politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Key fact: Biden leads the Dem 2020 polling despite not yet run
Comments
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How heavily odds on?Nigelb said:
It’s a view, but I think it odds on that it will be one of the four.AlastairMeeks said:
What are the odds, do you think, that the eventual candidate will come from outside that quartet? I’d say it’s better than 2/1. It might be better than evens.Nigelb said:
A case for laying any of them, but not all at once, I think ?AlastairMeeks said:
I’ve been a layer of Beto O’Rourke since he announced he was tired. Kamala Harris is a fine candidate but ridiculously short at present. Sooner or later someone is going to ask searching questions about the practicalities of having a very old president.Nigelb said:
Well it would be for Biden and Sanders....Charles said:
I think the assumption a lot of the candidates are making is that Trump will be easy to beatNigelb said:I think you are about right, David.
The four betting favourites more or less equal odds don’t make much sense to me, either - are there any you would be laying at this point ?
I wonder about Vanity Fair, “Man, I’m just born to be in it” O’Rourke.
Has he blown it by going for president instead of another Senate shot ? He’s going to have a lot of Democrats trying to demolish his myth, rather than the entire party behind him for the next year.
Hence there will be a Democrat incumbent in 2024 and therefore it’s 2020 or 2028
And 9 years is a long time to wait for some of these candidates
O’Rourke doesn’t have that kind of now or never urgency - and if he doesn’t win the nomination, has probably decreased the Democrats’ chances in Texas.
Had he been decisive like Harris, he wouldn’t face the kind of criticism coming his way. As it is, the hint of entitlement isn’t going to do him any favours.
There’s a good case for laying all four of the current frontrunners at present prices. There’s quite enough time for other contenders to have their moment to shine.0 -
If I had any spare cash, I’d let you know...AlastairMeeks said:
How heavily odds on?Nigelb said:
It’s a view, but I think it odds on that it will be one of the four.AlastairMeeks said:
What are the odds, do you think, that the eventual candidate will come from outside that quartet? I’d say it’s better than 2/1. It might be better than evens.Nigelb said:
A case for laying any of them, but not all at once, I think ?AlastairMeeks said:
I’ve been a layer of Beto O’Rourke since he announced he was tired. Kamala Harris is a fine candidate but ridiculously short at present. Sooner or later someone is going to ask searching questions about the practicalities of having a very old president.Nigelb said:
Well it would be for Biden and Sanders....Charles said:
I think the assumption a lot of the candidates are making is that Trump will be easy to beatNigelb said:I think you are about right, David.
The four betting favourites more or less equal odds don’t make much sense to me, either - are there any you would be laying at this point ?
I wonder about Vanity Fair, “Man, I’m just born to be in it” O’Rourke.
Has he blown it by going for president instead of another Senate shot ? He’s going to have a lot of Democrats trying to demolish his myth, rather than the entire party behind him for the next year.
Hence there will be a Democrat incumbent in 2024 and therefore it’s 2020 or 2028
And 9 years is a long time to wait for some of these candidates
O’Rourke doesn’t have that kind of now or never urgency - and if he doesn’t win the nomination, has probably decreased the Democrats’ chances in Texas.
Had he been decisive like Harris, he wouldn’t face the kind of criticism coming his way. As it is, the hint of entitlement isn’t going to do him any favours.
There’s a good case for laying all four of the current frontrunners at present prices. There’s quite enough time for other contenders to have their moment to shine.
0 -
Fair enough! My point is that there are a lot of entrants in this contest, many of them credible, and there’s a long way to go yet. Moods will shift in that time.Nigelb said:
If I had any spare cash, I’d let you know...AlastairMeeks said:
How heavily odds on?Nigelb said:
It’s a view, but I think it odds on that it will be one of the four.AlastairMeeks said:
What are the odds, do you think, that the eventual candidate will come from outside that quartet? I’d say it’s better than 2/1. It might be better than evens.Nigelb said:
A case for laying any of them, but not all at once, I think ?AlastairMeeks said:
I’ve been a layer of Beto O’Rourke since he announced he was tired. Kamala Harris is a fine candidate but ridiculously short at present. Sooner or later someone is going to ask searching questions about the practicalities of having a very old president.Nigelb said:
Well it would be for Biden and Sanders....Charles said:
I think the assumption a lot of the candidates are making is that Trump will be easy to beatNigelb said:I think you are about right, David.
The four betting favourites more or less equal odds don’t make much sense to me, either - are there any you would be laying at this point ?
I wonder about Vanity Fair, “Man, I’m just born to be in it” O’Rourke.
Has he blown it by going for president instead of another Senate shot ? He’s going to have a lot of Democrats trying to demolish his myth, rather than the entire party behind him for the next year.
Hence there will be a Democrat incumbent in 2024 and therefore it’s 2020 or 2028
And 9 years is a long time to wait for some of these candidates
O’Rourke doesn’t have that kind of now or never urgency - and if he doesn’t win the nomination, has probably decreased the Democrats’ chances in Texas.
Had he been decisive like Harris, he wouldn’t face the kind of criticism coming his way. As it is, the hint of entitlement isn’t going to do him any favours.
There’s a good case for laying all four of the current frontrunners at present prices. There’s quite enough time for other contenders to have their moment to shine.0 -
Violence is often the logical conclusion of a political viewpoint. In fact, all politics is underpinned by violence- a government's authority is only enforced at the end of a gun- but even if you limit yourself to evil, atrocious violence like this attack, there's still no clean separation between the people politely advocating violence through acceptible channels and the people actually committing it. Political ideologies can cause evil and be evil, and still be identifiable as right or left wing (or, indeed, centrist).stodge said:Afternoon all
I'll add my condolences to those already expressed to Big G and his family.
I do however respectfully disagree with this comment this morning - the monster who committed the Christchurch atrocity isn't deserving of the epithet "Right" and nor are those with whom he apparently associated in Europe and elsewhere.
For me, "Right" and "Left", outmoded as they are, do at least represent terms for those who engage with and believe in the democratic process. There are plenty of people on here with whom and on many issues I disagree passionately but we do so within the confines of the democratic process. As such, I wholeheartedly respect the rights of these individuals to hold views with which I disagree and hopefully they respect my right to disagree with them.
Passionate argument is and always has been the lifeblood of democracy - the totality of views expressed here and on similar forums support and enrich the democratic process.
That does not under any circumstances condone violence and murder. This terrorist took innocent lives and there can be no political justification for it. This individual is a criminal beyond politics and argument and needs only to be considered within the area of his punishment within the law.
All those who argue within politics should be united in opposing those who prefer to air their arguments through the media of violence and terror. That includes opposing the words of hate which provoke the actions of violence whether those are directed against countries, colours or creeds.0 -
If you're interested in a private bet I'd certainly do some at evens?AlastairMeeks said:
How heavily odds on?Nigelb said:
It’s a view, but I think it odds on that it will be one of the four.AlastairMeeks said:
What are the odds, do you think, that the eventual candidate will come from outside that quartet? I’d say it’s better than 2/1. It might be better than evens.Nigelb said:
A case for laying any of them, but not all at once, I think ?AlastairMeeks said:
I’ve been a layer of Beto O’Rourke since he announced he was tired. Kamala Harris is a fine candidate but ridiculously short at present. Sooner or later someone is going to ask searching questions about the practicalities of having a very old president.Nigelb said:
Well it would be for Biden and Sanders....Charles said:
I think the assumption a lot of the candidates are making is that Trump will be easy to beatNigelb said:I think you are about right, David.
The four betting favourites more or less equal odds don’t make much sense to me, either - are there any you would be laying at this point ?
I wonder about Vanity Fair, “Man, I’m just born to be in it” O’Rourke.
Has he blown it by going for president instead of another Senate shot ? He’s going to have a lot of Democrats trying to demolish his myth, rather than the entire party behind him for the next year.
Hence there will be a Democrat incumbent in 2024 and therefore it’s 2020 or 2028
And 9 years is a long time to wait for some of these candidates
O’Rourke doesn’t have that kind of now or never urgency - and if he doesn’t win the nomination, has probably decreased the Democrats’ chances in Texas.
Had he been decisive like Harris, he wouldn’t face the kind of criticism coming his way. As it is, the hint of entitlement isn’t going to do him any favours.
There’s a good case for laying all four of the current frontrunners at present prices. There’s quite enough time for other contenders to have their moment to shine.0 -
Thanks for the offer but I’m happy manoeuvring on Betfair.Quincel said:
If you're interested in a private bet I'd certainly do some at evens?AlastairMeeks said:
How heavily odds on?Nigelb said:
It’s a view, but I think it odds on that it will be one of the four.AlastairMeeks said:
What are the odds, do you think, that the eventual candidate will come from outside that quartet? I’d say it’s better than 2/1. It might be better than evens.Nigelb said:
A case for laying any of them, but not all at once, I think ?AlastairMeeks said:
I’ve been a layer of Beto O’Rourke since he announced he was tired. Kamala Harris is a fine candidate but ridiculously short at present. Sooner or later someone is going to ask searching questions about the practicalities of having a very old president.Nigelb said:
Well it would be for Biden and Sanders....Charles said:
I think the assumption a lot of the candidates are making is that Trump will be easy to beatNigelb said:I think you are about right, David.
The four betting favourites more or less equal odds don’t make much sense to me, either - are there any you would be laying at this point ?
I wonder about Vanity Fair, “Man, I’m just born to be in it” O’Rourke.
Has he blown it by going for president instead of another Senate shot ? He’s going to have a lot of Democrats trying to demolish his myth, rather than the entire party behind him for the next year.
Hence there will be a Democrat incumbent in 2024 and therefore it’s 2020 or 2028
And 9 years is a long time to wait for some of these candidates
O’Rourke doesn’t have that kind of now or never urgency - and if he doesn’t win the nomination, has probably decreased the Democrats’ chances in Texas.
Had he been decisive like Harris, he wouldn’t face the kind of criticism coming his way. As it is, the hint of entitlement isn’t going to do him any favours.
There’s a good case for laying all four of the current frontrunners at present prices. There’s quite enough time for other contenders to have their moment to shine.0 -
No problem, good luck to both of us on Betfair.AlastairMeeks said:
Thanks for the offer but I’m happy manoeuvring on Betfair.Quincel said:
If you're interested in a private bet I'd certainly do some at evens?AlastairMeeks said:
How heavily odds on?Nigelb said:
It’s a view, but I think it odds on that it will be one of the four.AlastairMeeks said:
What are the odds, do you think, that the eventual candidate will come from outside that quartet? I’d say it’s better than 2/1. It might be better than evens.Nigelb said:
A case for laying any of them, but not all at once, I think ?AlastairMeeks said:
I’ve been a layer of Beto O’Rourke since he announced he was tired. Kamala Harris is a fine candidate but ridiculously short at present. Sooner or later someone is going to ask searching questions about the practicalities of having a very old president.Nigelb said:
Well it would be for Biden and Sanders....Charles said:
I think the assumption a lot of the candidates are making is that Trump will be easy to beatNigelb said:I think you are about right, David.
The four betting favourites more or less equal odds don’t make much sense to me, either - are there any you would be laying at this point ?
I wonder about Vanity Fair, “Man, I’m just born to be in it” O’Rourke.
Has he blown it by going for president instead of another Senate shot ? He’s going to have a lot of Democrats trying to demolish his myth, rather than the entire party behind him for the next year.
Hence there will be a Democrat incumbent in 2024 and therefore it’s 2020 or 2028
And 9 years is a long time to wait for some of these candidates
O’Rourke doesn’t have that kind of now or never urgency - and if he doesn’t win the nomination, has probably decreased the Democrats’ chances in Texas.
Had he been decisive like Harris, he wouldn’t face the kind of criticism coming his way. As it is, the hint of entitlement isn’t going to do him any favours.
There’s a good case for laying all four of the current frontrunners at present prices. There’s quite enough time for other contenders to have their moment to shine.0 -
South Cambridgeshire has a Lib Dem council, but the Lib Dems are a long way behind at Parliamentary level. Totnes used to be a target, but they've collapsed. They don't feature in any of the other seats, so they should give the 11 a clear run.another_richard said:
Where are the constituencies where the splitters would do well in but the LibDems don't ?logical_song said:
It's OK to try to catch the same fish provided they are in different pools (constituencies. It would make no sense for TIG and LDs to fight each other in any but a handful of constituencies.stodge said:On to other matters and the forthcoming LD leadership election (hopefully) in which, as a Party member, I have a vote.
My first and fervent hope is we have a contested election. I hope Layla Moran and Ed Davey decide to stand alongside Jo Swinson. I confess I don't have a strong preference this stage - I see the "appeal" for the LDs to join the Conservatives in having chosen a female leader not that should be a criterion for choosing a leader.
I so think the Party needs to start thinking beyond Brexit and needs to consider its relationship with TIG. I confess I'm struggling to see where TIG stands on a number of issues but I do worry that while I've no objection to another fisherman on the riverbank I would be worried if we were trying to catch the same fish.
These and other areas will be what I'm looking forward to hearing at the Hustings when all the candidates pitch directly to the electorate.0 -
Maybe a few in London like Hampstead and Kilburn.another_richard said:
Where are the constituencies where the splitters would do well in but the LibDems don't ?logical_song said:
It's OK to try to catch the same fish provided they are in different pools (constituencies. It would make no sense for TIG and LDs to fight each other in any but a handful of constituencies.stodge said:On to other matters and the forthcoming LD leadership election (hopefully) in which, as a Party member, I have a vote.
My first and fervent hope is we have a contested election. I hope Layla Moran and Ed Davey decide to stand alongside Jo Swinson. I confess I don't have a strong preference this stage - I see the "appeal" for the LDs to join the Conservatives in having chosen a female leader not that should be a criterion for choosing a leader.
I so think the Party needs to start thinking beyond Brexit and needs to consider its relationship with TIG. I confess I'm struggling to see where TIG stands on a number of issues but I do worry that while I've no objection to another fisherman on the riverbank I would be worried if we were trying to catch the same fish.
These and other areas will be what I'm looking forward to hearing at the Hustings when all the candidates pitch directly to the electorate.
Lib Dems could benefit from a loose alliance e.g. backing Heidi Allen and Sarah Wollaston but are at least narrow favourites to regain e.g. Sheffield Hallam and Richmond Park on their own anyway.
Cheadle's a bit more hard to say. Lib Dems have the organisation there and greater capacity to squeeze the ~20% Labour vote but TIG might have the upper hand against the rich Tory remainer vote in Bramhall.
Overall though I think TIG is largely to sink without trace and despite the mess the LDs are in they are still far more likely to get 20% seats on their own than the TIG are to go anywhere (let alone without an alliance)0 -
I couldn't say definitively that all those who vote for odious policies are odious, but the possibility has to be considered.felix said:
Agreed - there are many who throw out the term ultra right/left as a means to block any discussion. It is currently used much in Spain against the ultra-derecha Vox party. Most of their policies are odious but no-one seems interested amidst the catcalls and screeching , to understand why about 10-15% of Spaniards are probably going to vote for them.stodge said:Afternoon all
I'll add my condolences to those already expressed to Big G and his family.
I do however respectfully disagree with this comment this morning - the monster who committed the Christchurch atrocity isn't deserving of the epithet "Right" and nor are those with whom he apparently associated in Europe and elsewhere.
For me, "Right" and "Left", outmoded as they are, do at least represent terms for those who engage with and believe in the democratic process. There are plenty of people on here with whom and on many issues I disagree passionately but we do so within the confines of the democratic process. As such, I wholeheartedly respect the rights of these individuals to hold views with which I disagree and hopefully they respect my right to disagree with them.
Passionate argument is and always has been the lifeblood of democracy - the totality of views expressed here and on similar forums support and enrich the democratic process.
That does not under any circumstances condone violence and murder. This terrorist took innocent lives and there can be no political justification for it. This individual is a criminal beyond politics and argument and needs only to be considered within the area of his punishment within the law.
All those who argue within politics should be united in opposing those who prefer to air their arguments through the media of violence and terror. That includes opposing the words of hate which provoke the actions of violence whether those are directed against countries, colours or creeds.0 -
I don't know where to start on that comment given who has written it.... I mean.... sheesh.felix said:Carswell gets it so wrong!
Douglas Carswell
✔
@DouglasCarswell
Either you can be the party that accommodates Boles-Letwin-Gauke or you can form a government. One cannot do both.0 -
Same thing for SeanT...TheScreamingEagles said:Anyone else shocked that Farage hasn’t tweeted about Christchurch.
Normally super Nige is the first to comment on terrorism involving Muslims.0 -
I suspect they're readier than for a Black one and they've had one of those....MarqueeMark said:
Is America ready for a gay President Booty Gig, with his husband in the White House? I think it is a little too soon.Quincel said:
I like Buttigieg, but I'm not convinced he will be able to stand out given a crowded field of pretty solid primary candidates. He'll make it to the debates though, I'm almost certain.rottenborough said:Keep an eye on Mayor Pete (Buttigieg).
Long long shot, but he's good. Very good.
As I posted last night, could be a big surprise dark horse if gets to the debates.
Axelrod is a fan.
I'm on Biden at 9/1 for the nomination, also reckon Warren is a bit long. She's polling decently and imho is a stronger candidate than most of the second tier lot who are 20/1 or so at bookies. I reckon both Biden and Sanders are strong but fragile campaigns, if something derailed Sanders then Warren would be well placed to leap to the top tier. She might also be a strong debater due to her detail, though it remains to be seen if that's what the voters want.
Also on Trump for the GOP nomination. Got longer than 1/2 earlier this year. Nuts.0 -
Well said and my own condolences to Mr G's family too.MarqueeMark said:
You are a gent. We are lucky to have your studied decency, keeping us true.Big_G_NorthWales said:Fellow posters.
I just want to say a huge thank you to all the community who have been so kind in your expressions of sympathy over the sad premature loss of my wifes cousin's son at 46 leaving his wife and three children, after just a few short weeks of discovering he had a rare form of extremely aggressive cancer
This followed the terrible news of the massacre in Christchurch, NZ, a city we love, and it's people, by a far right monster acting in the purest form of evil
It is a demonstration to all of us to call out all the far right and far left in one voice and work to unifying people and acknowledging there is more that unites us than divides us
PB was a wonderful example of that as so many were so kind right across the spectrum of all of us who post on here
Let us all look to kindness to each other and trust that whatever happens to brexit, we can heal the divisions in our society
As a mark of respect to my family I will not post over the weekend and truely hope that something will happen shortly to move us on
Thank you all so much. You are such a credit to our basic humanity and decency0 -
Just the response I'd expect from you. Sad.Theuniondivvie said:
I couldn't say definitively that all those who vote for odious policies are odious, but the possibility has to be considered.felix said:
Agreed - there are many who throw out the term ultra right/left as a means to block any discussion. It is currently used much in Spain against the ultra-derecha Vox party. Most of their policies are odious but no-one seems interested amidst the catcalls and screeching , to understand why about 10-15% of Spaniards are probably going to vote for them.stodge said:Afternoon all
I'll add my condolences to those already expressed to Big G and his family.
I do however respectfully disagree with this comment this morning - the monster who committed the Christchurch atrocity isn't deserving of the epithet "Right" and nor are those with whom he apparently associated in Europe and elsewhere.
For me, "Right" and "Left", outmoded as they are, do at least represent terms for those who engage with and believe in the democratic process. There are plenty of people on here with whom and on many issues I disagree passionately but we do so within the confines of the democratic process. As such, I wholeheartedly respect the rights of these individuals to hold views with which I disagree and hopefully they respect my right to disagree with them.
Passionate argument is and always has been the lifeblood of democracy - the totality of views expressed here and on similar forums support and enrich the democratic process.
That does not under any circumstances condone violence and murder. This terrorist took innocent lives and there can be no political justification for it. This individual is a criminal beyond politics and argument and needs only to be considered within the area of his punishment within the law.
All those who argue within politics should be united in opposing those who prefer to air their arguments through the media of violence and terror. That includes opposing the words of hate which provoke the actions of violence whether those are directed against countries, colours or creeds.0 -
Be fair - he's still got 200 miles to go.TheScreamingEagles said:Anyone else shocked that Farage hasn’t tweeted about Christchurch.
Normally super Nige is the first to comment on terrorism involving Muslims.
The morons will tell you UKIP only became anti-Muslim on Gerard Batten’s watch.
Happened way before that.
[unless private jet has taken off yet]0 -
All those three are doing more to promote Brexit than Carswell is.Scrapheap_as_was said:
I don't know where to start on that comment given who has written it.... I mean.... sheesh.felix said:Carswell gets it so wrong!
Douglas Carswell
✔
@DouglasCarswell
Either you can be the party that accommodates Boles-Letwin-Gauke or you can form a government. One cannot do both.0 -
What we need is another lecture from Macron on how Brexit has banjaxed the UK....Cyclefree said:
Why on earth can't the French authorities get on top of this?williamglenn said:Looks like the worst day of Gilets Jaunes vandalism since last year.
https://twitter.com/BakerLuke/status/11068964582618931200 -
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1106434268572598272Sunil_Prasannan said:
Same thing for SeanT...TheScreamingEagles said:Anyone else shocked that Farage hasn’t tweeted about Christchurch.
Normally super Nige is the first to comment on terrorism involving Muslims.0 -
It's more the comment about who can be accomodated and who can't by someone who didn't....Sean_F said:
All those three are doing more to promote Brexit than Carswell is.Scrapheap_as_was said:
I don't know where to start on that comment given who has written it.... I mean.... sheesh.felix said:Carswell gets it so wrong!
Douglas Carswell
✔
@DouglasCarswell
Either you can be the party that accommodates Boles-Letwin-Gauke or you can form a government. One cannot do both.0 -
I think he dropped out some time ago.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Be fair - he's still got 200 miles to go.TheScreamingEagles said:Anyone else shocked that Farage hasn’t tweeted about Christchurch.
Normally super Nige is the first to comment on terrorism involving Muslims.
The morons will tell you UKIP only became anti-Muslim on Gerard Batten’s watch.
Happened way before that.
[unless private jet has taken off yet]
https://twitter.com/dazabdaza/status/1106927220583337984?s=210 -
A by-election? They happen all the time for other Parliamentsnico67 said:What might happen .
The ERG vote for the deal , May gets an extension then they pull the plug on the WAIB after the EU elections by which time there’s no chance for further delay .
Then the issue of revocation . There seems to be a huge gap in the law . What if the UK hasn’t taken part in EU elections and then tries to revoke .
The EU have said the UK can’t continue to be a member if it hasn’t put forward MEPs but let’s say early June the UK revokes .
What happens . I’ve read the full ECJ judgement but can’t see mention of MEPs .
0 -
That also.Scrapheap_as_was said:
It's more the comment about who can be accomodated and who can't by someone who didn't....Sean_F said:
All those three are doing more to promote Brexit than Carswell is.Scrapheap_as_was said:
I don't know where to start on that comment given who has written it.... I mean.... sheesh.felix said:Carswell gets it so wrong!
Douglas Carswell
✔
@DouglasCarswell
Either you can be the party that accommodates Boles-Letwin-Gauke or you can form a government. One cannot do both.
0 -
Will Kemp managed a nine day wonder. This looks more like a nine hour blunder.williamglenn said:
I think he dropped out some time ago.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Be fair - he's still got 200 miles to go.TheScreamingEagles said:Anyone else shocked that Farage hasn’t tweeted about Christchurch.
Normally super Nige is the first to comment on terrorism involving Muslims.
The morons will tell you UKIP only became anti-Muslim on Gerard Batten’s watch.
Happened way before that.
[unless private jet has taken off yet]
https://twitter.com/dazabdaza/status/1106927220583337984?s=210 -
The Right: we need to condemn a little more, understand a little less, except when it'sfelix said:
Just the response I'd expect from you. Sad.Theuniondivvie said:
I couldn't say definitively that all those who vote for odious policies are odious, but the possibility has to be considered.felix said:
Agreed - there are many who throw out the term ultra right/left as a means to block any discussion. It is currently used much in Spain against the ultra-derecha Vox party. Most of their policies are odious but no-one seems interested amidst the catcalls and screeching , to understand why about 10-15% of Spaniards are probably going to vote for them.stodge said:Afternoon all
I'll add my condolences to those already expressed to Big G and his family.
I do however respectfully disagree with this comment this morning - the monster who committed the Christchurch atrocity isn't deserving of the epithet "Right" and nor are those with whom he apparently associated in Europe and elsewhere.
For me, "Right" and "Left", outmoded as they are, do at least represent terms for those who engage with and believe in the democratic process. There are plenty of people on here with whom and on many issues I disagree passionately but we do so within the confines of the democratic process. As such, I wholeheartedly respect the rights of these individuals to hold views with which I disagree and hopefully they respect my right to disagree with them.
Passionate argument is and always has been the lifeblood of democracy - the totality of views expressed here and on similar forums support and enrich the democratic process.
That does not under any circumstances condone violence and murder. This terrorist took innocent lives and there can be no political justification for it. This individual is a criminal beyond politics and argument and needs only to be considered within the area of his punishment within the law.
All those who argue within politics should be united in opposing those who prefer to air their arguments through the media of violence and terror. That includes opposing the words of hate which provoke the actions of violence whether those are directed against countries, colours or creeds.
people voting for policies from the more obnoxious end of rightwing politics.0 -
blockquote class="Quote" rel="nico67">What might happen .
The ERG vote for the deal , May gets an extension then they pull the plug on the WAIB after the EU elections by which time there’s no chance for further delay .
Then the issue of revocation . There seems to be a huge gap in the law . What if the UK hasn’t taken part in EU elections and then tries to revoke .
The EU have said the UK can’t continue to be a member if it hasn’t put forward MEPs but let’s say early June the UK revokes .
What happens . I’ve read the full ECJ judgement but can’t see mention of MEPs .
All this knowledge in my head is increasingly obsolete, but when a country that is not an EU member accedes, then MEPs are appointed until an off-year election (by-election) is held. Here is the Wiki page for the off-year election for Sweden in 1995. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_European_Parliament_election_in_Sweden
I have not got any sources for you for cases where a country gives notice, misses the election, then decides to revoke at the last minute because it just can't be arsed to think straight. Oddly enough, nobody planned for that.
0 -
Exactly the same on the left. There's none so blind.....Theuniondivvie said:
The Right: we need to condemn a little more, understand a little less, except when it'sfelix said:
Just the response I'd expect from you. Sad.Theuniondivvie said:
I couldn't say definitively that all those who vote for odious policies are odious, but the possibility has to be considered.felix said:
Agreed - there are many who throw out the term ultra right/left as a means to block any discussion. It is currently used much in Spain against the ultra-derecha Vox party. Most of their policies are odious but no-one seems interested amidst the catcalls and screeching , to understand why about 10-15% of Spaniards are probably going to vote for them.stodge said:Afternoon all
I'll add my condolences to those already expressed to Big G and his family.
I do however respectfully disagree with this comment this morning - the monster who committed the Christchurch atrocity isn't deserving of the epithet "Right" and nor are those with whom he apparently associated in Europe and elsewhere.
For me, "Right" and "Left", outmoded as they are, do at least represent terms for those who engage with and believe in the democratic process. There are plenty of people on here with whom and on many issues I disagree passionately but we do so within the confines of the democratic process. As such, I wholeheartedly respect the rights of these individuals to hold views with which I disagree and hopefully they respect my right to disagree with them.
Passionate argument is and always has been the lifeblood of democracy - the totality of views expressed here and on similar forums support and enrich the democratic process.
That does not under any circumstances condone violence and murder. This terrorist took innocent lives and there can be no political justification for it. This individual is a criminal beyond politics and argument and needs only to be considered within the area of his punishment within the law.
All those who argue within politics should be united in opposing those who prefer to air their arguments through the media of violence and terror. That includes opposing the words of hate which provoke the actions of violence whether those are directed against countries, colours or creeds.
people voting for policies from the more obnoxious end of rightwing politics.0 -
All this knowledge in my head is increasingly obsolete, but when a country that is not an EU member accedes, then MEPs are appointed until an off-year election (by-election) is held. Here is the Wiki page for the off-year election for Sweden in 1995. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1995_European_Parliament_election_in_Swedennico67 said:What might happen .
The ERG vote for the deal , May gets an extension then they pull the plug on the WAIB after the EU elections by which time there’s no chance for further delay .
Then the issue of revocation . There seems to be a huge gap in the law . What if the UK hasn’t taken part in EU elections and then tries to revoke .
The EU have said the UK can’t continue to be a member if it hasn’t put forward MEPs but let’s say early June the UK revokes .
What happens . I’ve read the full ECJ judgement but can’t see mention of MEPs .
I have not got any sources for you for cases where a country gives notice, misses the election, then decides to revoke at the last minute because it just can't be arsed to think straight. Oddly enough, nobody planned for that.
0 -
Reading the BBC report on Boles resignation from his Association, it appears some there think he is their delegate and not the constituency's representative - and since he's voted for MV2 and the government whipped extension to A50, this reflects badly on them, and not their MP.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47594875
0 -
So rather than catcall & screech about Corbyn, you really, really want to understand the people who vote for far left polices? You've done a masterful job of hiding you curiosity about the motivations of those particulary voters up to now, thumbs down on the catcalling & screeching bit though.felix said:
Exactly the same on the left. There's none so blind.....Theuniondivvie said:
The Right: we need to condemn a little more, understand a little less, except when it'sfelix said:
Just the response I'd expect from you. Sad.Theuniondivvie said:
I couldn't say definitively that all those who vote for odious policies are odious, but the possibility has to be considered.felix said:
Agreed - there are many who throw out the term ultra right/left as a means to block any discussion. It is currently used much in Spain against the ultra-derecha Vox party. Most of their policies are odious but no-one seems interested amidst the catcalls and screeching , to understand why about 10-15% of Spaniards are probably going to vote for them.stodge said:Afternoon all
I'll add my condolences to those already expressed to Big G and his family.
I do however respectfully disagree with this comment this morning - the monster who committed the Christchurch atrocity isn't deserving of the epithet "Right" and nor are those with whom he apparently associated in Europe and elsewhere.
For me, "Right" and "Left", outmoded as they are, do at least represent terms for those who engage with and believe in the democratic process. There are plenty of people on here with whom and on many issues I disagree passionately but we do so within the confines of the democratic process. As such, I wholeheartedly respect the rights of these individuals to hold views with which I disagree and hopefully they respect my right to disagree with them.
Passionate argument is and always has been the lifeblood of democracy - the totality of views expressed here and on similar forums support and enrich the democratic process.
That does not under any circumstances condone violence and murder. This terrorist took innocent lives and there can be no political justification for it. This individual is a criminal beyond politics and argument and needs only to be considered within the area of his punishment within the law.
All those who argue within politics should be united in opposing those who prefer to air their arguments through the media of violence and terror. That includes opposing the words of hate which provoke the actions of violence whether those are directed against countries, colours or creeds.
people voting for policies from the more obnoxious end of rightwing politics.0 -
People's Vote is aiming for up to 2 million in London next Saturday, would have been more sensible for the March to Leave to just hold a rival rally in Sunderland on the same day, most Leavers do not want to do a hike across the UK to make a pointwilliamglenn said:
I think he dropped out some time ago.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Be fair - he's still got 200 miles to go.TheScreamingEagles said:Anyone else shocked that Farage hasn’t tweeted about Christchurch.
Normally super Nige is the first to comment on terrorism involving Muslims.
The morons will tell you UKIP only became anti-Muslim on Gerard Batten’s watch.
Happened way before that.
[unless private jet has taken off yet]
https://twitter.com/dazabdaza/status/1106927220583337984?s=210 -
And frankly neither will have any effect. It was pretty much decided this week we won't be leaving on no deal/WTO terms and there is no appetite in parliament for a people's vote.HYUFD said:
People's Vote is aiming for up to 2 million in London next Saturday, would have been more sensible for the March to Leave to just hold a rival rally in Sunderland on the same day, most Leavers do not want to do a hike across the UK to make a pointwilliamglenn said:
I think he dropped out some time ago.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Be fair - he's still got 200 miles to go.TheScreamingEagles said:Anyone else shocked that Farage hasn’t tweeted about Christchurch.
Normally super Nige is the first to comment on terrorism involving Muslims.
The morons will tell you UKIP only became anti-Muslim on Gerard Batten’s watch.
Happened way before that.
[unless private jet has taken off yet]
https://twitter.com/dazabdaza/status/1106927220583337984?s=210 -
Christ, I hadn't realised that Hoey had lent her august presence. Has she bailed out with Nigel yet I wonder?
https://twitter.com/KateHoeyMP/status/11068740589253591040 -
So what can we do? If we can't leave, and can't stay, what next?brendan16 said:
And frankly neither will have any effect. It was pretty much decided this week we won't be leaving on no deal/WTO terms and there is no appetite in parliament for a people's vote.HYUFD said:
People's Vote is aiming for up to 2 million in London next Saturday, would have been more sensible for the March to Leave to just hold a rival rally in Sunderland on the same day, most Leavers do not want to do a hike across the UK to make a pointwilliamglenn said:
I think he dropped out some time ago.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Be fair - he's still got 200 miles to go.TheScreamingEagles said:Anyone else shocked that Farage hasn’t tweeted about Christchurch.
Normally super Nige is the first to comment on terrorism involving Muslims.
The morons will tell you UKIP only became anti-Muslim on Gerard Batten’s watch.
Happened way before that.
[unless private jet has taken off yet]
https://twitter.com/dazabdaza/status/1106927220583337984?s=210 -
The March to Leave is doing more harm than good .
When the turnout could fill a camper van it’s not a good look.0 -
Which will still leave a lot of unhappy voters though I agree either the Deal or extension and Brexit with some form of Customs Union and/or Single Market arrangement is the likeliest outcomebrendan16 said:
And frankly neither will have any effect. It was pretty much decided this week we won't be leaving on no deal/WTO terms and there is no appetite in parliament for a people's vote.HYUFD said:
People's Vote is aiming for up to 2 million in London next Saturday, would have been more sensible for the March to Leave to just hold a rival rally in Sunderland on the same day, most Leavers do not want to do a hike across the UK to make a pointwilliamglenn said:
I think he dropped out some time ago.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Be fair - he's still got 200 miles to go.TheScreamingEagles said:Anyone else shocked that Farage hasn’t tweeted about Christchurch.
Normally super Nige is the first to comment on terrorism involving Muslims.
The morons will tell you UKIP only became anti-Muslim on Gerard Batten’s watch.
Happened way before that.
[unless private jet has taken off yet]
https://twitter.com/dazabdaza/status/1106927220583337984?s=210 -
I am afraid that one of the more poisonous long term effects of Brexit will be to have cemented this idea that an MP is simply their to reflect the views of their local party membership. You can see it happening over on the Labour side as anyone who isn't fully signed up Momentum worshipper is viewed with increasing suspicion.CarlottaVance said:Reading the BBC report on Boles resignation from his Association, it appears some there think he is their delegate and not the constituency's representative - and since he's voted for MV2 and the government whipped extension to A50, this reflects badly on them, and not their MP.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47594875
0 -
Facebook and co are in so much sh*t now. Bet Clegg is glad he took on the new job.CarlottaVance said:
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1106434268572598272Sunil_Prasannan said:
Same thing for SeanT...TheScreamingEagles said:Anyone else shocked that Farage hasn’t tweeted about Christchurch.
Normally super Nige is the first to comment on terrorism involving Muslims.0 -
Well on here you and TUD seem determined to give them a lot of attention.nico67 said:The March to Leave is doing more harm than good .
When the turnout could fill a camper van it’s not a good look.0 -
Why? There is only so much they can do.rottenborough said:
Facebook and co are in so much sh*t now. Bet Clegg is glad he took on the new job.CarlottaVance said:
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1106434268572598272Sunil_Prasannan said:
Same thing for SeanT...TheScreamingEagles said:Anyone else shocked that Farage hasn’t tweeted about Christchurch.
Normally super Nige is the first to comment on terrorism involving Muslims.0 -
May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?0 -
Sure, quite a lot of the ERG could break. But to get the vote over the line, May needs the DUP. Otherwise the number of Labour rebels she needs is just too high.rottenborough said:May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?0 -
Pretty scary what is happening in Paris0
-
Or Labour.TheWhiteRabbit said:
Sure, quite a lot of the ERG could break. But to get the vote over the line, May needs the DUP. Otherwise the number of Labour rebels she needs is just too high.rottenborough said:May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?0 -
This is the same Daniel Kawczynski who was threatening to lobby the Polish government to stop them accepting an A50 extension? Quite a conversion.rottenborough said:May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?0 -
https://twitter.com/robfordmancs/status/1106943270041587715RobD said:
This is the same Daniel Kawczynski who was threatening to lobby the Polish government to stop them accepting an A50 extension? Quite a conversion.rottenborough said:May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?0 -
I don't think I have ever seen Ireland play as badly as this.0
-
And the same one who said WTO would be wonderful . If it’s so good why back Mays deal. Of course he’s just another ERG nutjob who peddles lies every time his mouth opens .RobD said:
This is the same Daniel Kawczynski who was threatening to lobby the Polish government to stop them accepting an A50 extension? Quite a conversion.rottenborough said:May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?
0 -
Seems he has had a massive dose of reality via meeting his actual constituents.nico67 said:
And the same one who said WTO would be wonderful . If it’s so good why back Mays deal. Of course he’s just another ERG nutjob who peddles lies every time his mouth opens .RobD said:
This is the same Daniel Kawczynski who was threatening to lobby the Polish government to stop them accepting an A50 extension? Quite a conversion.rottenborough said:May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?
0 -
Hilariously he makes out businesses want Brexit . He really is an odious creep who lied about the Marshall plan .rottenborough said:
Seems he has had a massive dose of reality via meeting his actual constituents.nico67 said:
And the same one who said WTO would be wonderful . If it’s so good why back Mays deal. Of course he’s just another ERG nutjob who peddles lies every time his mouth opens .RobD said:
This is the same Daniel Kawczynski who was threatening to lobby the Polish government to stop them accepting an A50 extension? Quite a conversion.rottenborough said:May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?0 -
I would be surprised if many Labour MPs were inclined to switch support in line with the DUP.0
-
I see nothing at all in his message that says he doesn't still think WTO would be better than the Deal. He may be right in that. But he clearly realises that No Deal has now been effectively scuppered and doesn't trust the PM not to revoke if there is no deal passed. As such he is taking a very sensible decision to back the Deal.nico67 said:
And the same one who said WTO would be wonderful . If it’s so good why back Mays deal. Of course he’s just another ERG nutjob who peddles lies every time his mouth opens .RobD said:
This is the same Daniel Kawczynski who was threatening to lobby the Polish government to stop them accepting an A50 extension? Quite a conversion.rottenborough said:May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?
He is just later coming to the acceptance that something is better than nothing than others.0 -
Hopefully that will be 2 million more people who are going to find out in the near future what all other mass marches have found over the years - that they make not a blind bit of difference.HYUFD said:
People's Vote is aiming for up to 2 million in London next Saturday, would have been more sensible for the March to Leave to just hold a rival rally in Sunderland on the same day, most Leavers do not want to do a hike across the UK to make a pointwilliamglenn said:
I think he dropped out some time ago.Scrapheap_as_was said:
Be fair - he's still got 200 miles to go.TheScreamingEagles said:Anyone else shocked that Farage hasn’t tweeted about Christchurch.
Normally super Nige is the first to comment on terrorism involving Muslims.
The morons will tell you UKIP only became anti-Muslim on Gerard Batten’s watch.
Happened way before that.
[unless private jet has taken off yet]
https://twitter.com/dazabdaza/status/1106927220583337984?s=210 -
If it's doing these roasters' cause harm, the more attention the better.Philip_Thompson said:
Well on here you and TUD seem determined to give them a lot of attention.nico67 said:The March to Leave is doing more harm than good .
When the turnout could fill a camper van it’s not a good look.0 -
So hilarious that senior representatives of both the CBI and FSB were on Sky News only a few days ago urging MPs to back the deal.nico67 said:
Hilariously he makes out businesses want Brexit . He really is an odious creep who lied about the Marshall plan .rottenborough said:
Seems he has had a massive dose of reality via meeting his actual constituents.nico67 said:
And the same one who said WTO would be wonderful . If it’s so good why back Mays deal. Of course he’s just another ERG nutjob who peddles lies every time his mouth opens .RobD said:
This is the same Daniel Kawczynski who was threatening to lobby the Polish government to stop them accepting an A50 extension? Quite a conversion.rottenborough said:May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?0 -
Senior representatives of the FSB?Richard_Tyndall said:So hilarious that senior representatives of both the CBI and FSB were on Sky News only a few days ago urging MPs to back the deal.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/10760792924156559370 -
No he has peddled WTO and has been given a reality check by businesses . At the same time the ERG have been sending a message that no deal was fine hence some Leavers now parading around with their deal is a betrayal signs. He has added to the division in the country by expecting Remainers to have to swallow not only Brexit but the absolute worst outcome . Leavers who want to leave in an orderly way I can cope with those pushing no deal are a disgrace .Richard_Tyndall said:
I see nothing at all in his message that says he doesn't still think WTO would be better than the Deal. He may be right in that. But he clearly realises that No Deal has now been effectively scuppered and doesn't trust the PM not to revoke if there is no deal passed. As such he is taking a very sensible decision to back the Deal.nico67 said:
And the same one who said WTO would be wonderful . If it’s so good why back Mays deal. Of course he’s just another ERG nutjob who peddles lies every time his mouth opens .RobD said:
This is the same Daniel Kawczynski who was threatening to lobby the Polish government to stop them accepting an A50 extension? Quite a conversion.rottenborough said:May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?
He is just later coming to the acceptance that something is better than nothing than others.0 -
This remains the best commentary so far on how Brexit is progressing - Chaplin himself would be proud.
https://twitter.com/RupertMyers/status/11068025159438008320 -
It's taken 19 years, but he's Putin his heart and soul into democracy.williamglenn said:
Senior representatives of the FSB?Richard_Tyndall said:So hilarious that senior representatives of both the CBI and FSB were on Sky News only a few days ago urging MPs to back the deal.
https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/10760792924156559370 -
The telling line there is "mood in my constituency changing quickly"rottenborough said:May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?
How about the mood in the country? Maybe we should find out? We could ask the people? Just needs a catchy name...0 -
-
I don't think its got anything to do with Brexit. Its all about control - Chris Bryant from 2015:rottenborough said:
I am afraid that one of the more poisonous long term effects of Brexit will be to have cemented this idea that an MP is simply their to reflect the views of their local party membership. You can see it happening over on the Labour side as anyone who isn't fully signed up Momentum worshipper is viewed with increasing suspicion.CarlottaVance said:Reading the BBC report on Boles resignation from his Association, it appears some there think he is their delegate and not the constituency's representative - and since he's voted for MV2 and the government whipped extension to A50, this reflects badly on them, and not their MP.
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47594875
This modern phenomenon also wants to turn MPs into delegates mandated online.
Now, I’ve always thought that Edmund Burke sounded rather arrogant when he told the voters of Bristol that an MP “owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion”.
The voters of Bristol thought so, too. They dispensed with his services at the election.
But Burke’s point is even more important in an era of social media, when every email, every tweet and every posting comes replete with the demand that an MP should do precisely as his or her constituents wish (which is always precisely as the correspondent wishes).
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/elections/2015/12/sorry-role-mp-be-representative-not-delegate
Brexit may have made it worse - but the tussle between representative democracy and (allegedly) delegated democracy is as old as democracy itself.0 -
That's very funny, but I'm sure somebody will take a fence at it.WhisperingOracle said:This remains the best commentary so far on how Brexit is progressing - Chaplin himself would be proud.
https://twitter.com/RupertMyers/status/11068025159438008320 -
So you're not talking about Brexit then?FrancisUrquhart said:I don't think I have ever seen Ireland play as badly as this.
0 -
0
-
Perhaps we should have had some Welshmen on the team. At least they wouldn't have been quite so sheep-like and woolly headed as Davis.CarlottaVance said:
So you're not talking about Brexit then?FrancisUrquhart said:I don't think I have ever seen Ireland play as badly as this.
0 -
-
https://twitter.com/RemyBuisine/status/1106898572598042624Marco1 said:Pretty scary what is happening in Paris
Nah....nothing to see here.
Meanwhile, that global laughing stock, the UK.....
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/11069580560621772800 -
Janet Daley: "If we can't leave on time, we should stay in - and become Macron's worst nightmare"
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/03/16/cant-leave-time-should-stay-become-macrons-worst-nightmare/0 -
I suspect the City might not be relocating to Paris next week.CarlottaVance said:
https://twitter.com/RemyBuisine/status/1106898572598042624Marco1 said:Pretty scary what is happening in Paris
Nah....nothing to see here.
Meanwhile, that global laughing stock, the UK.....0 -
Good afternoon, everyone.
Rather rubbish weather, again. Aim to have the ramble up around 5.30-6pm, depending how things go.0 -
There was an awful lot of wind about as they set off behind Farage.CarlottaVance said:It's how they tell'em:
https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1106955844598546439
And the weather wasn't very nice either.0 -
-
0
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Didn't Wales largely vote to leave? Old Nige must have a few closet supporters in the ValleysScott_P said:0 -
In the bag.Scott_P said:
On Paris, am I right that Macron's popularity has recovered somewhat since the yellow vesters went too far?0 -
They're going a bit further today.....kle4 said:
In the bag.Scott_P said:
On Paris, am I right that Macron's popularity has recovered somewhat since the yellow vesters went too far?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/french-yellow-vests-clash-with-police-in-paris/2019/03/16/b1b9e6d4-47d3-11e9-94ab-d2dda3c0df52_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.04816dcacbfb0 -
0
-
That was more embarrassingly one sided than a Brexit negotiation.
At least the English led at half time.0 -
French police tried to contain the demonstrators with tear gas and water cannon with limited success.twistedfirestopper3 said:
They're going a bit further today.....kle4 said:
In the bag.Scott_P said:
On Paris, am I right that Macron's popularity has recovered somewhat since the yellow vesters went too far?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/french-yellow-vests-clash-with-police-in-paris/2019/03/16/b1b9e6d4-47d3-11e9-94ab-d2dda3c0df52_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.04816dcacbfb0 -
https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1106958517255192579HYUFD said:
If the DUP switch May does not need many more Labour MPs as most of the ERG will cave, especially given the clear risk of no Brexit at alljustin124 said:I would be surprised if many Labour MPs were inclined to switch support in line with the DUP.
0 -
Yes , it’s picked up over the last few months . The disgraceful scenes in Paris will just drive more of the public against them. Protest is in the French DNA but events have got out of control now and these protests have been hijacked by anarchists . You can’t have mob rule deciding policy . I have no problem with peaceful protest . But once these people started vandalizing the Arc De Triomphe earlier in the year their support has nosedived .kle4 said:
In the bag.Scott_P said:
On Paris, am I right that Macron's popularity has recovered somewhat since the yellow vesters went too far?
0 -
A second referendum is perfectly acceptable, although a 52-48 vote for Remain would be problematic. A straight up cancellation would be disastrous, but it should see the end of most of the Wankers of Westminster's political careers, so it's not all bad.CarlottaVance said:Well, we'll see:
https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/11069596197531525120 -
A second referendum mandated by a party winning a majority at a general election on that basis is indeed perfectly acceptable.twistedfirestopper3 said:
A second referendum is perfectly acceptableCarlottaVance said:Well, we'll see:
https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1106959619753152512
Otherwise its an abuse of process.0 -
A fewrottenborough said:
May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?
A few no doubt. I know a couple of Tory cllrs and they were scathing about what was going on in Westminster. In fairness I don’t think they were ever fired up brexiteers though.rottenborough said:May might yet win:
https://twitter.com/tpgcolson/status/1106940439578533889
Local NUF and business people, councillors - telling MP to back it and get it done.
How many other ERGers are getting this message this weekend?0 -
Really? What about the AV referendum which went against a manifesto commitment to FPTP by the Tories 2010?CarlottaVance said:
A second referendum mandated by a party winning a majority at a general election on that basis is indeed perfectly acceptable.twistedfirestopper3 said:
A second referendum is perfectly acceptableCarlottaVance said:Well, we'll see:
https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1106959619753152512
Otherwise its an abuse of process.0 -
They didn't win a majority.williamglenn said:
Really? What about the AV referendum which went against a manifesto commitment to FPTP by the Tories 2010?CarlottaVance said:
A second referendum mandated by a party winning a majority at a general election on that basis is indeed perfectly acceptable.twistedfirestopper3 said:
A second referendum is perfectly acceptableCarlottaVance said:Well, we'll see:
https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1106959619753152512
Otherwise its an abuse of process.0 -
The irreconciliables seem to be undecided as to whether May would go nuclear and revoke Article 50 if by 29th March no deal was staring us in the face. But that conundrum only arises if the EU fail to grant the UK an extension. More likely perhaps they do so and we move towards a soft Norway plus Brexit - would that be better than May's deal for the ERG?0
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I cannot figure out why a lab mp would back it at mv3 if not at mv2. There was and is no guarantee they’d even get another chance and they don’t seen as exercised about the backstop as the Tory hold outs.justin124 said:I would be surprised if many Labour MPs were inclined to switch support in line with the DUP.
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There wasn't a Conservative government after the 2010 GE.williamglenn said:
Really? What about the AV referendum which went against a manifesto commitment to FPTP by the Tories 2010?CarlottaVance said:
A second referendum mandated by a party winning a majority at a general election on that basis is indeed perfectly acceptable.twistedfirestopper3 said:
A second referendum is perfectly acceptableCarlottaVance said:Well, we'll see:
https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1106959619753152512
Otherwise its an abuse of process.0 -
Just like now then...CarlottaVance said:
They didn't win a majority.williamglenn said:
Really? What about the AV referendum which went against a manifesto commitment to FPTP by the Tories 2010?CarlottaVance said:
A second referendum mandated by a party winning a majority at a general election on that basis is indeed perfectly acceptable.twistedfirestopper3 said:
A second referendum is perfectly acceptableCarlottaVance said:Well, we'll see:
https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1106959619753152512
Otherwise its an abuse of process.0 -
Absolutely no way the UK can just cancel Brexit and pretend it never happened .
It has to go to a second vote . As a Remainer I couldn’t support anything that didn’t involve the public having the final say .
That would cause terrible damage to the country , a second vote is the only way .
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Backing it if it takes it over the line would deliver a sense of achievement that reducing May's loss cannot.kle4 said:
I cannot figure out why a lab mp would back it at mv3 if not at mv2. There was and is no guarantee they’d even get another chance and they don’t seen as exercised about the backstop as the Tory hold outs.justin124 said:I would be surprised if many Labour MPs were inclined to switch support in line with the DUP.
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https://codastory.com/disinformation/yellow-vests-donbas-paris/nico67 said:
Yes , it’s picked up over the last few months . The disgraceful scenes in Paris will just drive more of the public against them. Protest is in the French DNA but events have got out of control now and these protests have been hijacked by anarchists . You can’t have mob rule deciding policy . I have no problem with peaceful protest . But once these people started vandalizing the Arc De Triomphe earlier in the year their support has nosedived .kle4 said:
In the bag.Scott_P said:
On Paris, am I right that Macron's popularity has recovered somewhat since the yellow vesters went too far?
Here is yet another link between disruption in the West and Russian subversion. There is considerable evidence of a systematic and sustained attempt to damage democratic states that is both coordinated and funded by the Kremlin.
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Why should anyone pay attention to a second referendum when the first was ignored ?nico67 said:Absolutely no way the UK can just cancel Brexit and pretend it never happened .
It has to go to a second vote . As a Remainer I couldn’t support anything that didn’t involve the public having the final say .
That would cause terrible damage to the country , a second vote is the only way .
Or do referenda only count when they produce the answer the establishment wants ?0 -
So we agree that there is no mandate for a second referendumwilliamglenn said:
Just like now then...CarlottaVance said:
They didn't win a majority.williamglenn said:
Really? What about the AV referendum which went against a manifesto commitment to FPTP by the Tories 2010?CarlottaVance said:
A second referendum mandated by a party winning a majority at a general election on that basis is indeed perfectly acceptable.twistedfirestopper3 said:
A second referendum is perfectly acceptableCarlottaVance said:Well, we'll see:
https://twitter.com/acgrayling/status/1106959619753152512
Otherwise its an abuse of process.0 -
An alternative explanation is that Western governments have been treating too many of their own people like crap.Cicero said:
https://codastory.com/disinformation/yellow-vests-donbas-paris/nico67 said:
Yes , it’s picked up over the last few months . The disgraceful scenes in Paris will just drive more of the public against them. Protest is in the French DNA but events have got out of control now and these protests have been hijacked by anarchists . You can’t have mob rule deciding policy . I have no problem with peaceful protest . But once these people started vandalizing the Arc De Triomphe earlier in the year their support has nosedived .kle4 said:
In the bag.Scott_P said:
On Paris, am I right that Macron's popularity has recovered somewhat since the yellow vesters went too far?
Here is yet another link between disruption in the West and Russian subversion. There is considerable evidence of a systematic and sustained attempt to damage democratic states that is both coordinated and funded by the Kremlin.0 -
They need to show some backbone. unless every erg mp says what they intend we won’t know how close it is. Who knows, 20 lab MPs might persuade some Tories to switch as they see it might be close.IanB2 said:
Backing it if it takes it over the line would deliver a sense of achievement that reducing May's loss cannot.kle4 said:
I cannot figure out why a lab mp would back it at mv3 if not at mv2. There was and is no guarantee they’d even get another chance and they don’t seen as exercised about the backstop as the Tory hold outs.justin124 said:I would be surprised if many Labour MPs were inclined to switch support in line with the DUP.
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He’s certainly going to have to work hard for his $1m salary, that’s for sure.rottenborough said:
Facebook and co are in so much sh*t now. Bet Clegg is glad he took on the new job.CarlottaVance said:
https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1106434268572598272Sunil_Prasannan said:
Same thing for SeanT...TheScreamingEagles said:Anyone else shocked that Farage hasn’t tweeted about Christchurch.
Normally super Nige is the first to comment on terrorism involving Muslims.
First job, explain to politicians worldwide how come there are still copies of a murderous rampage - filmed by the terrorist and streamed live - all over their platform.0
