this also depends upon the level of capitulation by the ERG. Add in a whole-UK backstop for example in some kind of side-letter or addendum and the DUP climb on board ...
This a bit of the jigsaw I don't understand. We have a whole-UK backstop, thanks to the negotiating prowess of Theresa May and Olly Robbins. You'd have thought that would be exactly what the DUP would want.
yebbut there are bits of the single market that NI would be caught by.
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.
Yes they could do very well, especially with a new leader.
Student fees seems like a long time ago now.
I take you havent been mugged by Universities of late.
Correct. But if you're a Tory Remainer in Devon, are you only going to blame the LDs for fees, and let that dictate your vote?
If youre a young person who has just been tucked up with £60k of debt with very little to show for it are you going to thank the LDs for stitching you up ? If youre a parent who doesnt want to see your kids sold to the modern version of indentured labour are you going to thank the LDs for that large hole your savings ?
My eldest and her partner were the first to go through under the new regime and they're fine with it. They do note "They should just have called it a graduate tax, shouldn't they?"
Anyway - "indentured labour"? Seriously?
"If you earn under the average income as a graduate, it's free. You only pay if you earn over the average, and that's only a proportion of your income over the average" ---"Why, that's indentured labour!"
oh a bit of poetic licence Mr Cooke
but yes it is a graduate tax and we are in the daft position of fining people for improving the national value of human capital. At a time were all saying we need a knowledge based workforce, we're disincentivising knowledge.
Like we "fine" people for working (income tax)? Or we "fine" companies for being successful (corporation tax)? Or we "fine" anyone who provides goods or services (VAT)?
Lots of disincentivising going on there.
This is simply taxing people twice for the same service. I take the view young people starting out in life need a break before they can accumulate some capital. If you want to buy a house or start a family having extra debt shoved on you means you have to put these off. Thats not healthy for the UK in the long run.
"The Tory Brexiter John Baron has said he thinks a general election is becoming more likely. He explained:
A snap general election is becoming more likely. Whatever the outcome of the votes on Wednesday, the numbers inside the current remain-dominated House of Commons will not change.
It may be that an election is necessary to redress the balance in favour of MPs willing to implement the referendum result, for history suggests it is unwise for any parliament to distance itself from the people. The events of the next few weeks will be critical."
The problem is that a general election would likely produce another hung Parliament.
If the mix of parties and MP's were different, that might not matter. Or too much. A we've not don so well with a single-minded, tin-eared PM, have we?
Would be amusing if the PV march and petition's impact was for Brexit to go ahead.
It may well have sharpened peoples minds....
I suspect it will still fail at the third hurdle.
Yep, it's probably too late. If the dup get on board maybe, but without them 0% chance even with them there could be enough Hard-core ERGers, and enough anti-leave MPs to make the difference
I see no sign of the DUP getting on board - it's not nearly close enough to midnight - they have bigger cajones than the ERG.
They have less to lose. They won't lose their seats, they won't split their party and they won't lose influence unless there is a general election, which they won't vote for.
Pengelly might lose her seat judging by the petition.
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.
Yes they could do very well, especially with a new leader.
Student fees seems like a long time ago now.
I take you havent been mugged by Universities of late.
Correct. But if you're a Tory Remainer in Devon, are you only going to blame the LDs for fees, and let that dictate your vote?
If youre a young person who has just been tucked up with £60k of debt with very little to show for it are you going to thank the LDs for stitching you up ? If youre a parent who doesnt want to see your kids sold to the modern version of indentured labour are you going to thank the LDs for that large hole your savings ?
My eldest and her partner were the first to go through under the new regime and they're fine with it. They do note "They should just have called it a graduate tax, shouldn't they?"
Anyway - "indentured labour"? Seriously?
"If you earn under the average income as a graduate, it's free. You only pay if you earn over the average, and that's only a proportion of your income over the average" ---"Why, that's indentured labour!"
We have a progressive tax system. The more you earn the more you pay as a percentage of income. Surely this should cover graduates earning more than most? We don't need a separate graduate tax. The top rates of income tax should be raised and some of it be used to finance universities.
"An anonymous Labour MP has written in the Times about the Brexit process.
They write: "I'm a Labour MP who voted remain, representing a constituency who voted heavily to leave. I'm torn in two.
"I want to be accountable, I want to be involved but I sit uselessly and helplessly trapped in a Commons that is falling to pieces at a time of national crisis.
"I'm one of the 650. We'll all get the blame when the ship sinks, but in truth you might as well have put a dead cat in there instead of me; it would have had as much of a role as I've had in the Brexit discussions.""
Bristol West and Brighton Pavillion leading the fray in the Revoke vote, the former passing 25%. Amazing turnout for an online petition.
Hartlepool is on 2.8%...
It's probably better to look at the percentage of the electorate figures rather than population. Personally I don't think the numbers signing this petition are an indication that Remain would win another referendum. The highest figures are in precisely the areas that voted overwhelmingly Remain at the referendum.
That's "percentage of constituents" - which I assume is population, rather than those eligible to vote. Given the ratio of constituents to voters will be largely the same (outliers with large immigrant populations excepted) then I think the message remains the same.
I'd *guess* 25% of constituents = 40% of the electorate
A lot of urban constituencies will have large numbers of EU nationals who will have signed.
The point is that the size of the petition and the march has made lots of headlines and is helping frame the narrative in a critical week for Brexit. I'm not sure the detail is terribly relevant right now.
this also depends upon the level of capitulation by the ERG. Add in a whole-UK backstop for example in some kind of side-letter or addendum and the DUP climb on board ...
This a bit of the jigsaw I don't understand. We have a whole-UK backstop, thanks to the negotiating prowess of Theresa May and Olly Robbins. You'd have thought that would be exactly what the DUP would want.
yebbut there are bits of the single market that NI would be caught by.
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.
Yes they could do very well, especially with a new leader.
Student fees seems like a long time ago now.
I take you havent been mugged by Universities of late.
Correct. But if you're a Tory Remainer in Devon, are you only going to blame the LDs for fees, and let that dictate your vote?
If youre a young person who has just been tucked up with £60k of debt with very little to show for it are you going to thank the LDs for stitching you up ? If youre a parent who doesnt want to see your kids sold to the modern version of indentured labour are you going to thank the LDs for that large hole your savings ?
My eldest and her partner were the first to go through under the new regime and they're fine with it. They do note "They should just have called it a graduate tax, shouldn't they?"
Anyway - "indentured labour"? Seriously?
"If you earn under the average income as a graduate, it's free. You only pay if you earn over the average, and that's only a proportion of your income over the average" ---"Why, that's indentured labour!"
oh a bit of poetic licence Mr Cooke
but yes it is a graduate tax and we are in the daft position of fining people for improving the national value of human capital. At a time were all saying we need a knowledge based workforce, we're disincentivising knowledge.
Like we "fine" people for working (income tax)? Or we "fine" companies for being successful (corporation tax)? Or we "fine" anyone who provides goods or services (VAT)?
Lots of disincentivising going on there.
This is simply taxing people twice for the same service. I take the view young people starting out in life need a break before they can accumulate some capital. If you want to buy a house or start a family having extra debt shoved on you means you have to put these off. Thats not healthy for the UK in the long run.
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.
Yes, as I mentioned on Saturday I saw multiple placards at the march from Devon.
Indeed. Also, it looks like Cities of London and Westminster is about to overtake Hornsey & Wood Green as the seat with highest percentage of the electorate signing the petition.
If I were Mark Field I would be crapping myself at the figure for Cities of London & Westminster. More people have signed the revoke petition than voted for him. He's going to face a very serious challenge at the next election whenever it comes.
Is it a seat where Chuka could run, and win ?
Do you know, I think it might be.
Acton Central might be another - a super marginal turned safe (Corbynista) Lab by Brexit. Plenty of Cons held their noses on the assumption Lab couldn't win the GE.
Would be amusing if the PV march and petition's impact was for Brexit to go ahead.
It may well have sharpened peoples minds....
I suspect it will still fail at the third hurdle.
Yep, it's probably too late. If the dup get on board maybe, but without them 0% chance even with them there could be enough Hard-core ERGers, and enough anti-leave MPs to make the difference
I see no sign of the DUP getting on board - it's not nearly close enough to midnight - they have bigger cajones than the ERG.
They have less to lose. They won't lose their seats, they won't split their party and they won't lose influence unless there is a general election, which they won't vote for.
Pengelly might lose her seat judging by the petition.
Maybe, but it was viewed as a 4 way split the last time, the nat\unionist vote will still just roll out and vote tribally
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.
Yes, as I mentioned on Saturday I saw multiple placards at the march from Devon.
Indeed. Also, it looks like Cities of London and Westminster is about to overtake Hornsey & Wood Green as the seat with highest percentage of the electorate signing the petition.
If I were Mark Field I would be crapping myself at the figure for Cities of London & Westminster. More people have signed the revoke petition than voted for him. He's going to face a very serious challenge at the next election whenever it comes.
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.
Yes they could do very well, especially with a new leader.
Student fees seems like a long time ago now.
I take you havent been mugged by Universities of late.
Correct. But if you're a Tory Remainer in Devon, are you only going to blame the LDs for fees, and let that dictate your vote?
If youre a young person who has just been tucked up with £60k of debt with very little to show for it are you going to thank the LDs for stitching you up ? If youre a parent who doesnt want to see your kids sold to the modern version of indentured labour are you going to thank the LDs for that large hole your savings ?
My eldest and her partner were the first to go through under the new regime and they're fine with it. They do note "They should just have called it a graduate tax, shouldn't they?"
Anyway - "indentured labour"? Seriously?
"If you earn under the average income as a graduate, it's free. You only pay if you earn over the average, and that's only a proportion of your income over the average" ---"Why, that's indentured labour!"
oh a bit of poetic licence Mr Cooke
but yes it is a graduate tax and we knowledge.
Like we "fine" people for working (income tax)? Or we "fine" companies for being successful (corporation tax)? Or we "fine" anyone who provides goods or services (VAT)?
Lots of disincentivising going on there.
This is simply taxing people twiceun.
Don't vote Tory then.
When it was introduced I didnt
I can see why you became a Corbynite now.
Ive posted many times that Corbyn is closer to what motivates people than the Tories. the Tories if they wish to win an election actually need some policies
Would be amusing if the PV march and petition's impact was for Brexit to go ahead.
It may well have sharpened peoples minds....
I suspect it will still fail at the third hurdle.
Yep, it's probably too late. If the dup get on board maybe, but without them 0% chance even with them there could be enough Hard-core ERGers, and enough anti-leave MPs to make the difference
I see no sign of the DUP getting on board - it's not nearly close enough to midnight - they have bigger cajones than the ERG.
They have less to lose. They won't lose their seats, they won't split their party and they won't lose influence unless there is a general election, which they won't vote for.
Pengelly might lose her seat judging by the petition.
I doubt if many of her own voters signed it.
If loads of nationalist switched behind the Alliance candidate, she would lose, but I think that both SDLP and SF want to win this seat.
Would be amusing if the PV march and petition's impact was for Brexit to go ahead.
I think what it is doing is strengthening resolve against an ERG Brexit (or perhaps I should say ERG's Brexit stance last week given that it looks like it could change).
A lot of remainers could live with May's deal or Common Market 2 or some sort of soft Brexit. It is those trying to manipulate us into a No Deal that are fuelling the petition/march activism.
"An anonymous Labour MP has written in the Times about the Brexit process.
They write: "I'm a Labour MP who voted remain, representing a constituency who voted heavily to leave. I'm torn in two.
"I want to be accountable, I want to be involved but I sit uselessly and helplessly trapped in a Commons that is falling to pieces at a time of national crisis.
"I'm one of the 650. We'll all get the blame when the ship sinks, but in truth you might as well have put a dead cat in there instead of me; it would have had as much of a role as I've had in the Brexit discussions.""
3. So perhaps this points to an scenario where we ratify the WA, avoid the immediate cliff-edge, and then hold a GE to figure out what to try to do next. That would effectively nullify the 'indicative vote' of the current parliament, and replace it with... what? It's hard to see the Conservative Party campaigning on a platform of a softer Brexit than Theresa May was trying to implement. Labour probably would, but on current polling don't look likely to get a mandate to implement it - another hung parliament, and a repeat of the current squabbles, looks likely.
Yes, this one.
GE in Sept/Oct post Leave. Cons (Canada+) vs Lab (Norway+).
Cons under Gove or Hunt. They win handsomely.
As a Corbynista (sort of) I really hope it does not pan out like this, but I fear it will.
"An anonymous Labour MP has written in the Times about the Brexit process.
They write: "I'm a Labour MP who voted remain, representing a constituency who voted heavily to leave. I'm torn in two.
"I want to be accountable, I want to be involved but I sit uselessly and helplessly trapped in a Commons that is falling to pieces at a time of national crisis.
"I'm one of the 650. We'll all get the blame when the ship sinks, but in truth you might as well have put a dead cat in there instead of me; it would have had as much of a role as I've had in the Brexit discussions.""
I cannot say I feel a great deal of sympathy. I do not belittle the job before them, and the minimal role of many of them on the larger aspects, nor even the pressures of party on what they are expected to do, but being an MP is not meant to be easy in a time of crisis, and every single one of them asked to take on their share of the responsibility for governing this nation. Breaking party lines, approving something previously uncontemplatable, putting it back to the people, and so on and so on, these options will put a lot of pressure on them. But none of them are insurmountable if they grow up and decide something, and hopfully MPs will start doing that soon.
3. So perhaps this points to an scenario where we ratify the WA, avoid the immediate cliff-edge, and then hold a GE to figure out what to try to do next. That would effectively nullify the 'indicative vote' of the current parliament, and replace it with... what? It's hard to see the Conservative Party campaigning on a platform of a softer Brexit than Theresa May was trying to implement. Labour probably would, but on current polling don't look likely to get a mandate to implement it - another hung parliament, and a repeat of the current squabbles, looks likely.
Yes, this one.
GE in Sept/Oct post Leave. Cons (Canada+) vs Lab (Norway+).
Cons under Gove or Hunt. They win handsomely.
As a Corbynista (sort of) I really hope it does not pan out like this, but I fear it will.
I hadn't got you down as a Corbynite given what you post here, I can only conclude you must be absolubtely loaded in order to afford his nonsense.
I was just wondering if there was a way to remove my signature from the revoke petition but then I remembered that left to their own devices the British are certain to do something even more retarded
Would be amusing if the PV march and petition's impact was for Brexit to go ahead.
It may well have sharpened peoples minds....
I suspect it will still fail at the third hurdle.
Yep, it's probably too late. If the dup get on board maybe, but without them 0% chance even with them there could be enough Hard-core ERGers, and enough anti-leave MPs to make the difference
I see no sign of the DUP getting on board - it's not nearly close enough to midnight - they have bigger cajones than the ERG.
They have less to lose. They won't lose their seats, they won't split their party and they won't lose influence unless there is a general election, which they won't vote for.
Pengelly might lose her seat judging by the petition.
Would anyone notice? While most of the DUP cohort are very vocal, I've never heard her speak in the Commons.
However she does have another of those double-barrel names to make fun with, so I would miss Little-Piggy if she is voted out.
Breast ironing awareness should be made part of the mandatory school curriculum to protect young girls from abuse, the National Education Union has said.
The practice involves ironing a girl's chest with hot objects to delay breasts from growing, so she does not attract male attention.
Or make them see the relevance of electing the right people to the European parliament.
They will soon learn that it doesn't matter who you vote for you always end up with politicians.
It is grimly amusing (in a very sad way as it will affect all of us ) that all those young people who claim to love the EU are shortly going to find it forced many of their favourite websites like youtube to stop operating or run massively curtailed services.
Would be amusing if the PV march and petition's impact was for Brexit to go ahead.
It may well have sharpened peoples minds....
I suspect it will still fail at the third hurdle.
Yep, it's probably too late. If the dup get on board maybe, but without them 0% chance even with them there could be enough Hard-core ERGers, and enough anti-leave MPs to make the difference
I see no sign of the DUP getting on board - it's not nearly close enough to midnight - they have bigger cajones than the ERG.
They have less to lose. They won't lose their seats, they won't split their party and they won't lose influence unless there is a general election, which they won't vote for.
Pengelly might lose her seat judging by the petition.
Would anyone notice? While most of the DUP cohort are very vocal, I've never heard her speak in the Commons.
However she does have another of those double-barrel names to make fun with, so I would miss Little-Piggy if she is voted out.
Breast ironing awareness should be made part of the mandatory school curriculum to protect young girls from abuse, the National Education Union has said.
The practice involves ironing a girl's chest with hot objects to delay breasts from growing, so she does not attract male attention.
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.
Adding latest Ipsos, ComRes and Opinium polls to the EMA puts Tories on 36.9% and Labour on 34.3%.
Con 311 Lab 255 LD 22 UKIP 0 Green 1 SNP 40 NI 18
Tories 15 short of a majority.
Tories gain Canterbury.from Labour and lose Cheadle, Cheltenham, Devon N, Lewes, Richmond Park, St Albans and St Ives to the LibDems.
Mmm. That gives the lie to a GE as the obvious way out.
A GE would produce a more remainey parliament than we already have.Prominent Brexiters such as Johnson and IDS would be quite likely to lose their seats due to tactical voting by remainers. The fact the Tories are apparently considering such a course is a measure of their desperation now that they realise the full depth of their predicament.
Much to apologise for in that period, but feels a bit...late
Mexico's president has sent a letter to Spain's King Felipe VI and Pope Francis urging them to apologise for human rights abuses committed during the conquest of the region 500 years ago https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47701876
Are there things that the authorities in parts of what is now Mexico did 600 years ago that they should apologise for?
So how would everyone fill out their indicitive ballots ?
6 options I can see that have some sort of support in the house:
Revoke {2nd referendum/People's vote/May's deal subject to ratification by the public} <- All essentially identical Common Market 2.0 May's deal + Corbyn's customs union May's deal No Deal
I'd possibly go
1) Common Market 2.0 2) May's deal 3) May's deal + Corbyn's customs union 4) 2nd Ref 5) No deal 6) Revocation
There's a clear enough dividing line between the top 3 and bottom 3 options for me.</p>
1) May's Deal 2) May's Deal + CU 3) Common Market 2.0 4) No Deal 5) Revoke 6) 2nd Ref
I think that we are in complete agreement again although I am not entirely clear what is meant by Common Market 2.0.
I hadn't got you down as a Corbynite given what you post here, I can only conclude you must be absolutely loaded in order to afford his nonsense.
:-)
It is quite a big 'sort of'.
I'm keen for a government that will make a serious attempt to reduce inequality rather than pay lip service to it. So I like the direction of Labour under Corbyn. However I would trade him in for a better model if that were possible.
Loaded? Would not say that, but I can take a hit if needs be.
Much to apologise for in that period, but feels a bit...late
Mexico's president has sent a letter to Spain's King Felipe VI and Pope Francis urging them to apologise for human rights abuses committed during the conquest of the region 500 years ago https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47701876
Are there things that the authorities in parts of what is now Mexico did 600 years ago that they should apologise for?
I seem to remember human sacrifices being quite a big thing.
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.
Adding latest Ipsos, ComRes and Opinium polls to the EMA puts Tories on 36.9% and Labour on 34.3%.
Con 311 Lab 255 LD 22 UKIP 0 Green 1 SNP 40 NI 18
Tories 15 short of a majority.
Tories gain Canterbury.from Labour and lose Cheadle, Cheltenham, Devon N, Lewes, Richmond Park, St Albans and St Ives to the LibDems.
Mmm. That gives the lie to a GE as the obvious way out.
And yet more and more seem to think it is a great idea. What am I missing? What do they expect to happen that will ensure or even make most likely that the current impasse will be resolved that way?
Going to reach six million sometime this evening, I think.. now running at about a million/ per 36 hours.
The largest percentage of signatures in a Leave voting constituency is currently 14.9% in Devon Central.
I think it's a safe bet that the Lib Dems will pick up a few seats in the SW at the next GE.
Adding latest Ipsos, ComRes and Opinium polls to the EMA puts Tories on 36.9% and Labour on 34.3%.
Con 311 Lab 255 LD 22 UKIP 0 Green 1 SNP 40 NI 18
Tories 15 short of a majority.
Tories gain Canterbury.from Labour and lose Cheadle, Cheltenham, Devon N, Lewes, Richmond Park, St Albans and St Ives to the LibDems.
Mmm. That gives the lie to a GE as the obvious way out.
A GE would produce a more remainey parliament than we already have.Prominent Brexiters such as Johnson and IDS would be quite likely to lose their seats due to tactical voting by remainers. The fact the Tories are apparently considering such a course is a measure of their desperation now that they realise the full depth of their predicament.
Both of those would be worth staying up for!! It would be even better than Balls and Portillo put together!
Much to apologise for in that period, but feels a bit...late
Mexico's president has sent a letter to Spain's King Felipe VI and Pope Francis urging them to apologise for human rights abuses committed during the conquest of the region 500 years ago https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47701876
Are there things that the authorities in parts of what is now Mexico did 600 years ago that they should apologise for?
The weirdest thing about that is that it is largely the current Mexican population whose ancestors were the ones doing the nasty things. So are they going to apologise to themselves?
I wonder if we'll soon get the ERG asking for a referendum between May's Deal and Remain, rather than allowing the Commons to water down Brexit even further than May's Deal.
Much to apologise for in that period, but feels a bit...late
Mexico's president has sent a letter to Spain's King Felipe VI and Pope Francis urging them to apologise for human rights abuses committed during the conquest of the region 500 years ago https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47701876
Are there things that the authorities in parts of what is now Mexico did 600 years ago that they should apologise for?
I seem to remember human sacrifices being quite a big thing.
Indeed. IIRC the conquistadores had a lot of native allies in the initial phases because of how brutal the Aztecs were. Which doesn't diminish what the invaders did to the country, but as always with these things how far back do you go?
Much to apologise for in that period, but feels a bit...late
Mexico's president has sent a letter to Spain's King Felipe VI and Pope Francis urging them to apologise for human rights abuses committed during the conquest of the region 500 years ago https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47701876
Are there things that the authorities in parts of what is now Mexico did 600 years ago that they should apologise for?
I seem to remember human sacrifices being quite a big thing.
I wonder if we'll soon get the ERG asking for a referendum between May's Deal and Remain, rather than allowing the Commons to water down Brexit even further than May's Deal.
Oh that would be funny. I don't think it most likely, but you can see the logic behind it.
Much to apologise for in that period, but feels a bit...late
Mexico's president has sent a letter to Spain's King Felipe VI and Pope Francis urging them to apologise for human rights abuses committed during the conquest of the region 500 years ago https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47701876
Are there things that the authorities in parts of what is now Mexico did 600 years ago that they should apologise for?
"In recent weeks there have been an increasing number of mentions in cabinet minutes about how Brexit has to be delivered for the sake of the Conservative Party."
So how would everyone fill out their indicitive ballots ?
6 options I can see that have some sort of support in the house:
Revoke {2nd referendum/People's vote/May's deal subject to ratification by the public} <- All essentially identical Common Market 2.0 May's deal + Corbyn's customs union May's deal No Deal
I'd possibly go
1) Common Market 2.0 2) May's deal 3) May's deal + Corbyn's customs union 4) 2nd Ref 5) No deal 6) Revocation
There's a clear enough dividing line between the top 3 and bottom 3 options for me.</p>
1) May's Deal 2) May's Deal + CU 3) Common Market 2.0 4) No Deal 5) Revoke 6) 2nd Ref
I think that we are in complete agreement again although I am not entirely clear what is meant by Common Market 2.0.
It falls down when they describe the emergency brake (although they do give a verbatim description of the conditions required to trigger it). The mildly disingenuous bit is that they give the impression that it can be triggered at our whim.
To be fair to anyone from the ERG who are belatedly coming around to the idea of potentially backing the MV late after rejecting it before, they are to be fair not the only ones at all in this Parliament who have been holding out for their own preferred option.
I for a long time wanted another option, but I accept that is no longer a possibility.
It is utterly insane that this Wednesday, no more than 2 days before we were scheduled to have left, Parliament is looking at taking indicative votes on SEVEN plus potential options.
Our whole system right now is farcical not just a few people.
So how would everyone fill out their indicitive ballots ?
6 options I can see that have some sort of support in the house:
Revoke {2nd referendum/People's vote/May's deal subject to ratification by the public} <- All essentially identical Common Market 2.0 May's deal + Corbyn's customs union May's deal No Deal
I'd possibly go
1) Common Market 2.0 2) May's deal 3) May's deal + Corbyn's customs union 4) 2nd Ref 5) No deal 6) Revocation
There's a clear enough dividing line between the top 3 and bottom 3 options for me.</p>
1) May's Deal 2) May's Deal + CU 3) Common Market 2.0 4) No Deal 5) Revoke 6) 2nd Ref
I think that we are in complete agreement again although I am not entirely clear what is meant by Common Market 2.0.
It falls down when they describe the emergency brake (although they do give a verbatim description of the conditions required to trigger it). The mildly disingenuous bit is that they give the impression that it can be triggered at our whim.
The way Nick Boles presents it is very disingenuous about whether it requires a customs union. He says not, but his plan says it would be a "customs arrangement with a common external tariff", which by anyone's definition is a customs union.
Her goose is almost cooked, lucky for her Record and labour are picking up the tab.
Seems unlikely. I thought the whole point nowadays with modern "hate crimes" etc is that it is up to the person making the accusation to determine if they thought it was hateful. At least as far as how our Police record it, if she says it was hateful then it was.
Which is hardly a sane system, but its what we have.
To be fair to anyone from the ERG who are belatedly coming around to the idea of potentially backing the MV late after rejecting it before, they are to be fair not the only ones at all in this Parliament who have been holding out for their own preferred option.
I for a long time wanted another option, but I accept that is no longer a possibility.
It is utterly insane that this Wednesday, no more than 2 days before we were scheduled to have left, Parliament is looking at taking indicative votes on SEVEN plus potential options.
Our whole system right now is farcical not just a few people.
Hard to argue with that. The ERG are easy to make the villains here, depending on what options people want, but a lot of the MPs are getting a pass for their 'do it my way or else' attitude, which the smarter ones at least hide as 'don't do it your way do it some other, unspecified or impossible way'.
To be fair to anyone from the ERG who are belatedly coming around to the idea of potentially backing the MV late after rejecting it before, they are to be fair not the only ones at all in this Parliament who have been holding out for their own preferred option.
I for a long time wanted another option, but I accept that is no longer a possibility.
It is utterly insane that this Wednesday, no more than 2 days before we were scheduled to have left, Parliament is looking at taking indicative votes on SEVEN plus potential options.
Our whole system right now is farcical not just a few people.
Hard to argue with that. The ERG are easy to make the villains here, depending on what options people want, but a lot of the MPs are getting a pass for their 'do it my way or else' attitude, which the smarter ones at least hide as 'don't do it your way do it some other, unspecified or impossible way'.
Yes but the difference is that what the ERG has been campaigning for was easily within reach. They just needed to pluck the fruit in front of them.
To be fair to anyone from the ERG who are belatedly coming around to the idea of potentially backing the MV late after rejecting it before, they are to be fair not the only ones at all in this Parliament who have been holding out for their own preferred option.
I for a long time wanted another option, but I accept that is no longer a possibility.
It is utterly insane that this Wednesday, no more than 2 days before we were scheduled to have left, Parliament is looking at taking indicative votes on SEVEN plus potential options.
Our whole system right now is farcical not just a few people.
Hard to argue with that. The ERG are easy to make the villains here, depending on what options people want, but a lot of the MPs are getting a pass for their 'do it my way or else' attitude, which the smarter ones at least hide as 'don't do it your way do it some other, unspecified or impossible way'.
Yes but the difference is that what the ERG has been campaigning for was easily within reach. They just needed to pluck the fruit in front of them.
If we're ranking on a scale, fine, but there are far too many who escape any sort of criticism, even for doing things the ERG are doing or being even more obstructive, because of course they cannot possibly be extreme, or fanatical, in indulging in unicorns or being disingenuous - because they are doing what other people want.
Her goose is almost cooked, lucky for her Record and labour are picking up the tab.
One to bookmark, methinks.
Has he explained the purpose of the reference to homosexuality in his tweet? The suggestion seems to be that if his father had "embraced his homosexuality" then Mr Mundell would not exist. Perhaps it should be explained to this highly unpleasant individual that being homosexual does not automatically mean you will not have children! I think most gay people would regard this tweet as highly offensive.
So how would everyone fill out their indicitive ballots ?
6 options I can see that have some sort of support in the house:
Revoke {2nd referendum/People's vote/May's deal subject to ratification by the public} <- All essentially identical Common Market 2.0 May's deal + Corbyn's customs union May's deal No Deal
I'd possibly go
1) Common Market 2.0 2) May's deal 3) May's deal + Corbyn's customs union 4) 2nd Ref 5) No deal 6) Revocation
There's a clear enough dividing line between the top 3 and bottom 3 options for me.</p>
1) May's Deal 2) May's Deal + CU 3) Common Market 2.0 4) No Deal 5) Revoke 6) 2nd Ref
I think that we are in complete agreement again although I am not entirely clear what is meant by Common Market 2.0.
Its essentially being in the EU but without any MEPs or seats at the Council of Ministers or on the Commission.
No control of our trade policy given the NI border issue - the EU decides that - at least Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein have their own customs controls and can do trade deals remaining in the single market No control over our borders - Freedom of movement stays albeit with some nebulous (but in reality never usable) emergency break. Still subject to the ECJ Still paying billions into the EU each year.
Its BRINO on steroids and frankly no one would notice any real difference bar us having no direct democratic representation in Brussels when they decide what rules we must follow. It really should be called Vassal State 100.0!
Its Brexit in theory - but remain in all but name.
The Commons decided yesterday to take back control from the Government, winning the key vote by an overwhelming 52% to 48%, a wide margin that firmly settles the matter for the foreseeable future.
Theresa May was said to be devastated that the power to bugger up the UK-EU relationship was now vested in people that aren’t her. In better European news, England convincingly thrashed global football titans Montenegro, winning 5-1.
Goldsmith looks pretty dead and buried. In fairness he did well to win back the seat after throwing it away in the first place.
Even assuming
1) All signatures are unique 2) All signatures are eligible voters 3) All signatures are really in this constituency 4) All signatures would vote based on this
The number signing is still fewer than the number of Lib Dem votes in 2017, or by definition the number of Goldsmith votes in 2017
To be fair to anyone from the ERG who are belatedly coming around to the idea of potentially backing the MV late after rejecting it before, they are to be fair not the only ones at all in this Parliament who have been holding out for their own preferred option.
I for a long time wanted another option, but I accept that is no longer a possibility.
It is utterly insane that this Wednesday, no more than 2 days before we were scheduled to have left, Parliament is looking at taking indicative votes on SEVEN plus potential options.
Our whole system right now is farcical not just a few people.
Hard to argue with that. The ERG are easy to make the villains here, depending on what options people want, but a lot of the MPs are getting a pass for their 'do it my way or else' attitude, which the smarter ones at least hide as 'don't do it your way do it some other, unspecified or impossible way'.
Yes but the difference is that what the ERG has been campaigning for was easily within reach. They just needed to pluck the fruit in front of them.
The ERG's most egregious sin (and there are many sins) was giving Labour cover not to vote for the deal.
Her goose is almost cooked, lucky for her Record and labour are picking up the tab.
One to bookmark, methinks.
Has he explained the purpose of the reference to homosexuality in his tweet? The suggestion seems to be that if his father had "embraced his homosexuality" then Mr Mundell would not exist. Perhaps it should be explained to this highly unpleasant individual that being homosexual does not automatically mean you will not have children! I think most gay people would regard this tweet as highly offensive.
Top QC enters the fray and explains by telepathy what the person was really thinking.
Comments
They write: "I'm a Labour MP who voted remain, representing a constituency who voted heavily to leave. I'm torn in two.
"I want to be accountable, I want to be involved but I sit uselessly and helplessly trapped in a Commons that is falling to pieces at a time of national crisis.
"I'm one of the 650. We'll all get the blame when the ship sinks, but in truth you might as well have put a dead cat in there instead of me; it would have had as much of a role as I've had in the Brexit discussions.""
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-47696409
I wonder whether 5.3 might be value for TM's exit date as Tory leader being between July & September?
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.125589838
NB Tory conference is 29th Sept - 2nd Oct.
If loads of nationalist switched behind the Alliance candidate, she would lose, but I think that both SDLP and SF want to win this seat.
I think what it is doing is strengthening resolve against an ERG Brexit (or perhaps I should say ERG's Brexit stance last week given that it looks like it could change).
A lot of remainers could live with May's deal or Common Market 2 or some sort of soft Brexit. It is those trying to manipulate us into a No Deal that are fuelling the petition/march activism.
GE in Sept/Oct post Leave. Cons (Canada+) vs Lab (Norway+).
Cons under Gove or Hunt. They win handsomely.
As a Corbynista (sort of) I really hope it does not pan out like this, but I fear it will.
https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=news&q=article 13&src=tyah
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110508997017260032
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-47670309
https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1110502305131122688
However she does have another of those double-barrel names to make fun with, so I would miss Little-Piggy if she is voted out.
Breast ironing awareness should be made part of the mandatory school curriculum to protect young girls from abuse, the National Education Union has said.
The practice involves ironing a girl's chest with hot objects to delay breasts from growing, so she does not attract male attention.
https://www.bbc.com/news/education-47695169
Ilford South (Gapes) only 4.3%
It is grimly amusing (in a very sad way as it will affect all of us ) that all those young people who claim to love the EU are shortly going to find it forced many of their favourite websites like youtube to stop operating or run massively curtailed services.
Mexico's president has sent a letter to Spain's King Felipe VI and Pope Francis urging them to apologise for human rights abuses committed during the conquest of the region 500 years ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-47701876
Are there things that the authorities in parts of what is now Mexico did 600 years ago that they should apologise for?
It is quite a big 'sort of'.
I'm keen for a government that will make a serious attempt to reduce inequality rather than pay lip service to it. So I like the direction of Labour under Corbyn. However I would trade him in for a better model if that were possible.
Loaded? Would not say that, but I can take a hit if needs be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kerB9aOHrs
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-essex-47697159/bus-driver-misjudges-wallasea-island-flood-water
I'm still mad at the Normans.
They were pretty keen on flaying and ripping out childrens' fingernails, in those days.
"In recent weeks there have been an increasing number of mentions in cabinet minutes about how Brexit has to be delivered for the sake of the Conservative Party."
It falls down when they describe the emergency brake (although they do give a verbatim description of the conditions required to trigger it). The mildly disingenuous bit is that they give the impression that it can be triggered at our whim.
I for a long time wanted another option, but I accept that is no longer a possibility.
It is utterly insane that this Wednesday, no more than 2 days before we were scheduled to have left, Parliament is looking at taking indicative votes on SEVEN plus potential options.
Our whole system right now is farcical not just a few people.
Which is hardly a sane system, but its what we have.
https://www.livefrombrexit.com/petitions/241584
No control of our trade policy given the NI border issue - the EU decides that - at least Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein have their own customs controls and can do trade deals
remaining in the single market
No control over our borders - Freedom of movement stays albeit with some nebulous (but in reality never usable) emergency break.
Still subject to the ECJ
Still paying billions into the EU each year.
Its BRINO on steroids and frankly no one would notice any real difference bar us having no direct democratic representation in Brussels when they decide what rules we must follow. It really should be called Vassal State 100.0!
Its Brexit in theory - but remain in all but name.
Theresa May was said to be devastated that the power to bugger up the UK-EU relationship was now vested in people that aren’t her. In better European news, England convincingly thrashed global football titans Montenegro, winning 5-1.
Haven't heard anything about it for a while.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/26/18280726/europe-copyright-directive
1) All signatures are unique
2) All signatures are eligible voters
3) All signatures are really in this constituency
4) All signatures would vote based on this
The number signing is still fewer than the number of Lib Dem votes in 2017, or by definition the number of Goldsmith votes in 2017
"If you can't even convince your own party..."
On the up side, perhaps the youth remain vote will now see the light. :-)
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1110285672974348291?s=20