politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Rees-Mogg moves back into the favourite slot for next CON lead
Comments
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Working class boys who attended private school?TheScreamingEagles said:The reason I get polled so often is as one of the pollsters told me, I represent a demographic that is usually very hard to get to respond to polls.
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A Tory like Heidi Allen would be fine though !Pulpstar said:
No Tory will be pure enough for HYUFD and no remainer pure enough for Surby.surby said:
For someone who allegedly voted Remain, you seem to prefer Hard Brexit to a soft one.HYUFD said:
The numbers don't lie.kle4 said:
No, because you are ignoring that the government very obviously had no actual strategy until Chequers, since for months they have been kicking the can down the road, coming up with fudged wording to keep leavers and remainers on side until the point of no return came. Once it came and a side could no longer pretend they had a chance under May, there was an impact.HYUFD said:
No as when May looked like pushing hard Brexit the Tories were on 40%+, most Remainers who were going to defect defected in June 2017.kle4 said:
I expect that's part of it, but on the other hand she needed to make a decision, and she would probably have lost some support either way.JRM and co want no deal for instance, if May adopted that as policy I think the Tories would be in the mid30s as well.Danny565 said:
Summary: Mrs May has made a right pig's ear of things.Danny565 said:Labour opens up biggest lead over Tories since general election
The latest Opinium poll for the Observer puts Labour on 40%, the same score % last month to 8%.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/14/labour-opens-up-biggest-lead-over-tories-since-general-election
It makes no sense to suggest the government had a coherent, clear direction in the months of this year in which the Tories were in the lead. They demonstrably did not, hence all the bickering over amendments and the like.
And if you are right and a hard leave (which for JRM is clearly no deal, since they've waited too long) is so bloody popular with the Tory membership (I don't doubt it is more popular to an extent), then there is no excuse for them not to have had a leadership contest in order to stop May now.
So if we do not get a leadership challenge imminently, the only plausible explanation is that no matter how popular you say hard leave is for the tory poll numbers, the MPs pushing it don't actually believe what they are saying.
The Tories got 42% in June 2017 on a hard Brexit platform and are on 36% in the polls tonight on a soft Brexit platform.
May's deal will likely get us a transition deal but if that deal has not ended with a FTA by the next general election Corbyn becomes PM due to Tory defections to UKIP0 -
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!0 -
Don't tell anyone, but I'm as working class as I am a good Muslim boy.ydoethur said:
Working class boys who attended private school?TheScreamingEagles said:The reason I get polled so often is as one of the pollsters told me, I represent a demographic that is usually very hard to get to respond to polls.
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I see that the EU has been forecasting again:
https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1018110457859772416?s=190 -
Conservative party members who are BAME must be very hard to find.....TheScreamingEagles said:
That and my BAME heritage.Sandpit said:
Conservative party members?TheScreamingEagles said:The reason I get polled so often is as one of the pollsters told me, I represent a demographic that is usually very hard to get to respond to polls.
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Would be more effective to tell them they would have lost without the help of the French.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!0 -
Only Theresa May could revive the dead UKIP corpse back to life.GIN1138 said:
LOL! Con -6!TheScreamingEagles said:Correction to the Opinium poll
Con 36 (-6)
Lab 40 (nc)
LD 8 (+1)
UKIP 8 (+5)
When was the last time we saw a collapse as dramatic as this? October/November 2007?0 -
I think he misunderstood when Theresa May said she wanted more exposure of her junior ministers.0
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No.Foxy said:Does texting dick pictures ever impress the ladies in a positive manner?
Real life ones often fail to impress too....0 -
Now, will they listen?GIN1138 said:
LOL! Con -6!TheScreamingEagles said:Correction to the Opinium poll
Con 36 (-6)
Lab 40 (nc)
LD 8 (+1)
UKIP 8 (+5)
When was the last time we saw a collapse as dramatic as this? October/November 2007?
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The Bushes in America? And you do know that Anthony Eden was married to Churchill's niece?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!0 -
No for the umpteenth time monarchy and support for a strong nation state are the epitome of conservatism.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!
Capitalism and free trade has often been more a liberal concept than a conservative one, though conservatives generally oppose socialism.
There have been hereditary conservative dynasties too from the Churchills to the Bushes.
Pomp and circumstance tends to go hand and hand with a strong military, also a key conservative idea0 -
First she revived Corbyn now she has revived Farage.nunuone said:
Only Theresa May could revive the dead UKIP corpse back to life.GIN1138 said:
LOL! Con -6!TheScreamingEagles said:Correction to the Opinium poll
Con 36 (-6)
Lab 40 (nc)
LD 8 (+1)
UKIP 8 (+5)
When was the last time we saw a collapse as dramatic as this? October/November 2007?
We better hope Nick Griffin does not start getting ideas!0 -
Plus two father-son Prime Ministers - the Pitts and the Grenvilles.DecrepitJohnL said:
The Bushes in America? And you do know that Anthony Eden was married to Churchill's niece?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!
One uncle-nephew combination - Salisbury and Balfour.
A father (acting leader) and two of his sons as party leader, although only one became PM - the Chamberlains.
I dare say more could be found.0 -
Conservative Party "members"?ydoethur said:I think he misunderstood when Theresa May said she wanted more exposure of her junior ministers.
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Upper middle class Asian-heritage public school attendees? The prep and senior schools here have plenty of them.TheScreamingEagles said:The reason I get polled so often is as one of the pollsters told me, I represent a demographic that is usually very hard to get to respond to polls.
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You have four wives???TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't tell anyone, but I'm as working class as I am a good Muslim boy.ydoethur said:
Working class boys who attended private school?TheScreamingEagles said:The reason I get polled so often is as one of the pollsters told me, I represent a demographic that is usually very hard to get to respond to polls.
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Well, it's clearly a cock-upSunil_Prasannan said:
Conservative Party "members"?ydoethur said:I think he misunderstood when Theresa May said she wanted more exposure of her junior ministers.
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Take the deal or remain is exactly the type of political bollocks that got the country in the mess its in. It is just a way of remainers trying to subvert the referendum and ensuring we have leave in name only.Foxy said:
I see there are calls for a Deal vs Remain referendum being debated at Labour's autumn conference.NickPalmer said:
Opposition generally works on the basis that you point out the snags in what the Government is doing, and just sketch out your alternative in broad outline (e.g. yes to customs union, no to single market). I was being a bit mischievous with my earlier post, but really there is not a lot of point in trying to take a detailed position on a negotiation with every twist and turn. The centre of gravity in Labour is mildly Remain, just as the centre of Conservative gravity is fairly hard Leave. When we finally have a result from the Government (or not), there will only be 3 options: Labour will need to either amiably accept the outcome (unlikely) or reject it outright (hmm) or propose putting it to a vote with Remain as the alternative (which is what I think we'll do). If people still want to withdraw when they see the deal, fair enough.kle4 said:
It's good partisan politics. But he cannot pretend later he had a plan, and so would have done better. He will say it, and enough will believe it, but 'masterly inactivity' and not adopting a position will make that untrue. Corbyn really has learned to be a regular politician.
I suspect that it would be passed if debated, but might be stage-managed off stage.
Leave won the referendum, the question should be take the deal or WTO0 -
That Irish growth might fall a tad with hard Brexit.Foxy said:I see that the EU has been forecasting again:
https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1018110457859772416?s=19
Interesting too the fastest economic growth is in Eastern Europe on the whole which may gradually reduce our immigration anyway if Poland and Romania have faster growing economies than we do0 -
You have gone off May, haven't you ? Until recently, May could do no wrong.HYUFD said:
First she revived Corbyn now she has revived Farage.nunuone said:
Only Theresa May could revive the dead UKIP corpse back to life.GIN1138 said:
LOL! Con -6!TheScreamingEagles said:Correction to the Opinium poll
Con 36 (-6)
Lab 40 (nc)
LD 8 (+1)
UKIP 8 (+5)
When was the last time we saw a collapse as dramatic as this? October/November 2007?
We better hope Nick Griffin does not start getting ideas!0 -
A monarcho-socialist writesDecrepitJohnL said:
The Bushes in America? And you do know that Anthony Eden was married to Churchill's niece?Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!
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I see the EU still uses the old-style French flag.Foxy said:I see that the EU has been forecasting again:
https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1018110457859772416?s=190 -
Where is your evidence of that? GIN, Archer etc are far more supportive of hard Brexit than I am.Pulpstar said:
No Tory will be pure enough for HYUFD and no remainer pure enough for Surby.surby said:
For someone who allegedly voted Remain, you seem to prefer Hard Brexit to a soft one.HYUFD said:
The numbers don't lie.kle4 said:
No, because you are ignoring that the government very obviously had no actual strategy until Chequers, since for months they have been kicking the can down the road, coming up with fudged wording to keep leavers and remainers on side until the point of no return came. Once it came and a side could no longer pretend they had a chance under May, there was an impact.HYUFD said:
No as when May looked like pushing hard Brexit the Tories were on 40%+, most Remainers who were going to defect defected in June 2017.kle4 said:
I expect that's part of it, but on the other hand she needed to make a decision, and she would probably have lost some support either way.JRM and co want no deal for instance, if May adopted that as policy I think the Tories would be in the mid30s as well.Danny565 said:
Summary: Mrs May has made a right pig's ear of things.Danny565 said:Labour opens up biggest lead over Tories since general election
The latest Opinium poll for the Observer puts Labour on 40%, the same score % last month to 8%.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/14/labour-opens-up-biggest-lead-over-tories-since-general-election
It makes no sense to suggest the government had a coherent, clear direction in the months of this year in which the Tories were in the lead. They demonstrably did not, hence all the bickering over amendments and the like.
And if you are right and a hard leave (which for JRM is clearly no deal, since they've waited too long) is so bloody popular with the Tory membership (I don't doubt it is more popular to an extent), then there is no excuse for them not to have had a leadership contest in order to stop May now.
So if we do not get a leadership challenge imminently, the only plausible explanation is that no matter how popular you say hard leave is for the tory poll numbers, the MPs pushing it don't actually believe what they are saying.
The Tories got 42% in June 2017 on a hard Brexit platform and are on 36% in the polls tonight on a soft Brexit platform.
May's deal will likely get us a transition deal but if that deal has not ended with a FTA by the next general election Corbyn becomes PM due to Tory defections to UKIP
I would be happy with Javid and voted Remain but if we need a hard Brexiteer to beat Corbyn then so be it0 -
Perhaps UKIP on 8% is something to do with Paul Joseph Watson and Sargon of Akkad joining the party with their millions of YouTube followers.0
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She can stay until December 2020 and the supposed end of the transition deal, if we have not get a FTA by then she will have to go yesGIN1138 said:
Have you had it with Theresa HYUFD?HYUFD said:
The Tories were still on 40%+ in most polls last autumn even if Labour led a few, now the Tories are below 40% in all the post Chequers pollsSean_F said:
The government's position relative to Labour is much the same as last Autumn ( though both parties are down in absolute terms).HYUFD said:
The numbers don't lie.kle4 said:
No, because you are ignoring that the government very obviously had no actual strategy until Chequers, since for months they have been kicking the can down the road, coming up with fudged wording to keep leavers and remainers on side until the point of no return came. Once it came and a side could no longer pretend they had a chance under May, there was an impact.HYUFD said:
No as when May looked like pushing hard Brexit the Tories were on 40%+, most Remainers who were going to defect defected in June 2017.kle4 said:
I expect that's part of it, but on the other hand she needed to make a decision, and she would probably have lost some support either way.JRM and co want no deal for instance, if May adopted that as policy I think the Tories would be in the mid30s as well.Danny565 said:
Summary: Mrs May has made a right pig's ear of things.Danny565 said:Labour opens up biggest lead over Tories since general election
The latest Opinium poll for the Observer puts Labour on 40%, the same score % last month to 8%.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/14/labour-opens-up-biggest-lead-over-tories-since-general-election
It makes no sense to suggest the government had a coherent, clear direction in the months of this year in which the Tories were aying.
The Tories got 42% in June 2017 on a hard Brexit platform and are on 36% in the polls tonight on a soft Brexit platform.
May's deal will likely get us a transition deal but if that deal has not ended with a FTA by the next general election Corbyn becomes PM due to Tory defections to UKIP0 -
Looks like the tricolour to me. Can't see any white flags there.DecrepitJohnL said:
I see the EU still uses the old-style French flag.Foxy said:I see that the EU has been forecasting again:
https://twitter.com/EU_Commission/status/1018110457859772416?s=190 -
Until recently May won the Tories votes, now she is losing them.surby said:
You have gone off May, haven't you ? Until recently, May could do no wrong.HYUFD said:
First she revived Corbyn now she has revived Farage.nunuone said:
Only Theresa May could revive the dead UKIP corpse back to life.GIN1138 said:
LOL! Con -6!TheScreamingEagles said:Correction to the Opinium poll
Con 36 (-6)
Lab 40 (nc)
LD 8 (+1)
UKIP 8 (+5)
When was the last time we saw a collapse as dramatic as this? October/November 2007?
We better hope Nick Griffin does not start getting ideas!
36% would be lower than the 37% Cameron got in 2015 compared to the 42% May got in 20170 -
I think Sunil was joking, HYUFD.HYUFD said:
No for the umpteenth time monarchy and support for a strong nation state are the epitome of conservatism.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!
Capitalism and free trade has often been more a liberal concept than a conservative one, though conservatives generally oppose socialism.
There have been hereditary conservative dynasties too from the Churchills to the Bushes.
Pomp and circumstance tends to go hand and hand with a strong military, also a key conservative idea
On less controversial matter, I'm trying the RPG "The Pillars of the Earth" based on the Follett book set in 1100-odd about a man who dreams of building a cathedral. Positively the first game where I've been asked to deliver a baby in the first 5 minutes...
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It just goes from bad to worseFloater said:0 -
I hope so but it is a mistake to think the Conservative Party is just the political wing of the City of London as it is not trueNickPalmer said:
I think Sunil was joking, HYUFD.HYUFD said:
No for the umpteenth time monarchy and support for a strong nation state are the epitome of conservatism.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!
Capitalism and free trade has often been more a liberal concept than a conservative one, though conservatives generally oppose socialism.
There have been hereditary conservative dynasties too from the Churchills to the Bushes.
Pomp and circumstance tends to go hand and hand with a strong military, also a key conservative idea
On less controversial matter, I'm trying the RPG "The Pillars of the Earth" based on the Follett book set in 1100-odd about a man who dreams of building a cathedral. Positively the first game where I've been asked to deliver a baby in the first 5 minutes...0 -
The Trump's seemed perfectly happy with their meeting with the Queen, he should ignore the left-wing stirringTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I see Nigel Farage was tweeting out blatantly obvious photoshops and then when called on it doubled down.0
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"Matthew Goodwin
@GoodwinMJ
·
7m
Do you agree or disagree that Donald Trump is right to say Theresa May has wrecked Brexit and her plan is not what people voted for?
Agree 45%
Disagree 38%
Don't know 17%
ComRes July 13"0 -
I can’t stand Corbyn but Brexit is just as much an experiment as Corbyn’s policies are. So if UKIP is revived for a few years because May does not follow a Hard Brexit path and we end up with Corbyn for 5 years so be it. We shouldn’t follow a Brexit path just to please the hardline Brexiteers who are motivated by nothing else. This is the future of the country at stake and we should follow the least risky Brexit path.0
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I don't think she has done much wrong but is caught in a pincer with hard Brexiteers and those who want to remain.surby said:
You have gone off May, haven't you ? Until recently, May could do no wrong.HYUFD said:
First she revived Corbyn now she has revived Farage.nunuone said:
Only Theresa May could revive the dead UKIP corpse back to life.GIN1138 said:
LOL! Con -6!TheScreamingEagles said:Correction to the Opinium poll
Con 36 (-6)
Lab 40 (nc)
LD 8 (+1)
UKIP 8 (+5)
When was the last time we saw a collapse as dramatic as this? October/November 2007?
We better hope Nick Griffin does not start getting ideas!
In my opinion we are heading for a hard Brexit or remain but getting there will see blood on the floor0 -
If you think either of those things are 'experiments,' please never go into nuclear physics. We've only got one planet.chloe said:I can’t stand Corbyn but Brexit is just as much an experiment as Corbyn’s policies are. So if UKIP is revived for a few years because May does not follow a Hard Brexit path and we end up with Corbyn for 5 years so be it. We shouldn’t follow a Brexit path just to please the hardline Brexiteers who are motivated by nothing else. This is the future of the country at stake and we should follow the least risky Brexit path.
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I would guess that U.K. growth this year will be nearer 1.8 than 1.3. I also think some of the EZ growth forecasts will prove somewhat optimistic. We shall see.
On the polling it does appear that slightly more people are still paying attention to Brexit than common sense would have indicated. I think that the majority of those who have shifted will come around to the view I have: that May’s proposal is shit but it is still the best on offer right now.0 -
The problem - and it has been a significant problem with May and the EU all along - is that the way this has been played Remain isn't an option and hard Brexit is the default.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I don't think she has done much wrong but is caught in a pincer with hard Brexiteers and those who want to remain.surby said:
You have gone off May, haven't you ? Until recently, May could do no wrong.HYUFD said:
First she revived Corbyn now she has revived Farage.nunuone said:
Only Theresa May could revive the dead UKIP corpse back to life.GIN1138 said:
LOL! Con -6!TheScreamingEagles said:Correction to the Opinium poll
Con 36 (-6)
Lab 40 (nc)
LD 8 (+1)
UKIP 8 (+5)
When was the last time we saw a collapse as dramatic as this? October/November 2007?
We better hope Nick Griffin does not start getting ideas!
In my opinion we are heading for a hard Brexit or remain but getting there will see blood on the floor0 -
Nor is it Farage's political wingHYUFD said:
I hope so but it is a mistake to think the Conservative Party is just the political wing of the City of London as it is not trueNickPalmer said:
I think Sunil was joking, HYUFD.HYUFD said:
No for the umpteenth time monarchy and support for a strong nation state are the epitome of conservatism.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!
Capitalism and free trade has often been more a liberal concept than a conservative one, though conservatives generally oppose socialism.
There have been hereditary conservative dynasties too from the Churchills to the Bushes.
Pomp and circumstance tends to go hand and hand with a strong military, also a key conservative idea
On less controversial matter, I'm trying the RPG "The Pillars of the Earth" based on the Follett book set in 1100-odd about a man who dreams of building a cathedral. Positively the first game where I've been asked to deliver a baby in the first 5 minutes...0 -
But it needs BOTH to winBig_G_NorthWales said:
Nor is it Farage's political wingHYUFD said:
I hope so but it is a mistake to think the Conservative Party is just the political wing of the City of London as it is not trueNickPalmer said:
I think Sunil was joking, HYUFD.HYUFD said:
No for the umpteenth time monarchy and support for a strong nation state are the epitome of conservatism.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!
Capitalism and free trade has often been more a liberal concept than a conservative one, though conservatives generally oppose socialism.
There have been hereditary conservative dynasties too from the Churchills to the Bushes.
Pomp and circumstance tends to go hand and hand with a strong military, also a key conservative idea
On less controversial matter, I'm trying the RPG "The Pillars of the Earth" based on the Follett book set in 1100-odd about a man who dreams of building a cathedral. Positively the first game where I've been asked to deliver a baby in the first 5 minutes...0 -
re. your first sentence: not really. When has something akin to Brexit been done - i.e. a large economy leave a block of many other countries? Russia and the fall of the USSR may be one, but that was also very different, with the largest (and controlling) country imploding.chloe said:I can’t stand Corbyn but Brexit is just as much an experiment as Corbyn’s policies are. So if UKIP is revived for a few years because May does not follow a Hard Brexit path and we end up with Corbyn for 5 years so be it. We shouldn’t follow a Brexit path just to please the hardline Brexiteers who are motivated by nothing else. This is the future of the country at stake and we should follow the least risky Brexit path.
Whereas Corbyn's policies have been tried before: some here in the UK, others elsewhere. Some may remember his fondness for Venezuela; and it's hard to argue that the experiment there has been to the benefit of the average Venezuelan.0 -
Most likely you will end up with both, Corbyn for 5 years, then a hard Brexit Tory for 5 yearschloe said:I can’t stand Corbyn but Brexit is just as much an experiment as Corbyn’s policies are. So if UKIP is revived for a few years because May does not follow a Hard Brexit path and we end up with Corbyn for 5 years so be it. We shouldn’t follow a Brexit path just to please the hardline Brexiteers who are motivated by nothing else. This is the future of the country at stake and we should follow the least risky Brexit path.
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LOL. Very good.ydoethur said:
If you think either of those things are 'experiments,' please never go into nuclear physics. We've only got one planet.chloe said:I can’t stand Corbyn but Brexit is just as much an experiment as Corbyn’s policies are. So if UKIP is revived for a few years because May does not follow a Hard Brexit path and we end up with Corbyn for 5 years so be it. We shouldn’t follow a Brexit path just to please the hardline Brexiteers who are motivated by nothing else. This is the future of the country at stake and we should follow the least risky Brexit path.
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A 5.5% swing from Conservative to UKIP is the equivalent of about 1.73 million votes moving from one party to the other.TheScreamingEagles said:Correction to the Opinium poll
Con 36 (-6)
Lab 40 (nc)
LD 8 (+1)
UKIP 8 (+5)0 -
Another monarcho-socialist writes!HYUFD said:
No for the umpteenth time monarchy and support for a strong nation state are the epitome of conservatism.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!0 -
HYUFD said:
Most likely you will end up with both, Corbyn for 5 years, then a hard Brexit Tory for 5 yearschloe said:I can’t stand Corbyn but Brexit is just as much an experiment as Corbyn’s policies are. So if UKIP is revived for a few years because May does not follow a Hard Brexit path and we end up with Corbyn for 5 years so be it. We shouldn’t follow a Brexit path just to please the hardline Brexiteers who are motivated by nothing else. This is the future of the country at stake and we should follow the least risky Brexit path.
Give me strength. Hard Brexit will be over shortly, one way or another0 -
I am surprised you haven't emigrated to north Korea, in that case.HYUFD said:
No for the umpteenth time monarchy and support for a strong nation state are the epitome of conservatism.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!
...
0 -
What kind of game mechanics are we talking here? Walking simulator? Point and click? Visual Novel?NickPalmer said:
I think Sunil was joking, HYUFD.HYUFD said:
No for the umpteenth time monarchy and support for a strong nation state are the epitome of conservatism.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!
Capitalism and free trade has often been more a liberal concept than a conservative one, though conservatives generally oppose socialism.
There have been hereditary conservative dynasties too from the Churchills to the Bushes.
Pomp and circumstance tends to go hand and hand with a strong military, also a key conservative idea
On less controversial matter, I'm trying the RPG "The Pillars of the Earth" based on the Follett book set in 1100-odd about a man who dreams of building a cathedral. Positively the first game where I've been asked to deliver a baby in the first 5 minutes...0 -
No. She will get a deal. It will not be a good deal but it will still be better than no deal. And she will drive that through successfully. The consequences for the party are less certain.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I don't think she has done much wrong but is caught in a pincer with hard Brexiteers and those who want to remain.surby said:
You have gone off May, haven't you ? Until recently, May could do no wrong.HYUFD said:
First she revived Corbyn now she has revived Farage.nunuone said:
Only Theresa May could revive the dead UKIP corpse back to life.GIN1138 said:
LOL! Con -6!TheScreamingEagles said:Correction to the Opinium poll
Con 36 (-6)
Lab 40 (nc)
LD 8 (+1)
UKIP 8 (+5)
When was the last time we saw a collapse as dramatic as this? October/November 2007?
We better hope Nick Griffin does not start getting ideas!
In my opinion we are heading for a hard Brexit or remain but getting there will see blood on the floor0 -
That is so funnyIshmael_Z said:
I am surprised you haven't emigrated to north Korea, in that case.HYUFD said:
No for the umpteenth time monarchy and support for a strong nation state are the epitome of conservatism.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!
...0 -
I really hope you are right and no one knows the political price at this stageDavidL said:
No. She will get a deal. It will not be a good deal but it will still be better than no deal. And she will drive that through successfully. The consequences for the party are less certain.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I don't think she has done much wrong but is caught in a pincer with hard Brexiteers and those who want to remain.surby said:
You have gone off May, haven't you ? Until recently, May could do no wrong.HYUFD said:
First she revived Corbyn now she has revived Farage.nunuone said:
Only Theresa May could revive the dead UKIP corpse back to life.GIN1138 said:
LOL! Con -6!TheScreamingEagles said:Correction to the Opinium poll
Con 36 (-6)
Lab 40 (nc)
LD 8 (+1)
UKIP 8 (+5)
When was the last time we saw a collapse as dramatic as this? October/November 2007?
We better hope Nick Griffin does not start getting ideas!
In my opinion we are heading for a hard Brexit or remain but getting there will see blood on the floor0 -
If it’s of any consolation to Tories on here, I’d advise not to get excited over one VI poll. Although given the way VI polls have changed so much since Spring 2017, even if you believe VI polls - nothing should be taken as definitive.0
-
Just of interest what happens if TM refuses the EU compromises and walks away to prepare for a hard Brexit
UKIP flood back and the HOC stops it0 -
Good post - everything is too febrile at presentThe_Apocalypse said:If it’s of any consolation to Tories on here, I’d advise not to get excited over one VI poll. Although given the way VI polls have changed so much since Spring 2017, even if you believe VI polls - nothing should be taken as definitive.
0 -
Does this count as one of the Brexiteers’ “resignations a day” as they have a bit of catching up to do by my reckoning?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It just goes from bad to worseFloater said:0 -
Midterm poll. Ignore.
I’m backing May against deranged quarterwits like Rees.0 -
Don't think they can count it really, as he was a Remainer.rpjs said:
Does this count as one of the Brexiteers’ “resignations a day” as they have a bit of catching up to do by my reckoning?Big_G_NorthWales said:
It just goes from bad to worseFloater said:0 -
There are going to be a significant number of people who feel betrayed by her deal. They will feel that this is not what they voted for. There will be others who are relieved that the deal is not any worse and that some of the benefits of membership have been retained but who will be very reluctant to give her any credit for it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I really hope you are right and no one knows the political price at this stageDavidL said:
No. She will get a deal. It will not be a good deal but it will still be better than no deal. And she will drive that through successfully. The consequences for the party are less certain.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I don't think she has done much wrong but is caught in a pincer with hard Brexiteers and those who want to remain.surby said:
You have gone off May, haven't you ? Until recently, May could do no wrong.HYUFD said:
First she revived Corbyn now she has revived Farage.nunuone said:
Only Theresa May could revive the dead UKIP corpse back to life.GIN1138 said:
LOL! Con -6!TheScreamingEagles said:Correction to the Opinium poll
Con 36 (-6)
Lab 40 (nc)
LD 8 (+1)
UKIP 8 (+5)
When was the last time we saw a collapse as dramatic as this? October/November 2007?
We better hope Nick Griffin does not start getting ideas!
In my opinion we are heading for a hard Brexit or remain but getting there will see blood on the floor
Whether this will leave enough support to achieve at least a blocking minority sufficient to exclude a Corbyn government is indeed uncertain.0 -
Seriously, what a bunch of.....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/07/14/airbus-fury-loss-raf-deal-brexit-warning/
Airbus bosses are furious after the Government spurred them to publish a dire forecast of the impact of Brexit before handing a prize £2bn RAF contract to US rival Boeing without a competition.
The Telegraph has learnt that last month’s bombshell warning from Airbus that it could be forced to leave the UK came after discussions with senior Remainer ministers preparing for the Chequers summit.
I thought Blairs lot were bad , but ffs
0 -
A bit of point and click plus a visual novel. Quite touching but so far not much of a game - more a visual depiction of the novel with some branches to choose from. But early days.kle4 said:
What kind of game mechanics are we talking here? Walking simulator? Point and click? Visual Novel?NickPalmer said:
On less controversial matter, I'm trying the RPG "The Pillars of the Earth" based on the Follett book set in 1100-odd about a man who dreams of building a cathedral. Positively the first game where I've been asked to deliver a baby in the first 5 minutes...0 -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXB9823Qg9Eydoethur said:
If you think either of those things are 'experiments,' please never go into nuclear physics. We've only got one planet.chloe said:I can’t stand Corbyn but Brexit is just as much an experiment as Corbyn’s policies are. So if UKIP is revived for a few years because May does not follow a Hard Brexit path and we end up with Corbyn for 5 years so be it. We shouldn’t follow a Brexit path just to please the hardline Brexiteers who are motivated by nothing else. This is the future of the country at stake and we should follow the least risky Brexit path.
0 -
Brexit will drive us to Boeing if Airbus leave.Floater said:Seriously, what a bunch of.....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/07/14/airbus-fury-loss-raf-deal-brexit-warning/
Airbus bosses are furious after the Government spurred them to publish a dire forecast of the impact of Brexit before handing a prize £2bn RAF contract to US rival Boeing without a competition.
The Telegraph has learnt that last month’s bombshell warning from Airbus that it could be forced to leave the UK came after discussions with senior Remainer ministers preparing for the Chequers summit.
I thought Blairs lot were bad , but ffs
0 -
To be fair, the novel is pretty crap too.NickPalmer said:
A bit of point and click plus a visual novel. Quite touching but so far not much of a game - more a visual depiction of the novel with some branches to choose from. But early days.kle4 said:
What kind of game mechanics are we talking here? Walking simulator? Point and click? Visual Novel?NickPalmer said:
On less controversial matter, I'm trying the RPG "The Pillars of the Earth" based on the Follett book set in 1100-odd about a man who dreams of building a cathedral. Positively the first game where I've been asked to deliver a baby in the first 5 minutes...0 -
You missed the bit when Daffy and Marvin blew up the planet.Sunil_Prasannan said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXB9823Qg9ydoethur said:
If you think either of those things are 'experiments,' please never go into nuclear physics. We've only got one planet.chloe said:I can’t stand Corbyn but Brexit is just as much an experiment as Corbyn’s policies are. So if UKIP is revived for a few years because May does not follow a Hard Brexit path and we end up with Corbyn for 5 years so be it. We shouldn’t follow a Brexit path just to please the hardline Brexiteers who are motivated by nothing else. This is the future of the country at stake and we should follow the least risky Brexit path.
0 -
Blimey, Mandy lining up with Jacob Cream-Crackers...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/14/mandelson-brexiters-may-eu-humiliation-opinium-poll0 -
I have a feeling that many hardliners are saying they would vote UKIP just now as a way of protesting May's proposed deal. If the GE doesn't take place for another 4 years I would expect most off them to slither back to the Conservatives once the dust has settled and they are staring a Corbyn government in the face.DavidL said:
No. She will get a deal. It will not be a good deal but it will still be better than no deal. And she will drive that through successfully. The consequences for the party are less certain.Big_G_NorthWales said:
I don't think she has done much wrong but is caught in a pincer with hard Brexiteers and those who want to remain.surby said:
You have gone off May, haven't you ? Until recently, May could do no wrong.HYUFD said:
First she revived Corbyn now she has revived Farage.nunuone said:
Only Theresa May could revive the dead UKIP corpse back to life.GIN1138 said:
LOL! Con -6!TheScreamingEagles said:Correction to the Opinium poll
Con 36 (-6)
Lab 40 (nc)
LD 8 (+1)
UKIP 8 (+5)
When was the last time we saw a collapse as dramatic as this? October/November 2007?
We better hope Nick Griffin does not start getting ideas!
In my opinion we are heading for a hard Brexit or remain but getting there will see blood on the floor0 -
Can he really hang on as an MP after that?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Airbus are playing a game they can not win.Floater said:Seriously, what a bunch of.....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/07/14/airbus-fury-loss-raf-deal-brexit-warning/
Airbus bosses are furious after the Government spurred them to publish a dire forecast of the impact of Brexit before handing a prize £2bn RAF contract to US rival Boeing without a competition.
The Telegraph has learnt that last month’s bombshell warning from Airbus that it could be forced to leave the UK came after discussions with senior Remainer ministers preparing for the Chequers summit.
I thought Blairs lot were bad , but ffs0 -
I suspect he wont be the Tory candidate at the next general election.Benpointer said:
Can he really hang on as an MP after that?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I know! That was the punchline and I can't find it on YT!ydoethur said:
You missed the bit when Daffy and Marvin blew up the planet.Sunil_Prasannan said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXB9823Qg9ydoethur said:
If you think either of those things are 'experiments,' please never go into nuclear physics. We've only got one planet.chloe said:I can’t stand Corbyn but Brexit is just as much an experiment as Corbyn’s policies are. So if UKIP is revived for a few years because May does not follow a Hard Brexit path and we end up with Corbyn for 5 years so be it. We shouldn’t follow a Brexit path just to please the hardline Brexiteers who are motivated by nothing else. This is the future of the country at stake and we should follow the least risky Brexit path.
0 -
It is obvious he sees political capital in crashing the deal and campaigning that staying in is the only choice.Benpointer said:Blimey, Mandy lining up with Jacob Cream-Crackers...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/14/mandelson-brexiters-may-eu-humiliation-opinium-poll
Politics0 -
Double post0
-
He will not be standing or will fall to achieve re-erection?TheScreamingEagles said:
I suspect he wont be the Tory candidate at the next general election.Benpointer said:
Can he really hang on as an MP after that?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
If that is his plan it's a very Mandelson over-think. He's just as likely to facilitate no deal and look an idiot while the rest of us suffer.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is obvious he sees political capital in crashing the deal and campaigning that staying in is the only choice.Benpointer said:Blimey, Mandy lining up with Jacob Cream-Crackers...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/14/mandelson-brexiters-may-eu-humiliation-opinium-poll
Politics
0 -
Indeedydoethur said:
If that is his plan it's a very Mandelson over-think. He's just as likely to facilitate no deal and look an idiot while the rest of us suffer.Big_G_NorthWales said:
It is obvious he sees political capital in crashing the deal and campaigning that staying in is the only choice.Benpointer said:Blimey, Mandy lining up with Jacob Cream-Crackers...
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/14/mandelson-brexiters-may-eu-humiliation-opinium-poll
Politics0 -
The HoC can huff and puff but they can’t stop us leaving the EU in March 2019. They ceded that control when they voted to trigger Art 50 (thanks Gina).Big_G_NorthWales said:Just of interest what happens if TM refuses the EU compromises and walks away to prepare for a hard Brexit
UKIP flood back and the HOC stops it
They can no confidence the Govt, possibly, but I can’t see another Tory having better luck nor any Tory want to go to the country with a chance of Corbz winning. Except Boris, perhaps...
I fully expect the EU to ask for compromises that are not possible (dividing the UK from customs POV, FoM etc). This deal gives her enough cover to say to the Remainers ‘we tried it your way, the EU are instranisgent, so we’re going for a barebones deal and transition to WTO’. And get that 5% back, too.0 -
Could create an opening for you TSE - though I am not sure 5 years on the opposition benches would be much fun.TheScreamingEagles said:
I suspect he wont be the Tory candidate at the next general election.Benpointer said:
Can he really hang on as an MP after that?TheScreamingEagles said:
0 -
Is this your prediction?Mortimer said:
I fully expect the EU to ask for compromises that are not possible (dividing the UK from customs POV, FoM etc). This deal gives her enough cover to say to the Remainers ‘we tried it your way, the EU are instranisgent, so we’re going for a barebones deal and transition to WTO’. And get that 5% back, too.Big_G_NorthWales said:Just of interest what happens if TM refuses the EU compromises and walks away to prepare for a hard Brexit
UKIP flood back and the HOC stops it0 -
I knew at a very young age that being an MP was not for me.Benpointer said:
Could create an opening for you TSE - though I am not sure 5 years on the opposition benches would be much fun.TheScreamingEagles said:
I suspect he wont be the Tory candidate at the next general election.Benpointer said:
Can he really hang on as an MP after that?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Yep. I don’t see them accepting this deal without FoM.Gardenwalker said:
Is this your prediction?Mortimer said:
I fully expect the EU to ask for compromises that are not possible (dividing the UK from customs POV, FoM etc). This deal gives her enough cover to say to the Remainers ‘we tried it your way, the EU are instranisgent, so we’re going for a barebones deal and transition to WTO’. And get that 5% back, too.Big_G_NorthWales said:Just of interest what happens if TM refuses the EU compromises and walks away to prepare for a hard Brexit
UKIP flood back and the HOC stops it0 -
Doubt it. They have huge followings in America as well.AndyJS said:Perhaps UKIP on 8% is something to do with Paul Joseph Watson and Sargon of Akkad joining the party with their millions of YouTube followers.
This is something much, much bigger. Remoaners will ignore it at their peril.0 -
Very wise.TheScreamingEagles said:
I knew at a very young age that being an MP was not for me.Benpointer said:
Could create an opening for you TSE - though I am not sure 5 years on the opposition benches would be much fun.TheScreamingEagles said:
I suspect he wont be the Tory candidate at the next general election.Benpointer said:
Can he really hang on as an MP after that?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I'm not sure that reflects well on Airbus.Floater said:Seriously, what a bunch of.....
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2018/07/14/airbus-fury-loss-raf-deal-brexit-warning/
Airbus bosses are furious after the Government spurred them to publish a dire forecast of the impact of Brexit before handing a prize £2bn RAF contract to US rival Boeing without a competition.
The Telegraph has learnt that last month’s bombshell warning from Airbus that it could be forced to leave the UK came after discussions with senior Remainer ministers preparing for the Chequers summit.
I thought Blairs lot were bad , but ffs0 -
Plus I expect you can't afford the pay cut!TheScreamingEagles said:
I knew at a very young age that being an MP was not for me.Benpointer said:
Could create an opening for you TSE - though I am not sure 5 years on the opposition benches would be much fun.TheScreamingEagles said:
I suspect he wont be the Tory candidate at the next general election.Benpointer said:
Can he really hang on as an MP after that?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
If he represented a constituency like Richmond Park, probably not. But I suspect people in Burton-on-Trent will be more forgiving.Benpointer said:
Can he really hang on as an MP after that?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I think CCHQ did me a favour by rejecting me. I think I would have got heavily into debt as a candidate, and if elected, I would not have enjoyed myself.TheScreamingEagles said:
I knew at a very young age that being an MP was not for me.Benpointer said:
Could create an opening for you TSE - though I am not sure 5 years on the opposition benches would be much fun.TheScreamingEagles said:
I suspect he wont be the Tory candidate at the next general election.Benpointer said:
Can he really hang on as an MP after that?TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
It is only a hard Brexit which will keep Corbyn out and prevent Tory Leavers moving to UKIP it seems.SeanT said:If the end result of Brexit is a Corbyn government, I will officially regret my Leave vote.
These polls are dire for the Tories. Theresa May is far, far worse than Brown or Major. She has to go, but when? I suppose Tories must let her deliver her awful Brexit, then sack her in April, and blame it all on her.
But Holy Christ, GET RID OF THIS AUTISTIC COW
If there was a 2nd referendum right now, I'm not sure how I'd vote. Probably - just about - LEAVE, but bloody hell I am not at all sure.
So either choice not great for the country or the economy0 -
Two senior ministers resign and the government's poll rating takes a knock. In other shock news the sun is predicted to rise again tomorrow.
Come on Tory PB snowflakes, get a grip! It's one poll ffs!0 -
Interesting that Labour's share isn't up in this poll compared to the general election. In fact it's down slightly. The problem is almost entirely a swing from Tory to UKIP.SeanT said:If the end result of Brexit is a Corbyn government, I will officially regret my Leave vote.
These polls are dire for the Tories. Theresa May is far, far worse than Brown or Major. She has to go, but when? I suppose Tories must let her deliver her awful Brexit, then sack her in April, and blame it all on her.
But Holy Christ, GET RID OF THIS AUTISTIC COW
If there was a 2nd referendum right now, I'm not sure how I'd vote. Probably - just about - LEAVE, but bloody hell I am not at all sure.0 -
Just remember I called this Con collapse at around 10pm on 6th July when everyone on here was saying Theresa had played a blinder bitch slapping the Brexiteers.... 0
-
To be fair to Kim Jong Un he does have some conservative characteristics which is maybe why he got on so well with Trump.Ishmael_Z said:
I am surprised you haven't emigrated to north Korea, in that case.HYUFD said:
No for the umpteenth time monarchy and support for a strong nation state are the epitome of conservatism.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Monarchy is such a Socialist institution!TheScreamingEagles said:
Consider:
* A monarch has a "job for a life", so quintessentially Socialist!
* The hereditary principle is so common among Socialist dynasties around the world, such as the Kims in North Korea, the Nehru-Gandhis in India, and the Benn Kinnocks in the UK!
* Pomp and circumstance: Trooping the Colour is merely a scaled down version of all those tightly choreographed North Korean parades!
So, I put it to you, PBers, that Monarchy = Socialism!
...
However conservatives really support constitutional monarchy not absolute monarchy and dictatorship0 -
That seems to be the plan or they'd have acted to remove her right now - which actually means her Brexit is probably not as awful as they are pretending (or at least that they have no viable plan they can pursue instead, even if they want to) or they surely would have acted. If they refuse to, it surely cannot be as bad as they say. If they pretend they would but it is too late, that is no excuse, since they could have moved earlier. Ergo, it may well be bad, but it is not as bad as they say.SeanT said:
These polls are dire for the Tories. Theresa May is far, far worse than Brown or Major. She has to go, but when? I suppose Tories must let her deliver her awful Brexit, then sack her in April, and blame it all on her.
As for poll numbers, Tories need to calm down. I find it incredible that people expected any Brexit option to get through without the governing party dropping support, particularly given on a harder Brexit prospectus May ended up losing seats to Labour, albeit still coming out on top.
I happen to think that the Tories would have struggled to win reelection anyway in 2022, if we make it that far, but I see nothing compelling in there being a big drop now they are committed. Polls like this will be normal until the transition period I suspect, and then a new leader needs to rebuild. Seriously, Brexit got 52% and we all know that different leavers had different ideas of a good deal, or no deal. And as we get further toward the midterm we know oppositions would expect poll leads. The Tories should have expected a period of being behind, perhaps for some time (they already were for over 6 months).0 -
There is a sad possibility that no-one in the party could do better: the divide is too deep. Put a Europhile in and the Europhobes will whinge and complain; some may even jump ship to another party. Put a Europhobe in and the Europhiles will whinge and complain.SeanT said:If the end result of Brexit is a Corbyn government, I will officially regret my Leave vote.
These polls are dire for the Tories. Theresa May is far, far worse than Brown or Major. She has to go, but when? I suppose Tories must let her deliver her awful Brexit, then sack her in April, and blame it all on her.
But Holy Christ, GET RID OF THIS AUTISTIC COW
If there was a 2nd referendum right now, I'm not sure how I'd vote. Probably - just about - LEAVE, but bloody hell I am not at all sure.
Put someone in who can see (or play) both sides, and both sides will whinge and complain. The issue is too much of an article of faith for some.
I fail to see *any* Tory short of a reanimated corpse of the blessed saint Maggie who can fix this problem. It requires people to be adults and not children.
Sadly, it appears that is too much to ask of the Conservative Party ...0 -
Most likely those Con > UKIP swicthers would actually stay at home (unless Farage comes back) in a real election,AndyJS said:
Interesting that Labour's share isn't up in this poll compared to the general election. In fact it's down slightly. The problem is almost entirely a swing from Tory to UKIP.SeanT said:If the end result of Brexit is a Corbyn government, I will officially regret my Leave vote.
These polls are dire for the Tories. Theresa May is far, far worse than Brown or Major. She has to go, but when? I suppose Tories must let her deliver her awful Brexit, then sack her in April, and blame it all on her.
But Holy Christ, GET RID OF THIS AUTISTIC COW
If there was a 2nd referendum right now, I'm not sure how I'd vote. Probably - just about - LEAVE, but bloody hell I am not at all sure.
But Jezza won't care. As long as he can win the election 40% to Con 30-35% won't mind how he does it...0
