politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As we approach the slightly later than planned day of reckonin
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Me too.NorthofStoke said:+1 If it is wrecked I'm strongly for revoke.
But please god do it like a man rather than abuse the public with another referendum.0 -
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
An interesting article on Ferrari's problems with tyre usage, for Morris Dancer to digest ahead of next weekend's GP.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/tech-factors-hurt-ferrari-australia/4356509/
Whether it's enough is questionable, but expect the red cars to do better.0 -
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
The backstop is not a function of the red lines. It is there because the EU think there is no guarantee that a suitable agreement obviating the need (as they see it) for border checks will have been reached by the end of the transition period. You can see their point; to put it mildly, recent events won't have encouraged them to see the UK as an entity they can rely on.CarlottaVance said:
The red lines primarily effect the PD, not the WA which is about settling debts and the backstop - which is a function of the red lines. So loosening of the PD would delight the EU - and depending on how loose, may substantially reduce the need for or eliminate the backstop.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Genuine question.bigjohnowls said:Is this the #CorbynsCustomsUnion thread?
when the EU say the current deal is the only deal they can offer and only one possible - is that based on TMay's red-lines basis OR is it the case even if Jezza (but actually Starmer) were doing the negotiations? if the latter then this CCU stuff is as pointless as the unicorns and owls isn't it?0 -
A good kicking to all those people who think they know best. 17 million f offs to you all._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
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Chris Williamson let back inSandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
Tony Blair to be kicked out0 -
Except it hangs on those voting for it having confidence in the government which will administer the period of the WA, and negotiate what is to follow.kinabalu said:Agree with much of the Header but in one important respect I don't.
I view May's Deal as the platform for a 'softish' Brexit that neither panders to Hard Leavers nor tramples roughshod over Remainers.
The only legally binding part of the Deal is the WA, which via the Backstop steers to a closely aligned Future Relationship.
This displeases Hard Leavers, being less than a clean break, and it displeases Hard Remainers, being less than staying in the EU.
It is, in other words, just the sort of compromise that one would have hoped and expected the government to have negotiated.
That confidence is now wholly lacking, so May's deal is going to fail.
Particularly as No Deal is no longer an immediate gun to the head of Parliament (however much it is still a serious risk).
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Hmm, not so sure about that. On past form, MPs will go for an option involving unicorns prancing at the end of a rainbow.CarlottaVance said:0 -
Well your CLP must be an outlier and not only because it opposes a referendum - less than 80 people at a meeting must be very unusual these days - our are closer to 300.bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
Millions of quid in the bank and never doing a days hard graft in your life has that effect._Anazina_ said:
Geri Halliwell looks far, far better now than she did then. She is like a fine wine – she gets better with age.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Pulpstar, stop right now, thank you very much.
[As an aside, Ginger Spice is now married to Red Bull team principal Christian Horner].0 -
A metaphorical kicking I assume..notme2 said:
A good kicking to all those people who think they know best. 17 million f offs to you all._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
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As long as some windows dont get smashed in a place of worship it will all settle down again.FrancisUrquhart said:Sounds like a big anti-terrorist operation in Germany has been going down today,
https://www.fnp.de/frankfurt/frankfurt-hessen-sek-einsatz-nied-heusingerstrasse-zr-11876564.html0 -
They should. It is still their country (unlike some of the run away Leavers), and if their scare stories about food shortages come true, them chortling with pleasure at being proved right in the event of No Deal will be cold comfort to them as an angry mob of citizens mug them for their last tin of baked beans in their house.AlastairMeeks said:
But Richard, it is your problem not Remainers'. Remainers don't have any interest in seeing Brexit work.Richard_Tyndall said:What is so frustrating is that there are some of us on the Leave side who proposed exactly what Alastair is talking about within a day or so of the referendum. But of course we have no power and no political ambition so were never going to be listened to.
It is also worth pointing out that some Remainers' answer to the suggestion that we should treat this as a cross party/cross opinion issue was to say stuff that this will be your problem not ours. Which is hardly on keeping with the sort of reconciliation that Alastair talks about.0 -
FPTBig_G_NorthWales said:
And where is the enabling bill to take part in the EU electionsanothernick said:
We will take part in the election. The 12 April decision will be to extend on the conditions the EU has set, including participation in the election.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And how do we do this with no MEPs. Without MEPs we cannot be in the EUanothernick said:
No, I think that's the likeliest outcome now. May and/or the government will collapse before 12 April, the Commons will vote to accept the EU's proffered longer extension and the EU will agree in the hope that within 9 months the UK will have come up with a coherent way forward. Which will have to involve a general election or referendum or perhaps both.Recidivist said:
They aren't going to get any Brexit.Scott_P said:The ERG are throwing their toys out of the pram.
The DUP are crying No Surrender.
They have both shot their bolt. The best Brexit they can now get is one neither of them wanted.
No flowers...Verulamius said:My reading of the relevant legislation and statutory instruments is that the European Parliament Elections Act 2002 is still partially in force.
This Act is specified in Schedule 9 European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 as an Act due to be repealed. Section 25 specifies that the repeal is only effected on a date that is specified by statutory instrument.
SI 2018/808 specified that section 1A and Schedule 1A of EPEA 2002 was repealed on 4 July 2018. This relates to redistribution of MEP seats.
The remaining Act is repealed on Exit Day (defined as 29 March 2019 at 11pm).
So if Exit Day is changed, for example for a long delay, the provisions of EPEA 2002 remain in force and there is no need for new legislation.
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2018/16/contents
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2018/808/contents/made0 -
Absolutely. No violence, implied or desired.Theuniondivvie said:
A metaphorical kicking I assume..notme2 said:
A good kicking to all those people who think they know best. 17 million f offs to you all._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
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Good. Gives a couple more weeks for my stockpiling if nothing else.Scott_P said:0 -
Nah you don't get out if it that easily. You complain quite rightly in the header about the lack of attempts to build a cross party consensus and then say you would not be open to it anyway. Utter hypocrisy yet again.AlastairMeeks said:
It is the winners' responsibility to establish a consensus. You cannot expect the losers to set the parameters for that or work towards it until the winners see the need for it. They still don't.Richard_Tyndall said:
Which completely undermines everything you said in your article. Are you sure you don't have a split personality?AlastairMeeks said:
But Richard, it is your problem not Remainers'. Remainers don't have any interest in seeing Brexit work.Richard_Tyndall said:What is so frustrating is that there are some of us on the Leave side who proposed exactly what Alastair is talking about within a day or so of the referendum. But of course we have no power and no political ambition so were never going to be listened to.
It is also worth pointing out that some Remainers' answer to the suggestion that we should treat this as a cross party/cross opinion issue was to say stuff that this will be your problem not ours. Which is hardly on keeping with the sort of reconciliation that Alastair talks about.0 -
Is it funny that a comparitive voice of moderation in Brexiteer land at this point is Guido Fawkes? His site is still full of bullish news about the economy and not believing no deal predictions, but also really seems to be pushing the hard line Brexiteers to see that they will probably get nothing if they don't take the (terrible) deal.0
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Whats happened to t'petition stuck on 3,420,786 for 15 mins now0
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The ERG does not yet command a majority in the House of Commons. And I gather some people argue that the legislation on EP elections will not be repealed until the Withdrawal Act comes into effect. I am not a legal expert so I'm not sure about this, but what I am sure about is that neither side is going to make the minutiae of EP elections legislation into an insurmountable obstacle if the UK wants to extend.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Needs majority for it in the HOC. ERG would do everything to sabotage itanothernick said:
Could be rushed through in 24 hours, all the systems needed are there, it has even been rumoured that the Electoral Commission has started planning. Elections can be run very speedily in the UK - before FTPA the formal timetable for a general election could be less than 3 weeks. In Feb 1974 polling day was exactly 3 weeks after the announcement of the election.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And where is the enabling bill to take part in the EU electionsanothernick said:
We will take part in the election. The 12 April decision will be to extend on the conditions the EU has set, including participation in the election.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And how do we do this with no MEPs. Without MEPs we cannot be in the EUanothernick said:
No, I think that's the likeliest outcome now. May and/or the government will collapse before 12 April, the Commons will vote to accept the EU's proffered longer extension and the EU will agree in the hope that within 9 months the UK will have come up with a coherent way forward. Which will have to involve a general election or referendum or perhaps both.Recidivist said:
They aren't going to get any Brexit.Scott_P said:The ERG are throwing their toys out of the pram.
The DUP are crying No Surrender.
They have both shot their bolt. The best Brexit they can now get is one neither of them wanted.
No flowers...0 -
Any residual doubt that the petition hasn't cut through was removed from my mind when I saw this twitter conversation:
https://twitter.com/PensionsDave/status/1108849202887618561
I don't think I've seen any of these three tweet about politics before.0 -
About time somebody did....Scott_P said:0 -
It’s not radical though. It’s (small c) Conservative. The radicals are the no deal Brexit enthusasists. It’s why people like Ross Mogg aren’t Conservatives, they’re obsessive arsonists.rottenborough said:0 -
OK, no takers? I'll tell you - Venezuela.
Venez-fecking-uela.
Exactly what the good folk of Airedale keep asking about on the doorstep.0 -
What an absolutely moronic reason to vote Leave.notme2 said:
A good kicking to all those people who think they know best. 17 million f offs to you all._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
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The deep state.bigjohnowls said:Whats happened to t'petition stuck on 3,420,786 for 15 mins now
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Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.0 -
Again the law stands still and repeal has not come into force. There is no need for an enabling act.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Needs majority for it in the HOC. ERG would do everything to sabotage itanothernick said:
Could be rushed through in 24 hours, all the systems needed are there, it has even been rumoured that the Electoral Commission has started planning. Elections can be run very speedily in the UK - before FTPA the formal timetable for a general election could be less than 3 weeks. In Feb 1974 polling day was exactly 3 weeks after the announcement of the election.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And where is the enabling bill to take part in the EU electionsanothernick said:
We will take part in the election. The 12 April decision will be to extend on the conditions the EU has set, including participation in the election.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And how do we do this with no MEPs. Without MEPs we cannot be in the EUanothernick said:
No, I think that's the likeliest outcome now. May and/or the government will collapse before 12 April, the Commons will vote to accept the EU's proffered longer extension and the EU will agree in the hope that within 9 months the UK will have come up with a coherent way forward. Which will have to involve a general election or referendum or perhaps both.Recidivist said:
They aren't going to get any Brexit.Scott_P said:The ERG are throwing their toys out of the pram.
The DUP are crying No Surrender.
They have both shot their bolt. The best Brexit they can now get is one neither of them wanted.
No flowers...0 -
I was trying to think of how to say this without coming across like somebody who thinks they know best, but we'll done for just saying it._Anazina_ said:
What an absolutely moronic reason to vote Leave.notme2 said:
A good kicking to all those people who think they know best. 17 million f offs to you all._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.0 -
Mr. Anazina, Baby Spice was the best spice.0
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0
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One of many, but that might be the most pleasurable. Seeing the deranged outrage from the Toynbees of this world, about how they'll have to pay more for their 'staff' and a mild inconvenience in using their Tuscan Villa._Anazina_ said:
What an absolutely moronic reason to vote Leave.notme2 said:
A good kicking to all those people who think they know best. 17 million f offs to you all._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
Seventeen million F offs.
(I wouldnt have voted leave if I knew that May would take us out of the Single Market. Utter unnecessary madness)0 -
You remainers will be delighted to know that Montie is getting despondent.
https://twitter.com/montie/status/11091216031729991720 -
Nah Dave was refusing to rule it outnotme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.
I is deffo not Fick0 -
.0
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I think it's going to both fail and succeed. By which I mean the WA will be ratified so that we can leave on 22/5 but agreement on the Future Relationship we are aiming for will be deferred until after a GE in the summer which the Tories will fight (and sadly win) under a new leader, either Johnson or Gove or Raab.Nigelb said:Except it hangs on those voting for it having confidence in the government which will administer the period of the WA, and negotiate what is to follow.
That confidence is now wholly lacking, so May's deal is going to fail.
Particularly as No Deal is no longer an immediate gun to the head of Parliament (however much it is still a serious risk).
Sounds like you think the long extension is where we're going?0 -
Don't know where he's been looking for several months if he's only worried now.Norm said:You remainers will be delighted to know that Montie is getting despondent.
https://twitter.com/montie/status/11091216031729991720 -
I would humbly suggest the good folk of Airedale need to start taking a keen interest in Venezuela. There are lessons to be learnt.SandyRentool said:OK, no takers? I'll tell you - Venezuela.
Venez-fecking-uela.
Exactly what the good folk of Airedale keep asking about on the doorstep.0 -
Fick QCbigjohnowls said:
Nah Dave was refusing to rule it outnotme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.
I is deffo not Fick
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/22/ttip-deal-real-serious-risk-nhs-leading-qc0 -
I don't see how you get a majority to pass legislation to defeat no deal except by Theresa's deal. Yes some Tory MPs will try to vote for such a motion but that is hardly a career enhancing move.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You are correct that no deal is still there but now the HOC are taking over it will be gone soonPulpstar said:
May's abject performance before the EU ruled out "No deal" on March 30th... but it could still reappear by April 12th, it isn't completely out the running yet.AlastairMeeks said:
He does have the air of Captain Mainwaring about him.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
Colour me less than shocked than tactical genius Mark Francois has ballsed it. That (Territorial) Army training was wasted.Sean_F said:FPT, the ERG have blown the hardest Brexit that was on offer, so now they'll be getting something less desirable from their point of view.
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Link ??Philip_Thompson said:
Again the law stands still and repeal has not come into force. There is no need for an enabling act.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Needs majority for it in the HOC. ERG would do everything to sabotage itanothernick said:
Could be rushed through in 24 hours, all the systems needed are there, it has even been rumoured that the Electoral Commission has started planning. Elections can be run very speedily in the UK - before FTPA the formal timetable for a general election could be less than 3 weeks. In Feb 1974 polling day was exactly 3 weeks after the announcement of the election.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And where is the enabling bill to take part in the EU electionsanothernick said:
We will take part in the election. The 12 April decision will be to extend on the conditions the EU has set, including participation in the election.Big_G_NorthWales said:
And how do we do this with no MEPs. Without MEPs we cannot be in the EUanothernick said:
No, I think that's the likeliest outcome now. May and/or the government will collapse before 12 April, the Commons will vote to accept the EU's proffered longer extension and the EU will agree in the hope that within 9 months the UK will have come up with a coherent way forward. Which will have to involve a general election or referendum or perhaps both.Recidivist said:
They aren't going to get any Brexit.Scott_P said:The ERG are throwing their toys out of the pram.
The DUP are crying No Surrender.
They have both shot their bolt. The best Brexit they can now get is one neither of them wanted.
No flowers...0 -
You should have seen on election day, working class men in their early thirties and forties coming to a polling station to do something they have never done before. Asking the staff what to do, do they fold it? do they put in the box?AlastairMeeks said:Any residual doubt that the petition hasn't cut through was removed from my mind when I saw this twitter conversation:
https://twitter.com/PensionsDave/status/1108849202887618561
I don't think I've seen any of these three tweet about politics before.
The referendum had a 75% turnout in my area, at the preceding general election it was 65%, it needs to go back to 1992 to be higher.
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It just shows that Britons lose any thought processes or rationality when the NHS is mentioned. 24 hours to save the NHS, lets give EU payments to the NHS and other simpleminded slogans for simpleminded people,notme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.0 -
Guardian in #fakenews bollocks about the NHS privatisation, who would have thought?bigjohnowls said:
Fick QCbigjohnowls said:
Nah Dave was refusing to rule it outnotme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.
I is deffo not Fick
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/22/ttip-deal-real-serious-risk-nhs-leading-qc0 -
Dave was not a negotiator. Remember, we subcontracted out trade negotiations.bigjohnowls said:
Nah Dave was refusing to rule it outnotme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.
I is deffo not Fick0 -
Should have sorted it by June 2016 thennotme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.
https://fullfact.org/europe/does-ttip-mean-privatisation-nhs/
Wotz yoor reezons Not Me (other than your superior Intellect) and you being able to call Leavers Fick0 -
matt said:
It just shows that Britons lose any thought processes or rationality when the NHS is mentioned. 24 hours to save the NHS, lets give EU payments to the NHS and other simpleminded slogans for simpleminded people,notme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.
Yes, the NHS had been turned into some kind of deity and the Leave campaigned used it to incredible success. That again causes me joy.0 -
The observant amongst you will have noticed that I referenced that song in my header the other day.AlastairMeeks said:
That is indeed the song he references, though he doesn't ask us to tell him what we want, what we really really want.Slackbladder said:
That we need to zig-a-zig-a?AlastairMeeks said:As Brexit gets more surreal, the former Italian Prime Minister has quoted the Spice Girls in support of his argument that Britain needs to rethink:
https://www.ft.com/content/bff3e90a-4c8f-11e9-bde6-79eaea5acb640 -
-
deleted0
-
You nowse besst?notme2 said:
Guardian in #fakenews bollocks about the NHS privatisation, who would have thought?bigjohnowls said:
Fick QCbigjohnowls said:
Nah Dave was refusing to rule it outnotme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.
I is deffo not Fick
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/22/ttip-deal-real-serious-risk-nhs-leading-qc
I think not0 -
And that’s where the concern arisesAlastairMeeks said:
But Richard, it is your problem not Remainers'. Remainers don't have any interest in seeing Brexit work.Richard_Tyndall said:What is so frustrating is that there are some of us on the Leave side who proposed exactly what Alastair is talking about within a day or so of the referendum. But of course we have no power and no political ambition so were never going to be listened to.
It is also worth pointing out that some Remainers' answer to the suggestion that we should treat this as a cross party/cross opinion issue was to say stuff that this will be your problem not ours. Which is hardly on keeping with the sort of reconciliation that Alastair talks about.
The country has chosen to leave the EU, however that is defined
Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Of course you have the right to argue we should rejoin the EU at some point in the future but your argument implies that it is ok to either undermine the UK or to seek to ignore a democratic vote
0 -
"Market access means that monopolies must be abolished. These include public services that are provided by the state or by a limited number of suppliers—like the NHS. If the EU or an individual government doesn't want to open its public services to wider competition, it must specify that they’re not covered.So far the British Government has refused to confirm such an opt out."notme2 said:
Dave was not a negotiator. Remember, we subcontracted out trade negotiations.bigjohnowls said:
Nah Dave was refusing to rule it outnotme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.
I is deffo not Fick
Fact Check June 20160 -
I'm arguing neither of those things. When Leavers are still painting themselves in woad and labelling anyone who argues for any form of engagement with the EU as traitors, there is no obligation on those who do not subscribe to the cult to lend their shoulders to the wheel. If you assess that the best way of making the country as prosperous and successful as possible is to let this fiasco sink under its own weight, that's a respectable position. Let Leavers prove you wrong.Charles said:
And that’s where the concern arisesAlastairMeeks said:
But Richard, it is your problem not Remainers'. Remainers don't have any interest in seeing Brexit work.Richard_Tyndall said:What is so frustrating is that there are some of us on the Leave side who proposed exactly what Alastair is talking about within a day or so of the referendum. But of course we have no power and no political ambition so were never going to be listened to.
It is also worth pointing out that some Remainers' answer to the suggestion that we should treat this as a cross party/cross opinion issue was to say stuff that this will be your problem not ours. Which is hardly on keeping with the sort of reconciliation that Alastair talks about.
The country has chosen to leave the EU, however that is defined
Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Of course you have the right to argue we should rejoin the EU at some point in the future but your argument implies that it is ok to either undermine the UK or to seek to ignore a democratic vote
Let the muppets show themselves up. They've certainly managed that.0 -
The British Government dont have a problem with american corporations bidding for public health contracts. However the EU do and wrote a very specific series of opt outs for public health services.bigjohnowls said:
"Market access means that monopolies must be abolished. These include public services that are provided by the state or by a limited number of suppliers—like the NHS. If the EU or an individual government doesn't want to open its public services to wider competition, it must specify that they’re not covered.So far the British Government has refused to confirm such an opt out."notme2 said:
Dave was not a negotiator. Remember, we subcontracted out trade negotiations.bigjohnowls said:
Nah Dave was refusing to rule it outnotme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.
I is deffo not Fick
Fact Check June 20160 -
The best way to make the country as prosperous and successful as possible is not leave.Charles said:Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Anything that does not advance the cause of leaving meets your moral requirement.0 -
The rate of signatures has not slowed down so far which is surprising. At this rate it will hit 4 million by tonight and 5 million tomorrow afternoon. Hard to say what will be the final number but no doubt it will become the largest petition ever in the UK and one of the largest globally.rottenborough said:
Shome mistake surely? I thought Leavers spent all day looking at Russian-funded FB ads for No Deal?AndyJS said:
Leavers are less likely to be online of course, so it's not a level playing field.bigjohnowls said:Revokers struggling to get 5m
Currently 14m short of 17.4m
0 -
Not only that, but I've always been intrigued *how* TTIP was supposed to result in the NHS being unable to offer public healthcare?notme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.
Having actually read the treaty, it is clear that US healthcare firms would be allowed to bid on public procurement contracts on the same basis as European ones. (In other words, it's a step towards creating a single services market.)
But if an NHS Trust chose to do cleaning itself, they could. All that is prohibited is a tender that said "Hey, we're putting a cleaning contract out to tender. Don't bother to apply if your ultimate parent company is American."0 -
That’s a circular argumentRichard_Nabavi said:
The backstop is not a function of the red lines. It is there because the EU think there is no guarantee that a suitable agreement obviating the need (as they see it) for border checks will have been reached by the end of the transition period. You can see their point; to put it mildly, recent events won't have encouraged them to see the UK as an entity they can rely on.CarlottaVance said:
The red lines primarily effect the PD, not the WA which is about settling debts and the backstop - which is a function of the red lines. So loosening of the PD would delight the EU - and depending on how loose, may substantially reduce the need for or eliminate the backstop.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Genuine question.bigjohnowls said:Is this the #CorbynsCustomsUnion thread?
when the EU say the current deal is the only deal they can offer and only one possible - is that based on TMay's red-lines basis OR is it the case even if Jezza (but actually Starmer) were doing the negotiations? if the latter then this CCU stuff is as pointless as the unicorns and owls isn't it?
If it hadn’t been for the backstop it would of passed easily
So you can use the fact that people hated the backstop as a justification for its existence0 -
You mean the bit at the top of the link:bigjohnowls said:
Should have sorted it by June 2016 thennotme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.
https://fullfact.org/europe/does-ttip-mean-privatisation-nhs/
Wotz yoor reezons Not Me (other than your superior Intellect) and you being able to call Leavers Fick
"The proposed EU-US trade deal known as TTIP might have implications for public services, but EU officials want to include wording designed to keep governments free to run services like the NHS. This should stop the NHS from having to be opened up to US companies, although it may still mean that undoing NHS privatisation in future is more expensive"0 -
Mr. Owls, the NHS was unable to perform a procedure on me within the requisite time (some years ago). Thanks to the reforms of Tony Blair, a private operator did it instead. Thank goodness for the absence of an ideologically driven state monopoly.0
-
For the second week, barely any councillor defections:
Torfaen: Lab to IND
W Oxon: Con to IND0 -
It sounded a bit like Liddington had taken control the other day, when we were hearing about "consultations with all parties" at Downing Street. But no - the Tory party in parliament and government seems more compulsively addicted than ever to anonymous and rumour-mongering briefings about the end of days for May - and then falling in behind her on the TV and radio waves again.tottenhamWC said:
About time somebody did....Scott_P said:0 -
Meanwhile, on the day Meuller is expected Trump throws more of his own administration under the bus...
https://twitter.com/mkraju/status/11091455088225648640 -
Mr. P, would you personally advocate a Parliamentary revocation or aim for that to be achieved via a referendum?0
-
Sporty for me...Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Anazina, Baby Spice was the best spice.
0 -
You got 24 hours to save the NHS!bigjohnowls said:
You nowse besst?notme2 said:
Guardian in #fakenews bollocks about the NHS privatisation, who would have thought?bigjohnowls said:
Fick QCbigjohnowls said:
Nah Dave was refusing to rule it outnotme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.
I is deffo not Fick
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/22/ttip-deal-real-serious-risk-nhs-leading-qc
I think not
I thought Labour just put this out for its less informed members to rile them up, I didnt realise sensible people actually believed all that.0 -
It has passed 3.5 millionkle4 said:
The deep state.bigjohnowls said:Whats happened to t'petition stuck on 3,420,786 for 15 mins now
0 -
You mean the deep state is not able to control us? Damn it.IanB2 said:
It has passed 3.5 millionkle4 said:
The deep state.bigjohnowls said:Whats happened to t'petition stuck on 3,420,786 for 15 mins now
0 -
-
As I mentioned earlier, at the current rate - assuming a lot, but perfectly possible - it will reach 17.4 million after the original deadline, but before the Macron deadline - in about a fortnight.IanB2 said:
It has passed 3.5 millionkle4 said:
The deep state.bigjohnowls said:Whats happened to t'petition stuck on 3,420,786 for 15 mins now
0 -
-
Cherry picking Private operators did very well out of Mr Blair and Mr Milburn.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Owls, the NHS was unable to perform a procedure on me within the requisite time (some years ago). Thanks to the reforms of Tony Blair, a private operator did it instead. Thank goodness for the absence of an ideologically driven state monopoly.
Waiting times/lists were at a ridiculous level and the NHS had no additional capacity
PCTs paid private operators a premium to do easy stuff
Private operators not interested in complex stuff
I think this was reason DrFox left Labour twas a scandal0 -
Would it be worthwhile if everyone got their people's vote march comments out the way now?
I cannot believe it reached a million/numbers were inflated and that it means so much/little.
Actually it will be pretty symbolic, and support is probably gathering steam - another thing MPs who claim to want to leave could have stopped, rather than trying to run the clock down even more than May.
Let's limp over the line was not a very smart strategy.0 -
No. You said very simply that you have no interest in making the democratic choice of the country workableAlastairMeeks said:
I'm arguing neither of those things. When Leavers are still painting themselves in woad and labelling anyone who argues for any form of engagement with the EU as traitors, there is no obligation on those who do not subscribe to the cult to lend their shoulders to the wheel. If you assess that the best way of making the country as prosperous and successful as possible is to let this fiasco sink under its own weight, that's a respectable position. Let Leavers prove you wrong.Charles said:
And that’s where the concern arisesAlastairMeeks said:
But Richard, it is your problem not Remainers'. Remainers don't have any interest in seeing Brexit work.Richard_Tyndall said:What is so frustrating is that there are some of us on the Leave side who proposed exactly what Alastair is talking about within a day or so of the referendum. But of course we have no power and no political ambition so were never going to be listened to.
It is also worth pointing out that some Remainers' answer to the suggestion that we should treat this as a cross party/cross opinion issue was to say stuff that this will be your problem not ours. Which is hardly on keeping with the sort of reconciliation that Alastair talks about.
The country has chosen to leave the EU, however that is defined
Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Of course you have the right to argue we should rejoin the EU at some point in the future but your argument implies that it is ok to either undermine the UK or to seek to ignore a democratic vote
Let the muppets show themselves up. They've certainly managed that.
Your arrogance is distasteful, sir0 -
Not if it undermines democracy.Scott_P said:
The best way to make the country as prosperous and successful as possible is not leave.Charles said:Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Anything that does not advance the cause of leaving meets your moral requirement.
But you are well known for loving partial quotations to misrepresent other people’s positions0 -
Which bit of an individual Government is your superiority missing.notme2 said:
The British Government dont have a problem with american corporations bidding for public health contracts. However the EU do and wrote a very specific series of opt outs for public health services.bigjohnowls said:
"Market access means that monopolies must be abolished. These include public services that are provided by the state or by a limited number of suppliers—like the NHS. If the EU or an individual government doesn't want to open its public services to wider competition, it must specify that they’re not covered.So far the British Government has refused to confirm such an opt out."notme2 said:
Dave was not a negotiator. Remember, we subcontracted out trade negotiations.bigjohnowls said:
Nah Dave was refusing to rule it outnotme2 said:
Jesus, some leavers actually are thick. The EU chief negotiator already made it quite clear that TTIP would not impact on the ability of public health care systems to retain their existing nationalised status and would be exempt.bigjohnowls said:
My original reason was to stop TTIP being a way of passing the NHS to huge American Corporations and to be able to sack our Lawmakers._Anazina_ said:
Just out of interest, what is your reason for being a Leaver? What do you hope to get out of it?bigjohnowls said:
Ours had one on a 2nd Referendum defeated 17 to 62SandyRentool said:
No prizes for guessing what our CLP had a motion on last month. Special prize for guessing the previous month's topic...Philip_Thompson said:
PalestineRecidivist said:
I'll be marching tomorrow. There is only one issue on the agenda at the moment.bigjohnowls said:Out Canvassing tomorrow.
Its a bad time BREXIT and Local Elections don't mix
Sincerely yours,
Jeremy Corbyn.
I also forsaw a bit of Tory Chaos but expect Remain would have also seen that.
TBH the UKIP boil needed lancing too
Maybe someone should have stuck it on a bus and you wouldnt have believed it.
I is deffo not Fick
Fact Check June 20160 -
23,087 people have signed the petition in Bristol West so far.
https://petitionmap.unboxedconsulting.com/?petition=2415840 -
The EMA has gone, so whatever else happens, your democratic vote will have left its mark.Charles said:
Not if it undermines democracy.Scott_P said:
The best way to make the country as prosperous and successful as possible is not leave.Charles said:Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Anything that does not advance the cause of leaving meets your moral requirement.
But you are well known for loving partial quotations to misrepresent other people’s positions0 -
If you don't think it's workable as secured there is no moral requirement to engage in a fools' errand, especially one won in such a malign fashion. If those who won the referendum have no interest in your perspective, there is no moral requirement to offer it when it is unwanted.Charles said:
No. You said very simply that you have no interest in making the democratic choice of the country workableAlastairMeeks said:
I'm arguing neither of those things. When Leavers are still painting themselves in woad and labelling anyone who argues for any form of engagement with the EU as traitors, there is no obligation on those who do not subscribe to the cult to lend their shoulders to the wheel. If you assess that the best way of making the country as prosperous and successful as possible is to let this fiasco sink under its own weight, that's a respectable position. Let Leavers prove you wrong.Charles said:
And that’s where the concern arisesAlastairMeeks said:
But Richard, it is your problem not Remainers'. Remainers don't have any interest in seeing Brexit work.Richard_Tyndall said:What is so frustrating is that there are some of us on the Leave side who proposed exactly what Alastair is talking about within a day or so of the referendum. But of course we have no power and no political ambition so were never going to be listened to.
It is also worth pointing out that some Remainers' answer to the suggestion that we should treat this as a cross party/cross opinion issue was to say stuff that this will be your problem not ours. Which is hardly on keeping with the sort of reconciliation that Alastair talks about.
The country has chosen to leave the EU, however that is defined
Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Of course you have the right to argue we should rejoin the EU at some point in the future but your argument implies that it is ok to either undermine the UK or to seek to ignore a democratic vote
Let the muppets show themselves up. They've certainly managed that.
Your arrogance is distasteful, sir
You can't force people who think that the chosen course of action is malign and idiotic to assist you. You especially can't force them if you're calling them quislings and doubting their patriotism.0 -
If you consider a task virtually impossible the only thing you can do is sit and watch those in favour prove you wrong. Brexit wasn’t impossible, but as soon as May triggered Article 50 without even detailing our own position properly, let alone attempting some form of domestic consensus, it became so. “Citizens of nowhere” was the point she lost us.AlastairMeeks said:
I'm arguing neither of those things. When Leavers are still painting themselves in woad and labelling anyone who argues for any form of engagement with the EU as traitors, there is no obligation on those who do not subscribe to the cult to lend their shoulders to the wheel. If you assess that the best way of making the country as prosperous and successful as possible is to let this fiasco sink under its own weight, that's a respectable position. Let Leavers prove you wrong.Charles said:
And that’s where the concern arisesAlastairMeeks said:
But Richard, it is your problem not Remainers'. Remainers don't have any interest in seeing Brexit work.Richard_Tyndall said:What is so frustrating is that there are some of us on the Leave side who proposed exactly what Alastair is talking about within a day or so of the referendum. But of course we have no power and no political ambition so were never going to be listened to.
It is also worth pointing out that some Remainers' answer to the suggestion that we should treat this as a cross party/cross opinion issue was to say stuff that this will be your problem not ours. Which is hardly on keeping with the sort of reconciliation that Alastair talks about.
The country has chosen to leave the EU, however that is defined
Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Of course you have the right to argue we should rejoin the EU at some point in the future but your argument implies that it is ok to either undermine the UK or to seek to ignore a democratic vote
Let the muppets show themselves up. They've certainly managed that.
Kennedy could have won a referendum to implement the Apollo Program, but if NASA had tried to implement the result within 2 years rather than the near decade it took them to get men on the moon, then they would have failed as well, and no sane rocket scientist would have joined in the project. I’m no rocket scientist but even I could see, as did many others, that the rush to do this without planning, essentially winging it, has precipitated this disaster.0 -
A majority of people voted for change.williamglenn said:
The EMA has gone, so whatever else happens, your democratic vote will have left its mark.Charles said:
Not if it undermines democracy.Scott_P said:
The best way to make the country as prosperous and successful as possible is not leave.Charles said:Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Anything that does not advance the cause of leaving meets your moral requirement.
But you are well known for loving partial quotations to misrepresent other people’s positions0 -
0
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Brexit became unworkable on 29 March 2017. May lost the chance to get remainers on board a few months earlier with “citizens of nowhere”. You call people disloyal, traitorous even, and then act offended when they don’t do as you wish?AlastairMeeks said:
If you don't think it's workable as secured there is no moral requirement to engage in a fools' errand, especially one won in such a malign fashion. If those who won the referendum have no interest in your perspective, there is no moral requirement to offer it when it is unwanted.Charles said:
No. You said very simply that you have no interest in making the democratic choice of the country workableAlastairMeeks said:
I'm arguing neither of those things. When Leavers are still painting themselves in woad and labelling anyone who argues for any form of engagement with the EU as traitors, there is no obligation on those who do not subscribe to the cult to lend their shoulders to the wheel. If you assess that the best way of making the country as prosperous and successful as possible is to let this fiasco sink under its own weight, that's a respectable position. Let Leavers prove you wrong.Charles said:
And that’s where the concern arisesAlastairMeeks said:
But Richard, it is your problem not Remainers'. Remainers don't have any interest in seeing Brexit work.Richard_Tyndall said:What is so frustrating is that there are some of us on the Leave side who proposed exactly what Alastair is talking about within a day or so of the referendum. But of course we have no power and no political ambition so were never going to be listened to.
It is also worth pointing out that some Remainers' answer to the suggestion that we should treat this as a cross party/cross opinion issue was to say stuff that this will be your problem not ours. Which is hardly on keeping with the sort of reconciliation that Alastair talks about.
The country has chosen to leave the EU, however that is defined
Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Of course you have the right to argue we should rejoin the EU at some point in the future but your argument implies that it is ok to either undermine the UK or to seek to ignore a democratic vote
Let the muppets show themselves up. They've certainly managed that.
Your arrogance is distasteful, sir
You can't force people who think that the chosen course of action is malign and idiotic to assist you. You especially can't force them if you're calling them quislings and doubting their patriotism.0 -
I missed the news earlier about the MP pleading guilty to fraud - are they likely to receive a sentence long enough to guarantee a by-election, or we will be relying on their good nature like Onasanya?0
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Perhaps we could ask them again if this is the change they really wanted. More democracy is better, surely?Charles said:
A majority of people voted for change.williamglenn said:
The EMA has gone, so whatever else happens, your democratic vote will have left its mark.Charles said:
Not if it undermines democracy.Scott_P said:
The best way to make the country as prosperous and successful as possible is not leave.Charles said:Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Anything that does not advance the cause of leaving meets your moral requirement.
But you are well known for loving partial quotations to misrepresent other people’s positions0 -
There is a moral requirement to accept the democratic result of a referendum and to seek to optimise the outcome within the framework voted for.AlastairMeeks said:
If you don't think it's workable as secured there is no moral requirement to engage in a fools' errand, especially one won in such a malign fashion. If those who won the referendum have no interest in your perspective, there is no moral requirement to offer it when it is unwanted.Charles said:
No. You said very simply that you have no interest in making the democratic choice of the country workableAlastairMeeks said:
I'm arguing neither of those things. When Leavers are still painting themselves in woad and labelling anyone who argues for any form of engagement with the EU as traitors, there is no obligation on those who do not subscribe to the cult to lend their shoulders to the wheel. If you assess that the best way of making the country as prosperous and successful as possible is to let this fiasco sink under its own weight, that's a respectable position. Let Leavers prove you wrong.Charles said:
And that’s where the concern arisesAlastairMeeks said:
But Richard, it is your problem not Remainers'. Remainers don't have any interest in seeing Brexit work.Richard_Tyndall said:What is so frustrating is that there are some of us on the Leave side who proposed exactly what Alastair is talking about within a day or so of the referendum. But of course we have no power and no political ambition so were never going to be listened to.
It is also worth pointing out that some Remainers' answer to the suggestion that we should treat this as a cross party/cross opinion issue was to say stuff that this will be your problem not ours. Which is hardly on keeping with the sort of reconciliation that Alastair talks about.
The country has chosen to leave the EU, however that is defined
Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Of course you have the right to argue we should rejoin the EU at some point in the future but your argument implies that it is ok to either undermine the UK or to seek to ignore a democratic vote
Let the muppets show themselves up. They've certainly managed that.
Your arrogance is distasteful, sir
You can't force people who think that the chosen course of action is malign and idiotic to assist you. You especially can't force them if you're calling them quislings and doubting their patriotism.0 -
Not sure about the maths there. The rate of votes added is around 1 million every 12 hours. At that rate the 17.4 million will hit on the 29th March late evening.WhisperingOracle said:
As I mentioned earlier, at the current rate - assuming a lot, but perfectly possible - it will reach 17.4 million after the original deadline, but before the Macron deadline - in about a fortnight.IanB2 said:
It has passed 3.5 millionkle4 said:
The deep state.bigjohnowls said:Whats happened to t'petition stuck on 3,420,786 for 15 mins now
At some point we will hit saturation in certain areas. Bristol West is now at 16% and leads closely from Edinburgh North. Areas such as South Yorkshire are the home of Brexit and sit at around 2%.
0 -
“Because it's the Change the UK deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt it. Because it can take it. Because it's not our Change. It's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. A Deal Knight.”matt said:
Perhaps we could ask them again if this is the change they really wanted. More democracy is better, surely?Charles said:
A majority of people voted for change.williamglenn said:
The EMA has gone, so whatever else happens, your democratic vote will have left its mark.Charles said:
Not if it undermines democracy.Scott_P said:
The best way to make the country as prosperous and successful as possible is not leave.Charles said:Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Anything that does not advance the cause of leaving meets your moral requirement.
But you are well known for loving partial quotations to misrepresent other people’s positions0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfb2fwXxCo0bigjohnowls said:Not sure we are going to resolve this without bloodshed TBH
hth0 -
To accept it? Yes. To work to optimise something you consider misconceived and malign? No.Charles said:
There is a moral requirement to accept the democratic result of a referendum and to seek to optimise the outcome within the framework voted for.AlastairMeeks said:
If you don't think it's workable as secured there is no moral requirement to engage in a fools' errand, especially one won in such a malign fashion. If those who won the referendum have no interest in your perspective, there is no moral requirement to offer it when it is unwanted.Charles said:
No. You said very simply that you have no interest in making the democratic choice of the country workableAlastairMeeks said:
I'm arguing neither of those things. When Leavers are still painting themselves in woad and labelling anyone who argues for any form of engagement with the EU as traitors, there is no obligation on those who do not subscribe to the cult to lend their shoulders to the wheel. If you assess that the best way of making the country as prosperous and successful as possible is to let this fiasco sink under its own weight, that's a respectable position. Let Leavers prove you wrong.Charles said:
And that’s where the concern arisesAlastairMeeks said:
But Richard, it is your problem not Remainers'. Remainers don't have any interest in seeing Brexit work.Richard_Tyndall said:What is so frustrating is that there are some of us on the Leave side who proposed exactly what Alastair is talking about within a day or so of the referendum. But of course we have no power and no political ambition so were never going to be listened to.
It is also worth pointing out that some Remainers' answer to the suggestion that we should treat this as a cross party/cross opinion issue was to say stuff that this will be your problem not ours. Which is hardly on keeping with the sort of reconciliation that Alastair talks about.
The country has chosen to leave the EU, however that is defined
Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Of course you have the right to argue we should rejoin the EU at some point in the future but your argument implies that it is ok to either undermine the UK or to seek to ignore a democratic vote
Let the muppets show themselves up. They've certainly managed that.
Your arrogance is distasteful, sir
You can't force people who think that the chosen course of action is malign and idiotic to assist you. You especially can't force them if you're calling them quislings and doubting their patriotism.0 -
Dear heaven:
Labour Party chairman Ian Lavery, MP for Northumberland, also called on Davies to quit.
He said: "Trust in politics and politicians is essential to our democracy. Chris Davies cannot remain a Tory MP after admitting to this offence."
While Chris Davies clearly behaved extremely stupidly, and should probably resign, does what he did compare in the slightest way to this:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41688280
Ian Lavery accusing somebody else of acting dishonestly and corroding trust in democracy is the equivalent of Mao Zedong accusing somebody of not understanding ecology, or Hugo Chavez accusing somebody of trying to buy votes.0 -
BollocksDougSeal said:
Brexit became unworkable on 29 March 2017. May lost the chance to get remainers on board a few months earlier with “citizens of nowhere”. You call people disloyal, traitorous even, and then act offended when they don’t do as you wish?AlastairMeeks said:
If you don't think it's workable as secured there is no moral requirement to engage in a fools' errand, especially one won in such a malign fashion. If those who won the referendum have no interest in your perspective, there is no moral requirement to offer it when it is unwanted.Charles said:
No. You said very simply that you have no interest in making the democratic choice of the country workableAlastairMeeks said:
I'm arguing neither of those things. When Leavers are still painting themselves in woad and labelling anyone who argues for any form of engagement with the EU as traitors, there is no obligation on those who do not subscribe to the cult to lend their shoulders to the wheel. If you assess that the best way of making the country as prosperous and successful as possible is to let this fiasco sink under its own weight, that's a respectable position. Let Leavers prove you wrong.Charles said:
And that’s where the concern arisesAlastairMeeks said:
But Richard, it is your problem not Remainers'. Remainers don't have any interest in seeing Brexit work.Richard_Tyndall said:What is so frustrating is that there are some of us on the Leave side who proposed exactly what Alastair is talking about within a day or so of the referendum. But of course we have no power and no political ambition so were never going to be listened to.
I
The country has chosen to leave the EU, however that is defined
Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Of course you have the right to argue we should rejoin the EU at some point in the future but your argument implies that it is ok to either undermine the UK or to seek to ignore a democratic vote
Let the muppets show themselves up. They've certainly managed that.
Your arrogance is distasteful, sir
You can't force people who think that the chosen course of action is malign and idiotic to assist you. You especially can't force them if you're calling them quislings and doubting their patriotism.
Malign individuals deliberately misrepresented what she meant by “citizens of nowhere” - it was tax-dodging individuals and companies not ordinary Remain voters. Sadly people like you fell for it.0 -
Would you like to tell the ERG that, please?Charles said:
There is a moral requirement to accept the democratic result of a referendum and to seek to optimise the outcome within the framework voted for.AlastairMeeks said:
If you don't think it's workable as secured there is no moral requirement to engage in a fools' errand, especially one won in such a malign fashion. If those who won the referendum have no interest in your perspective, there is no moral requirement to offer it when it is unwanted.Charles said:
No. You said very simply that you have no interest in making the democratic choice of the country workableAlastairMeeks said:
I'm arguing neither of those things. When Leavers are still painting themselves in woad and labelling anyone who argues for any form of engagement with the EU as traitors, there is no obligation on those who do not subscribe to the cult to lend their shoulders to the wheel. If you assess that the best way of making the country as prosperous and successful as possible is to let this fiasco sink under its own weight, that's a respectable position. Let Leavers prove you wrong.Charles said:
And that’s where the concern arisesAlastairMeeks said:
But Richard, it is your problem not Remainers'. Remainers don't have any interest in seeing Brexit work.Richard_Tyndall said:What is so frustrating is that there are some of us on the Leave side who proposed exactly what Alastair is talking about within a day or so of the referendum. But of course we have no power and no political ambition so were never going to be listened to.
It is also worth pointing out that some Remainers' answer to the suggestion that we should treat this as a cross party/cross opinion issue was to say stuff that this will be your problem not ours. Which is hardly on keeping with the sort of reconciliation that Alastair talks about.
The country has chosen to leave the EU, however that is defined
Within that framework you have a moral obligation to try and make the country as prosperous and successful as possible.
Of course you have the right to argue we should rejoin the EU at some point in the future but your argument implies that it is ok to either undermine the UK or to seek to ignore a democratic vote
Let the muppets show themselves up. They've certainly managed that.
Your arrogance is distasteful, sir
You can't force people who think that the chosen course of action is malign and idiotic to assist you. You especially can't force them if you're calling them quislings and doubting their patriotism.0
This discussion has been closed.