politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Corbyn end days might soon be upon us

surbiton19 said:

To all Liberal Democrats on PB: I am hearing that Davey [ who is my MP ] is doing better than expected. Is this correct ? I am asking this because the person who gave me this information is not neutral, shall we say.

When's the result?

(PS Your MP probably my leader)

williamglenn said:

kle4 said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/anthonyjwells/status/1152199330838786049

Is false recall really the right term? I get there could be confusion about voting some ways back, but surely no one without a problem 'recalls' incorrectly so recently?

Not everyone takes the decision so seriously that it's indelibly marked in their memory.

That's a reason not to remember who you voted for in 79, or 97, but come on, it's so casual people actually forget within a few years?

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

Lol @ Patel in a top job. Would even Bozo plumb such depths?

Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals

For those of the yellow peril bent and others refraining from excess on a Friday evening may wish to consider an hour of fun and frolics with Jo and Ed on BBC News at 7:00pm as another hustings hit the airwaves.

See as they fight over the future of LibDem bar charts, the greater meaning of STV and whether a new leader should sport a beard and sandals at the State Opening of Parliament - Jo not keen on sandals apparently !!

Mr. W, not sure I can handle the excitement

Roger said:

For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. (Very funny)

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

Like Trump, he's someone we should take seriously but not literally.

HYUFD said:

Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals

Indeed so. Patel a fully paid up member of the hang em and flog em brigade ..... and that's just for non No Deal Tory MP's.

RH1992 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

Theuniondivvie said:

Roger said:

TrèsDifficile said:

Roger said:

TrèsDifficile said:

Roger said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1152232119172812803?s=21

I'd be surprised if any voter takes it seriously anymore. Whoever is pumping out these stories yesterday accused him of consorting with an Orthodox Rabbi who is a homophobe! They didn't understand there's no such thing as an orthodox rabbi who isn't a homophobe!

Are there Orthodox Rabbis who don't write emails to other Rabbis, copied in to all of the local Jewish population, addressing them as 'Kapo', like this homophobic chap did?

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/anti-ofsted-charedi-activist-shraga-stern-sparks-anger-by-calling-rabbi-pinter-kapo-1.481714

I can't understand a word of the JC article. Not a first by any means. If you know an Orthodox Rabbi who believes homosexuality is acceptable then you aren't Jewish or you don't know any Orthodox Jews let alone Orthodox Rabbis. There's enough crap to throw at Corbyn without dredging up this nonsense. My sense is he isn't anti semitic and I believe if he was I'd know it

It's pretty fricking straightforward.

Corbyn's best Rabbi friend, who is a massive homophobe, addressed another Rabbi, Avraham Pinter, as "Kapo Pinter".

Kapo was the term used in concentration camps for the Jewish prisoners who got slightly favourable treatment for supervising their fellow prisoners.

This man is a disgusting individual even if, as you're seemingly happy to, you can ignore his horrible homophobia.

I got that much but what does that have to do with Corbyn or my origina post.? A spat between Rabbis is as common as a Man City win. One of the great things about orthodox rabbis is their learning. If he chooses to use the word 'Capo' however tasteless that's up to him. Neither of them are morons. They don't need your council or the JC's

I gather Kapo is also a term that gets thrown about quite a bit at the gamier end of discussions about Israel etc, particularly at Jews who criticise Israel or defend Corbyn (eg Chomsky and Michael Rosen).

Correct. There's more disinformation over Corbyn's 'anti semitism' than Johnson's kipper.

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

Lol @ Patel in a top job. Would even Bozo plumb such depths?

Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals

We could have hanging back for Christmas!

TrèsDifficile said:

Roger said:

TrèsDifficile said:

Roger said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1152232119172812803?s=21

I'd be surprised if any voter takes it seriously anymore. Whoever is pumping out these stories yesterday accused him of consorting with an Orthodox Rabbi who is a homophobe! They didn't understand there's no such thing as an orthodox rabbi who isn't a homophobe!

Are there Orthodox Rabbis who don't write emails to other Rabbis, copied in to all of the local Jewish population, addressing them as 'Kapo', like this homophobic chap did?

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/anti-ofsted-charedi-activist-shraga-stern-sparks-anger-by-calling-rabbi-pinter-kapo-1.481714

I can't understand a word of the JC article. Not a first by any means. If you know an Orthodox Rabbi who believes homosexuality is acceptable then you aren't Jewish or you don't know any Orthodox Jews let alone Orthodox Rabbis. There's enough crap to throw at Corbyn without dredging up this nonsense. My sense is he isn't anti semitic and I believe if he was I'd know it

It's pretty fricking straightforward.

Corbyn's best Rabbi friend, who is a massive homophobe, addressed another Rabbi, Avraham Pinter, as "Kapo Pinter".

Are you sure he's a close friend of Corbyn? There were complaints a couple of days ago that Corbyn had met him, which makes it sound as though they probably aren't personal friends.

HYUFD said:

RH1992 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

Raab , sharp ! Are you having a laugh ?

Rees-Mogg part of the negotiations !

Richard_Nabavi said:

HYUFD said:

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

.. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?

It would explain a lot if HYUFD thought November (and probably several other months) came before October.

Roger said:

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

Lol @ Patel in a top job. Would even Bozo plumb such depths?

Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals

We could have hanging back for Christmas!

Her current plan to is to dig up expired murderers and to posthumously hang them.

..

Richard_Nabavi said:

HYUFD said:

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

.. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?

Looking to the future, a week is certainly a long time in politics but yesterday is a wee bit late .....

"Tour de France 2019: Geraint Thomas loses time on leader Julian Alaphilippe"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/49049692

rcs1000 said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

HYUFD said:

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

.. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?

Oh, you've made a rooky error. When Johnson talked about a October 31st deadline, he wasn't talking about *this* year.

As soon as he wins he can seamlessly add "2021" to the promise.

rcs1000 said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

HYUFD said:

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

.. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?

Oh, you've made a rooky error. When Johnson talked about a October 31st deadline, he wasn't talking about *this* year.

Bernard Montgomery promised the soldiers of the 8th Army in a speech before El Alamein in October 1942 that if they broke the Afrika Korps In the upcoming battle he would have them home for Christmas.

As my grandfather, a senior officer in 2nd New Zealand Division drily noted, he forgot to mention the Christmas in question was Christmas 1944.

HYUFD said:

RH1992 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

I feel like at this point you've given yourself over entirely to the noble pursuit of triggering the libs

Stereotomy said:

HYUFD said:

RH1992 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

I feel like at this point you've given yourself over entirely to the noble pursuit of triggering the libs

This is a Trumpian art ; HYUFD more honestly believes and supports his views slightly more than Trump, I think.

eek said:

rottenborough said:

https://twitter.com/anthonyjwells/status/1152199330838786049

Is it faulty memory or just embarrassment and unwilling to admit..

Like the four people willing to admit they chanted "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" to laud the anti-semitic Brexiteer knobhead at Glastonbury 2017....

HYUFD said:

RH1992 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

I can see Raab as FS and the reason why BoJo could appoint him. Raab is more of a buffoon than Boris himself.

When is a member of the lying, dishonest media going to ask Trump what he thinks about Boris calling him stupefyingly ignorant?

https://twitter.com/fidelmacook/status/1152266668535685120?s=20

surbiton19 said:

noneoftheabove said:

If Corbyn were to depart, there is a big void in the list of potential candidates to take over, as the only people he trusts are those he has known for ever (McDonnell, Abbott) or completely green and inexperienced (Pidcock, Long Bailey, Butler).

Starmer is more bureaucrat than politician and that wont play well after May. Thornberry is poor but may get rewarded for her loyalty. McDonnell would get those concerned about anti semitism back on board, but would be equally scary to Tory remainers as Corbyn.

Outside the shadow cabinet Watson would be too polarising and the other senior figures too far to the right.

Not sure what the conclusion is, McDonnell possibly overpriced at 20?

Definitely overpriced. But Emily will be the next leader.

Not with 54% of Labour members still backing Corbyn, McDonnell, Pidcock or Long Bailey more likely

Theuniondivvie said:

When is a member of the lying, dishonest media going to ask Trump what he thinks about Boris calling him stupefyingly ignorant?

https://twitter.com/fidelmacook/status/1152266668535685120?s=20

He had spoken to Boris beforehand.

Boris has not had the Trump superfandom of Farage (who even addressed a Mississippi Trump rally well before Trump beat Hillary) but past Boris statements are water under the bridge and of course Boris can also say he insulted Hillary, comparing her to 'a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital'

Chelyabinsk said:

Roger said:

For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

And why did they introduce the rule?.

'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'

Requiring fresh food to be refrigerated isn't an obviously stupid rule. Is it really the outrage Johnson claims, if the EU is involved in setting a rule that the UK would have applied anyway?

WhisperingOracle said:

HYUFD said:

RH1992 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.

Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'

HYUFD said:

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

Lol @ Patel in a top job. Would even Bozo plumb such depths?

Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals

Will the first hanging be free-to-air or pay-per-view ? Well before 9:00 pm, I take it.

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

HYUFD said:

RH1992 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.

Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'

I am sure @Cyclefree can regale us with stories of utterly incompetent yet highly paid QCs.

Edit - this one sprang to mind, although an historic example:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_Griffith-Jones

surbiton19 said:

noneoftheabove said:

If Corbyn were to depart, there is a big void in the list of potential candidates to take over, as the only people he trusts are those he has known for ever (McDonnell, Abbott) or completely green and inexperienced (Pidcock, Long Bailey, Butler).

Starmer is more bureaucrat than politician and that wont play well after May. Thornberry is poor but may get rewarded for her loyalty. McDonnell would get those concerned about anti semitism back on board, but would be equally scary to Tory remainers as Corbyn.

Outside the shadow cabinet Watson would be too polarising and the other senior figures too far to the right.

Not sure what the conclusion is, McDonnell possibly overpriced at 20?

Definitely overpriced. But Emily will be the next leader.

You've done it now !!!!!!!!!!!!

Thornberry in hospital after being knocked off her bike :

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49046447

I wonder whether a man from Islington is helping police with their enquiries ?!?! ..

nico67 said:

If I was Bozo I’d keep a lot of distance from Trump .

Getting close to a popular US President is one thing . Sucking up to a racist lunatic who is very unpopular in the UK won’t do him any favours.

Trump now has a higher approval rating with Leave and 2017 Tory voters than Corbyn, Blair and Cameron and Swinson

https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/

nico67 said:

FF43 said:

Chelyabinsk said:

Roger said:

For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

And why did they introduce the rule?.

'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'

Requiring fresh food to be refrigerated isn't an obviously stupid rule. Is it really the outrage Johnson claims, if the EU is involved in setting a rule that the UK would have applied anyway?

Yes God Forbid , the general public should be protected against things like listeria. I’m beginning to think if the EU had a cure for cancer some Leavers would still trash it because it said EU.

Are you advocating things like chlorinated chicken?

FF43 said:

Chelyabinsk said:

Roger said:

For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

And why did they introduce the rule?.

'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'

Requiring fresh food to be refrigerated isn't an obviously stupid rule. Is it really the outrage Johnson claims, if the EU is involved in setting a rule that the UK would have applied anyway?

As the piece linked to suggests, though unaccountably left off the highlighted section.

'In that, Johnson may be right on a technicality that the EU Law (in part) does require chilled kippers – for once, wrong-footing the Commission - but he is wholly wrong in criticising an essentially sensible measure.'

Of course whatever shitey Brexit we end up with, if we want a piece of the EU kipper action we'll still have to comply with EU rules. That'll be completely different from the current oppressive situation where we have to comply with EU rules.

ydoethur said:

Dear me:

Labour MP Emily Thornberry in hospital after bicycle accident
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49046447

Fortunately sounds like she's not too badly hurt.

My backing her to be the next Leader may have been distracting.

surbiton19 said:

HYUFD said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

HYUFD said:

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

.. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?

The Withdrawal Agreement can be passed minus the backstop by October 31st as the Brady amendment showed already has a Commons majority, then as Merkel suggested today the technical solution for the Irish border can be dealt with in the Political Declaration and future relationship which is not legally binding

And, the ERG will accept this ?

Most of them yes minus the backstop and the DUP, see the Commons majority for the Brady amendment

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

HYUFD said:

RH1992 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.

Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'

I am sure @Cyclefree can regale us with stories of utterly incompetent yet highly paid QCs.

Edit - this one sprang to mind, although an historic example:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_Griffith-Jones

As Cyclefree being a diehard Remainer is the Oracle of all wisdom rather than a compliance officer

Theuniondivvie said:

FF43 said:

Chelyabinsk said:

Roger said:

For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

And why did they introduce the rule?.

'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'

Requiring fresh food to be refrigerated isn't an obviously stupid rule. Is it really the outrage Johnson claims, if the EU is involved in setting a rule that the UK would have applied anyway?

As the piece linked to suggests, though unaccountably left off the highlighted section.

'In that, Johnson may be right on a technicality that the EU Law (in part) does require chilled kippers – for once, wrong-footing the Commission - but he is wholly wrong in criticising an essentially sensible measure.'

Of course whatever shitey Brexit we end up with, if we want a piece of the EU kipper action we'll still have to comply with EU rules. That'll be completely different from the current oppressive situation where we have to comply with EU rules.

I agree, but Johnson's outrage is about being forced to do things we decided to do anyway

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1152275504365481986

Stupid question as it relies on Boris extending not trying to prorogue Parliament etc to ensure Brexit on 31st October as he will do

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

nico67 said:

If I was Bozo I’d keep a lot of distance from Trump .

Getting close to a popular US President is one thing . Sucking up to a racist lunatic who is very unpopular in the UK won’t do him any favours.

Trump has a higher approval rating with Leave voters than Corbyn, Blair and Cameron

Than a despot, a warmonger and a failure?

That sets the bar so high.

Trump has higher approvals with Leave voters than Jo Swinson too in that poll

Looks like the Iranians have seized a British tanker. Thank goodness Boris will sort it out.

surbiton19 said:

Chelyabinsk said:

Roger said:

For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

And why did they introduce the rule?.

The EU law is applicable to fresh fish only.

Better to read the actual EU regulations than trust what the BBC tells you. Regulation (EC) No 852/2004

Preamble point 5: 'These principles constitute a common basis for the hygienic production of all food, including products of animal origin listed in Annex I to the Treaty.'
Article 1: 'This Regulation lays down general rules for food business operators on the hygiene of foodstuffs, taking particular account of the following principles:... (c) it is important, for food that cannot be stored safely at ambient temperatures, particularly frozen food, to maintain the cold chain... This Regulation shall apply to all stages of production, processing and distribution of food and to exports, and without prejudice to more specific requirements relating to food hygiene.'
Article 2: '"processing" means any action that substantially alters the initial product, including heating, smoking, curing, maturing, drying, marinating, extraction, extrusion or a combination of those processes;'
Article 4.2: 'Food business operators carrying out any stage of production, processing and distribution of food after those stages to which paragraph 1 applies shall comply with the general hygiene requirements laid down in Annex II'
Article 4.3: 'Food business operators shall, as appropriate, adopt the following specific hygiene measures... (c) compliance with temperature control requirements for foodstuffs; (d) maintenance of the cold chain;'
Annex II, Chapter IV, article 7: 'Where necessary, conveyances and/or containers used for transporting foodstuffs are to be capable of maintaining foodstuffs at appropriate temperatures'.

FF43 said:

Requiring fresh food to be refrigerated isn't an obviously stupid rule. Is it really the outrage Johnson claims, if the EU is involved in setting a rule that the UK would have applied anyway?

Requiring smoked and vacuum-packed food to be refrigerated may well be, though I'm not that concerned about the specifics. The interesting points highlighted are twofold: how deeply EU law has permeated every aspect of UK life, and how willing people are to accept a false contradiction if it makes someone they don't like look foolish.

HYUFD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1152275504365481986

Stupid question as it relies on Boris extending not trying to prorogue Parliament etc to ensure Brexit on 31st October as he will do

You're reading something into the question that isn't there.

Chelyabinsk said:

Roger said:

For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

And why did they introduce the rule?.

'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'

THANK YOU. At last someone has said it. And people have the audacity to blame Brexit on successive Governments' so called 'euroskepticism', when actually they've been giving the EU cover for years by implementing its harmonisations as national policy.

dixiedean said:

Looks like the Iranians have seized a British tanker. Thank goodness Boris will sort it out.

Can't find that story. What's your source?

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

HYUFD said:

RH1992 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.

Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'

I am sure @Cyclefree can regale us with stories of utterly incompetent yet highly paid QCs.

Edit - this one sprang to mind, although an historic example:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_Griffith-Jones

As Cyclefree being a diehard Remainer is the Oracle of all wisdom rather than a compliance officer

Compliance officer?

LMAO - Seriously, you've outdone yourself there.

Like saying Michelangelo was an ok decorator.

Cyclefree said:

HYUFD said:

ydoethur said:

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

HYUFD said:

RH1992 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.

Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'

I am sure @Cyclefree can regale us with stories of utterly incompetent yet highly paid QCs.

Edit - this one sprang to mind, although an historic example:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_Griffith-Jones

As Cyclefree being a diehard Remainer is the Oracle of all wisdom rather than a compliance officer

Hello: I am not a diehard Remainer, whatever "diehard" means. Nor am I or have I ever been a Compliance officer.

Whether I'm an Oracle of wisdom I will leave to others.

I can certainly regale you with lots of stories. But you'll need to be very nice indeed to me.

How much coffee would it take?

AlastairMeeks said:

HYUFD said:

AlastairMeeks said:

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1152275504365481986

Stupid question as it relies on Boris extending not trying to prorogue Parliament etc to ensure Brexit on 31st October as he will do

You're reading something into the question that isn't there.

Nope, if Boris is trying to prorogue Parliament to deliver Brexit and MPs block him most Leavers will still back him if he refuses to extend

IanB2 said:

BBC2: LibDem hustings followed by first night of the Proms #Fridaynightin

I'm not sure @Morris_Dancer can stand the pace !!!!!!!!!

IanB2 said:

HYUFD said:

WhisperingOracle said:

HYUFD said:

RH1992 said:

HYUFD said:

MarqueeMark said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1152234631699324928

Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.

Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business

I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.

Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.

Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'

Wasn’t he the one who stood up in the Commons and told his Tory colleagues they were legislators, not children, and needed to avoid the disaster of no deal?

He voted for the Brady amendment and backed Leave and has not voted to try and block No Deal