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Or if the Honda plant had been in Dublin or Dusseldorf.MarqueeMark said:
Nothing I have read says Honda's decision would have been any different if we had voted to Remain.CarlottaVance said:
“This decision was not informed by Brexit,” said Honda Chief Executive Takahiro Hachigo.williamglenn said:How the Honda decision is being reported in Asia:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Honda-to-shut-UK-plant-by-2022-in-another-Brexit-retreat
Honda to shut UK plant by 2022 in another Brexit retreat
The prospect of Brexit, scheduled for March 29, added yet more uncertainty to a business already mired in red ink. While peer automakers are planning more moderate measures such as temporary stoppages in light of Brexit-linked uncertainty, Honda plans to go a step further by shutting down its only production site in Europe.
Other international companies, including Japanese electronics makers Panasonic and Sony, plan to relocate certain British operations to the European mainland.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-honda-idUKKCN1Q80KF0 -
Or Turkey...oh it was...and it’s gone too.CarlottaVance said:
Or if the Honda plant had been in Dublin or Dusseldorf.MarqueeMark said:
Nothing I have read says Honda's decision would have been any different if we had voted to Remain.CarlottaVance said:
“This decision was not informed by Brexit,” said Honda Chief Executive Takahiro Hachigo.williamglenn said:How the Honda decision is being reported in Asia:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Honda-to-shut-UK-plant-by-2022-in-another-Brexit-retreat
Honda to shut UK plant by 2022 in another Brexit retreat
The prospect of Brexit, scheduled for March 29, added yet more uncertainty to a business already mired in red ink. While peer automakers are planning more moderate measures such as temporary stoppages in light of Brexit-linked uncertainty, Honda plans to go a step further by shutting down its only production site in Europe.
Other international companies, including Japanese electronics makers Panasonic and Sony, plan to relocate certain British operations to the European mainland.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-honda-idUKKCN1Q80KF0 -
No longer carrying all that weight is what's done it!Cyclefree said:One politician who has impressed me in recent weeks, much to my surprise, has been Tom Watson.
He used to be a bit of a thug, in Brown days. Perhaps he still is. His behaviour over the child abuse accusations was very poor indeed.
And yet he has made two good speeches in recent weeks: one about Mrs May’s failings as leader, which applied to more people than just her. And his statement on Facebook last night following the departure of the Tiggers (brilliant name BTW @Anazina!) was very thoughtful. It struck me as the speech of a leader, of someone who wants to be leader, someone who will be leader, if the opportunity arises.
One to watch, I think.0 -
I thought his response on Facebook was very good indeed. But the position of deputy leader in the Labour party, though elected, seems to be a position of no power at all and it is not clear what he can do if Corbyn decides otherwise.Cyclefree said:One politician who has impressed me in recent weeks, much to my surprise, has been Tom Watson.
He used to be a bit of a thug, in Brown days. Perhaps he still is. His behaviour over the child abuse accusations was very poor indeed.
And yet he has made two good speeches in recent weeks: one about Mrs May’s failings as leader, which applied to more people than just her. And his statement on Facebook last night following the departure of the Tiggers (brilliant name BTW @Anazina!) was very thoughtful. It struck me as the speech of a leader, of someone who wants to be leader, someone who will be leader, if the opportunity arises.
One to watch, I think.0 -
Would they tie up with a Party with a part-Palestinian leader, though?Tissue_Price said:0 -
Honda are playing it shrewdly. They know if they explicitly cited Brexit there'd be cries 'treachery', undermining the 'will of the people' and calls for boycotts. Better for them to stay well out of the debate and not antagonise us further.MarqueeMark said:
Nothing I have read says Honda's decision would have been any different if we had voted to Remain.CarlottaVance said:
“This decision was not informed by Brexit,” said Honda Chief Executive Takahiro Hachigo.williamglenn said:How the Honda decision is being reported in Asia:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Honda-to-shut-UK-plant-by-2022-in-another-Brexit-retreat
Honda to shut UK plant by 2022 in another Brexit retreat
The prospect of Brexit, scheduled for March 29, added yet more uncertainty to a business already mired in red ink. While peer automakers are planning more moderate measures such as temporary stoppages in light of Brexit-linked uncertainty, Honda plans to go a step further by shutting down its only production site in Europe.
Other international companies, including Japanese electronics makers Panasonic and Sony, plan to relocate certain British operations to the European mainland.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-honda-idUKKCN1Q80KF0 -
I think it is brexit. The government hasn't created the conditions for companies to invest in electric vehicle manufacturing in the UK. We've got a huge cloud over our future trading relationships and just as the industry is about to go through huge changes the government aren't even in first gear, they've stalled the car. I put the blame on Liam Fox and the idiots who didn't vote through the PM's deal.Slackbladder said:
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.CarlottaVance said:Honda announcement:
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2019/c190219beng.html
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....0 -
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.0 -
To say Tom Watson was poor over child abuse stuff is one way of putting it...another is he launched a disgraceful politically motivated witch-hunt based on claims by a highly troubled individual, while totally ignoring credible accusations against individuals in his own party.0
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Corbyn was against expelling Militant Tendency members back in the 1980’s. So it is entirely in keeping with his views that people like Hatton would be let back in.felix said:
That's correct. Interestingly Mcdonnell much more conciliatory today suggesting they're rattled. The Hatton thing however is grotesque and shows the true direction of travel.SouthamObserver said:It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
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Taking the place of machines. Businesses are hiring easy to fire people rather than expensive to write off machinery.DavidL said:
Even as someone who tends towards the optimistic on the economy I find these figures bewildering. If output is only rising modestly what the hell are all these people doing? How many fast food delivery cyclists can our economy sustain?TheWhiteRabbit said:Honda aside, today saw the release of another very strong set of jobs numbers, with the economy adding 427,000 full time jobs in the last year, and a significant q-o-q reduction in both unemployment and inactivity.
Pay growth continues to sit at 3.4%, expanding its lead over inflation slightly to 1.3% - although these things take time to feed into people's wallets in a meaningful way.0 -
It’s the perfect storm of change to electric vehicles / diesel scandal / Japan EU Free Trade deal / Brexit uncertainty. We should expect most Japanese and Korean manufacturing / assembly bases in the U.K. to close in the next decade.MaxPB said:
I think it is brexit. The government hasn't created the conditions for companies to invest in electric vehicle manufacturing in the UK. We've got a huge cloud over our future trading relationships and just as the industry is about to go through huge changes the government aren't even in first gear, they've stalled the car. I put the blame on Liam Fox and the idiots who didn't vote through the PM's deal.Slackbladder said:
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.CarlottaVance said:Honda announcement:
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2019/c190219beng.html
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
What this means is that we have to be hard headed and ask what we are good at. Food / Fishing / advanced manufacturing and r&d / services / finance / higher education. Focus on those0 -
The construction figures have been a bit of a joke for a long time. I don't recall the exact figures but there was a 3 year period recently when construction was allegedly in or sitting next to a recession throughout but, on revisal, output was up over 20% over the period.Sean_F said:
In all likelihood, in future years, the ONS will revise output numbers up, as they did for the 2010-2013 period (remember the "double dip recession" of 2012 which turned out never to have happened). No one truly believes that construction output only rose by 0.7% last year, for example.DavidL said:
Even as someone who tends towards the optimistic on the economy I find these figures bewildering. If output is only rising modestly what the hell are all these people doing? How many fast food delivery cyclists can our economy sustain?TheWhiteRabbit said:Honda aside, today saw the release of another very strong set of jobs numbers, with the economy adding 427,000 full time jobs in the last year, and a significant q-o-q reduction in both unemployment and inactivity.
Pay growth continues to sit at 3.4%, expanding its lead over inflation slightly to 1.3% - although these things take time to feed into people's wallets in a meaningful way.
440K workers is 1.25% of the workforce. Unless the productivity figures are even worse than claimed we must be growing faster than that.0 -
It's theoretically possible but I don't see evidence for it, do you?MaxPB said:
Taking the place of machines. Businesses are hiring easy to fire people rather than expensive to write off machinery.DavidL said:
Even as someone who tends towards the optimistic on the economy I find these figures bewildering. If output is only rising modestly what the hell are all these people doing? How many fast food delivery cyclists can our economy sustain?TheWhiteRabbit said:Honda aside, today saw the release of another very strong set of jobs numbers, with the economy adding 427,000 full time jobs in the last year, and a significant q-o-q reduction in both unemployment and inactivity.
Pay growth continues to sit at 3.4%, expanding its lead over inflation slightly to 1.3% - although these things take time to feed into people's wallets in a meaningful way.0 -
If that's his taste you should have stopped off in Hartlepool......Dura_Ace said:
I once had to fly a senior Bahraini officer in a Hawk to the Hawk assembly line Brough. It was fucking filthy and looked like something out of Dickens but he was courteous enough to pretend to be impressed. We had a fierce night out in Hull with BAe after though where he got wrecked and pulled a fatty who milked him dry. As we flew over the wild majesty of northern England limned in the white gold of the winter sun on the next morning he said simply, "My balls hurt."Roger said:
I have been to the Audi BMW and Mercedes factories in Germany having shot commercials for all three. They were all in their different ways like the Guggenheim in Bilbao. i've never seen factories like them. i don't know what the British ones are like but I suspect if they were anything like the German ones they'd have sell-out guided tours.Sandpit said:
Because the British manufacturers at the top end of the car market don't care too much about Europe. Their biggest markets are the USA, China, Middle East and the domestic UK market.Roger said:
Why build here with our uncertain future when the world's largest market is just a stone's throw away and we're not part of it?Sandpit said:
No-one mentions companies like McLaren adding over a thousand jobs in the last two years, nor Rolls-Royce, Bentley, Aston Martin, Lotus, TVR, eight out of ten F1 teams, Formula E teams and a whole lot of other car-related manufacturing companies within an hour’s drive of Swindon - all of whom are hiring right now.
Hopefully the company and the relevant government departments will find ways to place people around the industry. Greg Clark needs to step up to this and make sure Honda commit to making sure people get found jobs as the factory closes.
Rolls-Royce and McLaren are not about to start making cars elsewhere, nor to they have the volumes to open a second factory. A significant part of their branding is British expertise in luxury and performance vehicles.0 -
Just seen. Bernie Sanders IS having another go.0
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Sanders is running.0
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Yes, business investment is down and employment is up, and that is reflected in output per worker.DavidL said:
It's theoretically possible but I don't see evidence for it, do you?MaxPB said:
Taking the place of machines. Businesses are hiring easy to fire people rather than expensive to write off machinery.DavidL said:
Even as someone who tends towards the optimistic on the economy I find these figures bewildering. If output is only rising modestly what the hell are all these people doing? How many fast food delivery cyclists can our economy sustain?TheWhiteRabbit said:Honda aside, today saw the release of another very strong set of jobs numbers, with the economy adding 427,000 full time jobs in the last year, and a significant q-o-q reduction in both unemployment and inactivity.
Pay growth continues to sit at 3.4%, expanding its lead over inflation slightly to 1.3% - although these things take time to feed into people's wallets in a meaningful way.0 -
I haven’t seen any articles where anybody seems to have been able to explain what is going on. The likes of the bbc initially would speculate it was zero hours, it was part time jobs, it was low paid one etc, all of which have been debunked.DavidL said:
It's theoretically possible but I don't see evidence for it, do you?MaxPB said:
Taking the place of machines. Businesses are hiring easy to fire people rather than expensive to write off machinery.DavidL said:
Even as someone who tends towards the optimistic on the economy I find these figures bewildering. If output is only rising modestly what the hell are all these people doing? How many fast food delivery cyclists can our economy sustain?TheWhiteRabbit said:Honda aside, today saw the release of another very strong set of jobs numbers, with the economy adding 427,000 full time jobs in the last year, and a significant q-o-q reduction in both unemployment and inactivity.
Pay growth continues to sit at 3.4%, expanding its lead over inflation slightly to 1.3% - although these things take time to feed into people's wallets in a meaningful way.0 -
The willingness to cling to their unicorns and allow the uncertainty to go on and on and on is truly disgraceful. This deal should have been put to bed before Christmas at the very latest.MaxPB said:
I think it is brexit. The government hasn't created the conditions for companies to invest in electric vehicle manufacturing in the UK. We've got a huge cloud over our future trading relationships and just as the industry is about to go through huge changes the government aren't even in first gear, they've stalled the car. I put the blame on Liam Fox and the idiots who didn't vote through the PM's deal.Slackbladder said:
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.CarlottaVance said:Honda announcement:
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2019/c190219beng.html
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....0 -
And yet you voted to keep the foreigners out. Foreigners which you acknowledge contribute to economic growth.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.
Now of course you voted Leave because you were sick and tired of the EU inspectors on the 21A bus to Cromarty but your vote was for a package of measures including keeping the foreigners out.0 -
Is there anybody in the US who isn’t running?OldKingCole said:Just seen. Bernie Sanders IS having another go.
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Bugger.williamglenn said:Sanders is running.
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Since 2013, construction output has risen by one third. But, based on initial estimates, you would think it had been in recession for that whole period.DavidL said:
The construction figures have been a bit of a joke for a long time. I don't recall the exact figures but there was a 3 year period recently when construction was allegedly in or sitting next to a recession throughout but, on revisal, output was up over 20% over the period.Sean_F said:
In all likelihood, in future years, the ONS will revise output numbers up, as they did for the 2010-2013 period (remember the "double dip recession" of 2012 which turned out never to have happened). No one truly believes that construction output only rose by 0.7% last year, for example.DavidL said:
Even as someone who tends towards the optimistic on the economy I find these figures bewildering. If output is only rising modestly what the hell are all these people doing? How many fast food delivery cyclists can our economy sustain?TheWhiteRabbit said:Honda aside, today saw the release of another very strong set of jobs numbers, with the economy adding 427,000 full time jobs in the last year, and a significant q-o-q reduction in both unemployment and inactivity.
Pay growth continues to sit at 3.4%, expanding its lead over inflation slightly to 1.3% - although these things take time to feed into people's wallets in a meaningful way.
440K workers is 1.25% of the workforce. Unless the productivity figures are even worse than claimed we must be growing faster than that.0 -
It beggars belief that people can't understand that were we not Brexiting, or were the Brexit we chose a more benign version, then the UK government could have made a play at keeping some, all, part, or a different version of Honda in the UK.MaxPB said:
I think it is brexit. The government hasn't created the conditions for companies to invest in electric vehicle manufacturing in the UK. We've got a huge cloud over our future trading relationships and just as the industry is about to go through huge changes the government aren't even in first gear, they've stalled the car. I put the blame on Liam Fox and the idiots who didn't vote through the PM's deal.Slackbladder said:
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.CarlottaVance said:Honda announcement:
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2019/c190219beng.html
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
As it is, the uncertainty, together with our possible Hard, and in any case Chaotic Brexit precludes that.0 -
I agree.FrancisUrquhart said:To say Tom Watson was poor over child abuse stuff is one way of putting it...another is he launched a disgraceful politically motivated witch-hunt based on claims by a highly troubled individual, while totally ignoring credible accusations against individuals in his own party.
But he has shown another more thoughtful side recently.0 -
Mr. L, if the deal weren't atrocious, it would've passed.
Making the backstop harder to leave than the EU is drunken madness.
I'm not in favour of leaving without a deal. A good deal would be fantastic, but it's not going to happen.0 -
Learning from experience/reflection?Cyclefree said:
I agree.FrancisUrquhart said:To say Tom Watson was poor over child abuse stuff is one way of putting it...another is he launched a disgraceful politically motivated witch-hunt based on claims by a highly troubled individual, while totally ignoring credible accusations against individuals in his own party.
But he has shown another more thoughtful side recently.0 -
"Between 2016 and 2017, GFCF grew by 3.5% while business investment grew by 1.5%."MaxPB said:
Yes, business investment is down and employment is up, and that is reflected in output per worker.DavidL said:
It's theoretically possible but I don't see evidence for it, do you?MaxPB said:
Taking the place of machines. Businesses are hiring easy to fire people rather than expensive to write off machinery.DavidL said:
Even as someone who tends towards the optimistic on the economy I find these figures bewildering. If output is only rising modestly what the hell are all these people doing? How many fast food delivery cyclists can our economy sustain?TheWhiteRabbit said:Honda aside, today saw the release of another very strong set of jobs numbers, with the economy adding 427,000 full time jobs in the last year, and a significant q-o-q reduction in both unemployment and inactivity.
Pay growth continues to sit at 3.4%, expanding its lead over inflation slightly to 1.3% - although these things take time to feed into people's wallets in a meaningful way.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/grossdomesticproductgdp/bulletins/businessinvestment/julytoseptember2018revisedresults
I mean its not exactly roaring away but its not static or falling either. There is no doubt that Brexit uncertainty is causing a pause at the moment though.0 -
I wonder if he’s positioning himself for a post-Corbyn Labour party or a new one, if his Labour party cannot be saved.DavidL said:
I thought his response on Facebook was very good indeed. But the position of deputy leader in the Labour party, though elected, seems to be a position of no power at all and it is not clear what he can do if Corbyn decides otherwise.Cyclefree said:One politician who has impressed me in recent weeks, much to my surprise, has been Tom Watson.
He used to be a bit of a thug, in Brown days. Perhaps he still is. His behaviour over the child abuse accusations was very poor indeed.
And yet he has made two good speeches in recent weeks: one about Mrs May’s failings as leader, which applied to more people than just her. And his statement on Facebook last night following the departure of the Tiggers (brilliant name BTW @Anazina!) was very thoughtful. It struck me as the speech of a leader, of someone who wants to be leader, someone who will be leader, if the opportunity arises.
One to watch, I think.0 -
Did you not foresee any of this, David, looking at some of your fellow travellers on the Brexit Ford Anglia?DavidL said:
The willingness to cling to their unicorns and allow the uncertainty to go on and on and on is truly disgraceful. This deal should have been put to bed before Christmas at the very latest.MaxPB said:
I think it is brexit. The government hasn't created the conditions for companies to invest in electric vehicle manufacturing in the UK. We've got a huge cloud over our future trading relationships and just as the industry is about to go through huge changes the government aren't even in first gear, they've stalled the car. I put the blame on Liam Fox and the idiots who didn't vote through the PM's deal.Slackbladder said:
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.CarlottaVance said:Honda announcement:
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2019/c190219beng.html
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....0 -
Certainly looks like it in Mid/N Essex. SW Colchester is a massive building site.Sean_F said:
Since 2013, construction output has risen by one third. But, based on initial estimates, you would think it had been in recession for that whole period.DavidL said:
The construction figures have been a bit of a joke for a long time. I don't recall the exact figures but there was a 3 year period recently when construction was allegedly in or sitting next to a recession throughout but, on revisal, output was up over 20% over the period.Sean_F said:
In all likelihood, in future years, the ONS will revise output numbers up, as they did for the 2010-2013 period (remember the "double dip recession" of 2012 which turned out never to have happened). No one truly believes that construction output only rose by 0.7% last year, for example.DavidL said:
Even as someone who tends towards the optimistic on the economy I find these figures bewildering. If output is only rising modestly what the hell are all these people doing? How many fast food delivery cyclists can our economy sustain?TheWhiteRabbit said:Honda aside, today saw the release of another very strong set of jobs numbers, with the economy adding 427,000 full time jobs in the last year, and a significant q-o-q reduction in both unemployment and inactivity.
Pay growth continues to sit at 3.4%, expanding its lead over inflation slightly to 1.3% - although these things take time to feed into people's wallets in a meaningful way.
440K workers is 1.25% of the workforce. Unless the productivity figures are even worse than claimed we must be growing faster than that.0 -
I think it has as much to do what the extremists in and around the leadership do and say that he sounds more reasonable ie please don’t go calling life long labour supporters, whose family history is part of the labour movement a Zionist traitor.Cyclefree said:
I agree.FrancisUrquhart said:To say Tom Watson was poor over child abuse stuff is one way of putting it...another is he launched a disgraceful politically motivated witch-hunt based on claims by a highly troubled individual, while totally ignoring credible accusations against individuals in his own party.
But he has shown another more thoughtful side recently.0 -
I'm curious why you as a Labour warrior were so keen on Leaving?. It wasn't a dislike of foreigners or wanting more sovereignty or any Colonel Blimpish idea of Empire or you wouldn't be a lefty. So what is it?bigjohnowls said:
Do you ever wonder how many people will vote differently in a losers vote.Roger said:
Do you ever wonder whether it's possible those voting Brexit didn't think it through?Nigelb said:
What Wolff said - make of it what you will:Morris_Dancer said:Mr. B, I didn't see any detail as to how, though.
“We are looking at the various scenarios with Mercedes-Benz UK because it not only impacts Formula 1 but it impacts also the mother brand in terms of getting cars and parts in and out of the country,
“But I can see very much if a ‘no deal’ Brexit would happen like [has] been discussed I think we would have a major impact in terms of our operation going to the races and getting our cars developed and ready. So that is a nightmare scenario that I don’t want to even envisage.
“Ferrari in Italy, Sauber [now Alfa Romeo] in Switzerland, they would have a massive advantage over every UK-based team,
“Brexit is a major concern for us and should be a major concern for all of us that live in the UK and operate out of the UK,” said Wolff. “We are Formula 1 teams that travel to races and tests at least 21 times a year. We are moving in and out of the UK, our people move in and out of the UK, the way we are getting parts and services is just-in-time at the last minute into the UK and any major disruption in borders or with taxes would massively damage the Formula One industry in the UK.
“Our team is an international team. We are German car brand that has its own Formula 1 operations in the United Kingdom we have many different nationalities.
“And there is uncertainty at the moment of whether the industry is going to be impacted by a no-deal Brexit or a Brexit that is that is damaging to what for me is one of the the the outstanding industries in the United Kingdom. And we’ve said that before. The mother of all messes.”
What then.0 -
I voted leave so that we could decide how many and who could come to our country, things that we were not able to control in the EU. I have no problem with people who are going to make a contribution coming if we need them. Right now we probably do but that will not always be the case. I want these decisions to be made by people I can vote for and against. It's not that complicated.TOPPING said:
And yet you voted to keep the foreigners out. Foreigners which you acknowledge contribute to economic growth.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.
Now of course you voted Leave because you were sick and tired of the EU inspectors on the 21A bus to Cromarty but your vote was for a package of measures including keeping the foreigners out.0 -
I think that's the first time that I've seen a Leaver admit that there may have been the teeniest bit of xenophobia fluttering the hearts of *some* of those who voted for Leave. Well played.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.0 -
100% agreed.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. L, if the deal weren't atrocious, it would've passed.
Making the backstop harder to leave than the EU is drunken madness.
I'm not in favour of leaving without a deal. A good deal would be fantastic, but it's not going to happen.
The transition should BE the backstop. With a 2 year unilateral exit clause which is the same as the exit clause for Article 50. We would essentially then remain in a limbo of transition until the final agreement is ready, or give a minimum of 2 more years notice that we are leaving the transition without a deal.0 -
It's not at all complicated. As is not the point that people you voted for decided that they wanted to establish FoM EU-wide. But that's an old battle.DavidL said:
I voted leave so that we could decide how many and who could come to our country, things that we were not able to control in the EU. I have no problem with people who are going to make a contribution coming if we need them. Right now we probably do but that will not always be the case. I want these decisions to be made by people I can vote for and against. It's not that complicated.TOPPING said:
And yet you voted to keep the foreigners out. Foreigners which you acknowledge contribute to economic growth.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.
Now of course you voted Leave because you were sick and tired of the EU inspectors on the 21A bus to Cromarty but your vote was for a package of measures including keeping the foreigners out.
How about the horlicks that is being made of Brexit? Did it never occur to you that some of your fellow travellers wouldn't be so sensible as you are?0 -
Its blindingly obvious isn't it?Theuniondivvie said:
I think that's the first time that I've seen a Leaver admit that there may have been the teeniest bit of xenophobia fluttering the hearts of *some* of those who voted for Leave. Well played.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.
There is also xenophobia in the hearts of *some* of those who voted Remain too.0 -
In all honesty no. I thought our political class were inept, venal, incompetent and generally useless but it turns out I was naive, not cynical. Of course those who were elected to respect the vote but then do everything in their power to thwart it are also a major part of the problem. If they had kept their promises the deal would now be in place.TOPPING said:
Did you not foresee any of this, David, looking at some of your fellow travellers on the Brexit Ford Anglia?DavidL said:
The willingness to cling to their unicorns and allow the uncertainty to go on and on and on is truly disgraceful. This deal should have been put to bed before Christmas at the very latest.MaxPB said:
I think it is brexit. The government hasn't created the conditions for companies to invest in electric vehicle manufacturing in the UK. We've got a huge cloud over our future trading relationships and just as the industry is about to go through huge changes the government aren't even in first gear, they've stalled the car. I put the blame on Liam Fox and the idiots who didn't vote through the PM's deal.Slackbladder said:
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.CarlottaVance said:Honda announcement:
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2019/c190219beng.html
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....0 -
It occured to me. I'm content that we can chuck the buggers our if they make a horlicks of it here while I see no way to.chuck Juncker et al out.TOPPING said:
It's not at all complicated. As is not the point that people you voted for decided that they wanted to establish FoM EU-wide. But that's an old battle.DavidL said:
I voted leave so that we could decide how many and who could come to our country, things that we were not able to control in the EU. I have no problem with people who are going to make a contribution coming if we need them. Right now we probably do but that will not always be the case. I want these decisions to be made by people I can vote for and against. It's not that complicated.TOPPING said:
And yet you voted to keep the foreigners out. Foreigners which you acknowledge contribute to economic growth.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.
Now of course you voted Leave because you were sick and tired of the EU inspectors on the 21A bus to Cromarty but your vote was for a package of measures including keeping the foreigners out.
How about the horlicks that is being made of Brexit? Did it never occur to you that some of your fellow travellers wouldn't be so sensible as you are?0 -
Anyway, I must be off. Play nicely everyone.0
-
-
How many companies have bought £250k mechanical car washes recently?MaxPB said:
Taking the place of machines. Businesses are hiring easy to fire people rather than expensive to write off machinery.DavidL said:
Even as someone who tends towards the optimistic on the economy I find these figures bewildering. If output is only rising modestly what the hell are all these people doing? How many fast food delivery cyclists can our economy sustain?TheWhiteRabbit said:Honda aside, today saw the release of another very strong set of jobs numbers, with the economy adding 427,000 full time jobs in the last year, and a significant q-o-q reduction in both unemployment and inactivity.
Pay growth continues to sit at 3.4%, expanding its lead over inflation slightly to 1.3% - although these things take time to feed into people's wallets in a meaningful way.
For a whole number of reasons we need to incentivise capital investment over labour, especially unskilled labour.0 -
McDonnell says Labour needs tp.listen.post defections... far too late and Labour will.not listen.. Corbyn's mind is made up.0
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Like Remainer May for example?TOPPING said:
It's not at all complicated. As is not the point that people you voted for decided that they wanted to establish FoM EU-wide. But that's an old battle.DavidL said:
I voted leave so that we could decide how many and who could come to our country, things that we were not able to control in the EU. I have no problem with people who are going to make a contribution coming if we need them. Right now we probably do but that will not always be the case. I want these decisions to be made by people I can vote for and against. It's not that complicated.TOPPING said:
And yet you voted to keep the foreigners out. Foreigners which you acknowledge contribute to economic growth.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.
Now of course you voted Leave because you were sick and tired of the EU inspectors on the 21A bus to Cromarty but your vote was for a package of measures including keeping the foreigners out.
How about the horlicks that is being made of Brexit? Did it never occur to you that some of your fellow travellers wouldn't be so sensible as you are?0 -
-
Its not just Corbyn, McDonnell says a lot of things he doesn't believe...the difference Corbyn just doesn't bother to lie.SquareRoot said:McDonnell says Labour needs tp.listen.post defections... far too late and Labour will.not listen.. Corbyn's mind is made up.
McDonnell: I joined Labour only as a tactic
John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, told hard-left allies that he had joined the Labour party as a “tactic” because it was a “useful vehicle”.
MPs have seized on the remarks, caught on film four years ago, as evidence that McDonnell is an “entryist Trotskyist” as rebels prepare the ground for a leadership challenge against his close ally Jeremy Corbyn this summer.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/mcdonnell-i-joined-labour-only-as-a-tactic-just-a-vehicle-for-left-ddqz3ws080 -
It would be stupid to pretend otherwise. Similarly, there are people on the other side who genuinely have no time for the concepts of individual countries at all, not even bonny Scotland.Theuniondivvie said:
I think that's the first time that I've seen a Leaver admit that there may have been the teeniest bit of xenophobia fluttering the hearts of *some* of those who voted for Leave. Well played.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.0 -
..to the toilet?williamglenn said:Sanders is running.
0 -
-
Yes. I often used the word "thug" about Watson before his elevation to the deputy leadership (perhaps on here, I don't remember). Now he seems reflective and sensible.Cyclefree said:One politician who has impressed me in recent weeks, much to my surprise, has been Tom Watson.
He used to be a bit of a thug, in Brown days. Perhaps he still is. His behaviour over the child abuse accusations was very poor indeed.
And yet he has made two good speeches in recent weeks: one about Mrs May’s failings as leader, which applied to more people than just her. And his statement on Facebook last night following the departure of the Tiggers (brilliant name BTW @Anazina!) was very thoughtful. It struck me as the speech of a leader, of someone who wants to be leader, someone who will be leader, if the opportunity arises.
One to watch, I think.
I'm not sure whether that's just because everyone shines in comparison to Milne, Burgon and Gardiner, or whether taking up cycling has changed his personality...0 -
Cyclefree
Much obliged!0 -
By the way, to people who have been wondering why the tiggers picked now to make their move, I strongly suspect the election rumours are what prevented them from doing it a little earlier.0
-
Next up, the Farmers' Union is laying into Brexit, or at least the government's handling of it.TOPPING said:
It beggars belief that people can't understand that were we not Brexiting, or were the Brexit we chose a more benign version, then the UK government could have made a play at keeping some, all, part, or a different version of Honda in the UK.MaxPB said:
I think it is brexit. The government hasn't created the conditions for companies to invest in electric vehicle manufacturing in the UK. We've got a huge cloud over our future trading relationships and just as the industry is about to go through huge changes the government aren't even in first gear, they've stalled the car. I put the blame on Liam Fox and the idiots who didn't vote through the PM's deal.Slackbladder said:
yep, this much more about electric cars, than Brexit. The entire automotive industry will be changed in the next few decades.CarlottaVance said:Honda announcement:
https://global.honda/newsroom/news/2019/c190219beng.html
19 February, 2019 - Honda has today announced it will restructure its global manufacturing network. This restructure comes as Honda accelerates its commitment to electrified cars, in response to the unprecedented changes in the global automotive industry. The significant challenges of electrification will see Honda revise its global manufacturing operations, and focus activity in regions where it expects to have high production volumes.
No mention of the 'B' word.....
As it is, the uncertainty, together with our possible Hard, and in any case Chaotic Brexit precludes that.0 -
Nope. Read the statement. Turkey is staying. They're going to find a new role for it once the current model produced there is EOLed.FrancisUrquhart said:
Or Turkey...oh it was...and it’s gone too.CarlottaVance said:
Or if the Honda plant had been in Dublin or Dusseldorf.MarqueeMark said:
Nothing I have read says Honda's decision would have been any different if we had voted to Remain.CarlottaVance said:
“This decision was not informed by Brexit,” said Honda Chief Executive Takahiro Hachigo.williamglenn said:How the Honda decision is being reported in Asia:
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Companies/Honda-to-shut-UK-plant-by-2022-in-another-Brexit-retreat
Honda to shut UK plant by 2022 in another Brexit retreat
The prospect of Brexit, scheduled for March 29, added yet more uncertainty to a business already mired in red ink. While peer automakers are planning more moderate measures such as temporary stoppages in light of Brexit-linked uncertainty, Honda plans to go a step further by shutting down its only production site in Europe.
Other international companies, including Japanese electronics makers Panasonic and Sony, plan to relocate certain British operations to the European mainland.
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-honda-idUKKCN1Q80KF0 -
When I was at boarding school my pal in the next bed had a picture of Snoopy above his bed saying, "I'm going to be sensible tomorrow". I didn't realise at the time that this was a forecast for our country.TOPPING said:
It's not at all complicated. As is not the point that people you voted for decided that they wanted to establish FoM EU-wide. But that's an old battle.DavidL said:
I voted leave so that we could decide how many and who could come to our country, things that we were not able to control in the EU. I have no problem with people who are going to make a contribution coming if we need them. Right now we probably do but that will not always be the case. I want these decisions to be made by people I can vote for and against. It's not that complicated.TOPPING said:
And yet you voted to keep the foreigners out. Foreigners which you acknowledge contribute to economic growth.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.
Now of course you voted Leave because you were sick and tired of the EU inspectors on the 21A bus to Cromarty but your vote was for a package of measures including keeping the foreigners out.
How about the horlicks that is being made of Brexit? Did it never occur to you that some of your fellow travellers wouldn't be so sensible as you are?0 -
to his zimmer.felix said:
..to the toilet?williamglenn said:Sanders is running.
0 -
Business Secretary speaking now is also laying into government's handling of Brexit as unacceptable to business0
-
Just waiting for the Brexiteers who whined incessantly about "Turkey is joining the EU" to join the dots on that one...El_Capitano said:Nope. Read the statement. Turkey is staying. They're going to find a new role for it once the current model produced there is EOLed.
Still waiting...0 -
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But I thought Honda would be moving their EU HQ from Britain, we were warned no business would want to stay here and they'd all be off to Frankfurt and Paris. Hmmm.Scott_P said:
Just waiting for the Brexiteers who whined incessantly about "Turkey is joining the EU" to join the dots on that one...El_Capitano said:Nope. Read the statement. Turkey is staying. They're going to find a new role for it once the current model produced there is EOLed.
Still waiting...0 -
6/4 looks very big: you might be tying your money up for a while. There is even a faint chance that both the top two options will win...
https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/10978308282336870410 -
So blindingly obvious that Leavers strenuously avoid mentioning it?Philip_Thompson said:
Its blindingly obvious isn't it?Theuniondivvie said:
I think that's the first time that I've seen a Leaver admit that there may have been the teeniest bit of xenophobia fluttering the hearts of *some* of those who voted for Leave. Well played.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.
There is also xenophobia in the hearts of *some* of those who voted Remain too.
Can you give some sort of analysis of Remain xenophobia (though don't bother if it's some guff about wanting to keep the flow of nice white Europeans going while keeping out Africans, Asians etc BECAUSE THEY'RE BROWN/YELLOW/BLACK)?
0 -
I think you mean "former alleged Remainer" May.Luckyguy1983 said:
Like Remainer May for example?TOPPING said:
It's not at all complicated. As is not the point that people you voted for decided that they wanted to establish FoM EU-wide. But that's an old battle.DavidL said:
I voted leave so that we could decide how many and who could come to our country, things that we were not able to control in the EU. I have no problem with people who are going to make a contribution coming if we need them. Right now we probably do but that will not always be the case. I want these decisions to be made by people I can vote for and against. It's not that complicated.TOPPING said:
And yet you voted to keep the foreigners out. Foreigners which you acknowledge contribute to economic growth.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.
Now of course you voted Leave because you were sick and tired of the EU inspectors on the 21A bus to Cromarty but your vote was for a package of measures including keeping the foreigners out.
How about the horlicks that is being made of Brexit? Did it never occur to you that some of your fellow travellers wouldn't be so sensible as you are?
"Remainers" don't generally expend their entire political capital trying to push through an end to Freedom of Movement, Customs Union membership and Single Market membership.
Calling the Theresa May of 2019 a "Remainer" is about as accurate as calling the Oswald Mosley of 1959 a "social democrat".0 -
He's leaving anyway but if not the way to do it would be to vote for the other party in the next EP elections.Philip_Thompson said:
It occured to me. I'm content that we can chuck the buggers our if they make a horlicks of it here while I see no way to.chuck Juncker et al out.
Unless he does something seriously bad in which case you might want to write to your MEP to suggest they threaten to fire him partway through the term, as they did with the Santer Commission.0 -
-
RIP Karl Lagerfeld.
The Lady Wifi was sat next to Valentino at the post-BAFTA dinner. He is a similar age to Lagerfeld, and she said he looked more Madame Tussaud than haute couture.0 -
Although car washing by hand produces a higher standard of service than car washing by machine.Sandpit said:
How many companies have bought £250k mechanical car washes recently?MaxPB said:
Taking the place of machines. Businesses are hiring easy to fire people rather than expensive to write off machinery.DavidL said:
Even as someone who tends towards the optimistic on the economy I find these figures bewildering. If output is only rising modestly what the hell are all these people doing? How many fast food delivery cyclists can our economy sustain?TheWhiteRabbit said:Honda aside, today saw the release of another very strong set of jobs numbers, with the economy adding 427,000 full time jobs in the last year, and a significant q-o-q reduction in both unemployment and inactivity.
Pay growth continues to sit at 3.4%, expanding its lead over inflation slightly to 1.3% - although these things take time to feed into people's wallets in a meaningful way.
For a whole number of reasons we need to incentivise capital investment over labour, especially unskilled labour.0 -
The timing of it coming out feels sub-optimal for Labour. If its message is "broad church, serious contenders for power with an ambitious but realistic socialist platform", it's not a great look losing 7 Blairites and welcoming back Degsy on the same day.Cyclefree said:
Corbyn was against expelling Militant Tendency members back in the 1980’s. So it is entirely in keeping with his views that people like Hatton would be let back in.felix said:
That's correct. Interestingly Mcdonnell much more conciliatory today suggesting they're rattled. The Hatton thing however is grotesque and shows the true direction of travel.SouthamObserver said:It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
Of course, if its message is "up the revolution, screw the Tories", then carry on.0 -
Incidentally, a propos yesterday's discussion on lead stories, I see that the lead on the Guardian - that bastion of left-wing fervour - is currently "Karl Lagerfeld / Fashion designer dies aged 85", with "Bernie Sanders / Democrat announces run for presidency" relegated to second place.0
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Having had a to-and-fro with various PB Tories/Unionists (tbf I don't think you were one of them) about whether Scotland was in fact a country, I'm fully aware that there are plenty of folk with no time for the concept of certain individual countries.DavidL said:
It would be stupid to pretend otherwise. Similarly, there are people on the other side who genuinely have no time for the concepts of individual countries at all, not even bonny Scotland.Theuniondivvie said:
I think that's the first time that I've seen a Leaver admit that there may have been the teeniest bit of xenophobia fluttering the hearts of *some* of those who voted for Leave. Well played.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.0 -
0
-
Biden hasn't actually declared yet (and there is a whole raft of minnows who haven't either, but quite probably won't now).FrancisUrquhart said:
Is there anybody in the US who isn’t running?OldKingCole said:Just seen. Bernie Sanders IS having another go.
Sanders running makes Biden even more likely to do so, I think.
And it looks good for Harris, as she already has oxygen, and Biden/Sanders will deprive others.0 -
Eugh. My periodic reminder to be thankful, as a Bitter Remoaner and member of the Out Of Touch Metropolitan Liberal Elite, that I never frequent McDonald's.Scott_P said:0 -
Who would argue that Scotland is not a country?Theuniondivvie said:
Having had a to-and-fro with various PB Tories/Unionists (tbf I don't think you were one of them) about whether Scotland was in fact a country, I'm fully aware that there are plenty of folk with no time for the concept of certain individual countries.DavidL said:
It would be stupid to pretend otherwise. Similarly, there are people on the other side who genuinely have no time for the concepts of individual countries at all, not even bonny Scotland.Theuniondivvie said:
I think that's the first time that I've seen a Leaver admit that there may have been the teeniest bit of xenophobia fluttering the hearts of *some* of those who voted for Leave. Well played.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.0 -
Cameron 'thought he'd be rather good at being PM". May thinks it's her destiny, and she's going to cling on whatever.El_Capitano said:
I think you mean "former alleged Remainer" May.Luckyguy1983 said:
Like Remainer May for example?TOPPING said:
It's not at all complicated. As is not the point that people you voted for decided that they wanted to establish FoM EU-wide. But that's an old battle.DavidL said:
I voted leave so that we could decide how many and who could come to our country, things that we were not able to control in the EU. I have no problem with people who are going to make a contribution coming if we need them. Right now we probably do but that will not always be the case. I want these decisions to be made by people I can vote for and against. It's not that complicated.TOPPING said:
And yet you voted to keep the foreigners out. Foreigners which you acknowledge contribute to economic growth.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.
Now of course you voted Leave because you were sick and tired of the EU inspectors on the 21A bus to Cromarty but your vote was for a package of measures including keeping the foreigners out.
How about the horlicks that is being made of Brexit? Did it never occur to you that some of your fellow travellers wouldn't be so sensible as you are?
"Remainers" don't generally expend their entire political capital trying to push through an end to Freedom of Movement, Customs Union membership and Single Market membership.
Calling the Theresa May of 2019 a "Remainer" is about as accurate as calling the Oswald Mosley of 1959 a "social democrat".0 -
More of a KFC man?OnlyLivingBoy said:
Eugh. My periodic reminder to be thankful, as a Bitter Remoaner and member of the Out Of Touch Metropolitan Liberal Elite, that I never frequent McDonald's.Scott_P said:0 -
Are the Dems going to re-run the 2016 primary?felix said:
..to the toilet?williamglenn said:Sanders is running.
It looks like it, with Harris taking Clinton's place.0 -
Jumping before they are pushed?Scott_P said:0 -
No. Biden will more than likely be in the mix.nunuone said:
Are the Dems going to re-run the 2016 primary?felix said:
..to the toilet?williamglenn said:Sanders is running.
It looks like it, with Harris taking Clinton's place.0 -
Indeed, if that were on Betfair I would be all over the 6/4 and looking forward to locking in a very healthy profit just a few months down the lineTissue_Price said:6/4 looks very big: you might be tying your money up for a while. There is even a faint chance that both the top two options will win...
https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/10978308282336870410 -
A cynic might say that if all the Blairites and Jews leave Labour, so much the better for Corbyn and his followers. The fewer of them there are the less he has to worry about them. After all, if there are no Jewish labour MPs left, then the problem of them being harrassed by anti-Semites goes away, doesn’t it. I don’t think that Corbyn and his coterie are really very disappointed at all at losing these MPs. And would probably not be disappointed to lose more like them.Harris_Tweed said:
The timing of it coming out feels sub-optimal for Labour. If its message is "broad church, serious contenders for power with an ambitious but realistic socialist platform", it's not a great look losing 7 Blairites and welcoming back Degsy on the same day.Cyclefree said:
Corbyn was against expelling Militant Tendency members back in the 1980’s. So it is entirely in keeping with his views that people like Hatton would be let back in.felix said:
That's correct. Interestingly Mcdonnell much more conciliatory today suggesting they're rattled. The Hatton thing however is grotesque and shows the true direction of travel.SouthamObserver said:It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
Of course, if its message is "up the revolution, screw the Tories", then carry on.
The most shocking fact I learnt yesterday is that Corbyn has not spoken to Luciana Berger since 2017. That is a shocking failure of leadership on every level.0 -
Lol like finding it in the street. Only allowed £20.Tissue_Price said:6/4 looks very big: you might be tying your money up for a while. There is even a faint chance that both the top two options will win...
https://twitter.com/LadPolitics/status/10978308282336870410 -
Including when death threats were sent to Labour about her. Neither he or anybody in his office bothered to contacted her to say we have a nutter threatening to kill you, I think we need to have a chat about how to deal with this.Cyclefree said:
A cynic might say that if all the Blairites and Jews leave Labour, so much the better for Corbyn and his followers. The fewer of them there are the less he has to worry about them. After all, if there are no Jewish labour MPs left, then the problem of them being harrassed by anti-Semites goes away, doesn’t it. I don’t think that Corbyn and his coterie are really very disappointed at all at losing these MPs. And would probably not be disappointed to lose more like them.Harris_Tweed said:
The timing of it coming out feels sub-optimal for Labour. If its message is "broad church, serious contenders for power with an ambitious but realistic socialist platform", it's not a great look losing 7 Blairites and welcoming back Degsy on the same day.Cyclefree said:
Corbyn was against expelling Militant Tendency members back in the 1980’s. So it is entirely in keeping with his views that people like Hatton would be let back in.felix said:
That's correct. Interestingly Mcdonnell much more conciliatory today suggesting they're rattled. The Hatton thing however is grotesque and shows the true direction of travel.SouthamObserver said:It's pretty simple: if Labour was the broad church it used to be fools like Richard Burgon and Barry Gardiner would not be on the front bench and the likes of Cooper, Benn, Nandy and Lammy would be in the shadow cabinet.
Of course, if its message is "up the revolution, screw the Tories", then carry on.
The most shocking fact I learnt yesterday is that Corbyn has not spoken to Luciana Berger since 2017. That is a shocking failure of leadership on every level.0 -
Well yes during the referendum a number of Remainers were making the argument that FoM was good because it was Europeans moving and the objectionable migration was that from Africa and the Middle East etcTheuniondivvie said:
So blindingly obvious that Leavers strenuously avoid mentioning it?Philip_Thompson said:
Its blindingly obvious isn't it?Theuniondivvie said:
I think that's the first time that I've seen a Leaver admit that there may have been the teeniest bit of xenophobia fluttering the hearts of *some* of those who voted for Leave. Well played.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.
There is also xenophobia in the hearts of *some* of those who voted Remain too.
Can you give some sort of analysis of Remain xenophobia (though don't bother if it's some guff about wanting to keep the flow of nice white Europeans going while keeping out Africans, Asians etc BECAUSE THEY'RE BROWN/YELLOW/BLACK)?0 -
"Country" is not a very useful term due to its ambiguity; "state" even worse.Theuniondivvie said:
Having had a to-and-fro with various PB Tories/Unionists (tbf I don't think you were one of them) about whether Scotland was in fact a country, I'm fully aware that there are plenty of folk with no time for the concept of certain individual countries.DavidL said:
It would be stupid to pretend otherwise. Similarly, there are people on the other side who genuinely have no time for the concepts of individual countries at all, not even bonny Scotland.Theuniondivvie said:
I think that's the first time that I've seen a Leaver admit that there may have been the teeniest bit of xenophobia fluttering the hearts of *some* of those who voted for Leave. Well played.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.0 -
Ha ha, no. Prefer a local greasy spoon with a good hygiene rating.FrancisUrquhart said:
More of a KFC man?OnlyLivingBoy said:
Eugh. My periodic reminder to be thankful, as a Bitter Remoaner and member of the Out Of Touch Metropolitan Liberal Elite, that I never frequent McDonald's.Scott_P said:0 -
Isn't such a thing a bit of an oxymoron?OnlyLivingBoy said:
Ha ha, no. Prefer a local greasy spoon with a good hygiene rating.FrancisUrquhart said:
More of a KFC man?OnlyLivingBoy said:
Eugh. My periodic reminder to be thankful, as a Bitter Remoaner and member of the Out Of Touch Metropolitan Liberal Elite, that I never frequent McDonald's.Scott_P said:0 -
Nobody who has spent more than ten minutes in Scotland could deny it is a country.david_herdson said:
"Country" is not a very useful term due to its ambiguity; "state" even worse.Theuniondivvie said:
Having had a to-and-fro with various PB Tories/Unionists (tbf I don't think you were one of them) about whether Scotland was in fact a country, I'm fully aware that there are plenty of folk with no time for the concept of certain individual countries.DavidL said:
It would be stupid to pretend otherwise. Similarly, there are people on the other side who genuinely have no time for the concepts of individual countries at all, not even bonny Scotland.Theuniondivvie said:
I think that's the first time that I've seen a Leaver admit that there may have been the teeniest bit of xenophobia fluttering the hearts of *some* of those who voted for Leave. Well played.DavidL said:
Why? We are not all the raving xenophobes of your imagination you know.TOPPING said:
Very funny to hear this from a Leaver.DavidL said:
About time. That has been a major drag on their growth for decades.edmundintokyo said:
The other aspect to Japanese companies moving production back to Japan is that Japanese immigration policy is liberalizing very fast.notme2 said:We truly have a stunning jobs miracle. The fact that it is largely unremarked on is maybe a sign of the times.
We are now ironically firmly in the arena of harming economic growth by restricting migration.0 -
Deep thought: If TIG gets a few Tories as well as more lab defectors they potentially remove the Con-DUP majority, and create a possible Con-Tig majority. They've already burned their bridges with Labour and bringing down the government would cause an election that loses them their seats, what have they got to lose?0
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Top trolling.edmundintokyo said:Deep thought: If TIG gets a few Tories as well as more lab defectors they potentially remove the Con-DUP majority, and create a possible Con-Tig majority. They've already burned their bridges with Labour and bringing down the government would cause an election that loses them their seats, what have they got to lose?
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They’re adding Anna Soubry to Sarah Wollaston and Heidi Allen. Unlike the others, who’d be happy in the Lib Dems and could well defect, Anna is a standard Conservative on any subject other than Brexit - she’s Ken Clarke’s younger sister in that respect.felix said:0 -
That would mean having to vote for May's deal, surely?edmundintokyo said:Deep thought: If TIG gets a few Tories as well as more lab defectors they potentially remove the Con-DUP majority, and create a possible Con-Tig majority. They've already burned their bridges with Labour and bringing down the government would cause an election that loses them their seats, what have they got to lose?
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I am red on Sanders. This is annoying.Nigelb said:
Biden hasn't actually declared yet (and there is a whole raft of minnows who haven't either, but quite probably won't now).FrancisUrquhart said:
Is there anybody in the US who isn’t running?OldKingCole said:Just seen. Bernie Sanders IS having another go.
Sanders running makes Biden even more likely to do so, I think.
And it looks good for Harris, as she already has oxygen, and Biden/Sanders will deprive others.0 -
CCHQ has dismissed a deluge of complaints that Christopher Chope brought the Tory party into disrepute by blocking the FGM and upskirting bills. Tories say he “was carrying out his duties and exercising his judgment”0
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Subject to a referendum.Stereotomy said:
That would mean having to vote for May's deal, surely?edmundintokyo said:Deep thought: If TIG gets a few Tories as well as more lab defectors they potentially remove the Con-DUP majority, and create a possible Con-Tig majority. They've already burned their bridges with Labour and bringing down the government would cause an election that loses them their seats, what have they got to lose?
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