politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » On the betting markets it’s now a 74% chance that TMay will go
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More unhelpful. The ERG have compromised, eg backing the Brady amendment, Grieve has not.Norm said:
Grieve has been every bit as unhelpful to the process as the most intransigent ERGer.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He needs to go thenCarlottaVance said:0 -
A thousand comments on one thread. Slow news day!0
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C4 saying PM will call GE if MV3 is defeated...0
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If this got millions of signatures it could have a big impact. In fact if it got more than 17M ...Recidivist said:
A lot of people agree.Fenman said:We need to revoke Article 50 now. This is no longer amusing.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
The votes are piling up so quickly people are taking video screenshots and putting them online.0 -
Making it a vote of confidence is bravedixiedean said:C4 saying PM will call GE if MV3 is defeated...
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Yes if we had set out to join EFTA right from the beginning we would not be where we are today. The ultra leavers and ultra remainers in the party have a lot to answer for.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I don't mind some of them going as well !!!Norm said:
Grieve has been every bit as unhelpful to the process as the most intransigent ERGer.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He needs to go thenCarlottaVance said:0 -
Well I can make an exception for you if you like! There are some Brexiteers on here that are perfectly pleasant and make rational comments, even though I disagree with them. Then there are the likes of yourself and Richard Tyndall, and now Mr Tredifficile.Tykejohnno said:
"I don't normally enjoy being rude to people"Nigel_Foremain said:
Well you must be pals because you also resort to personal abuse. He said he was a member of UKIP. Support for an outcome would be different. There are plenty of people who have differing views on here and they can be respected. Richard is not one that I can have any respect for, particularly with such a ridiculous position as that. I don't normally enjoy being rude to people, but he is clearly unpleasant so deserves it. So no, I am not the one being a dick here, dickhead!TrèsDifficile said:@Nigel_Foremain you're making a complete dick of yourself re @Richard_Tyndall - he's always been very clear in his support for freedom of movement, he just wanted to leave the EU. Supporting UKIP in that aim was the only route to it.
Hahahaha0 -
Surely it will be voted down? Labour want a GE and what on earth does the ERG have to fear about a GE?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Making it a vote of confidence is bravedixiedean said:C4 saying PM will call GE if MV3 is defeated...
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Yes. But maybe other people feel like I do. I've given it enough respect. If three years on the leavers still don't know what they want then the moment has passed. We need to stop. Brexit is unworkable.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It seems the natural response to those who want to remain and see their hope of a referendum disappearRecidivist said:
A lot of people agree.Fenman said:We need to revoke Article 50 now. This is no longer amusing.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
The votes are piling up so quickly people are taking video screenshots and putting them online.0 -
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Leave won. It’s entirely down to them.Norm said:
Yes if we had set out to join EFTA right from the beginning we would not be where we are today. The ultra leavers and ultra remainers in the party have a lot to answer for.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I don't mind some of them going as well !!!Norm said:
Grieve has been every bit as unhelpful to the process as the most intransigent ERGer.Big_G_NorthWales said:
He needs to go thenCarlottaVance said:0 -
Many do not including TIG and lots in marginal seatsGallowgate said:
Surely it will be voted down? Labour want a GE and what on earth does the ERG have to fear about a GE?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Making it a vote of confidence is bravedixiedean said:C4 saying PM will call GE if MV3 is defeated...
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TIG are not going to vote for the deal, let's be real, and most marginal torys are already voting for the deal.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many do not including TIG and lots in marginal seatsGallowgate said:
Surely it will be voted down? Labour want a GE and what on earth does the ERG have to fear about a GE?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Making it a vote of confidence is bravedixiedean said:C4 saying PM will call GE if MV3 is defeated...
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I have no problem with people trying to get us to remain. I think we need to remain as well. But I regard Grieve as one of the most hypocritical actors in this whole affair, and I think people are giving him a free pass because he is articulate and they like what he says, nothing more, nothing less. Him believing something is meaningless, because others think what he has done is damaging the country, and I doubt you agree with that.Nigel_Foremain said:
Can't agree with you Mr. kle4. You might not like what he has done, but he has been holding the PM to account while she has drifted inexorably in the direction of the ERG. For that he has done parliament and the country good service. He is a man of conscience and he believes what she has done has damaged the country.kle4 said:
He has been clear since that nothing the PM could achieve would be good enough for him. He should have been honest from the start. Carefully worded statements were not needed.Nigel_Foremain said:
Nothing contradictory in that statement if you read it properly.TrèsDifficile said:x
"As someone whech at Lancaster House in February."Nigel_Foremain said:
Sorry Philip, but the idea that all MPs should robotically fall into line with a manifesto, particularly when they may have been an MP for a long time is just silly. Our (rather broken) system attempts to present a manifesto for the executive through it's MPs. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of MPs over the years who have not rigidly stuck to the manifesto of the front bench, and quite rightly so.Philip_Thompson said:
He's upset he's lost?IanB2 said:Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party"
"What is the purpose of this government?"
"Trust and credibility in this government is running out"
"We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
The purpose of this government is to enact Brexit. He should know that, its the manifesto he stood on last time.
EDIT: And why hasn't he quit to join TIG if that's how he feels?
Dominic Grieve 2/5/170 -
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As a matter of interest did you vote remainRecidivist said:
Yes. But maybe other people feel like I do. I've given it enough respect. If three years on the leavers still don't know what they want then the moment has passed. We need to stop. Brexit is unworkable.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It seems the natural response to those who want to remain and see their hope of a referendum disappearRecidivist said:
A lot of people agree.Fenman said:We need to revoke Article 50 now. This is no longer amusing.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
The votes are piling up so quickly people are taking video screenshots and putting them online.0 -
Yes, the deal is going backwards. Sticking with it, or not making it to be confirmed by referendum, is just being unhelpful now.dixiedean said:
LOL. And btw Grieve and Trevelyan even more determined to vote against now.kle4 said:
Seems as good an excuse as any to bring back my theoretical conversation between party leaders at the suggestion they get locked together in a room to figure something out.dixiedean said:
Depends what it is of course. More likely nowt will come of it.williamglenn said:
The backlash against Labour for backing something like that would be immense.Scott_P said:
A compromise to the PM means everyone deciding to agree with her.
May: You must do as I say
Corbyn: You must do as I say
Blackford: You must do as I say
Saville-Roberts: You must do as the SNP say
Lucas: You must do as..wait, why am I even here?
Dodds: Never, never...
May: We've not discussed any options yet...
Dodds: Don't interrupt me. Ahem. Never!
May: *sigh*. Someone wake up Vince please.
Umunna: I'll do it.
All: Who the f*ck invited the Tiggers?
But yeah, we know nothing will come of this.0 -
Come on Nigel,when you started to show up on here,you were rude to most leavers and the SNP posters.Nigel_Foremain said:
Well I can make an exception for you if you like! There are some Brexiteers on here that are perfectly pleasant and make rational comments, even though I disagree with them. Then there are the likes of yourself and Richard Tyndall, and now Mr Tredifficile.Tykejohnno said:
"I don't normally enjoy being rude to people"Nigel_Foremain said:
Well you must be pals because you also resort to personal abuse. He said he was a member of UKIP. Support for an outcome would be different. There are plenty of people who have differing views on here and they can be respected. Richard is not one that I can have any respect for, particularly with such a ridiculous position as that. I don't normally enjoy being rude to people, but he is clearly unpleasant so deserves it. So no, I am not the one being a dick here, dickhead!TrèsDifficile said:@Nigel_Foremain you're making a complete dick of yourself re @Richard_Tyndall - he's always been very clear in his support for freedom of movement, he just wanted to leave the EU. Supporting UKIP in that aim was the only route to it.
Hahahaha
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This seems pretty damning for Boeing, and for the regulators:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/20/lion-air-pilots-were-looking-at-handbook-when-plane-crashed
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TIG may not want a GE, but they also took action to likely shorten their political careers by quitting their parties so that they could more actively push for remaining. If the two come into conflict they'd rather a GE than the deal.Gallowgate said:
TIG are not going to vote for the deal, let's be real, and most marginal torys are already voting for the deal.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many do not including TIG and lots in marginal seatsGallowgate said:
Surely it will be voted down? Labour want a GE and what on earth does the ERG have to fear about a GE?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Making it a vote of confidence is bravedixiedean said:C4 saying PM will call GE if MV3 is defeated...
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I did.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a matter of interest did you vote remainRecidivist said:
Yes. But maybe other people feel like I do. I've given it enough respect. If three years on the leavers still don't know what they want then the moment has passed. We need to stop. Brexit is unworkable.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It seems the natural response to those who want to remain and see their hope of a referendum disappearRecidivist said:
A lot of people agree.Fenman said:We need to revoke Article 50 now. This is no longer amusing.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
The votes are piling up so quickly people are taking video screenshots and putting them online.0 -
I was talking about a GEGallowgate said:
TIG are not going to vote for the deal, let's be real, and most marginal torys are already voting for the deal.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many do not including TIG and lots in marginal seatsGallowgate said:
Surely it will be voted down? Labour want a GE and what on earth does the ERG have to fear about a GE?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Making it a vote of confidence is bravedixiedean said:C4 saying PM will call GE if MV3 is defeated...
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Hmm, I can't I am afraid, I think he has genuinely done what he thinks is right from what I can see. I can't sadly, even agree that we should now remain, as I think it will take generations for us to repair our relationship with Europe after this debacle. I hope we end up with Norway + or something like that. Try and minimise the disruption and give future generations a chance to go back in.kle4 said:
I have no problem with people trying to get us to remain. I think we need to remain as well. But I regard Grieve as one of the most hypocritical actors in this whole affair, and I think people are giving him a free pass because he is articulate and they like what he says, nothing more, nothing less. Him believing something is meaningless, because others think what he has done is damaging the country, and I doubt you agree with that.Nigel_Foremain said:
Can't agree with you Mr. kle4. You might not like what he has done, but he has been holding the PM to account while she has drifted inexorably in the direction of the ERG. For that he has done parliament and the country good service. He is a man of conscience and he believes what she has done has damaged the country.kle4 said:
He has been clear since that nothing the PM could achieve would be good enough for him. He should have been honest from the start. Carefully worded statements were not needed.Nigel_Foremain said:
Nothing contradictory in that statement if you read it properly.TrèsDifficile said:x
"As someone whech at Lancaster House in February."Nigel_Foremain said:
Sorry Philip, but the idea that all MPs should robotically fall into line with a manifesto, particularly when they may have been an MP for a long time is just silly. Our (rather broken) system attempts to present a manifesto for the executive through it's MPs. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of MPs over the years who have not rigidly stuck to the manifesto of the front bench, and quite rightly so.Philip_Thompson said:
He's upset he's lost?IanB2 said:Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party"
"What is the purpose of this government?"
"Trust and credibility in this government is running out"
"We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
The purpose of this government is to enact Brexit. He should know that, its the manifesto he stood on last time.
EDIT: And why hasn't he quit to join TIG if that's how he feels?
Dominic Grieve 2/5/170 -
It's not in her gift. But then neither is much else at the moment.dixiedean said:C4 saying PM will call GE if MV3 is defeated...
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Would be ironic if Ummuna et al storm out of Labour cos Corbyns too Leavey. Then vote for the deal...won't happen.Gallowgate said:
TIG are not going to vote for the deal, let's be real, and most marginal torys are already voting for the deal.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Many do not including TIG and lots in marginal seatsGallowgate said:
Surely it will be voted down? Labour want a GE and what on earth does the ERG have to fear about a GE?Big_G_NorthWales said:
Making it a vote of confidence is bravedixiedean said:C4 saying PM will call GE if MV3 is defeated...
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So has May. So has Corbyn. So has Rees-Mogg.Nigel_Foremain said:
I think he has genuinely done what he thinks is right from what I can see.kle4 said:
I have no problem with people trying to get us to remain. I think we need to remain as well. But I regard Grieve as one of the most hypocritical actors in this whole affair, and I think people are giving him a free pass because he is articulate and they like what he says, nothing more, nothing less. Him believing something is meaningless, because others think what he has done is damaging the country, and I doubt you agree with that.Nigel_Foremain said:
Can't agree with you Mr. kle4. You might not like what he has done, but he has been holding the PM to account while she has drifted inexorably in the direction of the ERG. For that he has done parliament and the country good service. He is a man of conscience and he believes what she has done has damaged the country.kle4 said:
He has been clear since that nothing the PM could achieve would be good enough for him. He should have been honest from the start. Carefully worded statements were not needed.Nigel_Foremain said:
Nothing contradictory in that statement if you read it properly.TrèsDifficile said:x
"As someone whech at Lancaster House in February."Nigel_Foremain said:
Sorry Philip, but the idea that all MPs should robotically fall into line with a manifesto, particularly when they may have been an MP for a long time is just silly. Our (rather broken) system attempts to present a manifesto for the executive through it's MPs. There are probably hundreds, if not thousands, of MPs over the years who have not rigidly stuck to the manifesto of the front bench, and quite rightly so.Philip_Thompson said:
He's upset he's lost?IanB2 said:Grieve: "never been more ashamed to be a member of the Conservative party"
"What is the purpose of this government?"
"Trust and credibility in this government is running out"
"We are going to spiral down into oblivion, and the worst part is that we will deserve it"
The purpose of this government is to enact Brexit. He should know that, its the manifesto he stood on last time.
EDIT: And why hasn't he quit to join TIG if that's how he feels?
Dominic Grieve 2/5/17
Do they get a pass when they are fanatically stubborn? Particularly when in being so stubborn they may cause what they say they do not want? He is no different to them, and being intelligent and saying things people in one camp want to hear doesn't change that.
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You are the one who started the exchanges by accusing me of being a BNP supporter. I would suggest anything you get in return is fully justified. Rudeness on here is probably excusable. Being wilfully dumb is not.Nigel_Foremain said:
Well you must be pals because you also resort to personal abuse. He said he was a member of UKIP. Support for an outcome would be different. There are plenty of people who have differing views on here and they can be respected. Richard is not one that I can have any respect for, particularly with such a ridiculous position as that. I don't normally enjoy being rude to people, but he is clearly unpleasant so deserves it. So no, I am not the one being a dick here, dickhead!TrèsDifficile said:@Nigel_Foremain you're making a complete dick of yourself re @Richard_Tyndall - he's always been very clear in his support for freedom of movement, he just wanted to leave the EU. Supporting UKIP in that aim was the only route to it.
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As did I and I am conflicted by brexit but I still believe we must exit due to the democratic vote and accept that the choice post brexit is to make the best of it or campaign to rejoinRecidivist said:
I did.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a matter of interest did you vote remainRecidivist said:
Yes. But maybe other people feel like I do. I've given it enough respect. If three years on the leavers still don't know what they want then the moment has passed. We need to stop. Brexit is unworkable.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It seems the natural response to those who want to remain and see their hope of a referendum disappearRecidivist said:
A lot of people agree.Fenman said:We need to revoke Article 50 now. This is no longer amusing.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
The votes are piling up so quickly people are taking video screenshots and putting them online.0 -
Can anyone stop her calling an election?0
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Interesting sky polling on who's to blame. Very much a plague on all houses.
Expenses on steroids0 -
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Is that the ‘irony’ we have all been waiting for? Brexit has resulted in the Europeanising of our political process ?another_richard said:
While the rest of the country goes about its business quite happily.notme2 said:
And while we are used to the ‘elected dictatorship’ nature of our politics, and all this parliament stuff seems dreadful and grubby, actually in the rest of Europe and most of the world this kind of thing is pretty normal. Deals, back scratching, nose holding and governments prostrating themselves to a small number of people who hold the balance of power is not considered a bug, but a feature of their politics based on proportional voting system creating perpetual coalitions.Pro_Rata said:
I had my periodic glance at La Repubblica this morning and Brexit, even at this stage, was the 93rd strapline on the, very large, main page.CarlottaVance said:
Recent political events have been very European in their nature.0 -
And this is all just for the transition arrangement, not our eventual relationship. Lovely.0
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Easily. But then Parliament has so far steadfastly refused to make her do something different to that which is happening, even though it is in its power and they forced her to have a MV in the first place.ExiledInScotland said:Can anyone stop her calling an election?
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Being able to blame France for a No Deal Brexit gets most MPs off the hook.....CarlottaVance said:0 -
I am sure that would be torturous too, but there is actually reason to believe it would not be quite as torturous, because while a lot of the ERGer derailing of Brexit is down to not liking were they think the eventual relationship will end up, another large section of dispute is because, as many placards and posters have told us 'It's not a done deal' and that Brexit itself can be stopped. It's last chance saloon to stop Brexit at all, and might succeed. But if we do, in some form, leave, then while there will be a great deal of anger and dispute over what to do next, the issue of actually leaving will no longer be on the table (whether immediately rejoining would pick up steam I am uncertain of).dyedwoolie said:And this is all just for the transition arrangement, not our eventual relationship. Lovely.
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OK, fair enough. I think others should be the judge. It was not all leavers though, and as there are only two SNP supporters it is possible that they got rough edge, as I really do dislike the hypocrisy of the SNP. Leavers or nationalists that used intemperate language such as "traitors" etc., yep. guilty as charged. Malcolm was a result of remarks he made about Tory liars and scum if I remember rightly. You will find I am perfectly polite if everyone else is. Look at Tyndall's recent posts. He deserves it. We can disagree politely, but if someone wants to dish it out, I am quite happy to enter the fray, even though sometimes I may come off worse, sometimes I won't! Just because I am a centrist doesn't mean I have to be a shrinking violet! Friends?Tykejohnno said:
Come on Nigel,when you started to show up on here,you were rude to most leavers and the SNP posters.Nigel_Foremain said:
Well I can make an exception for you if you like! There are some Brexiteers on here that are perfectly pleasant and make rational comments, even though I disagree with them. Then there are the likes of yourself and Richard Tyndall, and now Mr Tredifficile.Tykejohnno said:
"I don't normally enjoy being rude to people"Nigel_Foremain said:
Well you must be pals because you also resort to personal abuse. He said he was a member of UKIP. Support for an outcome would be different. There are plenty of people who have differing views on here and they can be respected. Richard is not one that I can have any respect for, particularly with such a ridiculous position as that. I don't normally enjoy being rude to people, but he is clearly unpleasant so deserves it. So no, I am not the one being a dick here, dickhead!TrèsDifficile said:@Nigel_Foremain you're making a complete dick of yourself re @Richard_Tyndall - he's always been very clear in his support for freedom of movement, he just wanted to leave the EU. Supporting UKIP in that aim was the only route to it.
Hahahaha0 -
Yes. But does she have the authority on her own side?williamglenn said:0 -
A GE would be a nightmare. I would hope that enough MPs of all parties would get together to form a Govt of National Unity and try and work out this mess and then vote themselves down for an ordered GE. The ball would be in Labour's court though.Pulpstar said:
She only could in 2017 because the other parties went along with it.0 -
Viktor Orbans Fidesz gets suspended from the EPP
https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/evp-fraktion-setzt-mitgliedschaft-von-orban-partei-aus-16099223.html0 -
And I've agreed up until some time in January. I can't remember if anything in particular pushed me over the line, but I just decided that enough democratic rope has been played out. We can't let them hang all of us with it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As did I and I am conflicted by brexit but I still believe we must exit due to the democratic vote and accept that the choice post brexit is to make the best of it or campaign to rejoinRecidivist said:
I did.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a matter of interest did you vote remainRecidivist said:
Yes. But maybe other people feel like I do. I've given it enough respect. If three years on the leavers still don't know what they want then the moment has passed. We need to stop. Brexit is unworkable.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It seems the natural response to those who want to remain and see their hope of a referendum disappearRecidivist said:
A lot of people agree.Fenman said:We need to revoke Article 50 now. This is no longer amusing.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
The votes are piling up so quickly people are taking video screenshots and putting them online.0 -
Government of National Unity seems like the best resolution to me.kjh said:
A GE would be a nightmare. I would hope that enough MPs of all parties would get together to form a Govt of National Unity and try and work out this mess and then vote themselves down for an ordered GE. The ball would be in Labour's court though.Pulpstar said:
She only could in 2017 because the other parties went along with it.0 -
I fear we are getting the awful situation of Euro elections, a referendum and a GE this year. I have colleagues in elections who are are at their wits end at the prospect.kjh said:
A GE would be a nightmare. I would hope that enough MPs of all parties would get together to form a Govt of National Unity and try and work out this mess and then vote themselves down for an ordered GE. The ball would be in Labour's court though.Pulpstar said:
She only could in 2017 because the other parties went along with it.0 -
No it doesn't. The leavers are on the hook.MarqueeMark said:
Being able to blame France for a No Deal Brexit gets most MPs off the hook.....CarlottaVance said:0 -
Runs into the same problem as any compromise option - the people involved would insist this government of national unity do what they want, and not support the idea unless it remained/dealed etc.Recidivist said:
Government of National Unity seems like the best resolution to me.kjh said:
A GE would be a nightmare. I would hope that enough MPs of all parties would get together to form a Govt of National Unity and try and work out this mess and then vote themselves down for an ordered GE. The ball would be in Labour's court though.Pulpstar said:
She only could in 2017 because the other parties went along with it.0 -
This is relentless against May from every side of the chamber. I can't see how she can survive the weekend.0
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Watching parliament on TV, they're all so convinced that THEY are right !0
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easyIanB2 said:This is relentless against May from every side of the chamber. I can't see how she can survive the weekend.
ignore them0 -
I have heard that so many times in this chaosIanB2 said:This is relentless against May from every side of the chamber. I can't see how she can survive the weekend.
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bunch of useless hypocrites the lot of themPulpstar said:Watching parliament on TV, they're all so convinced that THEY are right !
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Agreed. I too cannot pin point the exact moment, but the insistence of so many leavers that they'd rather remain than vote for a deal to exit certainly contributed to it.Recidivist said:
And I've agreed up until some time in January. I can't remember if anything in particular pushed me over the line, but I just decided that enough democratic rope has been played out. We can't let them hang all of us with it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As did I and I am conflicted by brexit but I still believe we must exit due to the democratic vote and accept that the choice post brexit is to make the best of it or campaign to rejoinRecidivist said:
I did.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a matter of interest did you vote remainRecidivist said:
Yes. But maybe other people feel like I do. I've given it enough respect. If three years on the leavers still don't know what they want then the moment has passed. We need to stop. Brexit is unworkable.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It seems the natural response to those who want to remain and see their hope of a referendum disappearRecidivist said:
A lot of people agree.Fenman said:We need to revoke Article 50 now. This is no longer amusing.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
The votes are piling up so quickly people are taking video screenshots and putting them online.
Which would make it hilarious if a vote of no confidence was called and she still won it.IanB2 said:This is relentless against May from every side of the chamber. I can't see how she can survive the weekend.
Though part of me suspects she would lose one now, and Corbyn is not calling for one because he knows that, but doesn't want things to go down that route yet.0 -
Would MPs from all sides really risk no deal rather than agree to the only deal the EU are offering? Seems like it.
9 days and either May or ERG win. I don't see how the opposition do from here.0 -
So have I, but if you're listening to the debate, it is striking how personal the condemnation of her strategy and behaviour now is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have heard that so many times in this chaosIanB2 said:This is relentless against May from every side of the chamber. I can't see how she can survive the weekend.
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She'll be gone this year but will survive the weekend. Nobody is going to take over days before exit.IanB2 said:This is relentless against May from every side of the chamber. I can't see how she can survive the weekend.
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The key is whether people think they are off the hook or not. Leavers and remainers are utterly unconcerned about us potentially crashing out - whatever their crocodile tears and insincere wailings about it - because they are content that they won't be blamed first, or all will be blamed.Recidivist said:
No it doesn't. The leavers are on the hook.MarqueeMark said:
Being able to blame France for a No Deal Brexit gets most MPs off the hook.....CarlottaVance said:0 -
Sorry Richard, I see no difference between BNP and UKIP. Both are parties of hatred and intolerance. If you can't see that, well that is a shame, and holding such affiliations and accusing others of being dumb makes you look, well, very dumb, even though I am sure you are not. We will have to agree to disagree.Richard_Tyndall said:
You are the one who started the exchanges by accusing me of being a BNP supporter. I would suggest anything you get in return is fully justified. Rudeness on here is probably excusable. Being wilfully dumb is not.Nigel_Foremain said:
Well you must be pals because you also resort to personal abuse. He said he was a member of UKIP. Support for an outcome would be different. There are plenty of people who have differing views on here and they can be respected. Richard is not one that I can have any respect for, particularly with such a ridiculous position as that. I don't normally enjoy being rude to people, but he is clearly unpleasant so deserves it. So no, I am not the one being a dick here, dickhead!TrèsDifficile said:@Nigel_Foremain you're making a complete dick of yourself re @Richard_Tyndall - he's always been very clear in his support for freedom of movement, he just wanted to leave the EU. Supporting UKIP in that aim was the only route to it.
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Prorogue Parliament is past 90,000.Recidivist said:https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
Has just passed 60,000.0 -
There are a lot of very angry remainer mpsIanB2 said:
So have I, but if you're listening to the debate, it is striking how personal the condemnation of her strategy and behaviour now is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have heard that so many times in this chaosIanB2 said:This is relentless against May from every side of the chamber. I can't see how she can survive the weekend.
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That's a credible line but the problem is the damage the uncertainty has already caused to business and industry. There's an accountability that has to be accepted by those supportive of the Government that the process has been unhelpful so far and with barely a week to go it's inexcusable we are still in this position.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As did I and I am conflicted by brexit but I still believe we must exit due to the democratic vote and accept that the choice post brexit is to make the best of it or campaign to rejoin
Yes, we could all troop behind the WA but a lot of people don't like it so why should they support something just to unite the country behind a certain Prime Minister? May should have admitted after the failure of MV2 it couldn't pass the Commons and sought to revoke with a view to re-commencing the A50 process at a later date,
She still can if she purports to act in the national interest but I now consider her to be acting purely in her own interests and those of the Conservative Party.0 -
Bulls**t. If that was true you wouldn't have said BNP, you switched it because you knew one was worse.Nigel_Foremain said:Sorry Richard, I see no difference between BNP and UKIP. Both are parties of hatred and intolerance.
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Mostly hardcore remainersAlanbrooke said:
easyIanB2 said:This is relentless against May from every side of the chamber. I can't see how she can survive the weekend.
ignore them0 -
That is my viewPhilip_Thompson said:
She'll be gone this year but will survive the weekend. Nobody is going to take over days before exit.IanB2 said:This is relentless against May from every side of the chamber. I can't see how she can survive the weekend.
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Portillo said last week he expected the Commons to narrowly vote to revoke Article 50 and cancel Brexit completely rather than allow No Deal if the Deal fails again, as the polls shift to Remain Brexit may well be on its last legs unless Letwin and Cooper and Boles can get some sort of 'Common Market 2.0' Single Market and Customs Union BINO through next weekPhilip_Thompson said:Would MPs from all sides really risk no deal rather than agree to the only deal the EU are offering? Seems like it.
9 days and either May or ERG win. I don't see how the opposition do from here.0 -
Hard to see how anyone could convince the EU that any plan is credible from here.....
May's deal or no deal, has to be I think, I can't see the EU granting an extension0 -
But might not many Tories oppose a GE?williamglenn said:0 -
I don't think she's working in the interests of the party either, frankly, I don't see how what is going on will be good for them either, but she's obviously acting in the way she is because of the pressures of the party, not the country.stodge said:
That's a credible line but the problem is the damage the uncertainty has already caused to business and industry. There's an accountability that has to be accepted by those supportive of the Government that the process has been unhelpful so far and with barely a week to go it's inexcusable we are still in this position.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As did I and I am conflicted by brexit but I still believe we must exit due to the democratic vote and accept that the choice post brexit is to make the best of it or campaign to rejoin
Yes, we could all troop behind the WA but a lot of people don't like it so why should they support something just to unite the country behind a certain Prime Minister? May should have admitted after the failure of MV2 it couldn't pass the Commons and sought to revoke with a view to re-commencing the A50 process at a later date,
She still can if she purports to act in the national interest but I now consider her to be acting purely in her own interests and those of the Conservative Party.
Revoking was clearly a no go, that would be to admit Brexit is never going to happen, what she should have done was tack to a Labour Brexit - might it have cost her some more Cabinet Members? Probably, and upset many in her party to boot. But she might have been able to get some Brexit at least.0 -
If parliament voted for May's deal subject to a referendum, I think the EU would agree to allow time for it.dyedwoolie said:Hard to see how anyone could convince the EU that any plan is credible from here.....
May's deal or no deal, has to be I think, I can't see the EU granting an extension0 -
Which this one will catch up with in about 3 hours at current rates of signing.Philip_Thompson said:
Prorogue Parliament is past 90,000.Recidivist said:https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584
Has just passed 60,000.0 -
Swansea West - 65 signatures for revocation of article 50.0
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She only needs 100 or so loyalists if labour support , shes got thatjustin124 said:
But might not many Tories oppose a GE?williamglenn said:0 -
Any plan to deal, sure. Even though both lead to uncertain outcomes would the EU hold such a firm view if a GE or referendum option though? I think not. They see no reason to waste more time pursuing the deal, hence the shortest possible chance. But plenty of other options for them.dyedwoolie said:Hard to see how anyone could convince the EU that any plan is credible from here.....
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"WAAAAAAAAAAAAMbulance to Parliament......."IanB2 said:This is relentless against May from every side of the chamber. I can't see how she can survive the weekend.
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If it's personal, means they've got nothing else.IanB2 said:
So have I, but if you're listening to the debate, it is striking how personal the condemnation of her strategy and behaviour now is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have heard that so many times in this chaosIanB2 said:This is relentless against May from every side of the chamber. I can't see how she can survive the weekend.
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I said UKIP/BNP and also said UKIP/EDL in the same way as Tories used to say SinnFein/IRA. Two cheeks of the same arse!Philip_Thompson said:
Bulls**t. If that was true you wouldn't have said BNP, you switched it because you knew one was worse.Nigel_Foremain said:Sorry Richard, I see no difference between BNP and UKIP. Both are parties of hatred and intolerance.
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She would need 434 votes.dyedwoolie said:
She only needs 100 or so loyalists if labour support , shes got thatjustin124 said:
But might not many Tories oppose a GE?williamglenn said:0 -
Sinn Fein/IRA were literally the same organisation though. Sinn Fein was the political wing of the IRA, they were the same people. That's not the case here.Nigel_Foremain said:
I said UKIP/BNP and also said UKIP/EDL in the same way as Tories used to say SinnFein/IRA. Two cheeks of the same arse!Philip_Thompson said:
Bulls**t. If that was true you wouldn't have said BNP, you switched it because you knew one was worse.Nigel_Foremain said:Sorry Richard, I see no difference between BNP and UKIP. Both are parties of hatred and intolerance.
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Make a note of those trashing her today, and see how many of them will be giving fullsome eulogies for her career and handling of Brexit when she does finally step down.Big_G_NorthWales said:
There are a lot of very angry remainer mpsIanB2 said:
So have I, but if you're listening to the debate, it is striking how personal the condemnation of her strategy and behaviour now is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have heard that so many times in this chaosIanB2 said:This is relentless against May from every side of the chamber. I can't see how she can survive the weekend.
Stock up on sick bags......0 -
Debate closes with the formal neutral motion nodded through.
Next is May on the steps of No 10 in 100 minutes' time.0 -
The Commons has done such an excellent job of directing the negotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement that Lisa Nandy & Gareth Snell have tabled an amendment which would ensure that the Commons decides on the negotiating mandate for the next stage and has to approve the final deal.0
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Time to sign off I think - I don't think anything May is going to say in a few hours will be worth hearing, and MPs are not going to be listening as their minds are made up anyway, so it'll just be a bunch of leaks from Cabinet saying 'unbelievable, this is a nightmare' and other vapidity, which we are more than able to generate on our own.0
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They've been stuck in the denial stage of grief for so long, they're only just now reaching the anger stage.Big_G_NorthWales said:
There are a lot of very angry remainer mpsIanB2 said:
So have I, but if you're listening to the debate, it is striking how personal the condemnation of her strategy and behaviour now is.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I have heard that so many times in this chaosIanB2 said:This is relentless against May from every side of the chamber. I can't see how she can survive the weekend.
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Just over 100 plus labour, snp etcjustin124 said:
She would need 434 votes.dyedwoolie said:
She only needs 100 or so loyalists if labour support , shes got thatjustin124 said:
But might not many Tories oppose a GE?williamglenn said:0 -
If the government tries to engineer a general election early, it does so by calling a vote of no confidence in itself. There is then a 14 day period during which other people can try to form an administration. It strikes me that this might easily boomerang on Theresa May if she tries it. The idea of someone else forming a government is not beyond the realms of possibility by any means.0
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That’s it game over. May wins.
After Tusk and EU pre ordained master plan, an MP not voting for May’s deal MV3 will be voting for no deal brexit or abstaining to facilitate no deal brexit.
GAME OVER
look on May’s, Goves, Graylins, (and JohnManns) face next week when when MV3 passes will be a sight to behold.0 -
No, it does so by laying a motion for a General Election like it did in 2017.AlastairMeeks said:If the government tries to engineer a general election early, it does so by calling a vote of no confidence in itself. There is then a 14 day period during which other people can try to form an administration. It strikes me that this might easily boomerang on Theresa May if she tries it. The idea of someone else forming a government is not beyond the realms of possibility by any means.
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Fair enough, I agree the analogy is not perfect. It is known that UKIP attracted people from BNP, and Alan Sked has accused Farage of facilitating that. There is much greater similarity between the extremes of the two groups than there is between the two wings of the Tory party. The BNP and UKIP are like the Judean People's Front and the Popular Front for Judea. The only difference is they don't hate each other!Philip_Thompson said:
Sinn Fein/IRA were literally the same organisation though. Sinn Fein was the political wing of the IRA, they were the same people. That's not the case here.Nigel_Foremain said:
I said UKIP/BNP and also said UKIP/EDL in the same way as Tories used to say SinnFein/IRA. Two cheeks of the same arse!Philip_Thompson said:
Bulls**t. If that was true you wouldn't have said BNP, you switched it because you knew one was worse.Nigel_Foremain said:Sorry Richard, I see no difference between BNP and UKIP. Both are parties of hatred and intolerance.
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It would be done the same way ss 2017. Vote to dissolve, 2/3 requiredAlastairMeeks said:If the government tries to engineer a general election early, it does so by calling a vote of no confidence in itself. There is then a 14 day period during which other people can try to form an administration. It strikes me that this might easily boomerang on Theresa May if she tries it. The idea of someone else forming a government is not beyond the realms of possibility by any means.
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Just a wild guess, but maybe she'll say that the only way to avoid no deal is to agree her deal?kle4 said:Time to sign off I think - I don't think anything May is going to say in a few hours will be worth hearing, and MPs are not going to be listening as their minds are made up anyway, so it'll just be a bunch of leaks from Cabinet saying 'unbelievable, this is a nightmare' and other vapidity, which we are more than able to generate on our own.
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Unfortunately you're wrong, we're sleepwalking into No Deal. The dickheads in the ERG and the cowards on the opposition benches are about to see us crash out with no deal.dots said:That’s it game over. May wins.
After Tusk and EU pre ordained master plan, an MP not voting for May’s deal MV3 will be voting for no deal brexit or abstaining to facilitate no deal brexit.
GAME OVER
look on May’s, Goves, Graylins, (and JohnManns) face next week when when MV3 passes will be a sight to behold.0
Surely if you don't want the Deal or a GE, then VONC is the way? 
This discussion has been closed.