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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Concerned about Brexit/Trump/Catalonia/Etc? A special message

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  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2017
    This Grieg/Dacre proxy battle is hilarious.

    The consequences of the allegations/behaviour on individuals/families, less so.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,084

    Scott_P said:
    Tabloid paper clutches pearls at the thought of women being used as sex objects, next to picture of Trinny's exposed cleavage. Why does this not surprise me?

    They say politics is showbiz for ugly people. It seems to be true...

    That's what the Mail does... Outrage at nudity, see all on pages 5,6,7,8,10&13.
  • Options
    valleyboy said:

    tlg86 said:

    Crabb?

    HAHAHAHAHAHA!

    Yep, my flaming MP. Cant see him getting over this.
    Seems it happened in 2010 and it is why he stood down from the leadership.

    Not sure he will resign his seat over it but his re-election was always unlikely
  • Options
    Sean_F said:
    He's admitted it. Can't see how he can stay on. Serious enough for him to quit as an MP and cause a by election?
  • Options
    PongPong Posts: 4,693
    edited October 2017
    Pong said:

    This Grieg/Dacre proxy battle is hilarious.

    The consequences of the allegations/behaviour on individuals/families, less so.

    The gloves are off...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaydTJqZoIM
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    Bugger, never knew viz was on the web. That's all my time wasted from now till Christmas.
  • Options
    hunchmanhunchman Posts: 2,591
    Its great that all these sexual misdemeanours are coming to the surface tonight, but its high time that financial misdemeanours which anyone can investigate by going through Companies House records of MP's came to the surface as well. That requires going through reams and reams of paperwork, that many find boring, but its highly highly illuminating when you know where to look.
  • Options
    Rudd backs Boris for PM apparently
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,522
    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?
  • Options

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Not just politics, seems BBC have big problems
  • Options
    Allegations against Oxfam according to Sky reviewer.
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    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    So it turns out the October suprise was a year late.

    I see the first Mueller indictment has been handed down.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,304

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
  • Options
    tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,468

    Allegations against Oxfam according to Sky reviewer.

    Doesn't surprise me.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Not just politics, seems BBC have big problems
    I suspect journalism is the same, and not just the BBC in the media.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,522
    Anthony Joshua surely nailed on for SPOTY?
  • Options
    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,581
    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Why do men, in so many walks of life (neither the City or the law are immune to this sort of behaviour), find it so difficult to behave in a civilised manner? Dare I say it, why do they find it so difficult to behave like gentlemen?

    This may be an old-fashioned view but some of us think that the essence of being an adult man is that you don’t behave like a 14-year old boy.
  • Options

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Not just politics, seems BBC have big problems
    I suspect journalism is the same, and not just the BBC in the media.
    Agree for the second time tonight Dr Fox

    The question is where will this end. The two conservative mps named tonight look like the tip of an iceberg
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    This isn’t taking risks. This is behaving like an uncouth boor.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    You have to turn the question around and ponder whether people with very low levels would ever want to be politicians. The answer is clearly no, in a British context. Might be okay in Scandinavia.
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Why do men, in so many walks of life (neither the City or the law are immune to this sort of behaviour), find it so difficult to behave in a civilised manner? Dare I say it, why do they find it so difficult to behave like gentlemen?

    This may be an old-fashioned view but some of us think that the essence of being an adult man is that you don’t behave like a 14-year old boy.

    I can honestly say I have never been involved in anything that would be unacceptable to a woman . I do believe drink plays a big part in some of the unacceptable behaviour
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
    I’ve heard this explanation before and it’s always sounded like an excuse (“Poor me, I’m so driven to be the CEO that I can’t stop myself putting my hands up your skirt.”) Give me a break. If you have that much determination you have enough to control your urges. You’re not some rutting stag, for God’s sake.

    Having a strong sex drive is no excuse for boorish behaviour and bullying. There are plenty of ways of satisfying a sex drive without humiliating secretaries or leering at girls young enough to be your daughter.
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Why do men, in so many walks of life (neither the City or the law are immune to this sort of behaviour), find it so difficult to behave in a civilised manner? Dare I say it, why do they find it so difficult to behave like gentlemen?

    This may be an old-fashioned view but some of us think that the essence of being an adult man is that you don’t behave like a 14-year old boy.

    I think I might have to start adding a section entitled to 'How to be a gentleman' to my training guides for new starters.

    All my guides begin with 'You should listen to me because I know you will not do well in prison'
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Why do men, in so many walks of life (neither the City or the law are immune to this sort of behaviour), find it so difficult to behave in a civilised manner? Dare I say it, why do they find it so difficult to behave like gentlemen?

    This may be an old-fashioned view but some of us think that the essence of being an adult man is that you don’t behave like a 14-year old boy.

    I can honestly say I have never been involved in anything that would be unacceptable to a woman . I do believe drink plays a big part in some of the unacceptable behaviour
    I wouldn’t imagine anything else of you, Mr Big G. From your posts you strike me as the epitome of old-fashioned gentlemanly Toryism at its best. And I mean that as a compliment.
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Why do men, in so many walks of life (neither the City or the law are immune to this sort of behaviour), find it so difficult to behave in a civilised manner? Dare I say it, why do they find it so difficult to behave like gentlemen?

    This may be an old-fashioned view but some of us think that the essence of being an adult man is that you don’t behave like a 14-year old boy.

    I can honestly say I have never been involved in anything that would be unacceptable to a woman . I do believe drink plays a big part in some of the unacceptable behaviour
    I wouldn’t imagine anything else of you, Mr Big G. From your posts you strike me as the epitome of old-fashioned gentlemanly Toryism at its best. And I mean that as a compliment.
    That is a very kind comment. Actually my role model was my late Father who was the epitome of a gentleman.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Icelandic election live results page:

    http://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/elections2017/
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Why do men, in so many walks of life (neither the City or the law are immune to this sort of behaviour), find it so difficult to behave in a civilised manner? Dare I say it, why do they find it so difficult to behave like gentlemen?

    This may be an old-fashioned view but some of us think that the essence of being an adult man is that you don’t behave like a 14-year old boy.

    I think I might have to start adding a section entitled to 'How to be a gentleman' to my training guides for new starters.

    All my guides begin with 'You should listen to me because I know you will not do well in prison'
    I’m way ahead of you. I have already had to teach quite a number of young men how to behave. They’re left in no doubt about how to behave and what to expect if they don’t.

    (I am available for a reasonable fee. And worth every penny.)
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Why do men, in so many walks of life (neither the City or the law are immune to this sort of behaviour), find it so difficult to behave in a civilised manner? Dare I say it, why do they find it so difficult to behave like gentlemen?

    This may be an old-fashioned view but some of us think that the essence of being an adult man is that you don’t behave like a 14-year old boy.

    I think I might have to start adding a section entitled to 'How to be a gentleman' to my training guides for new starters.

    All my guides begin with 'You should listen to me because I know you will not do well in prison'
    I’m way ahead of you. I have already had to teach quite a number of young men how to behave. They’re left in no doubt about how to behave and what to expect if they don’t.

    (I am available for a reasonable fee. And worth every penny.)
    Some women touch men on various parts of their bodies without asking first, but of course very few men complain about it. It happened to me on a plane a few months ago when the woman sitting next to me thought it was okay to touch my leg for no particular reason.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Why do men, in so many walks of life (neither the City or the law are immune to this sort of behaviour), find it so difficult to behave in a civilised manner? Dare I say it, why do they find it so difficult to behave like gentlemen?

    This may be an old-fashioned view but some of us think that the essence of being an adult man is that you don’t behave like a 14-year old boy.

    I can honestly say I have never been involved in anything that would be unacceptable to a woman . I do believe drink plays a big part in some of the unacceptable behaviour
    I wouldn’t imagine anything else of you, Mr Big G. From your posts you strike me as the epitome of old-fashioned gentlemanly Toryism at its best. And I mean that as a compliment.
    That is a very kind comment. Actually my role model was my late Father who was the epitome of a gentleman.
    So was mine. He too was a gentleman. And he armed me against such behaviour by showing me that men can and do behave well, even successful ones. And that those who don’t are the ones at fault, who should be ashamed and who lose their dignity. Not the women they behave badly to.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    Cyclefree said:



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
    I’ve heard this explanation before and it’s always sounded like an excuse (“Poor me, I’m so driven to be the CEO that I can’t stop myself putting my hands up your skirt.”) Give me a break. If you have that much determination you have enough to control your urges. You’re not some rutting stag, for God’s sake.

    Having a strong sex drive is no excuse for boorish behaviour and bullying. There are plenty of ways of satisfying a sex drive without humiliating secretaries or leering at girls young enough to be your daughter.
    I agree.

    I have not encountered such behaviour during my career in Medicine. Maybe I am too naive to notice. Maybe people are just good at doing these things away from disapproving eyes.

    Sexual overtures between people of very different ages and career power are ripe for abusive behaviour. Any profession where patronage matters for career progress is even more ripe for abuse.

  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,395
    AndyJS said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    You have to turn the question around and ponder whether people with very low levels would ever want to be politicians. The answer is clearly no, in a British context. Might be okay in Scandinavia.
    Never saw much of a link myself. I think the link only works for a certain type of look-at-me!!! politician. Couild you imagine Frank Field, Oliver Letwin, Vince Cable assaulting women?
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    AndyJS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Why do men, in so many walks of life (neither the City or the law are immune to this sort of behaviour), find it so difficult to behave in a civilised manner? Dare I say it, why do they find it so difficult to behave like gentlemen?

    This may be an old-fashioned view but some of us think that the essence of being an adult man is that you don’t behave like a 14-year old boy.

    I think I might have to start adding a section entitled to 'How to be a gentleman' to my training guides for new starters.

    All my guides begin with 'You should listen to me because I know you will not do well in prison'
    I’m way ahead of you. I have already had to teach quite a number of young men how to behave. They’re left in no doubt about how to behave and what to expect if they don’t.

    (I am available for a reasonable fee. And worth every penny.)
    Some women touch men on various parts of their bodies without asking first, but of course very few men complain about it. It happened to me on a plane a few months ago when the woman sitting next to me thought it was okay to touch my leg for no particular reason.
    Well you should say something. It’s an invasion of privacy. And boorish behaviour is no more acceptable from a woman than a man.
  • Options
    AndyJS said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Why do men, in so many walks of life (neither the City or the law are immune to this sort of behaviour), find it so difficult to behave in a civilised manner? Dare I say it, why do they find it so difficult to behave like gentlemen?

    This may be an old-fashioned view but some of us think that the essence of being an adult man is that you don’t behave like a 14-year old boy.

    I think I might have to start adding a section entitled to 'How to be a gentleman' to my training guides for new starters.

    All my guides begin with 'You should listen to me because I know you will not do well in prison'
    I’m way ahead of you. I have already had to teach quite a number of young men how to behave. They’re left in no doubt about how to behave and what to expect if they don’t.

    (I am available for a reasonable fee. And worth every penny.)
    Some women touch men on various parts of their bodies without asking first, but of course very few men complain about it. It happened to me on a plane a few months ago when the woman sitting next to me thought it was okay to touch my leg for no particular reason.
    I remember being at a conference many years ago when the late Diana Lamplugh, the mother of Suzy, making the exact same point about the surprising number of assaults on men but that they do not complain about it
  • Options
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Why do men, in so many walks of life (neither the City or the law are immune to this sort of behaviour), find it so difficult to behave in a civilised manner? Dare I say it, why do they find it so difficult to behave like gentlemen?

    This may be an old-fashioned view but some of us think that the essence of being an adult man is that you don’t behave like a 14-year old boy.

    I can honestly say I have never been involved in anything that would be unacceptable to a woman . I do believe drink plays a big part in some of the unacceptable behaviour
    I wouldn’t imagine anything else of you, Mr Big G. From your posts you strike me as the epitome of old-fashioned gentlemanly Toryism at its best. And I mean that as a compliment.
    That is a very kind comment. Actually my role model was my late Father who was the epitome of a gentleman.
    So was mine. He too was a gentleman. And he armed me against such behaviour by showing me that men can and do behave well, even successful ones. And that those who don’t are the ones at fault, who should be ashamed and who lose their dignity. Not the women they behave badly to.
    Absolutely
  • Options
    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,581
    edited October 2017
    Cyclefree said:



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who
    Cyclefree said:



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
    I’ve heard this explanation before and it’s always sounded like an excuse (“Poor me, I’m so driven to be the CEO that I can’t stop myself putting my hands up your skirt.”) Give me a break. If you have that much determination you have enough to control your urges. You’re not some rutting stag, for God’s sake.

    Having a strong sex drive is no excuse for boorish behaviour and bullying. There are plenty of ways of satisfying a sex drive without humiliating secretaries or leering at girls young enough to be your daughter.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,412
    edited October 2017
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Why do men, in so many walks of life (neither the City or the law are immune to this sort of behaviour), find it so difficult to behave in a civilised manner? Dare I say it, why do they find it so difficult to behave like gentlemen?

    This may be an old-fashioned view but some of us think that the essence of being an adult man is that you don’t behave like a 14-year old boy.

    I think I might have to start adding a section entitled to 'How to be a gentleman' to my training guides for new starters.

    All my guides begin with 'You should listen to me because I know you will not do well in prison'
    I’m way ahead of you. I have already had to teach quite a number of young men how to behave. They’re left in no doubt about how to behave and what to expect if they don’t.

    (I am available for a reasonable fee. And worth every penny.)
    On more than one occasion I had to go through some of the emails of our staff for dispute resolution.

    Even I blushed at the sexual comments contained in them.

    Yes, me.
  • Options
    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,068
    Still no Sun on Sunday (ex-News of the Screws) front page? That’s where I’d expect the juiciest Parliamentary kiss and tells to be...
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269

    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Why do men, in so many walks of life (neither the City or the law are immune to this sort of behaviour), find it so difficult to behave in a civilised manner? Dare I say it, why do they find it so difficult to behave like gentlemen?

    This may be an old-fashioned view but some of us think that the essence of being an adult man is that you don’t behave like a 14-year old boy.

    I think I might have to start adding a section entitled to 'How to be a gentleman' to my training guides for new starters.

    All my guides begin with 'You should listen to me because I know you will not do well in prison'
    I’m way ahead of you. I have already had to teach quite a number of young men how to behave. They’re left in no doubt about how to behave and what to expect if they don’t.

    (I am available for a reasonable fee. And worth every penny.)
    On more than one occasion I had to go through some of the emails of our staff for dispute resolution.

    Even I blushed at the sexual comments contained in them.

    Yes, me.
    I have had to do this too. Stuff in there to make you blench. I used some of the worst examples in a series of talks I gave on “Communications”. You could have heard a pin drop in the lecture hall when I showed people the examples of what staff were sending, not just to each other within the firm, but outside it too. Some people could not believe their eyes. There was genuine shock. And some others were deeply embarrassed when they realised someone old enough to be their mother was reading their stuff.

    Very little shocked me. Some of it sickened me though. There was one particularly revolting case, where I felt “dirty” after days trawling through the evidence.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Cyclefree said:



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
    I’ve heard this explanation before and it’s always sounded like an excuse (“Poor me, I’m so driven to be the CEO that I can’t stop myself putting my hands up your skirt.”) Give me a break. If you have that much determination you have enough to control your urges. You’re not some rutting stag, for God’s sake.

    Having a strong sex drive is no excuse for boorish behaviour and bullying. There are plenty of ways of satisfying a sex drive without humiliating secretaries or leering at girls young enough to be your daughter.
    Indeed, all the research I have seen indicates that the two things that are most predictive of the highest levels of success in any field are:

    1. self-control and
    2. a big capacity for delayed-gratification.

    Lack of self-control is strongly predictive of failure.

    Which makes me think that the likes of Weinstein - successful men who prey on women - are all the more evil as they clearly do have self-control, and only let loose their baser instincts when they judge it to be sufficiently safe - i.e. when they know the power differential is sufficient to scare the female out of reporting it.
  • Options
    anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,581
    Cyclefree said:



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
    I’ve heard this explanation before and it’s always sounded like an excuse (“Poor me, I’m so driven to be the CEO that I can’t stop myself putting my hands up your skirt.”) Give me a break. If you have that much determination you have enough to control your urges. You’re not some rutting stag, for God’s sake.

    Having a strong sex drive is no excuse for boorish behaviour and bullying. There are plenty of ways of satisfying a sex drive without humiliating secretaries or leering at girls young enough to be your daughter.
    I was not trying to make excuses. Just offer an explanation. A combination of drive and risk- seeking means that politics is likely to attract more than its fair share of sexual pests.

  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
    I’ve heard this explanation before and it’s always sounded like an excuse (“Poor me, I’m so driven to be the CEO that I can’t stop myself putting my hands up your skirt.”) Give me a break. If you have that much determination you have enough to control your urges. You’re not some rutting stag, for God’s sake.

    Having a strong sex drive is no excuse for boorish behaviour and bullying. There are plenty of ways of satisfying a sex drive without humiliating secretaries or leering at girls young enough to be your daughter.
    Indeed, all the research I have seen indicates that the two things that are most predictive of the highest levels of success in any field are:

    1. self-control and
    2. a big capacity for delayed-gratification.

    Lack of self-control is strongly predictive of failure.

    Which makes me think that the likes of Weinstein - successful men who prey on women - are all the more evil as they clearly do have self-control, and only let loose their baser instincts when they judge it to be sufficiently safe - i.e. when they know the power differential is sufficient to scare the female out of reporting it.
    Indeed. Plus if what has been reported is half-way true his idea of sex seems both deeply inadequate and pathetic, as well as scary and humiliating for the woman concerned.

    All this alpha male bollocks is just rationalising vile behaviour. I do it because I’m a bully and I can get away with it. It’s still bollocks, whatever pseudo-scientific Greek word you describe it as.
  • Options
    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,395
    AndyJS said:



    Some women touch men on various parts of their bodies without asking first, but of course very few men complain about it. It happened to me on a plane a few months ago when the woman sitting next to me thought it was okay to touch my leg for no particular reason.

    Encountered this too from colleagues in various jobs, at a level too marginal to complain about (in my view) - tapping my knee, rubbing my shoulder, etc. in what I'd call an amiably flirtatious way. I do think that using flirting to oil the wheels is quite common, and generally not much objected to, so long as it's clearly light-hearted and *between equals*. It would be entirely unacceptable from a boss.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,020
    edited October 2017
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
    I’ve heard this explanation before and it’s always sounded like an excuse (“Poor me, I’m so driven to be the CEO that I can’t stop myself putting my hands up your skirt.”) Give me a break. If you have that much determination you have enough to control your urges. You’re not some rutting stag, for God’s sake.

    Having a strong sex drive is no excuse for boorish behaviour and bullying. There are plenty of ways of satisfying a sex drive without humiliating secretaries or leering at girls young enough to be your daughter.
    Indeed, all the research I have seen indicates that the two things that are most predictive of the highest levels of success in any field are:

    1. self-control and
    2. a big capacity for delayed-gratification.

    Lack of self-control is strongly predictive of failure.

    Which makes me think that the likes of Weinstein - successful men who prey on women - are all the more evil as they clearly do have self-control, and only let loose their baser instincts when they judge it to be sufficiently safe - i.e. when they know the power differential is sufficient to scare the female out of reporting it.
    What a lot of bollocks.

    I'm not excusing predatory men - at all - but the merest glimpse at politics (just one sphere) shows that compulsively sexual, aggressive men have done very well indeed.

    JFK?
    Bill Clinton?
    Lloyd George?
    Mitterand?
    Chirac?
    Berlusconi?
    Bush Senior?
    Gladstone?
    Mussolini?


    High testosterone = high ambition = high achievement = a lot of seduced/ravished women.
    Not forgetting Trump, LBJ, Alan Clark, Prescott and even Robin Cook and John Major of course.

    On the whole I don't think voters are that bothered about sex scandals provided the politician in question is not a hypocrite and constantly preaching family values and they have not done anything illegal.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
    I’ve heard this explanation before and it’s always sounded like an excuse (“Poor me, I’m so driven to be the CEO that I can’t stop myself putting my hands up your skirt.”) Give me a break. If you have that much determination you have enough to control your urges. You’re not some rutting stag, for God’s sake.

    Having a strong sex drive is no excuse for boorish behaviour and bullying. There are plenty of ways of satisfying a sex drive without humiliating secretaries or leering at girls young enough to be your daughter.
    Indeed, all the research I have seen indicates that the two things that are most predictive of the highest levels of success in any field are:

    1. self-control and
    2. a big capacity for delayed-gratification.

    Lack of self-control is strongly predictive of failure.

    Which makes me think that the likes of Weinstein - successful men who prey on women - are all the more evil as they clearly do have self-control, and only let loose their baser instincts when they judge it to be sufficiently safe - i.e. when they know the power differential is sufficient to scare the female out of reporting it.
    What a lot of bollocks.

    I'm not excusing predatory men - at all - but the merest glimpse at politics (just one sphere) shows that compulsively sexual, aggressive men have done very well indeed.

    JFK?
    Bill Clinton?
    Lloyd George?
    Mitterand?
    Chirac?
    Berlusconi?
    Bush Senior?
    Gladstone?
    Mussolini?


    High testosterone = high ambition = high achievement = a lot of seduced/ravished women.
    A fail on 2 counts: some of those you cite had mistresses but that does not mean that they assaulted women without their consent. There are plenty of successful men who aren’t sex pests and plenty of sex pests with high testosterone who are not at all successful.

    And second, seduction is not the same as assault.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
    I’ve heard
    Having a strong sex drive is no excuse for boorish behaviour and bullying. There are plenty of ways of satisfying a sex drive without humiliating secretaries or leering at girls young enough to be your daughter.
    Indeed, all the safe - i.e. when they know the power differential is sufficient to scare the female out of reporting it.
    What a lot of bollocks.

    I'm not excusing predatory men - at all - but the merest glimpse at politics (just one sphere) shows that compulsively sexual, aggressive men have done very well indeed.

    JFK?
    Bill Clinton?
    Lloyd George?
    Mitterand?
    Chirac?
    Berlusconi?
    Bush Senior?
    Gladstone?
    Mussolini?


    High testosterone = high ambition = high achievement = a lot of seduced/ravished women.
    Not forgetting Trump, LBJ, Alan Clark, Prescott and even Robin Cook and John Major of course.

    On the whole I don't think voters are that bothered about sex scandals provided the politician in question is not a hypocrite and constantly preaching family values and they have not done anything illegal.
    Moreover, a LOT of women are highly attracted to very successful/rich/powerful men, even if the women know they will just be another notch-on-the-bedpost. This is particularly true in the arts, especially music (many women will confess they would spend one night with singer x "just because") but it is also true of actors, painters, designers, architects, even writers, and - if they are truly powerful enough - businessmen and politicians.

    Women do this voluntarily. Consensually. So it's not surprising some alpha successful men get the unwarranted feeling they can pretty much fuck who they want.

    This, again, does not excuse, but it explains. It is evolutionary. Women want those alpha genes, albeit subconsciously.
    Yeah: Stephen Crabb and Mark Garnier. Alpha successful men with women throwing themselves at them.. FFS!
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited October 2017
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
    I’ve heard this explanation before and it’s always sounded like an excuse (“Poor me, I’m so driven to be the CEO that I can’t stop myself putting my hands up your skirt.”) Give me a break. If you have that much determination you have enough to control your urges. You’re not some rutting stag, for God’s sake.

    Having a strong sex drive is no excuse for boorish behaviour and bullying. There are plenty of ways of satisfying a sex drive without humiliating secretaries or leering at girls young enough to be your daughter.
    Indeed, all the research I have seen indicates that the two things that are most predictive of the highest levels of success in any field are:

    1. self-control and
    2. a big capacity for delayed-gratification.

    Lack of self-control is strongly predictive of failure.

    Which makes me think that the likes of Weinstein - successful men who prey on women - are all the more evil as they clearly do have self-control, and only let loose their baser instincts when they judge it to be sufficiently safe - i.e. when they know the power differential is sufficient to scare the female out of reporting it.
    What a lot of bollocks.

    I'm not excusing predatory men - at all - but the merest glimpse at politics (just one sphere) shows that compulsively sexual, aggressive men have done very well indeed.

    JFK?
    Bill Clinton?
    Lloyd George?
    Mitterand?
    Chirac?
    Berlusconi?
    Bush Senior?
    Gladstone?
    Mussolini?


    High testosterone = high ambition = high achievement = a lot of seduced/ravished women.
    All done in societies that permitted them to get away with it to the point of encouraging it, and in some of those societies, even lauding it.

    Which makes my point. These men were successful, they knew how to behave better but chose not to and, in most cases, operated in work environments where they were not punished for it, but actually encouraged.

    We can do better as a society, and each of these men could have done better personally, especially if it was made clear to them that such behaviour was not tolerable.

    PS And what Cyclefree said - seduction is not assault or rape.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,020
    edited October 2017
    SeanT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
    I’ve heard
    Having a strong sex drive is no excuse for boorish behaviour and bullying. There are plenty of ways of satisfying a sex drive without humiliating secretaries or leering at girls young enough to be your daughter.
    Indeed, all the safe - i.e. when they know the power differential is sufficient to scare the female out of reporting it.
    What a lot of bollocks.

    I'm not excusing predatory men - at all - but the merest glimpse at politics (just one sphere) shows that compulsively sexual, aggressive men have done very well indeed.

    JFK?
    Bill Clinton?
    Lloyd George?
    Mitterand?
    Chirac?
    Berlusconi?
    Bush Senior?
    Gladstone?
    Mussolini?


    High testosterone = high ambition = high achievement = a lot of seduced/ravished women.
    Not forgetting Trump, LBJ, Alan Clark, Prescott and even Robin Cook and John Major of course.

    On the whole I don't think voters are that bothered about sex scandals provided the politician in question is not a hypocrite and constantly preaching family values and they have not done anything illegal.
    Moreover, a LOT of women are highly attracted to very successful/rich/powerful men, even if the women know they will just be another notch-on-the-bedpost. This is particularly true in the arts, especially music (many women will confess they would spend one night with singer x "just because") but it is also true of actors, painters, designers, architects, even writers, and - if they are truly powerful enough - businessmen and politicians.

    Women do this voluntarily. Consensually. So it's not surprising some alpha successful men get the unwarranted feeling they can pretty much fuck who they want.

    This, again, does not excuse, but it explains. It is evolutionary. Women want those alpha genes, albeit subconsciously.
    There is something in that, look at the love lives of Premiership Footballers as well.

    As Henry Kissinger said 'power is a great aphrodisiac', money and fame too. Look at the number of beautiful women pretty average looking multi millionaires attract.
  • Options
    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
    I’ve heard this explanation before and it’s always sounded like an excuse (“Poor me, I’m so driven to be the CEO that I can’t stop myself putting my hands up your skirt.”) Give me a break. If you have that much determination you have enough to control your urges. You’re not some rutting stag, for God’s sake.

    Having a strong sex drive is no excuse for boorish behaviour and bullying. There are plenty of ways of satisfying a sex drive without humiliating secretaries or leering at girls young enough to be your daughter.
    Indeed, all the research I have seen indicates that the two things that are most predictive of the highest levels of success in any field are:

    1. self-control and
    2. a big capacity for delayed-gratification.

    Lack of self-control is strongly predictive of failure.

    Which makes me think that the likes of Weinstein - successful men who prey on women - are all the more evil as they clearly do have self-control, and only let loose their baser instincts when they judge it to be sufficiently safe - i.e. when they know the power differential is sufficient to scare the female out of reporting it.
    What a lot of bollocks.

    I'm not excusing predatory men - at all - but the merest glimpse at politics (just one sphere) shows that compulsively sexual, aggressive men have done very well indeed.


    High testosterone = high ambition = high achievement = a lot of seduced/ravished women.
    A fail on 2 counts: some of those you cite had mistresses but that does not mean that they assaulted women without their consent. There are plenty of successful men who aren’t sex pests and plenty of sex pests with high testosterone who are not at all successful.

    And second, seduction is not the same as assault.
    Deluded.
    You are giving a master class this evening in showing how men, while not wanting to excuse but merely “explain”, are actually seeking to excuse by reference to all sorts of evolutionary nonsense while ignoring the very simple fact that all men have a choice. And these men chose to behave in a way which was boorish at best and criminal at worst.

    And women are sick to the back teeth of having to put up with both the behaviour and the pathetic explanations for it.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:



    Moreover, a LOT of women are highly attracted to very successful/rich/powerful men, even if the women know they will just be another notch-on-the-bedpost. This is particularly true in the arts, especially music (many women will confess they would spend one night with singer x "just because") but it is also true of actors, painters, designers, architects, even writers, and - if they are truly powerful enough - businessmen and politicians.

    Women do this voluntarily. Consensually. So it's not surprising some alpha successful men get the unwarranted feeling they can pretty much fuck who they want.

    This, again, does not excuse, but it explains. It is evolutionary. Women want those alpha genes, albeit subconsciously.

    There is something in that, look at the love lives of Premiership Footballers as well.

    As Henry Kissinger said 'power is a great aphrodisiac', money and fame too. Look at the number of beautiful women pretty average looking multi millionaires attract.
    But that is not germane to this discussion of men who assault women. That is germane to men who have consensual relations with willing female partners, even if those relations are outside one or other's marriages.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,020
    edited October 2017
    MTimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:



    Moreover, a LOT of women are highly attracted to very successful/rich/powerful men, even if the women know they will just be another notch-on-the-bedpost. This is particularly true in the arts, especially music (many women will confess they would spend one night with singer x "just because") but it is also true of actors, painters, designers, architects, even writers, and - if they are truly powerful enough - businessmen and politicians.

    Women do this voluntarily. Consensually. So it's not surprising some alpha successful men get the unwarranted feeling they can pretty much fuck who they want.

    This, again, does not excuse, but it explains. It is evolutionary. Women want those alpha genes, albeit subconsciously.

    There is something in that, look at the love lives of Premiership Footballers as well.

    As Henry Kissinger said 'power is a great aphrodisiac', money and fame too. Look at the number of beautiful women pretty average looking multi millionaires attract.
    But that is not germane to this discussion of men who assault women. That is germane to men who have consensual relations with willing female partners, even if those relations are outside one or other's marriages.
    None of the newspaper allegations tonight directly relate to actual physical assaults on women either as far as I can see.
  • Options
    Beverley_CBeverley_C Posts: 6,256
    Cyclefree said:

    You are giving a master class this evening in showing how men, while not wanting to excuse but merely “explain”, are actually seeking to excuse by reference to all sorts of evolutionary nonsense while ignoring the very simple fact that all men have a choice. And these men chose to behave in a way which was boorish at best and criminal at worst.

    And women are sick to the back teeth of having to put up with both the behaviour and the pathetic explanations for it.

    :+1::+1::+1::+1::+1:
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,496
    MTimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:



    Moreover, a LOT of women are highly attracted to very successful/rich/powerful men, even if the women know they will just be another notch-on-the-bedpost. This is particularly true in the arts, especially music (many women will confess they would spend one night with singer x "just because") but it is also true of actors, painters, designers, architects, even writers, and - if they are truly powerful enough - businessmen and politicians.

    Women do this voluntarily. Consensually. So it's not surprising some alpha successful men get the unwarranted feeling they can pretty much fuck who they want.

    This, again, does not excuse, but it explains. It is evolutionary. Women want those alpha genes, albeit subconsciously.

    There is something in that, look at the love lives of Premiership Footballers as well.

    As Henry Kissinger said 'power is a great aphrodisiac', money and fame too. Look at the number of beautiful women pretty average looking multi millionaires attract.
    But that is not germane to this discussion of men who assault women. That is germane to men who have consensual relations with willing female partners, even if those relations are outside one or other's marriages.
    It is germane to the fostering or reinforcing of an attitude towards women as sexual objects who neither need nor deserve rights, among those who see sexual availability as a perk of their position.

    As an aside, while it's overwhelmingly men on women, that's a function of power structures and sexual orientation ratios. At some point, a young man is going to accuse a powerful middle-aged woman, which the media will love.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,674
    I'd just like to thank SeanT.

    For a long time, it'd intrigued me why women constantly threw themselves at me.

    Now I know. It's a consequence of being an alpha male.

    Phew. Good to have that sorted out.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:



    Moreover, a LOT of women are highly attracted to very successful/rich/powerful men, even if the women know they will just be another notch-on-the-bedpost. This is particularly true in the arts, especially music (many women will confess they would spend one night with singer x "just because") but it is also true of actors, painters, designers, architects, even writers, and - if they are truly powerful enough - businessmen and politicians.

    Women do this voluntarily. Consensually. So it's not surprising some alpha successful men get the unwarranted feeling they can pretty much fuck who they want.

    This, again, does not excuse, but it explains. It is evolutionary. Women want those alpha genes, albeit subconsciously.

    There is something in that, look at the love lives of Premiership Footballers as well.

    As Henry Kissinger said 'power is a great aphrodisiac', money and fame too. Look at the number of beautiful women pretty average looking multi millionaires attract.
    But that is not germane to this discussion of men who assault women. That is germane to men who have consensual relations with willing female partners, even if those relations are outside one or other's marriages.
    It is germane to the fostering or reinforcing of an attitude towards women as sexual objects who neither need nor deserve rights, among those who see sexual availability as a perk of their position.

    As an aside, while it's overwhelmingly men on women, that's a function of power structures and sexual orientation ratios. At some point, a young man is going to accuse a powerful middle-aged woman, which the media will love.
    Agreed, but it seems some are taking the step further and saying it is an explanation for non-consensual behaviours.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    HYUFD said:

    MTimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:



    Moreover, a LOT of women are highly attracted to very successful/rich/powerful men, even if the women know they will just be another notch-on-the-bedpost. This is particularly true in the arts, especially music (many women will confess they would spend one night with singer x "just because") but it is also true of actors, painters, designers, architects, even writers, and - if they are truly powerful enough - businessmen and politicians.

    Women do this voluntarily. Consensually. So it's not surprising some alpha successful men get the unwarranted feeling they can pretty much fuck who they want.

    This, again, does not excuse, but it explains. It is evolutionary. Women want those alpha genes, albeit subconsciously.

    There is something in that, look at the love lives of Premiership Footballers as well.

    As Henry Kissinger said 'power is a great aphrodisiac', money and fame too. Look at the number of beautiful women pretty average looking multi millionaires attract.
    But that is not germane to this discussion of men who assault women. That is germane to men who have consensual relations with willing female partners, even if those relations are outside one or other's marriages.
    None of the newspaper allegations tonight directly relate to actual physical assaults on women either as far as I can see.

    Sexual assault and harassment do not need to be physical. Asking a secretary to buy sex toys for you when she may not feel herself to be in a position refuse is way past any line I'd care to draw on sexual harassment.
  • Options
    hunchman said:

    Its great that all these sexual misdemeanours are coming to the surface tonight, but its high time that financial misdemeanours which anyone can investigate by going through Companies House records of MP's came to the surface as well. That requires going through reams and reams of paperwork, that many find boring, but its highly highly illuminating when you know where to look.

    Only if one is a fantasist such as yourself. When's sovereign debt crash? Finished quoted the fraudster and liar you seem to hold in such great respect?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,127
    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    Cyclefree said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Cyclefree said:



    Sean_F said:

    Why is politics populated by people with massively over-active libidos?

    Politics attracts people who enjoy taking risks.
    People who have drive and commitment to get to the top in their careers often have strong drives in other aspects of their personalities as well.
    I’ve heard
    Having a strong sex drive is no excuse for boorish behaviour and bullying. There are plenty of ways of satisfying a sex drive without humiliating secretaries or leering at girls young enough to be your daughter.
    Indeed, all the research I have seen indicates that the two things that are most predictive of the highest levels of success in any field are:

    1. self-control and
    2. a big capacity for delayed-gratification.

    Lack of self-control is strongly predictive of failure.

    Which makes me think that the likes of Weinstein - successful men who prey on women - are all the more evil as they clearly do have self-control, and only let loose their baser instincts when they judge it to be sufficiently safe - i.e. when they know the power differential is sufficient to scare the female out of reporting it.
    What a lot of bollocks.

    I'm not excusing predatory men - at all - but the merest glimpse at politics (just one sphere) shows that compulsively sexual, aggressive men have done very well indeed.


    High testosterone = high ambition = high achievement = a lot of seduced/ravished women.
    A fail on 2 counts: some of those you cite had mistresses but that does not mean that they assaulted women without their consent. There are plenty of successful men who aren’t sex pests and plenty of sex pests with high testosterone who are not at all successful.

    And second, seduction is not the same as assault.
    Deluded.
    You are giving a master class this evening in showing how men, while not wanting to excuse but merely “explain”, are actually seeking to excuse by reference to all sorts of evolutionary nonsense while ignoring the very simple fact that all men have a choice. And these men chose to behave in a way which was boorish at best and criminal at worst.

    And women are sick to the back teeth of having to put up with both the behaviour and the pathetic explanations for it.
    No, you’re just being boringly stupid.
    How very tedious for you, Sean, to have to read arguments you don't agree with.
    Makes the ad feminam quite understandable.


  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited October 2017
    Cyclefree said:


    You are giving a master class this evening in showing how men, while not wanting to excuse but merely “explain”, are actually seeking to excuse by reference to all sorts of evolutionary nonsense while ignoring the very simple fact that all men have a choice. And these men chose to behave in a way which was boorish at best and criminal at worst.

    And women are sick to the back teeth of having to put up with both the behaviour and the pathetic explanations for it.

    You are confusing explanation with excuse, and description with prescription. It is a point Richard Dawkins has had to make repeatedly ever since publishing The Selfish Gene that to state that our genes predispose us to attempt to survive and breed at any cost is not to say that we should act accordingly. I am sure you have every reason to be angry, but evolutionary accounts of human behaviour are not nonsense - they are the only game in town; and seeking to explain is not pathetic. If you want to combat something, it helps if you understand it.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,020
    MTimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:



    Moreover, a LOT of women are highly attracted to very successful/rich/powerful men, even if the women know they will just be another notch-on-the-bedpost. This is particularly true in the arts, especially music (many women will confess they would spend one night with singer x "just because") but it is also true of actors, painters, designers, architects, even writers, and - if they are truly powerful enough - businessmen and politicians.

    Women do this voluntarily. Consensually. So it's not surprising some alpha successful men get the unwarranted feeling they can pretty much fuck who they want.

    This, again, does not excuse, but it explains. It is evolutionary. Women want those alpha genes, albeit subconsciously.

    There is something in that, look at the love lives of Premiership Footballers as well.

    As Henry Kissinger said 'power is a great aphrodisiac', money and fame too. Look at the number of beautiful women pretty average looking multi millionaires attract.
    But that is not germane to this discussion of men who assault women. That is germane to men who have consensual relations with willing female partners, even if those relations are outside one or other's marriages.
    None of the newspaper allegations tonight directly relate to actual physical assaults on women either as far as I can see.

    Sexual assault and harassment do not need to be physical. Asking a secretary to buy sex toys for you when she may not feel herself to be in a position refuse is way past any line I'd care to draw on sexual harassment.
    It is not illegal though.
  • Options
    I understand the comments about alpha males etc. We were given an example on an all staff call a few weeks back of a female colleague being complimented on her blouse colour and then asked if her *ahem* undergarments were the same colour. I was really shocked that this had happened in what I consider to be a really progressive employer.

    I have brought my kids up to never say anything to a colleague that they would not be happy to say to their wife, mother or sister. In one son's case that may not result in appropriate responses knowing him.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,101
    Sitting at lunch in the city’s few weeks back the adjacent table had 3 men (40, 30 & 30) and one younger woman (mid twenties, attractive) - the “banter” in particular from the 40- something man who obviously considered himself a bit of a wag) made my blood run cold - but the young lady was laughing along - possibly she was enjoying it, possibly her junior position made confronting it ill advised.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,209
    New thread.
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 36,304
    MTimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    MTimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    SeanT said:



    Moreover, a LOT of women are highly attracted to very successful/rich/powerful men, even if the women know they will just be another notch-on-the-bedpost. This is particularly true in the arts, especially music (many women will confess they would spend one night with singer x "just because") but it is also true of actors, painters, designers, architects, even writers, and - if they are truly powerful enough - businessmen and politicians.

    Women do this voluntarily. Consensually. So it's not surprising some alpha successful men get the unwarranted feeling they can pretty much fuck who they want.

    This, again, does not excuse, but it explains. It is evolutionary. Women want those alpha genes, albeit subconsciously.

    There is something in that, look at the love lives of Premiership Footballers as well.

    As Henry Kissinger said 'power is a great aphrodisiac', money and fame too. Look at the number of beautiful women pretty average looking multi millionaires attract.
    But that is not germane to this discussion of men who assault women. That is germane to men who have consensual relations with willing female partners, even if those relations are outside one or other's marriages.
    None of the newspaper allegations tonight directly relate to actual physical assaults on women either as far as I can see.

    Sexual assault and harassment do not need to be physical. Asking a secretary to buy sex toys for you when she may not feel herself to be in a position refuse is way past any line I'd care to draw on sexual harassment.
    It's pretty creepy.
This discussion has been closed.