It is true, but it is totally irrelevant. We are where we are today because David Cameron was worried about UKIP, because a lot of right wing Tories sold an entirely unachievable prospectus to the electorate and because those same right wing Tories will not accept that. This Brexit was made in the Conservative party and is owned entirely by the Conservative party - which once could claim to be the patriotic, pro-business party without being laughed out of court.
The grave of the Tory Party reads "Fuck Business"- Conservative Foreign Secretary* 2018.
* Not a sackable offence.
The Tory Party is putting forward and majority voting for a very workable Brexit Plan. It looks like the Labour Party is voting for the cliff edge crash.
Hmmm. Keep on saying it if it makes you feel better, but when Tory MPs are openly slagging off each other and sending open letters of no confidence in the PM to Brady, I think it's fair to say that this is not a Labour thing.
A minority of the Conservative parliamentary party is being irresponsible. The entirety of the Labour parliamentary party is.
If you want Labour to govern, it is very easy - resign.
Which brings us to the core of the matter. You lot are willing to crash the economy, plunging millions of people into joblessness and poverty to get a shot at government. You people are selfish and disgusting.
I love you too. You probably need to lie down. You're the one wanting Labour to ride to the rescue.
Once again a complete abdication of any moral responsible and apathy over the impact of your actions. You are a terrible human being.
Hmmm. Not sure what I've done today. The worst thing I've done, I think was to have three cups of tea and spend too much time dicking about on the net.
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
I totally see where you're coming from but rising to the trolls is pointless. This is their day - let them enjoy it for now - fortunately politics is not a zero sum game.
Given Peston's record, that means Graham Brady's postbag is already overflowing.
I think you're missing a "not"
No, that bit's right. The bit Peston's wrong about is 'surprising people'. The mood is clearly that a fatally damaged leader is worse than a change of leader (though whether that's right is a whole different question).
My preferred wording for the people’s vote would be
Do you want A remain B withdrawal agreement C no deal and £825 for every registered elector.
Personally I would remain and I rank the withdrawal agreement as not worth the 39 billion. But to make it fair you may as well give a share of the 39 billion to every registered voter.
This is another thing that May has not addressed. If 48 reaches the party has to decide if it will stick with near through a possible election campaign - she has now lost the DUP. I think the sensible answer would be that she hasn’t really convinced since the last election, rather count on by the fingernails. A Tory voting to keep her would risk a proven election dud. Other possible leaders would have the benefit of either bing a clean skin, or successful electorally Like Boris.
The DUP seem to me to be the ultimate pragmatists. Will they really fancy JC. I think they might even prefer Old Nick
I don’t think would actively support him but they could do the damage without.
I've just watched 'London has Fallen'. It is a truly dire film, and sadly not to the level of making it watchable.
At the end, however, there is an interesting moment: the new British PM is Prime Minister Clarkson.
And I've realised that's the answer! Jeremy Clarkson for PM, and JC can face JC over the dispatch box ...
I loved London has fallen. It was so imbecilic as to make it enjoyable. I particularly liked the ambush at St Paul’s. As if half of the armed police force could be replaced with mercenaries and no one would notice!
I reckon it's because in here the US we literally have something over 17,000 separate police forces and law enforcement agencies, so it's sort of plausible as a plot line to have a plod protecting something not question some bunch of new guys turning up that they don't know claiming to be from a TLA they've never heard of.
I think we know of about 3 letters which have been made public. One might presume that the likes of Boris and Davis will have written them as well. It does seem extraordinary that we have not had an announcement that we have 48+. Its not a very high number. The fact that even now it seems to be a struggle suggests to me that May just might be a lot safer than she currently looks (not hard, someone hanging on with one hand to a burning window 10 stories up looks to be in a pretty good position by comparison at the moment).
Brady has said that if he ever gets to 48 letters he would want to check with each of them that they still meant it. Suppose there were twenty letters submitted before this week. Twenty phone calls at five minutes per phone call would be more than an hour and a half. And it can be strung out a lot longer than that if he doesn't have the relevant phone numbers to hand or people don't answer their phones, etc.
The due diligence on 48 letters could take a while unless all 48 of them corner him in his office as a phalanx.
He's running the risk of 48 of them going public making him look less than trustworthy. Admittedly we are somewhat short of that at the moment.
Somebody mentioned to me at a meeting today that there was one polling out that showed that 70% of people believed the leave campaign had lied. Anyone have any details?
Somebody mentioned to me at a meeting today that there was one polling out that showed that 70% of people believed the leave campaign had lied. Anyone have any details?
In its pointlessness and potential for lasting bitterness this is reminiscent of the Irish Civil War with May in the role of Collins and JRM as De Valera
Yes, that's why I commented that if May gets through a VONC she should refrain from any motor tours of the byways of deepest Somerset.
May is the only one actually putting forward a workable plan and caring what happens to the country. The moral degenerates in the ERG and Labour just don't give a damn what happens to people. I have never known people so callous.
Let's start with Iain Duncan Smith and Esther McVey.
This is another thing that May has not addressed. If 48 reaches the party has to decide if it will stick with near through a possible election campaign - she has now lost the DUP. I think the sensible answer would be that she hasn’t really convinced since the last election, rather count on by the fingernails. A Tory voting to keep her would risk a proven election dud. Other possible leaders would have the benefit of either bing a clean skin, or successful electorally Like Boris.
The DUP seem to me to be the ultimate pragmatists. Will they really fancy JC. I think they might even prefer Old Nick
I don’t think would actively support him but they could do the damage without.
Lining up behind a Papist!!!!!!! Ian Paisley would rise from the grave in condemnation.
I wouldn't put it in quite those terms. But when he makes a pledge, he keeps it. a) Voted against the Government on tuition fees b) Resigned from Government over a road not getting dualled in his constituency c) Won his seat back in a heavily leave area by pledging not to vote to obstruct Brexit, even though he thinks it's as much a misadventure as most Lib Dems.
If only the parliamentary party as a whole had a fraction of his steel in coalition - there would be a lot more Lib Dem MPs left.
One of the strangest things for me is that May has had two Brexit secretaries and has trusted neither to negotiate Brexit. I have sympathy for the leavers who have said that they have tried to engage. The view was always that she had leavers in key abrexit positions - trade is superceded by Withdrawal agreement, dexeu has been run de facto by Robbins and May - why the subterfuge? If she had said it was of such importance that she would negotiate herself then that would have been fine
Anyone get the feeling Brady doesn't want to get to 48 ?
Maybe he shreds them as he receives them? Or the drawer he puts them in has a hole in the back and some drop out and he wonders why he is a 37 letters despite everyone in the party having submitted one
This is another thing that May has not addressed. If 48 reaches the party has to decide if it will stick with near through a possible election campaign - she has now lost the DUP. I think the sensible answer would be that she hasn’t really convinced since the last election, rather count on by the fingernails. A Tory voting to keep her would risk a proven election dud. Other possible leaders would have the benefit of either bing a clean skin, or successful electorally Like Boris.
The DUP seem to me to be the ultimate pragmatists. Will they really fancy JC. I think they might even prefer Old Nick
I don’t think would actively support him but they could do the damage without.
Lining up behind a Papist!!!!!!! Ian Paisley would rise from the grave in condemnation.
This is another thing that May has not addressed. If 48 reaches the party has to decide if it will stick with near through a possible election campaign - she has now lost the DUP. I think the sensible answer would be that she hasn’t really convinced since the last election, rather count on by the fingernails. A Tory voting to keep her would risk a proven election dud. Other possible leaders would have the benefit of either bing a clean skin, or successful electorally Like Boris.
She has lost the DUP on the Brexit deal. That doesn't mean the Tories have lost them overall - though they would if they were able to push the current deal through.
It makes sense, given Lord Lester nor the Lords were allowed to cross examine the accuser.
it's not a courtroom
Correct. His pal David Pannick QC has created a right to cross examine that does not exist. How many people in a disciplinary hearing at work are entitled to cross examine their accusers? It never happens and dismissals are held to be fair notwithstanding that all the time.
One of the strangest things for me is that May has had two Brexit secretaries and has trusted neither to negotiate Brexit. I have sympathy for the leavers who have said that they have tried to engage. The view was always that she had leavers in key abrexit positions - trade is superceded by Withdrawal agreement, dexeu has been run de facto by Robbins and May - why the subterfuge? If she had said it was of such importance that she would negotiate herself then that would have been fine
Yet both Davis and Raab happily accepted this allegedly neutered rôle with nary a comment.
This is another thing that May has not addressed. If 48 reaches the party has to decide if it will stick with near through a possible election campaign - she has now lost the DUP. I think the sensible answer would be that she hasn’t really convinced since the last election, rather count on by the fingernails. A Tory voting to keep her would risk a proven election dud. Other possible leaders would have the benefit of either bing a clean skin, or successful electorally Like Boris.
She has lost the DUP on the Brexit deal. That doesn't mean the Tories have lost them overall - though they would if they were able to push the current deal through.
I think they will start to assert themselves by abstaining on votes to highlight their value
Anyone get the feeling Brady doesn't want to get to 48 ?
Maybe he shreds them as he receives them? Or the drawer he puts them in has a hole in the back and some drop out and he wonders why he is a 37 letters despite everyone in the party having submitted one
Or he locked the drawer and couldn't remember where he put the key.
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
One of the strangest things for me is that May has had two Brexit secretaries and has trusted neither to negotiate Brexit. I have sympathy for the leavers who have said that they have tried to engage. The view was always that she had leavers in key abrexit positions - trade is superceded by Withdrawal agreement, dexeu has been run de facto by Robbins and May - why the subterfuge? If she had said it was of such importance that she would negotiate herself then that would have been fine
Yet both Davis and Raab happily accepted this allegedly neutered rôle with nary a comment.
Davis appeared to be working on a deal that met the red lines whilst she was preparing something behind his back. I don’t support leave but these are not the actions of someone trustworthy.
One of the strangest things for me is that May has had two Brexit secretaries and has trusted neither to negotiate Brexit. I have sympathy for the leavers who have said that they have tried to engage. The view was always that she had leavers in key abrexit positions - trade is superceded by Withdrawal agreement, dexeu has been run de facto by Robbins and May - why the subterfuge? If she had said it was of such importance that she would negotiate herself then that would have been fine
Yet both Davis and Raab happily accepted this allegedly neutered rôle with nary a comment.
That's what I find implausible. If she didn't let them do their jobs, then they should have stepped down.
One of the strangest things for me is that May has had two Brexit secretaries and has trusted neither to negotiate Brexit. I have sympathy for the leavers who have said that they have tried to engage. The view was always that she had leavers in key abrexit positions - trade is superceded by Withdrawal agreement, dexeu has been run de facto by Robbins and May - why the subterfuge? If she had said it was of such importance that she would negotiate herself then that would have been fine
Yet both Davis and Raab happily accepted this allegedly neutered rôle with nary a comment.
Davis appeared to be working on a deal that met the red lines whilst she was preparing something behind his back. I don’t support leave but these are not the actions of someone trustworthy.
If May's resigning she should say "I've done my best, but leading the Tories is like herding cats. Best of luck to whoever takes the job on".
Even better: in the game Eve Online, players can form massive corporations. It has been known for a player to wheedle his way into the corporation, then instantly dissolve it.
May should do the same for the Conservative Party ...
This is another thing that May has not addressed. If 48 reaches the party has to decide if it will stick with near through a possible election campaign - she has now lost the DUP. I think the sensible answer would be that she hasn’t really convinced since the last election, rather count on by the fingernails. A Tory voting to keep her would risk a proven election dud. Other possible leaders would have the benefit of either bing a clean skin, or successful electorally Like Boris.
The DUP seem to me to be the ultimate pragmatists. Will they really fancy JC. I think they might even prefer Old Nick
I don’t think would actively support him but they could do the damage without.
I think they would realise the consequence of inaction
Sky just revealing that in the draft the UK will have to pay to access the EU wide security info, which the UK provide the vast bulk of information for....
Remember how she tried to use this point as leverage and hasn't even managed to get a fair deal on this. The EU should be paying us.
Honestly I can't imagine what else she could conceivably be calling a presser for today unless it's to announce the jig is up.
I suppose she could be pre-announcing a Bring It On for a VONC, but that would be a reckless move even for her.
Must be possible that she knows the no confidence vote is being called, and she's making a statement explaining why she is contesting it? She's really no quitter.
Sky just revealing that in the draft the UK will have to pay to access the EU wide security info, which the UK provide the vast bulk of information for....
Remember how she tried to use this point as leverage and hasn't even managed to get a fair deal on this. The EU should be paying us.
Davis appeared to be working on a deal that met the red lines whilst she was preparing something behind his back. I don’t support leave but these are not the actions of someone trustworthy.
Davis was reliably and predictably wrong on every single statement he ever made about Brexit.
Keeping him out of the loop would have been patriotic
Interesting that during Mrs May's grueling interrogation she said Parliament had voted for the referendum by 6 to 1. 544 to 53 in favour. So there are more than Farage and Cameron responsible.
Honestly I can't imagine what else she could conceivably be calling a presser for today unless it's to announce the jig is up.
I suppose she could be pre-announcing a Bring It On for a VONC, but that would be a reckless move even for her.
Must be possible that she knows the no confidence vote is being called, and she's making a statement explaining why she is contesting it? She's really no quitter.
I’d assume that out of courtesy the 22 chairman advises the leader before announcing the challenge, and that if she wants to respond by resigning she gets to do that. But possibly she will be acknowledging the contest and setting out her stall, as resigning seems very unlikely based on behaviour to date.
Third option is she’s having a press conference for questions on the deal because that is what she planned yesterday before it was stopped by complaints in the house, and as we know she doesn’t adapt to events very quickly.
You and all the Labour Party care more about the political game than the actual impact on people's lives. You can barely contain your glee over the UK facing an economic crash so you can get into power.
Give it a rest. I am appalled by this situation. The sheer political incompetence of May is breathtaking to me. She has got herself into a mess through a tin ear that could feature in a Greek tragedy. The almost theological zeal of the ERG is shocking, stabbing their own for technicalities. It's nasty, nasty stuff.
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
They're not watching from the sidelines. They have actively opposed the agreement which is why May was having to rely on the ERG in the first place.
Interesting that during Mrs May's grueling interrogation she said Parliament had voted for the referendum by 6 to 1. So there are more than Farage and Cameron responsible.
One of the strangest things for me is that May has had two Brexit secretaries and has trusted neither to negotiate Brexit. I have sympathy for the leavers who have said that they have tried to engage. The view was always that she had leavers in key abrexit positions - trade is superceded by Withdrawal agreement, dexeu has been run de facto by Robbins and May - why the subterfuge? If she had said it was of such importance that she would negotiate herself then that would have been fine
Yet both Davis and Raab happily accepted this allegedly neutered rôle with nary a comment.
Davis appeared to be working on a deal that met the red lines whilst she was preparing something behind his back. I don’t support leave but these are not the actions of someone trustworthy.
My thinking in recent weeks has been that only Davis could sort out this always-impending clusterfuck within the timeframe of 29th March, by resurrecting the discussions he was having in a concertinad-timeframe. And with Olly Robbins given the boot.
It is still where I think we should be. He seemed to have built a rapport that was getting somewhere. That could yet pull folks together. I can't see anything else that might.
One of the strangest things for me is that May has had two Brexit secretaries and has trusted neither to negotiate Brexit. I have sympathy for the leavers who have said that they have tried to engage. The view was always that she had leavers in key abrexit positions - trade is superceded by Withdrawal agreement, dexeu has been run de facto by Robbins and May - why the subterfuge? If she had said it was of such importance that she would negotiate herself then that would have been fine
Yet both Davis and Raab happily accepted this allegedly neutered rôle with nary a comment.
Davis appeared to be working on a deal that met the red lines whilst she was preparing something behind his back. I don’t support leave but these are not the actions of someone trustworthy.
My thinking in recent weeks has been that only Davis could sort out this always-impending clusterfuck within the timeframe of 29th March, by resurrecting the discussions he was having in a concertinad-timeframe. And with Olly Robbins given the boot.
It is still where I think we should be. He seemed to have built a rapport that was getting somewhere. That could yet pull folks together. I can't see anything else that might.
My thinking in recent weeks has been that only Davis could sort out this always-impending clusterfuck within the timeframe of 29th March, by resurrecting the discussions he was having in a concertinad-timeframe. And with Olly Robbins given the boot.
It is still where I think we should be. He seemed to have built a rapport that was getting somewhere. That could yet pull folks together. I can't see anything else that might.
The EU will not reopen negotiations.
Not surprising given the attitude of the Brexiteers
Comments
https://twitter.com/BenRTWeisz/status/1062999800877080577
(maybe you knew that)
My preferred wording for the people’s vote would be
Do you want
A remain
B withdrawal agreement
C no deal and £825 for every registered elector.
Personally I would remain and I rank the withdrawal agreement as not worth the 39 billion. But to make it fair you may as well give a share of the 39 billion to every registered voter.
But Norway + CU, a la Boles, nominally passes Labour's six tests and could therefore potentially command a majority in the HoC. Nothing else can.
a) the Tories WILL NOT fight another election with her as leader
b) that election is now looming out of the fog
c) one Big Beast with hat in the ring provokes all to do so
d) as soon as the letters reach critical mass, the party is looking at her replacement not her backing.
With hindsight, the MPs should have quietly taken her out the back as soon as she lost the majority.
Change my mind.
I's always wondered about the name of that Committee.....
a) Voted against the Government on tuition fees
b) Resigned from Government over a road not getting dualled in his constituency
c) Won his seat back in a heavily leave area by pledging not to vote to obstruct Brexit, even though he thinks it's as much a misadventure as most Lib Dems.
If only the parliamentary party as a whole had a fraction of his steel in coalition - there would be a lot more Lib Dem MPs left.
Farage and Nuttal have to fnd other paid employment?
Patisserie Valerie CEO Paul May has resigned.
And having discussions with the possible temporary leader about supporting his taking over for a couple of years.
Btw, where is David Davis today?
Now I used to work with Lucy. Charming lady but I wouldn't put her in charge of a jumble sale, never mind an inquiry.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/11/15/michael-gove-offered-brexit-secretary-job/
Meanwhile Labour watch from the sidelines in astonishment. They need to get ready to take over and clear up the mess. It will be hard and unrewarding to unpick this shambles.
😉
I suppose she could be pre-announcing a Bring It On for a VONC, but that would be a uncharacteristically reckless move for her.
And she will now pay the price.
May should do the same for the Conservative Party ...
Sky just revealing that in the draft the UK will have to pay to access the EU wide security info, which the UK provide the vast bulk of information for....
Remember how she tried to use this point as leverage and hasn't even managed to get a fair deal on this. The EU should be paying us.
But that's just not May.
Of course that is only guaranteed to work if she has at least 48 supporters...
Keeping him out of the loop would have been patriotic
And who were the heroic 1 in 6 who didn't?
Third option is she’s having a press conference for questions on the deal because that is what she planned yesterday before it was stopped by complaints in the house, and as we know she doesn’t adapt to events very quickly.
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2017/02/mps-who-voted-against-article-50
If she survives her gov will never pass anything again.
No DUP.
No ERG.
No Labour, SNP, Plaid, etc (of course).
On the upside, given the policy overlap, she might have SinnFein.
It is still where I think we should be. He seemed to have built a rapport that was getting somewhere. That could yet pull folks together. I can't see anything else that might.
It's her clumsy attempt at triangulation that damns her.
– My Deal or No Deal or No Brexit.
She threatens Project Fear to opponents on both sides of her deal.
Not surprising given the attitude of the Brexiteers
They won't do that because the moment they do Labour will move a motion of no confidence under the FTPA and the government will fall.
That's a nuclear option the DUP are keeping in their back pocket. They're not ready to do that, yet. But May's playing with fucking hellfire.