politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson becomes Rudderless as the Conservation broad chu
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Not a hope. He has, what, 288 MPs? Or is it 287 today? I forget.tyson said:Could Boris get us a deal that is acceptable to Parliament by the 31st? Possibly- but could he win an election immediately afterwards? Doubtful.
Corbyn will vote against anything. Ditto SNP/Plaid/LD. There's just no route there.
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Which is itself becoming increasingly marginalised and moribund and is inferior to our preferred independent governance model but may recognise the unfortunate constraints that 21stC global geopolitics places on the UK, that leaves us with some poor choices.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
My view is the UK can still do better from a more detached relationship, but it does depend on us having good governance and enhanced geopolitical diligence.1 -
Anyone remember when James Purnell was the future? Wonder what hes up to now2
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We've answered this one enough times. He is 100% loyal to the Tory leader, regardless of their policy position.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Common - Remain
Tezzie - Deal
Bozo - No Deal
Simples.0 -
Were you aware that the Conservative party was so unfit for purpose ?Casino_Royale said:
It would have been resolved by the time of the next election (GE2022) as the WA gave enough clarity on the PD for a full permanent FTA to be negotiated within the transition period. Business would have had certainty and we'd have had a basis to build on without this ongoing uncertainty and rebuild our web of trading relationships in the world.Peter_the_Punter said:
Well certainly a damn sight smoother. It would however still have dragged on.Casino_Royale said:
It would have been smooth and managed had politicians voted for the WA.Peter_the_Punter said:
True, but the public did vote for it. It was naive to think it would be as easy as flicking a switch, even if some politicians implied it would be.TGOHF said:
And the public are sick of Brexit.kle4 said:
It starts and ends with: another Brexit extension will ruin the party, and must be avoided at all costs.glw said:
Much of current Tory thinking is now inexplicable to me.Peter_the_Punter said:It is astonishing and a somewhat depressing to find that even on an enlightened forum like this, it appears necessary to argue that the law should be obeyed, and that applies to the PM as much as anybody.
All else flows from that.
I think if we do Brexit in any way shape or form, a lot of people are going to be very surprised to find it is not all over, but only just beginning. These people will include many who are currently aching for politicians to 'get it over with'.
As it is, now, it will be viscous and destructive for a long time to come due to utter dickheads on both sides.0 -
That sounds a lot like the tone of Cummings's articles at the Spectator - probably straight from the horses's mouth himself.Gallowgate said:Is the government planning to sign us up to the Euro or something?
https://twitter.com/paulbranditv/status/1170458778787090432?s=210 -
B
I really fear for my country.ydoethur said:
I agree with all of that. But then, even though I am not a lawyer, I also like to think of myself as fairly well-informed on political matters.Cyclefree said:FPT
@ydoethur said:
"I think one point we are all forgetting - particularly when looking at the polling - is that acts that are illegal, unconstitutional or downright crazy are not necessarily unpopular. A few obvious examples spring to mind - Bonar Law's support for the UVF, Thatcher's use of the police without showing their numbers in the miners' strike, George III sacking Portland in 1783. And that's just in this country - de Gaulle's coup in 1958 would also be a good example. The key was the people doing the rule breaking were popular and those being hammered were not.
Johnson remains personally popular due to his TV appearances, and he is offering to leave the EU which, like it or not, whether its supporters know what they're doing or not, is a popular programme. So the fact he is breaking every rule in the book and a number that aren't may not condemn him as it should."
My response:-
Indeed. It is one reason why I think his approach could win him the next GE.
But it is still wrong. Breaking the law is wrong. And having a government which does this degrades our polity, degrades our country and should be criticised. Morality and legality do not depend on popularity. They matter more - in the end - than popularity. Without integrity we are nothing as a people or as a country, however unfashionable or unpopular it may be to say so.
Unfortunately, all Johnson and Cummings care about is popularity. They are both interested solely in votes, neither have any principles, and both of them for all their expensive education have no understanding of the theory or history of government and how it has evolved over time. They are closer to Corbyn and Chavez than Theresa May and Kenneth Clarke.
What should really give both Johnson and for that matter Bercow pause is the number of very alarming precedents they are setting that could be exploited should Corbyn or someone even more dangerous like Lavery become PM. But it won't, because they are incapable of thinking more than about a minute ahead.0 -
Very unlikely if all we are asking for is an(other) extension - until Boris the game everyone was playing was one of avoiding the blame for the end result. And the EU at least still don't want the blame so will do anything to avoid it (after all that's Boris's entire negotiation ploy).TGOHF said:
What if the EU and the Uk can’t agree an extension ?tyson said:
The law of the land now says in statute that we cannot leave by October 31st without first asking the EU for permission for an extension.TGOHF said:So what does Jezza do if Boris wangles us out with no deal or a deal on 31/10 and there is no change in the polls.
Hide until 2022 ?
Could Boris get us a deal that is acceptable to Parliament by the 31st? Possibly- but could he win an election immediately afterwards? Doubtful.
Boris's winning strategy is going for bust as being the party of No Deal and unifying the Conservative and Brexit vote under FPTP.
Very possible.0 -
If Corbyn Labour agreed PR then the LDs would almost certainly replace them as the main party of the centre left within an election or 2, while the Tories could split between a Mayite centre right anti No Deal Party and an enlarged populist right Brexit Party.Black_Rook said:
At this stage we can reasonably set fire to all the polls and let them burn.HYUFD said:No poll has the SNP alone giving Corbyn Labour a majority, even Panelbase, Corbyn needs the LDs for a majority and Swinson would veto indyref2 and a Corbyn premiership
Realistically, the Lib Dems would probably tolerate a Corbyn Government but veto any really silly Hard Left economic ideas (so nationalisations and more sumptuary taxes for the wealthy could pass, but any form of expropriation would not.) The price exacted, beyond the second EU referendum that Labour would happily concede anyway, would be PR for Westminster.
I dare say that Swinson would rather not treat with Corbyn at all, but if she finds herself holding the balance of power then she will have to choose between selling her support to Labour on reasonable terms - and Labour won't be forming a Government with anyone other than Corbyn at its head - or decline to support anyone and force yet another General Election that voters really, really would not want.
But we really are getting ahead of ourselves here.
PR would kill off any chance of Corbyn ever getting a majority Labour government and probably kill off his chances of ever even becoming PM too so he won't0 -
I suspect the one nation tories have less than a month to no confidence Boris before the Brexit/Conservative parties merge.1
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Surely the smart thing for Boris to do is to recommend Corbyn as PM so he can sign the document.0
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I don't know what he wants. But I'm very worried about the straws in the wind from cabinet (and elsewhere) that he's not really serious about a deal. I think he'll do what's best for his own career, at the end of the day.Pulpstar said:@Casino_Royale I don't believe Boris would go for "No deal". Plan A was to try and get a big majority on the 14th so he could push through May's deal with an NI only backstop in it.
He can't say that's what he wanted to do though as he is obviously trying to hoover up Brexit Party votes.
My issue is I don't trust him and I don't respect him. We'll only really know once he's done it and we find out, and he could take and interpret a mandate any way he likes.
So I'm going to find it really hard to vote Conservative with a clean conscience at the next election with him as PM.1 -
"BBC's Director of Radio and Education"dyedwoolie said:Anyone remember when James Purnell was the future? Wonder what hes up to now
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Purnell0 -
I thought there was a story that remain mp's had got an agreement to extend with the EU?TGOHF said:
What if the EU and the Uk can’t agree an extension ?tyson said:
The law of the land now says in statute that we cannot leave by October 31st without first asking the EU for permission for an extension.TGOHF said:So what does Jezza do if Boris wangles us out with no deal or a deal on 31/10 and there is no change in the polls.
Hide until 2022 ?
Could Boris get us a deal that is acceptable to Parliament by the 31st? Possibly- but could he win an election immediately afterwards? Doubtful.
Boris's winning strategy is going for bust as being the party of No Deal and unifying the Conservative and Brexit vote under FPTP.
Very possible.
Isn't that what all the "traitors" exchange was about earlier?0 -
Tories went beserk over May being willing to talk to Corbyn as it 'legitimised' him, as ridiculous as that is. How can they happily let him become PM, however temporarily?AndyJS said:Surely the smart thing for Boris to do is to recommend Corbyn as PM so he can sign the document.
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Or maybe even less. I'd be hard-pressed to believe that the Brexit Party doesn't figure in Cumming's plans to "melt" people's reactions over the next couple of weeks.noneoftheabove said:I suspect the one nation tories have less than a month to no confidence Boris before the Brexit/Conservative parties merge.
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Sorry, I wrote Leave when I meant Remain. It's been a long day.HYUFD said:
Then they can be the party of the 9% again as they were in the European elections, maybe even ask Theresa back as leader while the remaining 3/4 of the party now joins the Brexit Party.SandyRentool said:
I don't think that goes far enough. Any member of the Conservatives who voted Leave in the referendum should be expelled from the party at once.HYUFD said:
Any Tory MP who opposes Boris and backs further extension must now be expelled from the Tory party and immediately deselected as a Tory candidate, not just suspended or have the whip withdrawn, as Comres tonight shows if the Tories extend again that hands Labour the keys to No 10 and sees Tory Leave voters surge to the Brexit Party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is true but I am not saying that. If the rebels which must now be near a majority can take Boris down and a senior mp (not leader) takes over and serves the extension, a GE can take place immediatelyBeibheirli_C said:
No. Labour should lay a VoNC after Parliament returns. Why should they give Boris an election before Brexit?Big_G_NorthWales said:On Monday labour should lay a vonc in the government and the rebels agree to appointing Ken Clarke to head a unity government
If they don't they are failing to protect our Country from a terrible fate and they will not be forgiven
I suspect you can take Big_G out of the Tories but you cannot take the Tory out of Big_G...
I am sure Cummings agrees with me
Good luck trying to win any MPs under FPTP with that though, certainly beyond Theresa and Philip
I'll try again: Anyone who voted Remain should be expelled from the Tories.0 -
The world's 55th favourite airline?AndyJS said:
Hope you're not flying British Airways.rcs1000 said:
Oh, I live in Los Angeles most of the time. But I'm heading back to London nowBlack_Rook said:
Travelling into and around central London for any reason is stressful enough. I need a really good one to persuade me to bother.rcs1000 said:
You can't trick me into leaving zone one; I'm not that stupid.Byronic said:
If you jump on a Metropolitan line in central London - Aldgate or King's X say - and follow the line to its ultimate conclusion in Amersham, where the Chilterns begin, you step out of the station into a country town, and if you are lucky there will be magnificent red kites wheeling and screeching above you, even as you put away your Oyster card.Pro_Rata said:
My photographic miss was Torness Power Station about 6 or 7 years ago, framed in its entirety by a prominent rainbow. That was merely on a rail replacement service though.ydoethur said:
When I did the far northern line, I saw three - three! - golden eagles.Sunil_Prasannan said:Just came back from Scotland after probably my most epic week of railway geekery ever!
On Monday evening did Stirling to Alloa, as well as Camelon (near Falkirk) to Larbert.
Tuesday did Craigendoran to Oban (one of the West Highland Lines)
Wednesday did Ladybank to Perth and Aviemore to Inverness
Thursday did Crianlarich to Mallaig (the other West Highland)
Friday did Leuchars to Dundee to Aberdeen
And finally today did the loop from Inverkeithing round to Kirkcaldy via Cowdenbeath
That just leaves Inverness to Kyle, Inverness to Thurso and Wick, and Inverness to Aberdeen for me to complete the normal weekday National Rail network of Great Britain!
But will probably will wait until the days get longer again in the spring, though.
And on every fecking occasion my camera wasn't ready...
It's a glorious transition. Very poetic.
Actually living there must be indescribably awful. You have my sympathies.
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Does anybody else fear The Speaker is ultimately the protagonist of all this turmoil?
His behaviour during his entire reign has been very political. I fear that all future speakers will now be installed for their political bias rather than their suitability for the role.1 -
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.
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Ah yes there he blows!AndyJS said:
"BBC's Director of Radio and Education"dyedwoolie said:Anyone remember when James Purnell was the future? Wonder what hes up to now
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Purnell0 -
I'm going to consider it, I think the tactics of the opposition are more about electoral advantage than preventing "No deal", but I'm as sui generis as they come with my political thoughts.Casino_Royale said:
I don't know what he wants. But I'm very worried about the straws in the wind from cabinet (and elsewhere) that he's not really serious about a deal. I think he'll do what's best for his own career, at the end of the day.Pulpstar said:@Casino_Royale I don't believe Boris would go for "No deal". Plan A was to try and get a big majority on the 14th so he could push through May's deal with an NI only backstop in it.
He can't say that's what he wanted to do though as he is obviously trying to hoover up Brexit Party votes.
My issue is I don't trust him and I don't respect him. We'll only really know once he's done it and we find out, and he could take and interpret a mandate any way he likes.
So I'm going to find it really hard to vote Conservative with a clean conscience at the next election with him as PM.0 -
Why do you think Labour wanted him and refused to act when his bad behaviour became apparent.beentheredonethat said:Does anybody else fear The Speaker is ultimately the protagonist of all this turmoil?
His behaviour during his entire reign has been very political. I fear that all future speakers will now be installed for their political bias rather than their suitability for the role.1 -
Yep.beentheredonethat said:Does anybody else fear The Speaker is ultimately the protagonist of all this turmoil?
His behaviour during his entire reign has been very political. I fear that all future speakers will now be installed for their political bias rather than their suitability for the role.
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Things change.kle4 said:
Tories went beserk over May being willing to talk to Corbyn as it 'legitimised' him, as ridiculous as that is. How can they happily let him become PM, however temporarily?AndyJS said:Surely the smart thing for Boris to do is to recommend Corbyn as PM so he can sign the document.
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Actually, over 200 Conservatives responsibly backed the WA on its first pass. It's the ERG and DUP who headbanged against it, and the Opposition who opportunistically decided to vote against it for partisan advantage.another_richard said:
Were you aware that the Conservative party was so unfit for purpose ?Casino_Royale said:
It would have been resolved by the time of the next election (GE2022) as the WA gave enough clarity on the PD for a full permanent FTA to be negotiated within the transition period. Business would have had certainty and we'd have had a basis to build on without this ongoing uncertainty and rebuild our web of trading relationships in the world.Peter_the_Punter said:
Well certainly a damn sight smoother. It would however still have dragged on.Casino_Royale said:
It would have been smooth and managed had politicians voted for the WA.Peter_the_Punter said:
True, but the public did vote for it. It was naive to think it would be as easy as flicking a switch, even if some politicians implied it would be.TGOHF said:
And the public are sick of Brexit.kle4 said:
It starts and ends with: another Brexit extension will ruin the party, and must be avoided at all costs.glw said:
Much of current Tory thinking is now inexplicable to me.Peter_the_Punter said:It is astonishing and a somewhat depressing to find that even on an enlightened forum like this, it appears necessary to argue that the law should be obeyed, and that applies to the PM as much as anybody.
All else flows from that.
I think if we do Brexit in any way shape or form, a lot of people are going to be very surprised to find it is not all over, but only just beginning. These people will include many who are currently aching for politicians to 'get it over with'.
As it is, now, it will be viscous and destructive for a long time to come due to utter dickheads on both sides.
A few of the ERG woke up a little bit in subsequent "rounds" but not enough to pass it, because by then the damage to it's reputation had been done. By them. It was shredded.
I have zero respect for the Spartans. None. They are not very bright school bullies with huge egos. They are the ones who should be kicked out. Grieve has also been destructive (from the other wing) but you cannot say that about Hammond and Gauke.3 -
Cummings war-gamed the icebergStuartDickson said:
As “planned” as the sinking of the Titanic.AndyJS said:It's all going to Dominic Cummings' plan. Total chaos.
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Regardless of whose fault it is, I am quite sure that is how future Speakers will be appointed. We've seen how useful it is to have the Speaker on side.beentheredonethat said:Does anybody else fear The Speaker is ultimately the protagonist of all this turmoil?
His behaviour during his entire reign has been very political. I fear that all future speakers will now be installed for their political bias rather than their suitability for the role.0 -
Noone with the Tory or DUP whip will support Corbyn in a confidence motion. Right now that's a minority of the House of Commons though.kle4 said:
Tories went beserk over May being willing to talk to Corbyn as it 'legitimised' him, as ridiculous as that is. How can they happily let him become PM, however temporarily?AndyJS said:Surely the smart thing for Boris to do is to recommend Corbyn as PM so he can sign the document.
If Boris resigns though the palace HAS to send for Corbyn as LoTO first up I believe though others have different ideas about this.0 -
I've already swung back to the Lib Dems. Never mind the whole Leave/Remain farrago: if there's only one available party left that doesn't terrify you, then it makes no sense to back anybody else.Casino_Royale said:
I don't know what he wants. But I'm very worried about the straws in the wind from cabinet (and elsewhere) that he's not really serious about a deal. I think he'll do what's best for his own career, at the end of the day.Pulpstar said:@Casino_Royale I don't believe Boris would go for "No deal". Plan A was to try and get a big majority on the 14th so he could push through May's deal with an NI only backstop in it.
He can't say that's what he wanted to do though as he is obviously trying to hoover up Brexit Party votes.
My issue is I don't trust him and I don't respect him. We'll only really know once he's done it and we find out, and he could take and interpret a mandate any way he likes.
So I'm going to find it really hard to vote Conservative with a clean conscience at the next election with him as PM.0 -
I'm confused because I thought people from different European nations could live in each other's countries before the existence of the EU or EEC. Maybe no-one bothered to stop them because it was a relatively small number of people at the time.tyson said:
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.0 -
As he becomes Neville Chamberlain to Labour Leave voterskle4 said:
Tories went beserk over May being willing to talk to Corbyn as it 'legitimised' him, as ridiculous as that is. How can they happily let him become PM, however temporarily?AndyJS said:Surely the smart thing for Boris to do is to recommend Corbyn as PM so he can sign the document.
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I don't want the Remainers to win either. I want a moderate Leave.Philip_Thompson said:
I respect that.Casino_Royale said:
Is it?Philip_Thompson said:
Boris failed because the Remainers in Parliament frustrated him. That is why its critical every Leaver backs the Tories so that the Remainers don't win again.eek said:
Boris failed - what else matters.Philip_Thompson said:
The problem with these hypotheticals is it doesn't say why the election is post-Halloween or how people acted between now and then.Gallowgate said:
Easy sales pitch.
If Boris thinks he can take my support for granted he's got another thing coming.
But if you don't vote for him then that is helping the Remainers win. If you're happy with that then that's your choice and I don't condemn it.
If I can be convinced that's still the plan, then he's got my vote but I'm not going to be party to scorched earth.
It's more important to me that I can look myself in the mirror each day.0 -
But not Corbyn's clear unsuitabilitynoneoftheabove said:
Things change.kle4 said:
Tories went beserk over May being willing to talk to Corbyn as it 'legitimised' him, as ridiculous as that is. How can they happily let him become PM, however temporarily?AndyJS said:Surely the smart thing for Boris to do is to recommend Corbyn as PM so he can sign the document.
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OMRLP?Black_Rook said:
I've already swung back to the Lib Dems. Never mind the whole Leave/Remain farrago: if there's only one available party left that doesn't terrify you, then it makes no sense to back anybody else.Casino_Royale said:
I don't know what he wants. But I'm very worried about the straws in the wind from cabinet (and elsewhere) that he's not really serious about a deal. I think he'll do what's best for his own career, at the end of the day.Pulpstar said:@Casino_Royale I don't believe Boris would go for "No deal". Plan A was to try and get a big majority on the 14th so he could push through May's deal with an NI only backstop in it.
He can't say that's what he wanted to do though as he is obviously trying to hoover up Brexit Party votes.
My issue is I don't trust him and I don't respect him. We'll only really know once he's done it and we find out, and he could take and interpret a mandate any way he likes.
So I'm going to find it really hard to vote Conservative with a clean conscience at the next election with him as PM.
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If you've flown with them recently you would understand why. At least Ryanair and Easyjet are honest about how they now work..Floater said:
The world's 55th favourite airline?AndyJS said:
Hope you're not flying British Airways.rcs1000 said:
Oh, I live in Los Angeles most of the time. But I'm heading back to London nowBlack_Rook said:
Travelling into and around central London for any reason is stressful enough. I need a really good one to persuade me to bother.rcs1000 said:
You can't trick me into leaving zone one; I'm not that stupid.Byronic said:
If you jump on a Metropolitan line in central London - Aldgate or King's X say - and follow the line to its ultimate conclusion in Amersham, where the Chilterns begin, you step out of the station into a country town, and if you are lucky there will be magnificent red kites wheeling and screeching above you, even as you put away your Oyster card.Pro_Rata said:
My photographic miss was Torness Power Station about 6 or 7 years ago, framed in its entirety by a prominent rainbow. That was merely on a rail replacement service though.ydoethur said:
When I did the far northern line, I saw three - three! - golden eagles.Sunil_Prasannan said:Just came back from Scotland after probably my most epic week of railway geekery ever!
On Monday evening did Stirling to Alloa, as well as Camelon (near Falkirk) to Larbert.
Tuesday did Craigendoran to Oban (one of the West Highland Lines)
Wednesday did Ladybank to Perth and Aviemore to Inverness
Thursday did Crianlarich to Mallaig (the other West Highland)
Friday did Leuchars to Dundee to Aberdeen
And finally today did the loop from Inverkeithing round to Kirkcaldy via Cowdenbeath
That just leaves Inverness to Kyle, Inverness to Thurso and Wick, and Inverness to Aberdeen for me to complete the normal weekday National Rail network of Great Britain!
But will probably will wait until the days get longer again in the spring, though.
And on every fecking occasion my camera wasn't ready...
It's a glorious transition. Very poetic.
Actually living there must be indescribably awful. You have my sympathies.0 -
Too late, even if they won a VONC in Boris the membership would just elect Raab instead now and the ERG and Boris loyalists would block a coronation for an anti No Deal, pro extension leader.noneoftheabove said:I suspect the one nation tories have less than a month to no confidence Boris before the Brexit/Conservative parties merge.
However Boris still backs the Withdrawal Agreement provided the backstop is replaced by a technical alternative unlike Farage, he just prefers No Deal and delivering Brexit to further extension0 -
How prevalent do you think this is?Black_Rook said:
I've already swung back to the Lib Dems. Never mind the whole Leave/Remain farrago: if there's only one available party left that doesn't terrify you, then it makes no sense to back anybody else.Casino_Royale said:
I don't know what he wants. But I'm very worried about the straws in the wind from cabinet (and elsewhere) that he's not really serious about a deal. I think he'll do what's best for his own career, at the end of the day.Pulpstar said:@Casino_Royale I don't believe Boris would go for "No deal". Plan A was to try and get a big majority on the 14th so he could push through May's deal with an NI only backstop in it.
He can't say that's what he wanted to do though as he is obviously trying to hoover up Brexit Party votes.
My issue is I don't trust him and I don't respect him. We'll only really know once he's done it and we find out, and he could take and interpret a mandate any way he likes.
So I'm going to find it really hard to vote Conservative with a clean conscience at the next election with him as PM.0 -
Even the Lib Dems are at risk from entryists.Black_Rook said:I've already swung back to the Lib Dems. Never mind the whole Leave/Remain farrago: if there's only one available party left that doesn't terrify you, then it makes no sense to back anybody else.
0 -
According to the Mail, Jacob Rees-Mogg once asked Louise Mensch to marry him.0
-
tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brex also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voHYUFD said:
It is barngEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
That's just sad. Never let politics get in the way of human relationships. If they'd become Nazis or Maoists, fair enough, but mere Brexiteers?tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
0 -
which would make them unstoppablenoneoftheabove said:I suspect the one nation tories have less than a month to no confidence Boris before the Brexit/Conservative parties merge.
0 -
Yes, the people doing the moaning then will have changed their tune because their complaints were phony and more about their anger at May.noneoftheabove said:
Things change.kle4 said:
Tories went beserk over May being willing to talk to Corbyn as it 'legitimised' him, as ridiculous as that is. How can they happily let him become PM, however temporarily?AndyJS said:Surely the smart thing for Boris to do is to recommend Corbyn as PM so he can sign the document.
0 -
His clear unsuitability hasnt changed at all.Floater said:
But not Corbyn's clear unsuitabilitynoneoftheabove said:
Things change.kle4 said:
Tories went beserk over May being willing to talk to Corbyn as it 'legitimised' him, as ridiculous as that is. How can they happily let him become PM, however temporarily?AndyJS said:Surely the smart thing for Boris to do is to recommend Corbyn as PM so he can sign the document.
His relative unsuitability whilst constrained by others vs the incumbant has changed 180 for me.0 -
This sort of stuff is existential, though. Deeply sad, but it exposes deep faultlines :-(Byronic said:tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brex also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voHYUFD said:
It is barngEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
That's just sad. Never let politics get in the way of human relationships. If they'd become Nazis or Maoists, fair enough, but mere Brexiteers?tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
0 -
I can't vote Lib Dem. No way. I'm a traditional Tory, and the yellow peril really grate my cheese.Black_Rook said:
I've already swung back to the Lib Dems. Never mind the whole Leave/Remain farrago: if there's only one available party left that doesn't terrify you, then it makes no sense to back anybody else.Casino_Royale said:
I don't know what he wants. But I'm very worried about the straws in the wind from cabinet (and elsewhere) that he's not really serious about a deal. I think he'll do what's best for his own career, at the end of the day.Pulpstar said:@Casino_Royale I don't believe Boris would go for "No deal". Plan A was to try and get a big majority on the 14th so he could push through May's deal with an NI only backstop in it.
He can't say that's what he wanted to do though as he is obviously trying to hoover up Brexit Party votes.
My issue is I don't trust him and I don't respect him. We'll only really know once he's done it and we find out, and he could take and interpret a mandate any way he likes.
So I'm going to find it really hard to vote Conservative with a clean conscience at the next election with him as PM.
However, I might be open to providing the returning officer with some amusement during the count.0 -
I am afraid Tyson lost all sense of perspective long ago. He is one of the true extremists.Byronic said:
That's just sad. Never let politics get in the way of human relationships. If they'd become Nazis or Maoists, fair enough, but mere Brexiteers?tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
0 -
Bloody Orange Bookersglw said:
Even the Lib Dems are at risk from entryists.Black_Rook said:I've already swung back to the Lib Dems. Never mind the whole Leave/Remain farrago: if there's only one available party left that doesn't terrify you, then it makes no sense to back anybody else.
0 -
I fly whenever possible with BA. not a fan of the food downgrade but the staff, whether on the phone, groundside, or onboard are awesome. That makes up for an awful lot.eek said:
If you've flown with them recently you would understand why. At least Ryanair and Easyjet are honest about how they now work..Floater said:
The world's 55th favourite airline?AndyJS said:
Hope you're not flying British Airways.rcs1000 said:
Oh, I live in Los Angeles most of the time. But I'm heading back to London nowBlack_Rook said:
Travelling into and around central London for any reason is stressful enough. I need a really good one to persuade me to bother.rcs1000 said:
You can't trick me into leaving zone one; I'm not that stupid.Byronic said:
If you jump on a Metropolitan line in central London - Aldgate or King's X say - and follow the line to its ultimate conclusion in Amersham, where the Chilterns begin, you step out of the station into a country town, and if you are lucky there will be magnificent red kites wheeling and screeching above you, even as you put away your Oyster card.Pro_Rata said:
My photographic miss was Torness Power Station about 6 or 7 years ago, framed in its entirety by a prominent rainbow. That was merely on a rail replacement service though.ydoethur said:
When I did the far northern line, I saw three - three! - golden eagles.Sunil_Prasannan said:Just came back from Scotland after probably my most epic week of railway geekery ever!
On Monday evening did Stirling to Alloa, as well as Camelon (near Falkirk) to Larbert.
Tuesday did Craigendoran to Oban (one of the West Highland Lines)
Wednesday did Ladybank to Perth and Aviemore to Inverness
Thursday did Crianlarich to Mallaig (the other West Highland)
Friday did Leuchars to Dundee to Aberdeen
And finally today did the loop from Inverkeithing round to Kirkcaldy via Cowdenbeath
That just leaves Inverness to Kyle, Inverness to Thurso and Wick, and Inverness to Aberdeen for me to complete the normal weekday National Rail network of Great Britain!
But will probably will wait until the days get longer again in the spring, though.
And on every fecking occasion my camera wasn't ready...
It's a glorious transition. Very poetic.
Actually living there must be indescribably awful. You have my sympathies.
0 -
No, provided they back Brexit Deal or No Deal Remainers are still welcome in the ToriesSandyRentool said:
Sorry, I wrote Leave when I meant Remain. It's been a long day.HYUFD said:
Then they can be the party of the 9% again as they were in the European elections, maybe even ask Theresa back as leader while the remaining 3/4 of the party now joins the Brexit Party.SandyRentool said:
I don't think that goes far enough. Any member of the Conservatives who voted Leave in the referendum should be expelled from the party at once.HYUFD said:
Any Tory MP who opposes Boris and backs further extension must now be expelled from the Tory party and immediately deselected as a Tory candidate, not just suspended or have the whip withdrawn, as Comres tonight shows if the Tories extend again that hands Labour the keys to No 10 and sees Tory Leave voters surge to the Brexit Party.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Well that is true but I am not saying that. If the rebels which must now be near a majority can take Boris down and a senior mp (not leader) takes over and serves the extension, a GE can take place immediatelyBeibheirli_C said:
No. Labour should lay a VoNC after Parliament returns. Why should they give Boris an election before Brexit?Big_G_NorthWales said:On Monday labour should lay a vonc in the government and the rebels agree to appointing Ken Clarke to head a unity government
If they don't they are failing to protect our Country from a terrible fate and they will not be forgiven
I suspect you can take Big_G out of the Tories but you cannot take the Tory out of Big_G...
I am sure Cummings agrees with me
Good luck trying to win any MPs under FPTP with that though, certainly beyond Theresa and Philip
I'll try again: Anyone who voted Remain should be expelled from the Tories.0 -
You have some weird ones. Like leave the EU but then join the Euro!Pulpstar said:
I'm going to consider it, I think the tactics of the opposition are more about electoral advantage than preventing "No deal", but I'm as sui generis as they come with my political thoughts.Casino_Royale said:
I don't know what he wants. But I'm very worried about the straws in the wind from cabinet (and elsewhere) that he's not really serious about a deal. I think he'll do what's best for his own career, at the end of the day.Pulpstar said:@Casino_Royale I don't believe Boris would go for "No deal". Plan A was to try and get a big majority on the 14th so he could push through May's deal with an NI only backstop in it.
He can't say that's what he wanted to do though as he is obviously trying to hoover up Brexit Party votes.
My issue is I don't trust him and I don't respect him. We'll only really know once he's done it and we find out, and he could take and interpret a mandate any way he likes.
So I'm going to find it really hard to vote Conservative with a clean conscience at the next election with him as PM.0 -
Oxford is full of like-minded people, who suit you better? Would that be because, as you previously described it, Oxford is "hideously white"?tyson said:
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.0 -
In February 2013 Purnell left the IPPR in order to rejoin the BBC as its Director of Strategy, on a salary of £295,000AndyJS said:
"BBC's Director of Radio and Education"dyedwoolie said:Anyone remember when James Purnell was the future? Wonder what hes up to now
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Purnell
Was that the job which wasn't advertised but just given to Purnell ?
Other interesting bits from wiki:
In December 2008, Purnell proposed charging interest on crisis loans to the unemployed and pensioners made by the Department for Work and Pensions, which were interest-free, at a rate of up to 26.8% per annum.
He told the parliamentary authorities that his main home was in Manchester and claimed the "second home" allowance for his flat in London. In October 2004, he sold his London flat but told HM Revenue and Customs it was his "principal home", not his "second home".
Whilst renting a flat between 2004 and 2006, Purnell claimed £100 a month for cleaning expenses and £586 for repairs. At the end of the lease, the landlord kept the £2,520 deposit, claiming the flat to have been in a poor state.
Purnell also claimed £247 for 3,000 fridge magnets.0 -
Perhaps, perhaps not.PrinceofTaranto said:
which would make them unstoppablenoneoftheabove said:I suspect the one nation tories have less than a month to no confidence Boris before the Brexit/Conservative parties merge.
0 -
Hammond, for his lack of No Deal prep, should be in front of a hearing somewhere. He is worse than Grieve in my book.Casino_Royale said:
Actually, over 200 Conservatives responsibly backed the WA on its first pass. It's the ERG and DUP who headbanged against it, and the Opposition who opportunistically decided to vote against it for partisan advantage.another_richard said:
Were you aware that the Conservative party was so unfit for purpose ?Casino_Royale said:
It would have been resolved by the time of the next election (GE2022) as the WA gave enough clarity on the PD for a full permanent FTA to be negotiated within the transition period. Business would have had certainty and we'd have had a basis to build on without this ongoing uncertainty and rebuild our web of trading relationships in the world.Peter_the_Punter said:
Well certainly a damn sight smoother. It would however still have dragged on.Casino_Royale said:
It would have been smooth and managed had politicians voted for the WA.Peter_the_Punter said:
True, but the public did vote for it. It was naive to think it would be as easy as flicking a switch, even if some politicians implied it would be.TGOHF said:
And the public are sick of Brexit.kle4 said:
It starts and ends with: another Brexit extension will ruin the party, and must be avoided at all costs.glw said:
Much of current Tory thinking is now inexplicable to me.Peter_the_Punter said:It is astonishing and a somewhat depressing to find that even on an enlightened forum like this, it appears necessary to argue that the law should be obeyed, and that applies to the PM as much as anybody.
All else flows from that.
I think if we do Brexit in any way shape or form, a lot of people are going to be very surprised to find it is not all over, but only just beginning. These people will include many who are currently aching for politicians to 'get it over with'.
As it is, now, it will be viscous and destructive for a long time to come due to utter dickheads on both sides.
A few of the ERG woke up a little bit in subsequent "rounds" but not enough to pass it, because by then the damage to it's reputation had been done. By them. It was shredded.
I have zero respect for the Spartans. None. They are not very bright school bullies with huge egos. They are the ones who should be kicked out. Grieve has also been destructive (from the other wing) but you cannot say that about Hammond and Gauke.1 -
To be honest there's not that much difference beetween the "before and after" result with ComRes.
Certainly not enough for Labour to be denying the people a general election...0 -
Christ.williamglenn said:According to the Mail, Jacob Rees-Mogg once asked Louise Mensch to marry him.
0 -
Plus even Oxford was 30% Leave, it is not a Leaver free zoneByronic said:
Oxford is full of like-minded people, who suit you better? Would that be because, as you previously described it, Oxford is "hideously white"?tyson said:
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.0 -
AFAIK the outgoing Prime Minister can recommend anyone that they like. In practice, as we can now all appreciate, nobody can command the confidence of the House and Johnson is only still in place because it's in the common interest of his opponents to try to force him to comply with the Benn Act.Pulpstar said:
Noone with the Tory or DUP whip will support Corbyn in a confidence motion. Right now that's a minority of the House of Commons though.kle4 said:
Tories went beserk over May being willing to talk to Corbyn as it 'legitimised' him, as ridiculous as that is. How can they happily let him become PM, however temporarily?AndyJS said:Surely the smart thing for Boris to do is to recommend Corbyn as PM so he can sign the document.
If Boris resigns though the palace HAS to send for Corbyn as LoTO first up I believe though others have different ideas about this.
Therefore, should Johnson resign it ought to be sufficient to force a General Election via the VONC process mandated under the FTPA. The Lib Dems and the bulk of the independent MPs won't back Corbyn as PM, and Corbyn won't back any alternative to himself.0 -
Its not their choice - Boris doesn't lead a functioning government so it will have to resign.kle4 said:
Tories went beserk over May being willing to talk to Corbyn as it 'legitimised' him, as ridiculous as that is. How can they happily let him become PM, however temporarily?AndyJS said:Surely the smart thing for Boris to do is to recommend Corbyn as PM so he can sign the document.
Anyway they could always blame the 'Tory Traitors'.0 -
It would make the election far easier for Labour and the Lib Dems to plan..noneoftheabove said:
Perhaps, perhaps not.PrinceofTaranto said:
which would make them unstoppablenoneoftheabove said:I suspect the one nation tories have less than a month to no confidence Boris before the Brexit/Conservative parties merge.
0 -
Sure. I know quite a few friendships and family relationships which have been imperilled by Brexit. Again, this is why it is nearer to revolution than any ordinary political event. The English Civil War did the same to people.Tabman said:
This sort of stuff is existential, though. Deeply sad, but it exposes deep faultlines :-(Byronic said:tyson said:
Thaut this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brex also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voHYUFD said:
It is barngEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
That's just sad. Never let politics get in the way of human relationships. If they'd become Nazis or Maoists, fair enough, but mere Brexiteers?tyson said:
T three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
For my part, both my family and my friends have adopted the policy of Don't Talk About It. We know we differ, but we value our relationships more. It's a good policy, if you can stick to it.0 -
He was just an inbetweener.williamglenn said:According to the Mail, Jacob Rees-Mogg once asked Louise Mensch to marry him.
0 -
And 24% of Boston voted Remain. What’s your point?HYUFD said:
Plus even Oxford was 30% Leave, it is not a Leaver free zoneByronic said:
Oxford is full of like-minded people, who suit you better? Would that be because, as you previously described it, Oxford is "hideously white"?tyson said:
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.0 -
That last detail is sensational. Genuinely the best information of the night.another_richard said:
In February 2013 Purnell left the IPPR in order to rejoin the BBC as its Director of Strategy, on a salary of £295,000AndyJS said:
"BBC's Director of Radio and Education"dyedwoolie said:Anyone remember when James Purnell was the future? Wonder what hes up to now
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Purnell
Was that the job which wasn't advertised but just given to Purnell ?
Other interesting bits from wiki:
In December 2008, Purnell proposed charging interest on crisis loans to the unemployed and pensioners made by the Department for Work and Pensions, which were interest-free, at a rate of up to 26.8% per annum.
He told the parliamentary authorities that his main home was in Manchester and claimed the "second home" allowance for his flat in London. In October 2004, he sold his London flat but told HM Revenue and Customs it was his "principal home", not his "second home".
Whilst renting a flat between 2004 and 2006, Purnell claimed £100 a month for cleaning expenses and £586 for repairs. At the end of the lease, the landlord kept the £2,520 deposit, claiming the flat to have been in a poor state.
Purnell also claimed £247 for 3,000 fridge magnets.0 -
It's possible to reconcile reports that he's not serious about alternative arrangements with the idea that he's serious about getting a deal if you assume his plan is to win a majority and then dump the DUP by signing up to the original NI-only backstop.Casino_Royale said:
I don't know what he wants. But I'm very worried about the straws in the wind from cabinet (and elsewhere) that he's not really serious about a deal. I think he'll do what's best for his own career, at the end of the day.Pulpstar said:@Casino_Royale I don't believe Boris would go for "No deal". Plan A was to try and get a big majority on the 14th so he could push through May's deal with an NI only backstop in it.
He can't say that's what he wanted to do though as he is obviously trying to hoover up Brexit Party votes.0 -
I wish I could unsee that sentence.Casino_Royale said:
Christ.williamglenn said:According to the Mail, Jacob Rees-Mogg once asked Louise Mensch to marry him.
0 -
It isn't. It's full of people from all over the world, and a LOT of people from EU27.Byronic said:
Oxford is full of like-minded people, who suit you better? Would that be because, as you previously described it, Oxford is "hideously white"?tyson said:
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.0 -
Was he drunk?williamglenn said:According to the Mail, Jacob Rees-Mogg once asked Louise Mensch to marry him.
0 -
Spot onCasino_Royale said:
Actually, over 200 Conservatives responsibly backed the WA on its first pass. It's the ERG and DUP who headbanged against it, and the Opposition who opportunistically decided to vote against it for partisan advantage.another_richard said:
Were you aware that the Conservative party was so unfit for purpose ?Casino_Royale said:
It would have been resolved by the time of the next election (GE2022) as the WA gave enough clarity on the PD for a full permanent FTA to be negotiated within the transition period. Business would have had certainty and we'd have had a basis to build on without this ongoing uncertainty and rebuild our web of trading relationships in the world.Peter_the_Punter said:
Well certainly a damn sight smoother. It would however still have dragged on.Casino_Royale said:
It would have been smooth and managed had politicians voted for the WA.Peter_the_Punter said:
True, but the public did vote for it. It was naive to think it would be as easy as flicking a switch, even if some politicians implied it would be.TGOHF said:
And the public are sick of Brexit.kle4 said:
It starts and ends with: another Brexit extension will ruin the party, and must be avoided at all costs.glw said:
Much of current Tory thinking is now inexplicable to me.Peter_the_Punter said:It is astonishing and a somewhat depressing to find that even on an enlightened forum like this, it appears necessary to argue that the law should be obeyed, and that applies to the PM as much as anybody.
All else flows from that.
I think if we do Brexit in any way shape or form, a lot of people are going to be very surprised to find it is not all over, but only just beginning. These people will include many who are currently aching for politicians to 'get it over with'.
As it is, now, it will be viscous and destructive for a long time to come due to utter dickheads on both sides.
A few of the ERG woke up a little bit in subsequent "rounds" but not enough to pass it, because by then the damage to it's reputation had been done. By them. It was shredded.
I have zero respect for the Spartans. None. They are not very bright school bullies with huge egos. They are the ones who should be kicked out. Grieve has also been destructive (from the other wing) but you cannot say that about Hammond and Gauke.0 -
out of all the last 2 weeks events I find this the most unlikelyCasino_Royale said:
Christ.williamglenn said:According to the Mail, Jacob Rees-Mogg once asked Louise Mensch to marry him.
0 -
Indeed, I have at least one Leave voting friend who has lost a Remain voting friend because of his Brexit vote.Byronic said:
Sure. I know quite a few friendships and family relationships which have been imperilled by Brexit. Again, this is why it is nearer to revolution than any ordinary political event. The English Civil War did the same to people.Tabman said:
This sort of stuff is existential, though. Deeply sad, but it exposes deep faultlines :-(Byronic said:tyson said:
Thaut this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brex also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voHYUFD said:
It is barngEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
That's just sad. Never let politenough, but mere Brexiteers?tyson said:
T three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
For my part, both my family and my friends have adopted the policy of Don't Talk About It. We know we differ, but we value our relationships more. It's a good policy, if you can stick to it.
Brexit has divided us far more than say voting for a different party in an election has sad to say0 -
It's shocking just how much the rights of Europeans who want to live and work in the UK have been used as some kind of quasi bargaining chip...right from day one after that terrible vote.AndyJS said:
I'm confused because I thought people from different European nations could live in each other's countries before the existence of the EU or EEC. Maybe no-one bothered to stop them because it was a relatively small number of people at the time.tyson said:
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.
0 -
I know, but I'm quoting tyson's negative description of the placeTabman said:
It isn't. It's full of people from all over the world, and a LOT of people from EU27.Byronic said:
Oxford is full of like-minded people, who suit you better? Would that be because, as you previously described it, Oxford is "hideously white"?tyson said:
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.0 -
?? tyson wanted to be somewhere surrounded by 'like minded people', and the point is there will always be non-like minded people about in abundance, as you yourself also point out.Gallowgate said:
And 24% of Boston voted Remain. What’s your point?HYUFD said:
Plus even Oxford was 30% Leave, it is not a Leaver free zoneByronic said:
Oxford is full of like-minded people, who suit you better? Would that be because, as you previously described it, Oxford is "hideously white"?tyson said:
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.0 -
Oi! I'm not a member of any party, just your run-of-the-mill voter. And I've been see-sawing between the Tories and the Lib Dems for years.Tabman said:
Bloody Orange Bookersglw said:
Even the Lib Dems are at risk from entryists.Black_Rook said:I've already swung back to the Lib Dems. Never mind the whole Leave/Remain farrago: if there's only one available party left that doesn't terrify you, then it makes no sense to back anybody else.
We're not all strongly ideological. So there.0 -
So just waiting for DeltaPoll (wonder if that will be in the Sunday Sun?) and then we can call it a day.0
-
Tyson said he wanted to move to Oxford to avoid LeaversGallowgate said:
And 24% of Boston voted Remain. What’s your point?HYUFD said:
Plus even Oxford was 30% Leave, it is not a Leaver free zoneByronic said:
Oxford is full of like-minded people, who suit you better? Would that be because, as you previously described it, Oxford is "hideously white"?tyson said:
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.0 -
That is surely his plan. Everything points to it. Moreover, the DUP might secretly like it (they can maintain their purity yet Brexit is solved - and in a way which will significantly boost the NI economy)williamglenn said:
It's possible to reconcile reports that he's not serious about alternative arrangements with the idea that he's serious about getting a deal if you assume his plan is to win a majority and then dump the DUP by signing up to the original NI-only backstop.Casino_Royale said:
I don't know what he wants. But I'm very worried about the straws in the wind from cabinet (and elsewhere) that he's not really serious about a deal. I think he'll do what's best for his own career, at the end of the day.Pulpstar said:@Casino_Royale I don't believe Boris would go for "No deal". Plan A was to try and get a big majority on the 14th so he could push through May's deal with an NI only backstop in it.
He can't say that's what he wanted to do though as he is obviously trying to hoover up Brexit Party votes.0 -
Nah. it's just one bloke on Botley Road, but he has a LOT of flags and posters.HYUFD said:
Plus even Oxford was 30% Leave, it is not a Leaver free zoneByronic said:
Oxford is full of like-minded people, who suit you better? Would that be because, as you previously described it, Oxford is "hideously white"?tyson said:
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.0 -
So Rudd wasn't bothered about the government's threats to disobey the law, setting up the dangerous people vs parliament argument and proroguing stunt but the mistreatment of her friends in the party.
It really is ALL about the conservative party. Nothing else matters.0 -
Martin boon indicates early hours for this to drop.....GIN1138 said:So just waiting for DeltaPoll (wonder if that will be in the Sunday Sun?) and then we can call it a day.
0 -
It was self referential :-)Black_Rook said:
Oi! I'm not a member of any party, just your run-of-the-mill voter. And I've been see-sawing between the Tories and the Lib Dems for years.Tabman said:
Bloody Orange Bookersglw said:
Even the Lib Dems are at risk from entryists.Black_Rook said:I've already swung back to the Lib Dems. Never mind the whole Leave/Remain farrago: if there's only one available party left that doesn't terrify you, then it makes no sense to back anybody else.
We're not all strongly ideological. So there.
The loonier fringe tend to fire that at me on some other fora I inhabit.0 -
Which is very sad, where it happens.HYUFD said:Indeed, I have at least one Leave voting friend who has lost a Remain voting friend because of his Brexit vote.
Brexit has divided us far more than say voting for a different party in an election has sad to say
Disputes over politics simply aren't worth that kind of nastiness.0 -
0 -
I say, I say, I say. What do you get if you cross a Leaver and a Remainer?Byronic said:
Sure. I know quite a few friendships and family relationships which have been imperilled by Brexit. Again, this is why it is nearer to revolution than any ordinary political event. The English Civil War did the same to people.
For my part, both my family and my friends have adopted the policy of Don't Talk About It. We know we differ, but we value our relationships more. It's a good policy, if you can stick to it.
A ReLeaver
0 -
You’re very confused indeed if you think UK immigration and residence rules bear any resemblance to those in force before the existence of the EU or EEC.AndyJS said:
I'm confused because I thought people from different European nations could live in each other's countries before the existence of the EU or EEC. Maybe no-one bothered to stop them because it was a relatively small number of people at the time.tyson said:
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.0 -
Looks Warhammer 40kishPhilip_Thompson said:0 -
I've described Norwich (where I now live and shortly moving from) as being white..hideously white is a bit incendiary- but maybe something I could have said ...I love being in Oxford because it is so multicultural and diverse....Tabman said:
It isn't. It's full of people from all over the world, and a LOT of people from EU27.Byronic said:
Oxford is full of like-minded people, who suit you better? Would that be because, as you previously described it, Oxford is "hideously white"?tyson said:
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.
0 -
It is.williamglenn said:
It's possible to reconcile reports that he's not serious about alternative arrangements with the idea that he's serious about getting a deal if you assume his plan is to win a majority and then dump the DUP by signing up to the original NI-only backstop.Casino_Royale said:
I don't know what he wants. But I'm very worried about the straws in the wind from cabinet (and elsewhere) that he's not really serious about a deal. I think he'll do what's best for his own career, at the end of the day.Pulpstar said:@Casino_Royale I don't believe Boris would go for "No deal". Plan A was to try and get a big majority on the 14th so he could push through May's deal with an NI only backstop in it.
He can't say that's what he wanted to do though as he is obviously trying to hoover up Brexit Party votes.
I said this earlier on the previous thread. But the trouble is it's still only a guess.0 -
It's put me right off referendums. Never Again.Black_Rook said:
Which is very sad, where it happens.HYUFD said:Indeed, I have at least one Leave voting friend who has lost a Remain voting friend because of his Brexit vote.
Brexit has divided us far more than say voting for a different party in an election has sad to say
Disputes over politics simply aren't worth that kind of nastiness.0 -
HYUFD was 100% Remain.HYUFD said:
Plus even Oxford was 30% Leave, it is not a Leaver free zoneByronic said:
Oxford is full of like-minded people, who suit you better? Would that be because, as you previously described it, Oxford is "hideously white"?tyson said:
Sadly for me it's personal and emotional with family. My wife is Italian- they (my brothers) know the impact that this has already had on us- we've had to move back to the UK so my wife can begin her residency application leaving elderly relatives in Italy.another_richard said:
But you talk to many people with a variety of views which also offend you on PB.tyson said:
That is the the bonkers thing about all this bullshit....Brexiteers accept that Brexit is bad for the country, but have somehow reframed the whole debate about protecting democracy. They are a bunch of absolute shysters but what can you do? I don't talk to my two brothers who spout this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
Until Brexit impacts upon your day to to day life in a direct way, then it's all a bit hypothetical. I'm moving back to Oxford too in a couple of weeks. Unfortunately now going to the pub here in Norwich can be stressful if I encounter Brexit morons. I need to live somewhere where I'm surrounded by like minded people.
Here on pbCOM- I'm more than happy though to see how the other side is thinking. It's all quite interpersonal.0 -
Likewise within mine. Though it's generational in my family.Byronic said:
Sure. I know quite a few friendships and family relationships which have been imperilled by Brexit. Again, this is why it is nearer to revolution than any ordinary political event. The English Civil War did the same to people.Tabman said:
This sort of stuff is existential, though. Deeply sad, but it exposes deep faultlines :-(Byronic said:tyson said:
Thaut this kind of crap...I've blocked them and haven't seen them now for over three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brex also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voHYUFD said:
It is barngEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
That's just sad. Never let politics get in the way of human relationships. If they'd become Nazis or Maoists, fair enough, but mere Brexiteers?tyson said:
T three years.Pulpstar said:
Remaining in the EU is objectively superior to being outside it.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Why didn't you vote Leave in 2016?HYUFD said:
I won't, I back Brexit on October 31st Deal or No Deal and as long as former Remain voters respect democracy like me they are also welcome to staysurbiton19 said:
You voted Remain, allegedly [ though it doesn't feel like you did from your posts ]. So when will you be kicked out ?HYUFD said:
It is bar a few Remain diehard MPs who are gradually being kicked out of the party or resigningEl_Capitano said:I'm just going to leave this here from two days ago
HYUFD said:the party itself is now fully behind Brexit Deal or No Deal and with Boris in the war with the diehard Remainers and Corbyn
For my part, both my family and my friends have adopted the policy of Don't Talk About It. We know we differ, but we value our relationships more. It's a good policy, if you can stick to it.0 -
Given that May was always going to get a deal and it was clear that Parliament would never support a no deal exit why should he have wasted money preping for No Deal when it was never going to occur?KentRising said:
Hammond, for his lack of No Deal prep, should be in front of a hearing somewhere. He is worse than Grieve in my book.
There are 2 sides to the No Deal prep argument and it's only now Boris is going for it that preparation is required as the EU will always extend (because they don't want the blame).0 -
Ah, OKTabman said:
It was self referential :-)Black_Rook said:
Oi! I'm not a member of any party, just your run-of-the-mill voter. And I've been see-sawing between the Tories and the Lib Dems for years.Tabman said:
Bloody Orange Bookersglw said:
Even the Lib Dems are at risk from entryists.Black_Rook said:I've already swung back to the Lib Dems. Never mind the whole Leave/Remain farrago: if there's only one available party left that doesn't terrify you, then it makes no sense to back anybody else.
We're not all strongly ideological. So there.
The loonier fringe tend to fire that at me on some other fora I inhabit. 0 -
@HYUFD always wangs on about ‘the North’ being a single leave voting entity when in suits, but then highlights that 30% of Oxford voted Leave.kle4 said:?? tyson wanted to be somewhere surrounded by 'like minded people', and the point is there will always be non-like minded people about in abundance, as you yourself also point out.
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Politics and government is a jolly game for the privileged.FrankBooth said:So Rudd wasn't bothered about the government's threats to disobey the law, setting up the dangerous people vs parliament argument and proroguing stunt but the mistreatment of her friends in the party.
It really is ALL about the conservative party. Nothing else matters.0 -
Can he get through a campaign without promising he won't do that, or else face rebellion from his own DUP aligned wing?williamglenn said:
It's possible to reconcile reports that he's not serious about alternative arrangements with the idea that he's serious about getting a deal if you assume his plan is to win a majority and then dump the DUP by signing up to the original NI-only backstop.Casino_Royale said:
I don't know what he wants. But I'm very worried about the straws in the wind from cabinet (and elsewhere) that he's not really serious about a deal. I think he'll do what's best for his own career, at the end of the day.Pulpstar said:@Casino_Royale I don't believe Boris would go for "No deal". Plan A was to try and get a big majority on the 14th so he could push through May's deal with an NI only backstop in it.
He can't say that's what he wanted to do though as he is obviously trying to hoover up Brexit Party votes.
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Cameron has to take the blame for calling the referendum in the first place.Black_Rook said:
Which is very sad, where it happens.HYUFD said:Indeed, I have at least one Leave voting friend who has lost a Remain voting friend because of his Brexit vote.
Brexit has divided us far more than say voting for a different party in an election has sad to say
Disputes over politics simply aren't worth that kind of nastiness.2
