politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Darroch shows he’s a true diplomat and resigns
Comments
-
It is the grassroots imcluding me who campaign and canvass day in and day out and weekends in all weathers for the party and they now want a leader they believe in ie Boris.Charles said:
😂IanB2 said:
It must be a cutthroat world amid the diehard councillors of Epping parish.Charles said:
It’s like he’s modelled his view of how politics works on the house of cardsBig_G_NorthWales said:
Your set response to a fellow conservative who criticise Boris is beyond contemptHYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
When the stakes are small...
So be as patronising as you want Charles but without the grassroots the party would be nothing and nobody would get elected anyway0 -
Meanwhile, another thread of polling showing how unhinged Leave supporters are:
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/11489279773060997140 -
I don’t think it’s a professional. It could be a politician (but I’m not sure what they gain - the leaks aren’t that embarrassing except to Darroch)rottenborough said:
The penalty for leaking the cables of a US ambassador will be very steep, I am assuming. They are looking at prison surely?Charles said:
No, he wasn’t. His position was untenable since the first moment that Trump made an issue of the leaks.Scott_P said:
Is that pinhead big enough for you?Charles said:Sacking would have been prostrating
Darroch wasn’t sacked.
Of course he was sacked
He was smart enough to realise that.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see him recognised in the honours list in January. Plus some sinecures somewhere over the next 12 months
Why would anyone (FO official/Spad etc) take such a risk?
There must have been a mighty reward involved or some overbearing reason.
Someone last night suggested the American - I had thought that a possibility. Trump demonstrates his power, tests the U.K. and distracts from whatever he needs to distract from (Epstein?)0 -
Give it a restHYUFD said:
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he didCharles said:
Stop this BS @HYUFDHYUFD said:
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.SouthamObserver said:
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.HYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party0 -
-
IndeedAlastairMeeks said:Meanwhile, another thread of polling showing how unhinged Leave supporters are:
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/11489279773060997140 -
One has to be careful following political tides as they always change and an individual can easily become stranded with no way back...Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is only Hyufd who has taken to labelling his fellow conservatives LD if they do not agree with his great hero Boris. He has also adopted a 'diehard' tag to remainersIanB2 said:
If “LD” has risen to the insult of choice amongst diehard Tories, the party must be making real progress toward breaking the two party system! The Corbynite equivalent is still to call party colleagues a “Tory”.HYUFD said:
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.SouthamObserver said:
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.HYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
He has become an extreme ERG disiciple influenced by another hero of his IDS0 -
-
I trust you are telling any voter who expresses any view other than no deal do or die that they should be voting LibDem....HYUFD said:
It is the grassroots imcluding me who campaign and canvass day in and day out and weekends in all weathers for the party and they now want a leader they believe in ie Boris.Charles said:
😂IanB2 said:
It must be a cutthroat world amid the diehard councillors of Epping parish.Charles said:
It’s like he’s modelled his view of how politics works on the house of cardsBig_G_NorthWales said:
Your set response to a fellow conservative who criticise Boris is beyond contemptHYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
When the stakes are small...
So be as patronising as you want Charles but without the grassroots the party would be nothing and nobody would get elected anyway0 -
Have all of them, free transfer (though we might take Stephen Lloyd)IanB2 said:
I would happily take all of those, although Dominic might struggle in the LibDems.HYUFD said:
Rory Stewart certainly and Dominic Grieve and Philip Lee and Justine Greening too on the backbencheswilliamglenn said:
Which Tory leadership candidates would you classify as Lib Dems on the same basis? Michael Gove?HYUFD said:Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
But it would be nicer if you would let us pick?0 -
Did Darroch not resign? He was leaving soon anyway. Makes sense to fall on your sword when security is compromised. I just hope they find whoever leaked it.Scott_P said:0 -
Wouldn’t it be good if at the announcement of the Lib Dem leadership result the curtain opens and ther sits our now 25 strong parliamentary party waiting to greet their new leader!IanB2 said:
I would happily take all of those, although Dominic might struggle in the LibDems.HYUFD said:
Rory Stewart certainly and Dominic Grieve and Philip Lee and Justine Greening too on the backbencheswilliamglenn said:
Which Tory leadership candidates would you classify as Lib Dems on the same basis? Michael Gove?HYUFD said:Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.
But it would be nicer if you would let us pick?0 -
You may be canvassing support but losing it in equal measureHYUFD said:
It is the grassroots imcluding me who campaign and canvass day in and day out and weekends in all weathers for the party and they now want a leader they believe in ie Boris.Charles said:
😂IanB2 said:
It must be a cutthroat world amid the diehard councillors of Epping parish.Charles said:
It’s like he’s modelled his view of how politics works on the house of cardsBig_G_NorthWales said:
Your set response to a fellow conservative who criticise Boris is beyond contemptHYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
When the stakes are small...
So be as patronising as you want Charles but without the grassroots the party would be nothing and nobody would get elected anyway0 -
Perhaps it's time to accept that long-term trends mean the UK *will* break up. Brexit is just a catalyst and stopping Brexit won't keep the UK together.AlastairMeeks said:Meanwhile, another thread of polling showing how unhinged Leave supporters are:
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/11489279773060997140 -
But you are trying to slam the door behind himHYUFD said:
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he didCharles said:
Stop this BS @HYUFDHYUFD said:
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.SouthamObserver said:
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.HYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
The essence of the Tory Party is that it embraces three tribes. That’s why it has been successful in the past. Every 80 years or so the zealots (usually the Ditchers) try to take over and there is a lengthy period in opposition
Don’t be part of that mistake0 -
Is the Times part of "the left" now?Brom said:
This is what the left have become. Scrawling weird connections walls like psychopaths. Cadwalladr has a lot to answer for.williamglenn said:0 -
HYUFD said:
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he didCharles said:
Stop this BS @HYUFDHYUFD said:
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.SouthamObserver said:
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.HYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
If voting for another party counts as leaving, your membership is down by 50% already.
When I was a LibDem councillor I had Tory members voting for me. My record was support from five people who had signed the Tory candidates’ nomination papers, two of whom had my poster in their window.0 -
-
I do not accept that for one minute but you have a long history of almost wishing it on uswilliamglenn said:
Perhaps it's time to accept that long-term trends mean the UK *will* break up. Brexit is just a catalyst and stopping Brexit won't keep the UK together.AlastairMeeks said:Meanwhile, another thread of polling showing how unhinged Leave supporters are:
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/11489279773060997140 -
I'm surprised it's only 49%.AlastairMeeks said:Meanwhile, another thread of polling showing how unhinged Leave supporters are:
https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/11489279773060997140 -
More details on the mania of Leavers here:
https://mailchi.mp/9d6e45eaf7b2/tories-and-brexit-party-should-work-together-to-secure-brexit-69-of-leave-voters-say0 -
How could she possibly know who else has seen or handled them?williamglenn said:1 -
Alan Duncan really sticking it to Boris on WATO. "Acting against the national interest" "insincere guff" "not defended his own country", etc,etc.
Maybe another name for the little list.0 -
My experience of Tory grassroots in an ultra marginal is that there's no love for Boris.0
-
-
If only he had thought of the right answer during the exam rather than on the bus on the way home....Scott_P said:3 -
The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.0
-
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148927556755841024
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148929945336516611
Another great British institution trashed on the altar of Brexit0 -
Even a fish wouldn't get caught if it kept its mouth shut.Scott_P said:
How could she possibly know who else has seen or handled them?williamglenn said:
Isabel Oakeshott has blabbed on sources before, so I hope that her source this time has some changes of underwear.0 -
"The soon-to-be former foreign office minister, Alan Duncan"dixiedean said:Alan Duncan really sticking it to Boris on WATO. "Acting against the national interest" "insincere guff" "not defended his own country", etc,etc.
Maybe another name for the little list.0 -
Occam's razor suggests the leak was from someone in our civil service. Not Trump or those old favourites the russians.Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0 -
It appears from the outside that the Tory party has ceased to be a One Nation Party. If the One Nation wing would support PR, a separate party in the long run would give them more influence than they currently have, given where the votes go in countries which have PR.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give it a restHYUFD said:
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he didCharles said:
Stop this BS @HYUFDHYUFD said:
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.SouthamObserver said:
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.HYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Some political figures, however, have always worked for whoever pays them the most and gives them the most power, so their opinions are entirely flexible: 'Good morning, how nice to see you. What views would you like today?' We seem to see that on PB.0 -
Indeed it's hard to see any alternative. Realistically it is like Alastair Campbell said when you are the story it is time to go.numbertwelve said:
Quite. There’s lots to dislike about Boris and I said last night that I thought his comments disloyal, but an ambassador whose confidential thoughts have been exposed is no longer a good ambassador. It would have been very difficult to see how he would have been able to stay in post, no matter the flag waving from some politicians.Philip_Thompson said:
Surely game was up when Trump chose to freeze him out? An Ambassador who is frozen out is not much of an Ambassador.SouthamObserver said:
It shouldn't have been leaked and we should investigate and punish whoever did it, but our diplomatic corps need to realise leaks are quite probable in the internet age. Shouldn't be, but are. Pandora's Box can't be closed.0 -
Deliberately missing the point again.HYUFD said:
What has Woody Johnson said negative about May or Khan? Nothing, he has been a model of diplomacy and a savvy ex businessmanOllyT said:
Perhaps we should freeze out the US Ambassador following the comments he has made quite publicly about our Prime Minister and the Mayor of London.Philip_Thompson said:
His tenure was ending soon anyway and Trunp had already frozen him out.rottenborough said:
This is an absolute disgrace.Scott_P said:
I hope all Tory members who are merrily voting for Boris can live with themselves.
Whoever leaked should be in jail but realistically the moment this was published he was doomed. He should have fallen on his sword days ago.
If you can't see that we are just giving in to an overgrown baby and bully to boot then you are entirely missing the point. This is a glimpse of our future after Brexit with Johnson playing Trump's poodle. Any trade deal will be what Trump decides it will be and if we argue he'll throw another tantrum
You have absolutely no idea what the US Ambassador says in his private communications.
If Trump can freeze out our Ambassador for expressing private (and by all accounts accurate) views of how the White House operates why should we not do the same. When Trump publicly attacks our PM and Mayor do you not think his Ambassador is doing the same.
The precedent has been set that anyone that wants an Ambassador removed simply has to leak private communications.0 -
Vicky went to prison in 2013AlastairMeeks said:
Even a fish wouldn't get caught if it kept its mouth shut.Scott_P said:
How could she possibly know who else has seen or handled them?williamglenn said:
Isabel Oakeshott has blabbed on sources before, so I hope that her source this time has some changes of underwear.0 -
-
What is a 'One Nation' Tory anyway? The term was originally coined by Disraeli who supported the Corn Laws and tariffs and strongly supported the British Empire with some paternalistic domestic policies. It is not just another term for diehard Remainersrural_voter said:
It appears from the outside that the Tory party has ceased to be a One Nation Party. If the One Nation wing would support PR, a separate party in the long run would give them more influence than they currently have, given where the votes go in countries which have PR.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give it a restHYUFD said:
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he didCharles said:
Stop this BS @HYUFDHYUFD said:
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.SouthamObserver said:
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.HYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Some political figures, however, have always worked for whoever pays them the most and gives them the most power, so their opinions are entirely flexible: 'Good morning, how nice to see you. What views would you like today?' We seem to see that on PB.0 -
So the future is no different to the past?OllyT said:
Perhaps we should freeze out the US Ambassador following the comments he has made quite publicly about our Prime Minister and the Mayor of London.Philip_Thompson said:
His tenure was ending soon anyway and Trunp had already frozen him out.rottenborough said:
This is an absolute disgrace.Scott_P said:
I hope all Tory members who are merrily voting for Boris can live with themselves.
Whoever leaked should be in jail but realistically the moment this was published he was doomed. He should have fallen on his sword days ago.
If you can't see that we are just giving in to an overgrown baby and bully to boot then you are entirely missing the point. This is a glimpse of our future after Brexit with Johnson playing Trump's poodle. Any trade deal will be what Trump decides it will be and if we argue he'll throw another tantrum
For those who are making contrasts with Love Actually it is worth remembering that scene was written due to complaints our PM was Bush's poodle. At least here we aren't talking about war.0 -
Agreed.Pulpstar said:
Occam's razor suggests the leak was from someone in our civil service. Not Trump or those old favourites the russians.Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0 -
Well the polling suggests Boris will win a landslide with his grassroots which is more than can be said for Jo Swinson with hersMikeSmithson said:My experience of Tory grassroots in an ultra marginal is that there's no love for Boris.
0 -
If the likes of Duncan, Burt etc decide to sit on the backbenches, Johnson may have the same issue that Corbyn did after all those resignations, of literally having to put anyone who will serve on the front-bench, no matter their expertise, nut-job factor or experience. One thing doing that in opposition, but right now in Government? Even for those not prepared to no-con on the Tory backbenches, having a rump who won't lift a finger to help Boris out could incapacitate him.0
-
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0 -
-
It isn't really. Suez was a one off adventure that many people thought was a mistake and was never repeated. Brexit is a state of continual subjugation.Scott_P said:0 -
If it's a civil servant, yes; but it's much more likely to have been a politician, so very little chance.tlg86 said:
I can't imagine too many people have access to such emails. Shouldn't be too difficult to find the culprit.Scott_P said:
They were secure and encrypted.not_on_fire said:Whoever failed to ensure communication between the Ambassador and HMG were not secure and encrypted should also be facing serious questions.
Then they are distributed to lots of people within HMG, one of whom gave them to a "journalist"0 -
Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.0
-
From 1965 to 1975 Heathites lost 3 out of 4 general elections, it took Thatcher to win the next 3 on the trot.Charles said:
But you are trying to slam the door behind himHYUFD said:
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he didCharles said:
Stop this BS @HYUFDHYUFD said:
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.SouthamObserver said:
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.HYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
The essence of the Tory Party is that it embraces three tribes. That’s why it has been successful in the past. Every 80 years or so the zealots (usually the Ditchers) try to take over and there is a lengthy period in opposition
Don’t be part of that mistake
Given the majority of the country's voters and the vast majority of Tories voted Leave it is failing to respect that decision and implement it Deal or No Deal that will really cost the Tories0 -
The leak was motivated by Brexit? In any case, I hope the leaker is punished to the full extent of the law.Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148927556755841024
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148929945336516611
Another great British institution trashed on the altar of Brexit0 -
Hardly. I'm undecided who to vote for in the leadership but I'd be delighted with either candidate. Not sure many Tories could say the same in their contest.HYUFD said:
Well the polling suggests Boris will win a landslide with his grassroots which is more than can be said for Jo Swinson with hersMikeSmithson said:My experience of Tory grassroots in an ultra marginal is that there's no love for Boris.
1 -
-
Trump didn't freeze him out for private communications he froze him only when the communications became public.OllyT said:
Deliberately missing the point again.HYUFD said:
What has Woody Johnson said negative about May or Khan? Nothing, he has been a model of diplomacy and a savvy ex businessmanOllyT said:
Perhaps we should freeze out the US Ambassador following the comments he has made quite publicly about our Prime Minister and the Mayor of London.Philip_Thompson said:
His tenure was ending soon anyway and Trunp had already frozen him out.rottenborough said:
This is an absolute disgrace.Scott_P said:
I hope all Tory members who are merrily voting for Boris can live with themselves.
Whoever leaked should be in jail but realistically the moment this was published he was doomed. He should have fallen on his sword days ago.
If you can't see that we are just giving in to an overgrown baby and bully to boot then you are entirely missing the point. This is a glimpse of our future after Brexit with Johnson playing Trump's poodle. Any trade deal will be what Trump decides it will be and if we argue he'll throw another tantrum
You have absolutely no idea what the US Ambassador says in his private communications.
If Trump can freeze out our Ambassador for expressing private (and by all accounts accurate) views of how the White House operates why should we not do the same. When Trump publicly attacks our PM and Mayor do you not think his Ambassador is doing the same.
The precedent has been set that anyone that wants an Ambassador removed simply has to leak private communications.
The precedence is not new. Leaks are old as time and have been extremely common post Wikileaks.0 -
That diagram is as appalling as all of the people on it.williamglenn said:0 -
I have known near Powellites voting LD at local elections to mend potholes etc.IanB2 said:HYUFD said:
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he didCharles said:
Stop this BS @HYUFDHYUFD said:
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.SouthamObserver said:
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.HYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
If voting for another party counts as leaving, your membership is down by 50% already.
When I was a LibDem councillor I had Tory members voting for me. My record was support from five people who had signed the Tory candidates’ nomination papers, two of whom had my poster in their window.
That is rather different to stating openly you will vote for another party at a general election and opposing openly implementation of such a key party policy as Brexit0 -
Official secrets act? It was surely marked secret/top secret.AndyJS said:
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0 -
It may depend who did it. It seems likely that someone or other has either committed misconduct in public office or has procured misconduct in public office.AndyJS said:
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0 -
Almost certainly a breach of the Official Secrets Act surely?AndyJS said:
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0 -
Gavin Williamson - what has he been up to lately?0
-
What evidence is there that Brexit has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with any of this?Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148927556755841024
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148929945336516611
Another great British institution trashed on the altar of Brexit2 -
Hypothetical polling based on Boris promising things he can't deliver.HYUFD said:
Well the polling suggests Boris will win a landslide with his grassroots which is more than can be said for Jo Swinson with hersMikeSmithson said:My experience of Tory grassroots in an ultra marginal is that there's no love for Boris.
0 -
A maximum of fourteen years, and sentences can be consecutive for multiple breaches.RobD said:
Official secrets act? It was surely marked secret/top secret.AndyJS said:
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0 -
Soon we will have Remainers retconning history to say Iraq was due to Brexit.1
-
I think it was Alan Duncan making a statement in Parliament on Monday, I'm not 100% sure though, anyway whoever it was used the word "classified" to describe the communications. So assuming that statement is factual it is indeed a criminal offence.AndyJS said:
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
-1 -
Err...Philip_Thompson said:
What evidence is there that Brexit has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with any of this?Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148927556755841024
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148929945336516611
Another great British institution trashed on the altar of Brexit
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/11482984961408204800 -
Maximum sentence for that particular offence is life imprisonment, by the way. Doubt it'd be near that level, but it is plainly a serious one and, if it ever comes to sentencing, the defendant would be well advised to pack a toothbrush and a very long book.AlastairMeeks said:
It may depend who did it. It seems likely that someone or other has either committed misconduct in public office or has procured misconduct in public office.AndyJS said:
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0 -
There's a year between challenges, is there also a year between initial election and the first challenge or can 15% of MPs have a run at him straight away?TGOHF said:
Boris is going to be on a 100 day trial appointment until 1st November.dixiedean said:Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
If we aren't out of the EU then he will be on the way out.0 -
The problem with Whitehall is 95% are Remainers who see Brexit as a damage limitation exercise at best, as did May.Scott_P said:
At least Boris actually believes in it and is optimistic about Brexit0 -
Could Oakeshott be compelled to release her source under oath ?0
-
Cui bono in your view?Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0 -
What’s your evidence for your op ed at the end?Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148927556755841024
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148929945336516611
Another great British institution trashed on the altar of Brexit0 -
I have to feel sorry for Darroch: he has been let down by his own side.
I've repeatedly said that I can't vote for a Conservative Party led by Boris, and have given a number of reasons. His handling of this situation is just another brick in a mighty wall of evidence.
I won't be alone.
(Cue so-called 'Conservatives' saying: "We don't need your vote!")0 -
I don’t think you can exclude them. I work on the assumption that the Russians, Chinese, Americans and probably the French have access to pretty much every secret government communicationPulpstar said:
Occam's razor suggests the leak was from someone in our civil service. Not Trump or those old favourites the russians.Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0 -
What do you think about Michael Gove's, and now Liam Fox's, less 'optimistic' views about Brexit?HYUFD said:The problem with Whitehall is 95% are Remainers who see Brexit as a damage limitation exercise at best, as did May.
0 -
-
-
If you leak diplomatic correspondence., you are "guilty of the worst breach of trust in our service" . Really? I would be more bothered about civil servants whose actions led to people not getting their benefit payments and not having enough money to eat, for exampleScott_P said:https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148927556755841024
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148929945336516611
Another great British institution trashed on the altar of Brexit0 -
It wont come from this oneJosiasJessop said:I have to feel sorry for Darroch: he has been let down by his own side.
I've repeatedly said that I can't vote for a Conservative Party led by Boris, and have given a number of reasons. His handling of this situation is just another brick in a mighty wall of evidence.
I won't be alone.
(Cue so-called 'Conservatives' saying: "We don't need your vote!")0 -
We can't leave October 31. There is no majority for it.TGOHF said:
Boris is going to be on a 100 day trial appointment until 1st November.dixiedean said:Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
If we aren't out of the EU then he will be on the way out.
If Parliament is prorogued there will be no laws in place to implement it.
Boris ignores these facts by conjuring up entirely imaginary re-negotiations and implementation periods.
Hope the 1922 postman is doing some weight training ready for November 1.0 -
The honeymoon will be over and the funeral will be in the diary.edmundintokyo said:
There's a year between challenges, is there also a year between initial election and the first challenge or can 15% of MPs have a run at him straight away?TGOHF said:
Boris is going to be on a 100 day trial appointment until 1st November.dixiedean said:Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
If we aren't out of the EU then he will be on the way out.
0 -
There's an interesting question whether Isabel Oakeshott herself might have committed the procuring offence.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Maximum sentence for that particular offence is life imprisonment, by the way. Doubt it'd be near that level, but it is plainly a serious one and, if it ever comes to sentencing, the defendant would be well advised to pack a toothbrush and a very long book.AlastairMeeks said:
It may depend who did it. It seems likely that someone or other has either committed misconduct in public office or has procured misconduct in public office.AndyJS said:
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0 -
BBC Two having a hustings debate between Lib Dem candidates on Friday July 19 - bit late is it not0
-
This might helpHYUFD said:
What is a 'One Nation' Tory anyway? The term was originally coined by Disraeli who supported the Corn Laws and tariffs and strongly supported the British Empire with some paternalistic domestic policies. It is not just another term for diehard Remainersrural_voter said:
It appears from the outside that the Tory party has ceased to be a One Nation Party. If the One Nation wing would support PR, a separate party in the long run would give them more influence than they currently have, given where the votes go in countries which have PR.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give it a restHYUFD said:
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he didCharles said:
Stop this BS @HYUFDHYUFD said:
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.SouthamObserver said:
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.HYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Some political figures, however, have always worked for whoever pays them the most and gives them the most power, so their opinions are entirely flexible: 'Good morning, how nice to see you. What views would you like today?' We seem to see that on PB.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_(novel)
It’s essentially Disraeli’s move to reposition his party from the Ultras to the Whiggish tradition of paternalism and philanthropy0 -
What's that got to do with the leaker?williamglenn said:
Err...Philip_Thompson said:
What evidence is there that Brexit has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with any of this?Scott_P said:https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148927556755841024
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148929945336516611
Another great British institution trashed on the altar of Brexit
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/11482984961408204800 -
-
I'd be hesitant to convict a journalist. It's the leaker that should be made to regret ever waking up that fateful morning that they leaked it.AlastairMeeks said:
There's an interesting question whether Isabel Oakeshott herself might have committed the procuring offence.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Maximum sentence for that particular offence is life imprisonment, by the way. Doubt it'd be near that level, but it is plainly a serious one and, if it ever comes to sentencing, the defendant would be well advised to pack a toothbrush and a very long book.AlastairMeeks said:
It may depend who did it. It seems likely that someone or other has either committed misconduct in public office or has procured misconduct in public office.AndyJS said:
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0 -
Someone on here said there was no barrier to an instant challenge a few days ago. Can't remember who it was though.edmundintokyo said:
There's a year between challenges, is there also a year between initial election and the first challenge or can 15% of MPs have a run at him straight away?TGOHF said:
Boris is going to be on a 100 day trial appointment until 1st November.dixiedean said:Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
If we aren't out of the EU then he will be on the way out.
Which is interesting, as he could have 15% the day after he wins!0 -
Boris' domestic message is not dissimilar to Disraeli's, he is just not an EUphileCharles said:
This might helpHYUFD said:
What is a 'One Nation' Tory anyway? The term was originally coined by Disraeli who supported the Corn Laws and tariffs and strongly supported the British Empire with some paternalistic domestic policies. It is not just another term for diehard Remainersrural_voter said:
It appears from the outside that the Tory party has ceased to be a One Nation Party. If the One Nation wing would support PR, a separate party in the long run would give them more influence than they currently have, given where the votes go in countries which have PR.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Give it a restHYUFD said:
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he didCharles said:
Stop this BS @HYUFDHYUFD said:
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.SouthamObserver said:
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.HYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
Some political figures, however, have always worked for whoever pays them the most and gives them the most power, so their opinions are entirely flexible: 'Good morning, how nice to see you. What views would you like today?' We seem to see that on PB.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sybil_(novel)
It’s essentially Disraeli’s move to reposition his party from the Ultras to the Whiggish tradition of paternalism and philanthropy0 -
So they were in power for 40% of that time?HYUFD said:
From 1965 to 1975 Heathites lost 3 out of 4 general elections, it took Thatcher to win the next 3 on the trot.Charles said:
But you are trying to slam the door behind himHYUFD said:
Richard Navabi has already said he will vote LD if Boris does No Deal as a last resort to.implement Brexit, I did not open the way to leaving the party, he didCharles said:
Stop this BS @HYUFDHYUFD said:
Richard is now a LD whose main priority is refusing to implement the Brexit vote the majority voted for.SouthamObserver said:
Richard is a patriot. You support a football team.HYUFD said:
Well as you will be voting LD if Boris wins anyway will he really be that bothered if you think his premiership is awful?Richard_Nabavi said:It's probably fair to say that Sir Kim's position had become untenable even without Boris and others failing to give him the support he deserves and should have expected. However, I'm sure it's also the case that the timing - which makes it look as though a couple of tweets from Trump are enough to cause the UK to jump to attention and do whatever he says - is the fault of Boris Johnson.
This affair, the brain-dead commitment to October 31st, and the quite extraordinary refusal to rule out treating parliament in the manner of Charles 1st, should be enough to dash any lingering hopes that Boris might not be quite as unsuitable to be PM as he seemed. Looks like he'll be even worse than one would have feared.
A prospective candidate should not be spending their time trying to chase voters away from the party
The essence of the Tory Party is that it embraces three tribes. That’s why it has been successful in the past. Every 80 years or so the zealots (usually the Ditchers) try to take over and there is a lengthy period in opposition
Don’t be part of that mistake
Given the majority of the country's voters and the vast majority of Tories voted Leave it is failing to respect that decision and implement it Deal or No Deal that will really cost the Tories
And from 1951-1964. Shall we agree that 17/24 years is not that bad a result?
Thatcher was a Radical, not an Ultra. The support of the likes of Whitelaw and Hailsham was a key part of her coalition.0 -
No one is going to write immediately, he would still win the vote.TGOHF said:
The honeymoon will be over and the funeral will be in the diary.edmundintokyo said:
There's a year between challenges, is there also a year between initial election and the first challenge or can 15% of MPs have a run at him straight away?TGOHF said:
Boris is going to be on a 100 day trial appointment until 1st November.dixiedean said:Boris does not seem to be spreading a light-hearted optimism around a substantial section of the Tory Party.
If we aren't out of the EU then he will be on the way out.
The more likely issue is a VoNC...0 -
The leaking of diplomatic correspondence (or its interception) can lead to war. The Zimmermann Telegram being a classic example.TheKitchenCabinet said:
If you leak diplomatic correspondence., you are "guilty of the worst breach of trust in our service" . Really? I would be more bothered about civil servants whose actions led to people not getting their benefit payments and not having enough money to eat, for exampleScott_P said:https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148927556755841024
https://twitter.com/tompeck/status/1148929945336516611
Another great British institution trashed on the altar of Brexit
Countries need to have their secrets, and they need to be able to talk secretly internally as well as externally. This leaking by an internal source is a massive breach of trust, and one whose consequences may be uncertain for some time.0 -
That rather depends what the journalist had done.RobD said:
I'd be hesitant to convict a journalist. It's the leaker that should be made to regret ever waking up that fateful morning that they leaked it.AlastairMeeks said:
There's an interesting question whether Isabel Oakeshott herself might have committed the procuring offence.SirNorfolkPassmore said:
Maximum sentence for that particular offence is life imprisonment, by the way. Doubt it'd be near that level, but it is plainly a serious one and, if it ever comes to sentencing, the defendant would be well advised to pack a toothbrush and a very long book.AlastairMeeks said:
It may depend who did it. It seems likely that someone or other has either committed misconduct in public office or has procured misconduct in public office.AndyJS said:
Is it a criminal offence to leak information like this?Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0 -
Deleted coz I don't understand block quotes...0
-
Both opposed Boris, neither will play a big part in his Government.williamglenn said:
What do you think about Michael Gove's, and now Liam Fox's, less 'optimistic' views about Brexit?HYUFD said:The problem with Whitehall is 95% are Remainers who see Brexit as a damage limitation exercise at best, as did May.
However they still backed Brexit and still do0 -
That's more like it. It must be the French.Charles said:
I don’t think you can exclude them. I work on the assumption that the Russians, Chinese, Americans and probably the French have access to pretty much every secret government communicationPulpstar said:
Occam's razor suggests the leak was from someone in our civil service. Not Trump or those old favourites the russians.Philip_Thompson said:The idea being propagated by Remainers especially that Trump or an ally of Trump was behind the leak is utterly absurd. The leak was extremely embarrassing for Trump which is why he was so furious.
0
