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He realises that if we do leave the EU he becomes irrelevant. He has to keep shouting traitor and blasphemer at everyone to try and keep in the public eye. Either that or he is doing someone else's bidding perhaps. What is the latest on Arron Banks?GIN1138 said:
Nigel would probably have accepted EEA in 2016 but like everyone he's got more extreme through this tortuous process...isam said:
Have to say, as a Farage fan and former Kipper, I don’t get his obsession with No Deal. Leaving the EU was our goal. I had assumed keeping No Deal on the table was to pressure MPs who wish to waste time into voting for a deal.Gallowgate said:0 -
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It's rather good actually. All from the Thracian valley. Lots of Roman heritage.OldKingCole said:
Sounds fantastic. Although sounds like a bit of a waste of wine.Casino_Royale said:I am very relaxed.
Just had a wine bath with my wife followed by a head, shoulders and back massage in a wine spa resort in rural Bulgaria
It's amazing how that takes the edge off.
Sounds fantastic; somewhat of a waste of wine though. Although, TBH, some Bulgarian wine is only marginally worth drinking.Casino_Royale said:I am very relaxed.
Just had a wine bath with my wife followed by a head, shoulders and back massage in a wine spa resort in rural Bulgaria
It's amazing how that takes the edge off.
Nice choice of very affordable wines.0 -
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On the contrary, I would still accept EEA.GIN1138 said:
Nigel would probably have accepted EEA in 2016 but like everyone he's got more extreme through this tortuous process...isam said:
Have to say, as a Farage fan and former Kipper, I don’t get his obsession with No Deal. Leaving the EU was our goal. I had assumed keeping No Deal on the table was to pressure MPs who wish to waste time into voting for a deal.Gallowgate said:0 -
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I'm doing a thread on the marginals and it was something I noticed a few days ago.Tissue_Price said:
Steward's enquiry as TSE wins againTheScreamingEagles said:
Paul Farrelly in Newcastle-under-Lyme.Tissue_Price said:
Jackie Doyle-Price has 3 consecutive wins by a total of 973 votes. Bonus point to anyone who knows the equivalent(ish) MP on the Labour side (3 wins by a total of 2,232).isam said:
There’ll always be Thurrock!Tissue_Price said:
Indeed it would. I appreciate this isn't the point here, but where can they actually win? Maybe Northern Labour seats and possibly Buckingham?AlastairMeeks said:It would be quite the volte face from here for the Brexit party to lay down its arms vis a vis the Conservatives.
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Hah! OK let’s play wine snob top trumps.TOPPING said:
I am such a pleb which is why I come to PB to gain enlightenment. £5,000 bottle of wine? Hardly an owner-served ampoule of Penfolds Block 42 now, is it?Byronic said:
You’re SUCH a pleb. Of course a wine bath is a thing. I had my first, about 15 years ago, here:TOPPING said:
a) tmiCasino_Royale said:I am very relaxed.
Just had a wine bath with my wife followed by a head, shoulders and back massage in a wine spa resort in rural Bulgaria
It's amazing how that takes the edge off.
b) a wine bath is a thing?
https://en.caudalie.com/spas-boutiques
At the end of my trip the owner, Mathilde, asked me to share a £5000 bottle of Bordeaux from a nearby winery. Hard times, they were. Hard.
I was once handed a nearly full bottle of Mouton Rothschild 1945. The person handing it to me said “do you want to finish this? We opened a few last night for granny’s birthday but I’ve had enough”.
The person giving it to me was a Rothschild. The bottle was worth, even then, about £10,000.
If you can beat that I shall pay you my respects and retire hurt: and drive to Sparta to buy some (cheaper) wine.0 -
That's the trouble; no-one trusts anyone. I know that's normal in politics, but at the moment it's significantly worse than normal.Nigelb said:
I'm not sure it's that - rather that they want to ensure the election doesn't somehow fall after Oct 31st ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
They are frit but how Corbyn turns it down with the SNP backing it and after all he has saidScott_P said:
And presumably they trust Corbyn on this point not massively more than Johnson.
And Cummings machinations make the situation worse.0 -
Quite. Does Blair have any self-awareness?Pulpstar said:Hah. Nothing probably tempted him more than Blair railing against the idea on the radio this morning.
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The MPs should just remove Boris. It removes No Deal and extinguishes his leadership...AlastairMeeks said:
There's every chance there won't be an election.TOPPING said:
Boris: Do you want an election?AlastairMeeks said:
Jezza: Yes. In November, after an extension of the leaving date to Jan 2020.
They would fight about no you didn't yes I did for years.
In the meantime there wouldn't be an election.0 -
Nigel might have played a blinder here. Boris is now surely completely cornered and has to go with full-on No Deal. That might buy him some short-term reprieve, but the long-term prospects will be ghastly.Gallowgate said:0 -
I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice. Can you beat that?0
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Tactics. I don't think Johnson wants to campaign on Undiluted Pure No Deal, He wants an October election so he can campaign on "Give us a mandate to get our deal with the threat of no deal". To which Farage can (plausibly) say "Tchah, we don't trust that, we're standing everywhere." I don't read Farage as a Duke of York figure who'd enjoy marching his troops down again. He likes a fight.isam said:
Have to say, as a Farage fan and former Kipper, I don’t get his obsession with No Deal. Leaving the EU was our goal. I had assumed keeping No Deal on the table was to pressure MPs who wish to waste time into voting for a deal.Gallowgate said:
Semi-O/T - here's a view from a Swiss Eurosceptic (equivalent of a mild version of the AfD but a Minister) - Brexiteers will like his throwaway hint that they might join us in research, but EEA fans will note his caution on that one:
https://www.euractiv.com/section/economy-jobs/news/faced-with-dogmatic-eu-switzerland-may-turn-to-uk-on-research-cooperation/?utm_source=EURACTIV&utm_campaign=2c98801ad5-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2019_05_27_10_05_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c59e2fd7a9-2c98801ad5-1144780430 -
I had an excellent sancerre last night. £15 from Tesco.Byronic said:
Hah! OK let’s play wine snob top trumps.TOPPING said:
I am such a pleb which is why I come to PB to gain enlightenment. £5,000 bottle of wine? Hardly an owner-served ampoule of Penfolds Block 42 now, is it?Byronic said:
You’re SUCH a pleb. Of course a wine bath is a thing. I had my first, about 15 years ago, here:TOPPING said:
a) tmiCasino_Royale said:I am very relaxed.
Just had a wine bath with my wife followed by a head, shoulders and back massage in a wine spa resort in rural Bulgaria
It's amazing how that takes the edge off.
b) a wine bath is a thing?
https://en.caudalie.com/spas-boutiques
At the end of my trip the owner, Mathilde, asked me to share a £5000 bottle of Bordeaux from a nearby winery. Hard times, they were. Hard.
I was once handed a nearly full bottle of Mouton Rothschild 1945. The person handing it to me said “do you want to finish this? We opened a few last night for granny’s birthday but I’ve had enough”.
The person giving it to me was a Rothschild. The bottle was worth, even then, about £10,000.
If you can beat that I shall pay you my respects and retire hurt: and drive to Sparta to buy some (cheaper) wine.0 -
For once we agree. The man is clearly an idiot.Alanbrooke said:
No wonder socialism / marxism / communism is such a failure with fools like Corbyn as advocates.0 -
If the Tories do want an election, hearing Blair's dulcet tones telling Corbyn not to do it must have been cause for a champagne breakfast at No 10.
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The little man is growing in stature all the time. History may yet view him positivelyScott_P said:0 -
£15?! Someone’s doing well.DavidL said:
I had an excellent sancerre last night. £15 from Tesco.Byronic said:
Hah! OK let’s play wine snob top trumps.TOPPING said:
I am such a pleb which is why I come to PB to gain enlightenment. £5,000 bottle of wine? Hardly an owner-served ampoule of Penfolds Block 42 now, is it?Byronic said:
You’re SUCH a pleb. Of course a wine bath is a thing. I had my first, about 15 years ago, here:TOPPING said:
a) tmiCasino_Royale said:I am very relaxed.
Just had a wine bath with my wife followed by a head, shoulders and back massage in a wine spa resort in rural Bulgaria
It's amazing how that takes the edge off.
b) a wine bath is a thing?
https://en.caudalie.com/spas-boutiques
At the end of my trip the owner, Mathilde, asked me to share a £5000 bottle of Bordeaux from a nearby winery. Hard times, they were. Hard.
I was once handed a nearly full bottle of Mouton Rothschild 1945. The person handing it to me said “do you want to finish this? We opened a few last night for granny’s birthday but I’ve had enough”.
The person giving it to me was a Rothschild. The bottle was worth, even then, about £10,000.
If you can beat that I shall pay you my respects and retire hurt: and drive to Sparta to buy some (cheaper) wine.0 -
It's called Don Simon in Spain. It was 60 pesetas (30 pence) a litre when I lived there. Worked for me!Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice. Can you beat that?
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Guys, he's playing a long game, remember.Beibheirli_C said:
For once we agree. The man is clearly an idiot.Alanbrooke said:
No wonder socialism / marxism / communism is such a failure with fools like Corbyn as advocates.
When he loses again, he gets to resign from a job he clearly can't be arsed to do.0 -
Who do you think was at granny's party the night before?Byronic said:
Hah! OK let’s play wine snob top trumps.TOPPING said:
I am such a pleb which is why I come to PB to gain enlightenment. £5,000 bottle of wine? Hardly an owner-served ampoule of Penfolds Block 42 now, is it?Byronic said:
You’re SUCH a pleb. Of course a wine bath is a thing. I had my first, about 15 years ago, here:TOPPING said:
a) tmiCasino_Royale said:I am very relaxed.
Just had a wine bath with my wife followed by a head, shoulders and back massage in a wine spa resort in rural Bulgaria
It's amazing how that takes the edge off.
b) a wine bath is a thing?
https://en.caudalie.com/spas-boutiques
At the end of my trip the owner, Mathilde, asked me to share a £5000 bottle of Bordeaux from a nearby winery. Hard times, they were. Hard.
I was once handed a nearly full bottle of Mouton Rothschild 1945. The person handing it to me said “do you want to finish this? We opened a few last night for granny’s birthday but I’ve had enough”.
The person giving it to me was a Rothschild. The bottle was worth, even then, about £10,000.
If you can beat that I shall pay you my respects and retire hurt: and drive to Sparta to buy some (cheaper) wine.0 -
I bottled the wine Casino Royale bathed in and sold it in an ampoule labelled Penfolds.Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice. Can you beat that?
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Yes, I have had some pints in a whetherspoon pub! Nobody is talking politics by the way....Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice. Can you beat that?
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Yes. I was told here yesterday to "grow up" for suggesting that there could be food shortages. But apparently after Michael Gove claimed “there will be no shortages of fresh food,” the British Retail Consortium issued a statement saying they had told ministers repeatedly that that wasn't true.Cyclefree said:
No basis at all. I’m not being Pollyanna-ish. Personally I fear that it could be quite bad. But the reason for saying what I did is that the government will be desperate to make the first few days look ok until press interest dies down so that they can run a “Project Fear overdone (again) story”.Chris said:
So not really any basis for saying, as you did, that it would be "nothing like as bad as feared"?Cyclefree said:
It’s very hard to assess. I expect the government to do all it can to minimise the effects in the immediate days. But there are lots of dependencies and unknown factors. For instance, if there were a virulent flu outbreak and a shortage of vaccines with consequent pressures on the NHS, how could one prove that the death of someone not admitted to hospital because of a shortage of beds was due to No Deal etc?
We are simply in uncharted territory, no country ever having done anything remotely similar. It could go OK or it could be a disaster or at any point in between, depending on whcih point in time you’re looking at
Obviously I don't know either, but based on the evidence of relatively minor causes producing quite major disruption, I find it plausible that it could be complete chaos.
My concern is more for what happens in the days, weeks, months afterwards. I gave an example over the weekend of one particular example in my industry.
But you may very well be right and it could be worse. We are in butterfly-chaos territory here, aren’t we? Certainly, doctors and food retailers are concerned and I’d trust what they say more than the government.
If ministers are lying to us about the potential for food shortages as a result of their policies, I think people should be very concerned.
We are still nearly two months away from a No Deal Brexit. I think it would be entirely prudent for people to build up some reserves of food during that period. Yet Matt Hancock publicly told people they shouldn't do so. I think that is the height of irreponsibility. If people die as a result of this reckless policy, I think he and others should be held to account.0 -
I think that is true - have a credible no deal option lined up, come to the HoC with minutes (figuratively) left on the clock, and say "back me or here's no deal".NickPalmer said:
Tactics. I don't think Johnson wants to campaign on Undiluted Pure No Deal, He wants an October election so he can campaign on "Give us a mandate to get our deal with the threat of no deal". To which Farage can (plausibly) say "Tchah, we don't trust that, we're standing everywhere." I don't read Farage as a Duke of York figure who'd enjoy marching his troops down again. He likes a fight.isam said:
Have to say, as a Farage fan and former Kipper, I don’t get his obsession with No Deal. Leaving the EU was our goal. I had assumed keeping No Deal on the table was to pressure MPs who wish to waste time into voting for a deal.Gallowgate said:
Thing is, just like the EU with its access to the internet, people both saw through that and also refused to play the game. Because game it always was, as was it with TMay.0 -
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My uncle used to bring back this stuff from France that came in ribbed plastic bottles similar to the ones they put methylated spirits in. He called it 'village idiot'. It was rather rank and gave you nasty hangovers.Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice. Can you beat that?
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There is already a shortage of flu vaccine, although apparently it's nothing to do with Brexit, simply the normal manufacturing problems. However, there is apparently a problem with a blood-pressure medication , where EMA inspectors have found contamination in Indian and Chinese factories. The EMA are on to it, but after we Leave we'll have to have our own inspectors to check these things.Cyclefree said:
No basis at all. I’m not being Pollyanna-ish. Personally I fear that it could be quite bad. But the reason for saying what I did is that the government will be desperate to make the first few days look ok until press interest dies down so that they can run a “Project Fear overdone (again) story”.Chris said:
So not really any basis for saying, as you did, that it would be "nothing like as bad as feared"?Cyclefree said:
It’s very hard to assess. I expect the government to do all it can to minimise the effects in the immediate days. But there are lots of dependencies and unknown factors. For instance, if there were a virulent flu outbreak and a shortage of vaccines with consequent pressures on the NHS, how could one prove that the death of someone not admitted to hospital because of a shortage of beds was due to No Deal etc?Chris said:
This is quite an important question, though. If we leave without a deal, how much chaos will there be - how many people will die as a result, and so on.Cyclefree said:
5. There will be a bit of chaos but nothing like as bad as feared in the immediate short-term.
I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone express an opinion on it that was backed up by actual facts.
We are simply in uncharted territory, no country ever having done anything remotely similar. It could go OK or it could be a disaster or at any point in between, depending on whcih point in time you’re looking at
Obviously I don't know either, but based on the evidence of relatively minor causes producing quite major disruption, I find it plausible that it could be complete chaos.
My concern is more for what happens in the days, weeks, months afterwards. I gave an example over the weekend of one particular example in my industry.
But you may very well be right and it could be worse. We are in butterfly-chaos territory here, aren’t we? Certainly, doctors and food retailers are concerned and I’d trust what they say more than the government.
Although Mr C might know better.0 -
I've drunk water from a stream on a mountain on the outskirts of Knoydart, after which I discovered some German Scouts were swimming naked a hundred metres upstream.Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice. Can you beat that?
What should that be called? Vin de Hoden?0 -
Last week I bought a two litre plastic bottle of red wine from the organic winemaker in his tiny deli in the dreamy remoteness of the northern Peloponnese mountains.Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice. Can you beat that?
It cost me €3. For 2 litres. And it was very drinkable and probably more enjoyable than the £10,000 bottle of Mouton R.
Ok. Off to Sparta. Epharisto1 -
I think historians will judge that the erosion of trust in public figures peaked (hopefully) about now. Politicians have always been a little slippery, but the current leadership of Labour and the CINO Party really take the biscuit. As Boris went to Eton, maybe we should call it Cummy's biscuit?OldKingCole said:
That's the trouble; no-one trusts anyone. I know that's normal in politics, but at the moment it's significantly worse than normal.Nigelb said:
I'm not sure it's that - rather that they want to ensure the election doesn't somehow fall after Oct 31st ?Big_G_NorthWales said:
They are frit but how Corbyn turns it down with the SNP backing it and after all he has saidScott_P said:
And presumably they trust Corbyn on this point not massively more than Johnson.
And Cummings machinations make the situation worse.0 -
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It's crazy to assume that embracing No Deal will win him the election.Stark_Dawning said:
Nigel might have played a blinder here. Boris is now surely completely cornered and has to go with full-on No Deal. That might buy him some short-term reprieve, but the long-term prospects will be ghastly.Gallowgate said:0 -
It was a birthday present.Gallowgate said:
£15?! Someone’s doing well.DavidL said:
I had an excellent sancerre last night. £15 from Tesco.Byronic said:
Hah! OK let’s play wine snob top trumps.TOPPING said:
I am such a pleb which is why I come to PB to gain enlightenment. £5,000 bottle of wine? Hardly an owner-served ampoule of Penfolds Block 42 now, is it?Byronic said:
You’re SUCH a pleb. Of course a wine bath is a thing. I had my first, about 15 years ago, here:TOPPING said:
a) tmiCasino_Royale said:I am very relaxed.
Just had a wine bath with my wife followed by a head, shoulders and back massage in a wine spa resort in rural Bulgaria
It's amazing how that takes the edge off.
b) a wine bath is a thing?
https://en.caudalie.com/spas-boutiques
At the end of my trip the owner, Mathilde, asked me to share a £5000 bottle of Bordeaux from a nearby winery. Hard times, they were. Hard.
I was once handed a nearly full bottle of Mouton Rothschild 1945. The person handing it to me said “do you want to finish this? We opened a few last night for granny’s birthday but I’ve had enough”.
The person giving it to me was a Rothschild. The bottle was worth, even then, about £10,000.
If you can beat that I shall pay you my respects and retire hurt: and drive to Sparta to buy some (cheaper) wine.0 -
That would be the Gavin Esler who joined the Change UK Party ?Scott_P said:
Well I suppose hes better placed than most on self destruction.0 -
But have you ever been to you?Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice.
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Theuniondivvie said:
But have you ever been to you?Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice.
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As long as its Ruddles you’re drinking.The_Taxman said:
Yes, I have had some pints in a whetherspoon pub! Nobody is talking politics by the way....Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice. Can you beat that?
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Charlene?Theuniondivvie said:
But have you ever been to you?Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice.
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He is completely mad. Why not say, "Yes, but after the extension is agreed". And, please none of those Andrew Neil shit about Parliament cannot bind future Parliaments. Really ? So , why are we still talking about FTPA 2011 ?CarlottaVance said:
An extension would still mean a lot unless Johnson and his Tories win an absolute majority, in which case, he can amend or abolish the Act.
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Cummings probably got this one right, and was depending on it.
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/11685445629540679700 -
Ok, I'll take this one:basicbridge said:Parliament has had THREE years to agree a deal. And it has failed to do so.
The corollary is that we leave without a deal.
The public seem to understand this rather better than the self-appointed guardians of moral and political rectitude on the remain side seem to realise.
No attempt was made to involve parliament in the repercussions of the referendum. There was no reaching out to craft a serious endgame position before the triggering of Article 50. Instead we had Nick Timothy and crush the saboteurs.
This has been clusterfucked all the way.
The public do not understand jack shit. How many have read Ivan Rogers' latest piece for the Spectator, and digested its implications? Have you for that matter? What is your post-no-deal pathway for the UK (if it exists) that does not involve decades of shit-eating, and a serious undermining of the integrity of the West?
But carry on doing Putin's work for him.0 -
He's a secret Leaver and doing his best to sabotage the efforts of rebel MPs.surbiton19 said:
He is completely mad. Why not say, "Yes, but after the extension is agreed". And, please none of those Andrew Neil shit about Parliament cannot bind future Parliaments. Really ? So , why are we still talking about FTPA 2011 ?CarlottaVance said:
An extension would still mean a lot unless Johnson and his Tories win an absolute majority, in which case, he can amend or abolish the Act.
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NOM and Lab maj odds drifting further whilst Con maj odds still shortening....0
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Nothing quite like a bit of Tony Blair on the airwaves to goad Corbyn into acting a certain way.AndyJS said:Cummings probably got this one right, and was depending on it.
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/11685445629540679700 -
Why not? Because Corbyn is a fucking idiot and a silly narcissist, who really thinks he can win, and Boris and Co know this, and laid a trap, and he walked in to it.surbiton19 said:
He is completely mad. Why not say, "Yes, but after the extension is agreed". And, please none of those Andrew Neil shit about Parliament cannot bind future Parliaments. Really ? So , why are we still talking about FTPA 2011 ?CarlottaVance said:
An extension would still mean a lot unless Johnson and his Tories win an absolute majority, in which case, he can amend or abolish the Act.
Ok. Sparta. Enough.0 -
Aye!DavidL said:
Charlene?Theuniondivvie said:
But have you ever been to you?Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice.
Quite a howl of anguish if you actually look at the lyrics.
Sometimes I've been to cryin' for unborn children
That might have made me complete
But I, I took the sweet life and never knew I'd be bitter from the sweet
I spent my life exploring the subtle whoring that cost too much to be free
Hey lady, I've been to paradise, but I've never been to me0 -
Not the stuff you bathe in, surely? But I agree, there are some very good, and inexpensive, Thracian wines. IIRC, and Mr Dancer will, I am sure confirm, Thracian wine has been highly thought of since time immemorial. Bit of a waste that the area was under Moslem control for so long.Casino_Royale said:
It's rather good actually. All from the Thracian valley. Lots of Roman heritage.OldKingCole said:
Sounds fantastic. Although sounds like a bit of a waste of wine.Casino_Royale said:I am very relaxed.
Just had a wine bath with my wife followed by a head, shoulders and back massage in a wine spa resort in rural Bulgaria
It's amazing how that takes the edge off.
Sounds fantastic; somewhat of a waste of wine though. Although, TBH, some Bulgarian wine is only marginally worth drinking.Casino_Royale said:I am very relaxed.
Just had a wine bath with my wife followed by a head, shoulders and back massage in a wine spa resort in rural Bulgaria
It's amazing how that takes the edge off.
Nice choice of very affordable wines.
There are some very pleasant Macedonian ones, too, from just across the border.0 -
I think it should be called "dilute German Scout piss". But to each his own.JosiasJessop said:
I've drunk water from a stream on a mountain on the outskirts of Knoydart, after which I discovered some German Scouts were swimming naked a hundred metres upstream.Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice. Can you beat that?
What should that be called? Vin de Hoden?0 -
If the election is held before October 31st I don't see why an extension is needed. If Corbyn+Others win a majority to stop "No deal" then I think they (Corbyn) can send someone (Himself maybe) to the EU to request an extension whilst they work out the plans for Labour's Unicorn Brexit or another referendum.RobD said:
He's a secret Leaver and doing his best to sabotage the efforts of rebel MPs.surbiton19 said:
He is completely mad. Why not say, "Yes, but after the extension is agreed". And, please none of those Andrew Neil shit about Parliament cannot bind future Parliaments. Really ? So , why are we still talking about FTPA 2011 ?CarlottaVance said:
An extension would still mean a lot unless Johnson and his Tories win an absolute majority, in which case, he can amend or abolish the Act.0 -
Ah, the spirit of the Brexiteers:
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1168550840778379264
All for one and everybody for himself.0 -
Paul Mason SyndromeAlanbrooke said:
That would be the Gavin Esler who joined the Change UK Party ?Scott_P said:
Well I suppose hes better placed than most on self destruction.0 -
Because, of course, everything's been really sane so far.Chris said:
It's crazy to assume that embracing No Deal will win him the election.Stark_Dawning said:
Nigel might have played a blinder here. Boris is now surely completely cornered and has to go with full-on No Deal. That might buy him some short-term reprieve, but the long-term prospects will be ghastly.Gallowgate said:0 -
Been thinking about what Boris should do to leave on 31 Oct with enough political capital to survive beyond it.
He should schedule a MV for late 28 October. Make it a free vote on whatever the status of the deal is by then. Get agreement from Gaukeward now for no extensions.
Pressure is then on his opponents.0 -
As is the welfare of UK citizens.AlastairMeeks said:Ah, the spirit of the Brexiteers:
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/11685508407783792640 -
The EU has to agree an extension on Oct 17th.Pulpstar said:
If the election is held before October 31st I don't see why an extension is needed. If Corbyn+Others win a majority to stop "No deal" then I think they (Corbyn) can send someone (Himself maybe) to the EU to request an extension whilst they work out the plans for Labour's Unicorn Brexit or another referendum.RobD said:
He's a secret Leaver and doing his best to sabotage the efforts of rebel MPs.surbiton19 said:
He is completely mad. Why not say, "Yes, but after the extension is agreed". And, please none of those Andrew Neil shit about Parliament cannot bind future Parliaments. Really ? So , why are we still talking about FTPA 2011 ?CarlottaVance said:
An extension would still mean a lot unless Johnson and his Tories win an absolute majority, in which case, he can amend or abolish the Act.
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I quite agree. I am building up my reserves.Chris said:
Yes. I was told here yesterday to "grow up" for suggesting that there could be food shortages. But apparently after Michael Gove claimed “there will be no shortages of fresh food,” the British Retail Consortium issued a statement saying they had told ministers repeatedly that that wasn't true.Cyclefree said:
No basis at all. I’m not being Pollyanna-ish. Personally I fear that it could be quite bad. But the reason for saying what I did is that the government will be desperate to make the first few days look ok until press interest dies down so that they can run a “Project Fear overdone (again) story”.Chris said:
So not really any basis for saying, as you did, that it would be "nothing like as bad as feared"?Cyclefree said:
We are simply in uncharted territory, no country ever having done anything remotely similar. It could go OK or it could be a disaster or at any point in between, depending on whcih point in time you’re looking at
Obviously I don't know either, but based on the evidence of relatively minor causes producing quite major disruption, I find it plausible that it could be complete chaos.
My concern is more for what happens in the days, weeks, months afterwards. I gave an example over the weekend of one particular example in my industry.
But you may very well be right and it could be worse. We are in butterfly-chaos territory here, aren’t we? Certainly, doctors and food retailers are concerned and I’d trust what they say more than the government.
If ministers are lying to us about the potential for food shortages as a result of their policies, I think people should be very concerned.
We are still nearly two months away from a No Deal Brexit. I think it would be entirely prudent for people to build up some reserves of food during that period. Yet Matt Hancock publicly told people they shouldn't do so. I think that is the height of irreponsibility. If people die as a result of this reckless policy, I think he and others should be held to account.
We do not have a responsible grown up government.
I felt that Britain had quite a grown up thoughtful political culture, and it was one reason I was - and to a certain extent still am - quite sceptical about the EU project. (Note: IMO there is a difference between being Eurosceptic and a Brexiteer.) But the last few years have been quite an eye opener. The extent of the frivolousness and a fundamental lack of seriousness in our politicians, with a few rare exceptions, has been shocking.
0 -
IF.Pulpstar said:
If the election is held before October 31st I don't see why an extension is needed. If Corbyn+Others win a majority to stop "No deal" then I think they (Corbyn) can send someone (Himself maybe) to the EU to request an extension whilst they work out the plans for Labour's Unicorn Brexit or another referendum.RobD said:
He's a secret Leaver and doing his best to sabotage the efforts of rebel MPs.surbiton19 said:
He is completely mad. Why not say, "Yes, but after the extension is agreed". And, please none of those Andrew Neil shit about Parliament cannot bind future Parliaments. Really ? So , why are we still talking about FTPA 2011 ?CarlottaVance said:
An extension would still mean a lot unless Johnson and his Tories win an absolute majority, in which case, he can amend or abolish the Act.0 -
Nothing to do with Blair.Pulpstar said:
Nothing quite like a bit of Tony Blair on the airwaves to goad Corbyn into acting a certain way.AndyJS said:Cummings probably got this one right, and was depending on it.
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1168544562954067970
Corbyn is and always has been a secret LEAVER.0 -
Wasn't the talk yesterday of how Boris would be trapped in number 10 until 2022? 0
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The London seats can swing counter to the average national Tory-Lab swing but if Amber Rudd is losing Hastings and Rye then the Tories are in a whole world of trouble and Corbyn is probably PM.AlastairMeeks said:Ah, the spirit of the Brexiteers:
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1168550840778379264
All for one and everybody for himself.0 -
@Casino_Royale . @BelleDelphine . Easy to confuse the two.malcolmg said:
Unless he had drained Casino Royale's bath beforehandNigelb said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fzM4KzH5ks0 -
That actually brings a tear to my eye. Back then there was a least some romance and optimism in aspects of Brexit. These days it's just grubby politics and smart arsery - solely about Cummings's one-upmanship and Boris's career.Scott_P said:0 -
No Fosters! But I might have some moretti or hophouse later!Gallowgate said:
As long as its Ruddles you’re drinking.The_Taxman said:
Yes, I have had some pints in a whetherspoon pub! Nobody is talking politics by the way....Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice. Can you beat that?
I wonder how viewcode got on in belfast? Hopefully well and might have seen stormont inside and out.
I might just look at the comments now as having too much boozy comments is bad!0 -
But apart from 50 or so Corbynistas, other Labour MPs are not Leavers, secret or otherwise.RobD said:
He's a secret Leaver and doing his best to sabotage the efforts of rebel MPs.surbiton19 said:
He is completely mad. Why not say, "Yes, but after the extension is agreed". And, please none of those Andrew Neil shit about Parliament cannot bind future Parliaments. Really ? So , why are we still talking about FTPA 2011 ?CarlottaVance said:
An extension would still mean a lot unless Johnson and his Tories win an absolute majority, in which case, he can amend or abolish the Act.0 -
I'm recalling these numbers off the top of my head, so ball park only.OldKingCole said:
There is already a shortage of flu vaccine, although apparently it's nothing to do with Brexit, simply the normal manufacturing problems. However, there is apparently a problem with a blood-pressure medication , where EMA inspectors have found contamination in Indian and Chinese factories. The EMA are on to it, but after we Leave we'll have to have our own inspectors to check these things.Cyclefree said:
No basis at all. I’m not being Pollyanna-ish. Personally I fear that it could be quite bad. But the reason for saying what I did is that the government will be desperate to make the first few days look ok until press interest dies down so that they can run a “Project Fear overdone (again) story”.Chris said:
So not really any basis for saying, as you did, that it would be "nothing like as bad as feared"?Cyclefree said:
It’s very hard to assess. I expect the government to do all it can to minimise the effects in the immediate days. But there are lots of dependencies and unknown factors. For instance, if there were a virulent flu outbreak and a shortage of vaccines with consequent pressures on the NHS, how could one prove that the death of someone not admitted to hospital because of a shortage of beds was due to No Deal etc?Chris said:
This is quite an important question, though. If we leave without a deal, how much chaos will there be - how many people will die as a result, and so on.Cyclefree said:
5. There will be a bit of chaos but nothing like as bad as feared in the immediate short-term.
We are simply in uncharted territory, no country ever having done anything remotely similar. It could go OK or it could be a disaster or at any point in between, depending on whcih point in time you’re looking at
Obviously I don't know either, but based on the evidence of relatively minor causes producing quite major disruption, I find it plausible that it could be complete chaos.
My concern is more for what happens in the days, weeks, months afterwards. I gave an example over the weekend of one particular example in my industry.
But you may very well be right and it could be worse. We are in butterfly-chaos territory here, aren’t we? Certainly, doctors and food retailers are concerned and I’d trust what they say more than the government.
Although Mr C might know better.
I think, as of last year, over 30% of Indian pharmaceutical manufacturing capacity had been offline at some point in the last 4 years due to failed FDA inspections, with an average time to switch back on in the 3-6 months range.
As with auto, Brexit will just be one more systemic problem in pharma supply.0 -
Perhaps it was reverse psychology. Blair wants an election to purge Labour and/or complete the realignmnet, so says to Corbyn, under no circumstance should we have an election. Corbyn duly complies by asking for one as he does the opposite of what Blair wants.Tissue_Price said:
Quite. Does Blair have any self-awareness?Pulpstar said:Hah. Nothing probably tempted him more than Blair railing against the idea on the radio this morning.
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Don't get me wrong. Nobody knows what will happen.viewcode said:
Because, of course, everything's been really sane so far.Chris said:
It's crazy to assume that embracing No Deal will win him the election.Stark_Dawning said:
Nigel might have played a blinder here. Boris is now surely completely cornered and has to go with full-on No Deal. That might buy him some short-term reprieve, but the long-term prospects will be ghastly.Gallowgate said:
But embracing No Deal is as high-risk a strategy as anyone can imagine.
It could lead to complete disaster.0 -
Yes, the conditional has to be pulled out frequently in discussions of hypotheticals. As Meeks rightly points out there may well be no election - the general rule that the possibility of "something" happening is always talked up by journalists still applies, as 'nothing' is always a bit of a well... dull topic.Nigelb said:
IF.Pulpstar said:
If the election is held before October 31st I don't see why an extension is needed. If Corbyn+Others win a majority to stop "No deal" then I think they (Corbyn) can send someone (Himself maybe) to the EU to request an extension whilst they work out the plans for Labour's Unicorn Brexit or another referendum.RobD said:
He's a secret Leaver and doing his best to sabotage the efforts of rebel MPs.surbiton19 said:
He is completely mad. Why not say, "Yes, but after the extension is agreed". And, please none of those Andrew Neil shit about Parliament cannot bind future Parliaments. Really ? So , why are we still talking about FTPA 2011 ?CarlottaVance said:
An extension would still mean a lot unless Johnson and his Tories win an absolute majority, in which case, he can amend or abolish the Act.0 -
No its not. By then it would be too late to do anything. They would just say so and point at Boris and say "What is coming is entirely your fault."Jonathan said:Been thinking about what Boris should do to leave on 31 Oct with enough political capital to survive beyond it.
He should schedule a MV for late 28 October. Make it a free vote on whatever the status of the deal is by then. Get agreement from Gaukeward now for no extensions.
Pressure is then on his opponents.0 -
TBF, "dilute German Scout piss" is probably preferable to many cheap wines ...viewcode said:
I think it should be called "dilute German Scout piss". But to each his own.JosiasJessop said:
I've drunk water from a stream on a mountain on the outskirts of Knoydart, after which I discovered some German Scouts were swimming naked a hundred metres upstream.Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice. Can you beat that?
What should that be called? Vin de Hoden?0 -
I wonder how many elections Corbyn has to lose before the Labour Party realises that Corbynism is a non-starter?0
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A day is a long time in politics!RobD said:Wasn't the talk yesterday of how Boris would be trapped in number 10 until 2022?
I guess Blair put the kiss of death on that course of action. More fool Jezza if he plays Bozo's game, however.0 -
Amazing that people are such absolute sheep. I don't have a mobile phone, but if I did, and someone told me I wouldn't be allowed to attend a social event without handing it over, I should find something else to do very quickly. Pitiful.CarlottaVance said:0 -
He would say “I’ve heard the concerns , No one wants no deal. So on 28 October we have one chance to avert it. I call on the EU and opposition to come together to get a deal over the line. I offer a free vote. The onus is now on everyone to come together and pass a better deal”.Beibheirli_C said:
No its not. By then it would be too late to do anything. They would just say so and point at Boris and say "What is coming is entirely your fault."Jonathan said:Been thinking about what Boris should do to leave on 31 Oct with enough political capital to survive beyond it.
He should schedule a MV for late 28 October. Make it a free vote on whatever the status of the deal is by then. Get agreement from Gaukeward now for no extensions.
Pressure is then on his opponents.0 -
Not always the best to get wine recommendations from a tee-totaller, I'll admit - but I'm getting "Bloody hell - that's good!" reactions to the M&S Terres de Moraines Madiran 2015 at £8 a bottle.0
-
If both Corbyn and Johnson want an election, the numbers will be there. Corbyn's said he wants one, wholly consistent with his earlier musings. Does Johnson ? We'll soon find out.surbiton19 said:
But apart from 50 or so Corbynistas, other Labour MPs are not Leavers, secret or otherwise.RobD said:
He's a secret Leaver and doing his best to sabotage the efforts of rebel MPs.surbiton19 said:
He is completely mad. Why not say, "Yes, but after the extension is agreed". And, please none of those Andrew Neil shit about Parliament cannot bind future Parliaments. Really ? So , why are we still talking about FTPA 2011 ?CarlottaVance said:
An extension would still mean a lot unless Johnson and his Tories win an absolute majority, in which case, he can amend or abolish the Act.0 -
Probably higher alcohol content than most American beers too.JosiasJessop said:
TBF, "dilute German Scout piss" is probably preferable to many cheap wines ...
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I've never spent more than a tenner on a bottle of wine. I doubt I have ever drunk anything much more than a 30 quid bottle in my life. Is wine the new Air Miles on PB?Byronic said:
Hah! OK let’s play wine snob top trumps.TOPPING said:
I am such a pleb which is why I come to PB to gain enlightenment. £5,000 bottle of wine? Hardly an owner-served ampoule of Penfolds Block 42 now, is it?Byronic said:
You’re SUCH a pleb. Of course a wine bath is a thing. I had my first, about 15 years ago, here:TOPPING said:
a) tmiCasino_Royale said:I am very relaxed.
Just had a wine bath with my wife followed by a head, shoulders and back massage in a wine spa resort in rural Bulgaria
It's amazing how that takes the edge off.
b) a wine bath is a thing?
https://en.caudalie.com/spas-boutiques
At the end of my trip the owner, Mathilde, asked me to share a £5000 bottle of Bordeaux from a nearby winery. Hard times, they were. Hard.
I was once handed a nearly full bottle of Mouton Rothschild 1945. The person handing it to me said “do you want to finish this? We opened a few last night for granny’s birthday but I’ve had enough”.
The person giving it to me was a Rothschild. The bottle was worth, even then, about £10,000.
If you can beat that I shall pay you my respects and retire hurt: and drive to Sparta to buy some (cheaper) wine.0 -
If Corbyn wins an overall majority he won't know whether to support Brexit or not. I think he's confused about which way to go on the subject.0
-
Definitely Francois or Baker.AlastairMeeks said:Ah, the spirit of the Brexiteers:
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1168550840778379264
All for one and everybody for himself.
0 -
I'm sure Boris and Cummings will run a Con candidate against him.Scott_P said:
Were you up for Bercow? 0 -
If you think that's good, wait until you try Lanliq.MarqueeMark said:Not always the best to get wine recommendations from a tee-totaller, I'll admit - but I'm getting "Bloody hell - that's good!" reactions to the M&S Terres de Moraines Madiran 2015 at £8 a bottle.
0 -
No. If you wait until Oct 28th, the only option left is Revoke, because it takes very little time - probably an afternoon and that includes writing the letter and sending a plane over to Brussels to deliver it.Jonathan said:
He would say “I’ve heard the concerns , No one wants no deal. So on 28 October we have one chance to avert it. I call on the EU and opposition to come together to get a deal over the line. I offer a free vote. The onus is now on everyone to come together and pass a better deal”.Beibheirli_C said:
No its not. By then it would be too late to do anything. They would just say so and point at Boris and say "What is coming is entirely your fault."Jonathan said:Been thinking about what Boris should do to leave on 31 Oct with enough political capital to survive beyond it.
He should schedule a MV for late 28 October. Make it a free vote on whatever the status of the deal is by then. Get agreement from Gaukeward now for no extensions.
Pressure is then on his opponents.0 -
To be fair to Blair if he set up a Blair party i would vote for iti!Tabman said:
Perhaps it was reverse psychology. Blair wants an election to purge Labour and/or complete the realignmnet, so says to Corbyn, under no circumstance should we have an election. Corbyn duly complies by asking for one as he does the opposite of what Blair wants.Tissue_Price said:
Quite. Does Blair have any self-awareness?Pulpstar said:Hah. Nothing probably tempted him more than Blair railing against the idea on the radio this morning.
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"Off to Sparta"Byronic said:
Last week I bought a two litre plastic bottle of red wine from the organic winemaker in his tiny deli in the dreamy remoteness of the northern Peloponnese mountains.Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice. Can you beat that?
It cost me €3. For 2 litres. And it was very drinkable and probably more enjoyable than the £10,000 bottle of Mouton R.
Ok. Off to Sparta. Epharisto
Say 'Hi' to Steve Baker.0 -
As we've discussed many times before, it's the appointment of the alternative prime minister that matters, not the vote in the House of Commons. Subject to correction, a prime minister has never been appointed because the Commons has voted that he should be appointed.Scott_P said:0 -
Anyone who does that may run afoul of the new Cumming Directive and be deselectedChris said:
Amazing that people are such absolute sheep. I don't have a mobile phone, but if I did, and someone told me I wouldn't be allowed to attend a social event without handing it over, I should find something else to do very quickly. Pitiful.CarlottaVance said:
0 -
das Deutschesscoutpisseverdünnen . Tesco, £13:99 per bottle. "...Deep purple colour. Aromas of rich dark currants, nectarine skins, gushing blackberry, but lots of fragrant tobacco, rich soil, white flowers, smashed minerals and metal. Medium-bodied and saucy but racy acidity stabilises the wine nicely with the robust tannins. Deep red currants and ripe cherries, laden with mocha, loamy soil, charred herbs, pencil shavings, roasted hazelnut...", Jilly Goolden. 4/5 stars. Best served with a strong cheese.JosiasJessop said:
TBF, "dilute German Scout piss" is probably preferable to many cheap wines ...viewcode said:
I think it should be called "dilute German Scout piss". But to each his own.JosiasJessop said:
I've drunk water from a stream on a mountain on the outskirts of Knoydart, after which I discovered some German Scouts were swimming naked a hundred metres upstream.Gallowgate said:I’ve drank Tesco Spanish table wine, sold in a carton like orange juice. Can you beat that?
What should that be called? Vin de Hoden?0 -
I think it might soon be time for Jezza to "depart" but we shall see.Beibheirli_C said:I wonder how many elections Corbyn has to lose before the Labour Party realises that Corbynism is a non-starter?
Maybe he'll do another 2017 and surprise everyone.0 -
That could be done in six hours.Beibheirli_C said:
No. If you wait until Oct 28th, the only option left is Revoke, because it takes very little time - probably an afternoon and that includes writing the letter and sending a plane over to Brussels to deliver it.Jonathan said:
He would say “I’ve heard the concerns , No one wants no deal. So on 28 October we have one chance to avert it. I call on the EU and opposition to come together to get a deal over the line. I offer a free vote. The onus is now on everyone to come together and pass a better deal”.Beibheirli_C said:
No its not. By then it would be too late to do anything. They would just say so and point at Boris and say "What is coming is entirely your fault."Jonathan said:Been thinking about what Boris should do to leave on 31 Oct with enough political capital to survive beyond it.
He should schedule a MV for late 28 October. Make it a free vote on whatever the status of the deal is by then. Get agreement from Gaukeward now for no extensions.
Pressure is then on his opponents.0 -
I doubt Francois knows the phrase collateral damageAramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Definitely Francois or Baker.AlastairMeeks said:Ah, the spirit of the Brexiteers:
https://twitter.com/alexwickham/status/1168550840778379264
All for one and everybody for himself.0 -
Live from Cabinet:
"OK team. Welcome. Although I have to say, the draw for the 2019 Cabinet wiff-waff championships seems to have got the media all of a frenzy...."0 -
No doubt. Sheep.Beibheirli_C said:
Anyone who does that may run afoul of the new Cumming Directive and be deselectedChris said:
Amazing that people are such absolute sheep. I don't have a mobile phone, but if I did, and someone told me I wouldn't be allowed to attend a social event without handing it over, I should find something else to do very quickly. Pitiful.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Change UK is basically continuity Blairism, and the Lib Dems the closest major party to that as of now.The_Taxman said:
To be fair to Blair if he set up a Blair party i would vote for iti!Tabman said:
Perhaps it was reverse psychology. Blair wants an election to purge Labour and/or complete the realignmnet, so says to Corbyn, under no circumstance should we have an election. Corbyn duly complies by asking for one as he does the opposite of what Blair wants.Tissue_Price said:
Quite. Does Blair have any self-awareness?Pulpstar said:Hah. Nothing probably tempted him more than Blair railing against the idea on the radio this morning.
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