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Pulpstar said:

Carolus_Rex said:

Scott_P said:

BBC just showed a live shot of the podium at No10 for the presser.

It did not appear to have the PM seal on it...

Some official spots this and thinks "Oh shit, I forgot the crest" while the markets go nuts...

What does "no crest" mean ?

Party political

Theo said:

Beverley_C said:

Theo said:

Beverley_C said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1063018560811945984

It all might come to nothing, but I hugely enjoyed myself today watching the Brexit Delusion crumble. All we need now for the Tory Party to complete the first phase of its Phoenix-like rebirth is JRM or Ms Patel for leader and marching us into the WTO wilderness.

Actually, I am not sure a phoenix would recover from that conflagration....

May delivered a deal that showed Brexit was possible while maintaining economic access and controlling immigration. It was acceptable to 80% of people on here. The ERG, Labour and the SNP have united to screw the rest of us over.

Scum, scum, scum.

As a remainer, I hate to agree with the Brexit loons, but vassalage does sound very close to what the deal promises. I still believe we are better off in the EU compared to any other option available.

Brexit is complete nonsense unless we are willing to take a massive economic dislocation (and that would be complete madness)

Only idiots would describe this as vassalage. We regain control over 80% of our economy, immigration and plenty else.

But no one cares about the actual facts. People just care about pushing silly analogies and talking points so they can be self righteous over the other lot.

My country has become full of self indulgent puerile t***s. Any sense of doing the right thing, dealing with practical realities, making measured necessary compromises has gone. I am ashamed to be British right now.

Completely agree. The deal would give us back control over some but not all of the economy and 100% control over immigration . Which is a pretty satisfactory outcome that reflects. The result of the referendum.

Most importantly of all it would keep us out of all the barmy further integration projects like the EU army Merkel and Macron have been pushing for this week.

It's a good deal. Is it the best deal? No. Is it better than no deal, car crash Brexit? Yes. Is it better than ever closer union? Undoubtedly.

Rory batting for the deal:

https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1063108089510019073

Pulpstar said:

Carolus_Rex said:

Scott_P said:

BBC just showed a live shot of the podium at No10 for the presser.

It did not appear to have the PM seal on it...

Some official spots this and thinks "Oh shit, I forgot the crest" while the markets go nuts...

What does "no crest" mean ?

In theory it means that she is likely to be speaking as Leader of the Conservative Party, rather than as Prime Minister of HM Government.

(Makes it more likely to be VONC / Resignation)

Pulpstar said:

Carolus_Rex said:

Scott_P said:

BBC just showed a live shot of the podium at No10 for the presser.

It did not appear to have the PM seal on it...

Some official spots this and thinks "Oh shit, I forgot the crest" while the markets go nuts...

What does "no crest" mean ?

Her statement is not from the office of PM (i.e. it's a political announcement - like a general election).

Pulpstar said:

Carolus_Rex said:

Scott_P said:

BBC just showed a live shot of the podium at No10 for the presser.

It did not appear to have the PM seal on it...

Some official spots this and thinks "Oh shit, I forgot the crest" while the markets go nuts...

What does "no crest" mean ?

You need the crest to announce an election - according to R4 yesterday.

CD13 said:

Seriously, could anyone talk me through a route to a second referendum which saw a narrow Remain victory and see us playing happily together afterwards.

I'd like to see a pause and try again at Brexit option:

Withdraw article 50 and commit not to invoke again at least until end of 2024 budget cycle
Seek dual membership of both EU and EFTA with any associated dual costs.
Gradually transfer our EU undertakings to our EFTA membership.
Prepare the Irish border etc directly for the post transition / backstop state as envisioned by the current deal.
Once all ready but the button on A50 for our few residual remaining EU undertakings, which will be much simpler.
Once in EFTA only, use any additional EFTA FoM controls at our disposal
If, in the mean time, EU and EFTA relationship changes to a more genuine twin track EU, welcome that as a way out of the political integrationist track.

Not going to happen though.

old_labour said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

old_labour said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Sky reporting Gove has a genuine family problem today

Sarah Vine would be a problem for anybody.

If it is a genuine family issue that is an ill considered comment

Could be a "dental appointment".

A la John Major.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

At which point does Phillip May put his arm round her shoulders and say "come on love, time to stop"

I do not think you have learnt much about how much your comment will infuriate the ladies

1. I'm from Lancashire. Everyone is love
2. Were it the other way round it would have been Theresa putting her arm round HIS shoulders and saying "come on love".

In a marriage, sometimes its only your better half who can point out the futility of the destructive course of action you have set upon.

RochdalePioneers said:

If she is about to retire to run through fields of wheat what happens next? How quickly can the Tory MPs sift through the various cretins who want the job? How quickly can they put the final pair to the membership? What if the membership decide the pair put to them aren't batshit enough and write in Rees-Mogg on the ballot paper?

We'd probably get Peter Bone as leader.

Theo said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

Xenon said:

Why exactly hasn't the government been asking these questions already in the last two years?

Because the People's Vote was won by the Leave campaign on a platform of ending freedom of movement.

And we have a deal that gets what the public want in immigration while maintaining economic access.

Yes, exactly. It's the best of possible implementation of Brexit (and, tellingly, all the bits people are complaining and resigning about are temporary features of the withdrawal agreement, not the final relationship).

Still, we've been here before with Cameron's renegotiation. Ironically, the polling now seems to be turning back towards the realisation that remaining on those terms was better than anything else. It's a funny old world!

shiney2 said:

Just watched Tusk chortling on Sky.

Is it possible to re-target Trident on a single individual?

Anyone you havent blamed today

Its Tin Eared Tessie to blame GE2017

TheScreamingEagles said:

JohnO said:

For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

When you next bump into Dom Raab can you call him a ‘F*cking c*nt who deserves a red hot poker up his arse’ on my behalf please.

He's giving you what you want though - he's taking away the prospect of a deal. Short term pain for long term gain, remember, so his being the villain of the piece is for the greater good, surely.

Jonathan said:

JohnO said:

For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

She should be spending the afternoon talking to Starmer and be getting ready for the mother of all U turns. She does not have much time.

Ramsey McMay? .. that worked so well last time for the then Governing party.

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1063110582595919873

q: Who would you most trust to lead the country through Brexit?
Theresa May 31%
Jeremy Corbyn 25%
Jacob Rees-Mogg 18%
Boris Johnson 17%
Dominic Raab 10%

hmmm

kle4 said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

JohnO said:

For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

When you next bump into Dom Raab can you call him a ‘F*cking c*nt who deserves a red hot poker up his arse’ on my behalf please.

He's giving you what you want though - he's taking away the prospect of a deal. Short term pain for long term gain, remember, so his being the villain of the piece is for the greater good, surely.

Not whilst there is a viable respecting the referendum deal out there.

Beverley_C said:

Theo said:

Beverley_C said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1063018560811945984

It all might come to nothing, but I hugely enjoyed myself today watching the Brexit Delusion crumble. All we need now for the Tory Party to complete the first phase of its Phoenix-like rebirth is JRM or Ms Patel for leader and marching us into the WTO wilderness.

Actually, I am not sure a phoenix would recover from that conflagration....

May delivered a deal that showed Brexit was possible while maintaining economic access and controlling immigration. It was acceptable to 80% of people on here. The ERG, Labour and the SNP have united to screw the rest of us over.

Scum, scum, scum.

As a remainer, I hate to agree with the Brexit loons, but vassalage does sound very close to what the deal promises. I still believe we are better off in the EU compared to any other option available.

Brexit is complete nonsense unless we are willing to take a massive economic dislocation (and that would be complete madness)

Brexit is a curse, it has destroyed just about everyone who reached the top in the Tory Party in the last 25 years, Its victims include Major, Clarke, Cameron, Osborne, May, Davis, IDS, and Johnson. You could add Thatcher to that list though her downfall had other causes as well as her attitude to Europe. It has transformed Jeremy Corbyn from a ridiculed no-hoper to a likely future prime minister. It could yet destroy the Tory Party completely. And the impact on the UK economy and international standing has been serious, and could get much worse if we head for no deal.

Future historians will shake their heads and wonder how it all was allowed to happen.

Geoffrey Cox 34-55 in the Betfair next Tory leader market.

JohnO said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

JohnO said:

For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

When you next bump into Dom Raab can you call him a ‘F*cking c*nt who deserves a red hot poker up his arse’ on my behalf please.

Er, no.

Shame.

JohnO said:

For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

A u-turn is essential, yes. After the vote fails, not before. It gives too many people an out later, if a failure to secure a deal leads to chaos, if they point out they never actually got to vote on it.

The lectern has a white square where the crest would be.

It might just be to allow the broadcasters to white balance their cameras, and the crest is underneath

I've just talked up this site to my friends who wanted to know the best way to see hot tweets in real time. They always seem to get posted on here thanks to your good selves

Scott_P said:

The lectern has a white square where the crest would be.

It might just be to allow the broadcasters to white balance their cameras, and the crest is underneath

Tease.

Scott_P said:

The lectern has a white square where the crest would be.

It might just be to allow the broadcasters to white balance their cameras, and the crest is underneath

That's not the velcro where it is attached?

grabcocque said:

I bet what's under the white square is a photo of Dom Raab with the word TWAT scrawled on his forehead in permanent marker.

I assume they are waiting for the new EU-approved vassal-state crest.

CarlottaVance said:

Rory batting for the deal:

https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1063108089510019073

One of very few MPs to go up in my estimation today.

Richard_Nabavi said:

grabcocque said:

I bet what's under the white square is a photo of Dom Raab with the word TWAT scrawled on his forehead in permanent marker.

I assume they are waiting for the new EU-approved vassal-state seal.

You're on particularly excellent form today.

Jonathan said:

TGOHF said:

Jonathan said:

then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties.

They have already told her to do one.

But if May survives a VONC she is safe as Tory leader for 12 months. She can treat the ERG as another party. They aren't really proper Conservatives anyway.

So the sane Tory plan should be to back May, win the VONC and swing hard to a centrist plan that gives enough to other parties with a referendum with Remain as option if required.

I can endorse your last paragraph

JohnO said:

Richard_Nabavi said:

grabcocque said:

I bet what's under the white square is a photo of Dom Raab with the word TWAT scrawled on his forehead in permanent marker.

I assume they are waiting for the new EU-approved vassal-state seal.

You're on particularly excellent form today.

Thanks, but there's plenty of material!

https://twitter.com/election_data/status/1063111334424928256

Theo said:

Jonathan said:

Actually the choreography of this is not impossible for May. She needs to survive the VONC, then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties. Mogg and the crazy gang cannot touch her after that. They are history and can be safely ignored. Let them form another party if they must.

So she should be getting ready for short swift VONC and getting those votes from the sane Tories.

The other parties that have been completely irresponsible in trying to support a deal?

May's best chance is to make a direct argument to the British people, pointing out how this deal gets all the best bits of Remain and Leave, and ridicule the claims about vassalage.

THAT's her best chance? Oh she's really screwed

Jonathan said:

TGOHF said:

Jonathan said:

then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties.

They have already told her to do one.

But if May survives a VONC she is safe as Tory leader for 12 months. She can treat the ERG as another party. They aren't really proper Conservatives anyway.

So the sane Tory plan should be to back May, win the VONC and swing hard to a centrist plan that gives enough to other parties with a referendum with Remain as option if required.

Fully agree. The ERG have really overplayed their hand....

Andrew said:

CarlottaVance said:

Rory batting for the deal:

https://twitter.com/RoryStewartUK/status/1063108089510019073

One of very few MPs to go up in my estimation today.

His manner with a hostile panel on Victoria Derbyshire was very creditable.

I wish those "people's vote" types would bugger off.

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Jonathan said:

TGOHF said:

Jonathan said:

then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties.

They have already told her to do one.

But if May survives a VONC she is safe as Tory leader for 12 months. She can treat the ERG as another party. They aren't really proper Conservatives anyway.

So the sane Tory plan should be to back May, win the VONC and swing hard to a centrist plan that gives enough to other parties with a referendum with Remain as option if required.

I can endorse your last paragraph

But May won't do that. If they want that, they'd have to ditch her. Though not sure how they'd get a replacement who would do that either

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Lecturn has the crest

You can have a nice cup of tea now.

OldKingCole said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

RochdalePioneers said:

At which point does Phillip May put his arm round her shoulders and say "come on love, time to stop"

I do not think you have learnt much about how much your comment will infuriate the ladies

1. I'm from Lancashire. Everyone is love
2. Were it the other way round it would have been Theresa putting her arm round HIS shoulders and saying "come on love".

In a marriage, sometimes its only your better half who can point out the futility of the destructive course of action you have set upon.

I was born in Whitefield but still respect the ladies

Sorry Mr G, as one who is married to a Lancastrian, indeed a Rochdalian, I think Mr P is right, If they were from the North East it would be 'pet'.

I do agree to an extent but not if my wife was PM

Crestfallen

SandyRentool said:

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Lecturn has the crest

#Crestgate no more.

Crestfallen

MarqueeMark said:

kle4 said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1063110582595919873

No one's commenting on it because it doesn't matter. The good bits don't matter, only the bad bits and the naiive assumption that things could be better very quickly.

But the bad bits are so bad as to make it unacceptable.

If I had negotiated a deal for two years that was utterly vital for the company's future, that included clauses I knew full well that the Board could never accept, I would not expect to be in employment.

If the deal is vital for the comany's future, then it follows that if the Board rejects it the company has no future.

MarqueeMark said:

kle4 said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1063110582595919873

No one's commenting on it because it doesn't matter. The good bits don't matter, only the bad bits and the naiive assumption that things could be better very quickly.

But the bad bits are so bad as to make it unacceptable.

If I had negotiated a deal for two years that was utterly vital for the company's future, that included clauses I knew full well that the Board could never accept, I would not expect to be in employment.

Yeah this "haven't read it" line is very weird. What exactly is this secret small print that is going to change everyone's mind after they hear the main points? I've never heard anyone apply this standard to other legislation.

https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1063112136778571777

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1063111871631450112

MarqueeMark said:

kle4 said:

CarlottaVance said:

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1063110582595919873

No one's commenting on it because it doesn't matter. The good bits don't matter, only the bad bits and the naiive assumption that things could be better very quickly.

But the bad bits are so bad as to make it unacceptable.

If I had negotiated a deal for two years that was utterly vital for the company's future, that included clauses I knew full well that the Board could never accept, I would not expect to be in employment.

Whereas the real problem in such a circumstance would clearly be the Board.

tottenhamWC said:

Jonathan said:

TGOHF said:

Jonathan said:

then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties.

They have already told her to do one.

But if May survives a VONC she is safe as Tory leader for 12 months. She can treat the ERG as another party. They aren't really proper Conservatives anyway.

So the sane Tory plan should be to back May, win the VONC and swing hard to a centrist plan that gives enough to other parties with a referendum with Remain as option if required.

Fully agree. The ERG have really overplayed their hand....

The problem is that by overplaying their hand, they're taking down Brexit and the Conservative Party along with them.