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Thanks.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1085278300585496582AlastairMeeks said:I see Tom Pursglove voted against. Has he resigned his position?
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Who would still oppose it even with the backstop dealt with? Its the backstop Boris, JRM and many others have been underpinning all their key objections on.Sean_F said:
You'd have 50 Tory MP's opposing it, regardless.Philip_Thompson said:
1) Then we no deal and lets see Varadkar put up his hard border.edmundintokyo said:
Two problems:Philip_Thompson said:It's not going to happen but if May was brave there is a logically consistent way out of this mess.
May should make a speech tomorrow saying she respects Parliament's decision that it has made, but that the decision of the British people in the referendum's decision must also be made. That at the start of this process that she said that no deal would be better than a bad deal, so with reluctance with Parliament determining this is a bad deal she will now be concentrating on no deal preparations. However if the EU can address Parliament's concerns in a legally binding manner, specifically with regards to the backstop, that an amended deal could be brought back to Parliament. Either way we continue to leave on 29 March 2019.
[Over to you Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar]
1) Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar would immediately and unanimously say lol no
2) The deal still wouldn't pass the House of Commons
2) I think it would. The stated reason why well over one hundred MPs voted no having been dealt with.
The Backstop's not the only objection.
The transition was agreed in principle very early on. Its the backstop that is unbearable.0 -
You have to give Clegg a large share of the blame too given that a lot of the rot set in during the coalition years.Black_Rook said:
Oh, I'm sure that the emotional wounds will heal with time :-)TheScreamingEagles said:
That's how I felt about David Cameron's announcing his resignation.kle4 said:It's funny how even a totally expected outcome can still hit like a punch in the gut.
I'm not sure if I've recovered or ever will.
David Cameron wrecked his career and half-a-century of UK foreign policy, all for the sake of trying to solve his party's little Farage problem.
If his long-awaited memoirs ultimately reveal that Cameron was, in fact, a closet Eurosceptic all along then his actions might have had some sensible, from that standpoint, rationale to them. But somehow I doubt it.
The man's a fool.0 -
OK.AlastairMeeks said:
Yes. I flagged that I had changed my mind in my predictions at the end of last year.stjohn said:
Alistair. Did you reverse from your betting position that the UK would Brexit by 29/03/19?AlastairMeeks said:I haven’t yet got my head round what this unprecedentedly massive defeat is likely to mean. I’m going to sleep on it.
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LOL!TheScreamingEagles said:
That's how I felt about David Cameron's announcing his resignation.kle4 said:It's funny how even a totally expected outcome can still hit like a punch in the gut.
I'm not sure if I've recovered or ever will.
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At some point, and we may be there already, a vote for May's government is a vote for No Deal Brexit.Scott_P said:
Only a new leader can renegotiate and get an a50 extension.0 -
My husband was watching a discussion on Sky News earlier. Vernon Bogdanor apparently believes that the chance of No Deal has increased (with the caveat that we live in strange times and events could yet prove him wrong.) Suggested bounce in the value of the pound was down to traders not understanding the political intricacies.Scott_P said:
(EDIT: Bogdanor did suggest that we might see more ministerial resignations in the near future, however)0 -
When Cameron was our MP, he would frequently pronounce that our little town - the one place that consistently voted Lib Dem in his overwhelming Tory constituency - was "disputatious" and "argumentative". He once said that "I can be flavour of the month in Westminster and everyone's applauding me, then I come back here and you tell me precisely what I've done wrong and why I'll never amount to anything."Black_Rook said:
Oh, I'm sure that the emotional wounds will heal with time :-)TheScreamingEagles said:
That's how I felt about David Cameron's announcing his resignation.kle4 said:It's funny how even a totally expected outcome can still hit like a punch in the gut.
I'm not sure if I've recovered or ever will.
David Cameron wrecked his career and half-a-century of UK foreign policy, all for the sake of trying to solve his party's little Farage problem.
If his long-awaited memoirs ultimately reveal that Cameron was, in fact, a closet Eurosceptic all along then his actions might have had some sensible, from that standpoint, rationale to them. But somehow I doubt it.
The man's a fool.
All very affectionately - he liked us and, as a constituency MP, we liked him: we asked him back to open our new Community Centre the other year and he gave a terrific speech. But he'd have to drive past the EU flags fluttering from houses in the town to get there.
Should have listened to us, Dave, shouldn't you?0 -
They're both blameless. They acted with good intent, and did what they saw to be right. (How could anyone do otherwise?)williamglenn said:
You have to give Clegg a large share of the blame too given that a lot of the rot set in during the coalition years.Black_Rook said:
Oh, I'm sure that the emotional wounds will heal with time :-)TheScreamingEagles said:
That's how I felt about David Cameron's announcing his resignation.kle4 said:It's funny how even a totally expected outcome can still hit like a punch in the gut.
I'm not sure if I've recovered or ever will.
David Cameron wrecked his career and half-a-century of UK foreign policy, all for the sake of trying to solve his party's little Farage problem.
If his long-awaited memoirs ultimately reveal that Cameron was, in fact, a closet Eurosceptic all along then his actions might have had some sensible, from that standpoint, rationale to them. But somehow I doubt it.
The man's a fool.0 -
Def buy £/$. By the end of the year it will look like the trading opportunity of a lifetime.Scott_P said:0 -
Brexit Wounds?Black_Rook said:
Oh, I'm sure that the emotional wounds will heal with time :-)TheScreamingEagles said:
That's how I felt about David Cameron's announcing his resignation.kle4 said:It's funny how even a totally expected outcome can still hit like a punch in the gut.
I'm not sure if I've recovered or ever will.0 -
You have to accept that there are a number who distrust the EU so deeply, that anything agreed with them is, by definition, unacceptable. Then there are those who simply like moaning about it, who probably don't want to leave as that would mean writing a new speech.Philip_Thompson said:
Who would still oppose it even with the backstop dealt with? Its the backstop Boris, JRM and many others have been underpinning all their key objections on.Sean_F said:
You'd have 50 Tory MP's opposing it, regardless.Philip_Thompson said:
1) Then we no deal and lets see Varadkar put up his hard border.edmundintokyo said:
Two problems:Philip_Thompson said:It's not going to happen but if May was brave there is a logically consistent way out of this mess.
May should make a speech tomorrow saying she respects Parliament's decision that it has made, but that the decision of the British people in the referendum's decision must also be made. That at the start of this process that she said that no deal would be better than a bad deal, so with reluctance with Parliament determining this is a bad deal she will now be concentrating on no deal preparations. However if the EU can address Parliament's concerns in a legally binding manner, specifically with regards to the backstop, that an amended deal could be brought back to Parliament. Either way we continue to leave on 29 March 2019.
[Over to you Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar]
1) Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar would immediately and unanimously say lol no
2) The deal still wouldn't pass the House of Commons
2) I think it would. The stated reason why well over one hundred MPs voted no having been dealt with.
The Backstop's not the only objection.
The transition was agreed in principle very early on. Its the backstop that is unbearable.0 -
"A united front"
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/10852951075600916480 -
Allowing people into the UK parliament who did not finish first in their constituency was described by David Cameron as creating a "Parliament full of second-choices who no one really wanted but didn't really object to either."TheScreamingEagles said:
That's how I felt about David Cameron's announcing his resignation.kle4 said:It's funny how even a totally expected outcome can still hit like a punch in the gut.
I'm not sure if I've recovered or ever will.
- David Cameron. "Why keeping first past the post is vital for democracy." Daily Telegraph. 30 Apr 2011
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They’re all too fired up now - frothing with the notion that only a total severance from continental Europe will satisfy the People’s Will. Nothing Theresa or anyone else brought back would have placated.Philip_Thompson said:
Who would still oppose it even with the backstop dealt with? Its the backstop Boris, JRM and many others have been underpinning all their key objections on.Sean_F said:
You'd have 50 Tory MP's opposing it, regardless.Philip_Thompson said:
1) Then we no deal and lets see Varadkar put up his hard border.edmundintokyo said:
Two problems:Philip_Thompson said:It's not going to happen but if May was brave there is a logically consistent way out of this mess.
May should make a speech tomorrow saying she respects Parliament's decision that it has made, but that the decision of the British people in the referendum's decision must also be made. That at the start of this process that she said that no deal would be better than a bad deal, so with reluctance with Parliament determining this is a bad deal she will now be concentrating on no deal preparations. However if the EU can address Parliament's concerns in a legally binding manner, specifically with regards to the backstop, that an amended deal could be brought back to Parliament. Either way we continue to leave on 29 March 2019.
[Over to you Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar]
1) Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar would immediately and unanimously say lol no
2) The deal still wouldn't pass the House of Commons
2) I think it would. The stated reason why well over one hundred MPs voted no having been dealt with.
The Backstop's not the only objection.
The transition was agreed in principle very early on. Its the backstop that is unbearable.0 -
KLOBUCHAR doing a logo pitch competition, leave your logo at a coffee shop to participate
https://twitter.com/amyklobuchar/status/10852991400436572170 -
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She really should go.williamglenn said:"A united front"
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/10852951075600916480 -
Hang on a minute lads... I've got a great idea...tyson said:
-1 from me.....just to equalise stuff...Sandpit said:
+1Philip_Thompson said:It's not going to happen but if May was brave there is a logically consistent way out of this mess.
May should make a speech tomorrow saying she respects Parliament's decision that it has made, but that the decision of the British people in the referendum's decision must also be made. That at the start of this process that she said that no deal would be better than a bad deal, so with reluctance with Parliament determining this is a bad deal she will now be concentrating on no deal preparations. However if the EU can address Parliament's concerns in a legally binding manner, specifically with regards to the backstop, that an amended deal could be brought back to Parliament. Either way we continue to leave on 29 March 2019.
[Over to you Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar]
this is a very British problem- we need to sort our shit out first-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-iDJj01CvE0 -
Only four junior payroll resignations, that’s fewer than I expected.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1085278300585496582AlastairMeeks said:I see Tom Pursglove voted against. Has he resigned his position?
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Peeling off 30 Labour MPs, without a CU, aint gonna be easy.Black_Rook said:
My husband was watching a discussion on Sky News earlier. Vernon Bogdanor apparently believes that the chance of No Deal has increased (with the caveat that we live in strange times and events could yet prove him wrong.) Suggested bounce in the value of the pound was down to traders not understanding the political intricacies.Scott_P said:
(EDIT: Bogdanor did suggest that we might see more ministerial resignations in the near future, however)0 -
What good does a united front do if the EU still won't budge? And since they want us to remain why would they? And since half the commons also wants to remain and 1/12th to no deal, there's no chance of a united front anyway.williamglenn said:"A united front"
https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1085295107560091648
Look, May has been crap, we all know that, but people have also made plenty of stupid demands of her, things that are not in her gift.0 -
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"We believe that there remains scope to secure a Parliamentary majority for a version of May's current deal..."Scott_P said:
I don't understand why anybody thinks this is possible.0 -
I very much doubt Cameron's memoirs will ever appear. He will never be able to find words to justify his decision to call the referendum.Black_Rook said:
Oh, I'm sure that the emotional wounds will heal with time :-)TheScreamingEagles said:
That's how I felt about David Cameron's announcing his resignation.kle4 said:It's funny how even a totally expected outcome can still hit like a punch in the gut.
I'm not sure if I've recovered or ever will.
David Cameron wrecked his career and half-a-century of UK foreign policy, all for the sake of trying to solve his party's little Farage problem.
If his long-awaited memoirs ultimately reveal that Cameron was, in fact, a closet Eurosceptic all along then his actions might have had some sensible, from that standpoint, rationale to them. But somehow I doubt it.
The man's a fool.0 -
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I've no doubt Theresa May will claim she acted with good intent, and did what the saw to be right.Omnium said:
They're both blameless. They acted with good intent, and did what they saw to be right. (How could anyone do otherwise?)williamglenn said:
You have to give Clegg a large share of the blame too given that a lot of the rot set in during the coalition years.Black_Rook said:
Oh, I'm sure that the emotional wounds will heal with time :-)TheScreamingEagles said:
That's how I felt about David Cameron's announcing his resignation.kle4 said:It's funny how even a totally expected outcome can still hit like a punch in the gut.
I'm not sure if I've recovered or ever will.
David Cameron wrecked his career and half-a-century of UK foreign policy, all for the sake of trying to solve his party's little Farage problem.
If his long-awaited memoirs ultimately reveal that Cameron was, in fact, a closet Eurosceptic all along then his actions might have had some sensible, from that standpoint, rationale to them. But somehow I doubt it.
The man's a fool.
As did Tony Blair.0 -
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A pure heart and good intent is not enough. You have to not fuck up. That last bit's important...Omnium said:
They're both blameless. They acted with good intent, and did what they saw to be right. (How could anyone do otherwise?)williamglenn said:
You have to give Clegg a large share of the blame too given that a lot of the rot set in during the coalition years.Black_Rook said:
Oh, I'm sure that the emotional wounds will heal with time :-)TheScreamingEagles said:
That's how I felt about David Cameron's announcing his resignation.kle4 said:It's funny how even a totally expected outcome can still hit like a punch in the gut.
I'm not sure if I've recovered or ever will.
David Cameron wrecked his career and half-a-century of UK foreign policy, all for the sake of trying to solve his party's little Farage problem.
If his long-awaited memoirs ultimately reveal that Cameron was, in fact, a closet Eurosceptic all along then his actions might have had some sensible, from that standpoint, rationale to them. But somehow I doubt it.
The man's a fool. 0 -
Indeed. We've been hearing for months on this site about Labour MPs voting for this Deal, or abstaining in droves. Labour people insisted it would be minuscule. Turns out Labour people know the Labour Party better than PB Tories do.rottenborough said:
Peeling off 30 Labour MPs, without a CU, aint gonna be easy.Black_Rook said:
My husband was watching a discussion on Sky News earlier. Vernon Bogdanor apparently believes that the chance of No Deal has increased (with the caveat that we live in strange times and events could yet prove him wrong.) Suggested bounce in the value of the pound was down to traders not understanding the political intricacies.Scott_P said:
(EDIT: Bogdanor did suggest that we might see more ministerial resignations in the near future, however)
Who could have guessed?
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You were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off....viewcode said:
Hang on a minute lads... I've got a great idea...tyson said:
-1 from me.....just to equalise stuff...Sandpit said:
+1Philip_Thompson said:It's not going to happen but if May was brave there is a logically consistent way out of this mess.
May should make a speech tomorrow saying she respects Parliament's decision that it has made, but that the decision of the British people in the referendum's decision must also be made. That at the start of this process that she said that no deal would be better than a bad deal, so with reluctance with Parliament determining this is a bad deal she will now be concentrating on no deal preparations. However if the EU can address Parliament's concerns in a legally binding manner, specifically with regards to the backstop, that an amended deal could be brought back to Parliament. Either way we continue to leave on 29 March 2019.
[Over to you Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar]
this is a very British problem- we need to sort our shit out first-
www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-iDJj01CvE0 -
I thought this interesting:AlastairMeeks said:I haven’t yet got my head round what this unprecedentedly massive defeat is likely to mean. I’m going to sleep on it.
https://twitter.com/Kevin_Maguire/status/1085256577161052160?s=19
So even the ERG weren't willing to back the Deal with a softening of the Irish Backstop. They cannot be won round.
Only an appeal to the Labour front bench or No Deal Brexit.0 -
DD needs to go away and shut up - he’s doing his legacy nothing but damage with these blurtings.GIN1138 said:
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Remember folks this is the man who will ensure the supply of meds and foods aren't interrupted in the event of No Deal.
https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/10853006621439877120 -
I don't think there will be any "cross party consensus" - They're all like ferrets in a sack. And time is literally up...Scott_P said:0 -
Maybe Corbyn should watch the Darkest Hour for the next move.
We cannot work with May, but will work with a different PM.0 -
I've been saying for a long time we might end up there be design or accident. It has always seemed to be the closest to what the average person might want for our relationship with the EU.MaxPB said:
If Beth is correct and we somehow end up on the EFTA train then it will be a good result.Scott_P said:
That said I expect a second referendum and Remain to win. But in no way will that resolve the EU question, and quite frankly I expect violent opposition to it.0 -
I can't see any way the opposition parties come round in cross party talks. Corbyn's Labour will never officially throw a bone to May, and to get Labour MPs backing it would need much more movement towards Norway+, exactly the type of deal that would tear apart the tory party. May won't do that, and she herself has made ending FoM the single "good" talking point from her deal, it is the definition of brexit for her.
Parliament won't allow no deal. The MPs that voted to sabotage no deal know the choice they made, you don't vote for that then row back - they will be ready to VONC the government at a later date (not tomorrow) if no alternative is forthcoming, with an aim of GONU but accepting that Corbyn may be result.
If Corbyn can see a way to become PM he will bend whichever way he needs to on Brexit, be that a second ref, extending A50 or a "temporary" revocation.
Feels like the best chance for Brexit now is to win a 2nd ref (because i'm not at all sure that Remain has a second ref in the bag).0 -
Which makes the number of backbenchers opposed so much more surprising.Sandpit said:
Only four junior payroll resignations, that’s fewer than I expected.Scott_P said:
https://twitter.com/rosskempsell/status/1085278300585496582AlastairMeeks said:I see Tom Pursglove voted against. Has he resigned his position?
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I'm on record as saying I couldn't understand why ANY would vote for it. It just invited a word of pain. The only ones who might consider it must have already decided to retire.dixiedean said:
Indeed. We've been hearing for months on this site about Labour MPs voting for this Deal, or abstaining in droves. Labour people insisted it would be minuscule. Turns out Labour people know the Labour Party better than PB Tories do.rottenborough said:
Peeling off 30 Labour MPs, without a CU, aint gonna be easy.Black_Rook said:
My husband was watching a discussion on Sky News earlier. Vernon Bogdanor apparently believes that the chance of No Deal has increased (with the caveat that we live in strange times and events could yet prove him wrong.) Suggested bounce in the value of the pound was down to traders not understanding the political intricacies.Scott_P said:
(EDIT: Bogdanor did suggest that we might see more ministerial resignations in the near future, however)
Who could have guessed?0 -
The City expect a cross party agreement that will stop no deal and move to a softer brexit or even remainviewcode said:
"We believe that there remains scope to secure a Parliamentary majority for a version of May's current deal..."Scott_P said:
I don't understand why anybody thinks this is possible.0 -
A rather minority view in the PLP, it would seem!rottenborough said:0 -
You were only supposed to blow the bloody backstops off!viewcode said:
Hang on a minute lads... I've got a great idea...tyson said:
-1 from me.....just to equalise stuff...Sandpit said:
+1Philip_Thompson said:It's not going to happen but if May was brave there is a logically consistent way out of this mess.
May should make a speech tomorrow saying she respects Parliament's decision that it has made, but that the decision of the British people in the referendum's decision must also be made. That at the start of this process that she said that no deal would be better than a bad deal, so with reluctance with Parliament determining this is a bad deal she will now be concentrating on no deal preparations. However if the EU can address Parliament's concerns in a legally binding manner, specifically with regards to the backstop, that an amended deal could be brought back to Parliament. Either way we continue to leave on 29 March 2019.
[Over to you Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar]
this is a very British problem- we need to sort our shit out first-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-iDJj01CvE0 -
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Indeed. Theoretically its soft brexit, remain or no deal, but there's too much political gain for the various sides (or they believe so) that the obvious option of cross party support at this late stage, meaning softer brexit, won't get off the ground.GIN1138 said:
I don't think there will be any "cross party consensus" - They're all like ferrets in a sack. And time is literally up...Scott_P said:
It's time to stop pretending. Its no brexit or no deal, that's it.
What a choice. Good night all.
The rest are awaiting the Jezziah.RobD said:
A rather minority view in the PLP, it would seem!rottenborough said:0 -
When the Government has only one discernible policy, and an opposition MP votes for it, it may be regarded as a cause for consideration as to why one is an opposition MP in the first place. Surprised it was 3 in the end TBH.MarqueeMark said:
I'm on record as saying I couldn't understand why ANY would vote for it. It just invited a word of pain. The only ones who might consider it must have already decided to retire.dixiedean said:
Indeed. We've been hearing for months on this site about Labour MPs voting for this Deal, or abstaining in droves. Labour people insisted it would be minuscule. Turns out Labour people know the Labour Party better than PB Tories do.rottenborough said:
Peeling off 30 Labour MPs, without a CU, aint gonna be easy.Black_Rook said:
My husband was watching a discussion on Sky News earlier. Vernon Bogdanor apparently believes that the chance of No Deal has increased (with the caveat that we live in strange times and events could yet prove him wrong.) Suggested bounce in the value of the pound was down to traders not understanding the political intricacies.Scott_P said:
(EDIT: Bogdanor did suggest that we might see more ministerial resignations in the near future, however)
Who could have guessed?0 -
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Grayling went to Cambridge and was chosen by a Tory association to be its candidate. What the fuck does that say about the selection procedures of these organisations?TheScreamingEagles said:Remember folks this is the man who will ensure the supply of meds and foods aren't interrupted in the event of No Deal.
https://twitter.com/StevePeers/status/1085300662143987712
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It’s Grayling.Foxy said:
I thought this interesting:AlastairMeeks said:I haven’t yet got my head round what this unprecedentedly massive defeat is likely to mean. I’m going to sleep on it.
https://twitter.com/Kevin_Maguire/status/1085256577161052160?s=19
So even the ERG weren't willing to back the Deal with a softening of the Irish Backstop. They cannot be won round.
Only an appeal to the Labour front bench or No Deal Brexit.
I’m on the fucking pig ignorant side of the bet.0 -
Some people have been so virulently against the EU for so long that they cannot accept any deal with it and will find any reason to object to it, even if those reasons are ridiculous. Some of the MPs fall into that category.Philip_Thompson said:Who would still oppose it even with the backstop dealt with?
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I hope I don't bore you by repeating myself, but I think the pessimists(?) on here are correct: the most likely outcome is no-deal. I don't see anything stopping it unless May asks for an extension, and I don't think she will.Big_G_NorthWales said:
The City expect a cross party agreement that will stop no deal and move to a softer brexit or even remainviewcode said:
"We believe that there remains scope to secure a Parliamentary majority for a version of May's current deal..."Scott_P said:
I don't understand why anybody thinks this is possible.0 -
Peston talking up a double split and a gnu.
Not likely but the thing I like about Pezza is he is prepared to speculate and be provocative.
Unlike Laura The Borer.0 -
Farage seemed to be coming to same conclusion when he got extended airtime on BBC with Andrew Neil (five guests - Farage did almost all the talking).Paristonda said:I can't see any way the opposition parties come round in cross party talks. Corbyn's Labour will never officially throw a bone to May, and to get Labour MPs backing it would need much more movement towards Norway+, exactly the type of deal that would tear apart the tory party. May won't do that, and she herself has made ending FoM the single "good" talking point from her deal, it is the definition of brexit for her.
Parliament won't allow no deal. The MPs that voted to sabotage no deal know the choice they made, you don't vote for that then row back - they will be ready to VONC the government at a later date (not tomorrow) if no alternative is forthcoming, with an aim of GONU but accepting that Corbyn may be result.
If Corbyn can see a way to become PM he will bend whichever way he needs to on Brexit, be that a second ref, extending A50 or a "temporary" revocation.
Feels like the best chance for Brexit now is to win a 2nd ref (because i'm not at all sure that Remain has a second ref in the bag).0 -
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I wasn’t aware one could negate the teeth-grindingly awful PB meme of +1.tyson said:
-1 from me.....just to equalise stuff...Sandpit said:
+1Philip_Thompson said:It's not going to happen but if May was brave there is a logically consistent way out of this mess.
May should make a speech tomorrow saying she respects Parliament's decision that it has made, but that the decision of the British people in the referendum's decision must also be made. That at the start of this process that she said that no deal would be better than a bad deal, so with reluctance with Parliament determining this is a bad deal she will now be concentrating on no deal preparations. However if the EU can address Parliament's concerns in a legally binding manner, specifically with regards to the backstop, that an amended deal could be brought back to Parliament. Either way we continue to leave on 29 March 2019.
[Over to you Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar]
this is a very British problem- we need to sort our shit out first-
I’ll submit another -1.
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So if Deal+Remain Referendum somehow loses zero Tories, you need to swing 230/2 = 115. SNP+LD gets you like 45, so add that to 75 Lab and you just squeak it (120). But you'd lose more than zero Tories...rottenborough said:0 -
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Just laid off my bet from November that we would not leave on 29th March.
Always nice to emerge all green.0 -
I see that front page quotes both Rees-Mogg and Corbyn gloating over Therea’s humiliation. Is that where the Tory party really wants to be?Scott_P said:
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I too thought that meme was unspoofable.Anazina said:
I wasn’t aware one could negate the teeth-grindingly awful PB meme of +1.tyson said:
-1 from me.....just to equalise stuff...Sandpit said:
+1Philip_Thompson said:It's not going to happen but if May was brave there is a logically consistent way out of this mess.
May should make a speech tomorrow saying she respects Parliament's decision that it has made, but that the decision of the British people in the referendum's decision must also be made. That at the start of this process that she said that no deal would be better than a bad deal, so with reluctance with Parliament determining this is a bad deal she will now be concentrating on no deal preparations. However if the EU can address Parliament's concerns in a legally binding manner, specifically with regards to the backstop, that an amended deal could be brought back to Parliament. Either way we continue to leave on 29 March 2019.
[Over to you Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar]
this is a very British problem- we need to sort our shit out first-
I’ll submit another -1.
Oh, my coat?
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From a tactical point of view it would be really helpful if any non-british person would stfu abut a second referendum...Scott_P said:0 -
It's where the headbangers want to be.Stark_Dawning said:I see that front page quotes both Rees-Mogg and Corbyn gloating over Therea’s humiliation. Is that where the Tory party really wants to be?
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It's possible. If standing order 14 remains in force and Theresa May won't budge on her Withdrawal Agreement, then pro-EU MPs will have to think of creative ways to get rid of her. Otherwise, the clock runs down and they either have to swallow the Deal or watch Hard Brexit happen.Anazina said:Peston talking up a double split and a gnu.
Not likely but the thing I like about Pezza is he is prepared to speculate and be provocative.
Unlike Laura The Borer.
A gross failure to reach agreement followed by Deal or No Deal, or a small breakaway by Tory Hard Remainers (eight should be sufficient) both seem more likely, but a major realignment isn't impossible. The barriers to it are high: party loyalty, abandoning the party name and organisation to the rump left behind, and the need for the move to be co-ordinated so that a trap isn't sprung (where only one side splits and it ends up being routed by the other in a GE.) But there are also advantages for centrist MPs - jettisoning the ERG wing on one side, escaping the control of Corbyn on the other - so if they get desperate enough then they might just end up giving it a go.0 -
Nobody ever died from taking a profit early. Well done.rottenborough said:Just laid off my bet from November that we would not leave on 29th March.
Always nice to emerge all green.0 -
As, I pointed out earlier, Boris has already explained the Tory party position on business.Scott_P said:0 -
It's cheddar cheese with pineapple on a stick on Newsnight.0
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cheers.viewcode said:
Nobody ever died from taking a profit early. Well done.rottenborough said:Just laid off my bet from November that we would not leave on 29th March.
Always nice to emerge all green.0 -
He's grown on me a lot.rottenborough said:
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I think if MPs were honest we would see that the only thing there's really a majority for is Remain. Parliament has always been at odds with the country in that regard, they were never 50/50 on the EU.rottenborough said:
As a body they offered us a referendum where one outcome was unacceptable to the majority of MPs. Everything that has followed has been driven by that simple fact. If they could get away with it they'd revoke and Remain now, a 2nd Referendum will merely serve as political cover for what MPs really want to do.0 -
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How clever that the ERG motley coup pre Xmas means TMay is safe in her own party for 11 months still..... Soft brexit please....0
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DD still seeing unicorns in front of his eyes, as he claims, yet again, that German car manufacturers will force EU to renegotiated.
Did he actually go to Brussels at all?0 -
Farage did the same on Neil's programme earlier.... Nothing has changed for some leavers clearly.Scott_P said:0 -
You're a hypocrite - a few minutes earlier you were chortling over the Cameron 'chaos with Ed M' tweet meme. You don't dislike memes, you just dislike some others like. Why do you think your memes deserve to be chuckled at but others condemned?Anazina said:
I wasn’t aware one could negate the teeth-grindingly awful PB meme of +1.tyson said:
-1 from me.....just to equalise stuff...Sandpit said:
+1Philip_Thompson said:It's not going to happen but if May was brave there is a logically consistent way out of this mess.
May should make a speech tomorrow saying she respects Parliament's decision that it has made, but that the decision of the British people in the referendum's decision must also be made. That at the start of this process that she said that no deal would be better than a bad deal, so with reluctance with Parliament determining this is a bad deal she will now be concentrating on no deal preparations. However if the EU can address Parliament's concerns in a legally binding manner, specifically with regards to the backstop, that an amended deal could be brought back to Parliament. Either way we continue to leave on 29 March 2019.
[Over to you Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar]
this is a very British problem- we need to sort our shit out first-
I’ll submit another -1.
And +1 isn't even a meme for crying out loud. It's just people indicating they really liked a statement, as there's no like button.0 -
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Well a historic day and Parliament have made a complete horlicks of brexit
If TM wins tomorrow and carries on as PM I will admit I have no idea how she squares the circle between remain and leave
On the other hand Corbyn was poor at the dispatch box today and frankly looks out of his depth
Where is the saviour in a political sense for our once great country0 -
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1. Continuity Remain (Grieve, Allen ,Soubry, Wollaston, Gyimah, Lee, Jo Johnson, Bebb,)Philip_Thompson said:
Who would still oppose it even with the backstop dealt with? Its the backstop Boris, JRM and many others have been underpinning all their key objections on.Sean_F said:
You'd have 50 Tory MP's opposing it, regardless.Philip_Thompson said:
1) Then we no deal and lets see Varadkar put up his hard border.edmundintokyo said:
Two problems:Philip_Thompson said:It's not going to happen but if May was brave there is a logically consistent way out of this mess.
May should make a speech tomorrow saying she respects Parliament's decision that it has made, but that the decision of the British people in the referendum's decision must also be made. That at the start of this process that she said that no deal would be better than a bad deal, so with reluctance with Parliament determining this is a bad deal she will now be concentrating on no deal preparations. However if the EU can address Parliament's concerns in a legally binding manner, specifically with regards to the backstop, that an amended deal could be brought back to Parliament. Either way we continue to leave on 29 March 2019.
[Over to you Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar]
1) Juncker/Barnier/Varadkar would immediately and unanimously say lol no
2) The deal still wouldn't pass the House of Commons
2) I think it would. The stated reason why well over one hundred MPs voted no having been dealt with.
The Backstop's not the only objection.
The transition was agreed in principle very early on. Its the backstop that is unbearable.
2. Ex-ministers, furious about leaving office (Fallon, Villiers, , Shapps, Hands, Greening, Collins, Mitchell, )
3. The Thick (Bridgen, Wiggin, Baron, Patel, Syms, Jenkyns, Francois, Bradley, David Davis, Duddridge, Philip Davies, IDS, Bone, Holloborne,
4. The opportunists (Boris, Raab, McVey, Pursglove)
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Is this where we all put our face in our hands and cryrottenborough said:0 -
They must have a lot on their plates, they've resolutely failed to do so for years.Scott_P said:
The bottom line of that particularly unicorn fantasy is that if we say to the EU we are prepared to suffer the consequences of walking away they will believe us, but when they say they are prepared to suffer the consequences of walking away we don't believe them because they could not possibly mean it as who would be so foolish as to do that?
Or even more simply, that politicians on the other side won't play politics, even as we complain about their playing politics. And they would never prioritise things other than economic impacts, even as we do that very thing.
Idiocy.0 -
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A very good question Big_G.Big_G_NorthWales said:Well a historic day and Parliament have made a complete horlicks of brexit
If TM wins tomorrow and carries on as PM I will admit I have no idea how she squares the circle between remain and leave
On the other hand Corbyn was poor at the dispatch box today and frankly looks out of his depth
Where is the saviour in a political sense for our once great country
0 -
Theresa's got a "Here's Johnny!" face on the left hand picture.Scott_P said:0 -
He was sat in Green Park eating a sandwich and doing a sudoku when everyone thought he was in Bruxelles like one of those blokes that get made redundant and can't tell their Mrs.rottenborough said:DD still seeing unicorns in front of his eyes, as he claims, yet again, that German car manufacturers will force EU to renegotiated.
Did he actually go to Brussels at all?0 -
He hasn't displayed any to get brexit over the lineScott_P said:
I think that shortly TM will go to Brussels, some improvements may be offered, then the EU will state this is the end state of the deal, will not re-open discussions with anyone including labour, and that A50 can only be deferred until the 18th April, the date the EU elections commence0 -
They can split in the Commons and give themselves three years to sort out the details.Black_Rook said:
It's possible. If standing order 14 remains in force and Theresa May won't budge on her Withdrawal Agreement, then pro-EU MPs will have to think of creative ways to get rid of her. Otherwise, the clock runs down and they either have to swallow the Deal or watch Hard Brexit happen.Anazina said:Peston talking up a double split and a gnu.
Not likely but the thing I like about Pezza is he is prepared to speculate and be provocative.
Unlike Laura The Borer.
A gross failure to reach agreement followed by Deal or No Deal, or a small breakaway by Tory Hard Remainers (eight should be sufficient) both seem more likely, but a major realignment isn't impossible. The barriers to it are high: party loyalty, abandoning the party name and organisation to the rump left behind, and the need for the move to be co-ordinated so that a trap isn't sprung (where only one side splits and it ends up being routed by the other in a GE.) But there are also advantages for centrist MPs - jettisoning the ERG wing on one side, escaping the control of Corbyn on the other - so if they get desperate enough then they might just end up giving it a go.
Fantasy politics. But, as you say, who knows?0 -
https://twitter.com/BBCTimFranks/status/1085312609442844672
Important point: so long as Corbyn keeps running confidence votes on a loop, he doesn't have to admit that his attempt to secure a General Election has failed - so the party's policy of moving on to look at other options (e.g. the dreaded second referendum) can be safely set fire to and dropped into the nearest bin.
And all the time, the countdown to No Deal continues...0 -
rottenborough said:
DD still seeing unicorns in front of his eyes, as he claims, yet again, that German car manufacturers will force EU to renegotiated.
Did he actually go to Brussels at all?
Don’t forget the “French wine producers”.
I am fond of the idea of agricultural workers in the Medoc saving our bacon, but am not holding out great hopes.0 -
Could he do sudoku ?Dura_Ace said:
He was sat in Green Park eating a sandwich and doing a sudoku when everyone thought he was in Bruxelles like one of those blokes that get made redundant and can't tell their Mrs.rottenborough said:DD still seeing unicorns in front of his eyes, as he claims, yet again, that German car manufacturers will force EU to renegotiated.
Did he actually go to Brussels at all?0 -
So, with today's defeat it seems we have movement by May. How much we'll find out. Soooo......
1) May wants her deal.
2) Labour (officially) wants a perma customs union.
3) The EU won't touch the WA, but there's room for some sort of letter of intent on the direction of future travel wrt the trade agreement.
Norway+CU as a commonly-declared intended future state, based on the WA in the short term? Corbyn and May can both claim victory. No crash-exit.0
