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Clearly they are associated with a larger group. Far too many Leavers are far too willing to cry "treason" and then seek to dissociate themselves from those who take them at their word.DonTsInferno_ said:
Good to hear. The men who murdered Jo Cox & drove into people outside the Finsbury Park Mosque are individuals responsible only to themselves, and shame on anyone who tries to associate them with any larger group.SouthamObserver said:
Holding a community responsible for the acts of individuals is as perverse as holding a community responsible for the acts of a foreign government. I am sorry you did not understand what I was saying.Philip_Thompson said:
No. If he was doing with Muslims attacks based on the actions of the Saudi government or some other Muslim government that would be comparable to the actions of.the Israeli government.SouthamObserver said:
Marvellous. You have done with Moslems and terror attacks precisely what the far left does with the actions of the Israeli government and Jews.MarqueeMark said:
Terror attacks undertaken in the name of their religion by British Muslims on the wider British public of the UK are hardly going to engender a positive attitude towards people of that religion. Too right there is a lasting negative impact. Who are these incredulous people? It's like being surprised at a finding that "The Blitz has had a lasting negative impact on attiudes towards Nazis".SouthamObserver said:
It is a shit blatantly party-political point by Hope Not Hate. Otherwise we would have polling on the % impact of other parties' voters. What % of Labour voters had a lasting negative impact, eh?
They clearly have an agenda, to equate Tory = anti-Islam to mitigate Labour = anti-semitic. "Oh well, all parties have their problems." Bullshit in the general, bullshit in the specifics.
Instead he was speaking about the actions of British Muslims in Britain. The fact you see no distinction between Brits in Britain and Israel of the religion is swapped is very antisemitic.
The Jewish equivalent of British Muslims in Britain is British Jews in Britain. Not Israel.0 -
One of Jezzas henchpeople plant the stool?Scott_P said:0 -
A new Party formed by London based MPs.
Dedicated to overturning the biggest democratic mandate in history. Pro excessive immigration. Pro identify politics.
Looking from outside the bubble it looks like a bunch of extremists.
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Yeah, that would be really sensibleGIN1138 said:rottenborough said:I may die laughing today...
https://twitter.com/katyballs/status/1097418306301116421
Don't see why Jezza should be "rattled" - He can go full on Brexiteer now!
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Seven Labour MPs and a Tory?Scott_P said:0 -
Yes, I would say it’s wrong.Chris said:
Would you say it was wrong?tlg86 said:
I wouldn’t say it’s okay, but I think the irrationality is more understandable. It doesn’t help that most of the people who are radicalised come from a Muslim background.Chris said:
So it's OK to be prejudiced against British Muslims in general because of the actions of Muslim terrorists, provided the terrorists are British?Philip_Thompson said:
No. If he was doing with Muslims attacks based on the actions of the Saudi government or some other Muslim government that would be comparable to the actions of.the Israeli government.SouthamObserver said:
Marvellous. You have done with Moslems and terror attacks precisely what the far left does with the actions of the Israeli government and Jews.MarqueeMark said:
Terror attacks undertaken in the name of their religion by British Muslims on the wider British public of the UK are hardly going to engender a positive attitude towards people of that religion. Too right there is a lasting negative impact. Who are these incredulous people? It's like being surprised at a finding that "The Blitz has had a lasting negative impact on attiudes towards Nazis".SouthamObserver said:
It is a shit blatantly party-political point by Hope Not Hate. Otherwise we would have polling on the % impact of other parties' voters. What % of Labour voters had a lasting negative impact, eh?
They clearly have an agenda, to equate Tory = anti-Islam to mitigate Labour = anti-semitic. "Oh well, all parties have their problems." Bullshit in the general, bullshit in the specifics.
Instead he was speaking about the actions of British Muslims in Britain. The fact you see no distinction between Brits in Britain and Israel of the religion is swapped is very antisemitic.
The Jewish equivalent of British Muslims in Britain is British Jews in Britain. Not Israel.
The mind boggles.0 -
So devout Muslims can disassociate themselves from violence in the name of Islam, but people who voted to leave the EU have to share the blame for individual acts of Terrorism from others who voted Leave?AlastairMeeks said:
Clearly they are associated with a larger group. Far too many Leavers are far too willing to cry "treason" and then seek to dissociate themselves from those who take them at their word.DonTsInferno_ said:
Good to hear. The men who murdered Jo Cox & drove into people outside the Finsbury Park Mosque are individuals responsible only to themselves, and shame on anyone who tries to associate them with any larger group.SouthamObserver said:
Holding a community responsible for the acts of individuals is as perverse as holding a community responsible for the acts of a foreign government. I am sorry you did not understand what I was saying.Philip_Thompson said:
No. If he was doing with Muslims attacks based on the actions of the Saudi government or some other Muslim government that would be comparable to the actions of.the Israeli government.SouthamObserver said:
Marvellous. You have done with Moslems and terror attacks precisely what the far left does with the actions of the Israeli government and Jews.MarqueeMark said:
Terror attacks undertaken in the name of their religion by British Muslims on the wider British public of the UK are hardly going to engender a positive attitude towards people of that religion. Too right there is a lasting negative impact. Who are these incredulous people? It's like being surprised at a finding that "The Blitz has had a lasting negative impact on attiudes towards Nazis".SouthamObserver said:
It is a shit blatantly party-political point by Hope Not Hate. Otherwise we would have polling on the % impact of other parties' voters. What % of Labour voters had a lasting negative impact, eh?
They clearly have an agenda, to equate Tory = anti-Islam to mitigate Labour = anti-semitic. "Oh well, all parties have their problems." Bullshit in the general, bullshit in the specifics.
Instead he was speaking about the actions of British Muslims in Britain. The fact you see no distinction between Brits in Britain and Israel of the religion is swapped is very antisemitic.
The Jewish equivalent of British Muslims in Britain is British Jews in Britain. Not Israel.0 -
60%+ Remain middle class metropolitan and university seats - Brighton Pavilion, Bristol W, Leeds NW, Cambridge, Hornsey, Hampstead, Norwich S.MarqueeMark said:
So, the Clever Collective on here - where are those seats?IanB2 said:
Yep, as I said downthread, they will have researched the best places to contest.AndyJS said:A tweet by the former MP who held the Carmarthen seat by 3 votes in Feb 1974:
https://twitter.com/Gwynoro/status/1097419380722450432
Unless they promise to get rid of student fees and debts you can discard the university seats.
A problem is that not only would they be competing against Labour it would also be areas where the LibDems and/or Greens are active.0 -
I would imagine Sheffield Hallam would be a target seat. I read it has more PHD's as constituents than any other. This obviously explains the election of Mr O'Mara.0
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They should launch some big polices each week. A Green New Deal. Constitutional reform. Industrial strategy. Everything from the IPPR report.Scott_P said:
Get Labour activists looking at their own party and wondering where the intellect is.0 -
A lot of Leavers throw around words like "treason", "betrayal", "enemies of the people" and so on as freely as confetti. Then try to claim that those who treat those words literally have nothing to do with them.DonTsInferno_ said:
So devout Muslims can disassociate themselves from violence in the name of Islam, but people who voted to leave the EU have to share the blame for individual acts of Terrorism from others who voted Leave?0 -
It is the right move if their main aim is to pressure Labour over Brexit. If they want to be credible party on their own right they should leave now, though.Sandpit said:.
Surely they’re not that stupid? (As deliciously hilarious as that would be for everyone else) 🤣Gallowgate said:0 -
A lot of Muslims would prefer it if the UK were an Islamic Republic rather than a Western Democracy, but they’re not responsible for the terrorism of the extremists.AlastairMeeks said:
A lot of Leavers throw around words like "treason", "betrayal", "enemies of the people" and so on as freely as confetti. Then try to claim that those who treat those words literally have nothing to do with them.DonTsInferno_ said:
So devout Muslims can disassociate themselves from violence in the name of Islam, but people who voted to leave the EU have to share the blame for individual acts of Terrorism from others who voted Leave?0 -
Tbh having the Blitz as the defining factor of one's attitude to Nazis would suggest an incredibly solipsistic, parochial approach to history.MarqueeMark said:
Terror attacks undertaken in the name of their religion by British Muslims on the wider British public of the UK are hardly going to engender a positive attitude towards people of that religion. Too right there is a lasting negative impact. Who are these incredulous people? It's like being surprised at a finding that "The Blitz has had a lasting negative impact on attiudes towards Nazis".SouthamObserver said:
It is a shit blatantly party-political point by Hope Not Hate. Otherwise we would have polling on the % impact of other parties' voters. What % of Labour voters had a lasting negative impact, eh?
They clearly have an agenda, to equate Tory = anti-Islam to mitigate Labour = anti-semitic. "Oh well, all parties have their problems." Bullshit in the general, bullshit in the specifics.
I guess that's where we are in Brexit Britain.0 -
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This Labour split story is terrific entertainment. Far better than the dragging out of Brexit.
Throw in a bye election and this post EU world is looking like a lot of fun already.
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Labour are redGallowgate said:https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1097428931903410176?s=21
Blue and Red aye...
Tories are blue
They voted to Leave
We’ll stay in the EU
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Mr. Chris, I thought that was implicit in what I wrote.
Being prejudiced against someone because they're Muslim is wrong. Discriminating against someone because of their religion is wrong.
I'm surprised you failed to see that in my previous post.0 -
Its also one of the top LibDem target seats.ralphmalph said:I would imagine Sheffield Hallam would be a target seat. I read it has more PHD's as constituents than any other. This obviously explains the election of Mr O'Mara.
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However Chukka has form for bottling it...0
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But it was most Londoners' direct experience of the Nazis. Most of them didn't live next to door one. Didn't go to Nuremburg for the rallies. Just heard bad things about them on the radio from that Mr. Churchill.Theuniondivvie said:
Tbh having the Blitz as the defining factor of one's attitude to Nazis would suggest an incredibly solipsistic, parochial approach to history.MarqueeMark said:
Terror attacks undertaken in the name of their religion by British Muslims on the wider British public of the UK are hardly going to engender a positive attitude towards people of that religion. Too right there is a lasting negative impact. Who are these incredulous people? It's like being surprised at a finding that "The Blitz has had a lasting negative impact on attiudes towards Nazis".SouthamObserver said:
It is a shit blatantly party-political point by Hope Not Hate. Otherwise we would have polling on the % impact of other parties' voters. What % of Labour voters had a lasting negative impact, eh?
They clearly have an agenda, to equate Tory = anti-Islam to mitigate Labour = anti-semitic. "Oh well, all parties have their problems." Bullshit in the general, bullshit in the specifics.
I guess that's where we are in Brexit Britain.
Perhaps we should blame Winston for their bad rep?0 -
If they aren't offering free owls, I'm not voting for them.
[As an aside, I might consider voting for a new party].0 -
The reason he bottled then is the reason he won't now. The Party hung him out to dryTGOHF said:However Chukka has form for bottling it...
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I looked quite hard, and it wasn't there.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Chris, I thought that was implicit in what I wrote.
Being prejudiced against someone because they're Muslim is wrong. Discriminating against someone because of their religion is wrong.
I'm surprised you failed to see that in my previous post.0 -
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Thank you.tlg86 said:
Yes, I would say it’s wrong.Chris said:
Would you say it was wrong?tlg86 said:
I wouldn’t say it’s okay, but I think the irrationality is more understandable. It doesn’t help that most of the people who are radicalised come from a Muslim background.Chris said:
So it's OK to be prejudiced against British Muslims in general because of the actions of Muslim terrorists, provided the terrorists are British?Philip_Thompson said:
No. If he was doing with Muslims attacks based on the actions of the Saudi government or some other Muslim government that would be comparable to the actions of.the Israeli government.SouthamObserver said:
Marvellous. You have done with Moslems and terror attacks precisely what the far left does with the actions of the Israeli government and Jews.MarqueeMark said:
Terror attacks undertaken in the name of their religion by British Muslims on the wider British public of the UK are hardly going to engender a positive attitude towards people of that religion. Too right there is a lasting negative impact. Who are these incredulous people? It's like being surprised at a finding that "The Blitz has had a lasting negative impact on attiudes towards Nazis".SouthamObserver said:
It is a shit blatantly party-political point by Hope Not Hate. Otherwise we would have polling on the % impact of other parties' voters. What % of Labour voters had a lasting negative impact, eh?
They clearly have an agenda, to equate Tory = anti-Islam to mitigate Labour = anti-semitic. "Oh well, all parties have their problems." Bullshit in the general, bullshit in the specifics.
Instead he was speaking about the actions of British Muslims in Britain. The fact you see no distinction between Brits in Britain and Israel of the religion is swapped is very antisemitic.
The Jewish equivalent of British Muslims in Britain is British Jews in Britain. Not Israel.
The mind boggles.0 -
Maybe Val Doonican will be singing their (no doubt rousing) theme song.Scott_P said:0 -
Labour are redDonTsInferno_ said:
Labour are redGallowgate said:https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1097428931903410176?s=21
Blue and Red aye...
Tories are blue
They voted to Leave
We’ll stay in the EU
Tories are blue
People like us
Should not be told what to do
By people like you0 -
Maybe it will be the 'For the Many' party.Scott_P said:0 -
If they've got as many as seven Labour, I think there are probably a few Tories they could pick off.0
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On that basis the Japanese must absolutely loath American capitalist might, except that it's almost exactly the reverse. Though if you're saying the average Tokyo wrinkly is more open minded than the average London one...MarqueeMark said:
But it was most Londoners' direct experience of the Nazis. Most of them didn't live next to door one. Didn't go to Nuremburg for the rallies. Just heard bad things about them on the radio from that Mr. Churchill.Theuniondivvie said:
Tbh having the Blitz as the defining factor of one's attitude to Nazis would suggest an incredibly solipsistic, parochial approach to history.MarqueeMark said:
Terror attacks undertaken in the name of their religion by British Muslims on the wider British public of the UK are hardly going to engender a positive attitude towards people of that religion. Too right there is a lasting negative impact. Who are these incredulous people? It's like being surprised at a finding that "The Blitz has had a lasting negative impact on attiudes towards Nazis".SouthamObserver said:
It is a shit blatantly party-political point by Hope Not Hate. Otherwise we would have polling on the % impact of other parties' voters. What % of Labour voters had a lasting negative impact, eh?
They clearly have an agenda, to equate Tory = anti-Islam to mitigate Labour = anti-semitic. "Oh well, all parties have their problems." Bullshit in the general, bullshit in the specifics.
I guess that's where we are in Brexit Britain.
Perhaps we should blame Winston for their bad rep?0 -
Will this be a new party? Or a group saying they will sit as Independent Labour until the party comes to its senses?0
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Maybe they'll come on to Kid Creole's "Stool Pigeon".Theuniondivvie said:
Dancing onstage. That would be the way to introduce a new party.
I'm cringing already......0 -
One assumes it has the backing of Blair and his millions. Maybe they will have a live link to NY and get David Millband involved..... Oh how I love nostalgia and going back to the future.JonathanD said:0 -
If there is a deal they'd have to give the LDs a free run in a seat like that. But there are enough others where the LDs no longer have the vote or organisation to accommodate the seven, if that's how many there are.another_richard said:
Its also one of the top LibDem target seats.ralphmalph said:I would imagine Sheffield Hallam would be a target seat. I read it has more PHD's as constituents than any other. This obviously explains the election of Mr O'Mara.
Of course, there may be some HoL members earmarked for those chairs.0 -
They've clearly been looking at the likes of En Marche and Forza ItaliaScott_P said:0 -
Looks like the hashtag starts #OScott_P said:0 -
If it's good enough for T May...MarqueeMark said:
Maybe they'll come on to Kid Creole's "Stool Pigeon".Theuniondivvie said:
Dancing onstage. That would be the way to introduce a new party.
I'm cringing already......0 -
I trust Vicky D will carry it live?0
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One hopes Christopher Brocklebank-Fowler joins the new party. He's joined all the others.0
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Onward? Onward and Upwards?DonTsInferno_ said:
Looks like the hashtag starts #OScott_P said:0 -
I am hearing new name is Hufflepuff0
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In the twitter feed for the new party someone has their priorities right
https://twitter.com/bintofsparkles/status/10974301143657840640 -
Bowel Movement?Scott_P said:0 -
'Jezza, you're not my daddy' surely.MarqueeMark said:
Maybe they'll come on to Kid Creole's "Stool Pigeon".Theuniondivvie said:
Dancing onstage. That would be the way to introduce a new party.
I'm cringing already......
(that's enough Kid Creole bollox - ed)0 -
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#streathamdeclaration0
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The Independance Group is is.....0
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So are they going to be resigning their seats and standing in by-elections ?Scott_P said:
And didn't those two defections take place AFTER UKIP had won the 2014 Euro elections ?0 -
Not if they are looking for new seats they wont. Maybe one test byelection in the best prospect?another_richard said:
So are they going to be resigning their seats and standing in by-elections ?Scott_P said:
And didn't those two defections take place AFTER UKIP had won the 2014 Euro elections ?0 -
I don't think it is strictly necessary to separate symptom and cause, Labour defections could either change the landscape per se, or are symptoms of the wider rot within Labour which could.another_richard said:
So are they going to be resigning their seats and standing in by-elections ?Scott_P said:
And didn't those two defections take place AFTER UKIP had won the 2014 Euro elections ?0 -
I see the slogan now:Scott_P said:
The Independent Group, the party for people who read The Independent.0 -
At times like this I believe its essential to bring in the following planGallowgate said:
Dilbert and other variations are available.0 -
The Independence Group? The Independence Party?
People will be thinking more along the lines of Tommy Robinson than Chuka Ummunnunana???0 -
not a viable long term proposition but a good blank canvasSlackbladder said:The Independance Group is is.....
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Is it limited to the UK?Scott_P said:0 -
Good news. I more-or-less agree with Long-Bailey that any Labour governmt is better than the alternative which is why I hope the break away happens. Labour doesn't stand a hope in hell of winning an election with Corbyn in charge and there's no hope of him leaving so the best hope is for the party to split.0
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From Guido: Corbynistas have named Angela Smith, Ian Austin and Mike Gapes as three other likely quitters, although Ian Austin has reportedly since denied that he is quitting the Labour Party. Other potential Labour exiteers include Luciana Berger, Owen Smith, Peter Kyle, Stephen Kinnock and Liz Kendall.0
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It will be interesting if the 6 labour mps already without the whip join with the new party0
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Go Forward would be a daft name. The Democrats (suggested by someone here, forgot who, sorry) would be better.
The Independent Group is interesting but wouldn't it conflict with the rule on similarity, given how many independent candidates there are?0 -
Chukka it is thenDonTsInferno_ said:0 -
The worry is that its too focused on political process rather than on actual policies that the general public may be interested it.IanB2 said:
not a viable long term proposition but a good blank canvasSlackbladder said:The Independance Group is is.....
The #changepolitics hash tag in particular suggests it just wants to promote a 'kinder gentler politics' which is something voters will say they support in principal but when it comes to it, won't attract many votes.0 -
I was suggesting Democrats yesterday.Morris_Dancer said:Go Forward would be a daft name. The Democrats (suggested by someone here, forgot who, sorry) would be better.
The Independent Group is interesting but wouldn't it conflict with the rule on similarity, given how many independent candidates there are?
But probably not the first.0 -
10:000
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It's only on line, which is probably significant.another_richard said:
I see the slogan now:Scott_P said:
The Independent Group, the party for people who read The Independent.0 -
For the Moneyed and the EU?!DonTsInferno_ said:
Who is funding them?0 -
Live on BBC News "as soon as it happens"0
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Owen Jones is laying into them already0
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I'm quite excited by this new party / split story.
Chris Leslie and Chuka are both top blokes.
Could be fun.0 -
About as Earth-shattering a name as the Bruges Group.....another_richard said:
I see the slogan now:Scott_P said:
The Independent Group, the party for people who read The Independent.0 -
Mr. Borough, ah, yes, think it was you. And a better name is hard to think of. Except the Owl Party, of course. Or the Patrick Party, but we've already earmarked that one.0
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#OhJeremyCorbyn ?DonTsInferno_ said:
Looks like the hashtag starts #O0 -
Room doesn't look inspiring0
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This will just reinforce the attacks on remaining moderates. So more will go later.IanB2 said:Owen Jones is laying into them already
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They are, are you?MarqueeMark said:
About as Earth-shattering a name as the Bruges Group.....another_richard said:
I see the slogan now:Scott_P said:
The Independent Group, the party for people who read The Independent.0 -
Meanwhile in other news: In European capitals there is now mounting alarm that Theresa May has set Britain on course for a diplomatic disaster, by fundamentally misjudging how far EU leaders are prepared to bend at the last minute in their summit just a week before Britain’s EU departure date.0
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It's a piddly little room - not one that has the grandeur of changing the face of British politics about it.0
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Mr. Anazina, whilst I don't quite share that view, I'd take PM Leslie or Umunna over Corbyn every time.0
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Isn't it one of those presentation rules that if there's not a huge number of you, you don't want to appear in a cavernous empty surrounding.TOPPING said:It's a piddly little room - not one that has the grandeur of changing the face of British politics about it.
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949 hours to Brexit-hour seems to be a magical combination of far too late and far too early to split to create a new party.0
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It would be ironic if, as has been floated, Theresa May were to call a snap election.0
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The Patrick Party???Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Borough, ah, yes, think it was you. And a better name is hard to think of. Except the Owl Party, of course. Or the Patrick Party, but we've already earmarked that one.
Nicknamed Paddy Power, no doubt.
Which would be their most adventurous advertising campaign yet!0 -
AbsolutelyMorris_Dancer said:Mr. Anazina, whilst I don't quite share that view, I'd take PM Leslie or Umunna over Corbyn every time.
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This discussion has been closed.