politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Brexit, the proroguing of parliament and the legal battle ahea
Comments
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Utterly wrong, 67% of London finance workers in the City of London voted Remain, 62% of working class C2s, 62% of working class DEs voted Leave.nichomar said:
The tories are just a front for hedge fund managers and tax avoiders, just admit it it will free you!HYUFD said:
Respecting British sovereignty and keeping control of our borders is also part of the Tory brand as is respecting democratic votes, the Tories are not just a neoliberal partykle4 said:
Perhaps, but I always thought support for monarchy, the UK and stable finances was part of the Tory brand and apparently that is not true either.HYUFD said:
One thing this has done is flush out liberals who were never really Tories or conservplekle4 said:
Bang on cue the 'you don't back the current policy 100% so were never really a Tory' approach.HYUFD said:
You were obviously more of a 19th century Liberal than a Tory anyway, if Corbyn gets into power it will be because the Tories do not deliver Brexit and split the rightwing vote with the Brexit Party, not because they actually deliver the Brexit the British People voted forNigel_Foremain said:
yawn. Some of us "remoaners" (yawn again) have principles. I won't vote for a Marxist, but I won't vote for a bunch of nutters and crypto-fascists either. If Corbyn does get near power it will be because of people who thought throwing away the Conservative Party USPs of sensible economics and sensible government is worth it for an emotional desire to turn Britain back to a 1950s utopia that never existed. On day the grown ups will take the Conservative Party back again. Until then it is vote LD and proud!NorthCadboll said:All the indignant remoaner Tories will have to think carefully what they wish for. If we have a GE, which is frankly more important a) remaining part of the EU and risking PM Corbyn taxing them out of existence, seeing the value of their houses collapse and their pension funds evaporate as the stock market collapses or b) it becoming slightly inconvenient to go on their 4 European holidays each year by having to queue for a wee while at the airport passport control as we used to have to do automatically until a few years ago.
Vote LibDem get Corbyn, vote Green get Corbyn, vote SNP get Corbyn. The only way to avoid getting Corbyn is to vote Tory.
https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum
The Tories under Boris are standing up for the working class against the diehard Remainer establishment, winning working class patriots much as Salisbury and Thatcher did
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Islington north and some other interesting seats maybeAlastairMeeks said:By the way, anyone not following the anti-prorogation petition is missing valuable betting information for the next election.
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It is useful both for the positives and the negatives.nichomar said:
Islington north and some other interesting seats maybeAlastairMeeks said:By the way, anyone not following the anti-prorogation petition is missing valuable betting information for the next election.
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The leaders of Italy's centre-left Democratic Party (PD) and populist Five Star Movement have agreed to form a coalition government.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-495022320 -
The failure to face up to the press is also notable. Saw Ciaran Jenkins on C4 News door-stopping some Scottish Tory non-entity earlier; reminiscent of Watchdog on the tail of a small-time rogue trader. The optics are not good.AlastairMeeks said:Just to stand back for 30 seconds. What have today’s events done to embed Brexit as something that the country can unite around?
In the long term this looks like a strategic disaster for Leave. It ensures, if it were not already sure, that Brexit will never be embedded. It will become part of the country’s folk myth that Leavers are the enemies of Parliamentary democracy.0 -
Watching Jacob Rees Mogg and John Redwood on Ch4 News feels like walking onto the set of a George Romero remake of Night of the Living Dead0
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St Albans, Richmond Park and Cheltenham, Lewes and Winchester etc to the LDs but on UNS based on YouGov the Tories will gain more Leave seats from Labour than they lose Remain seats to the LDsTabman said:
Which Remain seats do they lose?HYUFD said:
On the latest YouGov the Tories would gain 36 Labour mainly Leave seats from Kensington, Dudley North and Newcastle Under Lyme to Darlington, Weaver Vale and Rother Valleyeek said:
Really - which ones?HYUFD said:
Labour Leave seats, of which he will take about 30 to 40 on the latest polling (though he will still hold up to half the Tory seats in Scotland too anyway)El_Capitano said:
Which is not an answer to the question "where does Boris make up those 12 seats which he needs for his majority".HYUFD said:
In the European elections the Tories were 4th in Scotland and the Brexit Party second, only 28% of Scots voted Tory even in 2017 compared to 38% who voted Leave in 2016. Davidson was a strong force leading the anti SNP, pro Union cause but going down an anti Brexit path was not helping the Tories in Scotland eithereek said:So that's a few seats in Scotland last to Boris.
Where does he win them?
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/conservative
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat0 -
Còrbyn is a moron of supreme proportions and his backstory is unpleasant as it is ridiculous. Johnson's effort today however may welll have tipped the scale in the opposite direction.ydoethur said:
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!Peter_the_Punter said:
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?Omnium said:
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.not_on_fire said:I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
At least Blair and Cameron waited a few years before embarking on their respective catastrophic legacies. Johnson has managed one of his in around a month.0 -
Conte will stay PM but Salvini will be Opposition leader with his party ahead in the pollsFrancisUrquhart said:The leaders of Italy's centre-left Democratic Party (PD) and populist Five Star Movement have agreed to form a coalition government.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-495022320 -
HYUFD said:
So what will they do for the working class that is different from any other Tory government that has shafted them throughout history? There are no more council houses to give away to buy votes so tell us all what financial benefit the working class are going to get out of a Tory government.nichomar said:
Utterly wrong, 67% of London finance workers in the City of London voted Remain, 62% of working class C2s, 62% of working class DEs voted Leave.HYUFD said:
The tories are just a front for hedge fund managers and tax avoiders, just admit it it will free you!kle4 said:
Respecting British sovereignty and keeping control of our borders is also part of the Tory brand as is respecting democratic votes, the Tories are not just a neoliberal partyHYUFD said:
Perhaps, but I always thought support for monarchy, the UK and stable finances was part of the Tory brand and apparently that is not true either.kle4 said:
One thing this has done is flush out liberals who were never really Tories or conservpleHYUFD said:
You were obviously more of a 19th century LiberalNigel_Foremain said:
yawn. Some of us "remoaners" (yawn again) have principles. I won't vote for a Marxist, but I won't vote for a bunch of nutters and crypto-fascists either. If Corbyn does get near power it will be because of people who thought throwing away the Conservative Party USPs of sensible economics and sensible government is worth it for an emotional desire to turn Britain back to a 1950s utopia that never existed. On day the grown ups will take the Conservative Party back again. Until then it is vote LD and proud!NorthCadboll said:All the indignant remoaner Tories will have to think carefully what they wish for. If we have a GE, which is frankly more important a) remaining part of the EU and risking PM Corbyn taxing them out of existence, seeing the value of their houses collapse and their pension funds evaporate as the stock market collapses or b) it becoming
Vote LibDem get Corbyn, vote Green get Corbyn, vote SNP get Corbyn. The only way to avoid getting Corbyn is to vote Tory.
Bang on cue the 'you don't back the current policy 100% so were never really a Tory' approach.
https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum
The Tories under Boris are standing up for the working class against the diehard Remainer establishment, winning working class patriots much as Salisbury and Thatcher did0 -
I was always shocked to see stories about John Major in the 1990s, keeping civil servants at work until 10 or 11 at night. He didn't physically keep them there but they must have felt compelled to serve until someone put it to Major it was not fair on the staff!NickPalmer said:
I have a couple of jobs in addition to being on the Council executive, and my daytime employer does give me a few hours a week for council meetings which I make up at other times. The LibDem deputy leader has a full-time job too, as does the Green leaader. So it can be done, if it's your main hobby. But all the other Exec members are retired, and mostly sprightly people in their 70s. The problem is that we can't really ask the Council officers to keep coming to evening meetings.stodge said:
As an example, I work a 40 hour week as do many people, How would I find the time to be a local Councillor? County Councillors are nearly always either retired men or women or people with very understanding employers. The notion of talking time from work to serve on a council is just not recognised.0 -
"Queen approves Boris Johnson request to suspend parliament
Opponents of no-deal Brexit denounce the move as a ‘coup’ by the prime minister"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-suspend-parliament-queen-prorogue-commons-brexit-a9082281.html0 -
Arlene Foster is certainly the most devoted but in Scotland the Unionist vote is now made up of pro Brexit Unionist Leavers who can vote Tory and anti Brexit Unionist Remainers who can vote LD, neither need to vote SNPwilliamglenn said:
Who would you say was the most effective defender of the union in Scottish politics, HYUFD?HYUFD said:Benpointer said:
There's no threat to the Union bigger than No Deal Brexit.ydoethur said:
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!Peter_the_Punter said:
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?Omnium said:
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.not_on_fire said:I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
Even now only 46% of Scots including Don't Knows back independence even on the latest Ashcroft poll.0 -
Foster is doing her bit to help destroy it.HYUFD said:
Arlene Foster is certainly the most devoted but in Scotland the Unionist vote is now made up of pro Brexit Unionist Leavers who can vote Tory and anti Brexit Unionist Remainers who can vote LD, neither need to vote SNPwilliamglenn said:
Who would you say was the most effective defender of the union in Scottish politics, HYUFD?HYUFD said:Benpointer said:
There's no threat to the Union bigger than No Deal Brexit.ydoethur said:
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!Peter_the_Punter said:
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?Omnium said:
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.not_on_fire said:I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
Even now only 46% of Scots including Don't Knows back independence even on the latest Ashcroft poll.0 -
Probably another irrelevant distraction, but would be supremely funny all the same...
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/11667483918225489920 -
Yup, it all looks very shifty, the way they're running with this lie about it being nothing to do with brexit that's so obvious that even @HYUFD can't stick to the line.ThomasNashe said:The failure to face up to the press is also notable. Saw Ciaran Jenkins on C4 News door-stopping some Scottish Tory non-entity earlier; reminiscent of Watchdog on the tail of a small-time rogue trader. The optics are not good.
Boris being shady and dishonest is generally assumed by political nerds, but I'm not sure it's yet in the price for Joe Public.0 -
nichomar said:
They will get free movement replaced with a points system, reducing low skilled migration from the EU as the working class mainly voted for, as well as regained sovereignty, more money for the NHS and police, the higher minimum wage the Tories introduced and the taking of the lowest earners out of tax the Tories did tooHYUFD said:
So what will they do for the working class that is different from any other Tory government that has shafted them throughout history? There are no more council houses to give away to buy votes so tell us all what financial benefit the working class are going to get out of a Tory government.nichomar said:
Utterly wrong, 67% of London finance workers in the City of London voted Remain, 62% of working class C2s, 62% of working class DEs voted Leave.HYUFD said:
The tories are just a front for hedge fund managers and tax avoiders, just admit it it will free you!kle4 said:
Respecting British sovereignty tyHYUFD said:
Perhaps, but I always thought support for monarchy, the UK and stable finances was part of the Tory brand and apparently that is not true either.kle4 said:
One thing this has done is flush out liberals who were never really Tories or conservpleHYUFD said:
You were obviously more of a 19th century LiberalNigel_Foremain said:
yawn. Some of us "remoaners" (yawn again) have principles. I won't vote for a Marxist, but I won't vote for a bunch of nutters and crypto-fascists either. If Corbyn does get near power it will b proud!NorthCadboll said:All the indignant remoaner Tories will have to think carefully what they wish for. If we have a GE, which is frankly more important a) remaining part of the EU and risking PM Corbyn taxing them out of existence, seeing the value of their houses collapse and their pension funds evaporate as the stock market collapses or b) it becoming
Vote LibDem get Corbyn, vote Green get Corbyn, vote SNP get Corbyn. The only way to avoid getting Corbyn is to vote Tory.
Bang on cue the 'you don't back the current policy 100% so were never really a Tory' approach.
https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum
The Tories under Boris are standing up for the working class against the diehard Remainer establishment, winning working class patriots much as Salisbury and Thatcher did0 -
I believe he declined a few invitations didn't he, and has some anti-monarchy leanings. It was a joke alluding to that.Peter_the_Punter said:
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?Omnium said:
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.not_on_fire said:I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
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She is standing up for the majority of Northern Ireland Protestant and Unionist voters who all the polls show oppose the backstop and a border in the Irish SeaNigelb said:
Foster is doing her bit to help destroy it.HYUFD said:
Arlene Foster is certainly the most devoted but in Scotland the Unionist vote is now made up of pro Brexit Unionist Leavers who can vote Tory and anti Brexit Unionist Remainers who can vote LD, neither need to vote SNPwilliamglenn said:
Who would you say was the most effective defender of the union in Scottish politics, HYUFD?HYUFD said:Benpointer said:
There's no threat to the Union bigger than No Deal Brexit.ydoethur said:
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!Peter_the_Punter said:
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?Omnium said:
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.not_on_fire said:I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
Even now only 46% of Scots including Don't Knows back independence even on the latest Ashcroft poll.0 -
This over four days of lost Parliamentary time?Scott_P said:Probably another irrelevant distraction, but would be supremely funny all the same...
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/11667483918225489920 -
So the anti-Brexit Unionist Remainers can’t vote for the party currently still headed by the most prominent unionist politician?HYUFD said:
Arlene Foster is certainly the most devoted but in Scotland the Unionist vote is now made up of pro Brexit Unionist Leavers who can vote Tory and anti Brexit Unionist Remainers who can vote LD, neither need to vote SNPwilliamglenn said:
Who would you say was the most effective defender of the union in Scottish politics, HYUFD?HYUFD said:Benpointer said:
There's no threat to the Union bigger than No Deal Brexit.ydoethur said:
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!Peter_the_Punter said:
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?Omnium said:
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.not_on_fire said:I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
Even now only 46% of Scots including Don't Knows back independence even on the latest Ashcroft poll.0 -
The map of the constituency hot spots shows the SE Corner of England looking like a screaming face (Munsch Passim) . Oxford/shire and Cambridge/shire as the eyes, St Albans as the nose, and London as the mouth.AlastairMeeks said:By the way, anyone not following the anti-prorogation petition is missing valuable betting information for the next election.
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It is. My mum, lifelong Conservative and Leave voter but not particularly politically-minded, loathes him. What it will do is remind people of what they already knew.edmundintokyo said:
Yup, it all looks very shifty, the way they're running with this lie about it being nothing to do with brexit that's so obvious that even @HYUFD can't stick to the line.ThomasNashe said:The failure to face up to the press is also notable. Saw Ciaran Jenkins on C4 News door-stopping some Scottish Tory non-entity earlier; reminiscent of Watchdog on the tail of a small-time rogue trader. The optics are not good.
Boris being shady and dishonest is generally assumed by political nerds, but I'm not sure it's yet in the price for Joe Public.0 -
Indeed. Don't think that was Salvini's cunning plan, though.HYUFD said:
Conte will stay PM but Salvini will be Opposition leader with his party ahead in the pollsFrancisUrquhart said:The leaders of Italy's centre-left Democratic Party (PD) and populist Five Star Movement have agreed to form a coalition government.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-495022320 -
Interesting to see if Lega can rise yet further in the polls as a result.FrancisUrquhart said:The leaders of Italy's centre-left Democratic Party (PD) and populist Five Star Movement have agreed to form a coalition government.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-495022320 -
Seems a bit over the top. I think it is a stupid and outrageous move politically, but on the face of it it seems within the law of this country (court case pending, granted).Scott_P said:Probably another irrelevant distraction, but would be supremely funny all the same...
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/11667483918225489920 -
Digne is one of the few who can be considered value for money.TheScreamingEagles said:Everton get lucky,
That Digne is good at free kicks isn't he?0 -
This seems to be interrupting their enemy while he is making a mistake. It will just cause Brexiteers to find a half dozen worst examples the EU didn't investigate.Scott_P said:Probably another irrelevant distraction, but would be supremely funny all the same...
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/11667483918225489920 -
Why not? My employers expect me to.NickPalmer said:The problem is that we can't really ask the Council officers to keep coming to evening meetings.
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The EU getting involved will just polarize this even more. Leavers will use it as evidence of the EU subverting the UKs sovereignty.Scott_P said:Probably another irrelevant distraction, but would be supremely funny all the same...
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/11667483918225489920 -
And still some people cannot see why we voted to Leave.....RobD said:
This over four days of lost Parliamentary time?Scott_P said:Probably another irrelevant distraction, but would be supremely funny all the same...
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/11667483918225489920 -
+1 - they work evenings with time off in lieu.ydoethur said:
Why not? My employers expect me to.NickPalmer said:The problem is that we can't really ask the Council officers to keep coming to evening meetings.
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Why did you vote Leave? I would be interested to know your motivation!MarqueeMark said:
And still some people cannot see why we voted to Leave.....RobD said:
This over four days of lost Parliamentary time?Scott_P said:Probably another irrelevant distraction, but would be supremely funny all the same...
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/11667483918225489920 -
The claim was Corbyn 'has done nothing to threaten the union.' Which is demonstrably false.Mexicanpete said:
Còrbyn is a moron of supreme proportions and his backstory is unpleasant as it is ridiculous. Johnson's effort today however may welll have tipped the scale in the opposite direction.ydoethur said:
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!Peter_the_Punter said:
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?Omnium said:
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.not_on_fire said:I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
At least Blair and Cameron waited a few years before embarking on their respective catastrophic legacies. Johnson has managed one of his in around a month.
People do not prove Johnson is a dangerous fool by pretending Corbyn is a sane alternative. They just look like idiots.
The way to prove Johnson is a dangerous fool is to list his actions. Same goes for Corbyn.0 -
One gobsmacking feature of living in what was once pure Tufton-Bufton Cotswold chocolate box territory is the near-universal loathing of Johnson among neighbours who once regarded voting anything but Tory as a crime against nature.AlastairMeeks said:
It is. My mum, lifelong Conservative and Leave voter but not particularly politically-minded, loathes him.edmundintokyo said:
Yup, it all looks very shifty, the way they're running with this lie about it being nothing to do with brexit that's so obvious that even @HYUFD can't stick to the line.ThomasNashe said:The failure to face up to the press is also notable. Saw Ciaran Jenkins on C4 News door-stopping some Scottish Tory non-entity earlier; reminiscent of Watchdog on the tail of a small-time rogue trader. The optics are not good.
Boris being shady and dishonest is generally assumed by political nerds, but I'm not sure it's yet in the price for Joe Public.
That and the complete collapse of the Tory vote even before Tories in less favoured parts of Britain voted the fat spiv into office.
27% of Tories, said YouGov today, regarded his prorogation as "unacceptable". How many lost, once-safe, seats does that translate into?
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Parliament has repeated voted the WA including the backstop downegg said:
It’s up to Britain to provide a solution. Where’s that alternative backstop Boris?dixiedean said:
Where it has always been.egg said:
Where is that backstop alternative Boris?Benpointer said:
Welcome to PB Mr Egg.egg said:
Lets not rule out this as clever, Trumpesque, base mobilising smoke screen. Nothing more. There’s only one action top of Boris to do list, whats the alternate plan for the backstop.
The backstop is there to avoid a hard border across Ireland when UK and EU are operating different customs regimes. The hard border not only breaks treaties signed up to by the UK government, in practice it will become focal for protest, likely end up with British troops manning it. The previous PMs negotiation came up with this backstop, did not come up with an alternative even in face of mortal destruction. Boris governments official policy is not we don’t like the backstop so no backstop, the only honest policy or realistic negotiation is an alternative plan to be agreed with EU replacing proposed backstop, something Boris with customary oomph agreed to have settled in just 30 days last week, accepting it was up to Britain to provide a solution, and said he was "more than happy" with the "blistering timetable" Merkel had set out.
So Boris, the EU heads of state and negotiators, the British people, the whole world is waiting to hear your plan for alternative backstop, your timetable is ticking down.
If the opposition parties are smart they shouldn’t allow themselves to be distracted, this is the line they should keep the pressure up with. “why are you prevaricating day after day and chucking out Trumpesque chaff?” Where’s your backstop alternative?
Your point is a good one... where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Don’t let him get away with Trump style distractions.
Where is that backstop alternative Boris? Should be the only question in town.
So Boris has told the EU it is unacceptable
If there is no alternative that can be developed - and it would be more sensible to approach this in a collaborative manner - then there is No Deal0 -
How non political people are seeing it
If the bad language is too much for this site, feel free to delete, editors
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I reckon Kean will also prove to be value for money.dixiedean said:
Digne is one of the few who can be considered value for money.TheScreamingEagles said:Everton get lucky,
That Digne is good at free kicks isn't he?0 -
You've paid a lot for him, but I think Iwobi will do a good job for you.dixiedean said:
Digne is one of the few who can be considered value for money.TheScreamingEagles said:Everton get lucky,
That Digne is good at free kicks isn't he?0 -
On non-Brexit matters, Trump's latest round of rantings today has me thinking. I think Mike Pence might be underrated as next President. Imagine Trump loses in 2020 and goes completely nuts in his lame duck period. Refusing to leave office, pardons to all sorts of cronies, a whole bunch of stuff to enrich and protect himself. So far the Republicans have kneeled to him as the leader of the party, but once he is a lost cause, they will be desperate to get rid of him. There has to be a pretty big chance of an Article 25 removal from his cabinet.0
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"Hitler's first act as chancellor was to ask Hindenburg to dissolve the Reichstag, so that the Nazis .... could win an outright majority to pass the Enabling Act "Yorkcity said:
Corbyn or Johnson? You decide.0 -
I don't even get that, although I do of course have more non-teaching weeks.eek said:
+1 - they work evenings with time off in lieu.ydoethur said:
Why not? My employers expect me to.NickPalmer said:The problem is that we can't really ask the Council officers to keep coming to evening meetings.
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Have you factored in the post-Ruthie Scottish Tory wipe out?HYUFD said:
St Albans, Richmond Park and Cheltenham, Lewes and Winchester etc to the LDs but on UNS based on YouGov the Tories will gain more Leave seats from Labour than they lose Remain seats to the LDsTabman said:
Which Remain seats do they lose?HYUFD said:
On the latest YouGov the Tories would gain 36 Labour mainly Leave seats from Kensington, Dudley North and Newcastle Under Lyme to Darlington, Weaver Vale and Rother Valleyeek said:
Really - which ones?HYUFD said:
Labour Leave seats, of which he will take about 30 to 40 on the latest polling (though he will still hold up to half the Tory seats in Scotland too anyway)El_Capitano said:
Which is not an answer to the question "where does Boris make up those 12 seats which he needs for his majority".HYUFD said:
In the European elections the Tories were 4th in Scotland and the Brexit Party second, only 28% of Scots voted Tory even in 2017 compared to 38% who voted Leave in 2016. Davidson was a strong force leading the anti SNP, pro Union cause but going down an anti Brexit path was not helping the Tories in Scotland eithereek said:So that's a few seats in Scotland last to Boris.
Where does he win them?
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/conservative
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat0 -
Given the lack of collaboration - no deal looks a certainty.Charles said:
Parliament has repeated voted the WA including the backstop downegg said:
It’s up to Britain to provide a solution. Where’s that alternative backstop Boris?dixiedean said:
Where it has always been.egg said:
Where is that backstop alternative Boris?Benpointer said:
Welcome to PB Mr Egg.egg said:
Lets not rule out this as clever, Trumpesque, base mobilising smoke screen. Nothing more. There’s only one action top of Boris to do list, whats the alternate plan for the backstop.
The backstop is there to avoid a hard border across Ireland when UK and EU are operating different customs regimes. The hard border not only breaks treaties signed up to by the UK government, in practice it will become focal for protest, likely end up with British troops manning it. The previous PMs negotiation came up with this backstop, did not come up with an alternative even in face of mortal destruction. Boris governments official policy is not we don’t like the backstop so no backstop, the only honest policy or realistic negotiation is an alternative plan to be agreed with EU replacing proposed backstop, something Boris with customary oomph agreed to have settled in just 30 days last week, accepting it was up to Britain to provide a solution, and said he was "more than happy" with the "blistering timetable" Merkel had set out.
So Boris, the EU heads of state and negotiators, the British people, the whole world is waiting to hear your plan for alternative backstop, your timetable is ticking down.
If the opposition parties are smart they shouldn’t allow themselves to be distracted, this is the line they should keep the pressure up with. “why are you prevaricating day after day and chucking out Trumpesque chaff?” Where’s your backstop alternative?
Your point is a good one... where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Don’t let him get away with Trump style distractions.
Where is that backstop alternative Boris? Should be the only question in town.
So Boris has told the EU it is unacceptable
If there is no alternative that can be developed - and it would be more sensible to approach this in a collaborative manner - then there is No Deal0 -
He doesn't think it will happen.SandyRentool said:
Have you factored in the post-Ruthie Scottish Tory wipe out?HYUFD said:
St Albans, Richmond Park and Cheltenham, Lewes and Winchester etc to the LDs but on UNS based on YouGov the Tories will gain more Leave seats from Labour than they lose Remain seats to the LDsTabman said:
Which Remain seats do they lose?HYUFD said:
On the latest YouGov the Tories would gain 36 Labour mainly Leave seats from Kensington, Dudley North and Newcastle Under Lyme to Darlington, Weaver Vale and Rother Valleyeek said:
Really - which ones?HYUFD said:
Labour Leave seats, of which he will take about 30 to 40 on the latest polling (though he will still hold up to half the Tory seats in Scotland too anyway)El_Capitano said:
Which is not an answer to the question "where does Boris make up those 12 seats which he needs for his majority".HYUFD said:
In the European elections the Tories were 4th in Scotland and the Brexit Party second, only 28% of Scots voted Tory even in 2017 compared to 38% who voted Leave in 2016. Davidson was a strong force leading the anti SNP, pro Union cause but going down an anti Brexit path was not helping the Tories in Scotland eithereek said:So that's a few seats in Scotland last to Boris.
Where does he win them?
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/conservative
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat0 -
Yes but....he's nearly 100. He won't be there for more than a year or two. The Lib Dems would be my preference but unless the tactical voters are more precise than they've been in the past it's too big a risk. In order of preference. 1234567.....Keeping Johnson and his proto fascists out. 8. Keeping Corbyn out. There are no good choices that are possible.Tabman said:
I refer the honourable gentleman to Weimar 1933.Roger said:He's bloody awful but at least he has principles and he's removable.
0 -
A close friend worked with John Major at the Treasury. He was popular with the staff, mostly because of his innate modesty and down to earth nature. He would lunch in the canteen with the secretaries for example. This was a sharp contrast to the arrogance of most Tory ministers of the time. As such the staff were very willing to put in an effort for John.The_Taxman said:
I was always shocked to see stories about John Major in the 1990s, keeping civil servants at work until 10 or 11 at night. He didn't physically keep them there but they must have felt compelled to serve until someone put it to Major it was not fair on the staff!NickPalmer said:
I have a couple of jobs in addition to being on the Council executive, and my daytime employer does give me a few hours a week for council meetings which I make up at other times. The LibDem deputy leader has a full-time job too, as does the Green leaader. So it can be done, if it's your main hobby. But all the other Exec members are retired, and mostly sprightly people in their 70s. The problem is that we can't really ask the Council officers to keep coming to evening meetings.stodge said:
As an example, I work a 40 hour week as do many people, How would I find the time to be a local Councillor? County Councillors are nearly always either retired men or women or people with very understanding employers. The notion of talking time from work to serve on a council is just not recognised.
The same friend has more recently worked with Boris. Opinion unprintable!0 -
He may not be a sane alternative, but i fail to see how he is that much worse. The Tory fear attacks about him will still work to a degree, but not as much as they may have once.ydoethur said:
The claim was Corbyn 'has done nothing to threaten the union.' Which is demonstrably false.Mexicanpete said:
Còrbyn is a moron of supreme proportions and his backstory is unpleasant as it is ridiculous. Johnson's effort today however may welll have tipped the scale in the opposite direction.ydoethur said:
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!Peter_the_Punter said:
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?Omnium said:
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.not_on_fire said:I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
At least Blair and Cameron waited a few years before embarking on their respective catastrophic legacies. Johnson has managed one of his in around a month.
People do not prove Johnson is a dangerous fool by pretending Corbyn is a sane alternative. They just look like idiots.
The way to prove Johnson is a dangerous fool is to list his actions. Same goes for Corbyn.1 -
Sounds like most of the aggression is from the virtuous people trying to stop Brexit. Funny how often self-perceived virtue and violence go hand in fistCatMan said:Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight...
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1166783890503143426?s=200 -
-
Corbyn is a dangerous fool. Johnson on the other hand is no fool. He is however extremely wilfully dangerous.ydoethur said:
The claim was Corbyn 'has done nothing to threaten the union.' Which is demonstrably false.Mexicanpete said:
Còrbyn is a moron of supreme proportions and his backstory is unpleasant as it is ridiculous. Johnson's effort today however may welll have tipped the scale in the opposite direction.ydoethur said:
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!Peter_the_Punter said:
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?Omnium said:
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.not_on_fire said:I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
At least Blair and Cameron waited a few years before embarking on their respective catastrophic legacies. Johnson has managed one of his in around a month.
People do not prove Johnson is a dangerous fool by pretending Corbyn is a sane alternative. They just look like idiots.
The way to prove Johnson is a dangerous fool is to list his actions. Same goes for Corbyn.0 -
-
There is an alternative - Labour Brexit. However 2 Tory PMs have been too pig-headed to accept this.Charles said:
Parliament has repeated voted the WA including the backstop downegg said:
It’s up to Britain to provide a solution. Where’s that alternative backstop Boris?dixiedean said:
Where it has always been.egg said:
Where is that backstop alternative Boris?Benpointer said:
Welcome to PB Mr Egg.egg said:
Lets not rule out this as clever, Trumpesque, base mobilising smoke screen. Nothing more. There’s only one action top of Boris to do list, whats the alternate plan for the backstop.
The backstop is there to avoid a hard border across Ireland when UK and EU are operating different customs regimes. The hard border not only breaks treaties signed up to by the UK government, in practice it will become focal for protest, likely end up with British troops manning it. The previous PMs negotiation came up with this backstop, did not come up with an alternative even in face of mortal destruction. Boris governments official policy is not we don’t like the backstop so no backstop, the only honest policy or realistic negotiation is an alternative plan to be agreed with EU replacing proposed backstop, something Boris with customary oomph agreed to have settled in just 30 days last week, accepting it was up to Britain to provide a solution, and said he was "more than happy" with the "blistering timetable" Merkel had set out.
So Boris, the EU heads of state and negotiators, the British people, the whole world is waiting to hear your plan for alternative backstop, your timetable is ticking down.
If the opposition parties are smart they shouldn’t allow themselves to be distracted, this is the line they should keep the pressure up with. “why are you prevaricating day after day and chucking out Trumpesque chaff?” Where’s your backstop alternative?
Your point is a good one... where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Don’t let him get away with Trump style distractions.
Where is that backstop alternative Boris? Should be the only question in town.
So Boris has told the EU it is unacceptable
If there is no alternative that can be developed - and it would be more sensible to approach this in a collaborative manner - then there is No Deal
0 -
I think Labour will have a better ground game than the Tories next time out. That might make a big difference in those Labour leave seats, given that Brexit is a much less salient issue for Labour inclined voters.HYUFD said:
St Albans, Richmond Park and Cheltenham, Lewes and Winchester etc to the LDs but on UNS based on YouGov the Tories will gain more Leave seats from Labour than they lose Remain seats to the LDsTabman said:
Which Remain seats do they lose?HYUFD said:
On the latest YouGov the Tories would gain 36 Labour mainly Leave seats from Kensington, Dudley North and Newcastle Under Lyme to Darlington, Weaver Vale and Rother Valleyeek said:
Really - which ones?HYUFD said:
Labour Leave seats, of which he will take about 30 to 40 on the latest polling (though he will still hold up to half the Tory seats in Scotland too anyway)El_Capitano said:
Which is not an answer to the question "where does Boris make up those 12 seats which he needs for his majority".HYUFD said:
In the European elections the Tories were 4th in Scotland and the Brexit Party second, only 28% of Scots voted Tory even in 2017 compared to 38% who voted Leave in 2016. Davidson was a strong force leading the anti SNP, pro Union cause but going down an anti Brexit path was not helping the Tories in Scotland eithereek said:So that's a few seats in Scotland last to Boris.
Where does he win them?
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/conservative
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat0 -
The protesters against Brexit have been too polite until now. You need to chuck a few bricks to get noticed, like the Gilet Jaune do.Charles said:
Sounds like most of the aggression is from the virtuous people trying to stop Brexit. Funny how often self-perceived virtue and violence go hand in fistCatMan said:Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight...
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1166783890503143426?s=200 -
I don't care whose fault it is - worrying about who will get the fault has been at the root of many of our problemsCatMan said:
And it would be the UKs fault, not the EU.Charles said:
If there is no alternative that can be developed - and it would be more sensible to approach this in a collaborative manner - then there is No Deal0 -
Goddamit, only Leavers are allowed to subvert the UKs sovereignity!dyedwoolie said:
The EU getting involved will just polarize this even more. Leavers will use it as evidence of the EU subverting the UKs sovereignty.Scott_P said:Probably another irrelevant distraction, but would be supremely funny all the same...
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/11667483918225489920 -
As sure as night follows day Gina Miller gets her lawyers out for the boysScott_P said:0 -
Summary of those Tory attack lines: he would wreck the economy, spend money we haven't got, and has scant regard for democracy.Charles said:
Sounds like most of the aggression is from the virtuous people trying to stop Brexit. Funny how often self-perceived virtue and violence go hand in fistCatMan said:Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight...
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1166783890503143426?s=200 -
Welcome back I Samisam said:If we leave with No Deal, the ERG will think they have played it perfectly. What will the MPs who voted Remain in 2016, pledged to respect the leave victory in their 2017 GE campaigns, then voted three times against Theresa May’s agreement with the EU thereafter console themselves with?
0 -
That being my point. The ludicrous levels of polarization. Everything is an affront to democracy now.viewcode said:
Goddamit, only Leavers are allowed to subvert the UKs sovereignity!dyedwoolie said:
The EU getting involved will just polarize this even more. Leavers will use it as evidence of the EU subverting the UKs sovereignty.Scott_P said:Probably another irrelevant distraction, but would be supremely funny all the same...
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/11667483918225489920 -
I would take chaos with Corbyn right now. He's a relative moderate in this bonkers world we live in. To every problem his answer is to throw a pile of taxpayer cash at it. But at least he doesn't believe in scorched earth as a policy.CatMan said:Deserves another mention
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=20
0 -
We need Greta to come and lecture us on how to proceed0
-
He's as bad. That doesn't make him worse, but it does make voting for him to get rid of Johnson a pointless exercise.kle4 said:
He may not be a sane alternative, but i fail to see how he is that much worse. The Tory fear attacks about him will still work to a degree, but not as much as they may have once.ydoethur said:
The claim was Corbyn 'has done nothing to threaten the union.' Which is demonstrably false.Mexicanpete said:
Còrbyn is a moron of supreme proportions and his backstory is unpleasant as it is ridiculous. Johnson's effort today however may welll have tipped the scale in the opposite direction.ydoethur said:
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!Peter_the_Punter said:
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?Omnium said:
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.not_on_fire said:I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
At least Blair and Cameron waited a few years before embarking on their respective catastrophic legacies. Johnson has managed one of his in around a month.
People do not prove Johnson is a dangerous fool by pretending Corbyn is a sane alternative. They just look like idiots.
The way to prove Johnson is a dangerous fool is to list his actions. Same goes for Corbyn.0 -
In no way is Corbyn a relative moderate and nor are his key supporters.FF43 said:
I would take the chaos of Corbyn right now. He's a relative moderate in this bonkers world we live in. To every problem his answer is to throw a pile of taxpayer cash at it. But at least he doesn't believe in scorched earth as a policy.CatMan said:Deserves another mention
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=200 -
I said relative moderate.Floater said:
In no way is Corbyn a relative moderate and nor are his key supporters.FF43 said:
I would take the chaos of Corbyn right now. He's a relative moderate in this bonkers world we live in. To every problem his answer is to throw a pile of taxpayer cash at it. But at least he doesn't believe in scorched earth as a policy.CatMan said:Deserves another mention
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=200 -
Could they expel us from the EU without a deal.....?!Scott_P said:Probably another irrelevant distraction, but would be supremely funny all the same...
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/11667483918225489920 -
Where does the money come from?dyedwoolie said:
As sure as night follows day Gina Miller gets her lawyers out for the boysScott_P said:0 -
You a fan of violence if it suits your ends then Foxy?Foxy said:
The protesters against Brexit have been too polite until now. You need to chuck a few bricks to get noticed, like the Gilet Jaune do.Charles said:
Sounds like most of the aggression is from the virtuous people trying to stop Brexit. Funny how often self-perceived virtue and violence go hand in fistCatMan said:Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight...
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1166783890503143426?s=200 -
There is also no way a PM Corbyn would have a free hand to pursue his more extreme goals.Floater said:
In no way is Corbyn a relative moderate and nor are his key supporters.FF43 said:
I would take the chaos of Corbyn right now. He's a relative moderate in this bonkers world we live in. To every problem his answer is to throw a pile of taxpayer cash at it. But at least he doesn't believe in scorched earth as a policy.CatMan said:Deserves another mention
https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/595112367358406656?s=200 -
Everybody seems to be really fraught and upset. Would you like something calming and pleasant? Oh, all right then. You've been good. Here you are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAGVQLHvwOY
0 -
It isn't a plan anymore. The Queen has already signed the document.Scott_P said:0 -
Nearly 900,000 is nine times more people than voted for johnson and that's in half a dayAndyJS said:0 -
oh do tell.SandyRentool said:
There is an alternative - Labour Brexit. However 2 Tory PMs have been too pig-headed to accept this.Charles said:
Parliament has repeated voted the WA including the backstop downegg said:
It’s up to Britain to provide a solution. Where’s that alternative backstop Boris?dixiedean said:
Where it has always been.egg said:
Where is that backstop alternative Boris?Benpointer said:
Welcome to PB Mr Egg.egg said:
Lets not rule out this as clever, Trumpesque, base mobilising smoke screen. Nothing more. There’s only one action top of Boris to do list, whats the alternate plan for the backstop.
The backstop is there to avoid a hard border across Ireland when UK and EU are operating different customs regimes. The hard border not only breaks treaties signed up to by the UK government, in practice it will become focal for protest, likely end up with British troops manning it. The previous PMs negotiation came up with this backstop, did not come up with an alternative even in face of mortal destruction. Boris governments official policy is not we don’t like the backstop so no backstop, the only honest policy or realistic negotiation is an alternative plan to be agreed with EU replacing proposed backstop, something Boris with customary oomph agreed to have settled in just 30 days last week, accepting it was up to Britain to provide a solution, and said he was "more than happy" with the "blistering timetable" Merkel had set out.
So Boris, the EU heads of state and negotiators, the British people, the whole world is waiting to hear your plan for alternative backstop, your timetable is ticking down.
If the opposition parties are smart they shouldn’t allow themselves to be distracted, this is the line they should keep the pressure up with. “why are you prevaricating day after day and chucking out Trumpesque chaff?” Where’s your backstop alternative?
Your point is a good one... where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Don’t let him get away with Trump style distractions.
Where is that backstop alternative Boris? Should be the only question in town.
So Boris has told the EU it is unacceptable
If there is no alternative that can be developed - and it would be more sensible to approach this in a collaborative manner - then there is No Deal
This is that magical brexit they are going to campaign against in a referendum is it?
God give me strength.0 -
Russian collusion narrative needs inserting here, it's a go to these daysFloater said:
Where does the money come from?dyedwoolie said:
As sure as night follows day Gina Miller gets her lawyers out for the boysScott_P said:0 -
They don't need to, they just need to refuse any extension even if we ask for one.Freggles said:
Could they expel us from the EU without a deal.....?!Scott_P said:Probably another irrelevant distraction, but would be supremely funny all the same...
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/11667483918225489920 -
He wasn’t removed ... he was promoted 😂ydoethur said:
If Halifax had resigned over Churchill's refusal to talk, the likelihood is Churchill's government would have collapsed. But goodness only knows who or what would have replaced it under those circumstances. Anderson, perhaps, with a mandate for negotiations. Or a General Election - but how would you hold one? But in the end Halifax did not resign, although to prevent any repeat performance he was removed at the earliest possible moment seven months later.OldKingCole said:
AIUI had Chamberlain or Halifax started peace talks with the Germans many at least of the then Tory MP’s would have backed them. Possibly, given the support of the Communists and one or two of the Labour members, enough.ydoethur said:
And Churchill was not Tory party leader when he took his most radical action - refusing peace talks with Germany in summer 1940.stodge said:
I would argue both Asquith and Attlee were radicals who challenged establishment thinking as was Wilson in the social field who challenged traditional views on abortion, homosexuality and the abolition of capital punishment.HYUFD said:
'Slow, steady and responsible' is certainly not how you would describe Tory leaders like Salisbury or Churchill or Thatcher, when the country has needed radical action and a tough leader who will take on establishment thinking the Tories have delivered it0 -
I still think highly of John Major!Foxy said:
A close friend worked with John Major at the Treasury. He was popular with the staff, mostly because of his innate modesty and down to earth nature. He would lunch in the canteen with the secretaries for example. This was a sharp contrast to the arrogance of most Tory ministers of the time. As such the staff were very willing to put in an effort for John.The_Taxman said:
I was always shocked to see stories about John Major in the 1990s, keeping civil servants at work until 10 or 11 at night. He didn't physically keep them there but they must have felt compelled to serve until someone put it to Major it was not fair on the staff!NickPalmer said:
I have a couple of jobs in addition to being on the Council executive, and my daytime employer does give me a few hours a week for council meetings which I make up at other times. The LibDem deputy leader has a full-time job too, as does the Green leaader. So it can be done, if it's your main hobby. But all the other Exec members are retired, and mostly sprightly people in their 70s. The problem is that we can't really ask the Council officers to keep coming to evening meetings.stodge said:
As an example, I work a 40 hour week as do many people, How would I find the time to be a local Councillor? County Councillors are nearly always either retired men or women or people with very understanding employers. The notion of talking time from work to serve on a council is just not recognised.
The same friend has more recently worked with Boris. Opinion unprintable! He was (and is) a man of the people and it probably goes a long way to explaining his achieving over 14 million votes in a GE for a single party in 1992. I have seen the former PM around Westminster a few times and the time that stands out in memory the most was when David Trimble had been doing media with him and Trimble's face as he looked at me as Major came into view was beaming. I thought Trimble was good as well but I wish he did not support Brexit as his co-achievement of Peace maybe eviscerated by No Deal Brexit or any Brexit.... 0 -
Foxy appears to be saying that lobbing bricks to stop brexit is fine with him.Charles said:
Sounds like most of the aggression is from the virtuous people trying to stop Brexit. Funny how often self-perceived virtue and violence go hand in fistCatMan said:Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight...
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1166783890503143426?s=20
0 -
It will come in spades once the true horror of No Deal Brexit hits 'the left behind'.Foxy said:
The protesters against Brexit have been too polite until now. You need to chuck a few bricks to get noticed, like the Gilet Jaune do.Charles said:
Sounds like most of the aggression is from the virtuous people trying to stop Brexit. Funny how often self-perceived virtue and violence go hand in fistCatMan said:Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight...
https://twitter.com/SebastianEPayne/status/1166783890503143426?s=20
0 -
NEW THREAD
0 -
-
She'd better come back from New York on Elton's private jet.dyedwoolie said:We need Greta to come and lecture us on how to proceed
0 -
-
Brexit supporters on here might want to note just how quickly the remainers were able to put together demonstrations up and down the country with very little notice. There is plenty of fight in the dog.
0 -
Things are definitely coming to a head!Scott_P said:
0 -
Indeed.AndyJS said:
It isn't a plan anymore. The Queen has already signed the document.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1166711208700981249
Incidentally, one of the last times I remember that three PCs used Orders in Council to such effect was the Falklands, when the three PCs were Thatcher, Nott and Tebbit. Can anybody remember another?0 -
Absolutely true..AlastairMeeks said:
He wants the hornets buzzing. The aim is to hustle his opponents into a vote of no confidence.Richard_Tyndall said:What I don't understand in all of this us why Boris has kicked this hornets nest for the sake of 4 extra days without Parliament sitting.
There are some people on twitter trying to compare today to 9/11...
Bonkers0 -
Flash mob?FrancisUrquhart said:
Why protest in person when you can click an online petition a few times.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Dont they see this just plays into his hands?Scott_P said:Probably another irrelevant distraction, but would be supremely funny all the same...
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/11667483918225489920 -
The ship has sailed. If May had compromised with Jezza 6 months ago Brexit would have been delivered on time and we would be back to normal politics.Floater said:
oh do tell.SandyRentool said:
There is an alternative - Labour Brexit. However 2 Tory PMs have been too pig-headed to accept this.Charles said:
Parliament has repeated voted the WA including the backstop downegg said:
It’s up to Britain to provide a solution. Where’s that alternative backstop Boris?dixiedean said:
Where it has always been.egg said:
Where is that backstop alternative Boris?Benpointer said:
Welcome to PB Mr Egg.egg said:
Lets not rule out this as clever, Trumpesque, base mobilising smoke screen. Nothing more. There’s only one action top of Boris to do list, whats the alternate plan for the backstop.
The backstop is there to avoid a hard border across Ireland when UK and EU are operating different customs regimes. The hard border not only breaks treaties signed up to by the UK government, in practice it will become focal for protest, likely end up with British troops manning it. The previous PMs negotiation came up with this backstop, did not come up with an alternative even in face of mortal destruction. Boris governments official policy is not we don’t like the backstop so no backstop, the only honest policy or realistic negotiation is an alternative plan to be agreed with EU replacing proposed backstop, something Boris with customary oomph agreed to have settled in just 30 days last week, accepting it was up to Britain to provide a solution, and said he was "more than happy" with the "blistering timetable" Merkel had set out.
So Boris, the EU heads of state and negotiators, the British people, the whole world is waiting to hear your plan for alternative backstop, your timetable is ticking down.
If the opposition parties are smart they shouldn’t allow themselves to be distracted, this is the line they should keep the pressure up with. “why are you prevaricating day after day and chucking out Trumpesque chaff?” Where’s your backstop alternative?
Your point is a good one... where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Don’t let him get away with Trump style distractions.
Where is that backstop alternative Boris? Should be the only question in town.
So Boris has told the EU it is unacceptable
If there is no alternative that can be developed - and it would be more sensible to approach this in a collaborative manner - then there is No Deal
This is that magical brexit they are going to campaign against in a referendum is it?
God give me strength.0 -
At a trivial anecdote level, I remember his holding a door open for me for some time as I struggled with various piles of papers as a very green MP. He and Ruth Kelly stood out in my mind in the early days for their exceptional courtesy.The_Taxman said:
I still think highly of John Major! He was (and is) a man of the people and it probably goes a long way to explaining his achieving over 14 million votes in a GE for a single party in 1992. 0
