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One of my favourite history books , the Rise and Fall of Great Powers made the point that the Gilt rate in London remained below the bond rate in Paris throughout the Napoleonic wars and this had more than an incidental effect on the outcome. There are some similarities.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. L, fantastic, yet also completely ****ing mental.
Just think what we'd be doing if we had a Roman mindset.
Mr. D, *sighs*0 -
Don’t think Scotty was there.RobD said:
I wonder if anyone said “Rome Cannae take any more, consul”Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Z, talking of wars and so forth I just watched a video which reminded me that at Cannae, Rome lost about 20% of its adult male population in a day. Germany, apparently, lost 6% of its adult male population during the whole course of World War One.
Puts the Roman attitude in the Second Punic War in perspective. The day after Cannae, the field upon which Hannibal's army was encamped was sold at full market price.
That was the slightly disturbing height of Rome's patriotism.
Oh, my coat?
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Cold War post-Empire British foreign policy was simple: keep the Germans down, the Americans in, and the Russians out. The former has failed, the second is teetering, and the third doesn't seem to be something we wish to stop.HYUFD said:
Of course ironically it is now Germany which effectively runs the EU, which we have now Brexited from.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positively blase about the Battle of Britain.foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the war or broght up on Commando comics it does.AlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
They are like prom queens, turning up at every school reunion desperate to recapture the moment when they were briefly top of the world.
Remembrance is fine, but Britain's obsession with Our Finest Hour heavily distorts our world view.
It is the unifiying and founding "myth" of the post-communist Putin state. And good luck to them, they basically won that war on land and in Eurasia, and lost 20m people. Rediscovering this shared narrative has given them back pride and self belief after the failure of the Soviet Union (and they needed it)
But we, the Brits, won WW2 in the West, by standing alone alongside our Empire, allowing time for America to join its English speaking cousins in fighting evil. This is our recent and foundational national story.
All successful nations have these stories. Ours just happens to be one of the best, and truest. And it crucially divides us from the rest of the EU, who were either conquered or feebly neutral or actively on the side of the Nazis (or indeed actual Nazis)
This psychopolitical faultine basically explains Brexit, by itself.
And by the way, the EU is the same in reverse. It constantly justifies its existence (and ever closer harmony) by referring back to.... the horrors of the Second World War,0 -
Not so. You may be interested in this analysis:HYUFD said:
Of course ironically it is now Germany which effectively runs the EU, which we have now Brexited from.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positively blase about the Battle of Britain.foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the war or broght up on Commando comics it does.AlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
They are like prom queens, turning up at every school reunion desperate to recapture the moment when they were briefly top of the world.
Remembrance is fine, but Britain's obsession with Our Finest Hour heavily distorts our world view.
It is the unifiying and founding "myth" of the post-communist Putin state. And good luck to them, they basically won that war on land and in Eurasia, and lost 20m people. Rediscovering this shared narrative has given them back pride and self belief after the failure of the Soviet Union (and they needed it)
But we, the Brits, won WW2 in the West, by standing alone alongside our Empire, allowing time for America to join its English speaking cousins in fighting evil. This is our recent and foundational national story.
All successful nations have these stories. Ours just happens to be one of the best, and truest. And it crucially divides us from the rest of the EU, who were either conquered or feebly neutral or actively on the side of the Nazis (or indeed actual Nazis)
This psychopolitical faultine basically explains Brexit, by itself.
And by the way, the EU is the same in reverse. It constantly justifies its existence (and ever closer harmony) by referring back to.... the horrors of the Second World War,
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/is-the-uk-marginalised-in-the-eu-2/
In reality (see fig 1 and 2 in the link) we had our way on more issues than any other major EU country, during the years analysed. More than Germany.0 -
Yes we should never have left the EFTA we joined and helped set up in 1960 for the EEC in 1973 but stayed there with Switzerland and Norway. Maybe in time we can return to it with Sweden and Denmark rejoining it too, after all like us they never joined the Eurozone.SeanT said:
This stuff may seem trivial to emotional pedants, but it matters. I am fairly sure the French have never "forgiven" us for winning Word War 2, and sheltering De Gaulle and the Free French in the meantime, so they could rebuild, even as their entire nation was conquered and humiliated. They sincerely thank us, but deep down the dishonour rankles.foxinsoxuk said:
Russian foreign policy is equally distorted by its WW2 history.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positivelyhe Second World War,foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the warAlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
The difference between our view (and the Russians*) and that of the EU is that we see the war as our finest hour, the EU see it as something never to be repeated.
* Many of the "Russians" that you mention were people from places that in 1940 and again post 1990 not part of Russia. Poles, Balts, Jews, Bessarabians, Ukranians etc. Their view of the war is more ambivalent than the place that we now know as Russia.
This mentality certainly lay behind the original French "Non" to UK EU membership in the 60s. They were justifiably worried we would assume moral leadership.
Ironically the French were right. We made two major postwar errors. We should have joined the EU in the 50s, when we had moral supremacy, and formed it to fit us, by 1973 we should have stayed in EFTA, because it turned out all we needed was Thatcher not the Common Market.0 -
Don’t worry, I’m here all dayMorris_Dancer said:Mr. L, fantastic, yet also completely ****ing mental.
Just think what we'd be doing if we had a Roman mindset.
Mr. D, *sighs*
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Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.
The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.0 -
Germany provides the largest amount of funds for the EU, sends the most MEPs to the European Parliament and the European Central Bank is headquartered in Frankfurt.foxinsoxuk said:
Not so. You may be interested in this analysis:HYUFD said:
Of course ironically it is now Germany which effectively runs the EU, which we have now Brexited from.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positively blase about the Battle of Britain.foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the war or broght up on Commando comics it does.AlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
They are like prom queens, turning up at every school reunion desperate to recapture the moment when they were briefly top of the world.
Remembrance is fine, but Britain's obsession with Our Finest Hour heavily distorts our world view.
It is the unifiying and founding "myth" of the post-communist Putin state. And good luck to them, they basically won that war on land and in Eurasia, and lost 20m people. Rediscovering this shared narrative has given them back pride and self belief after the failure of the Soviet Union orrors of the Second World War,
http://ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/is-the-uk-marginalised-in-the-eu-2/
In reality (see fig 1 and 2 in the link) we had our way on more issues than any other major EU country, during the years analysed. More than Germany.0 -
Did voting "Brexit" make one the more patriotic? Concretely, what would be the criterion for patriotism?0
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O/T:
I'm amazed by the number of articles being written about a 25 year old BBC show that was originally done as a bit of a joke.
https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/tv-radio/2017/10/ghostwatch-halloween-hoax-changed-language-television
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/british-haunting-terrifying-totally-true-story-ghostwatch/
http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/2017/10/17/ghostwatch-delivers-real-scares-for-better-or-worse/
https://www.irishnews.com/arts/2017/10/27/news/cult-movie-ghostwatch-scared-the-hell-out-of-us-before-tv-spoofs-were-commonplace-1170221/
https://horrorgeeklife.com/2017/10/15/ghostwatch-25-years/
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The EU prevented the former and we and the Americans are still in NATO, though Russia is not an imminent direct threat to us unlike the Baltic states.viewcode said:
Cold War post-Empire British foreign policy was simple: keep the Germans down, the Americans in, and the Russians out. The former has failed, the second is teetering, and the third doesn't seem to be something we wish to stop.HYUFD said:
Of course ironically it is now Germany which effectively runs the EU, which we have now Brexited from.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positively blase about the Battle of Britain.foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the war or broght up on Commando comics it does.AlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
They are like prom queens, turning up at every school reunion desperate to recapture the moment when they were briefly top of the world.
Remembrance is fine, but Britain's obsession with Our Finest Hour heavily distorts our world view.
It is the unifiying and founding "myth" of the post-communist Putin state. And same in reverse. It constantly justifies its existence (and ever closer harmony) by referring back to.... the horrors of the Second World War,0 -
Nearly all the original EFTA countries joined the EU, including us. They, and we, had good reasons to do so.HYUFD said:
Yes we should never have left the EFTA we joined and helped set up in 1960 for the EEC in 1973 but stayed there with Switzerland and Norway. Maybe in time we can return to it with Sweden and Denmark rejoining it too, after all like us they never joined the Eurozone.SeanT said:
This stuff may seem trivial to emotional pedants, but it matters. I am fairly sure the French have never "forgiven" us for winning Word War 2, and sheltering De Gaulle and the Free French in the meantime, so they could rebuild, even as their entire nation was conquered and humiliated. They sincerely thank us, but deep down the dishonour rankles.foxinsoxuk said:
Russian foreign policy is equally distorted by its WW2 history.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positivelyhe Second World War,foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the warAlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
This mentality certainly lay behind the original French "Non" to UK EU membership in the 60s. They were justifiably worried we would assume moral leadership.
Ironically the French were right. We made two major postwar errors. We should have joined the EU in the 50s, when we had moral supremacy, and formed it to fit us, by 1973 we should have stayed in EFTA, because it turned out all we needed was Thatcher not the Common Market.0 -
Yes it would be ideal.SeanT said:
I think this is quite a likely outcome. I can't see Sweden or Denmark joining the euro (some Eastern European countries might possibly feel the same)HYUFD said:
Yes we should never have left the EFTA we joined and helped set up in 1960 for the EEC in 1973 but stayed there with Switzerland and Norway. Maybe in time we can return to it with Sweden and Denmark rejoining it too, after all like us they never joined the Eurozone.SeanT said:
This semacy, and formed it to fit us, by 1973 we should have stayed in EFTA, because it turned out all we needed was Thatcher not the Common Market.foxinsoxuk said:
Russian foreigsia.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positivelyhe Second World War,foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the warAlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
A eurozone core with a UK-Nordic EFTA periphery (conjoined with NAFTA) seems very sensible to me.
The big puzzler is Ireland. The eurozone will soon demand the Irish harmonise its corporate tax rates (esp now Dublin hasn't got London to defend its position). What will they do?
Now Ireland are in the Eurozone I can't see them leaving the EU though and unlike us they were never in EFTA.0 -
Not all though, Switzerland, Iceland and Norway never did and of the rest ourselves, Sweden and Denmark did not join the Eurozone, only Austria, Portugal and Finland did.foxinsoxuk said:
Nearly all the original EFTA countries joined the EU, including us. They, and we, had good reasons to do so.HYUFD said:
Yes we should never have left the EFTA we joined and helped set up in 1960 for the EEC in 1973 but stayed there with Switzerland and Norway. Maybe in time we can return to it with Sweden and Denmark rejoining it too, after all like us they never joined the Eurozone.SeanT said:
This stuff may seem trivial to emotional pedants, but it matters. I am fairly sure the French have never "forgiven" us for winning Word War 2, and sheltering De Gaulle and the Free French in the meantime, so they could rebuild, even as their entire nation was conquered and humiliated. They sincerely thank us, but deep down the dishonour rankles.foxinsoxuk said:
Russian foreign policy is equally distorted by its WW2 history.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positivelyhe Second World War,foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the warAlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
This mentality certainly lay behind the original French "Non" to UK EU membership in the 60s. They were justifiably worried we would assume moral leadership.
Ironically the French were right. We made two major postwar errors. We should have joined the EU in the 50s, when we had moral supremacy, and formed it to fit us, by 1973 we should have stayed in EFTA, because it turned out all we needed was Thatcher not the Common Market.0 -
The Good Lady went to the Darkest Hour premiere last night, and the party after, where she had a lovely chat with Mr. Oldman.Tykejohnno said:
Can't wait for this film to come out,Gary Oldman has Churchill in Darkest hour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIm9hfDk34k
On the film itself, she said despite the prosthetics, she kept looking at Churchill but seeing the eyes of Dracula....
Tonight she is in Rome for a gala premiere of the Ferrari movie tomorrow as part of the Rome Film Festival. Then we have the London premiere of it on Monday. Then the premiere of Murder on the Orient Express at the Albert Hall on Thursday.
She's developing an allergy to red carpet.0 -
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.
The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.0 -
Indeed. Steve Webb also worthy of mention as pensions minister in the coalition.DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.
The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.
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I hope that a post-Brexit UK is a catalyst for and at the heart of a new economic commonwealth in Europe.HYUFD said:
Yes it would be ideal.SeanT said:
I think this is quite a likely outcome. I can't see Sweden or Denmark joining the euro (some Eastern European countries might possibly feel the same)HYUFD said:
Yes we should never have left the EFTA we joined and helped set up in 1960 for the EEC in 1973 but stayed there with Switzerland and Norway. Maybe in time we can return to it with Sweden and Denmark rejoining it too, after all like us they never joined the Eurozone.SeanT said:
This semacy, and formed it to fit us, by 1973 we should have stayed in EFTA, because it turned out all we needed was Thatcher not the Common Market.foxinsoxuk said:
Russian foreigsia.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positivelyhe Second World War,foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the warAlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
A eurozone core with a UK-Nordic EFTA periphery (conjoined with NAFTA) seems very sensible to me.
The big puzzler is Ireland. The eurozone will soon demand the Irish harmonise its corporate tax rates (esp now Dublin hasn't got London to defend its position). What will they do?
Now Ireland are in the Eurozone I can't see them leaving the EU though and unlike us they were never in EFTA.
The European Economic Commonwealth.
Or EEC for short.0 -
Uh-oh. Stewards’ Enquiry in the F1, involving a certain young Dutchman getting in the way...0
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Anyway, I am off for the night. Will peruse the markets tomorrow. Race could be tight.0
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Yep. The country owes him a considerable debt. Ditto Danny Alexander.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Steve Webb also worthy of mention as pensions minister in the coalition.DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.
The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.0 -
Ishmael_Z said:
I'm almost exactly 4 years younger than Bennet, but unlike him I managed to avoid National Service, the prospect of which which blighted the lives of many, although as usual, it was often worse in propect than in reality. For many young men that did indeed detract from the 50's, although I have absolutely no memory of being envious, or of my contemporaries being envious, of the likes of my father and uncle who served in WWII. Indeed my uncle came back severely injured, having lost a leg, and very nealy his life, in the fighting in Normandy, and was called up for Suez, on the apparent grounds that his leg might have grown back!foxinsoxuk said:
And to another sort of Briton it is something to denigrate because any achievement of their own country must be denigrated. The reason for the anti WW2 satire in Forty Years On and so on was I think that 50s and 60s and 70s Britain was so incredibly fucking drab and boring that Bennett and co were simply envious of the generation that fought the war. I remember from my childhood witnessing a couple of blokes meeting and one saying to the other "Bloody hell, I haven't seen you since Changi Jail." I am sure Changi was pure hell, but that is quite a cool thing to be able to say. Hebephrenic modern day lefties have inherited the attitude without understanding the reason for it.AlastairMeeks said:SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
The war was one of the weirdest and biggest things to have happened in history, ever, and shaped almost every aspect of our modern world. I have also just calculated that when I was born it was a year or so closer in time, than 9/11 is to now, and 9/11 feels like yesterday.
However, no way was 60's or 70's Britain 'drab'; quite the contrary; they were two decades where there was more hope than I can remember since.0 -
An excellent ideaMarqueeMark said:
I hope that a post-Brexit UK is a catalyst for and at the heart of a new economic commonwealth in Europe.HYUFD said:
Yes it would be ideal.SeanT said:
I think this is quite a likely outcome. I can't see Sweden or Denmark joining the euro (some Eastern European countries might possibly feel the same)HYUFD said:
Yes we should never have left the EFTA we joined and helped set up in 1960 for the EEC in 1973 but stayed there with Switzerland and Norway. Maybe in time we can return to it with Sweden and Denmark rejoining it too, after all like us they never joined the Eurozone.SeanT said:
This semacy, and formed it to fit us, by 1973 we should have stayed in EFTA, because it turned out all we needed was Thatcher not the Common Market.foxinsoxuk said:
Russian foreigsia.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positivelyhe Second World War,foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the warAlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
A eurozone core with a UK-Nordic EFTA periphery (conjoined with NAFTA) seems very sensible to me.
The big puzzler is Ireland. The eurozone will soon demand the Irish harmonise its corporate tax rates (esp now Dublin hasn't got London to defend its position). What will they do?
Now Ireland are in the Eurozone I can't see them leaving the EU though and unlike us they were never in EFTA.
The European Economic Commonwealth.
Or EEC for short.0 -
But look at what we lost. Before WW2, you could still argue that "British" was an adjective, a nation: a group of people united by a common allegiance and group-feeling, scattered among many lands. But after WW2, the word "British" came to describe a country: a crop of land with a defined border (even if we ignore/elide it wrt Ireland), a circumscribed Westphalian state off the coast of FranceSeanT said:But we, the Brits, won WW2 in the West, by standing alone alongside our Empire, allowing time for America to join its English speaking cousins in fighting evil. This is our recent and foundational national story.
All successful nations have these stories. Ours just happens to be one of the best, and truest.
WW2 was the cause of that, and the crucial date was not 1940 and Dunkirk, it was 1942 and Singapore and Kokoda . As the war progressed, the Dominions and colonies gradually realised that the British armed forces could not defend them and that their longer-term interest was independence (India) or pivoting towards the US (Australia).
So you are right. It's the UK's founding national myth. But it's also the Empire's gravestone.
0 -
And hopefully one that doesn’t give out free train tickets to 18 years olds to supposedly foster a sense of European-ness.HYUFD said:
An excellent ideaMarqueeMark said:
I hope that a post-Brexit UK is a catalyst for and at the heart of a new economic commonwealth in Europe.HYUFD said:
Yes it would be ideal.SeanT said:
I think this is quite a likely outcome. I can't see Sweden or Denmark joining the euro (some Eastern European countries might possibly feel the same)HYUFD said:
Yes we should never have left the EFTA we joined and helped set up in 1960 for the EEC in 1973 but stayed there with Switzerland and Norway. Maybe in time we can return to it with Sweden and Denmark rejoining it too, after all like us they never joined the Eurozone.SeanT said:
This semacy, and formed it to fit us, by 1973 we should have stayed in EFTA, because it turned out all we needed was Thatcher not the Common Market.foxinsoxuk said:
Russian foreigsia.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positivelyhe Second World War,foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the warAlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
A eurozone core with a UK-Nordic EFTA periphery (conjoined with NAFTA) seems very sensible to me.
The big puzzler is Ireland. The eurozone will soon demand the Irish harmonise its corporate tax rates (esp now Dublin hasn't got London to defend its position). What will they do?
Now Ireland are in the Eurozone I can't see them leaving the EU though and unlike us they were never in EFTA.
The European Economic Commonwealth.
Or EEC for short.0 -
We paid a very high price. But it was worth it.viewcode said:
But look at what we lost. Before WW2, you could still argue that "British" was an adjective, a nation: a group of people united by a common allegiance and group-feeling, scattered among many lands. But after WW2, the word "British" came to describe a country: a crop of land with a defined border (even if we ignore/elide it wrt Ireland), a circumscribed Westphalian state off the coast of FranceSeanT said:But we, the Brits, won WW2 in the West, by standing alone alongside our Empire, allowing time for America to join its English speaking cousins in fighting evil. This is our recent and foundational national story.
All successful nations have these stories. Ours just happens to be one of the best, and truest.
WW2 was the cause of that, and the crucial date was not 1940 and Dunkirk, it was 1942 and Singapore and Kokoda . As the war progressed, the Dominions and colonies gradually realised that the British armed forces could not defend them and that their longer-term interest was independence (India) or pivoting towards the US (Australia).
So you are right. It's the UK's founding national myth. But it's also the Empire's gravestone.0 -
@OldKingCole
I was a child in the Seventies, and don't remember it as drab, though like the Eighties it was a time of great economic turmoil and social change.
I am reminded of my father's view of the Sixties (as a thirty something salesman with young family). "It was a very depressing time. Everyone was trying to emigrate" Indeed we were turned down for a visa to emigrate to Canada because of my mother having TB. A lot depends on personal experience.
I was watching an interesting retrospective last night on the Sex Pistols Christmas gig in Huddersfield for the families of striking firemen. It was a different country then, and not really a better one.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03ncggy/christmas-77-with-the-sex-pistols
Like a lot of programmes made years ago, it is the background s that are most fascinating.0 -
I remember Ghostwatch! It was brilliant!AndyJS said:O/T:
I'm amazed by the number of articles being written about a 25 year old BBC show that was originally done as a bit of a joke.
https://www.newstatesman.com/culture/tv-radio/2017/10/ghostwatch-halloween-hoax-changed-language-television
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/british-haunting-terrifying-totally-true-story-ghostwatch/
http://www.adventuresinpoortaste.com/2017/10/17/ghostwatch-delivers-real-scares-for-better-or-worse/
https://www.irishnews.com/arts/2017/10/27/news/cult-movie-ghostwatch-scared-the-hell-out-of-us-before-tv-spoofs-were-commonplace-1170221/
https://horrorgeeklife.com/2017/10/15/ghostwatch-25-years/
Pause.
OK, I am Brilliant Kid at this point. I'll get my coat...0 -
My father said the same. The 60s were a tough time to be bringing up a young family (including me). He had secure employment in the army but quarters were poor and money very tight.foxinsoxuk said:@OldKingCole
I was a child in the Seventies, and don't remember it as drab, though like the Eighties it was a time of great economic turmoil and social change.
I am reminded of my father's view of the Sixties (as a thirty something salesman with young family). "It was a very depressing time. Everyone was trying to emigrate" Indeed we were turned down for a visa to emigrate to Canada because of my mother having TB. A lot depends on personal experience.
I was watching an interesting retrospective last night on the Sex Pistols Christmas gig in Huddersfield for the families of striking firemen. It was a different country then, and not really a better one.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03ncggy/christmas-77-with-the-sex-pistols
Like a lot of programmes made years ago, it is the background s that are most fascinating.0 -
Britain will be a poverty-stricken island, poorer than Ireland or the other piggies, albeit "free", in contrast to the economic powerhouse of the German-dominated EU.MarqueeMark said:
I hope that a post-Brexit UK is a catalyst for and at the heart of a new economic commonwealth in Europe.HYUFD said:
Yes it would be ideal.SeanT said:
I think this is quite a likely outcome. I can't see Sweden or Denmark joining the euro (some Eastern European countries might possibly feel the same)HYUFD said:
Yes we should never have left the EFTA we joined and helped set up in 1960 for the EEC in 1973 but stayed there with Switzerland and Norway. Maybe in time we can return to it with Sweden and Denmark rejoining it too, after all like us they never joined the Eurozone.SeanT said:
This semacy, and formed it to fit us, by 1973 we should have stayed in EFTA, because it turned out all we needed was Thatcher not the Common Market.foxinsoxuk said:
Russian foreigsia.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positivelyhe Second World War,foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the warAlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
A eurozone core with a UK-Nordic EFTA periphery (conjoined with NAFTA) seems very sensible to me.
The big puzzler is Ireland. The eurozone will soon demand the Irish harmonise its corporate tax rates (esp now Dublin hasn't got London to defend its position). What will they do?
Now Ireland are in the Eurozone I can't see them leaving the EU though and unlike us they were never in EFTA.
The European Economic Commonwealth.
Or EEC for short.0 -
On the other hand, on a salesman's salary, my father, with 3 kids and a wife in and out of hospital could buy a detached house commutable to London. It were different times.DavidL said:
My father said the same. The 60s were a tough time to be bringing up a young family (including me). He had secure employment in the army but quarters were poor and money very tight.foxinsoxuk said:@OldKingCole
I was a child in the Seventies, and don't remember it as drab, though like the Eighties it was a time of great economic turmoil and social change.
I am reminded of my father's view of the Sixties (as a thirty something salesman with young family). "It was a very depressing time. Everyone was trying to emigrate" Indeed we were turned down for a visa to emigrate to Canada because of my mother having TB. A lot depends on personal experience.
I was watching an interesting retrospective last night on the Sex Pistols Christmas gig in Huddersfield for the families of striking firemen. It was a different country then, and not really a better one.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03ncggy/christmas-77-with-the-sex-pistols
Like a lot of programmes made years ago, it is the background s that are most fascinating.
0 -
Tosh.daodao said:
Britain will be a poverty-stricken island, poorer than Ireland or the other piggies, albeit "free", in contrast to the economic powerhouse of the German-dominated EU.MarqueeMark said:
I hope that a post-Brexit UK is a catalyst for and at the heart of a new economic commonwealth in Europe.HYUFD said:
Yes it would be ideal.SeanT said:
I think this is quite a likely outcome. I can't see Sweden or Denmark joining the euro (some Eastern European countries might possibly feel the same)HYUFD said:
Yes we should never have left the EFTA we joined and helped set up in 1960 for the EEC in 1973 but stayed there with Switzerland and Norway. Maybe in time we can return to it with Sweden and Denmark rejoining it too, after all like us they never joined the Eurozone.SeanT said:
This semacy, and formed it to fit us, by 1973 we should have stayed in EFTA, because it turned out all we needed was Thatcher not the Common Market.foxinsoxuk said:
Russian foreigsia.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positivelyhe Second World War,foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the warAlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
A eurozone core with a UK-Nordic EFTA periphery (conjoined with NAFTA) seems very sensible to me.
The big puzzler is Ireland. The eurozone will soon demand the Irish harmonise its corporate tax rates (esp now Dublin hasn't got London to defend its position). What will they do?
Now Ireland are in the Eurozone I can't see them leaving the EU though and unlike us they were never in EFTA.
The European Economic Commonwealth.
Or EEC for short.0 -
Uh huh ! The Forest Ranger. Where is he ? He should have got a safe Tory seat by now for his contributions to the Conservative Party.DavidL said:
Yep. The country owes him a considerable debt. Ditto Danny Alexander.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Steve Webb also worthy of mention as pensions minister in the coalition.DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.
The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.0 -
The wish is father to the thought....daodao said:
Britain will be a poverty-stricken island, poorer than Ireland or the other piggies, albeit "free", in contrast to the economic powerhouse of the German-dominated EU.0 -
Voting, pollingdaodao said:
Britain will be a poverty-stricken island, poorer than Ireland or the other piggies, albeit "free", in contrast to the economic powerhouse of the German-dominated EU.MarqueeMark said:
I hope that a post-Brexit UK is a catalyst for and at the heart of a new economic commonwealth in Europe.HYUFD said:
Yes it would be ideal.SeanT said:
I think this is quite a likely outcome. I can't see Sweden or Denmark joining the euro (some Eastern European countries might possibly feel the same)HYUFD said:
Yes we should never have left the EFTA we joined and helped set up in 1960 for the EEC in 1973 but stayed there with Switzerland and Norway. Maybe in time we can return to it with Sweden and Denmark rejoining it too, after all like us they never joined the Eurozone.SeanT said:
This semacy, and formed it to fit us, by 1973 we should have stayed in EFTA, because it turned out all we needed was Thatcher not the Common Market.foxinsoxuk said:
Russian foreigsia.SeanT said:
Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positivelyhe Second World War,foxinsoxuk said:
To a certain sort of Briton, born during the warAlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
As (esp now Dublin hasn't got London to defend its position). What will they do?
Now Ireland are in the Eurozone I can't see them leaving the EU though and unlike us they were never in EFTA.
The European Economic Commonwealth.
Or EEC for short.
Blogging, trolling
And now I'm alone
In Brexit-Land
My only home0 -
Just catching up on Tracey Ullman’s News programme from last night. Absolutely brilliant, and quite amazing that one person can manage so many different looks and voices. Politicians of all sides (and countries!) can consider themselves well and truly mocked.0
-
I thought the treatment of him by his constituents was appalling after he'd secured them a new stair lift.surbiton said:
Uh huh ! The Forest Ranger. Where is he ? He should have got a safe Tory seat by now for his contributions to the Conservative Party.DavidL said:
Yep. The country owes him a considerable debt. Ditto Danny Alexander.Sandpit said:
Indeed. Steve Webb also worthy of mention as pensions minister in the coalition.DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.
The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.0 -
Alastair Meeks has a bizarre obsession with Leavers.AlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.0 -
Does the map not corroborate population density ?another_richard said:
The variances are interesting.foxinsoxuk said:
Seniors or long term sick, get repeat prescriptions and sell them on in the black market to addicts.MTimT said:
Considerably. In the UK and Europe, the emphasis is on pain management, including learning how to live with pain. In the US:another_richard said:
How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?MTimT said:
What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.
The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
1. the expectation is that patients should self-rate their pain on a scale of 1-10, and should be medicated to a level of 3 or less. Obviously, patients would prefer 0 pain
2. healthcare remuneration is being based partly on patient satisfaction. This results in patients being treated as consumers rather than as patients. They are given antibiotics they don't need, and more pain medication than they need. Pharmaceutical companies compound this problem by advertising their drugs, including narcotics pain medications, directly to the consumer/patient on the TV, with the result that once in the doctor's office, they request named narcotics.
In addition "Pill mill" doctors will prescribe opiates following cursory examination, for a consultation fee.
If Trumpcare doesn't cover addiction treatment for the poor, he ain't going to get anywhere.
The epidemic is out of control. Look at these maps:
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/923790211317948417
Low in the Plains states, Upstate New York and the inner South but high in the West, Appalachia, the coastal South and New England.0 -
She is great.Sandpit said:Just catching up on Tracey Ullman’s News programme from last night. Absolutely brilliant, and quite amazing that one person can manage so many different looks and voices. Politicians of all sides (and countries!) can consider themselves well and truly mocked.
0 -
The trouble is that for those of us non-Tories out there 'distinguished himself in office' often seems to mean - didn't cause any problems for the Tories. It was supposed to be a coalition. If Lib Dems weren't causing Cameron and Osborne headaches what were they doing around the cabinet table?DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.
The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.0 -
I've been a fan of hers since 1983 when They Don't Know was in the charts.surbiton said:
She is great.Sandpit said:Just catching up on Tracey Ullman’s News programme from last night. Absolutely brilliant, and quite amazing that one person can manage so many different looks and voices. Politicians of all sides (and countries!) can consider themselves well and truly mocked.
0 -
Governing. An alien concept for the LibDems, I know. And one unlikely to be repeated.FrankBooth said:
The trouble is that for those of us non-Tories out there 'distinguished himself in office' often seems to mean - didn't cause any problems for the Tories. It was supposed to be a coalition. If Lib Dems weren't causing Cameron and Osborne headaches what were they doing around the cabinet table?DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.
The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.0 -
https://www.smmt.co.uk/vehicle-data/car-registrations/
Sign of things to come. New registrations down 5 months in a row. Only glimmer of hope is engine production - more than 50% exported. As the society says,
"...The European market, which is the destination for the majority of our engines, continues to grow so it’s important we maintain free and frictionless access."0 -
They were improving policy and preventing mistakes. Lamb did good work on mental health, Webb has done as much to put our pension system into a sustainable condition as anyone and Alexander was right to push the increase in personal allowances and other measures to rebalance the tax burden on those that could afford it. The Lib Dem’s should have been damn proud of their contributions to the Coalition. In bad mouthing it they sewed the seeds of their own destruction.FrankBooth said:
The trouble is that for those of us non-Tories out there 'distinguished himself in office' often seems to mean - didn't cause any problems for the Tories. It was supposed to be a coalition. If Lib Dems weren't causing Cameron and Osborne headaches what were they doing around the cabinet table?DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.0 -
When Tories say a Lib Dem 'distinguished himself in office' , what they mean is that they arse-licked the Tories. The Tuition fees was a classic - totally unnecessary. A party committed suicide on the alter of a balanced budget - a budget that will not be balanced until 2025, if ever.FrankBooth said:
The trouble is that for those of us non-Tories out there 'distinguished himself in office' often seems to mean - didn't cause any problems for the Tories. It was supposed to be a coalition. If Lib Dems weren't causing Cameron and Osborne headaches what were they doing around the cabinet table?DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.
The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.
The Lib Dems were sold a pup.0 -
surbiton said:
When Tories say a Lib Dem 'distinguished himself in office' , what they mean is that they arse-licked the Tories. The Tuition fees was a classic - totally unnecessary. A party committed suicide on the alter of a balanced budget - a budget that will not be balanced until 2025, if ever.FrankBooth said:
The trouble is that for those of us non-Tories out there 'distinguished himself in office' often seems to mean - didn't cause any problems for the Tories. It was supposed to be a coalition. If Lib Dems weren't causing Cameron and Osborne headaches what were they doing around the cabinet table?DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.
The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.
The Lib Dems were sold a pup.
The LDs had an opt-out on the tuition fees but, for some inexplicable reason, decided to jump in with both feet.
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Not really. Note the east and west coast.surbiton said:
Does the map not corroborate population density ?another_richard said:
The variances are interesting.foxinsoxuk said:
Seniors or long term sick, get repeat prescriptions and sell them on in the black market to addicts.MTimT said:
Considerably. In the UK and Europe, the emphasis is on pain management, including learning how to live with pain. In the US:another_richard said:
How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?MTimT said:
What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.
The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
1. the expectation is that patients should self-rate their pain on a scale of 1-10, and should be medicated to a level of 3 or less. Obviously, patients would prefer 0 pain
2. healthcare remuneration is being based partly on patient satisfaction. This results in patients being treated as consumers rather than as patients. They are given antibiotics they don't need, and more pain medication than they need. Pharmaceutical companies compound this problem by advertising their drugs, including narcotics pain medications, directly to the consumer/patient on the TV, with the result that once in the doctor's office, they request named narcotics.
In addition "Pill mill" doctors will prescribe opiates following cursory examination, for a consultation fee.
If Trumpcare doesn't cover addiction treatment for the poor, he ain't going to get anywhere.
The epidemic is out of control. Look at these maps:
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/923790211317948417
Low in the Plains states, Upstate New York and the inner South but high in the West, Appalachia, the coastal South and New England.0 -
The EU has a bizarre obsession with the second world war; most French and German europhiles will name the avoidance of a repeat of it as the greatest benefit of its existence.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Alastair Meeks has a bizarre obsession with Leavers.AlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.0 -
People don't just govern do they? The govern according to a set of beliefs. It smacks of extraordinary arrogance of the Tories (and the old born to rule/natural party of government myth) that they believe that they represent nothing more than sensible government. They have values/ideology just like any other party. The Lib Dems have a different one. It's possible for them to work together but why would you expect the to just agree with everything.MarqueeMark said:
Governing. An alien concept for the LibDems, I know. And one unlikely to be repeated.FrankBooth said:
The trouble is that for those of us non-Tories out there 'distinguished himself in office' often seems to mean - didn't cause any problems for the Tories. It was supposed to be a coalition. If Lib Dems weren't causing Cameron and Osborne headaches what were they doing around the cabinet table?DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.
The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.
The fundamental Lib Dem problem for my mind is that David Cameron and George Osborne took over the Tory party in 2005, failed to win the general election of 2010 and then spent the next 5 years doing what they wanted.0 -
And that is the Tories problem how, exactly?FrankBooth said:
People don't just govern do they? The govern according to a set of beliefs. It smacks of extraordinary arrogance of the Tories (and the old born to rule/natural party of government myth) that they believe that they represent nothing more than sensible government. They have values/ideology just like any other party. The Lib Dems have a different one. It's possible for them to work together but why would you expect the to just agree with everything.MarqueeMark said:
Governing. An alien concept for the LibDems, I know. And one unlikely to be repeated.FrankBooth said:
The trouble is that for those of us non-Tories out there 'distinguished himself in office' often seems to mean - didn't cause any problems for the Tories. It was supposed to be a coalition. If Lib Dems weren't causing Cameron and Osborne headaches what were they doing around the cabinet table?DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.
The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.
The fundamental Lib Dem problem for my mind is that David Cameron and George Osborne took over the Tory party in 2005, failed to win the general election of 2010 and then spent the next 5 years doing what they wanted.0 -
Take Back Control!!!
@ShippersUnbound: EXC: Some prisoners to get the vote, Sunday Times reveals tonight0 -
I don't think you can blame them in many ways. It was truly horrific and I think we remain largely ignorant of that here. We've not really acknowledged that the war was a lot worse for them than it was for us.Ishmael_Z said:
The EU has a bizarre obsession with the second world war; most French and German europhiles will name the avoidance of a repeat of it as the greatest benefit of its existence.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Alastair Meeks has a bizarre obsession with Leavers.AlastairMeeks said:
Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.SeanT said:
Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.FF43 said:
Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.stevef said:"Everything is all going to be allright"
Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.
In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:
"In the end, all will be well".
And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.0 -
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Ha ha ha !Scott_P said:0 -
The mind literally boggles.Scott_P said:0 -
I'm not saying it is. I'm just saying it's rather revealing about the mindset of many Tories.MarqueeMark said:
And that is the Tories problem how, exactly?FrankBooth said:
People don't just govern do they? The govern according to a set of beliefs. It smacks of extraordinary arrogance of the Tories (and the old born to rule/natural party of government myth) that they believe that they represent nothing more than sensible government. They have values/ideology just like any other party. The Lib Dems have a different one. It's possible for them to work together but why would you expect the to just agree with everything.MarqueeMark said:
Governing. An alien concept for the LibDems, I know. And one unlikely to be repeated.FrankBooth said:
The trouble is that for those of us non-Tories out there 'distinguished himself in office' often seems to mean - didn't cause any problems for the Tories. It was supposed to be a coalition. If Lib Dems weren't causing Cameron and Osborne headaches what were they doing around the cabinet table?DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.
The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.
The fundamental Lib Dem problem for my mind is that David Cameron and George Osborne took over the Tory party in 2005, failed to win the general election of 2010 and then spent the next 5 years doing what they wanted.0 -
Scott_P said:
That seems perfectly reasonable. I never understood the resistance to integrating prisoners back into society in the first place.
0 -
Good luck getting that through the Commons.Scott_P said:0 -
Indeed. The Lib Dems could have gone into the 2015 election proud of their achievements in government and presenting their priorities for the next five years. Instead, for reasons I don’t really understand, they decided to trash their own achievements and persuade voters in 85% of their MPs’ constituents that electing a Lib Dem again would be a bad idea.DavidL said:
They were improving policy and preventing mistakes. Lamb did good work on mental health, Webb has done as much to put our pension system into a sustainable condition as anyone and Alexander was right to push the increase in personal allowances and other measures to rebalance the tax burden on those that could afford it. The Lib Dem’s should have been damn proud of their contributions to the Coalition. In bad mouthing it they sewed the seeds of their own destruction.FrankBooth said:
The trouble is that for those of us non-Tories out there 'distinguished himself in office' often seems to mean - didn't cause any problems for the Tories. It was supposed to be a coalition. If Lib Dems weren't causing Cameron and Osborne headaches what were they doing around the cabinet table?DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.0 -
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What exactly did Lamb do on mental health? Services are usually seen as being in a state of crisis?DavidL said:
They were improving policy and preventing mistakes. Lamb did good work on mental health, Webb has done as much to put our pension system into a sustainable condition as anyone and Alexander was right to push the increase in personal allowances and other measures to rebalance the tax burden on those that could afford it. The Lib Dem’s should have been damn proud of their contributions to the Coalition. In bad mouthing it they sewed the seeds of their own destruction.FrankBooth said:
The trouble is that for those of us non-Tories out there 'distinguished himself in office' often seems to mean - didn't cause any problems for the Tories. It was supposed to be a coalition. If Lib Dems weren't causing Cameron and Osborne headaches what were they doing around the cabinet table?DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.0 -
Really? On my phone so links beyond me. He stopped it being the Cinderella service. He made major progress in the treatment of younger people in particular. He stood up for a neglected minority in a truly liberal way.FrankBooth said:
What exactly did Lamb do on mental health? Services are usually seen as being in a state of crisis?DavidL said:
They were improving policy and preventing mistakes. Lamb did good work on mental health, Webb has done as much to put our pension system into a sustainable condition as anyone and Alexander was right to push the increase in personal allowances and other measures to rebalance the tax burden on those that could afford it. The Lib Dem’s should have been damn proud of their contributions to the Coalition. In bad mouthing it they sewed the seeds of their own destruction.FrankBooth said:
The trouble is that for those of us non-Tories out there 'distinguished himself in office' often seems to mean - didn't cause any problems for the Tories. It was supposed to be a coalition. If Lib Dems weren't causing Cameron and Osborne headaches what were they doing around the cabinet table?DavidL said:
Norman Lamb, like a number of Lib Dem’s , distinguished himself in office. Cable is not in that number.foxinsoxuk said:
Norman Lamb. Other parties give him great credjit for his work on social care.TwistedFireStopper said:
That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.foxinsoxuk said:
The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.TwistedFireStopper said:
Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.MikeSmithson said:
Which side is good and which side evil?AlastairMeeks said:
Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?Morris_Dancer said:
*Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.0 -
Theresa May is doing something else I approve of.
That's twice this week.0 -
So far only paper have tweeted their front page by a quarter to 10.
This worries me.0 -
The Patron Saint of Catalonia is... St George.
Just saying...0 -
Any names mentioned in the Sunday Times front page BBC scandal story, or is it all anonymous?
So if not the ST, who has the Westminster pervert story, and will there be a midnight embargo on it?0 -
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the Sunday Sport is out...TheScreamingEagles said:So far only paper have tweeted their front page by a quarter to 10.
This worries me.0 -
I wonder if we would have declared war if the decision had been put to a referendum.SeanT said:
A wonderful book.MTimT said:
Actually, if you read "Five Days in London, May 1940", you might learn that in 1940 we did have a choice (negotiate/treat or resist) and that Churchill had to work hard to achieve agreement on the resist path.FF43 said:"We" stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation.
https://www.amazon.com/Five-Days-London-May-1940/dp/0300084668
In 1939 Britain was still the world's superpower (albeit with surging and very powerful rivals), a great creditor, London was arguably the centre of the world.
By 1945 London was flattened, the Empire was gone or going, and our debts were so bad we needed American aid.
But we did this voluntarily, to defeat the greatest evil in human history.
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I don't think I've ever done a thread based on a Sunday Sport front page/story.Scott_P said:
the Sunday Sport is out...TheScreamingEagles said:So far only paper have tweeted their front page by a quarter to 10.
This worries me.
Lord knows I've tried.0 -
@ShippersUnbound: Former Tory minister told female secretary “come and feel the length of my dick” and formed “shagging double act” with grandee. Sunday Times0
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@ShippersUnbound: Senior cabinet minister grabbed a woman’s thigh and said “god I love those tits”. See Sunday Times0
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@ShippersUnbound: Theresa May gets regular updates on MPs’ sexual indiscretions known as “the ins and outs” briefing. See Sunday Times0
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Alleged surelyScott_P said:@ShippersUnbound: Former Tory minister told female secretary “come and feel the length of my dick” and formed “shagging double act” with grandee. Sunday Times
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Sounds like the Mellorphant Man.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Think everyone needs to take care tonightBig_G_NorthWales said:
Alleged surelyScott_P said:@ShippersUnbound: Former Tory minister told female secretary “come and feel the length of my dick” and formed “shagging double act” with grandee. Sunday Times
0 -
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Crabb?
HAHAHAHAHAHA!0 -
To think I feel bad when I ask my executive assistants to go get my lunch.Scott_P said:
Edit - I see they've named the minister.0 -
Can May sack a Brexiteer?TheScreamingEagles said:Edit - I see they've named the minister.
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The scale is overdose deaths per 100 000 inhabitants, so should be already adjusted for density.surbiton said:
Does the map not corroborate population density ?another_richard said:
The variances are interesting.foxinsoxuk said:
Seniors or long term sick, get repeat prescriptions and sell them on in the black market to addicts.MTimT said:
Considerably. In the UK and Europe, the emphasis is on pain management, including learning how to live with pain. In the US:another_richard said:
How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?MTimT said:
What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.
The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
1. the expectation is that patients should self-rate their pain on a scale of 1-10, and should be medicated to a level of 3 or less. Obviously, patients would prefer 0 pain
2. healthcare remuneration is being based partly on patient satisfaction. This results in patients being treated as consumers rather than as patients. They are given antibiotics they don't need, and more pain medication than they need. Pharmaceutical companies compound this problem by advertising their drugs, including narcotics pain medications, directly to the consumer/patient on the TV, with the result that once in the doctor's office, they request named narcotics.
In addition "Pill mill" doctors will prescribe opiates following cursory examination, for a consultation fee.
If Trumpcare doesn't cover addiction treatment for the poor, he ain't going to get anywhere.
The epidemic is out of control. Look at these maps:
https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/923790211317948417
Low in the Plains states, Upstate New York and the inner South but high in the West, Appalachia, the coastal South and New England.
This may break down a bit in very large states with low population density. Wyoming has fewer than 600 000 people for example. I think the areas shown are county level, and many of these must have fewer than 100 000 people.
The consistent pattern over the years suggest a real phenomenon. New York is doing something right.
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Tabloid paper clutches pearls at the thought of women being used as sex objects, next to picture of Trinny's exposed cleavage. Why does this not surprise me?Scott_P said:
They say politics is showbiz for ugly people. It seems to be true...
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He was a Remainer.Scott_P said:
Can May sack a Brexiteer?TheScreamingEagles said:Edit - I see they've named the minister.
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Excellent observationfoxinsoxuk said:
Tabloid paper clutches pearls at the thought of women being used as sex objects, next to picture of Trinny's exposed cleavage. Why does this not surprise me?Scott_P said:
They say politics is showbiz for ugly people. It seems to be true...0 -
The Mark Garnier story is up
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5027709/Brexit-Minister-Mark-Garnier-sent-PA-buy-sex-toys.html0 -
The morning thread is not going to be the Westminster harassment story.
I don't have that much mind bleach.0 -
That's him gone, then.TheScreamingEagles said:The Mark Garnier story is up
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5027709/Brexit-Minister-Mark-Garnier-sent-PA-buy-sex-toys.html0 -
Sorry, tuned out. What episode of House of Cards are we discussing?0
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Not as funny as Brooks Newmark texting photos of his privates to a journalist.0
