All the indignant remoaner Tories will have to think carefully what they wish for. If we have a GE, which is frankly more important a) remaining part of the EU and risking PM Corbyn taxing them out of existence, seeing the value of their houses collapse and their pension funds evaporate as the stock market collapses or b) it becoming slightly inconvenient to go on their 4 European holidays each year by having to queue for a wee while at the airport passport control as we used to have to do automatically until a few years ago.
Vote LibDem get Corbyn, vote Green get Corbyn, vote SNP get Corbyn. The only way to avoid getting Corbyn is to vote Tory.
yawn. Some of us "remoaners" (yawn again) have principles. I won't vote for a Marxist, but I won't vote for a bunch of nutters and crypto-fascists either. If Corbyn does get near power it will be because of people who thought throwing away the Conservative Party USPs of sensible economics and sensible government is worth it for an emotional desire to turn Britain back to a 1950s utopia that never existed. On day the grown ups will take the Conservative Party back again. Until then it is vote LD and proud!
You were obviously more of a 19th century Liberal than a Tory anyway, if Corbyn gets into power it will be because the Tories do not deliver Brexit and split the rightwing vote with the Brexit Party, not because they actually deliver the Brexit the British People voted for
Bang on cue the 'you don't back the current policy 100% so were never really a Tory' approach.
One thing this has done is flush out liberals who were never really Tories or conservple
Perhaps, but I always thought support for monarchy, the UK and stable finances was part of the Tory brand and apparently that is not true either.
Respecting British sovereignty and keeping control of our borders is also part of the Tory brand as is respecting democratic votes, the Tories are not just a neoliberal party
The tories are just a front for hedge fund managers and tax avoiders, just admit it it will free you!
Utterly wrong, 67% of London finance workers in the City of London voted Remain, 62% of working class C2s, 62% of working class DEs voted Leave.
The Tories under Boris are standing up for the working class against the diehard Remainer establishment, winning working class patriots much as Salisbury and Thatcher did
Just to stand back for 30 seconds. What have today’s events done to embed Brexit as something that the country can unite around?
In the long term this looks like a strategic disaster for Leave. It ensures, if it were not already sure, that Brexit will never be embedded. It will become part of the country’s folk myth that Leavers are the enemies of Parliamentary democracy.
The failure to face up to the press is also notable. Saw Ciaran Jenkins on C4 News door-stopping some Scottish Tory non-entity earlier; reminiscent of Watchdog on the tail of a small-time rogue trader. The optics are not good.
In the European elections the Tories were 4th in Scotland and the Brexit Party second, only 28% of Scots voted Tory even in 2017 compared to 38% who voted Leave in 2016. Davidson was a strong force leading the anti SNP, pro Union cause but going down an anti Brexit path was not helping the Tories in Scotland either
Which is not an answer to the question "where does Boris make up those 12 seats which he needs for his majority".
Labour Leave seats, of which he will take about 30 to 40 on the latest polling (though he will still hold up to half the Tory seats in Scotland too anyway)
Really - which ones?
On the latest YouGov the Tories would gain 36 Labour mainly Leave seats from Kensington, Dudley North and Newcastle Under Lyme to Darlington, Weaver Vale and Rother Valley
St Albans, Richmond Park and Cheltenham, Lewes and Winchester etc to the LDs but on UNS based on YouGov the Tories will gain more Leave seats from Labour than they lose Remain seats to the LDs
I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
Còrbyn is a moron of supreme proportions and his backstory is unpleasant as it is ridiculous. Johnson's effort today however may welll have tipped the scale in the opposite direction.
At least Blair and Cameron waited a few years before embarking on their respective catastrophic legacies. Johnson has managed one of his in around a month.
All the indignant remoaner Tories will have to think carefully what they wish for. If we have a GE, which is frankly more important a) remaining part of the EU and risking PM Corbyn taxing them out of existence, seeing the value of their houses collapse and their pension funds evaporate as the stock market collapses or b) it becoming
Vote LibDem get Corbyn, vote Green get Corbyn, vote SNP get Corbyn. The only way to avoid getting Corbyn is to vote Tory.
yawn. Some of us "remoaners" (yawn again) have principles. I won't vote for a Marxist, but I won't vote for a bunch of nutters and crypto-fascists either. If Corbyn does get near power it will be because of people who thought throwing away the Conservative Party USPs of sensible economics and sensible government is worth it for an emotional desire to turn Britain back to a 1950s utopia that never existed. On day the grown ups will take the Conservative Party back again. Until then it is vote LD and proud!
You were obviously more of a 19th century Liberal
Bang on cue the 'you don't back the current policy 100% so were never really a Tory' approach.
One thing this has done is flush out liberals who were never really Tories or conservple
Perhaps, but I always thought support for monarchy, the UK and stable finances was part of the Tory brand and apparently that is not true either.
Respecting British sovereignty and keeping control of our borders is also part of the Tory brand as is respecting democratic votes, the Tories are not just a neoliberal party
The tories are just a front for hedge fund managers and tax avoiders, just admit it it will free you!
Utterly wrong, 67% of London finance workers in the City of London voted Remain, 62% of working class C2s, 62% of working class DEs voted Leave.
The Tories under Boris are standing up for the working class against the diehard Remainer establishment, winning working class patriots much as Salisbury and Thatcher did
So what will they do for the working class that is different from any other Tory government that has shafted them throughout history? There are no more council houses to give away to buy votes so tell us all what financial benefit the working class are going to get out of a Tory government.
As an example, I work a 40 hour week as do many people, How would I find the time to be a local Councillor? County Councillors are nearly always either retired men or women or people with very understanding employers. The notion of talking time from work to serve on a council is just not recognised.
I have a couple of jobs in addition to being on the Council executive, and my daytime employer does give me a few hours a week for council meetings which I make up at other times. The LibDem deputy leader has a full-time job too, as does the Green leaader. So it can be done, if it's your main hobby. But all the other Exec members are retired, and mostly sprightly people in their 70s. The problem is that we can't really ask the Council officers to keep coming to evening meetings.
I was always shocked to see stories about John Major in the 1990s, keeping civil servants at work until 10 or 11 at night. He didn't physically keep them there but they must have felt compelled to serve until someone put it to Major it was not fair on the staff!
I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
There's no threat to the Union bigger than No Deal Brexit.
Even now only 46% of Scots including Don't Knows back independence even on the latest Ashcroft poll.
Who would you say was the most effective defender of the union in Scottish politics, HYUFD?
Arlene Foster is certainly the most devoted but in Scotland the Unionist vote is now made up of pro Brexit Unionist Leavers who can vote Tory and anti Brexit Unionist Remainers who can vote LD, neither need to vote SNP
I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
There's no threat to the Union bigger than No Deal Brexit.
Even now only 46% of Scots including Don't Knows back independence even on the latest Ashcroft poll.
Who would you say was the most effective defender of the union in Scottish politics, HYUFD?
Arlene Foster is certainly the most devoted but in Scotland the Unionist vote is now made up of pro Brexit Unionist Leavers who can vote Tory and anti Brexit Unionist Remainers who can vote LD, neither need to vote SNP
The failure to face up to the press is also notable. Saw Ciaran Jenkins on C4 News door-stopping some Scottish Tory non-entity earlier; reminiscent of Watchdog on the tail of a small-time rogue trader. The optics are not good.
Yup, it all looks very shifty, the way they're running with this lie about it being nothing to do with brexit that's so obvious that even @HYUFD can't stick to the line.
Boris being shady and dishonest is generally assumed by political nerds, but I'm not sure it's yet in the price for Joe Public.
All the indignant remoaner Tories will have to think carefully what they wish for. If we have a GE, which is frankly more important a) remaining part of the EU and risking PM Corbyn taxing them out of existence, seeing the value of their houses collapse and their pension funds evaporate as the stock market collapses or b) it becoming
Vote LibDem get Corbyn, vote Green get Corbyn, vote SNP get Corbyn. The only way to avoid getting Corbyn is to vote Tory.
yawn. Some of us "remoaners" (yawn again) have principles. I won't vote for a Marxist, but I won't vote for a bunch of nutters and crypto-fascists either. If Corbyn does get near power it will b proud!
You were obviously more of a 19th century Liberal
Bang on cue the 'you don't back the current policy 100% so were never really a Tory' approach.
One thing this has done is flush out liberals who were never really Tories or conservple
Perhaps, but I always thought support for monarchy, the UK and stable finances was part of the Tory brand and apparently that is not true either.
Respecting British sovereignty ty
The tories are just a front for hedge fund managers and tax avoiders, just admit it it will free you!
Utterly wrong, 67% of London finance workers in the City of London voted Remain, 62% of working class C2s, 62% of working class DEs voted Leave.
The Tories under Boris are standing up for the working class against the diehard Remainer establishment, winning working class patriots much as Salisbury and Thatcher did
So what will they do for the working class that is different from any other Tory government that has shafted them throughout history? There are no more council houses to give away to buy votes so tell us all what financial benefit the working class are going to get out of a Tory government.
They will get free movement replaced with a points system, reducing low skilled migration from the EU as the working class mainly voted for, as well as regained sovereignty, more money for the NHS and police, the higher minimum wage the Tories introduced and the taking of the lowest earners out of tax the Tories did too
I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?
I believe he declined a few invitations didn't he, and has some anti-monarchy leanings. It was a joke alluding to that.
I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
There's no threat to the Union bigger than No Deal Brexit.
Even now only 46% of Scots including Don't Knows back independence even on the latest Ashcroft poll.
Who would you say was the most effective defender of the union in Scottish politics, HYUFD?
Arlene Foster is certainly the most devoted but in Scotland the Unionist vote is now made up of pro Brexit Unionist Leavers who can vote Tory and anti Brexit Unionist Remainers who can vote LD, neither need to vote SNP
Foster is doing her bit to help destroy it.
She is standing up for the majority of Northern Ireland Protestant and Unionist voters who all the polls show oppose the backstop and a border in the Irish Sea
I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
There's no threat to the Union bigger than No Deal Brexit.
Even now only 46% of Scots including Don't Knows back independence even on the latest Ashcroft poll.
Who would you say was the most effective defender of the union in Scottish politics, HYUFD?
Arlene Foster is certainly the most devoted but in Scotland the Unionist vote is now made up of pro Brexit Unionist Leavers who can vote Tory and anti Brexit Unionist Remainers who can vote LD, neither need to vote SNP
So the anti-Brexit Unionist Remainers can’t vote for the party currently still headed by the most prominent unionist politician?
By the way, anyone not following the anti-prorogation petition is missing valuable betting information for the next election.
The map of the constituency hot spots shows the SE Corner of England looking like a screaming face (Munsch Passim) . Oxford/shire and Cambridge/shire as the eyes, St Albans as the nose, and London as the mouth.
The failure to face up to the press is also notable. Saw Ciaran Jenkins on C4 News door-stopping some Scottish Tory non-entity earlier; reminiscent of Watchdog on the tail of a small-time rogue trader. The optics are not good.
Yup, it all looks very shifty, the way they're running with this lie about it being nothing to do with brexit that's so obvious that even @HYUFD can't stick to the line.
Boris being shady and dishonest is generally assumed by political nerds, but I'm not sure it's yet in the price for Joe Public.
It is. My mum, lifelong Conservative and Leave voter but not particularly politically-minded, loathes him. What it will do is remind people of what they already knew.
Seems a bit over the top. I think it is a stupid and outrageous move politically, but on the face of it it seems within the law of this country (court case pending, granted).
This seems to be interrupting their enemy while he is making a mistake. It will just cause Brexiteers to find a half dozen worst examples the EU didn't investigate.
I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
Còrbyn is a moron of supreme proportions and his backstory is unpleasant as it is ridiculous. Johnson's effort today however may welll have tipped the scale in the opposite direction.
At least Blair and Cameron waited a few years before embarking on their respective catastrophic legacies. Johnson has managed one of his in around a month.
The claim was Corbyn 'has done nothing to threaten the union.' Which is demonstrably false.
People do not prove Johnson is a dangerous fool by pretending Corbyn is a sane alternative. They just look like idiots.
The way to prove Johnson is a dangerous fool is to list his actions. Same goes for Corbyn.
The failure to face up to the press is also notable. Saw Ciaran Jenkins on C4 News door-stopping some Scottish Tory non-entity earlier; reminiscent of Watchdog on the tail of a small-time rogue trader. The optics are not good.
Yup, it all looks very shifty, the way they're running with this lie about it being nothing to do with brexit that's so obvious that even @HYUFD can't stick to the line.
Boris being shady and dishonest is generally assumed by political nerds, but I'm not sure it's yet in the price for Joe Public.
It is. My mum, lifelong Conservative and Leave voter but not particularly politically-minded, loathes him.
One gobsmacking feature of living in what was once pure Tufton-Bufton Cotswold chocolate box territory is the near-universal loathing of Johnson among neighbours who once regarded voting anything but Tory as a crime against nature.
That and the complete collapse of the Tory vote even before Tories in less favoured parts of Britain voted the fat spiv into office.
27% of Tories, said YouGov today, regarded his prorogation as "unacceptable". How many lost, once-safe, seats does that translate into?
Lets not rule out this as clever, Trumpesque, base mobilising smoke screen. Nothing more. There’s only one action top of Boris to do list, whats the alternate plan for the backstop. The backstop is there to avoid a hard border across Ireland when UK and EU are operating different customs regimes. The hard border not only breaks treaties signed up to by the UK government, in practice it will become focal for protest, likely end up with British troops manning it. The previous PMs negotiation came up with this backstop, did not come up with an alternative even in face of mortal destruction. Boris governments official policy is not we don’t like the backstop so no backstop, the only honest policy or realistic negotiation is an alternative plan to be agreed with EU replacing proposed backstop, something Boris with customary oomph agreed to have settled in just 30 days last week, accepting it was up to Britain to provide a solution, and said he was "more than happy" with the "blistering timetable" Merkel had set out. So Boris, the EU heads of state and negotiators, the British people, the whole world is waiting to hear your plan for alternative backstop, your timetable is ticking down. If the opposition parties are smart they shouldn’t allow themselves to be distracted, this is the line they should keep the pressure up with. “why are you prevaricating day after day and chucking out Trumpesque chaff?” Where’s your backstop alternative?
Welcome to PB Mr Egg.
Your point is a good one... where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Don’t let him get away with Trump style distractions.
Where is that backstop alternative Boris? Should be the only question in town.
Where it has always been.
It’s up to Britain to provide a solution. Where’s that alternative backstop Boris?
Parliament has repeated voted the WA including the backstop down
So Boris has told the EU it is unacceptable
If there is no alternative that can be developed - and it would be more sensible to approach this in a collaborative manner - then there is No Deal
On non-Brexit matters, Trump's latest round of rantings today has me thinking. I think Mike Pence might be underrated as next President. Imagine Trump loses in 2020 and goes completely nuts in his lame duck period. Refusing to leave office, pardons to all sorts of cronies, a whole bunch of stuff to enrich and protect himself. So far the Republicans have kneeled to him as the leader of the party, but once he is a lost cause, they will be desperate to get rid of him. There has to be a pretty big chance of an Article 25 removal from his cabinet.
He's bloody awful but at least he has principles and he's removable.
I refer the honourable gentleman to Weimar 1933.
Ffs get a grip.
"Hitler's first act as chancellor was to ask Hindenburg to dissolve the Reichstag, so that the Nazis .... could win an outright majority to pass the Enabling Act "
In the European elections the Tories were 4th in Scotland and the Brexit Party second, only 28% of Scots voted Tory even in 2017 compared to 38% who voted Leave in 2016. Davidson was a strong force leading the anti SNP, pro Union cause but going down an anti Brexit path was not helping the Tories in Scotland either
Which is not an answer to the question "where does Boris make up those 12 seats which he needs for his majority".
Labour Leave seats, of which he will take about 30 to 40 on the latest polling (though he will still hold up to half the Tory seats in Scotland too anyway)
Really - which ones?
On the latest YouGov the Tories would gain 36 Labour mainly Leave seats from Kensington, Dudley North and Newcastle Under Lyme to Darlington, Weaver Vale and Rother Valley
St Albans, Richmond Park and Cheltenham, Lewes and Winchester etc to the LDs but on UNS based on YouGov the Tories will gain more Leave seats from Labour than they lose Remain seats to the LDs
Lets not rule out this as clever, Trumpesque, base mobilising smoke screen. Nothing more. There’s only one action top of Boris to do list, whats the alternate plan for the backstop. The backstop is there to avoid a hard border across Ireland when UK and EU are operating different customs regimes. The hard border not only breaks treaties signed up to by the UK government, in practice it will become focal for protest, likely end up with British troops manning it. The previous PMs negotiation came up with this backstop, did not come up with an alternative even in face of mortal destruction. Boris governments official policy is not we don’t like the backstop so no backstop, the only honest policy or realistic negotiation is an alternative plan to be agreed with EU replacing proposed backstop, something Boris with customary oomph agreed to have settled in just 30 days last week, accepting it was up to Britain to provide a solution, and said he was "more than happy" with the "blistering timetable" Merkel had set out. So Boris, the EU heads of state and negotiators, the British people, the whole world is waiting to hear your plan for alternative backstop, your timetable is ticking down. If the opposition parties are smart they shouldn’t allow themselves to be distracted, this is the line they should keep the pressure up with. “why are you prevaricating day after day and chucking out Trumpesque chaff?” Where’s your backstop alternative?
Welcome to PB Mr Egg.
Your point is a good one... where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Don’t let him get away with Trump style distractions.
Where is that backstop alternative Boris? Should be the only question in town.
Where it has always been.
It’s up to Britain to provide a solution. Where’s that alternative backstop Boris?
Parliament has repeated voted the WA including the backstop down
So Boris has told the EU it is unacceptable
If there is no alternative that can be developed - and it would be more sensible to approach this in a collaborative manner - then there is No Deal
Given the lack of collaboration - no deal looks a certainty.
In the European elections the Tories were 4th in Scotland and the Brexit Party second, only 28% of Scots voted Tory even in 2017 compared to 38% who voted Leave in 2016. Davidson was a strong force leading the anti SNP, pro Union cause but going down an anti Brexit path was not helping the Tories in Scotland either
Which is not an answer to the question "where does Boris make up those 12 seats which he needs for his majority".
Labour Leave seats, of which he will take about 30 to 40 on the latest polling (though he will still hold up to half the Tory seats in Scotland too anyway)
Really - which ones?
On the latest YouGov the Tories would gain 36 Labour mainly Leave seats from Kensington, Dudley North and Newcastle Under Lyme to Darlington, Weaver Vale and Rother Valley
St Albans, Richmond Park and Cheltenham, Lewes and Winchester etc to the LDs but on UNS based on YouGov the Tories will gain more Leave seats from Labour than they lose Remain seats to the LDs
He's bloody awful but at least he has principles and he's removable.
I refer the honourable gentleman to Weimar 1933.
Yes but....he's nearly 100. He won't be there for more than a year or two. The Lib Dems would be my preference but unless the tactical voters are more precise than they've been in the past it's too big a risk. In order of preference. 1234567.....Keeping Johnson and his proto fascists out. 8. Keeping Corbyn out. There are no good choices that are possible.
As an example, I work a 40 hour week as do many people, How would I find the time to be a local Councillor? County Councillors are nearly always either retired men or women or people with very understanding employers. The notion of talking time from work to serve on a council is just not recognised.
I have a couple of jobs in addition to being on the Council executive, and my daytime employer does give me a few hours a week for council meetings which I make up at other times. The LibDem deputy leader has a full-time job too, as does the Green leaader. So it can be done, if it's your main hobby. But all the other Exec members are retired, and mostly sprightly people in their 70s. The problem is that we can't really ask the Council officers to keep coming to evening meetings.
I was always shocked to see stories about John Major in the 1990s, keeping civil servants at work until 10 or 11 at night. He didn't physically keep them there but they must have felt compelled to serve until someone put it to Major it was not fair on the staff!
A close friend worked with John Major at the Treasury. He was popular with the staff, mostly because of his innate modesty and down to earth nature. He would lunch in the canteen with the secretaries for example. This was a sharp contrast to the arrogance of most Tory ministers of the time. As such the staff were very willing to put in an effort for John.
The same friend has more recently worked with Boris. Opinion unprintable!
I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
Còrbyn is a moron of supreme proportions and his backstory is unpleasant as it is ridiculous. Johnson's effort today however may welll have tipped the scale in the opposite direction.
At least Blair and Cameron waited a few years before embarking on their respective catastrophic legacies. Johnson has managed one of his in around a month.
The claim was Corbyn 'has done nothing to threaten the union.' Which is demonstrably false.
People do not prove Johnson is a dangerous fool by pretending Corbyn is a sane alternative. They just look like idiots.
The way to prove Johnson is a dangerous fool is to list his actions. Same goes for Corbyn.
He may not be a sane alternative, but i fail to see how he is that much worse. The Tory fear attacks about him will still work to a degree, but not as much as they may have once.
Sounds like most of the aggression is from the virtuous people trying to stop Brexit. Funny how often self-perceived virtue and violence go hand in fist
I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
Còrbyn is a moron of supreme proportions and his backstory is unpleasant as it is ridiculous. Johnson's effort today however may welll have tipped the scale in the opposite direction.
At least Blair and Cameron waited a few years before embarking on their respective catastrophic legacies. Johnson has managed one of his in around a month.
The claim was Corbyn 'has done nothing to threaten the union.' Which is demonstrably false.
People do not prove Johnson is a dangerous fool by pretending Corbyn is a sane alternative. They just look like idiots.
The way to prove Johnson is a dangerous fool is to list his actions. Same goes for Corbyn.
Corbyn is a dangerous fool. Johnson on the other hand is no fool. He is however extremely wilfully dangerous.
Lets not rule out this as clever, Trumpesque, base mobilising smoke screen. Nothing more. There’s only one action top of Boris to do list, whats the alternate plan for the backstop. The backstop is there to avoid a hard border across Ireland when UK and EU are operating different customs regimes. The hard border not only breaks treaties signed up to by the UK government, in practice it will become focal for protest, likely end up with British troops manning it. The previous PMs negotiation came up with this backstop, did not come up with an alternative even in face of mortal destruction. Boris governments official policy is not we don’t like the backstop so no backstop, the only honest policy or realistic negotiation is an alternative plan to be agreed with EU replacing proposed backstop, something Boris with customary oomph agreed to have settled in just 30 days last week, accepting it was up to Britain to provide a solution, and said he was "more than happy" with the "blistering timetable" Merkel had set out. So Boris, the EU heads of state and negotiators, the British people, the whole world is waiting to hear your plan for alternative backstop, your timetable is ticking down. If the opposition parties are smart they shouldn’t allow themselves to be distracted, this is the line they should keep the pressure up with. “why are you prevaricating day after day and chucking out Trumpesque chaff?” Where’s your backstop alternative?
Welcome to PB Mr Egg.
Your point is a good one... where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Don’t let him get away with Trump style distractions.
Where is that backstop alternative Boris? Should be the only question in town.
Where it has always been.
It’s up to Britain to provide a solution. Where’s that alternative backstop Boris?
Parliament has repeated voted the WA including the backstop down
So Boris has told the EU it is unacceptable
If there is no alternative that can be developed - and it would be more sensible to approach this in a collaborative manner - then there is No Deal
There is an alternative - Labour Brexit. However 2 Tory PMs have been too pig-headed to accept this.
In the European elections the Tories were 4th in Scotland and the Brexit Party second, only 28% of Scots voted Tory even in 2017 compared to 38% who voted Leave in 2016. Davidson was a strong force leading the anti SNP, pro Union cause but going down an anti Brexit path was not helping the Tories in Scotland either
Which is not an answer to the question "where does Boris make up those 12 seats which he needs for his majority".
Labour Leave seats, of which he will take about 30 to 40 on the latest polling (though he will still hold up to half the Tory seats in Scotland too anyway)
Really - which ones?
On the latest YouGov the Tories would gain 36 Labour mainly Leave seats from Kensington, Dudley North and Newcastle Under Lyme to Darlington, Weaver Vale and Rother Valley
St Albans, Richmond Park and Cheltenham, Lewes and Winchester etc to the LDs but on UNS based on YouGov the Tories will gain more Leave seats from Labour than they lose Remain seats to the LDs
I think Labour will have a better ground game than the Tories next time out. That might make a big difference in those Labour leave seats, given that Brexit is a much less salient issue for Labour inclined voters.
Sounds like most of the aggression is from the virtuous people trying to stop Brexit. Funny how often self-perceived virtue and violence go hand in fist
The protesters against Brexit have been too polite until now. You need to chuck a few bricks to get noticed, like the Gilet Jaune do.
Sounds like most of the aggression is from the virtuous people trying to stop Brexit. Funny how often self-perceived virtue and violence go hand in fist
Summary of those Tory attack lines: he would wreck the economy, spend money we haven't got, and has scant regard for democracy.
If we leave with No Deal, the ERG will think they have played it perfectly. What will the MPs who voted Remain in 2016, pledged to respect the leave victory in their 2017 GE campaigns, then voted three times against Theresa May’s agreement with the EU thereafter console themselves with?
I would take chaos with Corbyn right now. He's a relative moderate in this bonkers world we live in. To every problem his answer is to throw a pile of taxpayer cash at it. But at least he doesn't believe in scorched earth as a policy.
I suspect Boris was told that the Queen would veto any prorogation that covered 31st October or began before Parliament could pass a VONC, and the dates we have ended up with are a compromise
"lead to understand" surely, and "might" not would.
HMQ's day has been much as any other - accommodating reasonable requests from her subjects and advisers.
I'm sure she'll listen to Corbyn, Swinson, and whoever else she can't avoid meeting and not interfere.
Corbyn's tea might not be the best the Palace has ever made mind you. (The kitchens were too busy)
Why should she be inimical to Corbyn, who has done nothing to threaten the Union, unlike one of her earlier visitors?
Corbyn, the avowed supporter of the IRA, has done nothing to threaten the Union?!!!
I know Johnson may have lost his marbles (if he ever had any) but can we please keep a sense of proportion here?
Còrbyn is a moron of supreme proportions and his backstory is unpleasant as it is ridiculous. Johnson's effort today however may welll have tipped the scale in the opposite direction.
At least Blair and Cameron waited a few years before embarking on their respective catastrophic legacies. Johnson has managed one of his in around a month.
The claim was Corbyn 'has done nothing to threaten the union.' Which is demonstrably false.
People do not prove Johnson is a dangerous fool by pretending Corbyn is a sane alternative. They just look like idiots.
The way to prove Johnson is a dangerous fool is to list his actions. Same goes for Corbyn.
He may not be a sane alternative, but i fail to see how he is that much worse. The Tory fear attacks about him will still work to a degree, but not as much as they may have once.
He's as bad. That doesn't make him worse, but it does make voting for him to get rid of Johnson a pointless exercise.
I would take the chaos of Corbyn right now. He's a relative moderate in this bonkers world we live in. To every problem his answer is to throw a pile of taxpayer cash at it. But at least he doesn't believe in scorched earth as a policy.
In no way is Corbyn a relative moderate and nor are his key supporters.
I would take the chaos of Corbyn right now. He's a relative moderate in this bonkers world we live in. To every problem his answer is to throw a pile of taxpayer cash at it. But at least he doesn't believe in scorched earth as a policy.
In no way is Corbyn a relative moderate and nor are his key supporters.
Sounds like most of the aggression is from the virtuous people trying to stop Brexit. Funny how often self-perceived virtue and violence go hand in fist
The protesters against Brexit have been too polite until now. You need to chuck a few bricks to get noticed, like the Gilet Jaune do.
You a fan of violence if it suits your ends then Foxy?
I would take the chaos of Corbyn right now. He's a relative moderate in this bonkers world we live in. To every problem his answer is to throw a pile of taxpayer cash at it. But at least he doesn't believe in scorched earth as a policy.
In no way is Corbyn a relative moderate and nor are his key supporters.
There is also no way a PM Corbyn would have a free hand to pursue his more extreme goals.
Lets not rule out this as clever, Trumpesque, base mobilising smoke screen. Nothing more. There’s only one action top of Boris to do list, whats the alternate plan for the backstop. The backstop is there to avoid a hard border across Ireland when UK and EU are operating different customs regimes. The hard border not only breaks treaties signed up to by the UK government, in practice it will become focal for protest, likely end up with British troops manning it. The previous PMs negotiation came up with this backstop, did not come up with an alternative even in face of mortal destruction. Boris governments official policy is not we don’t like the backstop so no backstop, the only honest policy or realistic negotiation is an alternative plan to be agreed with EU replacing proposed backstop, something Boris with customary oomph agreed to have settled in just 30 days last week, accepting it was up to Britain to provide a solution, and said he was "more than happy" with the "blistering timetable" Merkel had set out. So Boris, the EU heads of state and negotiators, the British people, the whole world is waiting to hear your plan for alternative backstop, your timetable is ticking down. If the opposition parties are smart they shouldn’t allow themselves to be distracted, this is the line they should keep the pressure up with. “why are you prevaricating day after day and chucking out Trumpesque chaff?” Where’s your backstop alternative?
Welcome to PB Mr Egg.
Your point is a good one... where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Don’t let him get away with Trump style distractions.
Where is that backstop alternative Boris? Should be the only question in town.
Where it has always been.
It’s up to Britain to provide a solution. Where’s that alternative backstop Boris?
Parliament has repeated voted the WA including the backstop down
So Boris has told the EU it is unacceptable
If there is no alternative that can be developed - and it would be more sensible to approach this in a collaborative manner - then there is No Deal
There is an alternative - Labour Brexit. However 2 Tory PMs have been too pig-headed to accept this.
oh do tell.
This is that magical brexit they are going to campaign against in a referendum is it?
'Slow, steady and responsible' is certainly not how you would describe Tory leaders like Salisbury or Churchill or Thatcher, when the country has needed radical action and a tough leader who will take on establishment thinking the Tories have delivered it
I would argue both Asquith and Attlee were radicals who challenged establishment thinking as was Wilson in the social field who challenged traditional views on abortion, homosexuality and the abolition of capital punishment.
And Churchill was not Tory party leader when he took his most radical action - refusing peace talks with Germany in summer 1940.
AIUI had Chamberlain or Halifax started peace talks with the Germans many at least of the then Tory MP’s would have backed them. Possibly, given the support of the Communists and one or two of the Labour members, enough.
If Halifax had resigned over Churchill's refusal to talk, the likelihood is Churchill's government would have collapsed. But goodness only knows who or what would have replaced it under those circumstances. Anderson, perhaps, with a mandate for negotiations. Or a General Election - but how would you hold one? But in the end Halifax did not resign, although to prevent any repeat performance he was removed at the earliest possible moment seven months later.
As an example, I work a 40 hour week as do many people, How would I find the time to be a local Councillor? County Councillors are nearly always either retired men or women or people with very understanding employers. The notion of talking time from work to serve on a council is just not recognised.
I have a couple of jobs in addition to being on the Council executive, and my daytime employer does give me a few hours a week for council meetings which I make up at other times. The LibDem deputy leader has a full-time job too, as does the Green leaader. So it can be done, if it's your main hobby. But all the other Exec members are retired, and mostly sprightly people in their 70s. The problem is that we can't really ask the Council officers to keep coming to evening meetings.
I was always shocked to see stories about John Major in the 1990s, keeping civil servants at work until 10 or 11 at night. He didn't physically keep them there but they must have felt compelled to serve until someone put it to Major it was not fair on the staff!
A close friend worked with John Major at the Treasury. He was popular with the staff, mostly because of his innate modesty and down to earth nature. He would lunch in the canteen with the secretaries for example. This was a sharp contrast to the arrogance of most Tory ministers of the time. As such the staff were very willing to put in an effort for John.
The same friend has more recently worked with Boris. Opinion unprintable!
I still think highly of John Major! He was (and is) a man of the people and it probably goes a long way to explaining his achieving over 14 million votes in a GE for a single party in 1992. I have seen the former PM around Westminster a few times and the time that stands out in memory the most was when David Trimble had been doing media with him and Trimble's face as he looked at me as Major came into view was beaming. I thought Trimble was good as well but I wish he did not support Brexit as his co-achievement of Peace maybe eviscerated by No Deal Brexit or any Brexit....
Sounds like most of the aggression is from the virtuous people trying to stop Brexit. Funny how often self-perceived virtue and violence go hand in fist
Foxy appears to be saying that lobbing bricks to stop brexit is fine with him.
Sounds like most of the aggression is from the virtuous people trying to stop Brexit. Funny how often self-perceived virtue and violence go hand in fist
The protesters against Brexit have been too polite until now. You need to chuck a few bricks to get noticed, like the Gilet Jaune do.
It will come in spades once the true horror of No Deal Brexit hits 'the left behind'.
Brexit supporters on here might want to note just how quickly the remainers were able to put together demonstrations up and down the country with very little notice. There is plenty of fight in the dog.
Incidentally, one of the last times I remember that three PCs used Orders in Council to such effect was the Falklands, when the three PCs were Thatcher, Nott and Tebbit. Can anybody remember another?
Lets not rule out this as clever, Trumpesque, base mobilising smoke screen. Nothing more. There’s only one action top of Boris to do list, whats the alternate plan for the backstop. The backstop is there to avoid a hard border across Ireland when UK and EU are operating different customs regimes. The hard border not only breaks treaties signed up to by the UK government, in practice it will become focal for protest, likely end up with British troops manning it. The previous PMs negotiation came up with this backstop, did not come up with an alternative even in face of mortal destruction. Boris governments official policy is not we don’t like the backstop so no backstop, the only honest policy or realistic negotiation is an alternative plan to be agreed with EU replacing proposed backstop, something Boris with customary oomph agreed to have settled in just 30 days last week, accepting it was up to Britain to provide a solution, and said he was "more than happy" with the "blistering timetable" Merkel had set out. So Boris, the EU heads of state and negotiators, the British people, the whole world is waiting to hear your plan for alternative backstop, your timetable is ticking down. If the opposition parties are smart they shouldn’t allow themselves to be distracted, this is the line they should keep the pressure up with. “why are you prevaricating day after day and chucking out Trumpesque chaff?” Where’s your backstop alternative?
Welcome to PB Mr Egg.
Your point is a good one... where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Where is that backstop alternative Boris?
Don’t let him get away with Trump style distractions.
Where is that backstop alternative Boris? Should be the only question in town.
Where it has always been.
It’s up to Britain to provide a solution. Where’s that alternative backstop Boris?
Parliament has repeated voted the WA including the backstop down
So Boris has told the EU it is unacceptable
If there is no alternative that can be developed - and it would be more sensible to approach this in a collaborative manner - then there is No Deal
There is an alternative - Labour Brexit. However 2 Tory PMs have been too pig-headed to accept this.
oh do tell.
This is that magical brexit they are going to campaign against in a referendum is it?
God give me strength.
The ship has sailed. If May had compromised with Jezza 6 months ago Brexit would have been delivered on time and we would be back to normal politics.
I still think highly of John Major! He was (and is) a man of the people and it probably goes a long way to explaining his achieving over 14 million votes in a GE for a single party in 1992.
At a trivial anecdote level, I remember his holding a door open for me for some time as I struggled with various piles of papers as a very green MP. He and Ruth Kelly stood out in my mind in the early days for their exceptional courtesy.
Comments
https://news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/250125/this-is-how-city-of-london-workers-voted-in
https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2016-eu-referendum
The Tories under Boris are standing up for the working class against the diehard Remainer establishment, winning working class patriots much as Salisbury and Thatcher did
https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=269157
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-49502232
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
At least Blair and Cameron waited a few years before embarking on their respective catastrophic legacies. Johnson has managed one of his in around a month.
Opponents of no-deal Brexit denounce the move as a ‘coup’ by the prime minister"
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/boris-johnson-suspend-parliament-queen-prorogue-commons-brexit-a9082281.html
https://twitter.com/joncstone/status/1166748391822548992
Boris being shady and dishonest is generally assumed by political nerds, but I'm not sure it's yet in the price for Joe Public.
People do not prove Johnson is a dangerous fool by pretending Corbyn is a sane alternative. They just look like idiots.
The way to prove Johnson is a dangerous fool is to list his actions. Same goes for Corbyn.
That and the complete collapse of the Tory vote even before Tories in less favoured parts of Britain voted the fat spiv into office.
27% of Tories, said YouGov today, regarded his prorogation as "unacceptable". How many lost, once-safe, seats does that translate into?
So Boris has told the EU it is unacceptable
If there is no alternative that can be developed - and it would be more sensible to approach this in a collaborative manner - then there is No Deal
If the bad language is too much for this site, feel free to delete, editors
Corbyn or Johnson? You decide.
The same friend has more recently worked with Boris. Opinion unprintable!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAGVQLHvwOY
This is that magical brexit they are going to campaign against in a referendum is it?
God give me strength.
NEW THREAD
https://twitter.com/odysseanproject/status/1166805256963088384?s=21
https://twitter.com/BBCVickiYoung/status/1166711208700981249
Incidentally, one of the last times I remember that three PCs used Orders in Council to such effect was the Falklands, when the three PCs were Thatcher, Nott and Tebbit. Can anybody remember another?
There are some people on twitter trying to compare today to 9/11...
Bonkers