politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson channels both Theresa May and Gordon Brown
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Little, they are polling no better than UKIP 2015 when the Tories won a majority now, after May extended they were polling up to 25%kle4 said:
Yes, but what do you think BXP will do in response to that, and what level of effect (or not) do you think their actions will have?HYUFD said:
There will be no pact with the Brexit Party as that requires abandoning the Withdrawal Agreement completely, Boris still wants to pass the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop and will campaign on that basis with No Deal a last resort to ensure Brexit on October 31stkle4 said:
What is your assumption about BXP in any election before 31 October? Do you think an agreement with the Tories will be reached, which Boris then would renege on if he passes a deal, or do you think BXP stand in some places but not enough to harm the Tories, or they stand all over the place but still not well enough to stop BoJo?HYUFD said:
If Boris wins a majority before 31st October ironically he can then finally pass the Withdrawal Agreement with some promise about a technical solution for the Irish border from the EUStark_Dawning said:
Agreed. He and Cummings would have gamed what would be the easiest to spin. Boris as the No Dealer with a heavy heart fits the bill. 'I wanted a deal, I really did, but because the people have spoken/Theresa was crap/the EU are nasty/parliament is uncooperative then No Deal it has to be. Let's make it work!'SouthamObserver said:
From here, any conceivable deal is a defeat for Johnson. No Deal is his only option.Byronic said:AlastairMeeks said:Anyone still claiming there’s a master strategy? It all looks like Frank Spencer rollerskating tonight.
There’s clearly a strategy. Get MPs so desperate they eventually agree to a new deal, offered by a spooked EU. Whether it works is moot.
What you’re seeing is tactics. Which vary from day to day, like skirmishes in a larger war.0 -
Refusing Royal Consent didn't finish Queen Anne in 1708 or William III before that (or George III on the US declaration of independence or HMQEII herself on that New South Wales Privy Council thing in 1979)TheScreamingEagles said:
Whatever happens it'll be the end of the monarchy.Gallowgate said:
Is Boris Johnson prepared to put the Queen through that?0 -
Thst does not mean he cannot do it and he will with 17 million voters behind him to respect the Leave voteAlastairMeeks said:
What is the “it” that he has the power to do? He is not the Queen and there is no precedent saying that the Prime Minister can counsel the Queen not to give Royal Assent.kle4 said:
So Boris might well do it and defend it with a whinge that Bercow started this?AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:0 -
Boris can match any spending promises Corbyn cares to make, and with greater flair too. He also has the advantage of not being a clapped-out, anti-British leftist.surbiton19 said:
The campaign and , therefore, equal time has not even started. Give a little bit of time.HYUFD said:
From anti Brexit ConsEurope but even it gives the Tories more than Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Greens combined with LDs or DUP holding the balance of powersurbiton19 said:
So advantage Boris.0 -
The Queen has no reason to listen to him and will be setting a hugely controversial precedent if she does. Why on earth should she?HYUFD said:
Thst does not mean he cannot do it and he will with 17 million voters behind him to respect the Leave voteAlastairMeeks said:
What is the “it” that he has the power to do? He is not the Queen and there is no precedent saying that the Prime Minister can counsel the Queen not to give Royal Assent.kle4 said:
So Boris might well do it and defend it with a whinge that Bercow started this?AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:0 -
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I wasn't saying he did have the power to advise the monarch not to give royal assent (the "it"). I was suggesting he would still try to do it even if he has no power to do it and no precedent to say that he can, and would grasp for a defence of his actions by blaming the Speaker for abandoning precedent first.AlastairMeeks said:
What is the “it” that he has the power to do? He is not the Queen and there is no precedent saying that the Prime Minister can counsel the Queen not to give Royal Assent.kle4 said:
So Boris might well do it and defend it with a whinge that Bercow started this?AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:
I don't think there is anything Boris would not attempt in order to prove himself committed to Brexit no matter the cost or the rules - he knows he has to convince the Farage fans to listen to him, not Farage, in a GE.0 -
I think most people, what ever their background, have an inate sense of right and wrong when it comes to individual rights and beliefs. The idea that a campaign vilifying a vulnerable minority would gain traction amongst people just because they are 'Northern' or working class is offensive and wrong.Recidivist said:
I suggest these strategists have a look at the audience queuing outside the Rocky Horror Show in northern towns. Working class people have just as wide a selection of views as middle class ones.Scott_P said:0 -
Boris will probably be a gentleman and hand over to his brother Jo after two terms!Scott_P said:0 -
Refuse to refuse royal assent, quite amusing.AlastairMeeks said:
The Queen has no reason to listen to him and will be setting a hugely controversial precedent if she does. Why on earth should she?HYUFD said:
Thst does not mean he cannot do it and he will with 17 million voters behind him to respect the Leave voteAlastairMeeks said:
What is the “it” that he has the power to do? He is not the Queen and there is no precedent saying that the Prime Minister can counsel the Queen not to give Royal Assent.kle4 said:
So Boris might well do it and defend it with a whinge that Bercow started this?AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:0 -
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Anyone wirh the letters FBPE after their name is a fucking idiot.Scott_P said:2 -
Ah yes. Let’s all have YET ANOTHER Remainery laugh at poor old racist Britain. What a stupid country Britain is, imagining that Brexit talks are ‘intensifying’ in Brussels. Jesus Christ Britain is crap and shit, how could they think that, the deluded British chavs. Isn’t Brussels clever.williamglenn said:
Oh wait. Here’s an Irish MEP talking to Irish media, saying Brexit talks are.... intensifying.
“In an interview with RTÉ Radio’s Sean O’Rourke programme, McGuinness confirmed talks were intensifying in Brussels but she said they should not be mischaracterised as a renegotiation of the withdrawal agreement.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/02/brexit-new-deal-uk-eu-boris-johnson
You people are scum. Get out of the country you hate so much0 -
The brexit maniacs are behaving as I would expect tonight on ch4 news they no longer offer any benefits of leave just the mantra that the vote must be respected. I’m sorry but they are all c****0
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As far as I can see, he has no more role in the giving of royal assent than I have.kle4 said:
Refuse to refuse royal assent, quite amusing.AlastairMeeks said:
The Queen has no reason to listen to him and will be setting a hugely controversial precedent if she does. Why on earth should she?HYUFD said:
Thst does not mean he cannot do it and he will with 17 million voters behind him to respect the Leave voteAlastairMeeks said:
What is the “it” that he has the power to do? He is not the Queen and there is no precedent saying that the Prime Minister can counsel the Queen not to give Royal Assent.kle4 said:
So Boris might well do it and defend it with a whinge that Bercow started this?AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:0 -
A song I've written anyway, to be released on the day (should it ever come) that this whole project collapses under the weight of its contradictions.
Channeling Don Mclean -
A long long time ago I can still remember how the Brexit used to make me smile
And I knew if it had its chance that it would make our people dance and we’d be very happy for a while
But parliament would always dither, instead of trying to deliver
Bad news on our doorstep, we couldn’t take one more step
I’m not ashamed to say I cried when I read that even Boris lied
And now it seems our hands are tied
The day the Brexit died
So bye bye, it was not Do or Die
Brexit stolen from the People, what a poke in the eye
Those good ole boys eating pasties and pies, singing all the liberal traitors must die
I met a friend who voted Leave and asked her if she still believed, but she just shrugged and turned away
I went on down to the Poundland store, where I’d heard the rumblings weeks before, and a man there said the bastards had to pay
In Weatherspoons the punters screamed, they hurled abuse and no longer dreamed
Of chains of Europe broken, those words they all were token
And the man they trusted like a priest – thought Nigel would surely fight at least
He’d caught the last plane for Belize
The day that Brexit died
And so we’re singing …
Bye bye, it was not Do or Die
Brexit stolen from the People, what a poke in the eye
Those good ole boys eating pasties and pies, saying all the liberal traitors must die
Saying ALL the liberal traitors must die!
:-)3 -
*Puts on nerdiest glasses, licks finger and puts it in the air*AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:
I don’t really understand why anyone thinks the Prime Minister even has a role in this process, never mind a veto.
1708 Scottish Militia Bill. Passed both houses but the French were then sighted sailing to Scotland so Queen Anne decided not to trust the Scots with guns.
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Not arguing with you, I have no expertise to do so, I just think he will say he does and will try to do so. If HYUFD is defending it, you can bet Boris is thinking it.AlastairMeeks said:
As far as I can see, he has no more role in the giving of royal assent than I have.kle4 said:
Refuse to refuse royal assent, quite amusing.AlastairMeeks said:
The Queen has no reason to listen to him and will be setting a hugely controversial precedent if she does. Why on earth should she?HYUFD said:
Thst does not mean he cannot do it and he will with 17 million voters behind him to respect the Leave voteAlastairMeeks said:
What is the “it” that he has the power to do? He is not the Queen and there is no precedent saying that the Prime Minister can counsel the Queen not to give Royal Assent.kle4 said:
So Boris might well do it and defend it with a whinge that Bercow started this?AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:0 -
There was no Prime Minister then.Drutt said:
*Puts on nerdiest glasses, licks finger and puts it in the air*AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:
I don’t really understand why anyone thinks the Prime Minister even has a role in this process, never mind a veto.
1708 Scottish Militia Bill. Passed both houses but the French were then sighted sailing to Scotland so Queen Anne decided not to trust the Scots with guns.0 -
So being a man of no morals, a history of lying and god knows what is now rejecting the sensible Tory approach of good management is right to run the countryblueblue said:
Boris can match any spending promises Corbyn cares to make, and with greater flair too. He also has the advantage of not being a clapped-out, anti-British leftist.surbiton19 said:
The campaign and , therefore, equal time has not even started. Give a little bit of time.HYUFD said:
From anti Brexit ConsEurope but even it gives the Tories more than Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Greens combined with LDs or DUP holding the balance of powersurbiton19 said:
So advantage Boris.0 -
But Lib Dems are a lot stronger. And SW England is no longer safe. Indeed the Home Counties heartland may be vulnerable too ! Labour majorities in the North are far too high in most places.HYUFD said:
Little, they are polling no better than UKIP 2015 when the Tories won a majority now, after May extended they were polling up to 25%kle4 said:
Yes, but what do you think BXP will do in response to that, and what level of effect (or not) do you think their actions will have?HYUFD said:
There will be no pact with the Brexit Party as that requires abandoning the Withdrawal Agreement completely, Boris still wants to pass the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop and will campaign on that basis with No Deal a last resort to ensure Brexit on October 31stkle4 said:
What is your assumption about BXP in any election before 31 October? Do you think an agreement with the Tories will be reached, which Boris then would renege on if he passes a deal, or do you think BXP stand in some places but not enough to harm the Tories, or they stand all over the place but still not well enough to stop BoJo?HYUFD said:
If Boris wins a majority before 31st October ironically he can then finally pass the Withdrawal Agreement with some promise about a technical solution for the Irish border from the EUStark_Dawning said:
Agreed. He and Cummings would have gamed what would be the easiest to spin. Boris as the No Dealer with a heavy heart fits the bill. 'I wanted a deal, I really did, but because the people have spoken/Theresa was crap/the EU are nasty/parliament is uncooperative then No Deal it has to be. Let's make it work!'SouthamObserver said:
From here, any conceivable deal is a defeat for Johnson. No Deal is his only option.Byronic said:AlastairMeeks said:Anyone still claiming there’s a master strategy? It all looks like Frank Spencer rollerskating tonight.
There’s clearly a strategy. Get MPs so desperate they eventually agree to a new deal, offered by a spooked EU. Whether it works is moot.
What you’re seeing is tactics. Which vary from day to day, like skirmishes in a larger war.
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Full marks for effort!kinabalu said:A song I've written anyway, to be released on the day (should it ever come) that this whole project collapses under the weight of its contradictions.
Channeling Don Mclean -
A long long time ago I can still remember how the Brexit used to make me smile
And I knew if it had its chance that it would make our people dance and we’d be very happy for a while
But parliament would always dither, instead of trying to deliver
Bad news on our doorstep, we couldn’t take one more step
I’m not ashamed to say I cried when I read that even Boris lied
And now it seems our hands are tied
The day the Brexit died
So bye bye, it was not Do or Die
Brexit stolen from the People, what a poke in the eye
Those good ole boys eating pasties and pies, singing all the liberal traitors must die
I met a friend who voted Leave and asked her if she still believed, but she just shrugged and turned away
I went on down to the Poundland store, where I’d heard the rumblings weeks before, and a man there said the bastards had to pay
In Weatherspoons the punters screamed, they hurled abuse and no longer dreamed
Of chains of Europe broken, those words they all were token
And the man they trusted like a priest – thought Nigel would surely fight at least
He’d caught the last plane for Belize
The day that Brexit died
And so we’re singing …
Bye bye, it was not Do or Die
Brexit stolen from the People, what a poke in the eye
Those good ole boys eating pasties and pies, saying all the liberal traitors must die
Saying ALL the liberal traitors must die!
:-)0 -
Wow. What next - Boris unilaterally overturns any law he likes, Boris removes voting rights of MPs, Boris removes the requirement to dissolve parliament, Boris unilaterally overturns any judicial decision, Boris abolishes habeas corpus, Boris declares himself King of Uganda?HYUFD said:
Thst does not mean he cannot do it and he will with 17 million voters behind him to respect the Leave voteAlastairMeeks said:
What is the “it” that he has the power to do? He is not the Queen and there is no precedent saying that the Prime Minister can counsel the Queen not to give Royal Assent.kle4 said:
So Boris might well do it and defend it with a whinge that Bercow started this?AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:0 -
That's an interesting comment given the leave campaign's concentration on Turkey (and by extension Turks) before the referendum.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think most people, what ever their background, have an inate sense of right and wrong when it comes to individual rights and beliefs. The idea that a campaign vilifying a vulnerable minority would gain traction amongst people just because they are 'Northern' or working class is offensive and wrong.Recidivist said:
I suggest these strategists have a look at the audience queuing outside the Rocky Horror Show in northern towns. Working class people have just as wide a selection of views as middle class ones.Scott_P said:
Or are they the 'wrong' minority?0 -
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One would hope that all of us, irrespective of our views on Brexit, would agree that a PM even trying to get the Queen to withhold ascent would be utterly, utterly in the wrong and should be removed immediately. I’m on balance mostly ok with the prorogation because there is still time for Parliament to do something about it; but seeking to ignore a Bill passing through both Houses? Yuck.AlastairMeeks said:
As far as I can see, he has no more role in the giving of royal assent than I have.kle4 said:
Refuse to refuse royal assent, quite amusing.AlastairMeeks said:
The Queen has no reason to listen to him and will be setting a hugely controversial precedent if she does. Why on earth should she?HYUFD said:
Thst does not mean he cannot do it and he will with 17 million voters behind him to respect the Leave voteAlastairMeeks said:
What is the “it” that he has the power to do? He is not the Queen and there is no precedent saying that the Prime Minister can counsel the Queen not to give Royal Assent.kle4 said:
So Boris might well do it and defend it with a whinge that Bercow started this?AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:
I presume the election business is because they can’t stomach it themselves.0 -
Ian Blackford is a seriously able communicator. Another very talented SNP politician.1
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It wasn’t really a decision, was it? It was more an emotional reflex on all sides. Now they have to concentrate.Scott_P said:0 -
You are a sad human being to ignore other peoples views0
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Don’t tell them Pike!surbiton19 said:
But Lib Dems are a lot stronger. And SW England is no longer safe. Indeed the Home Counties heartland may be vulnerable too ! Labour majorities in the North are far too high in most places.HYUFD said:
Little, they are polling no better than UKIP 2015 when the Tories won a majority now, after May extended they were polling up to 25%kle4 said:
Yes, but what do you think BXP will do in response to that, and what level of effect (or not) do you think their actions will have?HYUFD said:
There will be no pact with the Brexit Party as that requires abandoning the Withdrawal Agreement completely, Boris still wants to pass the Withdrawal Agreement minus the backstop and will campaign on that basis with No Deal a last resort to ensure Brexit on October 31stkle4 said:
What is your assumption about BXP in any election before 31 October? Do you think an agreement with the Tories will be reached, which Boris then would renege on if he passes a deal, or do you think BXP stand in some places but not enough to harm the Tories, or they stand all over the place but still not well enough to stop BoJo?HYUFD said:
If Boris wins a majority before 31st October ironically he can then finally pass the Withdrawal Agreement with some promise about a technical solution for the Irish border from the EUStark_Dawning said:
Agreed. He and Cummings would have gamed what would be the easiest to spin. Boris as the No Dealer with a heavy heart fits the bill. 'I wanted a deal, I really did, but because the people have spoken/Theresa was crap/the EU are nasty/parliament is uncooperative then No Deal it has to be. Let's make it work!'SouthamObserver said:
From here, any conceivable deal is a defeat for Johnson. No Deal is his only option.Byronic said:AlastairMeeks said:Anyone still claiming there’s a master strategy? It all looks like Frank Spencer rollerskating tonight.
There’s clearly a strategy. Get MPs so desperate they eventually agree to a new deal, offered by a spooked EU. Whether it works is moot.
What you’re seeing is tactics. Which vary from day to day, like skirmishes in a larger war.0 -
A shit of the first waterAnabobazina said:Ian Blackford is a seriously able communicator. Another very talented SNP politician.
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I see that what I wrote at 5:44 pm on the previous thread - "Anyway the important thing now is to work out which of Mrs May’s speeches Boris is going to be copying at 6 pm." - turned out to be prescient.
If only I could have similar luck at Ascot......1 -
Takes one to know one.Scott_P said:
A shit of the first waterAnabobazina said:Ian Blackford is a seriously able communicator. Another very talented SNP politician.
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kle4 said:
Yes. Next question.TheScreamingEagles said:
Whatever happens it'll be the end of the monarchy.Gallowgate said:
Is Boris Johnson prepared to put the Queen through that?
Boris won't try to embarrass HM the Queen. Her Majesty will do the right thing. It won't be the end of the monarchy.kle4 said:
Yes. Next question.TheScreamingEagles said:
Whatever happens it'll be the end of the monarchy.Gallowgate said:
Is Boris Johnson prepared to put the Queen through that?
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https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/sep/02/uk-factory-output-brexit-eu-manufacturers
I am reading the Guardian now. Maybe this has been covered on PB already.0 -
If that approach could win the next election, I'd be all for it. But it can't, and the alternative is Corbyn.nichomar said:
So being a man of no morals, a history of lying and god knows what is now rejecting the sensible Tory approach of good management is right to run the countryblueblue said:
Boris can match any spending promises Corbyn cares to make, and with greater flair too. He also has the advantage of not being a clapped-out, anti-British leftist.surbiton19 said:
The campaign and , therefore, equal time has not even started. Give a little bit of time.HYUFD said:
From anti Brexit ConsEurope but even it gives the Tories more than Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Greens combined with LDs or DUP holding the balance of powersurbiton19 said:
So advantage Boris.
Needs must when the devil drives.0 -
The observation (made here by someone IIRC) that Boris is simply re-running the May government in fast forward continues to be on point.Cyclefree said:I see that what I wrote at 5:44 pm on the previous thread - "Anyway the important thing now is to work out which of Mrs May’s speeches Boris is going to be copying at 6 pm." - turned out to be prescient.
If only I could have similar luck at Ascot......0 -
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Boh. Out-nerded. *Tips nerdiest hat*AlastairMeeks said:
There was no Prime Minister then.Drutt said:
*Puts on nerdiest glasses, licks finger and puts it in the air*AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:
I don’t really understand why anyone thinks the Prime Minister even has a role in this process, never mind a veto.
1708 Scottish Militia Bill. Passed both houses but the French were then sighted sailing to Scotland so Queen Anne decided not to trust the Scots with guns.0 -
Well quite. He’s shot his bolt too soon.Scott_P said:0 -
Yep, the hard Brexiteers could have passed May's Deal and had Brexit months ago. Now it's double or nothing, with the country's whole future on the line.Scott_P said:
The things people do for excitement.0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enabling_Act_of_1933Stark_Dawning said:
Wow. What next - Boris unilaterally overturns any law he likes, Boris removes voting rights of MPs, Boris removes the requirement to dissolve parliament, Boris unilaterally overturns any judicial decision, Boris abolishes habeas corpus, Boris declares himself King of Uganda?HYUFD said:
Thst does not mean he cannot do it and he will with 17 million voters behind him to respect the Leave voteAlastairMeeks said:
What is the “it” that he has the power to do? He is not the Queen and there is no precedent saying that the Prime Minister can counsel the Queen not to give Royal Assent.kle4 said:
So Boris might well do it and defend it with a whinge that Bercow started this?AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:0 -
Yepp. They’ll be kicking themselves as long as they live. Brexit was within their grasp, and they blew it.algarkirk said:0 -
The problem is that the more you and the Tories drive to the extreme the more corbyn becomes acceptable. You need to look a little below the line on here to see that corbyn is slowly begging to be a better alternative to Johnson (please stop calling him boris unless you use second names in all posts)blueblue said:
If that approach could win the next election, I'd be all for it. But it can't, and the alternative is Corbyn.nichomar said:
So being a man of no morals, a history of lying and god knows what is now rejecting the sensible Tory approach of good management is right to run the countryblueblue said:
Boris can match any spending promises Corbyn cares to make, and with greater flair too. He also has the advantage of not being a clapped-out, anti-British leftist.surbiton19 said:
The campaign and , therefore, equal time has not even started. Give a little bit of time.HYUFD said:
From anti Brexit ConsEurope but even it gives the Tories more than Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Greens combined with LDs or DUP holding the balance of powersurbiton19 said:
So advantage Boris.
Needs must when the devil drives.0 -
Jezza too frit for an election ? Hilarious..AlastairMeeks said:
Well quite. He’s shot his bolt too soon.Scott_P said:0 -
Nonsense though. Any extension is a maximum, it doesn't prevent leaving early if agreement is reached. That was explicit in the current extension.tlg86 said:0 -
I would have thought Con+Lab MPs would be enough.Scott_P said:
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Those are assertions, not facts, about the Parliamentary arithmetic. I suspect we will find out whether they are well-founded fairly soon.AlastairMeeks said:
Well quite. He’s shot his bolt too soon.Scott_P said:0 -
If true, what an utter disgrace -
Well that is absolutely disgusting and shameful. @BorisJohnson https://t.co/tspDf10e2C
— Nora Mulready (@NoraMulready) September 2, 20190 -
Pretty much common knowledge that the Stuarts did not have PMs. Or I’m overestimating common knowledge?Drutt said:
Boh. Out-nerded. *Tips nerdiest hat*AlastairMeeks said:
There was no Prime Minister then.Drutt said:
*Puts on nerdiest glasses, licks finger and puts it in the air*AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:
I don’t really understand why anyone thinks the Prime Minister even has a role in this process, never mind a veto.
1708 Scottish Militia Bill. Passed both houses but the French were then sighted sailing to Scotland so Queen Anne decided not to trust the Scots with guns.0 -
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I wonder if - as I think you yourself speculated recently - 31 Oct will come around with Boris Johnson having neither done nor (quite) died?AlastairMeeks said:Well quite. He’s shot his bolt too soon.
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Alexander Johnson has a simple dilemma.
If he wants to neuter the BXP, he can only offer "Clean Break" Brexit
Otherwise, the BXP will get between 10-15% of the votes and he cannot get any of the Northern Labour seats.
If he does offer a "Clean Break" Brexit, there isn't a appetite in the nation for such a strategy. People will not elect a government to do a No Deal Brexit.
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Yes he is regardless of what he says.Anabobazina said:Ian Blackford is a seriously able communicator. Another very talented SNP politician.
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And that is yet another stupid fucking comment from you given I attacked that campaign at the time. Crawl back under your rock.JosiasJessop said:
That's an interesting comment given the leave campaign's concentration on Turkey (and by extension Turks) before the referendum.Richard_Tyndall said:
I think most people, what ever their background, have an inate sense of right and wrong when it comes to individual rights and beliefs. The idea that a campaign vilifying a vulnerable minority would gain traction amongst people just because they are 'Northern' or working class is offensive and wrong.Recidivist said:
I suggest these strategists have a look at the audience queuing outside the Rocky Horror Show in northern towns. Working class people have just as wide a selection of views as middle class ones.Scott_P said:
Or are they the 'wrong' minority?0 -
Superb effort.kinabalu said:A song I've written anyway, to be released on the day (should it ever come) that this whole project collapses under the weight of its contradictions.
Channeling Don Mclean -
A long long time ago I can still remember how the Brexit used to make me smile
And I knew if it had its chance that it would make our people dance and we’d be very happy for a while
But parliament would always dither, instead of trying to deliver
Bad news on our doorstep, we couldn’t take one more step
I’m not ashamed to say I cried when I read that even Boris lied
And now it seems our hands are tied
The day the Brexit died
So bye bye, it was not Do or Die
Brexit stolen from the People, what a poke in the eye
Those good ole boys eating pasties and pies, singing all the liberal traitors must die
I met a friend who voted Leave and asked her if she still believed, but she just shrugged and turned away
I went on down to the Poundland store, where I’d heard the rumblings weeks before, and a man there said the bastards had to pay
In Weatherspoons the punters screamed, they hurled abuse and no longer dreamed
Of chains of Europe broken, those words they all were token
And the man they trusted like a priest – thought Nigel would surely fight at least
He’d caught the last plane for Belize
The day that Brexit died
And so we’re singing …
Bye bye, it was not Do or Die
Brexit stolen from the People, what a poke in the eye
Those good ole boys eating pasties and pies, saying all the liberal traitors must die
Saying ALL the liberal traitors must die!
:-)0 -
Corbyn will become PM by default, regardless of how "acceptable" he is, unless we can gain more seats fast - it's that simple. I think I can get away with calling the PM Boris since I've met him and we have certain points of background in common.nichomar said:
The problem is that the more you and the Tories drive to the extreme the more corbyn becomes acceptable. You need to look a little below the line on here to see that corbyn is slowly begging to be a better alternative to Johnson (please stop calling him boris unless you use second names in all posts)blueblue said:
If that approach could win the next election, I'd be all for it. But it can't, and the alternative is Corbyn.nichomar said:
So being a man of no morals, a history of lying and god knows what is now rejecting the sensible Tory approach of good management is right to run the countryblueblue said:
Boris can match any spending promises Corbyn cares to make, and with greater flair too. He also has the advantage of not being a clapped-out, anti-British leftist.surbiton19 said:
The campaign and , therefore, equal time has not even started. Give a little bit of time.HYUFD said:
From anti Brexit ConsEurope but even it gives the Tories more than Labour plus SNP plus Plaid plus Greens combined with LDs or DUP holding the balance of powersurbiton19 said:
So advantage Boris.
Needs must when the devil drives.0 -
Wednesday at the latestTissue_Price said:Those are assertions, not facts, about the Parliamentary arithmetic. I suspect we will find out whether they are well-founded fairly soon.
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The Tories. Great bunch of lads.Scott_P said:1 -
This is Parliament vs the People now and Boris represents the people.Scott_P said:
If 21 Tory MPs vote to extend and Boris expels all 21 MPs from the Party then anything Farage says is going to look pale in comparison. When you have the left screaming "stop the coup" as we enter an election, when you have Hammond, Clarke, Gauke etc thrown out of the party as well an election to prevent an extension . . . Farage standing against Boris is going to look silly.
Boris can go into this continuing his current line - we will work to get a deal agreed on 17 Oct and exit do or die on 31 Oct. Farage may complain he doesn't want a deal, but when Boris is literally expelling Remainers from his party he's not going to look weak on Brexit.
Boris may lose the votes of people like Mr Nabavi, TSE, Big G etc - which is a massive shame if so and I hope not - but the only people Farage will attract are people who would never vote Tory anyway.0 -
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Why was redwood knighted when they could have cut his head off?0
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If BXP voters do that, then Brexit is dead, and they can enjoy the fruits of a Corbyn / SNP / LD coalition, secure in the knowledge that no major party will ever pander to them again. Their choice.surbiton19 said:Alexander Johnson has a simple dilemma.
If he wants to neuter the BXP, he can only offer "Clean Break" Brexit
Otherwise, the BXP will get between 10-15% of the votes and he cannot get any of the Northern Labour seats.
If he does offer a "Clean Break" Brexit, there isn't a appetite in the nation for such a strategy. People will not elect a government to do a No Deal Brexit.0 -
At what point did I say revoke, ignore 2016 result, or call for ref on chance reverse 2016? The argument is leavers should be against no deal, as defeat and lack of closure no deal represents. of course there are other options.Byronic said:
Very eloquent. And largely true.egg said:
ultimately what hurts UK from No Deal is not just the indelible impact on our farming and other industry and business in such a fast forward to global Britain , but the political crisis in Britain extending into the longer term, because we wouldn’t be able to get EU to table and compromise without ourselves climbing down and sucking up exactly what they are currently asking from us. No deal is certainly not the end of it. It is not closure. No deal isn’t actually an answer to anything, it’s a billboard to the world of our failure to achieve that answer. A symbol of failure etched forever into British history.
You ignore one thing though. If we annul the referendum vote with revoke, or a 2nd referendum, that’s a big fat signal to the world that British democracy is over.
The bottom line here is we turn to no deal not to pressure the EU, but to put off the inevitable compromise we need to make in order to strike a post brexit deal with the EU.
Remainer May had years to come up with something she could only try to get passed by keeping people in dark, every bounce in the book, May and her remainer team had years, the clock barely started on PM Boris and his leaver government negotiation. Yes the vote was 2016 but its important to Brexit in the right way, to embed Brexit change, ensure longtivity of Brexit, unnecessarily rush it now, such as No Deal clearly not the preferred deal because of problems it will bring.
to get it right is better than a bad start that discredits the whole venture. Its clear the deadline is not For Boris, gives Boris too little time to explore the necessary changes, negotiate properly, ithat dates an invention of the EU, designed to frustrate Brexit. Its actually EU tactic using No Deal to pressure May’s replacement with no proper time for negotiation hence Markel saying unfeasible s 30 days.
If I were Boris I would say, give me till end of March to properly negotiate and pass the right deal
leaving in a way that discredits the venture is actually betrayal of every leave vote. That’s the truth of this situation. Is there no leaver in the country refusing to see how remainer May wasted time so not prepared to back Boris till 31st March to put it right?
The bottom line here is brexiteers turn to no deal not to pressure the EU, but out of cowardice, to postpone the inevitable compromise we need to make in order to strike a post brexit deal with the EU. How many times has HY told as as much “need to brexit October 31st or all Leave Tories and voters go to Farage.” See, the no deal is driven by fear.
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This article by Robert Craig says opinions differ, but on balance concludes that the Queen should follow the government's advice if advised to withhold assent:AlastairMeeks said:
I don’t believe that there has been a single case ever of a Prime Minister advising a monarch not to give royal assent to a bill that both Houses of Parliament have passed. So what is being hinted at is literally without precedent.Gallowgate said:
I don’t really understand why anyone thinks the Prime Minister even has a role in this process, never mind a veto.
https://ukconstitutionallaw.org/2019/01/22/robert-craig-could-the-government-advise-the-queen-to-refuse-royal-assent-to-a-backbench-bill/
However, it also says that the government is not entitled to give such advice if it has lost the confidence of parliament. So probably a VONC could prevent Johnson from depriving a bill of royal assent.0 -
Honestly, I don't see why Labour would vote for an election, but it would literally be an act of treachery from Con MPs to vote for Jez to become PM. Additionally waiting for 14 days will hurt the remainers more than it will Boris.
Boris has put everyone in a very tough spot and we're less than two months away from no deal.0 -
Weapons-grade bantz available for the second one: a PM whipping no confidence in HMG to get an election it 'doesnt want' and LOTO whipping confidence in HMG to avoid an election it 'does want' and minor parties torn between confidence (to forcibly extend A50 and their own employment) and no confidence (to get a GONU they may or may not want but an extension the do).Scott_P said:
But I think the PM would get the votes for 3.0 -
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1168601309668360193
"We shall demonstrate the power, of this fully operational battle station !"0 -
Interesting. I wonder what gives him that confidence. Maybe half the PLP will defy Corbyn and abstain. Thirty deselected Tories might do likewiseChange UK plus various independents might add a further twenty five. How would the LibDems vote?If Plaid and the SNP decided to abstain , the numbers might be there to block Johnson - but the SNP sound keen to have an election.AlastairMeeks said:
Well quite. He’s shot his bolt too soon.Scott_P said:0 -
He doesn’t represent the people he represents his own narrow financial backers that will help to keep him in power is ho he represents. He is Johnson not borisPhilip_Thompson said:
This is Parliament vs the People now and Boris represents the people.Scott_P said:
If 21 Tory MPs vote to extend and Boris expels all 21 MPs from the Party then anything Farage says is going to look pale in comparison. When you have the left screaming "stop the coup" as we enter an election, when you have Hammond, Clarke, Gauke etc thrown out of the party as well an election to prevent an extension . . . Farage standing against Boris is going to look silly.
Boris can go into this continuing his current line - we will work to get a deal agreed on 17 Oct and exit do or die on 31 Oct. Farage may complain he doesn't want a deal, but when Boris is literally expelling Remainers from his party he's not going to look weak on Brexit.
Boris may lose the votes of people like Mr Nabavi, TSE, Big G etc - which is a massive shame if so and I hope not - but the only people Farage will attract are people who would never vote Tory anyway.0 -
I think that’s already been dealt with. The government can bring forward legislation to specifically require a GE on a certain date.Scott_P said:0 -
What's with Boris Johnson referring to the leader of HM Opposition as "Corbyn" during a PM statement outside number 10?
It's "Mr Corbyn" or it's "Jeremy Corbyn" or it's "The Leader of the Opposition".
Does he think he's in Weatherspoons or at a golf club dinner or something?0 -
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If Corbyn instructs them to vote for it, how many do you think would rebel?surbiton19 said:0 -
If Corbyn can’t whip his own MPs to back an election he has been saying he wants for months that will not put him in the greatest of positions, frankly.justin124 said:
Interesting. I wonder what gives him that confidence. Maybe half the PLP will defy Corbyn and abstain. Thirty deselected Tories might do likewiseChange UK plus various independents might add a further twenty five. How would the LibDems vote?If Plaid and the SNP decided to abstain , the numbers might be there to block Johnson - but the SNP sound keen to have an election.AlastairMeeks said:
Well quite. He’s shot his bolt too soon.Scott_P said:0 -
What's with the 14th? Would we really have a GE on a Monday?numbertwelve said:
I think that’s already been dealt with. The government can bring forward legislation to specifically require a GE on a certain date.Scott_P said:0 -
Looks like the SCons are going into the election leaderless, and SLab might as well be, for all the good Leonard does.
Does this matter?
Yes.
Sturgeon and Rennie have an open field.0 -
Too bad Boris has categorically ruled out bringing it back then, and the other lot won't bother since they want to cancel Brexit.algarkirk said:0 -
They want it done before the EU Council.Benpointer said:
What's with the 14th? Would we really have a GE on a Monday?numbertwelve said:
I think that’s already been dealt with. The government can bring forward legislation to specifically require a GE on a certain date.Scott_P said:
There’s also no requirement that they be on a Thursday. That’s a convention that’s arisen since the 1930s.
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If he really wanted to insult Corbyn, he'd call him the Leader of Her Majesty's Loyal Opposition.kinabalu said:What's with Boris Johnson referring to the leader of HM Opposition as "Corbyn" during a PM statement outside number 10?
It's "Mr Corbyn" or it's "Jeremy Corbyn" or it's "The Leader of the Opposition".
Does he think he's in Weatherspoons or at a golf club dinner or something?
The cult would really hate that!0 -
The Last election was "Nicola or Ruth"StuartDickson said:Looks like the SCons are going into the election leaderless, and SLab might as well be, for all the good Leonard does.
Does this matter?
Yes.
Sturgeon and Rennie have an open field.
This one will be "Nicola or BoZo"0 -
Got a dictionary to hand?MaxPB said:Honestly, I don't see why Labour would vote for an election, but it would literally be an act of treachery from Con MPs to vote for Jez to become PM. Additionally waiting for 14 days will hurt the remainers more than it will Boris.
Boris has put everyone in a very tough spot and we're less than two months away from no deal.
Good - so look up "treachery".
And "literally".
Then edit post accordingly.
Cheers.0 -
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Yes, but some percentage of BXP voters do not trust Boris and would oppose him even if it costs them Brexit. That's why it is funny.blueblue said:
If BXP voters do that, then Brexit is dead, and they can enjoy the fruits of a Corbyn / SNP / LD coalition, secure in the knowledge that no major party will ever pander to them again. Their choice.surbiton19 said:Alexander Johnson has a simple dilemma.
If he wants to neuter the BXP, he can only offer "Clean Break" Brexit
Otherwise, the BXP will get between 10-15% of the votes and he cannot get any of the Northern Labour seats.
If he does offer a "Clean Break" Brexit, there isn't a appetite in the nation for such a strategy. People will not elect a government to do a No Deal Brexit.0 -
We keep on being assured that Remain is in a clear majority now. If so, Remainer parties should win easily and be able to put Brexit to the sword in any General Election.surbiton19 said:
An election is coming one way or another this year. Most MPs want to survive.
I think Corbyn will want an election and most Labour MPs will follow their leader.
In an election, the best way to ensure that you are there in the next Parliament is to be loyal to your party.
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Of course. Entirely predictable. The remainer legislation is a catastrophic error, for them.Scott_P said:0 -
Totally right he is boris everybody else is irrelevantkinabalu said:What's with Boris Johnson referring to the leader of HM Opposition as "Corbyn" during a PM statement outside number 10?
It's "Mr Corbyn" or it's "Jeremy Corbyn" or it's "The Leader of the Opposition".
Does he think he's in Weatherspoons or at a golf club dinner or something?0 -
Boris loves american politics, there seems little reason to doubt he would adopt culture war tactics.Cyclefree said:If true, what an utter disgrace -
Well that is absolutely disgusting and shameful. @BorisJohnson https://t.co/tspDf10e2C
— Nora Mulready (@NoraMulready) September 2, 20190
This discussion has been closed.