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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The Corbyn end days might soon be upon us

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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894
    edited July 2019

    To all Liberal Democrats on PB: I am hearing that Davey [ who is my MP ] is doing better than expected. Is this correct ? I am asking this because the person who gave me this information is not neutral, shall we say.

    When's the result?

    (PS Your MP probably my leader)
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242
    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I'd be surprised if any voter takes it seriously anymore. Whoever is pumping out these stories yesterday accused him of consorting with an Orthodox Rabbi who is a homophobe! They didn't understand there's no such thing as an orthodox rabbi who isn't a homophobe!
    Are there Orthodox Rabbis who don't write emails to other Rabbis, copied in to all of the local Jewish population, addressing them as 'Kapo', like this homophobic chap did?

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/anti-ofsted-charedi-activist-shraga-stern-sparks-anger-by-calling-rabbi-pinter-kapo-1.481714
    I can't understand a word of the JC article. Not a first by any means. If you know an Orthodox Rabbi who believes homosexuality is acceptable then you aren't Jewish or you don't know any Orthodox Jews let alone Orthodox Rabbis. There's enough crap to throw at Corbyn without dredging up this nonsense. My sense is he isn't anti semitic and I believe if he was I'd know it
    It's pretty fricking straightforward.

    Corbyn's best Rabbi friend, who is a massive homophobe, addressed another Rabbi, Avraham Pinter, as "Kapo Pinter".

    Kapo was the term used in concentration camps for the Jewish prisoners who got slightly favourable treatment for supervising their fellow prisoners.

    This man is a disgusting individual even if, as you're seemingly happy to, you can ignore his horrible homophobia.
    I got that much but what does that have to do with Corbyn or my origina post.? A spat between Rabbis is as common as a Man City win. One of the great things about orthodox rabbis is their learning. If he chooses to use the word 'Capo' however tasteless that's up to him. Neither of them are morons. They don't need your council or the JC's
    I gather Kapo is also a term that gets thrown about quite a bit at the gamier end of discussions about Israel etc, particularly at Jews who criticise Israel or defend Corbyn (eg Chomsky and Michael Rosen).
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,955

    kle4 said:

    Is false recall really the right term? I get there could be confusion about voting some ways back, but surely no one without a problem 'recalls' incorrectly so recently?
    Not everyone takes the decision so seriously that it's indelibly marked in their memory.
    That's a reason not to remember who you voted for in 79, or 97, but come on, it's so casual people actually forget within a few years?
  • Options
    RH1992RH1992 Posts: 788
    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    Lol @ Patel in a top job. Would even Bozo plumb such depths?
    Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    Lol @ Patel in a top job. Would even Bozo plumb such depths?
    Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals
    And Charles Clarke look like a dazzling success.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    For those of the yellow peril bent and others refraining from excess on a Friday evening may wish to consider an hour of fun and frolics with Jo and Ed on BBC News at 7:00pm as another hustings hit the airwaves.

    See as they fight over the future of LibDem bar charts, the greater meaning of STV and whether a new leader should sport a beard and sandals at the State Opening of Parliament - Jo not keen on sandals apparently !!
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,295
    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    First day on the job, he finds out you can get a train to Brussels from London.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,002
    Mr. W, not sure I can handle the excitement :p
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    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894
    edited July 2019
    For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Roger said:

    For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. (Very funny)

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

    Like Trump, he's someone we should take seriously but not literally.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    Lol @ Patel in a top job. Would even Bozo plumb such depths?
    Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals
    I'm reluctant to ask if that's that's an outcome that fills you with pleasurable anticipation or dread.
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    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    HYUFD said:

    Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals

    Indeed so. Patel a fully paid up member of the hang em and flog em brigade ..... and that's just for non No Deal Tory MP's.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,375
    edited July 2019

    To all Liberal Democrats on PB: I am hearing that Davey [ who is my MP ] is doing better than expected. Is this correct ? I am asking this because the person who gave me this information is not neutral, shall we say.

    He’s had the better of the campaign and is still working very hard. He’s also helped by being the more experienced and heavyweight figure at a time when momentous events could be just around the corner.

    So could well be true.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    HYUFD said:

    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

    .. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I'd be surprised if any voter takes it seriously anymore. Whoever is pumping out these stories yesterday accused him of consorting with an Orthodox Rabbi who is a homophobe! They didn't understand there's no such thing as an orthodox rabbi who isn't a homophobe!
    Are there Orthodox Rabbis who don't write emails to other Rabbis, copied in to all of the local Jewish population, addressing them as 'Kapo', like this homophobic chap did?

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/anti-ofsted-charedi-activist-shraga-stern-sparks-anger-by-calling-rabbi-pinter-kapo-1.481714
    I can't understand a word of the JC article. Not a first by any means. If you know an Orthodox Rabbi who believes homosexuality is acceptable then you aren't Jewish or you don't know any Orthodox Jews let alone Orthodox Rabbis. There's enough crap to throw at Corbyn without dredging up this nonsense. My sense is he isn't anti semitic and I believe if he was I'd know it
    It's pretty fricking straightforward.

    Corbyn's best Rabbi friend, who is a massive homophobe, addressed another Rabbi, Avraham Pinter, as "Kapo Pinter".

    Kapo was the term used in concentration camps for the Jewish prisoners who got slightly favourable treatment for supervising their fellow prisoners.

    This man is a disgusting individual even if, as you're seemingly happy to, you can ignore his horrible homophobia.
    I got that much but what does that have to do with Corbyn or my origina post.? A spat between Rabbis is as common as a Man City win. One of the great things about orthodox rabbis is their learning. If he chooses to use the word 'Capo' however tasteless that's up to him. Neither of them are morons. They don't need your council or the JC's
    I gather Kapo is also a term that gets thrown about quite a bit at the gamier end of discussions about Israel etc, particularly at Jews who criticise Israel or defend Corbyn (eg Chomsky and Michael Rosen).
    Correct. There's more disinformation over Corbyn's 'anti semitism' than Johnson's kipper.
  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,676
    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    Renegotiation? What renegotiation?

    And why would Bozo want to renegotiate when he voted in favour of the existing deal?

    (After resigning over it)
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,894
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    Lol @ Patel in a top job. Would even Bozo plumb such depths?
    Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals
    We could have hanging back for Christmas!
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062
    eek said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    There is probably only one bigger misogynist in parliament than Boris, and he is one Jeremy Corbyn. what a state we are in. Can't we pressgang some captains of industry, mix them with some decent quality trade unionists, a doctor here and a successful lawyer there, and end up with a government that is actually made up of decent talent? Instead we have a choice between a washed up thicko Marxist, and a gaffe-prone polemicist who has the attention span, the attention to detail and the leadership capability of a goldfish
    Why would anyone with any sense become a politician - you can earn more money and do more good elsewhere...
    I doubt most of those donkeys could unless it was daddy or old school tie hiring them
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,136

    Roger said:

    Roger said:

    I'd be surprised if any voter takes it seriously anymore. Whoever is pumping out these stories yesterday accused him of consorting with an Orthodox Rabbi who is a homophobe! They didn't understand there's no such thing as an orthodox rabbi who isn't a homophobe!
    Are there Orthodox Rabbis who don't write emails to other Rabbis, copied in to all of the local Jewish population, addressing them as 'Kapo', like this homophobic chap did?

    https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/anti-ofsted-charedi-activist-shraga-stern-sparks-anger-by-calling-rabbi-pinter-kapo-1.481714
    I can't understand a word of the JC article. Not a first by any means. If you know an Orthodox Rabbi who believes homosexuality is acceptable then you aren't Jewish or you don't know any Orthodox Jews let alone Orthodox Rabbis. There's enough crap to throw at Corbyn without dredging up this nonsense. My sense is he isn't anti semitic and I believe if he was I'd know it
    It's pretty fricking straightforward.

    Corbyn's best Rabbi friend, who is a massive homophobe, addressed another Rabbi, Avraham Pinter, as "Kapo Pinter".
    Are you sure he's a close friend of Corbyn? There were complaints a couple of days ago that Corbyn had met him, which makes it sound as though they probably aren't personal friends.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,375

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    Renegotiation? What renegotiation?

    And why would Bozo want to renegotiate when he voted in favour of the existing deal?

    (After resigning over it)
    (After toasting it)
  • Options
    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    Raab , sharp ! Are you having a laugh ?

    Rees-Mogg part of the negotiations !
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 42,062

    HYUFD said:

    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

    .. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?
    Couple it with those idiots sitting alone at a table wondering what to do next
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,136

    HYUFD said:

    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

    .. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?
    It would explain a lot if HYUFD thought November (and probably several other months) came before October.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,058

    HYUFD said:

    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

    .. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?
    Oh, you've made a rooky error. When Johnson talked about a October 31st deadline, he wasn't talking about *this* year.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,058
    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    Lol @ Patel in a top job. Would even Bozo plumb such depths?
    Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals
    We could have hanging back for Christmas!
    Her current plan to is to dig up expired murderers and to posthumously hang them.
  • Options
    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited July 2019
    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,773
    edited July 2019
    ..
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    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502

    HYUFD said:

    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

    .. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?
    Yes exactly ! The sensible approach would have been to say , as there’s a new commission which comes in 1 st November and with the holidays where nothing much will get done Bozo or Hunt should have said we’ll ask for an extension to make sure new negotiations could get finished and the legislation passed by the Commons .

    Instead we have an October 31 st date which can’t be met even if there’s a new deal . The EU WA took 50 days to get through the Commons and the Lords .

    The WAIB will be much bigger .
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    HYUFD said:

    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

    .. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?
    Looking to the future, a week is certainly a long time in politics but yesterday is a wee bit late .....
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    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,773
    ..
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    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    "Tour de France 2019: Geraint Thomas loses time on leader Julian Alaphilippe"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cycling/49049692
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    Renegotiation? What renegotiation?

    And why would Bozo want to renegotiate when he voted in favour of the existing deal?

    (After resigning over it)
    He didn't resign over it. He resigned because he feared the reaction to it would cost him his cherished status as Headbanger in Chief if he didn't.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,119
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

    .. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?
    Oh, you've made a rooky error. When Johnson talked about a October 31st deadline, he wasn't talking about *this* year.
    As soon as he wins he can seamlessly add "2021" to the promise.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,824
    If Corbyn were to depart, there is a big void in the list of potential candidates to take over, as the only people he trusts are those he has known for ever (McDonnell, Abbott) or completely green and inexperienced (Pidcock, Long Bailey, Butler).

    Starmer is more bureaucrat than politician and that wont play well after May. Thornberry is poor but may get rewarded for her loyalty. McDonnell would get those concerned about anti semitism back on board, but would be equally scary to Tory remainers as Corbyn.

    Outside the shadow cabinet Watson would be too polarising and the other senior figures too far to the right.

    Not sure what the conclusion is, McDonnell possibly overpriced at 20?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

    .. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?
    Oh, you've made a rooky error. When Johnson talked about a October 31st deadline, he wasn't talking about *this* year.
    Bernard Montgomery promised the soldiers of the 8th Army in a speech before El Alamein in October 1942 that if they broke the Afrika Korps In the upcoming battle he would have them home for Christmas.

    As my grandfather, a senior officer in 2nd New Zealand Division drily noted, he forgot to mention the Christmas in question was Christmas 1944.
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    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,824
    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    Should Rees Mogg put his assets in a blind trust before doing sensitive negotiations over which he can make a fortune? Or are ethics for the twentieth century as in the US?
  • Options
    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    I feel like at this point you've given yourself over entirely to the noble pursuit of triggering the libs
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    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited July 2019

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    Should Rees Mogg put his assets in a blind trust before doing sensitive negotiations over which he can make a fortune? Or are ethics for the twentieth century as in the US?
    As his soulmate Nigel Farage seems to have been relatively open about his financial dealings on Brexit night, I doubt very much that Jacob Rees-Mogg will have any qualms about personally gaining from the process at all. His father's book actively encouraged him to.
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    WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 8,503
    edited July 2019

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    I feel like at this point you've given yourself over entirely to the noble pursuit of triggering the libs
    This is a Trumpian art ; HYUFD more honestly believes and supports his views slightly more than Trump, I think.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,887
    TGOHF said:
    Some good news for once. Well done Darren. :D
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,137
    eek said:

    Is it faulty memory or just embarrassment and unwilling to admit..
    Like the four people willing to admit they chanted "Oh Jeremy Corbyn" to laud the anti-semitic Brexiteer knobhead at Glastonbury 2017....
  • Options
    ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 488
    edited July 2019
    Roger said:

    For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

    And why did they introduce the rule?.

    'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

    'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

    'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

    'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'
  • Options
    surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    I can see Raab as FS and the reason why BoJo could appoint him. Raab is more of a buffoon than Boris himself.
  • Options
    surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    Roger said:

    For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

    And why did they introduce the rule?.

    'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

    'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

    'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

    'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'
    The EU law is applicable to fresh fish only.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242
    When is a member of the lying, dishonest media going to ask Trump what he thinks about Boris calling him stupefyingly ignorant?

    https://twitter.com/fidelmacook/status/1152266668535685120?s=20
  • Options
    surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469

    If Corbyn were to depart, there is a big void in the list of potential candidates to take over, as the only people he trusts are those he has known for ever (McDonnell, Abbott) or completely green and inexperienced (Pidcock, Long Bailey, Butler).

    Starmer is more bureaucrat than politician and that wont play well after May. Thornberry is poor but may get rewarded for her loyalty. McDonnell would get those concerned about anti semitism back on board, but would be equally scary to Tory remainers as Corbyn.

    Outside the shadow cabinet Watson would be too polarising and the other senior figures too far to the right.

    Not sure what the conclusion is, McDonnell possibly overpriced at 20?

    Definitely overpriced. But Emily will be the next leader.

  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117

    If Corbyn were to depart, there is a big void in the list of potential candidates to take over, as the only people he trusts are those he has known for ever (McDonnell, Abbott) or completely green and inexperienced (Pidcock, Long Bailey, Butler).

    Starmer is more bureaucrat than politician and that wont play well after May. Thornberry is poor but may get rewarded for her loyalty. McDonnell would get those concerned about anti semitism back on board, but would be equally scary to Tory remainers as Corbyn.

    Outside the shadow cabinet Watson would be too polarising and the other senior figures too far to the right.

    Not sure what the conclusion is, McDonnell possibly overpriced at 20?

    Definitely overpriced. But Emily will be the next leader.

    Not with 54% of Labour members still backing Corbyn, McDonnell, Pidcock or Long Bailey more likely
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,119

    When is a member of the lying, dishonest media going to ask Trump what he thinks about Boris calling him stupefyingly ignorant?

    The preceding question should be, “Mr President, do you think Boris Johnson has good judgment?”
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    edited July 2019

    When is a member of the lying, dishonest media going to ask Trump what he thinks about Boris calling him stupefyingly ignorant?

    https://twitter.com/fidelmacook/status/1152266668535685120?s=20

    He had spoken to Boris beforehand.

    Boris has not had the Trump superfandom of Farage (who even addressed a Mississippi Trump rally well before Trump beat Hillary) but past Boris statements are water under the bridge and of course Boris can also say he insulted Hillary, comparing her to 'a sadistic nurse in a mental hospital'
  • Options
    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    I think it’s pretty clear now that suspending Parliament isn’t going to happen unless Bozo has completely lost the plot .

    The mere act of doing this to reduce the time for MPs to sit given the passing of the amendment would go down very badly.

    What yesterday’s drama shows is that MPs will continue to find ways to amend even innocuous looking legislation .

    Although yesterday’s vote doesn’t stop a no deal it was critical that it passed . Another defeat for those seeking to stop a no deal could have shattered the confidence that it could be stopped .

    The win rejuvenates those seeking to do that , additionally the lack of a rebellion amongst the more pro Leave Labour MPs was also a positive sign .

    When push came to shove the more moderate Tories did stand up , this was another critical marker.

    Bizarely Bozo forced MPs into a vote , he really didn’t need to do this , simply ruling out suspension would have not seen a likely win for this amendment, it might not even have been tabled .

    So hes about to start his premiership already having made a bad move , the defeat may have technically been under Mays watch but this was a vote against him .

  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,773

    Roger said:

    For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

    And why did they introduce the rule?.

    'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

    'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

    'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

    'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'
    Requiring fresh food to be refrigerated isn't an obviously stupid rule. Is it really the outrage Johnson claims, if the EU is involved in setting a rule that the UK would have applied anyway?
  • Options
    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    If I was Bozo I’d keep a lot of distance from Trump .

    Getting close to a popular US President is one thing . Sucking up to a racist lunatic who is very unpopular in the UK won’t do him any favours.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.
    Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    Dear me:

    Labour MP Emily Thornberry in hospital after bicycle accident
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49046447

    Fortunately sounds like she's not too badly hurt.
  • Options
    surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    Lol @ Patel in a top job. Would even Bozo plumb such depths?
    Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals
    Will the first hanging be free-to-air or pay-per-view ? Well before 9:00 pm, I take it.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117

    HYUFD said:

    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

    .. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?
    The Withdrawal Agreement can be passed minus the backstop by October 31st as the Brady amendment showed already has a Commons majority, then as Merkel suggested today the technical solution for the Irish border can be dealt with in the Political Declaration and future relationship which is not legally binding
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    edited July 2019
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.
    Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'
    I am sure @Cyclefree can regale us with stories of utterly incompetent yet highly paid QCs.

    Edit - this one sprang to mind, although an historic example:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_Griffith-Jones
  • Options
    nico67nico67 Posts: 4,502
    FF43 said:

    Roger said:

    For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

    And why did they introduce the rule?.

    'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

    'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

    'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

    'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'
    Requiring fresh food to be refrigerated isn't an obviously stupid rule. Is it really the outrage Johnson claims, if the EU is involved in setting a rule that the UK would have applied anyway?
    Yes God Forbid , the general public should be protected against things like listeria. I’m beginning to think if the EU had a cure for cancer some Leavers would still trash it because it said EU.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787

    If Corbyn were to depart, there is a big void in the list of potential candidates to take over, as the only people he trusts are those he has known for ever (McDonnell, Abbott) or completely green and inexperienced (Pidcock, Long Bailey, Butler).

    Starmer is more bureaucrat than politician and that wont play well after May. Thornberry is poor but may get rewarded for her loyalty. McDonnell would get those concerned about anti semitism back on board, but would be equally scary to Tory remainers as Corbyn.

    Outside the shadow cabinet Watson would be too polarising and the other senior figures too far to the right.

    Not sure what the conclusion is, McDonnell possibly overpriced at 20?

    Definitely overpriced. But Emily will be the next leader.

    You've done it now !!!!!!!!!!!!

    Thornberry in hospital after being knocked off her bike :

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49046447

    I wonder whether a man from Islington is helping police with their enquiries ?!?! .. :smiley:
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    Lol @ Patel in a top job. Would even Bozo plumb such depths?
    Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals
    Will the first hanging be free-to-air or pay-per-view ? Well before 9:00 pm, I take it.
    Perhaps we will have a version of the Schwarzenegger film 'the Running Man' hosted by Piers Morgan?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    edited July 2019
    nico67 said:

    If I was Bozo I’d keep a lot of distance from Trump .

    Getting close to a popular US President is one thing . Sucking up to a racist lunatic who is very unpopular in the UK won’t do him any favours.

    Trump now has a higher approval rating with Leave and 2017 Tory voters than Corbyn, Blair and Cameron and Swinson

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2019/07/voters-would-love-boris-round-for-dinner-but-even-his-biggest-fans-would-pick-hunt-to-babysit-their-children/
  • Options
    surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

    .. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?
    The Withdrawal Agreement can be passed minus the backstop by October 31st as the Brady amendment showed already has a Commons majority, then as Merkel suggested today the technical solution for the Irish border can be dealt with in the Political Declaration and future relationship which is not legally binding
    And, the ERG will accept this ?
  • Options
    philiphphiliph Posts: 4,704
    edited July 2019
    nico67 said:

    FF43 said:

    Roger said:

    For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

    And why did they introduce the rule?.

    'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

    'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

    'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

    'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'
    Requiring fresh food to be refrigerated isn't an obviously stupid rule. Is it really the outrage Johnson claims, if the EU is involved in setting a rule that the UK would have applied anyway?
    Yes God Forbid , the general public should be protected against things like listeria. I’m beginning to think if the EU had a cure for cancer some Leavers would still trash it because it said EU.
    Are you advocating things like chlorinated chicken?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    Lol @ Patel in a top job. Would even Bozo plumb such depths?
    Patel as Home Secretary would make Michael Howard and David Blunkett look like wet liberals
    Will the first hanging be free-to-air or pay-per-view ? Well before 9:00 pm, I take it.
    If Hunt is in the government, he'll swing it for Sky.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242
    edited July 2019
    FF43 said:

    Roger said:

    For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

    And why did they introduce the rule?.

    'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

    'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

    'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

    'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'
    Requiring fresh food to be refrigerated isn't an obviously stupid rule. Is it really the outrage Johnson claims, if the EU is involved in setting a rule that the UK would have applied anyway?
    As the piece linked to suggests, though unaccountably left off the highlighted section.

    'In that, Johnson may be right on a technicality that the EU Law (in part) does require chilled kippers – for once, wrong-footing the Commission - but he is wholly wrong in criticising an essentially sensible measure.'

    Of course whatever shitey Brexit we end up with, if we want a piece of the EU kipper action we'll still have to comply with EU rules. That'll be completely different from the current oppressive situation where we have to comply with EU rules.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    If I was Bozo I’d keep a lot of distance from Trump .

    Getting close to a popular US President is one thing . Sucking up to a racist lunatic who is very unpopular in the UK won’t do him any favours.

    Trump has a higher approval rating with Leave voters than Corbyn, Blair and Cameron
    Than a despot, a warmonger and a failure?

    That sets the bar so high.
  • Options
    surbiton19surbiton19 Posts: 1,469
    ydoethur said:

    Dear me:

    Labour MP Emily Thornberry in hospital after bicycle accident
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49046447

    Fortunately sounds like she's not too badly hurt.

    My backing her to be the next Leader may have been distracting.

  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    nico67 said:

    FF43 said:

    Roger said:

    For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

    And why did they introduce the rule?.

    'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

    'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

    'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

    'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'
    Requiring fresh food to be refrigerated isn't an obviously stupid rule. Is it really the outrage Johnson claims, if the EU is involved in setting a rule that the UK would have applied anyway?
    Yes God Forbid , the general public should be protected against things like listeria. I’m beginning to think if the EU had a cure for cancer some Leavers would still trash it because it said EU.
    My father (an epidemiologist) commented the real ridiculousness of this regulation is that listeria thrives at lower temperatures.

    So far from protecting us, this regulation, whatever moron passed it, actually does the opposite.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

    .. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?
    The Withdrawal Agreement can be passed minus the backstop by October 31st as the Brady amendment showed already has a Commons majority, then as Merkel suggested today the technical solution for the Irish border can be dealt with in the Political Declaration and future relationship which is not legally binding
    And, the ERG will accept this ?
    Most of them yes minus the backstop and the DUP, see the Commons majority for the Brady amendment
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.
    Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'
    I am sure @Cyclefree can regale us with stories of utterly incompetent yet highly paid QCs.

    Edit - this one sprang to mind, although an historic example:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_Griffith-Jones
    As Cyclefree being a diehard Remainer is the Oracle of all wisdom rather than a compliance officer
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.
    Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'
    I am sure @Cyclefree can regale us with stories of utterly incompetent yet highly paid QCs.

    Edit - this one sprang to mind, although an historic example:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_Griffith-Jones
    As Cyclefree being a diehard Remainer is the Oracle of all wisdom rather than a compliance officer
    Well, she's never tried to convince us there's a ferry from Ullapool to Inverness.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,773

    FF43 said:

    Roger said:

    For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

    And why did they introduce the rule?.

    'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

    'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

    'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

    'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'
    Requiring fresh food to be refrigerated isn't an obviously stupid rule. Is it really the outrage Johnson claims, if the EU is involved in setting a rule that the UK would have applied anyway?
    As the piece linked to suggests, though unaccountably left off the highlighted section.

    'In that, Johnson may be right on a technicality that the EU Law (in part) does require chilled kippers – for once, wrong-footing the Commission - but he is wholly wrong in criticising an essentially sensible measure.'

    Of course whatever shitey Brexit we end up with, if we want a piece of the EU kipper action we'll still have to comply with EU rules. That'll be completely different from the current oppressive situation where we have to comply with EU rules.
    I agree, but Johnson's outrage is about being forced to do things we decided to do anyway
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,058
    edited July 2019
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.
    Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'
    What's your source for his income?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    Stupid question as it relies on Boris extending not trying to prorogue Parliament etc to ensure Brexit on 31st October as he will do
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,058
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

    .. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?
    The Withdrawal Agreement can be passed minus the backstop by October 31st as the Brady amendment showed already has a Commons majority, then as Merkel suggested today the technical solution for the Irish border can be dealt with in the Political Declaration and future relationship which is not legally binding
    But the Brady amendment already passed...

    So, ummm, it should all be fine and dusted already, right?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    edited July 2019
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    If I was Bozo I’d keep a lot of distance from Trump .

    Getting close to a popular US President is one thing . Sucking up to a racist lunatic who is very unpopular in the UK won’t do him any favours.

    Trump has a higher approval rating with Leave voters than Corbyn, Blair and Cameron
    Than a despot, a warmonger and a failure?

    That sets the bar so high.
    Trump has higher approvals with Leave voters than Jo Swinson too in that poll
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,375
    BBC2: LibDem hustings followed by first night of the Proms #Fridaynightin
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995
    Looks like the Iranians have seized a British tanker. Thank goodness Boris will sort it out.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    nico67 said:

    If I was Bozo I’d keep a lot of distance from Trump .

    Getting close to a popular US President is one thing . Sucking up to a racist lunatic who is very unpopular in the UK won’t do him any favours.

    Trump has a higher approval rating with Leave voters than Corbyn, Blair and Cameron
    Than a despot, a warmonger and a failure?

    That sets the bar so high.
    Trump has higher approvals with Leave voters than Jo Swinson too in that poll
    So he has higher approval ratings than a despot, a warmonger, a failure and a Liberal Democrat?
  • Options
    ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 488
    edited July 2019

    Roger said:

    For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

    And why did they introduce the rule?.
    The EU law is applicable to fresh fish only.
    Better to read the actual EU regulations than trust what the BBC tells you. Regulation (EC) No 852/2004

    Preamble point 5: 'These principles constitute a common basis for the hygienic production of all food, including products of animal origin listed in Annex I to the Treaty.'
    Article 1: 'This Regulation lays down general rules for food business operators on the hygiene of foodstuffs, taking particular account of the following principles:... (c) it is important, for food that cannot be stored safely at ambient temperatures, particularly frozen food, to maintain the cold chain... This Regulation shall apply to all stages of production, processing and distribution of food and to exports, and without prejudice to more specific requirements relating to food hygiene.'
    Article 2: '"processing" means any action that substantially alters the initial product, including heating, smoking, curing, maturing, drying, marinating, extraction, extrusion or a combination of those processes;'
    Article 4.2: 'Food business operators carrying out any stage of production, processing and distribution of food after those stages to which paragraph 1 applies shall comply with the general hygiene requirements laid down in Annex II'
    Article 4.3: 'Food business operators shall, as appropriate, adopt the following specific hygiene measures... (c) compliance with temperature control requirements for foodstuffs; (d) maintenance of the cold chain;'
    Annex II, Chapter IV, article 7: 'Where necessary, conveyances and/or containers used for transporting foodstuffs are to be capable of maintaining foodstuffs at appropriate temperatures'.
    FF43 said:

    Requiring fresh food to be refrigerated isn't an obviously stupid rule. Is it really the outrage Johnson claims, if the EU is involved in setting a rule that the UK would have applied anyway?

    Requiring smoked and vacuum-packed food to be refrigerated may well be, though I'm not that concerned about the specifics. The interesting points highlighted are twofold: how deeply EU law has permeated every aspect of UK life, and how willing people are to accept a false contradiction if it makes someone they don't like look foolish.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,375
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission

    .. a new EU Commission which takes office on November 1st. Don't you see a teeny-weeny little flaw here?
    The Withdrawal Agreement can be passed minus the backstop by October 31st as the Brady amendment showed already has a Commons majority, then as Merkel suggested today the technical solution for the Irish border can be dealt with in the Political Declaration and future relationship which is not legally binding
    Brady amendment is history; merely a unicorn to enable the Tories to look like they have a proposal whilst ducking the hard issues.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    HYUFD said:

    Stupid question as it relies on Boris extending not trying to prorogue Parliament etc to ensure Brexit on 31st October as he will do
    You're reading something into the question that isn't there.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,221
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.
    Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'
    I am sure @Cyclefree can regale us with stories of utterly incompetent yet highly paid QCs.

    Edit - this one sprang to mind, although an historic example:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_Griffith-Jones
    As Cyclefree being a diehard Remainer is the Oracle of all wisdom rather than a compliance officer
    Hello: I am not a diehard Remainer, whatever "diehard" means. Nor am I or have I ever been a Compliance officer.

    Whether I'm an Oracle of wisdom I will leave to others.

    I can certainly regale you with lots of stories. But you'll need to be very nice indeed to me.
  • Options
    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,509

    Roger said:

    For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

    And why did they introduce the rule?.

    'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

    'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

    'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

    'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'
    THANK YOU. At last someone has said it. And people have the audacity to blame Brexit on successive Governments' so called 'euroskepticism', when actually they've been giving the EU cover for years by implementing its harmonisations as national policy.
  • Options
    StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    HYUFD said:

    Stupid question as it relies on Boris extending not trying to prorogue Parliament etc to ensure Brexit on 31st October as he will do
    What? Where does it say anything about extending?
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    dixiedean said:

    Looks like the Iranians have seized a British tanker. Thank goodness Boris will sort it out.

    Can't find that story. What's your source?
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,242
    FF43 said:

    FF43 said:

    Roger said:

    For anyone who missed this it's Johnson at his best. I saw it on the News last night. The rule was introduced by the British!

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-kipper-rant-utterly-18335542

    And why did they introduce the rule?.

    'the UK's Food Standards Agency producing an official guide on the hygiene of mail order food, in force since 2007. It notes that "perishable foods" are defined as those that are required by law, for food safety reasons, to be kept chilled or refrigerated.

    'Interestingly, it cites the applicable law as Regulation (EC) no. 852/2004, and in particular Article 4.3 which requires the compliance with temperature control requirements in order to maintain the cold chain. And, within that regulation is a requirement for national hygiene guides to be produced, conformity with which "must be taken into account when assessing compliance with legislation." We come full circle.

    'Thus, while the Commission spokesperson talks about "national rules" as if they were something separate, standing clear of Union law and entirely under the control of the Member State, they are actually an integrated part of a complex system which involves multiple agencies, trade associations and national bodies.

    'Yet, any rules or guides must be directed at implementing the EU's hygiene package and be compatible with it. Furthermore, they must be submitted to the Commission for approval before they apply. They are, therefore, determined by the framework of EU law, even if there is some flexibility afforded in the wording. Effectively, even "national rules" are EU mandated. The Commission can't simply walk away from this, trilling "it's local". That's not how the system works.'
    Requiring fresh food to be refrigerated isn't an obviously stupid rule. Is it really the outrage Johnson claims, if the EU is involved in setting a rule that the UK would have applied anyway?
    As the piece linked to suggests, though unaccountably left off the highlighted section.

    'In that, Johnson may be right on a technicality that the EU Law (in part) does require chilled kippers – for once, wrong-footing the Commission - but he is wholly wrong in criticising an essentially sensible measure.'

    Of course whatever shitey Brexit we end up with, if we want a piece of the EU kipper action we'll still have to comply with EU rules. That'll be completely different from the current oppressive situation where we have to comply with EU rules.
    I agree, but Johnson's outrage is about being forced to do things we decided to do anyway
    Why we are where we are in a nutshell.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,561
    edited July 2019
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.
    Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'
    I am sure @Cyclefree can regale us with stories of utterly incompetent yet highly paid QCs.

    Edit - this one sprang to mind, although an historic example:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_Griffith-Jones
    As Cyclefree being a diehard Remainer is the Oracle of all wisdom rather than a compliance officer
    Compliance officer?

    LMAO - Seriously, you've outdone yourself there.

    Like saying Michelangelo was an ok decorator.
  • Options
    dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 27,995
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looks like the Iranians have seized a British tanker. Thank goodness Boris will sort it out.

    Can't find that story. What's your source?
    BBC Radio news just now. Tanker left Emirates now wildly off course in Iranian waters. Presumably not defecting.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,334
    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.
    Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'
    I am sure @Cyclefree can regale us with stories of utterly incompetent yet highly paid QCs.

    Edit - this one sprang to mind, although an historic example:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_Griffith-Jones
    As Cyclefree being a diehard Remainer is the Oracle of all wisdom rather than a compliance officer
    Hello: I am not a diehard Remainer, whatever "diehard" means. Nor am I or have I ever been a Compliance officer.

    Whether I'm an Oracle of wisdom I will leave to others.

    I can certainly regale you with lots of stories. But you'll need to be very nice indeed to me.
    How much coffee would it take?
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,375
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.
    Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'
    Wasn’t he the one who stood up in the Commons and told his Tory colleagues they were legislators, not children, and needed to avoid the disaster of no deal?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117

    HYUFD said:

    Stupid question as it relies on Boris extending not trying to prorogue Parliament etc to ensure Brexit on 31st October as he will do
    You're reading something into the question that isn't there.
    Nope, if Boris is trying to prorogue Parliament to deliver Brexit and MPs block him most Leavers will still back him if he refuses to extend
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,561
    ydoethur said:

    Cyclefree said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.
    Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'
    I am sure @Cyclefree can regale us with stories of utterly incompetent yet highly paid QCs.

    Edit - this one sprang to mind, although an historic example:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mervyn_Griffith-Jones
    As Cyclefree being a diehard Remainer is the Oracle of all wisdom rather than a compliance officer
    Hello: I am not a diehard Remainer, whatever "diehard" means. Nor am I or have I ever been a Compliance officer.

    Whether I'm an Oracle of wisdom I will leave to others.

    I can certainly regale you with lots of stories. But you'll need to be very nice indeed to me.
    How much coffee would it take?
    A trip to a sushi bar will do it.
  • Options
    JackWJackW Posts: 14,787
    IanB2 said:

    BBC2: LibDem hustings followed by first night of the Proms #Fridaynightin

    I'm not sure @Morris_Dancer can stand the pace !!!!!!!!!
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,561
    ydoethur said:

    dixiedean said:

    Looks like the Iranians have seized a British tanker. Thank goodness Boris will sort it out.

    Can't find that story. What's your source?
    https://twitter.com/BBCBreaking/status/1152279249937715200
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,117
    edited July 2019
    IanB2 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    RH1992 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Scott_P said:
    Boris can't get away with 0 from 4 women in the top jobs. At least one of Mordaunt and Truss; more interesting would be both.
    Boris PM, Javid Chancellor, Raab Foreign Secretary, Patel or Mordaunt Home Secretary, Hunt Deputy PM, IDS Defence, Cleverly Party Chairman, Truss Business
    I can hear the European Commission howling with laughter now at the thought of Raab as Foreign Secretary. Raab is Grayling with intent.
    Raab is sharp and tough (Mordaunt also a contender) but Foreign Secretary is not leading on the negotiations with the EU, I understand Geoffrey Cox and Rees-Mogg will be added to the renegotiation and future relationship team, both heavyweight Brexiteers. Plus of course a new EU Commission
    There's something both delicious and incredibly dangerous in this, of people nowhere near the competence required put in charge of potentially mammothly intricate tasks. The results are bound to be patriotic bluster and failure on any objective terms, as with David Davis - but the stakes and timeframe make it all the more dangerous this time. It's all a bit reminiscent of an enjoyably bad horror movie with real life consequences, or something like the 1970s movie Rollerball.
    Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'
    Wasn’t he the one who stood up in the Commons and told his Tory colleagues they were legislators, not children, and needed to avoid the disaster of no deal?
    He voted for the Brady amendment and backed Leave and has not voted to try and block No Deal
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,119
    HYUFD said:

    Geoffrey Cox is one of the highest earning QCs in the country but because he is a Brexiteer diehard Remainers insist 'he lacks competence'

    He was sent to Brussels to renegotiate the backstop after the Brady amendment. What did he achieve?
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