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It is rather strange that VAT and Excise are caught up in that set of rules when they are already separate on each side of the border.Sean_F said:
But it won't affect the important stuff, like gay marriage.TOPPING said:
yebbut there are bits of the single market that NI would be caught by.Richard_Nabavi said:
This a bit of the jigsaw I don't understand. We have a whole-UK backstop, thanks to the negotiating prowess of Theresa May and Olly Robbins. You'd have thought that would be exactly what the DUP would want.TOPPING said:@Richard_Nabavi
this also depends upon the level of capitulation by the ERG. Add in a whole-UK backstop for example in some kind of side-letter or addendum and the DUP climb on board
...
"In NI only, specific additional EU legislation will continue to apply in areas such as VAT and excise, product standards for goods, agriculture (including state aid), the environment, and electricity markets, certain technical standards relating to goods and the EU’s Customs Code."0 -
When it was inroduced I didntBenpointer said:
Don't vote Tory then.Alanbrooke said:
This is simply taxing people twice for the same service. I take the view young people starting out in life need a break before they can accumulate some capital. If you want to buy a house or start a family having extra debt shoved on you means you have to put these off. Thats not healthy for the UK in the long run.Andy_Cooke said:
Like we "fine" people for working (income tax)?Alanbrooke said:
oh a bit of poetic licence Mr CookeAndy_Cooke said:
My eldest and her partner were the first to go through under the new regime and they're fine with it.Alanbrooke said:
If youre a young person who has just been tucked up with £60k of debt with very little to show for it are you going to thank the LDs for stitching you up ?Benpointer said:
Correct. But if you're a Tory Remainer in Devon, are you only going to blame the LDs for fees, and let that dictate your vote?Alanbrooke said:
I take you havent been mugged by Universities of late.Benpointer said:
Yes they could do very well, especially with a new leader.Dadge said:
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.AndyJS said:
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.WhisperingOracle said:https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
Student fees seems like a long time ago now.
If youre a parent who doesnt want to see your kids sold to the modern version of indentured labour are you going to thank the LDs for that large hole your savings ?
They do note "They should just have called it a graduate tax, shouldn't they?"
Anyway - "indentured labour"? Seriously?
"If you earn under the average income as a graduate, it's free. You only pay if you earn over the average, and that's only a proportion of your income over the average"
---"Why, that's indentured labour!"
but yes it is a graduate tax and we are in the daft position of fining people for improving the national value of human capital. At a time were all saying we need a knowledge based workforce, we're disincentivising knowledge.
Or we "fine" companies for being successful (corporation tax)?
Or we "fine" anyone who provides goods or services (VAT)?
Lots of disincentivising going on there.0 -
If the mix of parties and MP's were different, that might not matter. Or too much. A we've not don so well with a single-minded, tin-eared PM, have we?Sean_F said:
The problem is that a general election would likely produce another hung Parliament.AndyJS said:"The Tory Brexiter John Baron has said he thinks a general election is becoming more likely. He explained:
A snap general election is becoming more likely. Whatever the outcome of the votes on Wednesday, the numbers inside the current remain-dominated House of Commons will not change.
It may be that an election is necessary to redress the balance in favour of MPs willing to implement the referendum result, for history suggests it is unwise for any parliament to distance itself from the people. The events of the next few weeks will be critical."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2019/mar/26/brexit-government-may-ignore-result-of-indicative-votes-process-says-hancock-live-news0 -
Pengelly might lose her seat judging by the petition.AnotherEngineer said:
They have less to lose. They won't lose their seats, they won't split their party and they won't lose influence unless there is a general election, which they won't vote for.TGOHF said:
I see no sign of the DUP getting on board - it's not nearly close enough to midnight - they have bigger cajones than the ERG.Slackbladder said:
Yep, it's probably too late. If the dup get on board maybe, but without them 0% chanceTGOHF said:
I suspect it will still fail at the third hurdle.Slackbladder said:
It may well have sharpened peoples minds....TGOHF said:Would be amusing if the PV march and petition's impact was for Brexit to go ahead.
even with them there could be enough Hard-core ERGers, and enough anti-leave MPs to make the difference0 -
Yes, I agree with that. So does Jezza I think.Barnesian said:
We have a progressive tax system. The more you earn the more you pay as a percentage of income. Surely this should cover graduates earning more than most? We don't need a separate graduate tax. The top rates of income tax should be raised and some of it be used to finance universities.Andy_Cooke said:
My eldest and her partner were the first to go through under the new regime and they're fine with it.Alanbrooke said:
If youre a young person who has just been tucked up with £60k of debt with very little to show for it are you going to thank the LDs for stitching you up ?Benpointer said:
Correct. But if you're a Tory Remainer in Devon, are you only going to blame the LDs for fees, and let that dictate your vote?Alanbrooke said:
I take you havent been mugged by Universities of late.Benpointer said:
Yes they could do very well, especially with a new leader.Dadge said:
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.AndyJS said:
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.WhisperingOracle said:https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
Student fees seems like a long time ago now.
If youre a parent who doesnt want to see your kids sold to the modern version of indentured labour are you going to thank the LDs for that large hole your savings ?
They do note "They should just have called it a graduate tax, shouldn't they?"
Anyway - "indentured labour"? Seriously?
"If you earn under the average income as a graduate, it's free. You only pay if you earn over the average, and that's only a proportion of your income over the average"
---"Why, that's indentured labour!"0 -
"An anonymous Labour MP has written in the Times about the Brexit process.
They write: "I'm a Labour MP who voted remain, representing a constituency who voted heavily to leave. I'm torn in two.
"I want to be accountable, I want to be involved but I sit uselessly and helplessly trapped in a Commons that is falling to pieces at a time of national crisis.
"I'm one of the 650. We'll all get the blame when the ship sinks, but in truth you might as well have put a dead cat in there instead of me; it would have had as much of a role as I've had in the Brexit discussions.""
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-476964090 -
Or abortion?Sean_F said:
But it won't affect the important stuff, like gay marriage.TOPPING said:
yebbut there are bits of the single market that NI would be caught by.Richard_Nabavi said:
This a bit of the jigsaw I don't understand. We have a whole-UK backstop, thanks to the negotiating prowess of Theresa May and Olly Robbins. You'd have thought that would be exactly what the DUP would want.TOPPING said:@Richard_Nabavi
this also depends upon the level of capitulation by the ERG. Add in a whole-UK backstop for example in some kind of side-letter or addendum and the DUP climb on board
...
"In NI only, specific additional EU legislation will continue to apply in areas such as VAT and excise, product standards for goods, agriculture (including state aid), the environment, and electricity markets, certain technical standards relating to goods and the EU’s Customs Code."0 -
The point is that the size of the petition and the march has made lots of headlines and is helping frame the narrative in a critical week for Brexit. I'm not sure the detail is terribly relevant right now.Sean_F said:
A lot of urban constituencies will have large numbers of EU nationals who will have signed.Anorak said:
That's "percentage of constituents" - which I assume is population, rather than those eligible to vote. Given the ratio of constituents to voters will be largely the same (outliers with large immigrant populations excepted) then I think the message remains the same.AndyJS said:
It's probably better to look at the percentage of the electorate figures rather than population. Personally I don't think the numbers signing this petition are an indication that Remain would win another referendum. The highest figures are in precisely the areas that voted overwhelmingly Remain at the referendum.Anorak said:Bristol West and Brighton Pavillion leading the fray in the Revoke vote, the former passing 25%. Amazing turnout for an online petition.
Hartlepool is on 2.8%...
I'd *guess* 25% of constituents = 40% of the electorate0 -
What price would people have that the next PM is also the next Conservative leader - on day one as PM?
I wonder whether 5.3 might be value for TM's exit date as Tory leader being between July & September?
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.125589838
NB Tory conference is 29th Sept - 2nd Oct.0 -
I can see why you became a Corbynite now.Alanbrooke said:
When it was introduced I didntBenpointer said:
Don't vote Tory then.Alanbrooke said:
This is simply taxing people twice for the same service. I take the view young people starting out in life need a break before they can accumulate some capital. If you want to buy a house or start a family having extra debt shoved on you means you have to put these off. Thats not healthy for the UK in the long run.Andy_Cooke said:
Like we "fine" people for working (income tax)?Alanbrooke said:
oh a bit of poetic licence Mr CookeAndy_Cooke said:
My eldest and her partner were the first to go through under the new regime and they're fine with it.Alanbrooke said:
If youre a young person who has just been tucked up with £60k of debt with very little to show for it are you going to thank the LDs for stitching you up ?Benpointer said:
Correct. But if you're a Tory Remainer in Devon, are you only going to blame the LDs for fees, and let that dictate your vote?Alanbrooke said:
I take you havent been mugged by Universities of late.Benpointer said:
Yes they could do very well, especially with a new leader.Dadge said:
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.AndyJS said:
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.WhisperingOracle said:
Student fees seems like a long time ago now.
If youre a parent who doesnt want to see your kids sold to the modern version of indentured labour are you going to thank the LDs for that large hole your savings ?
They do note "They should just have called it a graduate tax, shouldn't they?"
Anyway - "indentured labour"? Seriously?
"If you earn under the average income as a graduate, it's free. You only pay if you earn over the average, and that's only a proportion of your income over the average"
---"Why, that's indentured labour!"
but yes it is a graduate tax and we are in the daft position of fining people for improving the national value of human capital. At a time were all saying we need a knowledge based workforce, we're disincentivising knowledge.
Or we "fine" companies for being successful (corporation tax)?
Or we "fine" anyone who provides goods or services (VAT)?
Lots of disincentivising going on there.
0 -
Acton Central might be another - a super marginal turned safe (Corbynista) Lab by Brexit. Plenty of Cons held their noses on the assumption Lab couldn't win the GE.AlastairMeeks said:
Do you know, I think it might be.Pulpstar said:
Is it a seat where Chuka could run, and win ?AlastairMeeks said:
If I were Mark Field I would be crapping myself at the figure for Cities of London & Westminster. More people have signed the revoke petition than voted for him. He's going to face a very serious challenge at the next election whenever it comes.AndyJS said:
Indeed. Also, it looks like Cities of London and Westminster is about to overtake Hornsey & Wood Green as the seat with highest percentage of the electorate signing the petition.WhisperingOracle said:
Yes, as I mentioned on Saturday I saw multiple placards at the march from Devon.AndyJS said:
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.WhisperingOracle said:https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.0 -
Maybe, but it was viewed as a 4 way split the last time, the nat\unionist vote will still just roll out and vote triballyPulpstar said:
Pengelly might lose her seat judging by the petition.AnotherEngineer said:
They have less to lose. They won't lose their seats, they won't split their party and they won't lose influence unless there is a general election, which they won't vote for.TGOHF said:
I see no sign of the DUP getting on board - it's not nearly close enough to midnight - they have bigger cajones than the ERG.Slackbladder said:
Yep, it's probably too late. If the dup get on board maybe, but without them 0% chanceTGOHF said:
I suspect it will still fail at the third hurdle.Slackbladder said:
It may well have sharpened peoples minds....TGOHF said:Would be amusing if the PV march and petition's impact was for Brexit to go ahead.
even with them there could be enough Hard-core ERGers, and enough anti-leave MPs to make the difference0 -
I'm sure Corbyn would give him a free ru... OhAlastairMeeks said:
Do you know, I think it might be.Pulpstar said:
Is it a seat where Chuka could run, and win ?AlastairMeeks said:
If I were Mark Field I would be crapping myself at the figure for Cities of London & Westminster. More people have signed the revoke petition than voted for him. He's going to face a very serious challenge at the next election whenever it comes.AndyJS said:
Indeed. Also, it looks like Cities of London and Westminster is about to overtake Hornsey & Wood Green as the seat with highest percentage of the electorate signing the petition.WhisperingOracle said:
Yes, as I mentioned on Saturday I saw multiple placards at the march from Devon.AndyJS said:
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.WhisperingOracle said:https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
0 -
Yes, I'd already spotted that one (when it was at 7.0). 5.3 still good value, I think.Tissue_Price said:What price would people have that the next PM is also the next Conservative leader - on day one as PM?
I wonder whether 5.3 might be value for TM's exit date as Tory leader being between July & September?
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.125589838
NB Tory conference is 29th Sept - 2nd Oct.0 -
Ive posted many times that Corbyn is closer to what motivates people than the Tories. the Tories if they wish to win an election actually need some policiesBenpointer said:
I can see why you became a Corbynite now.Alanbrooke said:
When it was introduced I didntBenpointer said:
Don't vote Tory then.Alanbrooke said:
This is simply taxing people twiceun.Andy_Cooke said:
Like we "fine" people for working (income tax)?Alanbrooke said:
oh a bit of poetic licence Mr CookeAndy_Cooke said:
My eldest and her partner were the first to go through under the new regime and they're fine with it.Alanbrooke said:
If youre a young person who has just been tucked up with £60k of debt with very little to show for it are you going to thank the LDs for stitching you up ?Benpointer said:
Correct. But if you're a Tory Remainer in Devon, are you only going to blame the LDs for fees, and let that dictate your vote?Alanbrooke said:
I take you havent been mugged by Universities of late.Benpointer said:
Yes they could do very well, especially with a new leader.Dadge said:
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.AndyJS said:
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.WhisperingOracle said:
Student fees seems like a long time ago now.
If youre a parent who doesnt want to see your kids sold to the modern version of indentured labour are you going to thank the LDs for that large hole your savings ?
They do note "They should just have called it a graduate tax, shouldn't they?"
Anyway - "indentured labour"? Seriously?
"If you earn under the average income as a graduate, it's free. You only pay if you earn over the average, and that's only a proportion of your income over the average"
---"Why, that's indentured labour!"
but yes it is a graduate tax and we knowledge.
Or we "fine" companies for being successful (corporation tax)?
Or we "fine" anyone who provides goods or services (VAT)?
Lots of disincentivising going on there.0 -
I doubt if many of her own voters signed it.Pulpstar said:
Pengelly might lose her seat judging by the petition.AnotherEngineer said:
They have less to lose. They won't lose their seats, they won't split their party and they won't lose influence unless there is a general election, which they won't vote for.TGOHF said:
I see no sign of the DUP getting on board - it's not nearly close enough to midnight - they have bigger cajones than the ERG.Slackbladder said:
Yep, it's probably too late. If the dup get on board maybe, but without them 0% chanceTGOHF said:
I suspect it will still fail at the third hurdle.Slackbladder said:
It may well have sharpened peoples minds....TGOHF said:Would be amusing if the PV march and petition's impact was for Brexit to go ahead.
even with them there could be enough Hard-core ERGers, and enough anti-leave MPs to make the difference
If loads of nationalist switched behind the Alliance candidate, she would lose, but I think that both SDLP and SF want to win this seat.0 -
TGOHF said:
Would be amusing if the PV march and petition's impact was for Brexit to go ahead.
I think what it is doing is strengthening resolve against an ERG Brexit (or perhaps I should say ERG's Brexit stance last week given that it looks like it could change).
A lot of remainers could live with May's deal or Common Market 2 or some sort of soft Brexit. It is those trying to manipulate us into a No Deal that are fuelling the petition/march activism.0 -
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A dead cat would provide a better contribution to the debate than most MP's.AndyJS said:"An anonymous Labour MP has written in the Times about the Brexit process.
They write: "I'm a Labour MP who voted remain, representing a constituency who voted heavily to leave. I'm torn in two.
"I want to be accountable, I want to be involved but I sit uselessly and helplessly trapped in a Commons that is falling to pieces at a time of national crisis.
"I'm one of the 650. We'll all get the blame when the ship sinks, but in truth you might as well have put a dead cat in there instead of me; it would have had as much of a role as I've had in the Brexit discussions.""
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-476964090 -
Yes, this one.Richard_Nabavi said:3. So perhaps this points to an scenario where we ratify the WA, avoid the immediate cliff-edge, and then hold a GE to figure out what to try to do next. That would effectively nullify the 'indicative vote' of the current parliament, and replace it with... what? It's hard to see the Conservative Party campaigning on a platform of a softer Brexit than Theresa May was trying to implement. Labour probably would, but on current polling don't look likely to get a mandate to implement it - another hung parliament, and a repeat of the current squabbles, looks likely.
GE in Sept/Oct post Leave. Cons (Canada+) vs Lab (Norway+).
Cons under Gove or Hunt. They win handsomely.
As a Corbynista (sort of) I really hope it does not pan out like this, but I fear it will.0 -
Still, you have to laugh. The Commons takes control of Brexit - and then can't decide what to do with it.0
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Tide might be swinging against the EU with young people soon..
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=article 13&src=tyah0 -
I cannot say I feel a great deal of sympathy. I do not belittle the job before them, and the minimal role of many of them on the larger aspects, nor even the pressures of party on what they are expected to do, but being an MP is not meant to be easy in a time of crisis, and every single one of them asked to take on their share of the responsibility for governing this nation. Breaking party lines, approving something previously uncontemplatable, putting it back to the people, and so on and so on, these options will put a lot of pressure on them. But none of them are insurmountable if they grow up and decide something, and hopfully MPs will start doing that soon.AndyJS said:"An anonymous Labour MP has written in the Times about the Brexit process.
They write: "I'm a Labour MP who voted remain, representing a constituency who voted heavily to leave. I'm torn in two.
"I want to be accountable, I want to be involved but I sit uselessly and helplessly trapped in a Commons that is falling to pieces at a time of national crisis.
"I'm one of the 650. We'll all get the blame when the ship sinks, but in truth you might as well have put a dead cat in there instead of me; it would have had as much of a role as I've had in the Brexit discussions.""
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-476964090 -
I hadn't got you down as a Corbynite given what you post here, I can only conclude you must be absolubtely loaded in order to afford his nonsense.kinabalu said:
Yes, this one.Richard_Nabavi said:3. So perhaps this points to an scenario where we ratify the WA, avoid the immediate cliff-edge, and then hold a GE to figure out what to try to do next. That would effectively nullify the 'indicative vote' of the current parliament, and replace it with... what? It's hard to see the Conservative Party campaigning on a platform of a softer Brexit than Theresa May was trying to implement. Labour probably would, but on current polling don't look likely to get a mandate to implement it - another hung parliament, and a repeat of the current squabbles, looks likely.
GE in Sept/Oct post Leave. Cons (Canada+) vs Lab (Norway+).
Cons under Gove or Hunt. They win handsomely.
As a Corbynista (sort of) I really hope it does not pan out like this, but I fear it will.0 -
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0
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It'll move toward Even Money when June starts to run out of time and she's lurching between crises anyway.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes, I'd already spotted that one (when it was at 7.0). 5.3 still good value, I think.Tissue_Price said:What price would people have that the next PM is also the next Conservative leader - on day one as PM?
I wonder whether 5.3 might be value for TM's exit date as Tory leader being between July & September?
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.125589838
NB Tory conference is 29th Sept - 2nd Oct.0 -
Or make them see the relevance of electing the right people to the European parliament.Slackbladder said:Tide might be swinging against the EU with young people soon..
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=article 13&src=tyah-1 -
Depends on what was smuggled inside?SandyRentool said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-476703090 -
I was just wondering if there was a way to remove my signature from the revoke petition but then I remembered that left to their own devices the British are certain to do something even more retardedSlackbladder said:Tide might be swinging against the EU with young people soon..
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=article 13&src=tyah0 -
well Bath is an expensive place live :-)CarlottaVance said:Kez vs the Vicar of Bath:
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/11105089970172600320 -
Is there an app like Commons Votes where I can see the division ?williamglenn said:
Or make them see the relevance of electing the right people to the European parliament.Slackbladder said:Tide might be swinging against the EU with young people soon..
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=article 13&src=tyah0 -
Mmm. That gives the lie to a GE as the obvious way out.Barnesian said:
Adding latest Ipsos, ComRes and Opinium polls to the EMA puts Tories on 36.9% and Labour on 34.3%.Dadge said:
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.AndyJS said:
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.WhisperingOracle said:https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
Con 311
Lab 255
LD 22
UKIP 0
Green 1
SNP 40
NI 18
Tories 15 short of a majority.
Tories gain Canterbury.from Labour and lose Cheadle, Cheltenham, Devon N, Lewes, Richmond Park, St Albans and St Ives to the LibDems.0 -
Just looking at some other tweets in that thread, it sounds like an odd one!CarlottaVance said:Kez vs the Vicar of Bath:
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110508997017260032
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/11105023051311226880 -
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Would anyone notice? While most of the DUP cohort are very vocal, I've never heard her speak in the Commons.Pulpstar said:
Pengelly might lose her seat judging by the petition.AnotherEngineer said:
They have less to lose. They won't lose their seats, they won't split their party and they won't lose influence unless there is a general election, which they won't vote for.TGOHF said:
I see no sign of the DUP getting on board - it's not nearly close enough to midnight - they have bigger cajones than the ERG.Slackbladder said:
Yep, it's probably too late. If the dup get on board maybe, but without them 0% chanceTGOHF said:
I suspect it will still fail at the third hurdle.Slackbladder said:
It may well have sharpened peoples minds....TGOHF said:Would be amusing if the PV march and petition's impact was for Brexit to go ahead.
even with them there could be enough Hard-core ERGers, and enough anti-leave MPs to make the difference
However she does have another of those double-barrel names to make fun with, so I would miss Little-Piggy if she is voted out.0 -
But is he still waiting for his masters in the DUP to break cover first or will he make his own decision?Nigelb said:0 -
First FGM, now Breast Ironing,
Breast ironing awareness should be made part of the mandatory school curriculum to protect young girls from abuse, the National Education Union has said.
The practice involves ironing a girl's chest with hot objects to delay breasts from growing, so she does not attract male attention.
https://www.bbc.com/news/education-476951690 -
Ilford North (Streeting) on 6.8%
Ilford South (Gapes) only 4.3%0 -
They will soon learn that it doesn't matter who you vote for you always end up with politicians.williamglenn said:
Or make them see the relevance of electing the right people to the European parliament.Slackbladder said:Tide might be swinging against the EU with young people soon..
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=article 13&src=tyah
It is grimly amusing (in a very sad way as it will affect all of us ) that all those young people who claim to love the EU are shortly going to find it forced many of their favourite websites like youtube to stop operating or run massively curtailed services.0 -
Very low compared to nearby seats in Haringey and Hackney.Sunil_Prasannan said:Ilford North (Streeting) on 6.8%
Ilford South (Gapes) only 4.3%0 -
If mass youth unemployment across much of the EU hasn't done that I am not sure anything will?Slackbladder said:Tide might be swinging against the EU with young people soon..
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=article 13&src=tyah0 -
Rebecca Long-Barrier!SandyRentool said:
Would anyone notice? While most of the DUP cohort are very vocal, I've never heard her speak in the Commons.Pulpstar said:
Pengelly might lose her seat judging by the petition.AnotherEngineer said:
They have less to lose. They won't lose their seats, they won't split their party and they won't lose influence unless there is a general election, which they won't vote for.TGOHF said:
I see no sign of the DUP getting on board - it's not nearly close enough to midnight - they have bigger cajones than the ERG.Slackbladder said:
Yep, it's probably too late. If the dup get on board maybe, but without them 0% chanceTGOHF said:
I suspect it will still fail at the third hurdle.Slackbladder said:
It may well have sharpened peoples minds....TGOHF said:Would be amusing if the PV march and petition's impact was for Brexit to go ahead.
even with them there could be enough Hard-core ERGers, and enough anti-leave MPs to make the difference
However she does have another of those double-barrel names to make fun with, so I would miss Little-Piggy if she is voted out.0 -
I was going to ask what we did to deserve that, but then I remembered.AndyJS said:
I have never heard ot his practice, if such a bland word can describe such a thing, so awareness definitely needs raising!FrancisUrquhart said:First FGM, now Breast Ironing,
Breast ironing awareness should be made part of the mandatory school curriculum to protect young girls from abuse, the National Education Union has said.
The practice involves ironing a girl's chest with hot objects to delay breasts from growing, so she does not attract male attention.
https://www.bbc.com/news/education-476951690 -
I bet every resident on Muesli Hill has signed the petition !AndyJS said:
Very low compared to nearby seats in Haringey and Hackney.Sunil_Prasannan said:Ilford North (Streeting) on 6.8%
Ilford South (Gapes) only 4.3%0 -
To think the previous Parliament with a majority government was supposed to last until 2020 . . .AndyJS said:0 -
Growing up.brendan16 said:
If mass youth unemployment across much of the EU hasn't done that I am not sure anything will?Slackbladder said:Tide might be swinging against the EU with young people soon..
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=article 13&src=tyah0 -
A GE would produce a more remainey parliament than we already have.Prominent Brexiters such as Johnson and IDS would be quite likely to lose their seats due to tactical voting by remainers. The fact the Tories are apparently considering such a course is a measure of their desperation now that they realise the full depth of their predicament.dixiedean said:
Mmm. That gives the lie to a GE as the obvious way out.Barnesian said:
Adding latest Ipsos, ComRes and Opinium polls to the EMA puts Tories on 36.9% and Labour on 34.3%.Dadge said:
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.AndyJS said:
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.WhisperingOracle said:https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
Con 311
Lab 255
LD 22
UKIP 0
Green 1
SNP 40
NI 18
Tories 15 short of a majority.
Tories gain Canterbury.from Labour and lose Cheadle, Cheltenham, Devon N, Lewes, Richmond Park, St Albans and St Ives to the LibDems.0 -
What, taking away their internet memes and videos. That is going to cause a lot more upset than just telling them they can't work.brendan16 said:
If mass youth unemployment across much of the EU hasn't done that I am not sure anything will?Slackbladder said:Tide might be swinging against the EU with young people soon..
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=article 13&src=tyah0 -
Much to apologise for in that period, but feels a bit...late
Mexico's president has sent a letter to Spain's King Felipe VI and Pope Francis urging them to apologise for human rights abuses committed during the conquest of the region 500 years ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47701876
Are there things that the authorities in parts of what is now Mexico did 600 years ago that they should apologise for?0 -
I think that we are in complete agreement again although I am not entirely clear what is meant by Common Market 2.0.another_richard said:
1) May's DealPulpstar said:So how would everyone fill out their indicitive ballots ?
6 options I can see that have some sort of support in the house:
Revoke
{2nd referendum/People's vote/May's deal subject to ratification by the public} <- All essentially identical
Common Market 2.0
May's deal + Corbyn's customs union
May's deal
No Deal
I'd possibly go
1) Common Market 2.0
2) May's deal
3) May's deal + Corbyn's customs union
4) 2nd Ref
5) No deal
6) Revocation
There's a clear enough dividing line between the top 3 and bottom 3 options for me.</p>
2) May's Deal + CU
3) Common Market 2.0
4) No Deal
5) Revoke
6) 2nd Ref0 -
No, that's Hartlepool.SandyRentool said:
0 -
:-)Pulpstar said:I hadn't got you down as a Corbynite given what you post here, I can only conclude you must be absolutely loaded in order to afford his nonsense.
It is quite a big 'sort of'.
I'm keen for a government that will make a serious attempt to reduce inequality rather than pay lip service to it. So I like the direction of Labour under Corbyn. However I would trade him in for a better model if that were possible.
Loaded? Would not say that, but I can take a hit if needs be.0 -
That's why I'd at least like this parliament to limp on until then (I don't think it has much chance of lasting longer) - gets us back on track.Philip_Thompson said:
To think the previous Parliament with a majority government was supposed to last until 2020 . . .AndyJS said:0 -
I seem to remember human sacrifices being quite a big thing.kle4 said:Much to apologise for in that period, but feels a bit...late
Mexico's president has sent a letter to Spain's King Felipe VI and Pope Francis urging them to apologise for human rights abuses committed during the conquest of the region 500 years ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47701876
Are there things that the authorities in parts of what is now Mexico did 600 years ago that they should apologise for?0 -
And yet more and more seem to think it is a great idea. What am I missing? What do they expect to happen that will ensure or even make most likely that the current impasse will be resolved that way?dixiedean said:
Mmm. That gives the lie to a GE as the obvious way out.Barnesian said:
Adding latest Ipsos, ComRes and Opinium polls to the EMA puts Tories on 36.9% and Labour on 34.3%.Dadge said:
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.AndyJS said:
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.WhisperingOracle said:https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
Con 311
Lab 255
LD 22
UKIP 0
Green 1
SNP 40
NI 18
Tories 15 short of a majority.
Tories gain Canterbury.from Labour and lose Cheadle, Cheltenham, Devon N, Lewes, Richmond Park, St Albans and St Ives to the LibDems.0 -
0
-
Both of those would be worth staying up for!! It would be even better than Balls and Portillo put together!anothernick said:
A GE would produce a more remainey parliament than we already have.Prominent Brexiters such as Johnson and IDS would be quite likely to lose their seats due to tactical voting by remainers. The fact the Tories are apparently considering such a course is a measure of their desperation now that they realise the full depth of their predicament.dixiedean said:
Mmm. That gives the lie to a GE as the obvious way out.Barnesian said:
Adding latest Ipsos, ComRes and Opinium polls to the EMA puts Tories on 36.9% and Labour on 34.3%.Dadge said:
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.AndyJS said:
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.WhisperingOracle said:https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
Con 311
Lab 255
LD 22
UKIP 0
Green 1
SNP 40
NI 18
Tories 15 short of a majority.
Tories gain Canterbury.from Labour and lose Cheadle, Cheltenham, Devon N, Lewes, Richmond Park, St Albans and St Ives to the LibDems.0 -
I was thinking more the following: the Brexit bus meets the tides of reality:FrancisUrquhart said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-essex-47697159/bus-driver-misjudges-wallasea-island-flood-water0 -
The weirdest thing about that is that it is largely the current Mexican population whose ancestors were the ones doing the nasty things. So are they going to apologise to themselves?kle4 said:Much to apologise for in that period, but feels a bit...late
Mexico's president has sent a letter to Spain's King Felipe VI and Pope Francis urging them to apologise for human rights abuses committed during the conquest of the region 500 years ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47701876
Are there things that the authorities in parts of what is now Mexico did 600 years ago that they should apologise for?0 -
I wonder if we'll soon get the ERG asking for a referendum between May's Deal and Remain, rather than allowing the Commons to water down Brexit even further than May's Deal.0
-
Indeed. IIRC the conquistadores had a lot of native allies in the initial phases because of how brutal the Aztecs were. Which doesn't diminish what the invaders did to the country, but as always with these things how far back do you go?DavidL said:
I seem to remember human sacrifices being quite a big thing.kle4 said:Much to apologise for in that period, but feels a bit...late
Mexico's president has sent a letter to Spain's King Felipe VI and Pope Francis urging them to apologise for human rights abuses committed during the conquest of the region 500 years ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47701876
Are there things that the authorities in parts of what is now Mexico did 600 years ago that they should apologise for?
I'm still mad at the Normans.0 -
You've got no heart, David!DavidL said:
I seem to remember human sacrifices being quite a big thing.kle4 said:Much to apologise for in that period, but feels a bit...late
Mexico's president has sent a letter to Spain's King Felipe VI and Pope Francis urging them to apologise for human rights abuses committed during the conquest of the region 500 years ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47701876
Are there things that the authorities in parts of what is now Mexico did 600 years ago that they should apologise for?0 -
LOL. The commentary really makes it.JosiasJessop said:
I was thinking more the following: the Brexit bus meets the tides of reality:FrancisUrquhart said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-essex-47697159/bus-driver-misjudges-wallasea-island-flood-water0 -
Her goose is almost cooked, lucky for her Record and labour are picking up the tab.CarlottaVance said:Kez vs the Vicar of Bath:
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/11105089970172600320 -
Utterley ridiculous. Such apologies are vacuous.kle4 said:Much to apologise for in that period, but feels a bit...late
Mexico's president has sent a letter to Spain's King Felipe VI and Pope Francis urging them to apologise for human rights abuses committed during the conquest of the region 500 years ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47701876
Are there things that the authorities in parts of what is now Mexico did 600 years ago that they should apologise for?0 -
One to bookmark, methinks.malcolmg said:
Her goose is almost cooked, lucky for her Record and labour are picking up the tab.CarlottaVance said:Kez vs the Vicar of Bath:
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/11105089970172600320 -
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/may-s-party-first-policy-could-come-back-to-haunt-her-2q88tc5jp
"In recent weeks there have been an increasing number of mentions in cabinet minutes about how Brexit has to be delivered for the sake of the Conservative Party."0 -
Bercow apologises to Greg Hands which he accepts.0
-
betterbrexit.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Common-Market-2.0.pdfDavidL said:
I think that we are in complete agreement again although I am not entirely clear what is meant by Common Market 2.0.another_richard said:
1) May's DealPulpstar said:So how would everyone fill out their indicitive ballots ?
6 options I can see that have some sort of support in the house:
Revoke
{2nd referendum/People's vote/May's deal subject to ratification by the public} <- All essentially identical
Common Market 2.0
May's deal + Corbyn's customs union
May's deal
No Deal
I'd possibly go
1) Common Market 2.0
2) May's deal
3) May's deal + Corbyn's customs union
4) 2nd Ref
5) No deal
6) Revocation
There's a clear enough dividing line between the top 3 and bottom 3 options for me.</p>
2) May's Deal + CU
3) Common Market 2.0
4) No Deal
5) Revoke
6) 2nd Ref
It falls down when they describe the emergency brake (although they do give a verbatim description of the conditions required to trigger it). The mildly disingenuous bit is that they give the impression that it can be triggered at our whim.0 -
To be fair to anyone from the ERG who are belatedly coming around to the idea of potentially backing the MV late after rejecting it before, they are to be fair not the only ones at all in this Parliament who have been holding out for their own preferred option.
I for a long time wanted another option, but I accept that is no longer a possibility.
It is utterly insane that this Wednesday, no more than 2 days before we were scheduled to have left, Parliament is looking at taking indicative votes on SEVEN plus potential options.
Our whole system right now is farcical not just a few people.0 -
The way Nick Boles presents it is very disingenuous about whether it requires a customs union. He says not, but his plan says it would be a "customs arrangement with a common external tariff", which by anyone's definition is a customs union.TOPPING said:
betterbrexit.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Common-Market-2.0.pdfDavidL said:
I think that we are in complete agreement again although I am not entirely clear what is meant by Common Market 2.0.another_richard said:
1) May's DealPulpstar said:So how would everyone fill out their indicitive ballots ?
6 options I can see that have some sort of support in the house:
Revoke
{2nd referendum/People's vote/May's deal subject to ratification by the public} <- All essentially identical
Common Market 2.0
May's deal + Corbyn's customs union
May's deal
No Deal
I'd possibly go
1) Common Market 2.0
2) May's deal
3) May's deal + Corbyn's customs union
4) 2nd Ref
5) No deal
6) Revocation
There's a clear enough dividing line between the top 3 and bottom 3 options for me.</p>
2) May's Deal + CU
3) Common Market 2.0
4) No Deal
5) Revoke
6) 2nd Ref
It falls down when they describe the emergency brake (although they do give a verbatim description of the conditions required to trigger it). The mildly disingenuous bit is that they give the impression that it can be triggered at our whim.0 -
Seems unlikely. I thought the whole point nowadays with modern "hate crimes" etc is that it is up to the person making the accusation to determine if they thought it was hateful. At least as far as how our Police record it, if she says it was hateful then it was.malcolmg said:
Her goose is almost cooked, lucky for her Record and labour are picking up the tab.CarlottaVance said:Kez vs the Vicar of Bath:
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110508997017260032
Which is hardly a sane system, but its what we have.0 -
Everyone round there knows all about the difficulty of getting on and off Wallasea.FrancisUrquhart said:
LOL. The commentary really makes it.JosiasJessop said:
I was thinking more the following: the Brexit bus meets the tides of reality:FrancisUrquhart said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-essex-47697159/bus-driver-misjudges-wallasea-island-flood-water
0 -
Hard to argue with that. The ERG are easy to make the villains here, depending on what options people want, but a lot of the MPs are getting a pass for their 'do it my way or else' attitude, which the smarter ones at least hide as 'don't do it your way do it some other, unspecified or impossible way'.Philip_Thompson said:To be fair to anyone from the ERG who are belatedly coming around to the idea of potentially backing the MV late after rejecting it before, they are to be fair not the only ones at all in this Parliament who have been holding out for their own preferred option.
I for a long time wanted another option, but I accept that is no longer a possibility.
It is utterly insane that this Wednesday, no more than 2 days before we were scheduled to have left, Parliament is looking at taking indicative votes on SEVEN plus potential options.
Our whole system right now is farcical not just a few people.0 -
Cities of London and Westminster is now at the top of the list, using % of the electorate.
https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/2415840 -
Yes but the difference is that what the ERG has been campaigning for was easily within reach. They just needed to pluck the fruit in front of them.kle4 said:
Hard to argue with that. The ERG are easy to make the villains here, depending on what options people want, but a lot of the MPs are getting a pass for their 'do it my way or else' attitude, which the smarter ones at least hide as 'don't do it your way do it some other, unspecified or impossible way'.Philip_Thompson said:To be fair to anyone from the ERG who are belatedly coming around to the idea of potentially backing the MV late after rejecting it before, they are to be fair not the only ones at all in this Parliament who have been holding out for their own preferred option.
I for a long time wanted another option, but I accept that is no longer a possibility.
It is utterly insane that this Wednesday, no more than 2 days before we were scheduled to have left, Parliament is looking at taking indicative votes on SEVEN plus potential options.
Our whole system right now is farcical not just a few people.0 -
Guardian says lobby briefing now going on.0
-
Goldsmith looks pretty dead and buried. In fairness he did well to win back the seat after throwing it away in the first place.AndyJS said:Cities of London and Westminster is now at the top of the list, using % of the electorate.
https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/2415840 -
Robert Peston is predicting an election.0
-
If we're ranking on a scale, fine, but there are far too many who escape any sort of criticism, even for doing things the ERG are doing or being even more obstructive, because of course they cannot possibly be extreme, or fanatical, in indulging in unicorns or being disingenuous - because they are doing what other people want.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes but the difference is that what the ERG has been campaigning for was easily within reach. They just needed to pluck the fruit in front of them.kle4 said:
Hard to argue with that. The ERG are easy to make the villains here, depending on what options people want, but a lot of the MPs are getting a pass for their 'do it my way or else' attitude, which the smarter ones at least hide as 'don't do it your way do it some other, unspecified or impossible way'.Philip_Thompson said:To be fair to anyone from the ERG who are belatedly coming around to the idea of potentially backing the MV late after rejecting it before, they are to be fair not the only ones at all in this Parliament who have been holding out for their own preferred option.
I for a long time wanted another option, but I accept that is no longer a possibility.
It is utterly insane that this Wednesday, no more than 2 days before we were scheduled to have left, Parliament is looking at taking indicative votes on SEVEN plus potential options.
Our whole system right now is farcical not just a few people.0 -
Has he explained the purpose of the reference to homosexuality in his tweet? The suggestion seems to be that if his father had "embraced his homosexuality" then Mr Mundell would not exist. Perhaps it should be explained to this highly unpleasant individual that being homosexual does not automatically mean you will not have children! I think most gay people would regard this tweet as highly offensive.Richard_Nabavi said:
One to bookmark, methinks.malcolmg said:
Her goose is almost cooked, lucky for her Record and labour are picking up the tab.CarlottaVance said:Kez vs the Vicar of Bath:
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/11105089970172600320 -
Its essentially being in the EU but without any MEPs or seats at the Council of Ministers or on the Commission.DavidL said:
I think that we are in complete agreement again although I am not entirely clear what is meant by Common Market 2.0.another_richard said:
1) May's DealPulpstar said:So how would everyone fill out their indicitive ballots ?
6 options I can see that have some sort of support in the house:
Revoke
{2nd referendum/People's vote/May's deal subject to ratification by the public} <- All essentially identical
Common Market 2.0
May's deal + Corbyn's customs union
May's deal
No Deal
I'd possibly go
1) Common Market 2.0
2) May's deal
3) May's deal + Corbyn's customs union
4) 2nd Ref
5) No deal
6) Revocation
There's a clear enough dividing line between the top 3 and bottom 3 options for me.</p>
2) May's Deal + CU
3) Common Market 2.0
4) No Deal
5) Revoke
6) 2nd Ref
No control of our trade policy given the NI border issue - the EU decides that - at least Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein have their own customs controls and can do trade deals
remaining in the single market
No control over our borders - Freedom of movement stays albeit with some nebulous (but in reality never usable) emergency break.
Still subject to the ECJ
Still paying billions into the EU each year.
Its BRINO on steroids and frankly no one would notice any real difference bar us having no direct democratic representation in Brussels when they decide what rules we must follow. It really should be called Vassal State 100.0!
Its Brexit in theory - but remain in all but name.
0 -
The Commons decided yesterday to take back control from the Government, winning the key vote by an overwhelming 52% to 48%, a wide margin that firmly settles the matter for the foreseeable future.
Theresa May was said to be devastated that the power to bugger up the UK-EU relationship was now vested in people that aren’t her. In better European news, England convincingly thrashed global football titans Montenegro, winning 5-1.0 -
Has the March to Leave been abandoned ?
Haven't heard anything about it for a while.0 -
-
Even assumingkle4 said:
Goldsmith looks pretty dead and buried. In fairness he did well to win back the seat after throwing it away in the first place.AndyJS said:Cities of London and Westminster is now at the top of the list, using % of the electorate.
https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584
1) All signatures are unique
2) All signatures are eligible voters
3) All signatures are really in this constituency
4) All signatures would vote based on this
The number signing is still fewer than the number of Lib Dem votes in 2017, or by definition the number of Goldsmith votes in 20170 -
Not necessarily. He did win 28,000 votes, and the Conservatives were level-pegging in the seat in the local elections.kle4 said:
Goldsmith looks pretty dead and buried. In fairness he did well to win back the seat after throwing it away in the first place.AndyJS said:Cities of London and Westminster is now at the top of the list, using % of the electorate.
https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/2415840 -
The ERG's most egregious sin (and there are many sins) was giving Labour cover not to vote for the deal.Richard_Nabavi said:
Yes but the difference is that what the ERG has been campaigning for was easily within reach. They just needed to pluck the fruit in front of them.kle4 said:
Hard to argue with that. The ERG are easy to make the villains here, depending on what options people want, but a lot of the MPs are getting a pass for their 'do it my way or else' attitude, which the smarter ones at least hide as 'don't do it your way do it some other, unspecified or impossible way'.Philip_Thompson said:To be fair to anyone from the ERG who are belatedly coming around to the idea of potentially backing the MV late after rejecting it before, they are to be fair not the only ones at all in this Parliament who have been holding out for their own preferred option.
I for a long time wanted another option, but I accept that is no longer a possibility.
It is utterly insane that this Wednesday, no more than 2 days before we were scheduled to have left, Parliament is looking at taking indicative votes on SEVEN plus potential options.
Our whole system right now is farcical not just a few people.
"If you can't even convince your own party..."0 -
I thought Goldsmith's chances of winning the seat back at the last election were zero and yet he won, albeit it by 45 votes.kle4 said:
Goldsmith looks pretty dead and buried. In fairness he did well to win back the seat after throwing it away in the first place.AndyJS said:Cities of London and Westminster is now at the top of the list, using % of the electorate.
https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/2415840 -
Idiots.CarlottaVance said:
On the up side, perhaps the youth remain vote will now see the light. :-)
0 -
No, it reaches London on Friday where a 'Leave means Leave' rally is planned in Parliament SquareWhisperingOracle said:Has the March to Leave been abandoned ?
Haven't heard anything about it for a while.
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1110285672974348291?s=200 -
-
Phew. If he's predicting it then Brenda can relax.Danny565 said:Robert Peston is predicting an election.
0 -
Top QC enters the fray and explains by telepathy what the person was really thinking.Nigel_Foremain said:
Has he explained the purpose of the reference to homosexuality in his tweet? The suggestion seems to be that if his father had "embraced his homosexuality" then Mr Mundell would not exist. Perhaps it should be explained to this highly unpleasant individual that being homosexual does not automatically mean you will not have children! I think most gay people would regard this tweet as highly offensive.Richard_Nabavi said:
One to bookmark, methinks.malcolmg said:
Her goose is almost cooked, lucky for her Record and labour are picking up the tab.CarlottaVance said:Kez vs the Vicar of Bath:
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/11105089970172600320 -
The richest spots in London are very remain, and very Tory (Knightsbridge etc)Sean_F said:
Not necessarily. He did win 28,000 votes, and the Conservatives were level-pegging in the seat in the local elections.kle4 said:
Goldsmith looks pretty dead and buried. In fairness he did well to win back the seat after throwing it away in the first place.AndyJS said:Cities of London and Westminster is now at the top of the list, using % of the electorate.
https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/2415840
