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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Concerned about Brexit/Trump/Catalonia/Etc? A special message

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  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,761
    edited October 2017

    Hmm. Current thoughts are that my F1 assumptions are going to be entirely wrong :p

    By the way, no new engine for Ricciardo. He was value at the 19s and 20s earlier in the week.

    Q1 is going to be very busy on track, the 77’ lap is very short and lots of cars have been slowing down through sector 3 to try and make space in front of them.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.
    Trump is talking about the opiod crisis while some Democrats are talking about toilets. That will probably benefit Trump.
  • Options
    stevefstevef Posts: 1,044
    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,012

    In case you missed it, Charles Powell lecture, live tweeted by Adonis, on Mrs T and EU:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/924170360219676672

    Nothing better than hypothetical water under a bridge.
  • Options
    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    You mean we're going to be paying for it decades after it is over and we're going to be diminished by it afterwards?

    Sounds about right
  • Options
    4 v 2 to England now!!

    Young'uns showing how it's done.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    You mean we're going to be paying for it decades after it is over and we're going to be diminished by it afterwards?

    Sounds about right
    Odd to see an eagle in full victim mode. Bit incongruous with the whole bird of prey thing.
  • Options
    RecidivistRecidivist Posts: 4,679
    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    You think this is persuasive? We managed to overcome being bombed by fascists, so risking our relationship with our nearest neighbours should be fine?
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,131
    Only 12 days to go.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,981

    4 v 2 to England now!!

    Young'uns showing how it's done.

    5-2. Just incredible. Are England going to dominate international football for the next decade?
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,131
    Also I'm pleased to see Theresa May is urging victims of sexual assault in Westminster to come forward. Let's see if we can drain the swamp.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    Mr. Sandpit, missed the end of third practice, but agree with your thoughts. I accidentally (forgot he had a penalty) backed Ricciardo at 26 at the start of the week on Betfair. Hedged this morning at 9.

  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
  • Options
    DavidL said:

    4 v 2 to England now!!

    Young'uns showing how it's done.

    5-2. Just incredible. Are England going to dominate international football for the next decade?
    U17 & U20 World Cups
    U18 win Toulon
    U19 win Euros
    U21 semifinalists
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,522
    DavidL said:

    4 v 2 to England now!!

    Young'uns showing how it's done.

    5-2. Just incredible. Are England going to dominate international football for the next decade?
    Symbolic of Brexit? Just when the critics think we are down and out....
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,981

    DavidL said:

    4 v 2 to England now!!

    Young'uns showing how it's done.

    5-2. Just incredible. Are England going to dominate international football for the next decade?
    U17 & U20 World Cups
    U18 win Toulon
    U19 win Euros
    U21 semifinalists
    It is very impressive. So many very able young players. The challenge now is to get them first team football for the better clubs who seemed to have signed them up.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,761

    Mr. Sandpit, missed the end of third practice, but agree with your thoughts. I accidentally (forgot he had a penalty) backed Ricciardo at 26 at the start of the week on Betfair. Hedged this morning at 9.

    You’ve won this week even before qualifying ;)

    Gasly has a new MGU-H as a result of his problem earlier, so he has now 15 penalty places.

    Another thought is to bet on a safety car, they’ve remodelled the first corner chicane with a lot of big kerbs, which combined with the 900m run from the start is more likely than not to end in a crunch somewhere. Betfair market not really going yet though.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Mr Dancer, an F1 question for you. It struck me while walking the dogs today, that Vettel's only serious chance of winning the Championship is for Raikkonen to be under team instructions to take Hamilton out in each of the remaining races.

    If that were to happen (even in one race), what could/would F1 do about it?
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,131
    DavidL said:

    4 v 2 to England now!!

    Young'uns showing how it's done.

    5-2. Just incredible. Are England going to dominate international football for the next decade?
    I wouldn't bet on it (tongue in cheek).
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,522
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    4 v 2 to England now!!

    Young'uns showing how it's done.

    5-2. Just incredible. Are England going to dominate international football for the next decade?
    U17 & U20 World Cups
    U18 win Toulon
    U19 win Euros
    U21 semifinalists
    It is very impressive. So many very able young players. The challenge now is to get them first team football for the better clubs who seemed to have signed them up.
    And to get an able England manager.....
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,522
    MTimT said:

    Mr Dancer, an F1 question for you. It struck me while walking the dogs today, that Vettel's only serious chance of winning the Championship is for Raikkonen to be under team instructions to take Hamilton out in each of the remaining races.

    If that were to happen (even in one race), what could/would F1 do about it?

    Cheer on the Ferrari?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,761
    edited October 2017

    Also I'm pleased to see Theresa May is urging victims of sexual assault in Westminster to come forward. Let's see if we can drain the swamp.

    Corbyn is also giving a speech on the subject tonight, so a cross-party effort.

    There is however going to need to be a very fine line drawn between coming down hard on offenders, ensuring a fair trial and a witch hunt.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    4 v 2 to England now!!

    Young'uns showing how it's done.

    5-2. Just incredible. Are England going to dominate international football for the next decade?
    U17 & U20 World Cups
    U18 win Toulon
    U19 win Euros
    U21 semifinalists
    It is very impressive. So many very able young players. The challenge now is to get them first team football for the better clubs who seemed to have signed them up.
    The NFL and MLB drafts are very sobering in this regard. Very few first picks make it in the Big Leagues.

    Becoming a Michael Jordan or a Mariano Rivera requires not just talent (that these kids obviously have) but the mindset to push past one's current capabilities to ever higher levels of skill through constant hard work and listening to feedback. The listening part requires humility coupled with self-belief. That is the rarest of qualities and requires an excellent coaching and personal development support system.

    Do England have that? Evidence is to the contrary.
  • Options
    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    Mr. Sandpit, it's nonsense like this which is screwing up my numbers.

    I'm ahead this year. But my tipped bets are behind. It's 2016's Spanish Grand Prix, but in bite-sized chunks across a season.

    Anyway, I'd still like Ricciardo to qualify very well.

    Mr. T, if it were blatant, they could give Raikkonen a ban for X races.

    Anyway, to finish off the unusually long pre-qualifying ramble!
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,761
    edited October 2017

    MTimT said:

    Mr Dancer, an F1 question for you. It struck me while walking the dogs today, that Vettel's only serious chance of winning the Championship is for Raikkonen to be under team instructions to take Hamilton out in each of the remaining races.

    If that were to happen (even in one race), what could/would F1 do about it?

    Cheer on the Ferrari?
    As posted by Jos Verstappen last Sunday evening.

    image
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    In the USA the pharmaceutical giants are raking in the money. The doctors are helping them. Somehow nobody mentions this.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    F1: pre-qualifying ramble here:
    http://enormo-haddock.blogspot.co.uk/2017/10/mexico-pre-qualifying-2017.html

    As I mentioned earlier, I included more about early tips, which I usually just mention in passing, so do let me know if that's tedious and should be cut or you prefer the prolonged prognosticating.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:


    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.

    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Considerably. In the UK and Europe, the emphasis is on pain management, including learning how to live with pain. In the US:

    1. the expectation is that patients should self-rate their pain on a scale of 1-10, and should be medicated to a level of 3 or less. Obviously, patients would prefer 0 pain
    2. healthcare remuneration is being based partly on patient satisfaction. This results in patients being treated as consumers rather than as patients. They are given antibiotics they don't need, and more pain medication than they need. Pharmaceutical companies compound this problem by advertising their drugs, including narcotics pain medications, directly to the consumer/patient on the TV, with the result that once in the doctor's office, they request named narcotics.
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    In case none has mentioned it, that's a nice little cartoon from Marf. I'm glad it wasn't Ratty who snuffed it. Actually I'd even sacrifice him to *slightly* undo a bit of recent history.
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Try getting your UK doc to prescribe Xanax or Tramadol. The Brits are incredibly puritan when it comes to any drugs that might just be..... fun (as well as therapeutic)
    Endorphins work pretty well.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,131
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Try getting your UK doc to prescribe Xanax or Tramadol. The Brits are incredibly puritan when it comes to any drugs that might just be..... fun (as well as therapeutic)
    They are nonetheless prescribing a huge number of antidepressants which is a whole other topic.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,761
    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:


    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.

    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Considerably. In the UK and Europe, the emphasis is on pain management, including learning how to live with pain. In the US:

    1. the expectation is that patients should self-rate their pain on a scale of 1-10, and should be medicated to a level of 3 or less. Obviously, patients would prefer 0 pain
    2. healthcare remuneration is being based partly on patient satisfaction. This results in patients being treated as consumers rather than as patients. They are given antibiotics they don't need, and more pain medication than they need. Pharmaceutical companies compound this problem by advertising their drugs, including narcotics pain medications, directly to the consumer/patient on the TV, with the result that once in the doctor's office, they request named narcotics.
    If asked for the biggest culture difference between the UK and the US, it has to be marketing of pharmaceuticals. It feels like 75% of TV adverts are for prescription-only drugs “Ask your physician for...” and the drugs themselves are basically synthetic heroin and amphetamines.

    In the UK we’d only ever think of these drugs for terminal pain relief or exteme depression, but in the US they’re handed out like Smarties.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:


    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.

    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Considerably. In the UK and Europe, the emphasis is on pain management, including learning how to live with pain. In the US:

    1. the expectation is that patients should self-rate their pain on a scale of 1-10, and should be medicated to a level of 3 or less. Obviously, patients would prefer 0 pain
    2. healthcare remuneration is being based partly on patient satisfaction. This results in patients being treated as consumers rather than as patients. They are given antibiotics they don't need, and more pain medication than they need. Pharmaceutical companies compound this problem by advertising their drugs, including narcotics pain medications, directly to the consumer/patient on the TV, with the result that once in the doctor's office, they request named narcotics.
    Seniors or long term sick, get repeat prescriptions and sell them on in the black market to addicts.

    In addition "Pill mill" doctors will prescribe opiates following cursory examination, for a consultation fee.

    If Trumpcare doesn't cover addiction treatment for the poor, he ain't going to get anywhere.

    The epidemic is out of control. Look at these maps:


    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/923790211317948417
  • Options
    AnnaAnna Posts: 59

    In case you missed it, Charles Powell lecture, live tweeted by Adonis, on Mrs T and EU:

    https://twitter.com/Andrew_Adonis/status/924170360219676672

    Ironically - Thatcher did advocate leaving if the EU wouldn't negotiate a better deal https://www.amazon.co.uk/Europe-Margaret-Thatcher/dp/0008257361/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,761
    F1. Looks like Gasly also needs a new engine, which is unsurprising. He’s not going to make qualifying.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    Miss Anna, we leave in strange times when an ex-Labour minister laments that the current PM isn't enough like Thatcher.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,127
    surbiton said:

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    In the USA the pharmaceutical giants are raking in the money. The doctors are helping them. Somehow nobody mentions this.
    While true, prescription drugs account for somewhere around 10% of US healthcare spend, so their system is fncked up in a lot more ways than that.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:


    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.

    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Considerably. In the UK and Europe, the emphasis is on pain management, including learning how to live with pain. In the US:

    1. the expectation is that patients should self-rate their pain on a scale of 1-10, and should be medicated to a level of 3 or less. Obviously, patients would prefer 0 pain
    2. healthcare remuneration is being based partly on patient satisfaction. This results in patients being treated as consumers rather than as patients. They are given antibiotics they don't need, and more pain medication than they need. Pharmaceutical companies compound this problem by advertising their drugs, including narcotics pain medications, directly to the consumer/patient on the TV, with the result that once in the doctor's office, they request named narcotics.
    Seniors or long term sick, get repeat prescriptions and sell them on in the black market to addicts.

    In addition "Pill mill" doctors will prescribe opiates following cursory examination, for a consultation fee.

    If Trumpcare doesn't cover addiction treatment for the poor, he ain't going to get anywhere.

    The epidemic is out of control. Look at these maps:


    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/923790211317948417
    Yep to all that
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,084

    Miss Anna, we leave in strange times when an ex-Labour minister laments that the current PM isn't enough like Thatcher.

    Thatcher was bad, but not useless.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,674

    Pulpstar said:

    Was round a friends last night, a friend of hers has just started working for the NHS; and she's noticed a huge amount of wasteful practice there (Disposal of unopened kit !).
    She voted Corbyn last time before anyone wonders if it was the local Tory association.

    The biggest waste in the NHS is people not taking care of themselves. It is our NHS and it is our responsibility to look after our own health.

    Start with diet, exercise and smoking. Lots of savings for the NHS there.
    However, people living longer means more pension payments.

    Ideally we want people to live healthily until retirement, before quietly - errr - moving on.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    Hardly alone in 1940. Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, India inc Pakistan and a good chunk of Africa, SE Asia and islands. Roughly 25% of the land resources and population of the globe were with us.

    Post Brexit...
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    MTimT said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    4 v 2 to England now!!

    Young'uns showing how it's done.

    5-2. Just incredible. Are England going to dominate international football for the next decade?
    U17 & U20 World Cups
    U18 win Toulon
    U19 win Euros
    U21 semifinalists
    It is very impressive. So many very able young players. The challenge now is to get them first team football for the better clubs who seemed to have signed them up.
    The NFL and MLB drafts are very sobering in this regard. Very few first picks make it in the Big Leagues.
    The NFL draft is completely wacky due to the huge differences between the college game and the NFL. They are very far apart at the moment and that makes things like drafting offensive linemen very hard to do.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,674
    Re the US and opioids.

    Think of it like this: 35 times as many people die of opioid overdoses in the US than die in road accidents in the UK.
  • Options
    TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited October 2017
    Jonathan said:

    Miss Anna, we leave in strange times when an ex-Labour minister laments that the current PM isn't enough like Thatcher.

    Thatcher was bad, but not useless.
    She was, for instance, and unusually, apparently numerate
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited October 2017
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Was round a friends last night, a friend of hers has just started working for the NHS; and she's noticed a huge amount of wasteful practice there (Disposal of unopened kit !).
    She voted Corbyn last time before anyone wonders if it was the local Tory association.

    The biggest waste in the NHS is people not taking care of themselves. It is our NHS and it is our responsibility to look after our own health.

    Start with diet, exercise and smoking. Lots of savings for the NHS there.
    However, people living longer means more pension payments.

    Ideally we want people to live healthily until retirement, before quietly - errr - moving on.
    Recycling would be more efficient. Perhaps retirees should self present at dog food factories.
  • Options
    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,674
    rcs1000 said:

    Re the US and opioids.

    Think of it like this: 35 times as many people die of opioid overdoses in the US than die in road accidents in the UK.

    76,000 women died of cancer in the UK last year. That's only slightly more than US opioid overdoses.
  • Options

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:


    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.

    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Considerably. In the UK and Europe, the emphasis is on pain management, including learning how to live with pain. In the US:

    1. the expectation is that patients should self-rate their pain on a scale of 1-10, and should be medicated to a level of 3 or less. Obviously, patients would prefer 0 pain
    2. healthcare remuneration is being based partly on patient satisfaction. This results in patients being treated as consumers rather than as patients. They are given antibiotics they don't need, and more pain medication than they need. Pharmaceutical companies compound this problem by advertising their drugs, including narcotics pain medications, directly to the consumer/patient on the TV, with the result that once in the doctor's office, they request named narcotics.
    Seniors or long term sick, get repeat prescriptions and sell them on in the black market to addicts.

    In addition "Pill mill" doctors will prescribe opiates following cursory examination, for a consultation fee.

    If Trumpcare doesn't cover addiction treatment for the poor, he ain't going to get anywhere.

    The epidemic is out of control. Look at these maps:


    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/923790211317948417
    The variances are interesting.

    Low in the Plains states, Upstate New York and the inner South but high in the West, Appalachia, the coastal South and New England.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the US and opioids.

    Think of it like this: 35 times as many people die of opioid overdoses in the US than die in road accidents in the UK.

    76,000 women died of cancer in the UK last year. That's only slightly more than US opioid overdoses.
    Still only about half the number who die of nosocomial infections in US hospitals.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    DavidL said:

    4 v 2 to England now!!

    Young'uns showing how it's done.

    5-2. Just incredible. Are England going to dominate international football for the next decade?
    These kids need first team action and foden could be a world star in the making.
  • Options
    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:


    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.

    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Considerably. In the UK and Europe, the emphasis is on pain management, including learning how to live with pain. In the US:

    1. the expectation is that patients should self-rate their pain on a scale of 1-10, and should be medicated to a level of 3 or less. Obviously, patients would prefer 0 pain
    2. healthcare remuneration is being based partly on patient satisfaction. This results in patients being treated as consumers rather than as patients. They are given antibiotics they don't need, and more pain medication than they need. Pharmaceutical companies compound this problem by advertising their drugs, including narcotics pain medications, directly to the consumer/patient on the TV, with the result that once in the doctor's office, they request named narcotics.
    Thanks.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Try getting your UK doc to prescribe Xanax or Tramadol. The Brits are incredibly puritan when it comes to any drugs that might just be..... fun (as well as therapeutic)
    Does tramadol have recreational value? Asking for a friend.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Re the US and opioids.

    Think of it like this: 35 times as many people die of opioid overdoses in the US than die in road accidents in the UK.

    A comparison with other forms of death within the USA would be more useful.
  • Options
    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Was round a friends last night, a friend of hers has just started working for the NHS; and she's noticed a huge amount of wasteful practice there (Disposal of unopened kit !).
    She voted Corbyn last time before anyone wonders if it was the local Tory association.

    The biggest waste in the NHS is people not taking care of themselves. It is our NHS and it is our responsibility to look after our own health.

    Start with diet, exercise and smoking. Lots of savings for the NHS there.
    However, people living longer means more pension payments.

    Ideally we want people to live healthily until retirement, before quietly - errr - moving on.
    How about when old people have serious medical problems we offer a cash payment for suicide ?

    Aside from stoping the heavy medical expenditure it would reduce the old person's caring costs.
  • Options

    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    Hardly alone in 1940. Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, India inc Pakistan and a good chunk of Africa, SE Asia and islands. Roughly 25% of the land resources and population of the globe were with us.

    Post Brexit...
    We have Peru's finest, Dan Hannan.

    No upper lip stiffer in the face of adversity, no eye moister at the sight of an English autumn, no throat lumpier to the strains of Nimrod.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 64,127

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the US and opioids.

    Think of it like this: 35 times as many people die of opioid overdoses in the US than die in road accidents in the UK.

    A comparison with other forms of death within the USA would be more useful.
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/23/health/heroin-opioid-drug-overdose-deaths-visual-guide/index.html
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,522

    rcs1000 said:

    Re the US and opioids.

    Think of it like this: 35 times as many people die of opioid overdoses in the US than die in road accidents in the UK.

    A comparison with other forms of death within the USA would be more useful.
    I find it interesting that people make huge play about the number of gun deaths in the US - but rarely point out that around 60% of all such gun deaths are suicide... (Farmers in the UK have historically had an easy out with a shotgun.)
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,761
    Ishmael_Z said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Try getting your UK doc to prescribe Xanax or Tramadol. The Brits are incredibly puritan when it comes to any drugs that might just be..... fun (as well as therapeutic)
    Does tramadol have recreational value? Asking for a friend.
    When rappers are talking about these prescription drugs, it’s fair to say there’s excessive recreational use and black market sales going on...
  • Options
    RhubarbRhubarb Posts: 359
    MTimT said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Was round a friends last night, a friend of hers has just started working for the NHS; and she's noticed a huge amount of wasteful practice there (Disposal of unopened kit !).
    She voted Corbyn last time before anyone wonders if it was the local Tory association.

    The biggest waste in the NHS is people not taking care of themselves. It is our NHS and it is our responsibility to look after our own health.

    Start with diet, exercise and smoking. Lots of savings for the NHS there.
    However, people living longer means more pension payments.

    Ideally we want people to live healthily until retirement, before quietly - errr - moving on.
    Recycling would be more efficient. Perhaps retirees should self present at dog food factories.
    Soylent green is granny?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,522

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Was round a friends last night, a friend of hers has just started working for the NHS; and she's noticed a huge amount of wasteful practice there (Disposal of unopened kit !).
    She voted Corbyn last time before anyone wonders if it was the local Tory association.

    The biggest waste in the NHS is people not taking care of themselves. It is our NHS and it is our responsibility to look after our own health.

    Start with diet, exercise and smoking. Lots of savings for the NHS there.
    However, people living longer means more pension payments.

    Ideally we want people to live healthily until retirement, before quietly - errr - moving on.
    How about when old people have serious medical problems we offer a cash payment for suicide ?

    Aside from stoping the heavy medical expenditure it would reduce the old person's caring costs.
    Twenty five percent of their projected medical care costs? IHT free....

    Ditto for dementia. But admittedly, that is more complicated. You will have to have previously put that in place in a living will. And someone (ie the State) will have to oversee it once mental capability is impaired. Which by the very nature of the desease, it would be.

    At some point in this century, these discussions will commence. Huge kudos to the first politicians to stick their head above the parapet on those discussions.
  • Options
    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237
    Sandpit said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Try getting your UK doc to prescribe Xanax or Tramadol. The Brits are incredibly puritan when it comes to any drugs that might just be..... fun (as well as therapeutic)
    Does tramadol have recreational value? Asking for a friend.
    When rappers are talking about these prescription drugs, it’s fair to say there’s excessive recreational use and black market sales going on...
    There was huge abuse problem with tramadol which is why it was made a schedule 3 CD. GPs round here seem to dole them out like Smarties. Diazepam and zopiclone seem to have a street value now too.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Was round a friends last night, a friend of hers has just started working for the NHS; and she's noticed a huge amount of wasteful practice there (Disposal of unopened kit !).
    She voted Corbyn last time before anyone wonders if it was the local Tory association.

    The biggest waste in the NHS is people not taking care of themselves. It is our NHS and it is our responsibility to look after our own health.

    Start with diet, exercise and smoking. Lots of savings for the NHS there.
    However, people living longer means more pension payments.

    Ideally we want people to live healthily until retirement, before quietly - errr - moving on.
    How about when old people have serious medical problems we offer a cash payment for suicide ?

    Aside from stoping the heavy medical expenditure it would reduce the old person's caring costs.
    Twenty five percent of their projected medical care costs? IHT free....

    Ditto for dementia. But admittedly, that is more complicated. You will have to have previously put that in place in a living will. And someone (ie the State) will have to oversee it once mental capability is impaired. Which by the very nature of the desease, it would be.

    At some point in this century, these discussions will commence. Huge kudos to the first politicians to stick their head above the parapet on those discussions.
    Let's just work towards elective euthanasia with no money either way, perhaps, before further incentivising the heirs to guilt the elderly person into an early grave. I would dearly love to have a painless and guaranteed exit from the boredom and indignity of a demented old age in a care home, but it is an area rich in potential unintended consequences.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    edited October 2017
    F1: few minutes until qualifying kicks off.

    Edited extra bit: ****ing hell. Commentator just said 'quite unique'.

    .....
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,369
    Ishmael_Z said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Try getting your UK doc to prescribe Xanax or Tramadol. The Brits are incredibly puritan when it comes to any drugs that might just be..... fun (as well as therapeutic)
    Does tramadol have recreational value? Asking for a friend.
    I suspect that, back in the mid 90's, I was one of thise who saw very early patients with psychic side-effects from Tramadol. We..... nurses and I ....... had several arguments with prescribers obver it.
  • Options
    Chris_AChris_A Posts: 1,237

    Ishmael_Z said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Try getting your UK doc to prescribe Xanax or Tramadol. The Brits are incredibly puritan when it comes to any drugs that might just be..... fun (as well as therapeutic)
    Does tramadol have recreational value? Asking for a friend.
    I suspect that, back in the mid 90's, I was one of thise who saw very early patients with psychic side-effects from Tramadol. We..... nurses and I ....... had several arguments with prescribers obver it.
    I've seen patients with stock piles of several hundred. They presumably don't take it for the side effects but keep having them prescribed.
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,522
    Ishmael_Z said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Was round a friends last night, a friend of hers has just started working for the NHS; and she's noticed a huge amount of wasteful practice there (Disposal of unopened kit !).
    She voted Corbyn last time before anyone wonders if it was the local Tory association.

    The biggest waste in the NHS is people not taking care of themselves. It is our NHS and it is our responsibility to look after our own health.

    Start with diet, exercise and smoking. Lots of savings for the NHS there.
    However, people living longer means more pension payments.

    Ideally we want people to live healthily until retirement, before quietly - errr - moving on.
    How about when old people have serious medical problems we offer a cash payment for suicide ?

    Aside from stoping the heavy medical expenditure it would reduce the old person's caring costs.
    Twenty five percent of their projected medical care costs? IHT free....

    Ditto for dementia. But admittedly, that is more complicated. You will have to have previously put that in place in a living will. And someone (ie the State) will have to oversee it once mental capability is impaired. Which by the very nature of the desease, it would be.

    At some point in this century, these discussions will commence. Huge kudos to the first politicians to stick their head above the parapet on those discussions.
    Let's just work towards elective euthanasia with no money either way, perhaps, before further incentivising the heirs to guilt the elderly person into an early grave. I would dearly love to have a painless and guaranteed exit from the boredom and indignity of a demented old age in a care home, but it is an area rich in potential unintended consequences.
    I agree that would be an excellent start. But it is probably not going to cut health and care costs to much of an extent. There would be probably be very much a safety first approach taken, and the guaranteed exit would not occur until at least two doctors had confirmed you were now demented - with no hope of medical advances in the offing turning that around.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 16,089
    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    MTimT said:

    MTimT said:


    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.

    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Considerably. In the UK and Europe, the emphasis is on pain management, including learning how to live with pain. In the US:

    1. the expectation is that patients should self-rate their pain on a scale of 1-10, and should be medicated to a level of 3 or less. Obviously, patients would prefer 0 pain
    2. healthcare remuneration is being based partly on patient satisfaction. This results in patients being treated as consumers rather than as patients. They are given antibiotics they don't need, and more pain medication than they need. Pharmaceutical companies compound this problem by advertising their drugs, including narcotics pain medications, directly to the consumer/patient on the TV, with the result that once in the doctor's office, they request named narcotics.
    Seniors or long term sick, get repeat prescriptions and sell them on in the black market to addicts.

    In addition "Pill mill" doctors will prescribe opiates following cursory examination, for a consultation fee.

    If Trumpcare doesn't cover addiction treatment for the poor, he ain't going to get anywhere.

    The epidemic is out of control. Look at these maps:


    https://twitter.com/foxinsoxuk/status/923790211317948417
    The variances are interesting.

    Low in the Plains states, Upstate New York and the inner South but high in the West, Appalachia, the coastal South and New England.
    The place that sticks out to me is upstate NY, but this is mostly a small town post industrial white and hispanic epidemic. Some of the Dakotas type places may be too thinly inhabited to develop a drug gang infrastructure, and the cotton belt may be too African American.

    The upstate NY economy is like New England or Pennsylvania, but perhaps NY is doing something right in terms of drug policy and policing.

    I read this interesting prizewinner on the subject recently:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00U19DTS0/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

    As well as the prescription opiate addiction, the drug gangs have moved into some interesting distribution systems, with JIT deliveries, and decentralised gangs of dealers working in a style similar to anyone who uses the gig economy.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,369
    Chris_A said:

    Sandpit said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Try getting your UK doc to prescribe Xanax or Tramadol. The Brits are incredibly puritan when it comes to any drugs that might just be..... fun (as well as therapeutic)
    Does tramadol have recreational value? Asking for a friend.
    When rappers are talking about these prescription drugs, it’s fair to say there’s excessive recreational use and black market sales going on...
    There was huge abuse problem with tramadol which is why it was made a schedule 3 CD. GPs round here seem to dole them out like Smarties. Diazepam and zopiclone seem to have a street value now too.
    In the 80's I am reliably informed, OAP's on Merseyside were known to sell half their prescribed temazepam outside betting shops!
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,522

    Ishmael_Z said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Try getting your UK doc to prescribe Xanax or Tramadol. The Brits are incredibly puritan when it comes to any drugs that might just be..... fun (as well as therapeutic)
    Does tramadol have recreational value? Asking for a friend.
    I suspect that, back in the mid 90's, I was one of thise who saw very early patients with psychic side-effects from Tramadol. We..... nurses and I ....... had several arguments with prescribers obver it.
    Did you really mean psychic side effects? What, ESP and stuff? Cool....
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.
    Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.
    Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,369
    Chris_A said:

    Ishmael_Z said:

    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    Sandpit said:

    OMG. Trump has just sent a sensible, normal tweet about opiates.

    There's been a coup d'etat at the White House this morning.

    This seems to be something that Trump really cares about, and it’s affecting millions of people in his suporters’ heartlands.

    He’s also a teetotaller who’s seen plenty of people he knows screwed up by drugs legal and illegal.

    Good luck to him in sorting out the problem though, it’s not going to be an easy one.

    What is not said loudly in polite society is that the largest part of the opioid crisis is caused not by street trafficking for recreational use, but by the institutionalized zero tolerance for patient pain in the US healthcare system.

    The healthcare system and pharmaceuticals have been diligently creating both the addicts and the societal expectation of zero chronic pain through opioids.
    How does the approach towards patient pain differ to that in the UK or other countries ?
    Try getting your UK doc to prescribe Xanax or Tramadol. The Brits are incredibly puritan when it comes to any drugs that might just be..... fun (as well as therapeutic)
    Does tramadol have recreational value? Asking for a friend.
    I suspect that, back in the mid 90's, I was one of thise who saw very early patients with psychic side-effects from Tramadol. We..... nurses and I ....... had several arguments with prescribers obver it.
    I've seen patients with stock piles of several hundred. They presumably don't take it for the side effects but keep having them prescribed.
    Some 30 years ago a friend of mine, who ran a pharmacy with a large number of elderly patients carried out a comprehensive review of his dispensing to those patients. He calculated he could save several hunded pounds per month if he managed the repeat prescribing.
    However he would get no benefit form his work; indeed he would reduce his income. The prescribers might actually get a benefit form achieving prescibing goals.

    A fw years later I was employed to reduce prescribing costs and monitor prescribers drug budgets. I was unpopular with my pharmacist colleagues because I was decreasing their income, while the prescribers were, as I say, meeting their targets. And getting paid for doing so!

    The system is mad.
  • Options
    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2017

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.
    Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.
    Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.
    To a certain sort of Briton, born during the war or brought up on Commando comics, it does.

    They are like prom queens, turning up at every school reunion desperate to recapture the moment when they were briefly top of the world.

    Remembrance is fine, but Britain's obsession with Our Finest Hour heavily distorts our world view.
  • Options
    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    edited October 2017
    FF43 said:

    "We" stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation.

    Actually, if you read "Five Days in London, May 1940", you might learn that in 1940 we did have a choice (negotiate/treat or resist) and that Churchill had to work hard to achieve agreement on the resist path.

    https://www.amazon.com/Five-Days-London-May-1940/dp/0300084668
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.

    The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.

    *Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.
  • Options
    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.

    The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.

    *Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.

    Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,369
    edited October 2017

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.
    Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.
    Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.
    To a certain sort of Briton, born during the war or brought up on Commando comics, it does.

    They are like prom queens, turning up at every school reunion desperate to recapture the moment when they were briefly top of the world.

    Remembrance is fine, but Britain's obsession with Our Finest Hour heavily distorts our world view.
    Having spent quite a few of my childhood nights in a Morrison shelter with enemy bombers overhead I want to ensure that we work WITH our European neighbours, not quarrel with them.
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    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,522

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.
    Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.
    Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.
    To a certain sort of Briton, born during the war or brought up on Commando comics, it does.

    They are like prom queens, turning up at every school reunion desperate to recapture the moment when they were briefly top of the world.

    Remembrance is fine, but Britain's obsession with Our Finest Hour heavily distorts our world view.
    Erm, if we can't remember Our Finest Hour....

    What would you suggest? The day we joined the EEC?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    Mr. Meeks, a curious question. It's a negotiation. No need for moral absolutes.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    Mr. Meeks, a curious question. It's a negotiation. No need for moral absolutes.

    Quite. So no need to make a ridiculously inapt historical reference.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.

    The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.

    *Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.

    Though even within the context of WW2, we are rather selective in our memory. We remember the retreat from Dunkirk and Battle of Britain, and not the surrender at Singapore, or the wartime Bengal famine. We gloss over Bomber Harris's bomber war on civilians and the deals at Yalta.

  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,761
    And yet another Renault engine goes bang! Brendan Hartley in the other STR this time. Their mechanics are going to have a busy night.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382

    Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.

    The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.

    *Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.

    Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?
    Which side is good and which side evil?
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    Mr. Sandpit, as I just wrote for the pre-race tosh (which'll be up tomorrow), they'd better get used to it. They've got Honda engines next year.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited October 2017
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.
    Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.
    Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.
    To a certain sort of Briton, born during the war
    Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positively blase about the Battle of Britain.

    It is the unifiying and founding "myth" of the post-communist Putin state. And good luck to them, they basically won that war on land and in Eurasia, and lost 20m people. Rediscovering this shared narrative has given them back pride and self belief after the failure of the Soviet Union (and they needed it)


    But we, the Brits, won WW2 in the West, by standing alone alongside our Empire, allowing time for America to join its English speaking cousins in fighting evil. This is our recent and foundational national story.

    All successful nations have these stories. Ours just happens to be one of the best, and truest. And it crucially divides us from the rest of the EU, who were either conquered or feebly neutral or actively on the side of the Nazis (or indeed actual Nazis)

    This psychopolitical faultine basically explains Brexit, by itself.

    And by the way, the EU is the same in reverse. It constantly justifies its existence (and ever closer harmony) by referring back to.... the horrors of the Second World War,

    Russian foreign policy is equally distorted by its WW2 history.

    The difference between our view (and the Russians*) and that of the EU is that we see the war as our finest hour, the EU see it as something never to be repeated.

    * Many of the "Russians" that you mention were people from places that in 1940 and again post 1990 not part of Russia. Poles, Balts, Jews, Bessarabians, Ukranians etc. Their view of the war is more ambivalent than the place that we now know as Russia.

  • Options

    Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.

    The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.

    *Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.

    Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?
    Which side is good and which side evil?
    Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.
  • Options
    Ishmael_ZIshmael_Z Posts: 8,981
    edited October 2017

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.
    Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.
    Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.
    To a certain sort of Briton, born during the war or brought up on Commando comics, it does.

    They are like prom queens, turning up at every school reunion desperate to recapture the moment when they were briefly top of the world.

    Remembrance is fine, but Britain's obsession with Our Finest Hour heavily distorts our world view.
    And to another sort of Briton it is something to denigrate because any achievement of their own country must be denigrated. The reason for the anti WW2 satire in Forty Years On and so on was I think that 50s and 60s and 70s Britain was so incredibly fucking drab and boring that Bennett and co were simply envious of the generation that fought the war. I remember from my childhood witnessing a couple of blokes meeting and one saying to the other "Bloody hell, I haven't seen you since Changi Jail." I am sure Changi was pure hell, but that is quite a cool thing to be able to say. Hebephrenic modern day lefties have inherited the attitude without understanding the reason for it.

    The war was one of the weirdest and biggest things to have happened in history, ever, and shaped almost every aspect of our modern world. I have also just calculated that when I was born it was a year or so closer in time, than 9/11 is to now, and 9/11 feels like yesterday.
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 50,761

    Mr. Sandpit, as I just wrote for the pre-race tosh (which'll be up tomorrow), they'd better get used to it. They've got Honda engines next year.

    Indeed. On the other hand I wonder what Alonso (who was P5 in Q1) is thinking about all the Renaults blowing up. Out of the frying pan...
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.

    The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.

    *Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.

    Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?
    Which side is good and which side evil?
    Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.
    The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,981
    Ok Lewis, hammer time.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    Mr. Z, talking of wars and so forth I just watched a video which reminded me that at Cannae, Rome lost about 20% of its adult male population in a day. Germany, apparently, lost 6% of its adult male population during the whole course of World War One.

    Puts the Roman attitude in the Second Punic War in perspective. The day after Cannae, the field upon which Hannibal's army was encamped was sold at full market price.

    That was the slightly disturbing height of Rome's patriotism.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,981

    Mr. Z, talking of wars and so forth I just watched a video which reminded me that at Cannae, Rome lost about 20% of its adult male population in a day. Germany, apparently, lost 6% of its adult male population during the whole course of World War One.

    Puts the Roman attitude in the Second Punic War in perspective. The day after Cannae, the field upon which Hannibal's army was encamped was sold at full market price.

    That was the slightly disturbing height of Rome's patriotism.

    Fantastic.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    SeanT said:

    MTimT said:

    FF43 said:

    "We" stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation.

    Actually, if you read "Five Days in London, May 1940", you might learn that in 1940 we did have a choice (negotiate/treat or resist) and that Churchill had to work hard to achieve agreement on the resist path.

    https://www.amazon.com/Five-Days-London-May-1940/dp/0300084668
    A wonderful book.

    In 1939 Britain was still the world's superpower (albeit with surging and very powerful rivals), a great creditor, London was arguably the centre of the world.

    By 1945 London was flattened, the Empire was gone or going, and our debts were so bad we needed American aid.

    But we did this voluntarily, to defeat the greatest evil in human history.

    Yes, we should be proud of this, and given that all nations need an emotional narrative of shared endeavour to bring them together, I think ours - not least because it is true - is one of the very best of all.
    And those people voted heavily for a Labour government in 1945.

    Patriotism does not belong to the Tories or Brexiteers. Some of the most fervent pro Europeans were those like Ted Heath who has served actively in wartime.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 59,209

    Mr. Z, talking of wars and so forth I just watched a video which reminded me that at Cannae, Rome lost about 20% of its adult male population in a day. Germany, apparently, lost 6% of its adult male population during the whole course of World War One.

    Puts the Roman attitude in the Second Punic War in perspective. The day after Cannae, the field upon which Hannibal's army was encamped was sold at full market price.

    That was the slightly disturbing height of Rome's patriotism.

    I wonder if anyone said “Rome Cannae take any more, consul”


    Oh, my coat? :p
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    SeanT said:

    Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.

    The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.

    *Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.

    Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?
    Yes.
    It's a good shibboleth for determining which Leavers are merely misguided and which are completely unhinged.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 118,017
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.
    Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.
    Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.
    To a certain sort of Briton, born during the war or broght up on Commando comics it does.

    They are like prom queens, turning up at every school reunion desperate to recapture the moment when they were briefly top of the world.

    Remembrance is fine, but Britain's obsession with Our Finest Hour heavily distorts our world view.
    Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positively blase about the Battle of Britain.

    It is the unifiying and founding "myth" of the post-communist Putin state. And good luck to them, they basically won that war on land and in Eurasia, and lost 20m people. Rediscovering this shared narrative has given them back pride and self belief after the failure of the Soviet Union (and they needed it)


    But we, the Brits, won WW2 in the West, by standing alone alongside our Empire, allowing time for America to join its English speaking cousins in fighting evil. This is our recent and foundational national story.

    All successful nations have these stories. Ours just happens to be one of the best, and truest. And it crucially divides us from the rest of the EU, who were either conquered or feebly neutral or actively on the side of the Nazis (or indeed actual Nazis)

    This psychopolitical faultine basically explains Brexit, by itself.

    And by the way, the EU is the same in reverse. It constantly justifies its existence (and ever closer harmony) by referring back to.... the horrors of the Second World War,

    Of course ironically it is now Germany which effectively runs the EU, which we have now Brexited from.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,125
    Mr. L, fantastic, yet also completely ****ing mental.

    Just think what we'd be doing if we had a Roman mindset.

    Mr. D, *sighs*
  • Options

    Dr. Foxinsox, that isn't unique to the UK. Fear of repeating mistakes has led to lots of policies from European nations.

    The Second World War is also convenient because it's good versus evil. And most war isn't like that. It's just competing for resources, or because one or two nations are being dickish. The black-and-white nature of WWII* makes it simpler to think about. None of that pesky nuance.

    *Because we tend not to focus on Poland being behind the Iron Curtain, or allying with a man who went on to kill millions of his own people.

    Is Britain versus the EU good versus evil?
    Which side is good and which side evil?
    Any side that the Lib Dems support has to be questionable at the very least.
    The Liberals were part of Churchill's wartime coalition, perhaps the best known being Beveridge.

    That was then. There ain't no Beveridge in the Lib Dems now.
  • Options
    TykejohnnoTykejohnno Posts: 7,362
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    FF43 said:

    stevef said:

    "Everything is all going to be allright"

    Thats what Churchill constantly said during his wartime broadcasts when things looked a lot worse than they do now.

    In June 1940 as Britain stood alone after the Fall of France:

    "In the end, all will be well".

    And it was. So Remoaners -just accept democracy.

    Once we start making We stood alone in 1940 comparisons, the gig is up for Brexit. "We" (that is to say, none of us on this forum) stood alone because "we" had no choice but to face up to the dire situation. Brexit is a situation that "we" (that is to say some of us) actually voted for.
    Grow a fucking spine you bedwetting quisling.
    Leavers have a bizarre obsession with the Second World War.
    To a certain sort of Briton, born during the war or broght up on Commando comics it does.

    They are like prom queens, turning up at every school reunion desperate to recapture the moment when they were briefly top of the world.

    Remembrance is fine, but Britain's obsession with Our Finest Hour heavily distorts our world view.
    Russia is obsessed with the Great Patriotic War (i.e. versus the Nazis) in a way which makes us look positively blase about the Battle of Britain.

    It is the unifiying and founding "myth" of the post-communist Putin state. And good luck to them, they basically won that war on land and in Eurasia, and lost 20m people. Rediscovering this shared narrative has given them back pride and self belief after the failure of the Soviet Union (and they needed it)


    But we, the Brits, won WW2 in the West, by standing alone alongside our Empire, allowing time for America to join its English speaking cousins in fighting evil. This is our recent and foundational national story.

    All successful nations have these stories. Ours just happens to be one of the best, and truest. And it crucially divides us from the rest of the EU, who were either conquered or feebly neutral or actively on the side of the Nazis (or indeed actual Nazis)

    This psychopolitical faultine basically explains Brexit, by itself.

    And by the way, the EU is the same in reverse. It constantly justifies its existence (and ever closer harmony) by referring back to.... the horrors of the Second World War,

    Can't wait for this film to come out,Gary Oldman has Churchill in Darkest hour.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIm9hfDk34k

This discussion has been closed.