I think it's great positioning. No fancy names, just designed to mop up those of independent mind of the centre-right, centre and centre-left. I hope some Tories will join. I can see the group welcoming Anna S, Heidi Allen and Sarah Wollaston, among others.
OK well the main question is simple: is this a mini-opposition breakaway Labour group working to overthrow the hated Tories, or is it a come all ye cross-party, centrist grouping.
Website seems to suggest the latter; the speeches the former.
Doing it as an loose group of independents rather than a new party is quite smart as it can become a repository for MPs from any side who think the current parties are broken.
Dan Hodges needs to get out more. This evening, DecrepitPolls will run an impromptu focus group in the fish and chip shop to see if this launch has any traction in a constituency of one of these MPs.
Its a holding operation waiting to see how things turn out.
They've probably chosen something neutral enough that anti-Brexit Tories will feel comfortable to join. Right now something like 'Old New Labour' or 'Blair's Barmy Army' would be more apt.
Its a holding operation waiting to see how things turn out.
You can see how painful the decision is to each of these mps and they are very courageous. I wish them well and hope this grows into something really promising
It is astonishing in the unremitting attack on Corbyn and those around him. It is not just the EU but the wider anti-semitism, the anti west attitude and bullying
The question for all remaining labour mps is are they prepared to carry on endorsing Corbyn or are they willing to join the independent group
Indeed so. I think many more might join. These breakaway MPs deserve medals. Splitting in the Commons was always the answer – moral and technical – to the Corbynite problem.
There are a very large number of Labour MPs who said they had no confidence in Corbyn in 2016. Do they all hide behind the 2017GE or will more of them leave Corbyn's party?
The Independent Group need more MPs. Seven isn't enough. They could do with overhauling the SNP (35) to become the third party. Perhaps if they have some good polling more will follow.
Its a holding operation waiting to see how things turn out.
They've probably chosen something neutral enough that anti-Brexit Tories will feel comfortable to join. Right now something like 'Old New Labour' or 'Blair's Barmy Army' would be more apt.
It is astonishing in the unremitting attack on Corbyn and those around him. It is not just the EU but the wider anti-semitism, the anti west attitude and bullying
The question for all remaining labour mps is are they prepared to carry on endorsing Corbyn or are they willing to join the independent group
Indeed so. I think many more might join. These breakaway MPs deserve medals. Splitting in the Commons was always the answer – moral and technical – to the Corbynite problem.
Even as a conservative these mps have made me so very proud of them. Let us hope this does succeed and enable those of us who reject the hard brexiteers and the hard left to find hope for our politics and country
And thanks to this site I've been made aware of one called Newsthump, when I found the following: 'Changes to BST mean clocks will go back by 70 years at the end of March'
Its a holding operation waiting to see how things turn out.
They've probably chosen something neutral enough that anti-Brexit Tories will feel comfortable to join. Right now something like 'Old New Labour' or 'Blair's Barmy Army' would be more apt.
If they were really cunning they will have some more ready to leave in the coming days, where they can claim we were inspired by them, corbyn outriders disgust me in their reaction to this news..and a few tories who will claim may / brexit / etc.
Unalloyed good news. It'll be bees around a honeypot....
'Life's messy. Clean it up'
Chuka said nothing memorable
Berger is head and shoulders above the rest of these very small beasts
She also has a link to Labour royalty - given her family connection to Manny Shinwell - who also resigned from Labour in protest at the 1980s extremism
Interesting there's no new party. What'll they do come election time?
It's an unsustainable position. They cannot now return to Labour: the bridges have been burned by this step. They have to either join another party or launch their own. They should have done it today. They've screwed up their best chance.
There are a variety of bets to consider today, but one bet stands out to me: lay Jeremy Corbyn for next Prime Minister. He may or may not get there in the end but in this Parliament his task has just got 7 MPs harder, with the distinct prospect of more to follow. Since Theresa May has already said that she is stepping down before the next election, he should not now be anything like as short as 6.8 last matched.
If they were really cunning they will have some more ready to leave in the coming days, where they can claim we were inspired by them, corbyn outriders disgust me in their reaction to this news..and a few tories who will claim may / brexit / etc.
Frank Field and John Woodcock surely
I don't think they'd want Hopkins or Ivan Lewis but not sure they could say no.
The pitch to Tories ("we will never let in a Conservative government") is interesting but possible
Very centrist manifesto on the website (compared to their pretty left-wing (as you would expect) statements today):
Britain works best as a diverse, mixed social market economy, in which well-regulated private enterprise can reward aspiration and drive economic progress and where government has the responsibility to ensure the sound stewardship of taxpayer’s money and a stable, fair and balanced economy. A strong economy means we can invest in our public services. We believe the collective provision of public services and the NHS can be delivered through government action, improving health and educational life chances, protecting the public, safeguarding the vulnerable, ensuring dignity at every stage of life and placing individuals at the heart of decision-making. The people of this country have the ability to create fairer, more prosperous communities for present and future generations. We believe that this creativity is best realised in a society which fosters individual freedom and supports all families. The barriers of poverty, prejudice and discrimination facing individuals should be removed and advancement occur on the basis of merit, with inequalities reduced through the extension of opportunity, giving individuals the skills and means to open new doors and fulfil their ambitions. Individuals are capable of taking responsibility if opportunities are offered to them, everybody can and should make a contribution to society and that contribution should be recognised. Paid work should be secure and pay should be fair. Our free media, the rule of law, and our open, tolerant and respectful democratic society should be cherished and renewed. We believe that our parliamentary democracy in which our elected representatives deliberate, decide and provide leadership, held accountable by their whole electorate is the best system of representing the views of the British people. In order to face the challenges and opportunities presented by globalisation, migration and technological advances, we believe the multilateral, international rules-based order must be strengthened and reformed. We believe in maintaining strong alliances with our closest European and international allies on trade, regulation, defence, security and counter-terrorism As part of the global community we have a responsibility to future generations to protect our environment, safeguard the planet, plan development sustainably and to act on the urgency of climate change. Power should be devolved to the most appropriate level, trusting and involving local communities. More powers and representation should be given to local government to act in the best interests of their communities.
Unalloyed good news. It'll be bees around a honeypot....
'Life's messy. Clean it up'
Chuka said nothing memorable
Berger is head and shoulders above the rest of these very small beasts
She also has a link to Labour royalty - given her family connection to Manny Shinwell - who also resigned from Labour in protest at the 1980s extremism
A Tory view. Berger is a one trick pony. Umunna is the magnet. Berger has very limited appeal beyond a tiny Jewish lobby.
Interesting there's no new party. What'll they do come election time?
It's an unsustainable position. They cannot now return to Labour: the bridges have been burned by this step. They have to either join another party or launch their own. They should have done it today. They've screwed up their best chance.
In effect they have - but have been sensible (or not had enough time) to avoid tying themselves to names, colours, manifestos etc - which makes sense since if a batch of Tories do decide to join them, it can be a genuine cross-party creation.
Well I didnt think it would happen this soon. A ballsy but rather selfish move that will really screw Labour's electoral chances. May must be considering an election if more follow and they stand as Independents. Would expect Wollaston to join them (she in no way is a Conservative) though for some reason I feel Soubry has some Tory genes underneath all the Pro European bluster.
I think it's great positioning. No fancy names, just designed to mop up those of independent mind of the centre-right, centre and centre-left. I hope some Tories will join. I can see the group welcoming Anna S, Heidi Allen and Sarah Wollaston, among others.
If the Labour party were called something else, and the new party took the name Labour, they'd be being mocked incessantly on Twitter. Particularly as Berger is pregnant.
I think my point is that political party names are generally dull?
As a Labour supporter I am worried and I think I am right to be worried. We saw what Macron was able to do in France. Formed a new Centrist Party - En Marche - and a couple of years later he sweeps to power. Dynamism, intellect, yes, but the main thing was that his timing was right. There is no reason, if he too has got the timing right, why Mike Gapes cannot do exactly the same here.
I think it is very much too early to say. My personal meandering political stroll from Conservative to "none of the above" may take another slight detour. I realise I am representative of nothing, but still.
If they were really cunning they will have some more ready to leave in the coming days, where they can claim we were inspired by them, corbyn outriders disgust me in their reaction to this news..and a few tories who will claim may / brexit / etc.
Frank Field and John Woodcock surely
I don't think they'd want Hopkins or Ivan Lewis but not sure they could say no.
The pitch to Tories ("we will never let in a Conservative government") is interesting but possible
Woodcock ain't going to be allowed in - they're not quite THAT daft as to allow in an alleged sex pest in the current climate.
I don't see why Field would join a group which has opposing Brexit as one of it's MO's (though, interestingly, I see their "statement" doesn't expressly commit to opposing Brexit, just some waffle about "strong alliances with European allies", which is the type of thing even May spouts).
From Vince: "The Liberal Democrats are open to working with like-minded groups and individuals in order to give the people the final say on Brexit, with the option to remain in the EU. We will be engaging in talks to progress both that campaign and a wider political agenda. #LabourSplit"
Very centrist manifesto on the website (compared to their pretty left-wing (as you would expect) statements today):
Britain works best as a diverse, mixed social market economy, in which well-regulated private enterprise can reward aspiration and drive economic progress and where government has the responsibility to ensure the sound stewardship of taxpayer’s money and a stable, fair and balanced economy. A strong economy means we can invest in our public services. We believe the collective provision of public services and the NHS can be delivered through government action, improving health and educational life chances, protecting the public, safeguarding the vulnerable, ensuring dignity at every stage of life and placing individuals at the heart of decision-making. The people of this country have the ability to create fairer, more prosperous communities for present and future generations. We believe that this creativity is best realised in a society which fosters individual freedom and supports all families. The barriers of poverty, prejudice and discrimination facing individuals should be removed and advancement occur on the basis of merit, with inequalities reduced through the extension of opportunity, giving individuals the skills and means to open new doors and fulfil their ambitions. Individuals are capable of taking responsibility if opportunities are offered to them, everybody can and should make a contribution to society and that contribution should be recognised. Paid work should be secure and pay should be fair. Our free media, the rule of law, and our open, tolerant and respectful democratic society should be cherished and renewed. We believe that our parliamentary democracy in which our elected representatives deliberate, decide and provide leadership, held accountable by their whole electorate is the best system of representing the views of the British people. In order to face the challenges and opportunities presented by globalisation, migration and technological advances, we believe the multilateral, international rules-based order must be strengthened and reformed. We believe in maintaining strong alliances with our closest European and international allies on trade, regulation, defence, security and counter-terrorism As part of the global community we have a responsibility to future generations to protect our environment, safeguard the planet, plan development sustainably and to act on the urgency of climate change. Power should be devolved to the most appropriate level, trusting and involving local communities. More powers and representation should be given to local government to act in the best interests of their communities.
This is managerial balls. I prefer Corbo's Sturm und Drang.
As Lenin said; without a revolutionary theory there can be no revolutionary movement. There is no theory here.
There are a variety of bets to consider today, but one bet stands out to me: lay Jeremy Corbyn for next Prime Minister. He may or may not get there in the end but in this Parliament his task has just got 7 MPs harder, with the distinct prospect of more to follow. Since Theresa May has already said that she is stepping down before the next election, he should not now be anything like as short as 6.8 last matched.
Corbyn has always been too short as next PM. GE this year must be more likely now surely.
OK well the main question is simple: is this a mini-opposition breakaway Labour group working to overthrow the hated Tories, or is it a come all ye cross-party, centrist grouping.
Website seems to suggest the latter; the speeches the former.
Doing it as an loose group of independents rather than a new party is quite smart as it can become a repository for MPs from any side who think the current parties are broken.
Which somewhat invites the question of why they haven't mopped a bunch of the existing ones up already? If Woodcock/Lloyd are deemed personae non grata due to being not anti-Brexit, what does that say?
So presumably this "Independence Group" is a bit like how the Gang Of Four launched the Council For Social Democracy in January 1981 which became the SDP in March 1981?
I'm guessing the formation of the new party will be after 29th March?
Will The Independent Group put up a candidate in Newport West?
Am wondering if other Lab MPs will leave Corbyn's rump later this week, they might not be happy by the response of some of Corbyn's followers to long serving MPs.
Unalloyed good news. It'll be bees around a honeypot....
'Life's messy. Clean it up'
Chuka said nothing memorable
Berger is head and shoulders above the rest of these very small beasts
She also has a link to Labour royalty - given her family connection to Manny Shinwell - who also resigned from Labour in protest at the 1980s extremism
A Tory view. Berger is a one trick pony. Umunna is the magnet. Berger has very limited appeal beyond a tiny Jewish lobby.
I mentioned it once but I think I got away with it!
As a Labour supporter I am worried and I think I am right to be worried. We saw what Macron was able to do in France. Formed a new Centrist Party - En Marche - and a couple of years later he sweeps to power. Dynamism, intellect, yes, but the main thing was that his timing was right. There is no reason, if he too has got the timing right, why Mike Gapes cannot do exactly the same here.
Britain works best as a diverse, mixed social market economy, in which well-regulated private enterprise can reward aspiration and drive economic progress and where government has the responsibility to ensure the sound stewardship of taxpayer’s money and a stable, fair and balanced economy.
If they were really cunning they will have some more ready to leave in the coming days, where they can claim we were inspired by them, corbyn outriders disgust me in their reaction to this news..and a few tories who will claim may / brexit / etc.
Frank Field and John Woodcock surely
I don't think they'd want Hopkins or Ivan Lewis but not sure they could say no.
The pitch to Tories ("we will never let in a Conservative government") is interesting but possible
Woodcock ain't going to be allowed in - they're not quite THAT daft as to allow in an alleged sex pest in the current climate.
I don't see why Field would join a group which has opposing Brexit as one of it's MO's (though, interestingly, I see their "statement" doesn't expressly commit to opposing Brexit, just some waffle about "strong alliances with European allies", which is the type of thing even May spouts).
I don't think they would announce either, I think they would just be in the same circles.
If there is a party launch - likely after 29 March - then they could be quietly brought into the fold.
As a Labour supporter I am worried and I think I am right to be worried. We saw what Macron was able to do in France. Formed a new Centrist Party - En Marche - and a couple of years later he sweeps to power. Dynamism, intellect, yes, but the main thing was that his timing was right. There is no reason, if he too has got the timing right, why Mike Gapes cannot do exactly the same here.
This is key now - those Lab MPs who stay are now tied to the great leaders project so don't need to sign the 'vow'.... they are in that ship unless they join the Independent Group.
Comments
https://twitter.com/PickardJE/status/1097441881062035457
I think it's great positioning. No fancy names, just designed to mop up those of independent mind of the centre-right, centre and centre-left. I hope some Tories will join. I can see the group welcoming Anna S, Heidi Allen and Sarah Wollaston, among others.
Who is this? Anyone know?
The Independent Group of MPs is supported by Gemini A Ltd a company limited by guarantee.
Registered address:
3rd Floor
1 Ashley Road
Altrincham
Cheshire
WA14 2DT
UK
(And what happened to the twin, who I assume is Gemini B )
Top stuff.
From small acorns large oak trees grow
The Independent Group need more MPs. Seven isn't enough. They could do with overhauling the SNP (35) to become the third party. Perhaps if they have some good polling more will follow.
Wonder if we will see a similar move by the Hard Remainers in the Tory Party?
And thanks to this site I've been made aware of one called Newsthump, when I found the following:
'Changes to BST mean clocks will go back by 70 years at the end of March'
Which I thought was rather good!
These 7 MPs are very brave and principled. Compare and contrast to the the rest of the HoC.
Unalloyed good news. It'll be bees around a honeypot....
'Life's messy. Clean it up'
It's working sporadically.
They are seeking signing ups and donations.
It is happening.
This could be a snowball that becomes an avalanche.
Berger is head and shoulders above the rest of these very small beasts
She also has a link to Labour royalty - given her family connection to Manny Shinwell - who also resigned from Labour in protest at the 1980s extremism
I don't think they'd want Hopkins or Ivan Lewis but not sure they could say no.
The pitch to Tories ("we will never let in a Conservative government") is interesting but possible
Britain works best as a diverse, mixed social market economy, in which well-regulated private enterprise can reward aspiration and drive economic progress and where government has the responsibility to ensure the sound stewardship of taxpayer’s money and a stable, fair and balanced economy.
A strong economy means we can invest in our public services. We believe the collective provision of public services and the NHS can be delivered through government action, improving health and educational life chances, protecting the public, safeguarding the vulnerable, ensuring dignity at every stage of life and placing individuals at the heart of decision-making.
The people of this country have the ability to create fairer, more prosperous communities for present and future generations. We believe that this creativity is best realised in a society which fosters individual freedom and supports all families.
The barriers of poverty, prejudice and discrimination facing individuals should be removed and advancement occur on the basis of merit, with inequalities reduced through the extension of opportunity, giving individuals the skills and means to open new doors and fulfil their ambitions.
Individuals are capable of taking responsibility if opportunities are offered to them, everybody can and should make a contribution to society and that contribution should be recognised. Paid work should be secure and pay should be fair.
Our free media, the rule of law, and our open, tolerant and respectful democratic society should be cherished and renewed.
We believe that our parliamentary democracy in which our elected representatives deliberate, decide and provide leadership, held accountable by their whole electorate is the best system of representing the views of the British people.
In order to face the challenges and opportunities presented by globalisation, migration and technological advances, we believe the multilateral, international rules-based order must be strengthened and reformed. We believe in maintaining strong alliances with our closest European and international allies on trade, regulation, defence, security and counter-terrorism
As part of the global community we have a responsibility to future generations to protect our environment, safeguard the planet, plan development sustainably and to act on the urgency of climate change.
Power should be devolved to the most appropriate level, trusting and involving local communities. More powers and representation should be given to local government to act in the best interests of their communities.
But I guess that will be one of the big question in coming months.
Would expect Wollaston to join them (she in no way is a Conservative) though for some reason I feel Soubry has some Tory genes underneath all the Pro European bluster.
I think my point is that political party names are generally dull?
Never catch on with politicians though.....
That's a big ask, but the Labour split creates a greater inventive than the good of the country alone.
I don't see why Field would join a group which has opposing Brexit as one of it's MO's (though, interestingly, I see their "statement" doesn't expressly commit to opposing Brexit, just some waffle about "strong alliances with European allies", which is the type of thing even May spouts).
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As Lenin said; without a revolutionary theory there can be no revolutionary movement. There is no theory here.
I'm guessing the formation of the new party will be after 29th March?
Counting all categories, splitters, expulsions (which includes the Perjury one) and death in service.
Is that about 14?
Am wondering if other Lab MPs will leave Corbyn's rump later this week, they might not be happy by the response of some of Corbyn's followers to long serving MPs.
If there is a party launch - likely after 29 March - then they could be quietly brought into the fold.
Christ @Roger wake up.
Fair play to them.