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  • Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    BBC just showed a live shot of the podium at No10 for the presser.

    It did not appear to have the PM seal on it...

    Some official spots this and thinks "Oh shit, I forgot the crest" while the markets go nuts...
    What does "no crest" mean ?
    Party political
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    At which point does Phillip May put his arm round her shoulders and say "come on love, time to stop"

    What on earth is she doing while he is saying that?
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 3,911
    Theo said:

    Theo said:

    It all might come to nothing, but I hugely enjoyed myself today watching the Brexit Delusion crumble. All we need now for the Tory Party to complete the first phase of its Phoenix-like rebirth is JRM or Ms Patel for leader and marching us into the WTO wilderness.

    Actually, I am not sure a phoenix would recover from that conflagration....
    May delivered a deal that showed Brexit was possible while maintaining economic access and controlling immigration. It was acceptable to 80% of people on here. The ERG, Labour and the SNP have united to screw the rest of us over.

    Scum, scum, scum.
    As a remainer, I hate to agree with the Brexit loons, but vassalage does sound very close to what the deal promises. I still believe we are better off in the EU compared to any other option available.

    Brexit is complete nonsense unless we are willing to take a massive economic dislocation (and that would be complete madness)
    Only idiots would describe this as vassalage. We regain control over 80% of our economy, immigration and plenty else.

    But no one cares about the actual facts. People just care about pushing silly analogies and talking points so they can be self righteous over the other lot.

    My country has become full of self indulgent puerile t***s. Any sense of doing the right thing, dealing with practical realities, making measured necessary compromises has gone. I am ashamed to be British right now.
    Completely agree. The deal would give us back control over some but not all of the economy and 100% control over immigration . Which is a pretty satisfactory outcome that reflects. The result of the referendum.

    Most importantly of all it would keep us out of all the barmy further integration projects like the EU army Merkel and Macron have been pushing for this week.

    It's a good deal. Is it the best deal? No. Is it better than no deal, car crash Brexit? Yes. Is it better than ever closer union? Undoubtedly.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    kle4 said:

    Scott_P said:

    BBC just showed a live shot of the podium at No10 for the presser.

    It did not appear to have the PM seal on it...

    I would question if she has the authority to call a GE.
    Nothing stops her from call for one, but no she cannot just call one.
    Remember what happened last time? She moved a motion to dissolve and dared Labour to vote it down, they duly supported it.

    This time, it's Labour policy. If she wanted an election she could have one within the hour.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,842

    At which point does Phillip May put his arm round her shoulders and say "come on love, time to stop"

    I think the important consideration is have the DUP pulled support from TM but not the Tory Govt led by somebody else. This would cause a lot of Tory MP's to have a good think.
    Bullied by the EU and bullied by the DUP.
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,721
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    BBC just showed a live shot of the podium at No10 for the presser.

    It did not appear to have the PM seal on it...

    Some official spots this and thinks "Oh shit, I forgot the crest" while the markets go nuts...
    What does "no crest" mean ?
    In theory it means that she is likely to be speaking as Leader of the Conservative Party, rather than as Prime Minister of HM Government.

    (Makes it more likely to be VONC / Resignation)
  • Scott_P said:

    BBC just showed a live shot of the podium at No10 for the presser.

    It did not appear to have the PM seal on it...

    I would question if she has the authority to call a GE.
    She doesn't. There has to be a vote in parliament.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    BBC just showed a live shot of the podium at No10 for the presser.

    It did not appear to have the PM seal on it...

    Some official spots this and thinks "Oh shit, I forgot the crest" while the markets go nuts...
    What does "no crest" mean ?
    Her statement is not from the office of PM (i.e. it's a political announcement - like a general election).
  • CD13CD13 Posts: 6,349
    I find the fact that the EU is predictably playing hardball (as I have always predicted) a reason to leave in itself. If we 'bend the knee' now, you will see an acceleration towards a European state.

    To be clear, the EU has every right to do this, and their UK supporters every right to cheer it on, but I just wish there was honesty about it.
  • welshowlwelshowl Posts: 4,460
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    BBC just showed a live shot of the podium at No10 for the presser.

    It did not appear to have the PM seal on it...

    Some official spots this and thinks "Oh shit, I forgot the crest" while the markets go nuts...
    What does "no crest" mean ?
    You need the crest to announce an election - according to R4 yesterday.
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    Theo said:

    It all might come to nothing, but I hugely enjoyed myself today watching the Brexit Delusion crumble. All we need now for the Tory Party to complete the first phase of its Phoenix-like rebirth is JRM or Ms Patel for leader and marching us into the WTO wilderness.

    Actually, I am not sure a phoenix would recover from that conflagration....
    May delivered a deal that showed Brexit was possible while maintaining economic access and controlling immigration. It was acceptable to 80% of people on here. The ERG, Labour and the SNP have united to screw the rest of us over.

    Scum, scum, scum.
    As a remainer, I hate to agree with the Brexit loons, but vassalage does sound very close to what the deal promises. I still believe we are better off in the EU compared to any other option available.

    Brexit is complete nonsense unless we are willing to take a massive economic dislocation (and that would be complete madness)
    I'm a remainer too, and I agree it could be seen as vassalage. But like the Irish Treaty of 1922, it offers a route for the leavers to move to what they want, if they're willing to play the long game and work for it. But no, like the Anti-Treaty IRA they'd rather burn everything down in the hope they'd preside over the ruins.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    tlg86 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    BBC just showed a live shot of the podium at No10 for the presser.

    It did not appear to have the PM seal on it...

    Some official spots this and thinks "Oh shit, I forgot the crest" while the markets go nuts...
    What does "no crest" mean ?
    Her statement is not from the office of PM (i.e. it's a political announcement - like a general election).
    :eyes:
  • Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Theo said:

    My country has become full of self indulgent puerile t***s. Any sense of doing the right thing, dealing with practical realities, making measured necessary compromises has gone. I am ashamed to be British right now.

    I have felt that way for two years....
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,785
    CD13 said:

    Seriously, could anyone talk me through a route to a second referendum which saw a narrow Remain victory and see us playing happily together afterwards.

    I'd like to see a pause and try again at Brexit option:

    Withdraw article 50 and commit not to invoke again at least until end of 2024 budget cycle
    Seek dual membership of both EU and EFTA with any associated dual costs.
    Gradually transfer our EU undertakings to our EFTA membership.
    Prepare the Irish border etc directly for the post transition / backstop state as envisioned by the current deal.
    Once all ready but the button on A50 for our few residual remaining EU undertakings, which will be much simpler.
    Once in EFTA only, use any additional EFTA FoM controls at our disposal
    If, in the mean time, EU and EFTA relationship changes to a more genuine twin track EU, welcome that as a way out of the political integrationist track.

    Not going to happen though.
  • BromBrom Posts: 3,760
    kyf_100 said:

    Theo said:

    Theo said:

    It all might come to nothing, but I hugely enjoyed myself today watching the Brexit Delusion crumble. All we need now for the Tory Party to complete the first phase of its Phoenix-like rebirth is JRM or Ms Patel for leader and marching us into the WTO wilderness.

    Actually, I am not sure a phoenix would recover from that conflagration....
    May delivered a deal that showed Brexit was possible while maintaining economic access and controlling immigration. It was acceptable to 80% of people on here. The ERG, Labour and the SNP have united to screw the rest of us over.

    Scum, scum, scum.
    As a remainer, I hate to agree with the Brexit loons, but vassalage does sound very close to what the deal promises. I still believe we are better off in the EU compared to any other option available.

    Brexit is complete nonsense unless we are willing to take a massive economic dislocation (and that would be complete madness)
    Only idiots would describe this as vassalage. We regain control over 80% of our economy, immigration and plenty else.

    But no one cares about the actual facts. People just care about pushing silly analogies and talking points so they can be self righteous over the other lot.

    My country has become full of self indulgent puerile t***s. Any sense of doing the right thing, dealing with practical realities, making measured necessary compromises has gone. I am ashamed to be British right now.
    Completely agree. The deal would give us back control over some but not all of the economy and 100% control over immigration . Which is a pretty satisfactory outcome that reflects. The result of the referendum.

    Most importantly of all it would keep us out of all the barmy further integration projects like the EU army Merkel and Macron have been pushing for this week.

    It's a good deal. Is it the best deal? No. Is it better than no deal, car crash Brexit? Yes. Is it better than ever closer union? Undoubtedly.
    This is the PB position. It's a shame the general public are so out of touch with us :)
  • Sky reporting Gove has a genuine family problem today

    Sarah Vine would be a problem for anybody.
    If it is a genuine family issue that is an ill considered comment
    Could be a "dental appointment".
    A la John Major.
  • Sky reporting Gove has a genuine family problem today

    Sarah Vine would be a problem for anybody.
    If it is a genuine family issue that is an ill considered comment
    Could be a "dental appointment".
    I do not know but a dental appointment is unlikely to be a family matter.

    Why not give him the benefit of doubt
  • At which point does Phillip May put his arm round her shoulders and say "come on love, time to stop"

    I do not think you have learnt much about how much your comment will infuriate the ladies
    1. I'm from Lancashire. Everyone is love
    2. Were it the other way round it would have been Theresa putting her arm round HIS shoulders and saying "come on love".

    In a marriage, sometimes its only your better half who can point out the futility of the destructive course of action you have set upon.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited November 2018

    At which point does Phillip May put his arm round her shoulders and say "come on love, time to stop"

    I think the important consideration is have the DUP pulled support from TM but not the Tory Govt led by somebody else. This would cause a lot of Tory MP's to have a good think.
    The good of the country comes before the good of the party - if any MP thought the deal is the best we can do then the prospect of losing the support of the DUP and the government falling is the price they would have to pay, or indeed for a Labour MP the chance the government gets to continue (though how it would I don't see given the DUP would not support it) would be the price.

    If they didn't like the deal then the DUP's threat is irrelevant anyway.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,774

    If she is about to retire to run through fields of wheat what happens next? How quickly can the Tory MPs sift through the various cretins who want the job? How quickly can they put the final pair to the membership? What if the membership decide the pair put to them aren't batshit enough and write in Rees-Mogg on the ballot paper?

    We'd probably get Peter Bone as leader.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    Actually the choreography of this is not impossible for May. She needs to survive the VONC, then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties. Mogg and the crazy gang cannot touch her after that. They are history and can be safely ignored. Let them form another party if they must.

    So she should be getting ready for short swift VONC and getting those votes from the sane Tories.
  • Theo said:

    Xenon said:

    Why exactly hasn't the government been asking these questions already in the last two years?

    Because the People's Vote was won by the Leave campaign on a platform of ending freedom of movement.
    And we have a deal that gets what the public want in immigration while maintaining economic access.
    Yes, exactly. It's the best of possible implementation of Brexit (and, tellingly, all the bits people are complaining and resigning about are temporary features of the withdrawal agreement, not the final relationship).

    Still, we've been here before with Cameron's renegotiation. Ironically, the polling now seems to be turning back towards the realisation that remaining on those terms was better than anything else. It's a funny old world!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,165
    welshowl said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_P said:

    BBC just showed a live shot of the podium at No10 for the presser.

    It did not appear to have the PM seal on it...

    Some official spots this and thinks "Oh shit, I forgot the crest" while the markets go nuts...
    What does "no crest" mean ?
    You need the crest to announce an election - according to R4 yesterday.
    Other way around surely? There was no crest when she called the election last year.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    It means whatever May is talking about is going to be party political business, not government business.
  • JohnO said:

    For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

    I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

    When you next bump into Dom Raab can you call him a ‘F*cking c*nt who deserves a red hot poker up his arse’ on my behalf please.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 21,725
    shiney2 said:

    Just watched Tusk chortling on Sky.

    Is it possible to re-target Trident on a single individual?

    Anyone you havent blamed today

    Its Tin Eared Tessie to blame GE2017
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Sky reporting Gove has a genuine family problem today

    Sarah Vine would be a problem for anybody.
    If it is a genuine family issue that is an ill considered comment
    Could be a "dental appointment".
    A la John Major.
    Yep.
  • TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Jonathan said:

    then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties.

    They have already told her to do one.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,777
    Gove edging towards favourite in the next Tory leader market.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    Sean_F said:

    Pulpstar said:

    murali_s said:

    32% support an option that isn't deliverable. If they are presented with a forced choice between Remain and the deal, you'd end up with Remain winning by around 65/35.

    Twisting a poll is a disingenious. It is 54 -32 - 14.

    You cannot ignore the 46 who do not want remain
    Some of the 14% should break for Remain if it became a binary choice though. This poll looks to me as a *big* swing to remain.
    Probably around a third or so ?

    Perhaps 57-43 to remain maybe. The ERG are doing spectacular damage to the leave cause today.
    That seems to be their intention.
    There is no more comfortable position for has-beens than to be able to whinge and snipe from the sidelines year after year. They would be back in their comfort zone.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Sky reporting Gove has a genuine family problem today

    Sarah Vine would be a problem for anybody.
    If it is a genuine family issue that is an ill considered comment
    Could be a "dental appointment".
    I do not know but a dental appointment is unlikely to be a family matter.

    Why not give him the benefit of doubt
    That worked well for Boris.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited November 2018

    JohnO said:

    For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

    I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

    When you next bump into Dom Raab can you call him a ‘F*cking c*nt who deserves a red hot poker up his arse’ on my behalf please.
    He's giving you what you want though - he's taking away the prospect of a deal. Short term pain for long term gain, remember, so his being the villain of the piece is for the greater good, surely.
  • Ssssh, Theresa.

    Sleep now.

    I hope that comment is not what I think it is

  • shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    Jonathan said:

    JohnO said:

    For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

    I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

    She should be spending the afternoon talking to Starmer and be getting ready for the mother of all U turns. She does not have much time.
    Ramsey McMay? .. that worked so well last time for the then Governing party.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,211

    JohnO said:

    For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

    I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

    When you next bump into Dom Raab can you call him a ‘F*cking c*nt who deserves a red hot poker up his arse’ on my behalf please.
    Er, no.
  • q: Who would you most trust to lead the country through Brexit?
    Theresa May 31%
    Jeremy Corbyn 25%
    Jacob Rees-Mogg 18%
    Boris Johnson 17%
    Dominic Raab 10%

    hmmm
  • JohnO said:

    For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

    I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

    When you next bump into Dom Raab can you call him a ‘F*cking c*nt who deserves a red hot poker up his arse’ on my behalf please.
    Get in the queue.....
  • kle4 said:

    JohnO said:

    For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

    I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

    When you next bump into Dom Raab can you call him a ‘F*cking c*nt who deserves a red hot poker up his arse’ on my behalf please.
    He's giving you what you want though - he's taking away the prospect of a deal. Short term pain for long term gain, remember, so his being the villain of the piece is for the greater good, surely.
    Not whilst there is a viable respecting the referendum deal out there.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Scott_P said:
    The people have spoken; let the people speak.
    Sky news have spoken,I wouldn't trust that media organization with any reporting on brexit.
    I think Yougov had a similar result ?
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,547

    Theo said:

    It all might come to nothing, but I hugely enjoyed myself today watching the Brexit Delusion crumble. All we need now for the Tory Party to complete the first phase of its Phoenix-like rebirth is JRM or Ms Patel for leader and marching us into the WTO wilderness.

    Actually, I am not sure a phoenix would recover from that conflagration....
    May delivered a deal that showed Brexit was possible while maintaining economic access and controlling immigration. It was acceptable to 80% of people on here. The ERG, Labour and the SNP have united to screw the rest of us over.

    Scum, scum, scum.
    As a remainer, I hate to agree with the Brexit loons, but vassalage does sound very close to what the deal promises. I still believe we are better off in the EU compared to any other option available.

    Brexit is complete nonsense unless we are willing to take a massive economic dislocation (and that would be complete madness)
    Brexit is a curse, it has destroyed just about everyone who reached the top in the Tory Party in the last 25 years, Its victims include Major, Clarke, Cameron, Osborne, May, Davis, IDS, and Johnson. You could add Thatcher to that list though her downfall had other causes as well as her attitude to Europe. It has transformed Jeremy Corbyn from a ridiculed no-hoper to a likely future prime minister. It could yet destroy the Tory Party completely. And the impact on the UK economy and international standing has been serious, and could get much worse if we head for no deal.

    Future historians will shake their heads and wonder how it all was allowed to happen.
  • Get ready Brenda......
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,777
    Geoffrey Cox 34-55 in the Betfair next Tory leader market.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties.

    They have already told her to do one.
    But if May survives a VONC she is safe as Tory leader for 12 months. She can treat the ERG as another party. They aren't really proper Conservatives anyway.

    So the sane Tory plan should be to back May, win the VONC and swing hard to a centrist plan that gives enough to other parties with a referendum with Remain as option if required.
  • TheoTheo Posts: 325
    Jonathan said:

    Actually the choreography of this is not impossible for May. She needs to survive the VONC, then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties. Mogg and the crazy gang cannot touch her after that. They are history and can be safely ignored. Let them form another party if they must.

    So she should be getting ready for short swift VONC and getting those votes from the sane Tories.

    The other parties that have been completely irresponsible in trying to support a deal?

    May's best chance is to make a direct argument to the British people, pointing out how this deal gets all the best bits of Remain and Leave, and ridicule the claims about vassalage.
  • JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

    I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

    When you next bump into Dom Raab can you call him a ‘F*cking c*nt who deserves a red hot poker up his arse’ on my behalf please.
    Er, no.
    Shame.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 61,584
    JohnO said:

    JohnO said:

    For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

    I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

    When you next bump into Dom Raab can you call him a ‘F*cking c*nt who deserves a red hot poker up his arse’ on my behalf please.
    Er, no.
    After all, he is a black belt...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    JohnO said:

    For those of us who would support for May in the confidence vote (and the chances must still be that she will prevail) but accept the inevitability that her Deal will not pass the Commons, what then? Presumably, she goes back to the EU in the hope of better terms but that seems a remote possibility (or is it?); then how can there be any other outcome than No Deal with all that entails, unless she does indeed do the Mummy of All U turns and legislates for a referendum.

    I was going to write that there is no way the govt would give up the ghost and face annihilation at a snap election. But then this is my party we're discussing.

    A u-turn is essential, yes. After the vote fails, not before. It gives too many people an out later, if a failure to secure a deal leads to chaos, if they point out they never actually got to vote on it.
  • Surely a VONC is also a party political matter?
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    The lectern has a white square where the crest would be.

    It might just be to allow the broadcasters to white balance their cameras, and the crest is underneath
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Jeremy might be tidying up his allotment as this is all going on. :lol:
  • I've just talked up this site to my friends who wanted to know the best way to see hot tweets in real time. They always seem to get posted on here thanks to your good selves
  • At which point does Phillip May put his arm round her shoulders and say "come on love, time to stop"

    I do not think you have learnt much about how much your comment will infuriate the ladies
    1. I'm from Lancashire. Everyone is love
    2. Were it the other way round it would have been Theresa putting her arm round HIS shoulders and saying "come on love".

    In a marriage, sometimes its only your better half who can point out the futility of the destructive course of action you have set upon.
    I was born in Whitefield but still respect the ladies
  • Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Scott_P said:

    The lectern has a white square where the crest would be.

    It might just be to allow the broadcasters to white balance their cameras, and the crest is underneath

    Tease.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    I bet what's under the white square is a photo of Dom Raab with the word TWAT scrawled on his forehead in permanent marker.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 58,941
    Scott_P said:

    The lectern has a white square where the crest would be.

    It might just be to allow the broadcasters to white balance their cameras, and the crest is underneath

    That's not the velcro where it is attached? :p
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 91,408
    edited November 2018
    No one's commenting on it because it doesn't matter. The good bits don't matter, only the bad bits and the naiive assumption that things could be better very quickly.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited November 2018

    I bet what's under the white square is a photo of Dom Raab with the word TWAT scrawled on his forehead in permanent marker.

    I assume they are waiting for the new EU-approved vassal-state crest.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Paddy Power makes it 4/9 that TMay will be replaced as Tory leader this year.
  • AndrewAndrew Posts: 2,900


    One of very few MPs to go up in my estimation today.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,722

    At which point does Phillip May put his arm round her shoulders and say "come on love, time to stop"

    I do not think you have learnt much about how much your comment will infuriate the ladies
    1. I'm from Lancashire. Everyone is love
    2. Were it the other way round it would have been Theresa putting her arm round HIS shoulders and saying "come on love".

    In a marriage, sometimes its only your better half who can point out the futility of the destructive course of action you have set upon.
    I was born in Whitefield but still respect the ladies
    Sorry Mr G, as one who is married to a Lancastrian, indeed a Rochdalian, I think Mr P is right, If they were from the North East it would be 'pet'.
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,211

    I bet what's under the white square is a photo of Dom Raab with the word TWAT scrawled on his forehead in permanent marker.

    I assume they are waiting for the new EU-approved vassal-state seal.
    You're on particularly excellent form today.
  • Paddy Power makes it 4/9 that TMay will be replaced as Tory leader this year.

    she's 1.66 BF
  • Jonathan said:

    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties.

    They have already told her to do one.
    But if May survives a VONC she is safe as Tory leader for 12 months. She can treat the ERG as another party. They aren't really proper Conservatives anyway.

    So the sane Tory plan should be to back May, win the VONC and swing hard to a centrist plan that gives enough to other parties with a referendum with Remain as option if required.
    I can endorse your last paragraph
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234

    I bet what's under the white square is a photo of Dom Raab with the word TWAT scrawled on his forehead in permanent marker.

    I assume they are waiting for the new EU-approved vassal-state crest.
    actual lol

  • JohnO said:

    I bet what's under the white square is a photo of Dom Raab with the word TWAT scrawled on his forehead in permanent marker.

    I assume they are waiting for the new EU-approved vassal-state seal.
    You're on particularly excellent form today.
    Thanks, but there's plenty of material!
  • At which point does Phillip May put his arm round her shoulders and say "come on love, time to stop"

    I do not think you have learnt much about how much your comment will infuriate the ladies
    1. I'm from Lancashire. Everyone is love
    2. Were it the other way round it would have been Theresa putting her arm round HIS shoulders and saying "come on love".

    In a marriage, sometimes its only your better half who can point out the futility of the destructive course of action you have set upon.
    I was born in Whitefield but still respect the ladies
    I practice equality. I call my brother Love
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    Ed Conway (@EdConwaySky)

    Second @Skydata poll q: Would you support or oppose a referendum choosing between the draft Brexit deal proposed by Theresa May, Brexit without a deal, or remaining in the EU?
    Strongly support 44%
    Tend to support 11%
    Tend to oppose 7%
    Strongly oppose 28%
    Don’t know 10%
    November 15, 2018

  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092
    Theo said:

    Jonathan said:

    Actually the choreography of this is not impossible for May. She needs to survive the VONC, then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties. Mogg and the crazy gang cannot touch her after that. They are history and can be safely ignored. Let them form another party if they must.

    So she should be getting ready for short swift VONC and getting those votes from the sane Tories.

    The other parties that have been completely irresponsible in trying to support a deal?

    May's best chance is to make a direct argument to the British people, pointing out how this deal gets all the best bits of Remain and Leave, and ridicule the claims about vassalage.
    THAT's her best chance? Oh she's really screwed
  • tpfkartpfkar Posts: 1,545
    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties.

    They have already told her to do one.
    But if May survives a VONC she is safe as Tory leader for 12 months. She can treat the ERG as another party. They aren't really proper Conservatives anyway.

    So the sane Tory plan should be to back May, win the VONC and swing hard to a centrist plan that gives enough to other parties with a referendum with Remain as option if required.
    That sounds like the makings of a deal, possibly with a policy win for Labour - big changes to Universal Credit for example?
  • Jonathan said:

    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties.

    They have already told her to do one.
    But if May survives a VONC she is safe as Tory leader for 12 months. She can treat the ERG as another party. They aren't really proper Conservatives anyway.

    So the sane Tory plan should be to back May, win the VONC and swing hard to a centrist plan that gives enough to other parties with a referendum with Remain as option if required.
    Fully agree. The ERG have really overplayed their hand....
  • Lecturn has the crest
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,785
    Andrew said:



    One of very few MPs to go up in my estimation today.
    His manner with a hostile panel on Victoria Derbyshire was very creditable.
  • grabcocquegrabcocque Posts: 4,234
    "Nothing has changed"
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238
    I wish those "people's vote" types would bugger off.
  • Lecturn has the crest

    Phew
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties.

    They have already told her to do one.
    But if May survives a VONC she is safe as Tory leader for 12 months. She can treat the ERG as another party. They aren't really proper Conservatives anyway.

    So the sane Tory plan should be to back May, win the VONC and swing hard to a centrist plan that gives enough to other parties with a referendum with Remain as option if required.
    I can endorse your last paragraph
    But May won't do that. If they want that, they'd have to ditch her. Though not sure how they'd get a replacement who would do that either
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    edited November 2018
    kle4 said:

    No one's commenting on it because it doesn't matter. The good bits don't matter, only the bad bits and the naiive assumption that things could be better very quickly.
    But the bad bits are so bad as to make it unacceptable.

    If I had negotiated a deal for two years that was utterly vital for the company's future, that included clauses I knew full well that the Board could never accept, I would not expect to be in employment.
  • old_labourold_labour Posts: 3,238

    Lecturn has the crest

    You can have a nice cup of tea now.
  • Its OK Brenda, stand down....
  • At which point does Phillip May put his arm round her shoulders and say "come on love, time to stop"

    I do not think you have learnt much about how much your comment will infuriate the ladies
    1. I'm from Lancashire. Everyone is love
    2. Were it the other way round it would have been Theresa putting her arm round HIS shoulders and saying "come on love".

    In a marriage, sometimes its only your better half who can point out the futility of the destructive course of action you have set upon.
    I was born in Whitefield but still respect the ladies
    Sorry Mr G, as one who is married to a Lancastrian, indeed a Rochdalian, I think Mr P is right, If they were from the North East it would be 'pet'.
    I do agree to an extent but not if my wife was PM
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,404

    Lecturn has the crest

    #Crestgate no more.
  • stjohnstjohn Posts: 1,777
    Crestfallen

    Lecturn has the crest

    #Crestgate no more.
    Crestfallen
  • Theo said:

    Jonathan said:

    Actually the choreography of this is not impossible for May. She needs to survive the VONC, then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties. Mogg and the crazy gang cannot touch her after that. They are history and can be safely ignored. Let them form another party if they must.

    So she should be getting ready for short swift VONC and getting those votes from the sane Tories.

    The other parties that have been completely irresponsible in trying to support a deal?

    May's best chance is to make a direct argument to the British people, pointing out how this deal gets all the best bits of Remain and Leave, and ridicule the claims about vassalage.
    If the British people see the possibility of parliament approving / moving forward with a centrist proposal and moving beyond this; suspect their support will follow.....
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    kle4 said:

    No one's commenting on it because it doesn't matter. The good bits don't matter, only the bad bits and the naiive assumption that things could be better very quickly.
    But the bad bits are so bad as to make it unacceptable.

    If I had negotiated a deal for two years that was utterly vital for the company's future, that included clauses I knew full well that the Board could never accept, I would not expect to be in employment.
    If the deal is vital for the comany's future, then it follows that if the Board rejects it the company has no future.
  • Rydw i a @NicolaSturgeon wedi anfon llythyr ar y cyd at y Prif Weinidog yn galw am gyfarfod brys o'r Cyd-bwyllgor Gweinidogion

    Don't worry John Redwood can translate for the hard Brexiteers
  • StereotomyStereotomy Posts: 4,092

    kle4 said:

    No one's commenting on it because it doesn't matter. The good bits don't matter, only the bad bits and the naiive assumption that things could be better very quickly.
    But the bad bits are so bad as to make it unacceptable.

    If I had negotiated a deal for two years that was utterly vital for the company's future, that included clauses I knew full well that the Board could never accept, I would not expect to be in employment.
    Yeah this "haven't read it" line is very weird. What exactly is this secret small print that is going to change everyone's mind after they hear the main points? I've never heard anyone apply this standard to other legislation.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094
    Nice use of the word "different" in the lead, as if 48 letters from Mr Mogg might otherwise count.

    She will survive the vote; the only question is whether by a clear margin, or as damaged goods like Mrs T in her first round against Heseltine.
  • TheoTheo Posts: 325
    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties.

    They have already told her to do one.
    But if May survives a VONC she is safe as Tory leader for 12 months. She can treat the ERG as another party. They aren't really proper Conservatives anyway.

    So the sane Tory plan should be to back May, win the VONC and swing hard to a centrist plan that gives enough to other parties with a referendum with Remain as option if required.
    What changes do the other parties want to the Brexit deal?
  • Right, just got in from work - everyone's resigned and everything's a shambles, but Gove's been offered DExEU?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,094

    kle4 said:

    No one's commenting on it because it doesn't matter. The good bits don't matter, only the bad bits and the naiive assumption that things could be better very quickly.
    But the bad bits are so bad as to make it unacceptable.

    If I had negotiated a deal for two years that was utterly vital for the company's future, that included clauses I knew full well that the Board could never accept, I would not expect to be in employment.
    Whereas the real problem in such a circumstance would clearly be the Board.
  • Could the Beeb have postponed the weather just this once....?
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,774

    Jonathan said:

    TGOHF said:

    Jonathan said:

    then she is free to ditch the ERG completely and come up with a plan with other parties.

    They have already told her to do one.
    But if May survives a VONC she is safe as Tory leader for 12 months. She can treat the ERG as another party. They aren't really proper Conservatives anyway.

    So the sane Tory plan should be to back May, win the VONC and swing hard to a centrist plan that gives enough to other parties with a referendum with Remain as option if required.
    Fully agree. The ERG have really overplayed their hand....
    The problem is that by overplaying their hand, they're taking down Brexit and the Conservative Party along with them.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 49,961
    rpjs said:

    kle4 said:

    No one's commenting on it because it doesn't matter. The good bits don't matter, only the bad bits and the naiive assumption that things could be better very quickly.
    But the bad bits are so bad as to make it unacceptable.

    If I had negotiated a deal for two years that was utterly vital for the company's future, that included clauses I knew full well that the Board could never accept, I would not expect to be in employment.
    If the deal is vital for the comany's future, then it follows that if the Board rejects it the company has no future.
    It follows I have no future with the company. Somebody else has to get the deal.
This discussion has been closed.