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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273
    edited September 2019
    IanB2 said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.

    The problem with revolutions is that they almost always fail. Having won in Grimsby, how does a hard right Tory party that dreams of Singapore and the smallest of states retain it?

    The Tories would then have the same challenge that the US Republicans have - how to win over the working classes to vote against their own economic interest. In the US they have religion an a host of cultural issues to use as levers. I can’t see the same approach working as well in the UK once Brexit itself drops down the agenda.
    Working class voters want tax cuts here in the US, Trump is actually a bigger spender than Tea Party Republicans would like and the working class like tighter immigration controls here as in the US too as well as lots of patriotism.

    That is how
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736

    Scott_P said:
    If he's not going to deny royal assent, this is the next best option IMO.

    If the Supreme Court rule in his favour so be it. If the Supreme Court rules against him he has no choice but to follow the law. Either way the law is honoured and he has done everything in his power.
    It's vital that he avoids prison. We know what happens to pretty boys like Boris when they go inside.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,114

    David Cameron first saved the Tory Party, and then destroyed it.

    It goes beyond Cameron...Major needed to kick out the swivel eyed loonies, and lance the boil. Now the management of the asylum has effectively changed to a new group....
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917

    I wonder who else will follow. There's an awful lot of people who could go in the Lords.

    Nicky Morgan, Monday morning, I reckon.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077

    The problem with these hypotheticals is it doesn't say why the election is post-Halloween or how people acted between now and then.
    Boris failed - what else matters.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    Yet we are assured it will make no difference by philip thompson and others. Pollsters will look foolish if he is right.
  • Scott_P said:
    Oh how exciting. No doubt leavers will be spluttering into their pints tonight as the Surrey Advertiser breaks the devastating news.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    Scott_P said:
    What a numpty. You can't have your cake and eat it, you plank.
  • This is very interesting. Will this sort of thing trigger Labour MP desertions to LDs?
    To lose Starmer would be massive. He has been a driving force against the Momentum invasion.
    That's very surprising to me, as I thought grassroots Labour was moving to an even greater Remain position. What's going on there ?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    edited September 2019
    So 3% lead current VI poll from ComRes. Pollsters are all over the place.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Scott_P said:
    Proceed to the exit Phil you twat.
  • Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.

    The problem with revolutions is that they almost always fail. Having won in Grimsby, how does a hard right Tory party that dreams of Singapore and the smallest of states retain it?

    Revolutions nearly always fail?!

    How do you arrive at such an ahistoricity?

    What are the most famous revolutions? Off the top of my head:

    France: succeeded
    America: succeeded
    England (Civil War and Glorious): both succeeded
    Russia: succeeded
    Ireland: (eventually succeeded)...

    Even the revolutions that do fail often achieve their aims some way down the line/

    I would say that only in America were the original goals of the revolutionaries achieved. The other countries all descended very quickly into civil war.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273
    edited September 2019
    Which is why Boris will not extend himself and the departures of anti Brexiteers like Rudd and Hammond and Clark and Lee and Grieve is painful for some but necessary
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2019
    Angela Smith was the MP who got into trouble for allegedly using the phrase "funny tinge", although she apologised almost immediately.
  • AndyJS said:

    Number of government MPs drops to 288, (when this is updated).

    https://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/current-state-of-the-parties/

    Realistically these totals no longer matter. There is no majority and that is unsustainable, there needs to be an election and the government recognises this.

    Whether it is 289, 288, 270 or 260 is rather moot now. What matters is how many post-election.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871

    This is very interesting. Will this sort of thing trigger Labour MP desertions to LDs?
    To lose Starmer would be massive. He has been a driving force against the Momentum invasion.
    He's almost gotten the Labour party to victory (on the remain front at any rate). I think he can put up with momentum shenanigans rather than self destruct the party at the same time as the Tories.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Scott_P said:
    What a numpty. You can't have your cake and eat it, you plank.
    Why not? Boris Johnson did.
  • This is very interesting. Will this sort of thing trigger Labour MP desertions to LDs?
    To lose Starmer would be massive. He has been a driving force against the Momentum invasion.
    Corbyn and his mates finally getting sick of Starmer's die hard remainerism?
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,255
    edited September 2019
    ydoethur said:

    Just came back from Scotland after probably my most epic week of railway geekery ever!

    On Monday evening did Stirling to Alloa, as well as Camelon (near Falkirk) to Larbert.
    Tuesday did Craigendoran to Oban (one of the West Highland Lines)
    Wednesday did Ladybank to Perth and Aviemore to Inverness
    Thursday did Crianlarich to Mallaig (the other West Highland)
    Friday did Leuchars to Dundee to Aberdeen
    And finally today did the loop from Inverkeithing round to Kirkcaldy via Cowdenbeath

    That just leaves Inverness to Kyle, Inverness to Thurso and Wick, and Inverness to Aberdeen for me to complete the normal weekday National Rail network of Great Britain!

    But will probably will wait until the days get longer again in the spring, though.

    When I did the far northern line, I saw three - three! - golden eagles.

    And on every fecking occasion my camera wasn't ready...
    My photographic miss was Torness Power Station about 6 or 7 years ago, framed in its entirety by a prominent rainbow. That was merely on a rail replacement service though.

    EDIT: I wonder if anyone out there is trying to yellow line the network entirely on rail replacement buses?
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    The problem with these hypotheticals is it doesn't say why the election is post-Halloween or how people acted between now and then.
    I think they're interesting, but far from conclusive.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Scott_P said:
    These polls are virtually worthless, and voodoo, as they will seriously confuse 70% of voters.
  • GIN1138 said:

    Amber Rudd was a very bizarre cabinet appointment.

    Suspect she just took the position so she'd be able to resign and go out in a blaze of glory?

    We feel your pain.
  • Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.

    The problem with revolutions is that they almost always fail. Having won in Grimsby, how does a hard right Tory party that dreams of Singapore and the smallest of states retain it?

    Revolutions nearly always fail?!

    How do you arrive at such an ahistoricity?

    What are the most famous revolutions? Off the top of my head:

    France: succeeded
    America: succeeded
    England (Civil War and Glorious): both succeeded
    Russia: succeeded
    Ireland: (eventually succeeded)...

    Even the revolutions that do fail often achieve their aims some way down the line/
    Zimbabwe ... failed state
    Venezuala ... failed state
    Nicaragua ... revolution failed
    Jacobite rebellion failed
    The peasants revolt
    Cromwell
    Hungary 1956
    Prague Spring
    etc, etc

  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    edited September 2019
    edit
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,555
    BREAKING NEWS: Tory MP retains whip.
  • eek said:

    The problem with these hypotheticals is it doesn't say why the election is post-Halloween or how people acted between now and then.
    Boris failed - what else matters.
    Boris failed because the Remainers in Parliament frustrated him. That is why its critical every Leaver backs the Tories so that the Remainers don't win again.

    Easy sales pitch.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited September 2019

    AndyJS said:

    Number of government MPs drops to 288, (when this is updated).

    https://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/current-state-of-the-parties/

    Realistically these totals no longer matter. There is no majority and that is unsustainable, there needs to be an election and the government recognises this.

    Whether it is 289, 288, 270 or 260 is rather moot now. What matters is how many post-election.
    If he gets an election - how would you feel if it's April, Boris is still a minority PM unable to get anything through Parliament being forced to ask for a 3rd extension.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    Scott_P said:
    I've always thought parties can do as they like in such matters, so long as they follow their own rules, and if the rules say the party can kick you out for defying a three line whip/confidence vote, what does he have to argue?
  • I've updated the thread with the BritainElects/ComRes polling.

    New defection - I'm defecting to bed.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    I’d love a Greater London GE VI poll. Could see some serious churn there.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited September 2019

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.

    The problem with revolutions is that they almost always fail. Having won in Grimsby, how does a hard right Tory party that dreams of Singapore and the smallest of states retain it?

    Revolutions nearly always fail?!

    How do you arrive at such an ahistoricity?

    What are the most famous revolutions? Off the top of my head:

    France: succeeded
    America: succeeded
    England (Civil War and Glorious): both succeeded
    Russia: succeeded
    Ireland: (eventually succeeded)...

    Even the revolutions that do fail often achieve their aims some way down the line/

    I would say that only in America were the original goals of the revolutionaries achieved. The other countries all descended very quickly into civil war.
    I have to say that I tend to agree with Byronic here. The achievement of a significant change of system is one that can be fairly objectively measured, whereas how far that change is in character with its earliest goals could be described as a question that's more subjective.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.

    The problem with revolutions is that they almost always fail. Having won in Grimsby, how does a hard right Tory party that dreams of Singapore and the smallest of states retain it?

    Revolutions nearly always fail?!

    How do you arrive at such an ahistoricity?

    What are the most famous revolutions? Off the top of my head:

    France: succeeded
    America: succeeded
    England (Civil War and Glorious): both succeeded
    Russia: succeeded
    Ireland: (eventually succeeded)...

    Even the revolutions that do fail often achieve their aims some way down the line/

    I would say that only in America were the original goals of the revolutionaries achieved. The other countries all descended very quickly into civil war.
    As did America less than a century later
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.

    The problem with revolutions is that they almost always fail. Having won in Grimsby, how does a hard right Tory party that dreams of Singapore and the smallest of states retain it?

    Revolutions nearly always fail?!

    How do you arrive at such an ahistoricity?

    What are the most famous revolutions? Off the top of my head:

    France: succeeded
    America: succeeded
    England (Civil War and Glorious): both succeeded
    Russia: succeeded
    Ireland: (eventually succeeded)...

    Even the revolutions that do fail often achieve their aims some way down the line/
    Very debatable history there. The best you can say is that many revolutions sow seeds that eventually bear fruit (or alternatively that the pressures that led to the revolution ensure and eventually lead to more sustainable change). The French Revolution led to an Emperor and then back to the restoration of the monarchy. The English Civil War led to the restoration of the monarchy. The Glorious wasnt a revolution at all, but a successful invasion and takeover by the Dutch that was subsequently re-written in history to airbrush out this inconvenience. Russia hardly succeeded against any objective assessment of the aspirations of those who participated. Etc.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.

    The problem with revolutions is that they almost always fail. Having won in Grimsby, how does a hard right Tory party that dreams of Singapore and the smallest of states retain it?

    Revolutions nearly always fail?!

    How do you arrive at such an ahistoricity?

    What are the most famous revolutions? Off the top of my head:

    France: succeeded
    America: succeeded
    England (Civil War and Glorious): both succeeded
    Russia: succeeded
    Ireland: (eventually succeeded)...

    Even the revolutions that do fail often achieve their aims some way down the line/
    Zimbabwe ... failed state
    Venezuala ... failed state
    Nicaragua ... revolution failed
    Jacobite rebellion failed
    The peasants revolt
    Cromwell
    Hungary 1956
    Prague Spring
    etc, etc

    I'm baffled by a list that includes the Russian and French revolutions as successes. On their own terms they were abject failures.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
  • Scott_P said:
    If the Supreme Court says he can, what will be the difference between the UK, Russia, North Korea etc.
    Like the Millar cases they become law and if Boris won then the whole system of parliamentary legislation is in real trouble, as is everybody
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736
    Scott_P said:
    Question for Brexiteers. Is this poll:
    (1) Good for Boris?
    (2) Outstanding for Boris?
    (3) [Can't reply because I died and went to heaven when I saw it.]
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 95,871
    glw said:

    It is astonishing and a somewhat depressing to find that even on an enlightened forum like this, it appears necessary to argue that the law should be obeyed, and that applies to the PM as much as anybody.

    Much of current Tory thinking is now inexplicable to me.
    It starts and ends with: another Brexit extension will ruin the party, and must be avoided at all costs.

    All else flows from that.
  • Did Comres not have a traditional comparable VI poll?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,154
    Scott_P said:
    Our troops need to go on petrol.

    I'll get my dressing gown.

    Good night.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    This is very interesting. Will this sort of thing trigger Labour MP desertions to LDs?
    To lose Starmer would be massive. He has been a driving force against the Momentum invasion.
    That's very surprising to me, as I thought grassroots Labour was moving to an even greater Remain position. What's going on there ?
    Labour has been completely taken over by middle class Marxism, and North London is the epicentre of middle class Marxism. The ideologically impure will be purged!
  • Beginning to think a GONU (probably time-limited to allow enough time for a referendum, but possibly, alternatively, running until 2022) is inevitable. It's the only way out of this.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,800



    Realistically these totals no longer matter. There is no majority and that is unsustainable, there needs to be an election and the government recognises this.

    Whether it is 289, 288, 270 or 260 is rather moot now. What matters is how many post-election.

    The problem is Boris has the polling numbers and is desperate for a GE but the opposition, who can read the same polls and know they will lose, have the numbers to prevent a GE.

    Boris is therefore trapped - he can't take us out of the EU on 31/10 and he can't call a GE.

    I suspect an alternative non-Corbyn led Government would be far more stable, successful and ultimately popular than many on here realise.
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    Scott_P said:
    Is it a good idea for the Daily Mail to publicise this ?
  • Scott_P said:
    That's worrying for Boris and suggests he's very much on probation. If he screws Brexit up then the will of the people seems prepared to let Jezza have a go. Boris must, must, must hit that 31 October deadline, preferably with No Deal to shoot Nigel's fox.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578
    Pro_Rata said:

    ydoethur said:

    Just came back from Scotland after probably my most epic week of railway geekery ever!

    On Monday evening did Stirling to Alloa, as well as Camelon (near Falkirk) to Larbert.
    Tuesday did Craigendoran to Oban (one of the West Highland Lines)
    Wednesday did Ladybank to Perth and Aviemore to Inverness
    Thursday did Crianlarich to Mallaig (the other West Highland)
    Friday did Leuchars to Dundee to Aberdeen
    And finally today did the loop from Inverkeithing round to Kirkcaldy via Cowdenbeath

    That just leaves Inverness to Kyle, Inverness to Thurso and Wick, and Inverness to Aberdeen for me to complete the normal weekday National Rail network of Great Britain!

    But will probably will wait until the days get longer again in the spring, though.

    When I did the far northern line, I saw three - three! - golden eagles.

    And on every fecking occasion my camera wasn't ready...
    My photographic miss was Torness Power Station about 6 or 7 years ago, framed in its entirety by a prominent rainbow. That was merely on a rail replacement service though.
    If you jump on a Metropolitan line in central London - Aldgate or King's X say - and follow the line to its ultimate conclusion in Amersham, where the Chilterns begin, you step out of the station into a country town, and if you are lucky there will be magnificent red kites wheeling and screeching above you, even as you put away your Oyster card.

    It's a glorious transition. Very poetic.

  • Monkeys said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.
    And if only one side grasps this fact and tries to gain ground....the balance shifts in their favour, which is all it will take to win. The Tory party will be reshaped. We're going to No-Deal.
    Yes, and fifty virgins await you in heaven.

    You’re all fanatics. Totally brainwashed. Bin Laden and HItler loved morons like you. You’d be buckling up suicide belts if you thought it would ensure the ecstasy of Brexit.
  • eek said:

    AndyJS said:

    Number of government MPs drops to 288, (when this is updated).

    https://www.parliament.uk/mps-lords-and-offices/mps/current-state-of-the-parties/

    Realistically these totals no longer matter. There is no majority and that is unsustainable, there needs to be an election and the government recognises this.

    Whether it is 289, 288, 270 or 260 is rather moot now. What matters is how many post-election.
    If he gets an election - how would you feel if it's April, Boris is still a minority PM unable to get anything through Parliament being forced to ask for a 3rd extension.
    I think anger at opposition gameplaying and refusing an election while Boris is constantly campaigning would be at boiling point and Boris's Tories could be on 45% not 40% by then.
  • KentRisingKentRising Posts: 2,917
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:
    I've always thought parties can do as they like in such matters, so long as they follow their own rules, and if the rules say the party can kick you out for defying a three line whip/confidence vote, what does he have to argue?
    Yep. The party had a rule, you broke it you're out on your ear, as simple as that. Grow a pair.
  • So 3% lead current VI poll from ComRes. Pollsters are all over the place.



    Not really. The direction of travel is pretty clear which is what pollsters measure best - Tory lead increasing. Labour in decline. MPs (and increasingly voters) switching to LDs.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427
    edited September 2019
    That ‘500,000 Britons hooked on opioids’ story in the Sunday Times is pretty scary.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    It is astonishing and a somewhat depressing to find that even on an enlightened forum like this, it appears necessary to argue that the law should be obeyed, and that applies to the PM as much as anybody.

    Much of current Tory thinking is now inexplicable to me.
    It starts and ends with: another Brexit extension will ruin the party, and must be avoided at all costs.

    All else flows from that.
    And the public are sick of Brexit.

  • nielhnielh Posts: 1,307

    Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.

    The problem with revolutions is that they almost always fail. Having won in Grimsby, how does a hard right Tory party that dreams of Singapore and the smallest of states retain it?

    Revolutions nearly always fail?!

    How do you arrive at such an ahistoricity?

    What are the most famous revolutions? Off the top of my head:

    France: succeeded
    America: succeeded
    England (Civil War and Glorious): both succeeded
    Russia: succeeded
    Ireland: (eventually succeeded)...

    Even the revolutions that do fail often achieve their aims some way down the line/
    Zimbabwe ... failed state
    Venezuala ... failed state
    Nicaragua ... revolution failed
    Jacobite rebellion failed
    The peasants revolt
    Cromwell
    Hungary 1956
    Prague Spring
    etc, etc

    Revolutions aren't a good historical analogy. It feels more like a descent in to Civil war.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    I’d love a Greater London GE VI poll. Could see some serious churn there.

    It would probably be something like this:

    Lab 30%
    LD 27%
    Con 20%
    BRX 12%
    Green 10%
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,344
    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.
    I fear you may be right. However, apart from Britain......or more likely England, plus perhaps Wales and for the moment N Ireland..... against the world, what policies does this revolutionary party have?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    Monkeys said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.
    And if only one side grasps this fact and tries to gain ground....the balance shifts in their favour, which is all it will take to win. The Tory party will be reshaped. We're going to No-Deal.
    Yes, and fifty virgins await you in heaven.

    You’re all fanatics. Totally brainwashed. Bin Laden and HItler loved morons like you. You’d be buckling up suicide belts if you thought it would ensure the ecstasy of Brexit.
    Someone has been at the buckfast
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    It is astonishing and a somewhat depressing to find that even on an enlightened forum like this, it appears necessary to argue that the law should be obeyed, and that applies to the PM as much as anybody.

    Much of current Tory thinking is now inexplicable to me.
    It starts and ends with: another Brexit extension will ruin the party, and must be avoided at all costs.

    All else flows from that.
    Meanwhile the party is being ruined. Go figure.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited September 2019

    Scott_P said:
    If the Supreme Court says he can, what will be the difference between the UK, Russia, North Korea etc.
    Like the Millar cases they become law and if Boris won then the whole system of parliamentary legislation is in real trouble, as is everybody
    It's still something that I would think can be easily answered by the courts so let the case be brought
  • Chris said:

    Scott_P said:
    Question for Brexiteers. Is this poll:
    (1) Good for Boris?
    (2) Outstanding for Boris?
    (3) [Can't reply because I died and went to heaven when I saw it.]
    (4) Meaningless hypothetical bullshit.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,050
    edited September 2019
    Scott_P said:
    Interesting. Perhaps things are too fluid to be able to draw any really firm conclusions. Still on balance though, if I were Dominic Cummings I would be reasonably happy at tonight's polls.

    A large part of the public's interpretation of Boris's week of troubles has clearly not been the same as the media's, or what it was expecting, and the opposition to Brexit is much more split than its support.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    This is very interesting. Will this sort of thing trigger Labour MP desertions to LDs?
    To lose Starmer would be massive. He has been a driving force against the Momentum invasion.
    That's very surprising to me, as I thought grassroots Labour was moving to an even greater Remain position. What's going on there ?
    Labour has been completely taken over by middle class Marxism, and North London is the epicentre of middle class Marxism. The ideologically impure will be purged!
    We surely live in interesting times.....
  • Monkeys said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.
    And if only one side grasps this fact and tries to gain ground....the balance shifts in their favour, which is all it will take to win. The Tory party will be reshaped. We're going to No-Deal.
    Yes, and fifty virgins await you in heaven.

    You’re all fanatics. Totally brainwashed. Bin Laden and HItler loved morons like you. You’d be buckling up suicide belts if you thought it would ensure the ecstasy of Brexit.
    A strange comment. As a scot that is very much how i would describe the Nats in my part of the world.
  • TGOHF said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    It is astonishing and a somewhat depressing to find that even on an enlightened forum like this, it appears necessary to argue that the law should be obeyed, and that applies to the PM as much as anybody.

    Much of current Tory thinking is now inexplicable to me.
    It starts and ends with: another Brexit extension will ruin the party, and must be avoided at all costs.

    All else flows from that.
    And the public are sick of Brexit.

    True, but the public did vote for it. It was naive to think it would be as easy as flicking a switch, even if some politicians implied it would be.
  • Monkeys said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.
    And if only one side grasps this fact and tries to gain ground....the balance shifts in their favour, which is all it will take to win. The Tory party will be reshaped. We're going to No-Deal.
    Yes, and fifty virgins await you in heaven.

    You’re all fanatics. Totally brainwashed. Bin Laden and HItler loved morons like you. You’d be buckling up suicide belts if you thought it would ensure the ecstasy of Brexit.
    Loss of composure evident in this post. Polls rattling you?
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Dadge said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    It is astonishing and a somewhat depressing to find that even on an enlightened forum like this, it appears necessary to argue that the law should be obeyed, and that applies to the PM as much as anybody.

    Much of current Tory thinking is now inexplicable to me.
    It starts and ends with: another Brexit extension will ruin the party, and must be avoided at all costs.

    All else flows from that.
    Meanwhile the party is being ruined. Go figure.
    Ruined ? Flakey inept careerists are flouncing out ?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    It's all going to Dominic Cummings' plan. Total chaos.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_P said:
    Our troops need to go on petrol.

    I'll get my dressing gown.

    Good night.
    Don't go as your clearly having a gas...

  • That ‘500,000 Britons hooked on opioids’ story in the Sunday Times is pretty scary.

    And very reminiscent of the US.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,774
    Off topic, a plug for the Finger Lakes, which I read somewhere are an under-appreciated destination within the US in terms of visitor numbers. The scenery is attractive (like Lake Windermere but with deciduous trees on the hills), there are gorges and waterfalls and long and short hikes everywhere, tons of state parks, dozens of wineries and breweries with tastings and tours, Ithaca and Watkins Glen aren’t as ugly as many US towns and Ithaca has Cornell University so a youthful and lively place, fishing and boating on the lakes, a huge choice of eating, and various tourist attractions including the renowned Corning Glass Museum.

    Just four hours north west of New York, so an easy add on to a holiday in the Big Apple. And for a longer day out Niagara Falls is a just over a couple of hours away.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427

    Monkeys said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.
    And if only one side grasps this fact and tries to gain ground....the balance shifts in their favour, which is all it will take to win. The Tory party will be reshaped. We're going to No-Deal.
    Yes, and fifty virgins await you in heaven.

    You’re all fanatics. Totally brainwashed. Bin Laden and HItler loved morons like you. You’d be buckling up suicide belts if you thought it would ensure the ecstasy of Brexit.
    A strange comment. As a scot that is very much how i would describe the Nats in my part of the world.
    What the hell do you know about the attitudes to Brexit in old working class areas of England then?
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,736

    Chris said:

    Scott_P said:
    Question for Brexiteers. Is this poll:
    (1) Good for Boris?
    (2) Outstanding for Boris?
    (3) [Can't reply because I died and went to heaven when I saw it.]
    (4) Meaningless hypothetical bullshit.
    No true Brexiteer would say a thing like that.
  • Monkeys said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.
    And if only one side grasps this fact and tries to gain ground....the balance shifts in their favour, which is all it will take to win. The Tory party will be reshaped. We're going to No-Deal.
    Yes, and fifty virgins await you in heaven.

    You’re all fanatics. Totally brainwashed. Bin Laden and HItler loved morons like you. You’d be buckling up suicide belts if you thought it would ensure the ecstasy of Brexit.
    Loss of composure evident in this post. Polls rattling you?
    He's a Nat. Im afraid that's just what they do,

    In our part of Scotland people are very bored with it.
  • ByronicByronic Posts: 3,578

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.
    I fear you may be right. However, apart from Britain......or more likely England, plus perhaps Wales and for the moment N Ireland..... against the world, what policies does this revolutionary party have?
    There you have me stumped. My analysis ends at the "it's a revolution" stage.
  • Con Maj drifting:

    Best prices - Next UK GE

    NOM 5/7
    Con Maj 2/1
    Lab Maj 11/1
    LD Maj 50/1
    Bxp Maj 100/1
  • steve_garnersteve_garner Posts: 1,019
    edited September 2019

    That ‘500,000 Britons hooked on opioids’ story in the Sunday Times is pretty scary.

    And very reminiscent of the US.
    Did the ST story say if the addicted were leavers or remainers? Or indeed if Brexit has driven them to opioids?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Jonathan said:

    BREAKING NEWS: Tory MP retains whip.

    Boris?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    TGOHF said:

    Dadge said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    It is astonishing and a somewhat depressing to find that even on an enlightened forum like this, it appears necessary to argue that the law should be obeyed, and that applies to the PM as much as anybody.

    Much of current Tory thinking is now inexplicable to me.
    It starts and ends with: another Brexit extension will ruin the party, and must be avoided at all costs.

    All else flows from that.
    Meanwhile the party is being ruined. Go figure.
    Ruined ? Flakey inept careerists are flouncing out ?
    I think it's more the surrender / retreat from the centre ground to a very right wing position.
  • TGOHF said:

    kle4 said:

    glw said:

    It is astonishing and a somewhat depressing to find that even on an enlightened forum like this, it appears necessary to argue that the law should be obeyed, and that applies to the PM as much as anybody.

    Much of current Tory thinking is now inexplicable to me.
    It starts and ends with: another Brexit extension will ruin the party, and must be avoided at all costs.

    All else flows from that.
    And the public are sick of Brexit.

    True, but the public did vote for it. It was naive to think it would be as easy as flicking a switch, even if some politicians implied it would be.
    Fair comment.
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,114
    This poll is a nonsense sadly.....

    However, in all the polls the most important factor will be to look at the pro and anti Brexit party totals.....because this election will be about one thing...Britain elects put this at 52%/44%: YouGov at 40%/47%....


  • Scott_P said:
    If the Supreme Court says he can, what will be the difference between the UK, Russia, North Korea etc.
    Like the Millar cases they become law and if Boris won then the whole system of parliamentary legislation is in real trouble, as is everybody
    It depends why he wins. The Supreme Court would have to have a good reason and logic for the victory, just as it required one for Miller's.

    If the challenge is based on for example Queen's Consent and Bercow gave a biased and a false instruction in saying it wasn't required then comparable to the doctrine of "fruit of the poisoned tree" the legislation should be invalid.

    If the Court rules strictly that Queen's Consent was required and strikes out the law on that basis, then no law will have ever been broken except Bercow giving bad instructions and that will have been put right. If Bercow resigned and was replaced by say Hoyle who then returned to an era of a truly neutral Speaker giving impartial advice that could help repair some of the damage of the last couple of years.
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,528
    edited September 2019
    Foxy. You may remember that I asked some questions a few months ago about my brother’s oesophageal cancer. Just to say that he died peacefully today in a hospice surrounded by his friends. Our mother was able to speak to him and then he slipped away. 63 was too young but in the end it was a good death.
  • AndyJS said:

    It's all going to Dominic Cummings' plan. Total chaos.

    As “planned” as the sinking of the Titanic.
  • Beibheirli_CBeibheirli_C Posts: 8,163
    edited September 2019

    Foxy. You may remember that I asked some questions a few months ago about my brother’s oesophageal cancer. Just to say that he died peacefully today in a hospice surrounded by his friends. Our mother was able to speak to him and then he slipped away. 63 was too young but in the end it was a good death.

    Sorry to hear that. :(

    63 is far too young.
  • So 3% lead current VI poll from ComRes. Pollsters are all over the place.

    We all are. I give up trying to make sense of this
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273

    Foxy. You may remember that I asked some questions a few months ago about my brother’s oesophageal cancer. Just to say that he died peacefully today in a hospice surrounded by his friends. Our mother was able to speak to him and then he slipped away. 63 was too young but in the end it was a good death.

    Sad to hear and condolonces to you and your mother
  • surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    tyson said:

    This poll is a nonsense sadly.....

    However, in all the polls the most important factor will be to look at the pro and anti Brexit party totals.....because this election will be about one thing...Britain elects put this at 52%/44%: YouGov at 40%/47%....


    No. All polls show roughly 53:47 or 54:46 Remain:Leave. Labour Leavers have left and Tory Remainers are also leaving.
  • dyedwooliedyedwoolie Posts: 7,786

    Foxy. You may remember that I asked some questions a few months ago about my brother’s oesophageal cancer. Just to say that he died peacefully today in a hospice surrounded by his friends. Our mother was able to speak to him and then he slipped away. 63 was too young but in the end it was a good death.

    Please accept my condolences
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,427

    Foxy. You may remember that I asked some questions a few months ago about my brother’s oesophageal cancer. Just to say that he died peacefully today in a hospice surrounded by his friends. Our mother was able to speak to him and then he slipped away. 63 was too young but in the end it was a good death.

    I’m very sorry to hear that. My sympathies.
  • Byronic said:

    Byronic said:

    Chris said:

    So what's the opinion of the Brexiteers here? Is Amber Rudd's resignation:
    (1) Quite good for Boris
    (2) Very good for Boris or
    (3) Orgasmically good for Boris?

    It really isnt any of those. Not least because it makes holding Rudd's seat a tall order
    So many people have not grasped what Dom Cummings clearly has grasped, and which I have been banging on about for several weeks

    Brexit is a revolution. It's way more than a political upheaval, it's an overturning of everything we understand about British elections, meanwhile, all received political opinions are rendered worthless. The only thing similar to this, in recent UK history, is Scotland post indyref, where Labour completely collapsed after a century of dominance - but Brexit is even bigger than that.

    So, yes, it doesn't matter if the Tories lose Guildford IF they can win Gateshead and Grimsby. And things that would once have badly damaged a prine minister -- his minister brother resigning, a Cabinet minister following, etc etc - no longer count for much, if they count for anything, because chaos is expected, and priced in. IT'S A REVOLUTION.
    I fear you may be right. However, apart from Britain......or more likely England, plus perhaps Wales and for the moment N Ireland..... against the world, what policies does this revolutionary party have?
    There you have me stumped. My analysis ends at the "it's a revolution" stage.
    You do know how the French Revolution ended up, don’t you?

    The Clown’s head will be under a guillotine in no time.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,273
    Why? I have always said Boris must not extend under any circumstances whatsoever and better to go into opposition on a hard Brexit ticket than do so and this poll confirms my view
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,824

    Foxy. You may remember that I asked some questions a few months ago about my brother’s oesophageal cancer. Just to say that he died peacefully today in a hospice surrounded by his friends. Our mother was able to speak to him and then he slipped away. 63 was too young but in the end it was a good death.

    I’m sorry to hear that, awful news.
  • On Monday labour should lay a vonc in the government and the rebels agree to appointing Ken Clarke to head a unity government

    If they don't they are failing to protect our Country from a terrible fate and they will not be forgiven
  • Scott_P said:
    If the Supreme Court says he can, what will be the difference between the UK, Russia, North Korea etc.
    Like the Millar cases they become law and if Boris won then the whole system of parliamentary legislation is in real trouble, as is everybody
    It depends why he wins. The Supreme Court would have to have a good reason and logic for the victory, just as it required one for Miller's.

    If the challenge is based on for example Queen's Consent and Bercow gave a biased and a false instruction in saying it wasn't required then comparable to the doctrine of "fruit of the poisoned tree" the legislation should be invalid.

    If the Court rules strictly that Queen's Consent was required and strikes out the law on that basis, then no law will have ever been broken except Bercow giving bad instructions and that will have been put right. If Bercow resigned and was replaced by say Hoyle who then returned to an era of a truly neutral Speaker giving impartial advice that could help repair some of the damage of the last couple of years.
    Ok - so with this and a couple of previous comments, you really are deranged. PB's biggest cock, but not in a good way.
  • So 3% lead current VI poll from ComRes. Pollsters are all over the place.

    That's not a current VI poll, the question is phrased different to normal. Have they done a standard VI poll?
  • tysontyson Posts: 6,114

    Con Maj drifting:

    Best prices - Next UK GE

    NOM 5/7
    Con Maj 2/1
    Lab Maj 11/1
    LD Maj 50/1
    Bxp Maj 100/1

    Honestly, now- anyone betting on these polls and the next UK election is like my annual strategy at the Grand National--I read the names on the horses and bet on the ones that have a certain ring to them....

    No one has the first fucking clue what's going to happen with all due respect. Maybe Cummings or Hyfud perhaps...
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    You have to wonder how many MPs there will actually be left in the Parliamentary Conservative Party by the end of next week.

    Of course, if they do properly start to disintegrate then they may not be the last party to do so. At the rate things are going you can imagine Labour actually winning an election, and then all their centre Left MPs having to vote for and justify all sorts of madcap policies.

    God alone knows where this is all going to end.
This discussion has been closed.