politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Boris Johnson Invites Himself to the Battle of Ipsus
Comments
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Yes, and if you total them Con+BP=45% or very close to it pretty much every time.Sunil_Prasannan said:
See how the rise of BXP is mirrored exactly by dips in Con support, and vice versa?rottenborough said:
One for the history books.RobD said:On the topic of polls, the poll chart from wikipedia is quite something:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/UK_opinion_polls.svg/2000px-UK_opinion_polls.svg.png0 -
Clarke and Bebb are another two.geoffw said:
Letwin is standing down anyway. He can go out in a blaze of glory fighting to stay in the EU. Some others too perhaps.Philip_Thompson said:
They could already do that and it would be just a rebellion. Now if they do that they terminate their careers, their actions have consequences.Scott_P said:
They don't need to VoNC him.Philip_Thompson said:What are you talking about?
If the VoNC him then they need to either nominate another leader or there has to be an election. There is no alternative.
They can vote to make an extension the law, which leaves him in office and out of power.
The only sanction they will receive is the same one they would have if they VoNCed, which they don't need to do to achieve the same result.
They may still choose to do it, so be it, but it reduces not increases the odds of an extension being the law. And if Boris says he will act like Queen Anne and instruct HMQ to veto the law meaning they need to VONC him to achieve their legislation then we're back to square one. But less likely to get their because the threat was already made to their careers.0 -
Has anyone actually deigned to ask any of these MPs who strongly assert that they were on the verge of cancelling the recess for the Party conferences, why they didn’t just make things a lot simpler by cancelling (or even shortening!) the six week summer holiday?rottenborough said:
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You're right not this Parliament. I wanted voters to gain control.nichomar said:
You can’t be serious? If that happens I think this weekends very polite and positive demonstrations may notch up a degree. Leave wanted to take back control but I wonder who they wanted to gain that control it’s obviously not parliamentalex. said:
The idea that the Queen is going to refuse royal assent for a bill passed by Parliament is for the birds IMO.Philip_Thompson said:
They could already do that and it would be just a rebellion. Now if they do that they terminate their careers, their actions have consequences.Scott_P said:
They don't need to VoNC him.Philip_Thompson said:What are you talking about?
If the VoNC him then they need to either nominate another leader or there has to be an election. There is no alternative.
They can vote to make an extension the law, which leaves him in office and out of power.
The only sanction they will receive is the same one they would have if they VoNCed, which they don't need to do to achieve the same result.
They may still choose to do it, so be it, but it reduces not increases the odds of an extension being the law. And if Boris says he will act like Queen Anne and instruct HMQ to veto the law meaning they need to VONC him to achieve their legislation then we're back to square one. But less likely to get their because the threat was already made to their careers.0 -
Likely to get one later anyway.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Maybe but peerage's are very attractive, sadlygeoffw said:
Letwin is standing down anyway. He can go out in a blaze of glory fighting to stay in the EU. Some others too perhaps.Philip_Thompson said:
They could already do that and it would be just a rebellion. Now if they do that they terminate their careers, their actions have consequences.Scott_P said:
They don't need to VoNC him.Philip_Thompson said:What are you talking about?
If the VoNC him then they need to either nominate another leader or there has to be an election. There is no alternative.
They can vote to make an extension the law, which leaves him in office and out of power.
The only sanction they will receive is the same one they would have if they VoNCed, which they don't need to do to achieve the same result.
They may still choose to do it, so be it, but it reduces not increases the odds of an extension being the law. And if Boris says he will act like Queen Anne and instruct HMQ to veto the law meaning they need to VONC him to achieve their legislation then we're back to square one. But less likely to get their because the threat was already made to their careers.0 -
If they paid for that cartoon, they were robbed......Scott_P said:0 -
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Not really - at least 8% of that BP vote will never vote Tory.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, and if you total them Con+BP=45% or very close to it pretty much every time.Sunil_Prasannan said:
See how the rise of BXP is mirrored exactly by dips in Con support, and vice versa?rottenborough said:
One for the history books.RobD said:On the topic of polls, the poll chart from wikipedia is quite something:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/UK_opinion_polls.svg/2000px-UK_opinion_polls.svg.png0 -
Harrington is also now standing down.0
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Give me a break - several times they have said they will recommend remaining.OnlyLivingBoy said:
I did say it wasn't a very cunning plan! To be fair it is not clear what side if any Labour will take in the referendum. I think it is reasonable to give the public a final say on the deal once we know what it looks like, and I believe there is majority support in polls for that referendum to take place. So it's a reasonable position for them to take.Floater said:
aha - so they get this great deal and then at a referendum campaign against it?OnlyLivingBoy said:
Labour's policy is to negotiate a different deal based on different red lines and put it to the electorate in a referendum. To get there they want to legislate to prevent no deal and hold a general election that they want to win so they are in a position to negotiate a different deal. This plan is not particularly cunning but it is definitely one with its own defined objective and is not simply about saying no.algarkirk said:Good article. But will the anti-Boris people find a cunning plan which is pro something instead of against something?
And of course the EU will negotiate a great deal with a counter party that will recommend against its acceptance.
Do you realise how stupid that looks?
For a long time Labour did not have a coherent position but a lot of people seem reluctant to accept that they have now arrived at a plan of sorts. It certainly is not as stupid as the current government's approach, and it is far from the truth to claim that the party is simply saying no to everything, as many people here keep saying.
Explain to me how this puts Labour in a better position to negotiate than the tories?0 -
Yes really it was a mathematic equation and pretty accurate.eek said:
Not really - at least 8% of that BP vote will never vote Tory.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, and if you total them Con+BP=45% or very close to it pretty much every time.Sunil_Prasannan said:
See how the rise of BXP is mirrored exactly by dips in Con support, and vice versa?rottenborough said:
One for the history books.RobD said:On the topic of polls, the poll chart from wikipedia is quite something:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/UK_opinion_polls.svg/2000px-UK_opinion_polls.svg.png
It doesn't mean BXP will go to zero and Tories will go to 45. It is possible but not certain that BXP could go to 5 and Tories go to 40.
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Classical allusions are always welcome on PB but I’m not sure that this one works. Boris wants his opponents to come together, he wants an early VoNC, he wants an election which will get rid of the ridiculous Cucks, several of his own awkward squad and commit the rest irrevocably to government policy. Fighting the idiot Corbyn and a divided opposition is just a very useful bonus. In short, unlike Antigonus he actually wants to lose this battle to win the war.0
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Depends if you are talking chickens......Big_G_NorthWales said:0 -
#StopTheCoops was trending on Twitter the other day so that's what we're going with.Big_G_NorthWales said:
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#UpTheAldisGIN1138 said:
#StopTheCoops was trending on Twitter the other day so that's what we're going with.Big_G_NorthWales said:
#ComeOnYouLidls 0 -
The currency of outrage has been seriously debased this week.
Bad moaning drives out good moaning......1 -
I cannot believe it would be very good for Johnson to have 20 deselected Tory MPs openly advocating during an election campaign that he not be supported and was unfit for PM.Hestletine and others would be likely to reinforce that message.0
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Good Moaning!MarqueeMark said:The currency of outrage has been seriously debased this week.
Bad moaning drives out good moaning......
I brung you a massage: I was bruising the throds and noticed that Buris Johnson has gone and prerogued Perliament!0 -
The multi dimensional chess game in Scotland is impossible to read. My guess is the Scottish courts will stop the implementation of no deal Brexit in Scotland without Scottish government support this week. This will set up a showdown with Boris. He will have to decide if to ditch Scotland or a hard brexit.0
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGNVU5ZjlgAMarqueeMark said:The currency of outrage has been seriously debased this week.
Bad moaning drives out good moaning......0 -
On the contrary. At the moment even if he wins he loses because he will not have an effective majority and people like Grieve are blocking the election of his supporters in highly winnable seats. He wants a majority that he can actually rely upon. He may not get it of course.justin124 said:I cannot believe it would be very good for Johnson to have 20 deselected Tory MPs openly advocating during an election campaign that he not be supported and was unfit for PM.Hestletine and others would be likely to reinforce that message.
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To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines1 -
There a misunderstanding here.eek said:
Not really - at least 8% of that BP vote will never vote Tory.Peter_the_Punter said:
Yes, and if you total them Con+BP=45% or very close to it pretty much every time.Sunil_Prasannan said:
See how the rise of BXP is mirrored exactly by dips in Con support, and vice versa?rottenborough said:
One for the history books.RobD said:On the topic of polls, the poll chart from wikipedia is quite something:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/UK_opinion_polls.svg/2000px-UK_opinion_polls.svg.png
I was just pointing out an arithmetic fact. I wasn't suggesting that BP votes could be automatically be assumed to transfer to Con, or vice versa.
I agree with you. Some BP supporters would never vote Tory. Not sure how many, but definitely a significant number.
OK?0 -
But LEAVING IS THE START not the end.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
Does nobody understand this????0 -
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Some do but millions don'tTabman said:
But LEAVING IS THE START not the end.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
Does nobody understand this????0 -
I really don't understand your argument.hamiltonace said:The multi dimensional chess game in Scotland is impossible to read. My guess is the Scottish courts will stop the implementation of no deal Brexit in Scotland without Scottish government support this week. This will set up a showdown with Boris. He will have to decide if to ditch Scotland or a hard brexit.
The Scottish Government has devolved powers that do not include foreign affairs. The 2016 referendum was a UK-wide exercise. The UK government is acting within UK parliamentary conventions - people may not like that but I see no evidence of a breach of the law here. The UK parliament has the right to stop Boris through a VONC. The Scottish Government is a spectator. If they want to stop it then the SNP has to get Labour to table that VONC and get it over the line. That's it.0 -
Whatever happens it won't be this Mr Scandavian Scotlandhamiltonace said:The multi dimensional chess game in Scotland is impossible to read. My guess is the Scottish courts will stop the implementation of no deal Brexit in Scotland without Scottish government support this week. This will set up a showdown with Boris. He will have to decide if to ditch Scotland or a hard brexit.
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That is some u turnHYUFD said:0 -
What's that quote about democracy and meeting the average voter?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Some do but millions don'tTabman said:
But LEAVING IS THE START not the end.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
Does nobody understand this????0 -
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I think you are right. But it's a message that only lasts until 31st October.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines0 -
I think you underestimate how many of the electorate think along the lines of "If I don't do my job, or am crap at work, or play silly buggers, I get fired. These MPs have been playing silly buggers for years and deserve to be fired."justin124 said:I cannot believe it would be very good for Johnson to have 20 deselected Tory MPs openly advocating during an election campaign that he not be supported and was unfit for PM.Hestletine and others would be likely to reinforce that message.
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That's ... brave ... Archbishop. Whinging Remoaners are probably the majority of his rapidly dwindling congregation.HYUFD said:0 -
I thought Corbynistas wanted an election? Not sure how mason logic follows of being a coward by ignoring 100k people to give 40 million a chance to vote.HYUFD said:0 -
I honestly think that it is vanishingly unlikely that Lord Doherty will grant an order in this petition. He carefully did not express a view on whether the petitioners had a prima facie case but he couldn’t resist a comment that it is not a strong one. He will refuse the petition. What happens on appeal is more difficult to predict but by that time Parliament will have had the chance to have a VoNC in the government. If they lose or duck that option that will have a bearing.hamiltonace said:The multi dimensional chess game in Scotland is impossible to read. My guess is the Scottish courts will stop the implementation of no deal Brexit in Scotland without Scottish government support this week. This will set up a showdown with Boris. He will have to decide if to ditch Scotland or a hard brexit.
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I hope the returning officers know there might be an election next weekend.HYUFD said:
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You dont need to be mystic meg to see a GE is nailed on.HYUFD said:twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/1167896020073644043?s=20
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They're wrong. It's precisely because MPs HAVE been doing their job that they've stopped the coming calamity up to this point.kyf_100 said:
I think you underestimate how many of the electorate think along the lines of "If I don't do my job, or am crap at work, or play silly buggers, I get fired. These MPs have been playing silly buggers for years and deserve to be fired."justin124 said:I cannot believe it would be very good for Johnson to have 20 deselected Tory MPs openly advocating during an election campaign that he not be supported and was unfit for PM.Hestletine and others would be likely to reinforce that message.
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No most of 66% of Anglicans voted Leave, it is most of his clergy who are RemoanersTabman said:
That's ... brave ... Archbishop. Whinging Remoaners are probably the majority of his rapidly dwindling congregation.HYUFD said:
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/09/20/how-anglicans-tipped-the-brexit-vote/0 -
Because MPs are [redacted][redacted]redacted][verybadword][redacted] who couldn't find their own couch in their living room.alex. said:
Has anyone actually deigned to ask any of these MPs who strongly assert that they were on the verge of cancelling the recess for the Party conferences, why they didn’t just make things a lot simpler by cancelling (or even shortening!) the six week summer holiday?rottenborough said:0 -
Voting for the WA would be calamity?Tabman said:
They're wrong. It's precisely because MPs HAVE been doing their job that they've stopped the coming calamity up to this point.kyf_100 said:
I think you underestimate how many of the electorate think along the lines of "If I don't do my job, or am crap at work, or play silly buggers, I get fired. These MPs have been playing silly buggers for years and deserve to be fired."justin124 said:I cannot believe it would be very good for Johnson to have 20 deselected Tory MPs openly advocating during an election campaign that he not be supported and was unfit for PM.Hestletine and others would be likely to reinforce that message.
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Its cut productivity because of all of those moronic Remoaners spending all their time whining about Brexit instead of getting on and doing their jobs.Scott_P said:1 -
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Such mature analysis from you, Richard.Richard_Tyndall said:
Its cut productivity because of all of those moronic Remoaners spending all their time whining about Brexit instead of getting on and doing their jobs.Scott_P said:0 -
Ask Boris Johnson about that. He's prime minister.RobD said:
Voting for the WA would be calamity?Tabman said:
They're wrong. It's precisely because MPs HAVE been doing their job that they've stopped the coming calamity up to this point.kyf_100 said:
I think you underestimate how many of the electorate think along the lines of "If I don't do my job, or am crap at work, or play silly buggers, I get fired. These MPs have been playing silly buggers for years and deserve to be fired."justin124 said:I cannot believe it would be very good for Johnson to have 20 deselected Tory MPs openly advocating during an election campaign that he not be supported and was unfit for PM.Hestletine and others would be likely to reinforce that message.
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Just enjoying getting a few digs in at the whining maggots.Nigelb said:
Such mature analysis from you, Richard.Richard_Tyndall said:
Its cut productivity because of all of those moronic Remoaners spending all their time whining about Brexit instead of getting on and doing their jobs.Scott_P said:0 -
I am beginning to think that if Boris nee Cummings frames this as a remain parliament obstructing the vote and he has no choice but to call a GE to put democracy and the people first v the HOC, the elite, HOL and the EU he could just win0
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IMO, that has been the plan all along.Big_G_NorthWales said:I am beginning to think that if Boris nee Cummings frames this as a remain parliament obstructing the vote and he has no choice but to call a GE to put democracy and the people first v the HOC, the elite, HOL and the EU he could just win
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"Bring 'em on! I'd prefer a straight fight to all this sneaking around!"FrancisUrquhart said:
I thought Corbynistas wanted an election? Not sure how mason logic follows of being a coward by ignoring 100k people to give 40 million a chance to vote.HYUFD said:0 -
Nonetheless his congregation is rapidly dwindling, and the younger generations won't be joining it at this rate.HYUFD said:
No most of 66% of Anglicans voted Leave, it is most of his clergy who are RemoanersTabman said:
That's ... brave ... Archbishop. Whinging Remoaners are probably the majority of his rapidly dwindling congregation.HYUFD said:
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/09/20/how-anglicans-tipped-the-brexit-vote/0 -
She promised to (or was “considering to”) vote for the WA 3 times and didn’t actually vote for it oncerottenborough said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1167853008341872640
Nandy is proving to be a mature politician.
Forgive me if I don’t trust her1 -
Surely only mimicing the the tone set by the "crushing the sabateurs" and "enemies of the people" stuff the leavers were spouting months ago.MarqueeMark said:The currency of outrage has been seriously debased this week.
Bad moaning drives out good moaning......0 -
God is a Brexiteer? Who knew?!HYUFD said: 0 -
But if people such as Hestletine - and maybe Clarke - appear on our TV screens during the campaign saying ' Don't vote for this guy, He is dangerous and not to be trusted!' , the effect on Tory vote share is unlikely to be positive.DavidL said:
On the contrary. At the moment even if he wins he loses because he will not have an effective majority and people like Grieve are blocking the election of his supporters in highly winnable seats. He wants a majority that he can actually rely upon. He may not get it of course.justin124 said:I cannot believe it would be very good for Johnson to have 20 deselected Tory MPs openly advocating during an election campaign that he not be supported and was unfit for PM.Hestletine and others would be likely to reinforce that message.
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It does answer the one thing the Treasury got substantially wrong in its controversial short term predictions: If GDP falls relative to the base case, why didn't employment fall with it? The reason is that productivity fell instead.Nigelb said:
Such mature analysis from you, Richard.Richard_Tyndall said:
Its cut productivity because of all of those moronic Remoaners spending all their time whining about Brexit instead of getting on and doing their jobs.Scott_P said:0 -
No she isn't. She rejected an orderly Brexit repeatedly so demonstrably would not do anything to avoid a no deal. What she is proving is she wants to appear a mature politician, one who speaks of compromise without backing up her words with actions. At least those who say extreme things and follow them through are being consistent in approach, and their self righteousness can be honest even if they are wrong.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1167853008341872640
Nandy is proving to be a mature politician.0 -
That’s all absolutely fine and I hope those people will be the first to volunteer to accept personally the consequences of a disorderly Brexit, not just in the immediate aftermath but for as long as necessary.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
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According to TheJezziah the PD is the only party they even want to change, so none of the WA need be changed.RobD said:
Which part of the WA would Labour change? That's the only bit that matters. The PD is just window dressing.nichomar said:
Why should anybody vote for a Tory brexit. You all fail to accept that the government is a conservative one with DUP c&s they have the majority in parliament. It is their responsibility to vote for the governments policy. If they don’t then it has absolutely nothing to do with anybody else for their failure. Oppositions oppose, governments propose legislation that they are supposed to know can attract a majority. No matter how you spin it blame lies solely with the ERG, DUP and the rest of the Conservative party. Time to let the eat their own shitmatt said:
Quite. If mature now means vote according to the party line and cry crocodile tears afterwards then there are a large number of mature MPs out there. That opinion may be a brave one.RobD said:
She had three opportunities to vote for an orderly Brexit. Each time she voted no.rottenborough said:https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1167853008341872640
Nandy is proving to be a mature politician.0 -
That is why MPs need to remove Boris from office. It kills No Deal. Faffing about with legislation just plays into johnsons/cummings hands. The nuclear option is the only option...Big_G_NorthWales said:I am beginning to think that if Boris nee Cummings frames this as a remain parliament obstructing the vote and he has no choice but to call a GE to put democracy and the people first v the HOC, the elite, HOL and the EU he could just win
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It is not fine though is it. It is a complete breakdown of all of our politiciansCyclefree said:
That’s all absolutely fine and I hope those people will be the first to volunteer to accept personally the consequences of a disorderly Brexit, not just in the immediate aftermath but for as long as necessary.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
TM had the deal and it should have been agreed0 -
Boris really wants his election, if only Tory rebels will oblige him. I hope he is not rewarded for it, but he might.Scott_P said:
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And the nuclear option is a GEThe_Taxman said:
That is why MPs need to remove Boris from office. It kills No Deal. Faffing about with legislation just plays into johnsons/cummings hands. The nuclear option is the only option...Big_G_NorthWales said:I am beginning to think that if Boris nee Cummings frames this as a remain parliament obstructing the vote and he has no choice but to call a GE to put democracy and the people first v the HOC, the elite, HOL and the EU he could just win
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Tories +DUP had a majority to pass it. It was their policy. They didn't. It's their failure.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is not fine though is it. It is a complete breakdown of all of our politiciansCyclefree said:
That’s all absolutely fine and I hope those people will be the first to volunteer to accept personally the consequences of a disorderly Brexit, not just in the immediate aftermath but for as long as necessary.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
TM had the deal and it should have been agreed0 -
Yes, but it is also the end of an important phase. Does nobody understand that whenever they moan about it being the start not the end? When people claim the people want it stopped (personally I am not convinced of that, people may say that but then reject ways to stop it, one way or another) that doesn't mean that people don't know there is plenty that will come after.Tabman said:
But LEAVING IS THE START not the end.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
Does nobody understand this????0 -
Of course it is not.Tabman said:
Tories +DUP had a majority to pass it. It was their policy. They didn't. It's their failure.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is not fine though is it. It is a complete breakdown of all of our politiciansCyclefree said:
That’s all absolutely fine and I hope those people will be the first to volunteer to accept personally the consequences of a disorderly Brexit, not just in the immediate aftermath but for as long as necessary.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
TM had the deal and it should have been agreed
It was of national importance and 40 or so labour mps have since indicated they would support it0 -
I heard a caller to the AQ phone in state we should leave w/o a deal, then rejoin next year if we didn't like it.kle4 said:
Yes, but it is also the end of an important phase. Does nobody understand that whenever they moan about it being the start not the end? When people claim the people want it stopped (personally I am not convinced of that, people may say that but then reject ways to stop it, one way or another) that doesn't mean that people don't know there is plenty that will come after.Tabman said:
But LEAVING IS THE START not the end.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
Does nobody understand this????
I kid you not.0 -
Where do you think Boris is going to go if he's brought down by an unsustainable and absurd rainbow coalition of losers?The_Taxman said:
That is why MPs need to remove Boris from office. It kills No Deal. Faffing about with legislation just plays into johnsons/cummings hands. The nuclear option is the only option...Big_G_NorthWales said:I am beginning to think that if Boris nee Cummings frames this as a remain parliament obstructing the vote and he has no choice but to call a GE to put democracy and the people first v the HOC, the elite, HOL and the EU he could just win
It doesn't kill No Deal. Boris will still be there, as LOTO and representing over 300 MPs in the Commons. He will still be there at the ensuing General Election needing only a handful of gains to gain a majority.
In fact merely holding all seats won in 2017 will be enough as the bastards who brought him down from his own side will be replaced by those willing to enact the manifesto.1 -
Do the Tories and the DUP have a majority? YesBig_G_NorthWales said:
Of course it is not.Tabman said:
Tories +DUP had a majority to pass it. It was their policy. They didn't. It's their failure.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is not fine though is it. It is a complete breakdown of all of our politiciansCyclefree said:
That’s all absolutely fine and I hope those people will be the first to volunteer to accept personally the consequences of a disorderly Brexit, not just in the immediate aftermath but for as long as necessary.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
TM had the deal and it should have been agreed
It was of national importance and 40 or so labour mps have since indicated they would support it
Did they have a bigger majority before WA1? Yes
Their failure.0 -
Perfectly reasonable and democratic. Better than trying to frustrate leaving.Tabman said:
I heard a caller to the AQ phone in state we should leave w/o a deal, then rejoin next year if we didn't like it.kle4 said:
Yes, but it is also the end of an important phase. Does nobody understand that whenever they moan about it being the start not the end? When people claim the people want it stopped (personally I am not convinced of that, people may say that but then reject ways to stop it, one way or another) that doesn't mean that people don't know there is plenty that will come after.Tabman said:
But LEAVING IS THE START not the end.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
Does nobody understand this????
I kid you not.
Remainers should have become Rejoiners after the referendum rather than trying to frustrate Brexit.0 -
-
As predicted 9 hours ago on the previous thread.........HYUFD said:Wulfrun_Phil said:
On that timetable, I would expect the Government to announce its intention on Thursday to schedule a general election (by the 2/3rds route) in order for the debate and vote to be scheduled on Friday, the date of the election being scheduled for the beginning of November.
Friday's parliamentary business would then be scuppered.
0 -
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Yes there will be plenty of people who are very confused about things. Heck, we obsessives get confused about things. But many many people will say they just want 'this' to be resolved, and that does not mean that most of them are not aware that, say, leaving in any fashion will not be the end of any Brexit related things.Tabman said:
I heard a caller to the AQ phone in state we should leave w/o a deal, then rejoin next year if we didn't like it.kle4 said:
Yes, but it is also the end of an important phase. Does nobody understand that whenever they moan about it being the start not the end? When people claim the people want it stopped (personally I am not convinced of that, people may say that but then reject ways to stop it, one way or another) that doesn't mean that people don't know there is plenty that will come after.Tabman said:
But LEAVING IS THE START not the end.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
Does nobody understand this????
I kid you not.0 -
Nope.Tabman said:
Do the Tories and the DUP have a majority? YesBig_G_NorthWales said:
Of course it is not.Tabman said:
Tories +DUP had a majority to pass it. It was their policy. They didn't. It's their failure.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is not fine though is it. It is a complete breakdown of all of our politiciansCyclefree said:
That’s all absolutely fine and I hope those people will be the first to volunteer to accept personally the consequences of a disorderly Brexit, not just in the immediate aftermath but for as long as necessary.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
TM had the deal and it should have been agreed
It was of national importance and 40 or so labour mps have since indicated they would support it
Did they have a bigger majority before WA1? Yes
Their failure.
May's deal wasn't a Tory+DUP deal. And all MPs in Parliament are responsible for how they vote not just government MPs.0 -
Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the nuclear option is a GEThe_Taxman said:
That is why MPs need to remove Boris from office. It kills No Deal. Faffing about with legislation just plays into johnsons/cummings hands. The nuclear option is the only option...Big_G_NorthWales said:I am beginning to think that if Boris nee Cummings frames this as a remain parliament obstructing the vote and he has no choice but to call a GE to put democracy and the people first v the HOC, the elite, HOL and the EU he could just win
No. The GE is what Boris wants on his terms. Removing Boris from office is the nuclear option. Boris cannot have a No Deal election on his terms. Instead of Boris screwing us with No Deal. MPs will have screwed Johnson!Big_G_NorthWales said:
And the nuclear option is a GEThe_Taxman said:
That is why MPs need to remove Boris from office. It kills No Deal. Faffing about with legislation just plays into johnsons/cummings hands. The nuclear option is the only option...Big_G_NorthWales said:I am beginning to think that if Boris nee Cummings frames this as a remain parliament obstructing the vote and he has no choice but to call a GE to put democracy and the people first v the HOC, the elite, HOL and the EU he could just win
0 -
I've just had a brush with the Yoonsphere on Twitter.
Apparently one of their 'things' is solely referring to Nicola Sturgeon as Mrs Murrell. Completely normal people.0 -
Leavers have no productivity to cut.Richard_Tyndall said:
Its cut productivity because of all of those moronic Remoaners spending all their time whining about Brexit instead of getting on and doing their jobs.Scott_P said:0 -
Of course the deal should have been agreed. MPs were bloody stupid not to vote for it. But those voters who now want Brexit regardless on 31 October should be prepared to accept the consequences personally, not expect others to pay the price.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is not fine though is it. It is a complete breakdown of all of our politiciansCyclefree said:
That’s all absolutely fine and I hope those people will be the first to volunteer to accept personally the consequences of a disorderly Brexit, not just in the immediate aftermath but for as long as necessary.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
TM had the deal and it should have been agreed0 -
This is an important point to make. I think Boris should be brought down, and I hope no deal will be avoided, but as you say that is not guaranteed just by MPs taking Boris down, and in fact could risk the opposite. But I do think no deal is very likely if they don't try to do it.Philip_Thompson said:
Where do you think Boris is going to go if he's brought down by an unsustainable and absurd rainbow coalition of losers?The_Taxman said:
That is why MPs need to remove Boris from office. It kills No Deal. Faffing about with legislation just plays into johnsons/cummings hands. The nuclear option is the only option...Big_G_NorthWales said:I am beginning to think that if Boris nee Cummings frames this as a remain parliament obstructing the vote and he has no choice but to call a GE to put democracy and the people first v the HOC, the elite, HOL and the EU he could just win
It doesn't kill No Deal. Boris will still be there, as LOTO and representing over 300 MPs in the Commons. He will still be there at the ensuing General Election needing only a handful of gains to gain a majority.
In fact merely holding all seats won in 2017 will be enough as the bastards who brought him down from his own side will be replaced by those willing to enact the manifesto.0 -
TM's deal was awful and thankfully enough Tory MP's and DUP put country before party and blocked it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is not fine though is it. It is a complete breakdown of all of our politiciansCyclefree said:
That’s all absolutely fine and I hope those people will be the first to volunteer to accept personally the consequences of a disorderly Brexit, not just in the immediate aftermath but for as long as necessary.Big_G_NorthWales said:To be honest there are so many utterly barmy things being said and tweeted there is little doubt the whole country has gone round the bend
At least with those political geeks repetitively fighting their own unyielding corner
However, I have news for them, the vast majority are not into the detail but they are wanting this stopped. Arguing over further extensions ( which I agree with ) is not winning the public battle, as seen in the polls and is ironically strengthening Boris nee Cummings
Boris has a clear message we are out on the 31st October and that is what people want to hear and frankly they do not care too much for the consequences. I have several anecdotes along these lines
TM had the deal and it should have been agreed
Surprisingly, or not, enough opposition MPs put party before what they claim is good for the country and blocked it too. So we are where we are.0 -
He said he would do or die, and he didn't do.Philip_Thompson said:Boris will still be there, as LOTO and representing over 300 MPs in the Commons. He will still be there at the ensuing General Election needing only a handful of gains to gain a majority.
If the ERG don't oust him, Nigel Fucking Farage has promised to stand a candidate in every constituency which would completely destroy the Tories in an election.0 -
I hope!Baskerville said:Just for a bit of fun. My predictions for the coming weeks...
Brexiters: Endgame
https://www.lifestuff.xyz/blog/brexit-endgame
That’s pretty much my unicorn 😊0 -
0
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Anyone else sick of Old Etonians telling them what to do?HYUFD said:0 -
Is that a spoof?Scott_P said:0
