Honestly I can't imagine what else she could conceivably be calling a presser for today unless it's to announce the jig is up.
I suppose she could be pre-announcing a Bring It On for a VONC, but that would be a reckless move even for her.
Must be possible that she knows the no confidence vote is being called, and she's making a statement explaining why she is contesting it? She's really no quitter.
Isn't it just the press conference she was going to hold yesterday before Parliament complained about being told about the deal first and the Cabinet meeting overran?
I expect most of the questions will be about resignations and the bunch of Brady letters,.though.
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
They're not watching from the sidelines. They have actively opposed the agreement which is why May was having to rely on the ERG in the first place.
This is another thing that May has not addressed. If 48 reaches the party has to decide if it will stick with near through a possible election campaign - she has now lost the DUP. I think the sensible answer would be that she hasn’t really convinced since the last election, rather count on by the fingernails. A Tory voting to keep her would risk a proven election dud. Other possible leaders would have the benefit of either bing a clean skin, or successful electorally Like Boris.
She has lost the DUP on the Brexit deal. That doesn't mean the Tories have lost them overall - though they would if they were able to push the current deal through.
I think they will start to assert themselves by abstaining on votes to highlight their value
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
They're not watching from the sidelines. They have actively opposed the agreement which is why May was having to rely on the ERG in the first place.
May knew what our 6 tests were. She chose not to pursue a deal that meets them.
May's finished, isn't she? Who takes over? My vote is for Johnson. I'd like to see him owning this entirely. It would mean I'd have to vote Labour, but that is a small price to pay.
Can anyone explain why we can’t have a unilateral withdrawal from the Backstop? Apart from that the EU want to tie our hands.
At the moment the Irish protocol is a proper backstop, it can only be replaced by a long term partnership. In order words if the WA is signed there is never a third state, with a hard border in NI.
When you talk about unilaterally ending the backstop, you tend to mean unilaterally creating a hard border.
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
They're not watching from the sidelines. They have actively opposed the agreement which is why May was having to rely on the ERG in the first place.
May knew what our 6 tests were. She chose not to pursue a deal that meets them.
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
They're not watching from the sidelines. They have actively opposed the agreement which is why May was having to rely on the ERG in the first place.
Opposition opposes government, shock horror.
As long as they are prepared for the risks of opposing in this instance. If all they can fall back on is 'oppositions oppose' that is incredibly childish.
There are good reasons to oppose this deal, so long as the risks of not doing so are known and accepted, but blankly asserting that it is the job for oppositions to oppose, as though it is not still incumbent to take every vote on its merits (just as it is with any government party, hence while people rebel in the first place), is pathetic. Toddlers know better.
"You could probably buy the whole of Skeggy with that."
Nothing wrong with Skeg if you like a breeze.
But if it's one of my family in Boston, they'll hopefully use it for something better. I'll be watching out for unexpected spending on their part for the next month or so.
Edit: Perhaps it's God telling them he approves of full-fat Brexit? They won't need much telling.
There is no way she would survive a vote of no confidence. Even if she stood and won, so many Tory MPs would vote against her that she’d have to go because she’d have no consensus for any policy. She’s lost the DUP so she might also lose the budget. Her Brexit plan satisfies no one and she has entirely abdicated the entire domestic policy agenda to achieve a Brexit deal no one wants.
The question is whether or not there will be a vote of no confidence. So many MPs say they have written letters that it must be close to 300 now but Brady says he still hasn’t got 48 !
The only solution is the EEA to keep trade flowing. 52:48 is not a mandate for either no deal nor no Brexit.
My thinking in recent weeks has been that only Davis could sort out this always-impending clusterfuck within the timeframe of 29th March, by resurrecting the discussions he was having in a concertinad-timeframe. And with Olly Robbins given the boot.
It is still where I think we should be. He seemed to have built a rapport that was getting somewhere. That could yet pull folks together. I can't see anything else that might.
The EU will not reopen negotiations.
Not surprising given the attitude of the Brexiteers
The attitude of the Brexiteers that tells the EU "This deal will not pass the HoC - not just becausue of us, but because of Labour. The options are revisit limited aspects that are killing it - or it is a No Deal Brexit. It really is down to you..."
These Football Leaks expose stuff seems to be getting very little mainstream coverage, but some shocking stuff going on (if true). Modern day equivalent of cash in a brown paper bag stuff.
My thinking in recent weeks has been that only Davis could sort out this always-impending clusterfuck within the timeframe of 29th March, by resurrecting the discussions he was having in a concertinad-timeframe. And with Olly Robbins given the boot.
It is still where I think we should be. He seemed to have built a rapport that was getting somewhere. That could yet pull folks together. I can't see anything else that might.
The EU will not reopen negotiations.
Not surprising given the attitude of the Brexiteers
The attitude of the Brexiteers that tells the EU "This deal will not pass the HoC - not just becausue of us, but because of Labour. The options are revisit limited aspects that are killing it - or it is a No Deal Brexit. It really is down to you..."
First step is for the deal to actually be rejected. Why should the EU even consider adjusting things until they know how many MPs are prepared to accept this offer? Yes it shows our hand, but if we want them to reopen things they need a reason.
There is no way she would survive a vote of no confidence. Even if she stood and won, so many Tory MPs would vote against her that she’d have to go because she’d have no consensus for any policy. She’s lost the DUP so she might also lose the budget. Her Brexit plan satisfies no one and she has entirely abdicated the entire domestic policy agenda to achieve a Brexit deal no one wants.
The question is whether or not there will be a vote of no confidence. So many MPs say they have written letters that it must be close to 300 now but Brady says he still hasn’t got 48 !
The only solution is the EEA to keep trade flowing. 52:48 is not a mandate for either no deal nor no Brexit.
EEA on its own is not an option. It has to be EEA+CU in which case might as well Remain.
As a potential front-runner to replace May, he's probably thinking "shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit......."
And having discussions with the possible temporary leader about supporting his taking over for a couple of years.
Btw, where is David Davis today?
Probably nipped over to Berlin to get the deal sorted.
😉
Why would he need all day? We are already aligned with Germany and their car plants need us to survive. It should be the easiest deal in the world.....
One of the strangest things for me is that May has had two Brexit secretaries and has trusted neither to negotiate Brexit. I have sympathy for the leavers who have said that they have tried to engage. The view was always that she had leavers in key abrexit positions - trade is superceded by Withdrawal agreement, dexeu has been run de facto by Robbins and May - why the subterfuge? If she had said it was of such importance that she would negotiate herself then that would have been fine
Yet both Davis and Raab happily accepted this allegedly neutered rôle with nary a comment.
Davis appeared to be working on a deal that met the red lines whilst she was preparing something behind his back. I don’t support leave but these are not the actions of someone trustworthy.
My thinking in recent weeks has been that only Davis could sort out this always-impending clusterfuck within the timeframe of 29th March, by resurrecting the discussions he was having in a concertinad-timeframe. And with Olly Robbins given the boot.
It is still where I think we should be. He seemed to have built a rapport that was getting somewhere. That could yet pull folks together. I can't see anything else that might.
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
They're not watching from the sidelines. They have actively opposed the agreement which is why May was having to rely on the ERG in the first place.
Hang on. You've got the order wrong.
May relies on the ERG because she is leader of the Conservative party trying to lead a Conservative Minority govt and they are her Conservative MPs. The fact she can't do it alone is entirely a Conservative problem
Labour are in opposition. Their constitutional duty is to oppose. They have set out six test that this deal does not meet. They are under no obligation moral or otherwise to back it.
If May wants Labour votes or indeed non Conservative votes she should try to offer them something. Instead she is saying this is the best deal, do what you are told.
One of the strangest things for me is that May has had two Brexit secretaries and has trusted neither to negotiate Brexit. I have sympathy for the leavers who have said that they have tried to engage. The view was always that she had leavers in key abrexit positions - trade is superceded by Withdrawal agreement, dexeu has been run de facto by Robbins and May - why the subterfuge? If she had said it was of such importance that she would negotiate herself then that would have been fine
Yet both Davis and Raab happily accepted this allegedly neutered rôle with nary a comment.
Davis appeared to be working on a deal that met the red lines whilst she was preparing something behind his back. I don’t support leave but these are not the actions of someone trustworthy.
My thinking in recent weeks has been that only Davis could sort out this always-impending clusterfuck within the timeframe of 29th March, by resurrecting the discussions he was having in a concertinad-timeframe. And with Olly Robbins given the boot.
It is still where I think we should be. He seemed to have built a rapport that was getting somewhere. That could yet pull folks together. I can't see anything else that might.
And EU say it is this or no deal.
They are liars and that means that a better deal with them will be super easy!
Trying to think what I want to happen in a Tory no confidence vote. While I'd love to see Brexit stopped, I've no illusions about what that would mean for the country. So I think on balance I'd prefer to see May stand and win, to finally push back against the ERG mentality within the Tory party and country. It's a fight Cameron never took on, maybe it's May's turn for a desperate last stand.
Interesting that during Mrs May's grueling interrogation she said Parliament had voted for the referendum by 6 to 1. 544 to 53 in favour. So there are more than Farage and Cameron responsible.
One of the strangest things for me is that May has had two Brexit secretaries and has trusted neither to negotiate Brexit. I have sympathy for the leavers who have said that they have tried to engage. The view was always that she had leavers in key abrexit positions - trade is superceded by Withdrawal agreement, dexeu has been run de facto by Robbins and May - why the subterfuge? If she had said it was of such importance that she would negotiate herself then that would have been fine
Yet both Davis and Raab happily accepted this allegedly neutered rôle with nary a comment.
Davis appeared to be working on a deal that met the red lines whilst she was preparing something behind his back. I don’t support leave but these are not the actions of someone trustworthy.
My thinking in recent weeks has been that only Davis could sort out this always-impending clusterfuck within the timeframe of 29th March, by resurrecting the discussions he was having in a concertinad-timeframe. And with Olly Robbins given the boot.
It is still where I think we should be. He seemed to have built a rapport that was getting somewhere. That could yet pull folks together. I can't see anything else that might.
And EU say it is this or no deal.
The EU are explicitly not ruling out other options.
Since the Parliamentary Conservative Party cannot agree how it wants to go forward, I think it's unlikely that Brexit will now happen. They can't govern anymore, and a Labour-led government will take over.
"You could probably buy the whole of Skeggy with that."
Nothing wrong with Skeg if you like a breeze.
But if it's one of my family in Boston, they'll hopefully use it for something better. I'll be watching out for unexpected spending on their part for the next month or so.
Edit: Perhaps it's God telling them he approves of full-fat Brexit? They won't need much telling.
Whoever bought the ticket appears to have lost it!
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
They're not watching from the sidelines. They have actively opposed the agreement which is why May was having to rely on the ERG in the first place.
May knew what our 6 tests were. She chose not to pursue a deal that meets them.
You mean remain then, which to be honest is looking more likely by the hour
The only solution is the EEA to keep trade flowing. 52:48 is not a mandate for either no deal nor no Brexit.
*Sigh!*
For the 10,000th time - as EU members we cannot join the EEA. The EU and EEA treaties forbid it. Once out we cannot directly join the EEA, we have to apply to join EFTA and if that is approved then we can apply for EEA.
The trade will not keep flowing in the interim of Leave Eu -> Apply EFTA -> Wait -> Join EFTA -> Apply EEA -> join EEA. In any case we would be back were we are now and less influence.
Can anyone explain why we can’t have a unilateral withdrawal from the Backstop? Apart from that the EU want to tie our hands.
At the moment the Irish protocol is a proper backstop, it can only be replaced by a long term partnership. In order words if the WA is signed there is never a third state, with a hard border in NI.
When you talk about unilaterally ending the backstop, you tend to mean unilaterally creating a hard border.
If we do nothing will the EU create the hard border?
1. Towel thrown, game over; 2. Some Hail Mary proposal; 3. "Nothing has changed".
For her sake, let it be (1) or (2). Go down with dignity or go down fighting but don't be taken down in denial.
On 2, what could she do?
A second referendum? The vast majority of her party still oppose that. Norway/EEA intermediate step? Still subject to a deal with the EU. No deal? No majority for that either. An election? Not in her gift and I think her party would have enormous reservations about letting her lead in it.
I am forced to conclude it will be, well I have done my best, I still think this is the best deal we are going to get but it will clearly not pass and I must pass the baton on.
If its 3 then we are genuinely in white coat territory.
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
They're not watching from the sidelines. They have actively opposed the agreement which is why May was having to rely on the ERG in the first place.
Hang on. You've got the order wrong.
May relies on the ERG because she is leader of the Conservative party trying to lead a Conservative Minority govt and they are her Conservative MPs. The fact she can't do it alone is entirely a Conservative problem
Labour are in opposition. Their constitutional duty is to oppose. They have set out six test that this deal does not meet. They are under no obligation moral or otherwise to back it.
If May wants Labour votes or indeed non Conservative votes she should try to offer them something. Instead she is saying this is the best deal, do what you are told.
What utter irresponsible drivel. The six tests Labour had were designed to be failed. Because they care more about power than the wellbeing of the country. They have a moral obligation to vote in a way that most benefits their constituents. They have abandoned that because an economic collapse is beneficial for their chances of forming a government. It is reprehensible.
If TM does decide to resign, is there any chance she will "officially cease to be leader of the conservative party" after the end of the year?
Asking for a friend with a rather unhealthy red number on betfair....
Yes, if there's a full contest which goes to members. Anyone's guess whether that will be so.
Will she remain as PM for the duration ?
She doesn't have to. The convention is for the outgoing PM to stay on as a caretaker, but she could go to the Palace to say "bugger this for a game of soldier, I'm off" and recommend someone to be caretaker in her place (Hammond perhaps?)
The only solution is the EEA to keep trade flowing. 52:48 is not a mandate for either no deal nor no Brexit.
*Sigh!*
For the 10,000th time - as EU members we cannot join the EEA. The EU and EEA treaties forbid it. Once out we cannot directly join the EEA, we have to apply to join EFTA and if that is approved then we can apply for EEA.
The trade will not keep flowing in the interim of Leave Eu -> Apply EFTA -> Wait -> Join EFTA -> Apply EEA -> join EEA. In any case we would be back were we are now and less influence.
So what is the point of leaving?
Wrong. Countries can and have moved from EFTA to EU. We would simply be doing the reverse.
Do the twats shouting over the top of those appearing on outside broadcasts of the news channels realize how much of a twat they sound?
For clarity I don't mean the MPs, it is a given they are twattish, I mean the protesters.
The broadcasters have put up with this for months. Time for them to either go inside or get the Met to deal with the protesters. I am sure if I stood in the street shouting at someone I would be moved on soon enough
Since the Parliamentary Conservative Party cannot agree how it wants to go forward, I think it's unlikely that Brexit will now happen. They can't govern anymore, and a Labour-led government will take over.
If the Tories cannot govern, and they have proven they cannot, they should indeed let someone else try instead.
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
They're not watching from the sidelines. They have actively opposed the agreement which is why May was having to rely on the ERG in the first place.
Opposition opposes government, shock horror.
As long as they are prepared for the risks of opposing in this instance. If all they can fall back on is 'oppositions oppose' that is incredibly childish.
There are good reasons to oppose this deal, so long as the risks of not doing so are known and accepted, but blankly asserting that it is the job for oppositions to oppose, as though it is not still incumbent to take every vote on its merits (just as it is with any government party, hence while people rebel in the first place), is pathetic. Toddlers know better.
The only solution is the EEA to keep trade flowing. 52:48 is not a mandate for either no deal nor no Brexit.
*Sigh!*
For the 10,000th time - as EU members we cannot join the EEA. The EU and EEA treaties forbid it. Once out we cannot directly join the EEA, we have to apply to join EFTA and if that is approved then we can apply for EEA.
The trade will not keep flowing in the interim of Leave Eu -> Apply EFTA -> Wait -> Join EFTA -> Apply EEA -> join EEA. In any case we would be back were we are now and less influence.
So what is the point of leaving?
Wrong. Countries can and have moved from EFTA to EU. We would simply be doing the reverse.
Sure, we can do the reverse, if we get the unanimous formal consent of 31 other countries. Won't be quick, though.
If TM does decide to resign, is there any chance she will "officially cease to be leader of the conservative party" after the end of the year?
Asking for a friend with a rather unhealthy red number on betfair....
Yes. A Con leadership election, going to the members, would normally take 6-8 weeks. The new leader could therefore be announced early in January, with May staying on until then.
Whether the process can be contracted to get someone in place faster than that (other than by arranged coronations, which I doubt are possible in current circumstances), is open to question. The rules Mike mentions in the header also specify the timeline for the MPs rounds of a leadership election. These could potentially take maybe three weeks by themselves, after which the members vote. What with Christmas mail, I could well see a case for going into January.
Obviously, the opposite case is that it'd be bloody stupid to take two months out navel-gazing but then that's also the argument for not having an election at all.
The only solution is the EEA to keep trade flowing. 52:48 is not a mandate for either no deal nor no Brexit.
*Sigh!*
For the 10,000th time - as EU members we cannot join the EEA. The EU and EEA treaties forbid it. Once out we cannot directly join the EEA, we have to apply to join EFTA and if that is approved then we can apply for EEA.
The trade will not keep flowing in the interim of Leave Eu -> Apply EFTA -> Wait -> Join EFTA -> Apply EEA -> join EEA. In any case we would be back were we are now and less influence.
So what is the point of leaving?
Wrong. Countries can and have moved from EFTA to EU. We would simply be doing the reverse.
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
They're not watching from the sidelines. They have actively opposed the agreement which is why May was having to rely on the ERG in the first place.
May knew what our 6 tests were. She chose not to pursue a deal that meets them.
You mean remain then, which to be honest is looking more likely by the hour
If, under a Labour government, it is not possible to reach a deal that meets our tests, then there would be a second referendum in which the government backs Remain. I think.
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
They're not watching from the sidelines. They have actively opposed the agreement which is why May was having to rely on the ERG in the first place.
Hang on. You've got the order wrong.
May relies on the ERG because she is leader of the Conservative party trying to lead a Conservative Minority govt and they are her Conservative MPs. The fact she can't do it alone is entirely a Conservative problem
Labour are in opposition. Their constitutional duty is to oppose. They have set out six test that this deal does not meet. They are under no obligation moral or otherwise to back it.
If May wants Labour votes or indeed non Conservative votes she should try to offer them something. Instead she is saying this is the best deal, do what you are told.
What utter irresponsible drivel. The six tests Labour had were designed to be failed. Because they care more about power than the wellbeing of the country. They have a moral obligation to vote in a way that most benefits their constituents. They have abandoned that because an economic collapse is beneficial for their chances of forming a government. It is reprehensible.
Just at the moment it is rather pot and kettle for a Conservative to say that Labour 'care more about power than the wellbeing of the country'.
It all might come to nothing, but I hugely enjoyed myself today watching the Brexit Delusion crumble. All we need now for the Tory Party to complete the first phase of its Phoenix-like rebirth is JRM or Ms Patel for leader and marching us into the WTO wilderness.
Actually, I am not sure a phoenix would recover from that conflagration....
The only solution is the EEA to keep trade flowing. 52:48 is not a mandate for either no deal nor no Brexit.
*Sigh!*
For the 10,000th time - as EU members we cannot join the EEA. The EU and EEA treaties forbid it. Once out we cannot directly join the EEA, we have to apply to join EFTA and if that is approved then we can apply for EEA.
The trade will not keep flowing in the interim of Leave Eu -> Apply EFTA -> Wait -> Join EFTA -> Apply EEA -> join EEA. In any case we would be back were we are now and less influence.
So what is the point of leaving?
Wrong. Countries can and have moved from EFTA to EU. We would simply be doing the reverse.
The EU could allow us to have a bilateral agreement which is effectively EEA membership, like Switzerland.
What strikes me, as it has done for a while, is what a bunch of wimps the the key Remainers are, particularly on the Labour side - and I voted Leave. Roy Jenkins must be spinning in his grave, or maybe just not surprised. Surely out of this present confusion, one of them is going to hoist the banner of Remain? I understand why they may have taken a tactical decision to wait until Mrs May had a deal. If they vote against the deal on the table it potentially leads to their least favoured option, when they might have the numbers to capture the Commons for a new PM to go cap in hand to the EU and beg to Remain.
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
They're not watching from the sidelines. They have actively opposed the agreement which is why May was having to rely on the ERG in the first place.
Hang on. You've got the order wrong.
May relies on the ERG because she is leader of the Conservative party trying to lead a Conservative Minority govt and they are her Conservative MPs. The fact she can't do it alone is entirely a Conservative problem
Labour are in opposition. Their constitutional duty is to oppose. They have set out six test that this deal does not meet. They are under no obligation moral or otherwise to back it.
If May wants Labour votes or indeed non Conservative votes she should try to offer them something. Instead she is saying this is the best deal, do what you are told.
What utter irresponsible drivel. The six tests Labour had were designed to be failed. Because they care more about power than the wellbeing of the country. They have a moral obligation to vote in a way that most benefits their constituents. They have abandoned that because an economic collapse is beneficial for their chances of forming a government. It is reprehensible.
Take a breather Theo. This is a marathon, not a sprint. And for people like us - who have zero say - it is important not to take events too personally and politicians too seriously.
You may believe that voting one way is in the best interests of the country, others simply don't agree with you. There is indeed a lot at stake, but that's ok. Calling people names like "the worst type of human being" and using language like "reprehensible" really doesn't help.
You would be better served in trying to understand that if Labour are to take part in a Brexit plan, what do they need to feel comfortable doing it. So far this deal offers nothing to a Labour voter, most of whom are Remainers.
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
They're not watching from the sidelines. They have actively opposed the agreement which is why May was having to rely on the ERG in the first place.
May knew what our 6 tests were. She chose not to pursue a deal that meets them.
You mean remain then, which to be honest is looking more likely by the hour
If, under a Labour government, it is not possible to reach a deal that meets our tests, then there would be a second referendum in which the government backs Remain. I think.
One part of me is quite enjoying this. Mrs May is trying to force BINO, and the delicious irony is that we're relying on Labour party to foil her cunning plan. Go, Jezza, go!
The only solution is the EEA to keep trade flowing. 52:48 is not a mandate for either no deal nor no Brexit.
*Sigh!*
For the 10,000th time - as EU members we cannot join the EEA. The EU and EEA treaties forbid it. Once out we cannot directly join the EEA, we have to apply to join EFTA and if that is approved then we can apply for EEA.
The trade will not keep flowing in the interim of Leave Eu -> Apply EFTA -> Wait -> Join EFTA -> Apply EEA -> join EEA. In any case we would be back were we are now and less influence.
So what is the point of leaving?
Wrong. Countries can and have moved from EFTA to EU. We would simply be doing the reverse.
The EEA treaty allows for that, but not the reverse.
Sky reporting Gove has a genuine family problem today
Shades of John Major's Dentist Appointment? Apologies to Gove if it is genuine and serious obviously, but it is somewhat convenient.
Sky seem to be convinced that it is genuine. They stated they know what it is about, but won't be revealing what it about it as it is a private personal matter.
I think if they thought it was horseshit, I think they would be mocking his "dog eat my homework" excuse.
Comments
I expect most of the questions will be about resignations and the bunch of Brady letters,.though.
The S&C is with the Tory party, not Theresa.
No GE (unless ~40% Tory MPs vote for it)
https://twitter.com/susie_dent/status/1063097394223558656
When you talk about unilaterally ending the backstop, you tend to mean unilaterally creating a hard border.
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1063097673732050944
There are good reasons to oppose this deal, so long as the risks of not doing so are known and accepted, but blankly asserting that it is the job for oppositions to oppose, as though it is not still incumbent to take every vote on its merits (just as it is with any government party, hence while people rebel in the first place), is pathetic. Toddlers know better.
"You could probably buy the whole of Skeggy with that."
Nothing wrong with Skeg if you like a breeze.
But if it's one of my family in Boston, they'll hopefully use it for something better. I'll be watching out for unexpected spending on their part for the next month or so.
Edit: Perhaps it's God telling them he approves of full-fat Brexit? They won't need much telling.
The question is whether or not there will be a vote of no confidence. So many MPs say they have written letters that it must be close to 300 now but Brady says he still hasn’t got 48 !
The only solution is the EEA to keep trade flowing. 52:48 is not a mandate for either no deal nor no Brexit.
1. Towel thrown, game over;
2. Some Hail Mary proposal;
3. "Nothing has changed".
For her sake, let it be (1) or (2). Go down with dignity or go down fighting but don't be taken down in denial.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/nov/15/chelsea-accused-andreas-christensen-father
https://twitter.com/johnestevens/status/1063097864593858561
For clarity I don't mean the MPs, it is a given they are twattish, I mean the protesters.
pauses.....
Forward to Moscow..
Time for some to take a jump before it is too late.
May relies on the ERG because she is leader of the Conservative party trying to lead a Conservative Minority govt and they are her Conservative MPs. The fact she can't do it alone is entirely a Conservative problem
Labour are in opposition. Their constitutional duty is to oppose. They have set out six test that this deal does not meet. They are under no obligation moral or otherwise to back it.
If May wants Labour votes or indeed non Conservative votes she should try to offer them something. Instead she is saying this is the best deal, do what you are told.
Asking for a friend with a rather unhealthy red number on betfair....
Yes - hope she wins.
Since the Parliamentary Conservative Party cannot agree how it wants to go forward, I think it's unlikely that Brexit will now happen. They can't govern anymore, and a Labour-led government will take over.
Could be a Pole who has gone home, of course!
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/416901-broward-county-completes-machine-recount-ahead-of-deadline
For the 10,000th time - as EU members we cannot join the EEA. The EU and EEA treaties forbid it. Once out we cannot directly join the EEA, we have to apply to join EFTA and if that is approved then we can apply for EEA.
The trade will not keep flowing in the interim of Leave Eu -> Apply EFTA -> Wait -> Join EFTA -> Apply EEA -> join EEA. In any case we would be back were we are now and less influence.
So what is the point of leaving?
Just asking ....
A second referendum? The vast majority of her party still oppose that. Norway/EEA intermediate step? Still subject to a deal with the EU. No deal? No majority for that either. An election? Not in her gift and I think her party would have enormous reservations about letting her lead in it.
I am forced to conclude it will be, well I have done my best, I still think this is the best deal we are going to get but it will clearly not pass and I must pass the baton on.
If its 3 then we are genuinely in white coat territory.
Whether the process can be contracted to get someone in place faster than that (other than by arranged coronations, which I doubt are possible in current circumstances), is open to question. The rules Mike mentions in the header also specify the timeline for the MPs rounds of a leadership election. These could potentially take maybe three weeks by themselves, after which the members vote. What with Christmas mail, I could well see a case for going into January.
Obviously, the opposite case is that it'd be bloody stupid to take two months out navel-gazing but then that's also the argument for not having an election at all.
https://twitter.com/NSoames/status/1063097674696740865
Deal not popular
people's vote preferred option
WHY DID NOBODY SAY THIS BEFORE?
Actually, I am not sure a phoenix would recover from that conflagration....
Surely out of this present confusion, one of them is going to hoist the banner of Remain? I understand why they may have taken a tactical decision to wait until Mrs May had a deal. If they vote against the deal on the table it potentially leads to their least favoured option, when they might have the numbers to capture the Commons for a new PM to go cap in hand to the EU and beg to Remain.
You may believe that voting one way is in the best interests of the country, others simply don't agree with you. There is indeed a lot at stake, but that's ok. Calling people names like "the worst type of human being" and using language like "reprehensible" really doesn't help.
You would be better served in trying to understand that if Labour are to take part in a Brexit plan, what do they need to feel comfortable doing it. So far this deal offers nothing to a Labour voter, most of whom are Remainers.
I think if they thought it was horseshit, I think they would be mocking his "dog eat my homework" excuse.