Amber resigned not because the Tories binned him
Trying to encourage the opposition to vote for an election?
Classic Dom.
It’s from Amber Rudd’s now unemployed advisor.
I’ve been saying precisely this for some time. An election is very risky for the Conservatives.
I wonder if Corbyn might go for it (Oct 14) this evening, probably not but it'd certainly catch the Lib Dems and SNP off guard.
Going for it now is insane if the Tories and BXP have any chance of forming an electoral pact. The election really does need to be in November after Boris has missed his die in a ditch October 31st deadline.
Further to my discussions with others yesterday re Chuka and Westminster. Worth noting for betting purposes that all of Jo's new LDs will have to face 'he/she sat in two stints as an independent and for 3 parties in the space of 6 months, how can you trust them?' That will sway some votes, no doubt.
Wait a mo. Are they all going to stand?
Berger has ZERO hope in Liverpool Wavertree -- and it is not a good look to kick out an existing LibDem candidate in Finchley and Golders Green.
The existing LibDem candidate in Totnes will certainly be unhappy if she is booted out for Wollaston.
There are existing, hardworking candidates and there are Big Egos from other parties (who only earlier this year were taking of annihilating the LibDems).
I think I made a similar point too. Problem for the LD's is they selected their candidates a couple of weeks ago (I got an email) in most, if not all seats? The defectors have a problem therefore, as if they stand in existing seats, they annoy someone (or more) who may take their toys with them. The only way to find them a seat is to ask an existing MP who wasn't going to stand down, to stand down. With only 11 originally elected, this is going to be tough.
The attack lines write themselves, and the loss of support from aggrevated local candidates could be significant.
I expect most of the defectors to fail to hold (any) seat they fight in.
It is simple pushing. All Mr.Johnson would have to say is, “We tried to negotiate as friends but the EU refused to accept the absolute sovereignty and continued union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Therefore I accept, with regret that, in order to maintain the union and the security of our citizens, we have to either fully leave or remain. As the referendum was to leave, this is now the policy on which the Conservative Party will fight the forthcoming election”.
Trying to encourage the opposition to vote for an election?
Classic Dom.
It’s from Amber Rudd’s now unemployed advisor.
I’ve been saying precisely this for some time. An election is very risky for the Conservatives.
I wonder if Corbyn might go for it (Oct 14) this evening, probably not but it'd certainly catch the Lib Dems and SNP off guard.
Going for it now is insane if the Tories and BXP have any chance of forming an electoral pact. The election really does need to be in November after Boris has missed his die in a ditch October 31st deadline.
How can the opposition force an election in November though ?
The FTPA still applies with 2/3 needed to force any election. Johnson has enough loyal troops to stop that if he wants it.
He will say it is all part of Boris's master plan. Boris is only pretending to be crap as PM. He will lure all the infidels into Dom's carefully crafted trap, and Boris will be proclaimed Lord Protector of Brexit and all opposition will be removed.
Trying to encourage the opposition to vote for an election?
Classic Dom.
It’s from Amber Rudd’s now unemployed advisor.
I’ve been saying precisely this for some time. An election is very risky for the Conservatives.
I wonder if Corbyn might go for it (Oct 14) this evening, probably not but it'd certainly catch the Lib Dems and SNP off guard.
Going for it now is insane if the Tories and BXP have any chance of forming an electoral pact. The election really does need to be in November after Boris has missed his die in a ditch October 31st deadline.
How can the opposition force an election in November though ?
The FTPA still applies with 2/3 needed to force any election. Johnson has enough loyal troops to stop that if he wants it.
Would Boris really vote against an election - when he could be immediately VONC with an election delayed 2 weeks.
Why didn't Boris have this meeting last week? Would probably have given him some breaking space with his remainers, or at least significantly reduced the rebellion.
I think Corbyn should go for it today, he's going to look like some weird Gov't of the Lib Dems/Labour backbenches if he doesn't. I'm not sure that's best for him - events are moving on from Boris' die in a ditch with his amusing plan to send two letters.
Trying to encourage the opposition to vote for an election?
Classic Dom.
It’s from Amber Rudd’s now unemployed advisor.
I’ve been saying precisely this for some time. An election is very risky for the Conservatives.
I wonder if Corbyn might go for it (Oct 14) this evening, probably not but it'd certainly catch the Lib Dems and SNP off guard.
Going for it now is insane if the Tories and BXP have any chance of forming an electoral pact. The election really does need to be in November after Boris has missed his die in a ditch October 31st deadline.
How can the opposition force an election in November though ?
The FTPA still applies with 2/3 needed to force any election. Johnson has enough loyal troops to stop that if he wants it.
Theoretically, the "rebel alliance" could pass a bill amending the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, with a simple majority? (Though the House of Lords probably wouldn't be as keen on that as they were on the Article 50 bill)
I think chances are there won't be an election for some time now, though.
Jason Stein will no doubt get a gig advising someone else in cabinet having 'leaked' that info. Does anyone seriously believe Boris would be pushing for an election if his internal polling were that abject?
I don’t think the EC would allow that . Because you wouldnt have a proper mandate .
Let’s say it ended up with 40 yes and 60 no. And then the second question only allows those who voted no to answer the second question . You then have stopped the 40 percent from having an opinion on what happens next .
The best way is to have two referendums . A simple straight Remain v Leave . If it’s Leave then you have a second ballot on deal v no deal . That way you get a proper mandate going forward .
The whole justification for the second in-out referendum is that people should get to choose whether they still want to do it *once they know what leave means*. So it doesn't help to have a Remain vs Leave vote, then the Deal vs no No Deal vote after that.
What would totally make sense would be to do Deal vs No Deal first to work out what Brexit means, and once you've decided what Brexit means, do That vs Remain to make sure the voters still want to do it.
The complication is that there would be an almighty bunfight about how to handle spending limits and media time, eg do the Leave campaigns cumulatively get 3x the amount that the Remain campaign does, which seems unfair, or is one of the Leave campaigns expected to run 2 rounds on the same budget that Remain had for one, which also sounds unfair, etc etc.
I think Corbyn should go for it today, he's going to look like some weird Gov't of the Lib Dems/Labour backbenches if he doesn't. I'm not sure that's best for him - events are moving on from Boris' die in a ditch with his amusing plan to send two letters.
Boris Two Letters Johnson will fail, like he has failed at everything else significant in his life.
Jason Stein will no doubt get a gig advising someone else in cabinet having 'leaked' that info. Does anyone seriously believe Boris would be pushing for an election if his internal polling were that abject?
If he was serious about an election he could VONC himself.
Some desperate last minute attempts to get the early election .Apparently no 10 have polling showing the Tories wouldn’t get a majority . Of course this is the last desperate ruse to get MPs to vote for an early general election .
Trying to encourage the opposition to vote for an election?
Classic Dom.
It’s from Amber Rudd’s now unemployed advisor.
I’ve been saying precisely this for some time. An election is very risky for the Conservatives.
I wonder if Corbyn might go for it (Oct 14) this evening, probably not but it'd certainly catch the Lib Dems and SNP off guard.
Going for it now is insane if the Tories and BXP have any chance of forming an electoral pact. The election really does need to be in November after Boris has missed his die in a ditch October 31st deadline.
Boris won't do it himself, he will let someone else do the extension if necessary
Proroguation is insane. Parliament should be sitting every bloody day until this is sorted, and Johnson's attempts to shut down dissent absolutely angers me.
Parliament has had vote after vote after vote. Debate after debate after debate. It has not achieved anything close to an understanding of what is necessary to deliver on referendum result and the manifesto commitments given at the last election.
More time isn't what they need.
Personally I would kick them all out and not let any current (or former MP) stand again.
Trying to encourage the opposition to vote for an election?
Classic Dom.
It’s from Amber Rudd’s now unemployed advisor.
I’ve been saying precisely this for some time. An election is very risky for the Conservatives.
I wonder if Corbyn might go for it (Oct 14) this evening, probably not but it'd certainly catch the Lib Dems and SNP off guard.
Going for it now is insane if the Tories and BXP have any chance of forming an electoral pact. The election really does need to be in November after Boris has missed his die in a ditch October 31st deadline.
How can the opposition force an election in November though ?
The FTPA still applies with 2/3 needed to force any election. Johnson has enough loyal troops to stop that if he wants it.
Theoretically, the "rebel alliance" could pass a bill amending the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, with a simple majority? (Though the House of Lords probably wouldn't be as keen on that as they were on the Article 50 bill)
I think chances are there won't be an election for some time now, though.
"Though the House of Lords probably wouldn't be as keen on that as they were on the Article 50 bill"
I await another Lord True filibuster attempt. His amendments saying the same thing but for England, Wales and N Ireland legal areas and taking about half an hour on each were hilarious with the Benn bill.
It is simple pushing. All Mr.Johnson would have to say is, “We tried to negotiate as friends but the EU refused to accept the absolute sovereignty and continued union of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Therefore I accept, with regret that, in order to maintain the union and the security of our citizens, we have to either fully leave or remain. As the referendum was to leave, this is now the policy on which the Conservative Party will fight the forthcoming election”.
Nigel Farage is phoney. He doesn't care about Brexit. It is just one big ego trip for him. If he got Brexit no-deal he would find something else to moan about. Perhaps it would be pulling out of NATO, or some other area that by coincidence puts a smile of the face of Putin.
Trying to encourage the opposition to vote for an election?
Classic Dom.
It’s from Amber Rudd’s now unemployed advisor.
I’ve been saying precisely this for some time. An election is very risky for the Conservatives.
I wonder if Corbyn might go for it (Oct 14) this evening, probably not but it'd certainly catch the Lib Dems and SNP off guard.
Going for it now is insane if the Tories and BXP have any chance of forming an electoral pact. The election really does need to be in November after Boris has missed his die in a ditch October 31st deadline.
How can the opposition force an election in November though ?
The FTPA still applies with 2/3 needed to force any election. Johnson has enough loyal troops to stop that if he wants it.
Theoretically, the "rebel alliance" could pass a bill amending the Fixed Term Parliaments Act, with a simple majority? (Though the House of Lords probably wouldn't be as keen on that as they were on the Article 50 bill)
I think chances are there won't be an election for some time now, though.
So we end up with a total zombie govt..the rebel alliance can take control of anything when they want..in effect they can be the govt but not actually in the departments. All the cabinet are now hostages
This is the last attempt by No10 to get the rebel alliance to call for a GE before proroguement tonight..wont work
Exactly. The use of 'we' shows Jason is a good boy doing as he is told leaking this, For all we know that's worst case scenario on their aggregated polling
POBWAS again. Not turning out to be very good really is he? He is making Gordon Brown and Theresa May look like political colossi. If it were not so serious it would be funny.
Trying to encourage the opposition to vote for an election?
Classic Dom.
It’s from Amber Rudd’s now unemployed advisor.
I’ve been saying precisely this for some time. An election is very risky for the Conservatives.
I wonder if Corbyn might go for it (Oct 14) this evening, probably not but it'd certainly catch the Lib Dems and SNP off guard.
Going for it now is insane if the Tories and BXP have any chance of forming an electoral pact. The election really does need to be in November after Boris has missed his die in a ditch October 31st deadline.
Boris won't do it himself, he will let someone else do the extension if necessary
Who?
And how does the timing fit in with the Northern Ireland Referendum and the renegotiated Withdrawal Agreement?
Farage has always outright opposed the Withdrawal Agreement, even without the backstop and so the only Tory MPs and candidates he will do a pact with are the likes of Baker, Francois and Redwood wh
Proroguation is insane. Parliament should be sitting every bloody day until this is sorted, and Johnson's attempts to shut down dissent absolutely angers me.
Parliament has had vote after vote after vote. Debate after debate after debate. It has not achieved anything close to an understanding of what is necessary to deliver on referendum result and the manifesto commitments given at the last election.
More time isn't what they need.
Personally I would kick them all out and not let any current (or former MP) stand again.
A fresh start is what we need.
You are the ghost of Robert Mugabe and I claim my £5
The existing LibDem candidate in Totnes will certainly be unhappy if she is booted out for Wollaston.
I doubt she'll be too unhappy tbh, given that she's been elected as an MEP since being selected as PPC.
I think you're wrong.
Voaden said "We can only have one candidate for Totnes. At some point a decision will be made about whether I fight the seat for Totnes or whether Sarah does, and that is a decision that the party will make, and it has not been made yet.”
She did not say "I am happy to die in a ditch for the great glory of Wollaston".
I think Corbyn should go for it today, he's going to look like some weird Gov't of the Lib Dems/Labour backbenches if he doesn't. I'm not sure that's best for him - events are moving on from Boris' die in a ditch with his amusing plan to send two letters.
I doubt it. It sets up almost the perfect election campaign for Boris, and will stop opposition parties from coordinating their moves as they move back to partisan positions and their manifestos.
Further to my discussions with others yesterday re Chuka and Westminster. Worth noting for betting purposes that all of Jo's new LDs will have to face 'he/she sat in two stints as an independent and for 3 parties in the space of 6 months, how can you trust them?' That will sway some votes, no doubt.
Wait a mo. Are they all going to stand?
Berger has ZERO hope in Liverpool Wavertree -- and it is not a good look to kick out an existing LibDem candidate in Finchley and Golders Green.
The existing LibDem candidate in Totnes will certainly be unhappy if she is booted out for Wollaston.
There are existing, hardworking candidates and there are Big Egos from other parties (who only earlier this year were taking of annihilating the LibDems).
So expect the sound of Totnes and Golders Green arms being twisted during this weekend's Bournemouth conference. And of press releases soon from local LDs saying how delighted they are to be endorsing Mesdames Wollaston and Berger.
Neither current LibDem candidate has much of a chance. Both constituencies will have Johnsonite destroyers of the local economy masquerading as Tories. Surrounded by hundreds of fellow LibDems realising how close they are to wielding serious power - and repeating every minute the awfulness of Johnsonite collaborators - the social pressure to take one for the team will be overwhelming.
Proroguation is insane. Parliament should be sitting every bloody day until this is sorted, and Johnson's attempts to shut down dissent absolutely angers me.
Parliament has had vote after vote after vote. Debate after debate after debate. It has not achieved anything close to an understanding of what is necessary to deliver on referendum result and the manifesto commitments given at the last election.
More time isn't what they need.
Personally I would kick them all out and not let any current (or former MP) stand again.
A fresh start is what we need.
Yes, you're right! Get rid. General Election. If we could, I'd agree. Prevent any existing MP standing again.
Comments
Why/
Berger has ZERO hope in Liverpool Wavertree -- and it is not a good look to kick out an existing LibDem candidate in Finchley and Golders Green.
The existing LibDem candidate in Totnes will certainly be unhappy if she is booted out for Wollaston.
There are existing, hardworking candidates and there are Big Egos from other parties (who only earlier this year were taking of annihilating the LibDems).
It goes to a vote there’s nothing the PM can do .
It would at the very least be stained with the blood of those who died as a result of No Deal
This Parliament is over
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/boris-johnson-sabotage-letter-to-eu-would-break-law/ar-AAH1oAU?ocid=spartanntp
One of the most awe inspiring places my wife and I have ever visited (and there have been many)
Will it?
Brexit is an event
Once it has happened life will go on and that will involve negotiations with other governments about many things
But that will also happen without Brexit
"Should the United Kingdom leave the European Union on the terms negotiated (Theresa May's Brexit Deal)?
Yes/No
"If the overall answer to the above is No, what should the United Kingdom do instead?"
Remain/No Deal Exit
I'm sure the Electoral Commission will need input, but this *might* work?
Classic Dom.
But May was too risk-averse.
When we looked at the two question solution before - it's possible to game 2 of the 3 solutions just by putting the options in a different order.
I’ve been saying precisely this for some time. An election is very risky for the Conservatives.
There is a likelihood that some people will die as a result of No Deal. There is a possibility that quite large numbers of people - say thousands - will die. (Just look at what has been said about the consequences regarding flu vaccine alone.)
If only Brexiteers could be forced to discuss facts, rather than presenting wishful thinking as facts, we might be in a better situation.
In fact, Brexiteers need urgently to discuss facts. They need to come up with reasoned arguments about the likely consequences of No Deal, backed up by demonstrable facts. That includes whether people are likely to die as a result, and how many. And if people are likely to die, they need to explain why that is acceptable to them.
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1171016402024718337?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed|twterm^1171016402024718337&ref_url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/sep/09/brexit-latest-news-eu-no-deal-bill-royal-assent-boris-johnson-parliament-politics-live
But only on a balance of probabilities.
Proroguation is insane. Parliament should be sitting every bloody day until this is sorted, and Johnson's attempts to shut down dissent absolutely angers me.
Labour went off the deep end three years ago. The Tories did the same three weeks ago.
The only sane national party left is the LD, and blooming heck, I'm going to have to vote for the Remainers just to try and knock some sense into the other two.
Madness.
He is basically on track. He is up in the polls and the opposition is split. The problems he has are:
1. His own disappointing performance and the negatives of e.g. the JRM meme, his brother's resignation etc.
2. The attitude of Farage to an extension.
3. The cooperation between opposition parties and the development of an effective tactical voting movement.
I suspect he's not where he hoped he would be. It shows in his face an.d body language. Drooping.
This us a briefing from a current Tory. Hes out of a job because Amber resigned not because the Tories binned him
The attack lines write themselves, and the loss of support from aggrevated local candidates could be significant.
I expect most of the defectors to fail to hold (any) seat they fight in.
The FTPA still applies with 2/3 needed to force any election. Johnson has enough loyal troops to stop that if he wants it.
I think chances are there won't be an election for some time now, though.
What would totally make sense would be to do Deal vs No Deal first to work out what Brexit means, and once you've decided what Brexit means, do That vs Remain to make sure the voters still want to do it.
The complication is that there would be an almighty bunfight about how to handle spending limits and media time, eg do the Leave campaigns cumulatively get 3x the amount that the Remain campaign does, which seems unfair, or is one of the Leave campaigns expected to run 2 rounds on the same budget that Remain had for one, which also sounds unfair, etc etc.
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/brexit/boris-johnson-sabotage-letter-to-eu-would-break-law/ar-AAH1oAU?ocid=spartanntp
He's frit.
Boris Johnson has four options to escape his Brexit mess. One of them is to go to jail.
And the PB Tory Oracles assured us he was heading for 40% plus and a big majority.
LOL.
More time isn't what they need.
Personally I would kick them all out and not let any current (or former MP) stand again.
A fresh start is what we need.
I await another Lord True filibuster attempt. His amendments saying the same thing but for England, Wales and N Ireland legal areas and taking about half an hour on each were hilarious with the Benn bill.
For all we know that's worst case scenario on their aggregated polling
And how does the timing fit in with the Northern Ireland Referendum and the renegotiated Withdrawal Agreement?
Voaden said "We can only have one candidate for Totnes. At some point a decision will be made about whether I fight the seat for Totnes or whether Sarah does, and that is a decision that the party will make, and it has not been made yet.”
She did not say "I am happy to die in a ditch for the great glory of Wollaston".
Neither current LibDem candidate has much of a chance. Both constituencies will have Johnsonite destroyers of the local economy masquerading as Tories. Surrounded by hundreds of fellow LibDems realising how close they are to wielding serious power - and repeating every minute the awfulness of Johnsonite collaborators - the social pressure to take one for the team will be overwhelming.