politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » For LAB the onjective is to avert a Tory landslide – but how

Strong and stable is, as SeanT says, an excellent slogan, playing into the public's fears about the uncertain future and the chaotic opposition. It's designed to produce as crushing a majority as possible. Labour seem determined to bolster it.

SeanT said:

rcs1000 said:

SeanT said:

kle4 said:

SeanT said:

Confession: I rather admire the brazen way the Tories are repeating "strong and stable".

This reminds me of the Labour campaign in 1997. Relentless, even tedious message discipline. Endless reiteration of the central themes. Rinse and repeat, drain and recycle. Everyone in the loop, echoing the same numbingly predictable soundbites. And facing a panicked, feeble opposition, knowing it is doomed to horrible defeat.

The result was a landslide then, and it will surely be a landslide now.

I think its irritating, but I severely doubt it is so irritating it will cost them - there is zero doubt what their message is.

Have the others come up with slogans yet?

Quite. I have no idea what Labour stands for, or indeed the LDs, or UKIP. Certainly I can't sum it up in three words. I guess the SNP stand for "Another Independence Referendum!" but I'm not sure it's that popular, even in Scotland.

"Strong and stable" sounds very appealing, it's what we want. Like "milk and biscuits", or "gin and tonic", or "champagne and spanking", or even "poetry and striptease" (a poem by my father).

The world is scary. Islamism is scary. Climate change is scary. Brexit is scary. Strong and stable??? YES PLEASE. We don't want Hope and Change, We Want Strong and Stable.

Presumably they focus-grouped it to death, and found that it hit home.

It works.

Everyone knows what the LibDems stand for. But it's a message that resonates only in student halls and in the leafiest suburbs and garden towns of South East England.

In three words?

I'm seriously interested. I have to come up with commercial thriller titles, and it's fucking hard, and it's well known that you need to hone the title until it is perfect, taking into account known publishing truths, e.g. five syllables is best. The Da Vinci Code. Five syllables.

And there are many other rules. e.g. psych domestic thriller titles ideally need to reference the main character, and provide a human element - The Girl on the Train, The Ice Twins.

The same must apply to political slogans for parties in elections. Three words seems good. What is the LD pitch in three words?

On their website it says:
"Change Britain's future"
Could be worse.

Sandpit said:

williamglenn said:

Disraeli said:

Side note: Was Blair's biggest domestic failure that he did not use his majority to change the electoral system to PR?

No, his biggest domestic failure was not reshuffling Brown out of the Treasury after the 2001 election.

His biggest failing relating to PR was introducing it for the European elections which gave UKIP such a strong foothold.

For perhaps the first time ever, you make two points I agree with entirely!

Labour's complete failure now is down to Brown from 2001-2007, when he opened the spending taps wide, while crushing any opposition to him within the party.

Party lists are perhaps the worst electoral system of all, leaving all the power with internal party patronage rather than the people.

Multi member sorts this./

RobD said:

JosiasJessop said:

RobD said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

I was just skimming through Wikipedia looking for something, and saw the maps of constituencies at the 1983 election:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1983#/media/File:UK_General_Election,_1983.svg

It would be great if these could be made into an animated svg / gif / png so you can watch the colours and constituencies change over time.

If only I had the time ...

I think there are some animations out there... This one for instance:

https://sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/maps/elections/elections.htm

If you wanted one just from 1983 onwards I could easily make one (just have to download the files and use ImageMagik to create the gif)

Thanks for that - though I'd prefer the wiki style map rather than an equal-population one.

Imagemagick is cool. Half of the maps on my website were created from SVG using it.

If you don' get around to it, I might have a play tomorrow if the little 'un allows me.

Argh, they change the format in 2010 to include insets of the populated areas.

Here's a first stab at 1983-2005:

http://i.imgur.com/KEK69sd.gif

You can see that the image size is changing, and for some reason Northern Ireland changed shape during this period!

That's brilliant, thanks!

TheScreamingEagles said:

Intelligent voting?

The 2015 GE if it had been fought under different voting systems, such as AV.



I even did a thread on it

http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/01/24/electoral-reform-might-not-be-the-panacea-the-left-think-it-is/

AV would invariably make landslides worse because (as now) the third parties tend to split for the leading main party so a seat that Labour won by 40-37-12-9-2, say, would switch to Con after transfers. Same in 1997 or 1983.

Danny565 said:

kle4 said:

Still looking if Labour have a pithy phrase lined up yet.

'Shape the Future' is one I've seen, but it's a bit wishy washy.

The problems with political slogans are that they need to be pithy while at the same time also remind voters of specific policies or stances. Very difficult.

"Take Back Control" was ingenious because it stuck in the mind, while also referring to a whole load of policies: taking back control of the immigration system, taking back control of the legal system, taking back control of the supposed £350m a week, etc.

I'm unsure whether "Strong And Stable" is as much of a knockout, it's not exactly a million miles off the Remain campaign's "Stronger, Safer and Better Off" or whatever it was. It doesn't seem to be directly tied to any actual policies or good reasons to vote Tory. Not that they need a good slogan when the general weather is so good for them, mind.

I liked an old HIGNFY where Merton commented that the LD slogan of the time looked like it was the result of them coming up with two slogans, not being able to agree which was best so slapping them together.

As you say, not easy at all, and who can actually judge how successful it was - New Labour, New Danger I remember, and I wasn't even politically aware in 1997, but it didn't work, clearly.

JosiasJessop said:

RobD said:

JosiasJessop said:

RobD said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

I was just skimming through Wikipedia looking for something, and saw the maps of constituencies at the 1983 election:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1983#/media/File:UK_General_Election,_1983.svg

It would be great if these could be made into an animated svg / gif / png so you can watch the colours and constituencies change over time.

If only I had the time ...

I think there are some animations out there... This one for instance:

https://sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/maps/elections/elections.htm

If you wanted one just from 1983 onwards I could easily make one (just have to download the files and use ImageMagik to create the gif)

Thanks for that - though I'd prefer the wiki style map rather than an equal-population one.

Imagemagick is cool. Half of the maps on my website were created from SVG using it.

If you don' get around to it, I might have a play tomorrow if the little 'un allows me.

Argh, they change the format in 2010 to include insets of the populated areas.

Here's a first stab at 1983-2005:

http://i.imgur.com/KEK69sd.gif

You can see that the image size is changing, and for some reason Northern Ireland changed shape during this period!

That's brilliant, thanks!

I would make one with dates on it, but I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader. My convert command was very simple:

"convert -delay 70 -loop 0 -resize 690x982 *.svg animation.gif"

There must be a way to stuff the file name on each frame of the gif, or you could add the year directly to each svg file.

In case you missed it:

RobD said:

@JosiasJessop - and here is one going back to '55. Before that they use a different map projection!

http://i.imgur.com/amuDXlU.gif

Lib Dems slogan could be "Not the Others"

GIN1138 said:

Anybody else feel sorry for Diane?

Not me, for one.

SeanT said:

Scott_P said:

SeanT said:

Some genres are much easier than other. Not uncoincidentally, the genres which make the most money are those where title-finding is hardest.

Have you tried naming it "The elusive title" ?

I have my new title

WHEN SHE'S ALONE


Four syllables, close to the perfect five. In those four syllables, it tells you it's about a woman, and she's potentially isolated, and something is menacing her. Or is she going to do or think something terrible, when she's on her tod? Oooooh!

Now I just need to make the book less crap.

Whereas 'When he's alone' just sounds like it is a book about a bloke watching on-line smut and having a wank.

Floater said:

Read it and weep Don

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sketch-the-ups-and-downs-of-diane-abbots-police-officer-live-salary-tracker-labour-general-election-a7713596.html

This is the Independent, the INDEPENDENT FFS

"In three minutes and forty eight seconds, the shadow Home Secretary tripled the size of the police force and offered new recruits a 99,300 per cent pay rise "

GIN1138 said:

Anybody else feel sorry for Diane?

No. Listen to her tone. Even when she's floundering hopelessly, she still sounds like a patronising infants teacher.

williamglenn said:

Make Europe Great Again!

What do you mean by "Again"?

JosiasJessop said:

RobD said:

JosiasJessop said:

RobD said:

JosiasJessop said:

RobD said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

I was just skimming through Wikipedia looking for something, and saw the maps of constituencies at the 1983 election:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1983#/media/File:UK_General_Election,_1983.svg

It would be great if these could be made into an animated svg / gif / png so you can watch the colours and constituencies change over time.

If only I had the time ...

I think there are some animations out there... This one for instance:

https://sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/maps/elections/elections.htm

If you wanted one just from 1983 onwards I could easily make one (just have to download the files and use ImageMagik to create the gif)

Thanks for that - though I'd prefer the wiki style map rather than an equal-population one.

Imagemagick is cool. Half of the maps on my website were created from SVG using it.

If you don' get around to it, I might have a play tomorrow if the little 'un allows me.

Argh, they change the format in 2010 to include insets of the populated areas.

Here's a first stab at 1983-2005:

http://i.imgur.com/KEK69sd.gif

You can see that the image size is changing, and for some reason Northern Ireland changed shape during this period!

That's brilliant, thanks!

I would make one with dates on it, but I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader. My convert command was very simple:

"convert -delay 70 -loop 0 -resize 690x982 *.svg animation.gif"

There must be a way to stuff the file name on each frame of the gif, or you could add the year directly to each svg file.

You, sir, are a hero.

I haven't even had a chance to go upstairs and turn my dev PC on, and you've done all that ...

No prob, like I said it was very easy. I did make a longer version going back to 1955 which I edited into the comment just after you posted.

If you are patient I could have a go at making a version where the UK is actually lined up in each frame (plus a date).

RobD said:

JosiasJessop said:

RobD said:

JosiasJessop said:

RobD said:

JosiasJessop said:

Off-topic:

I was just skimming through Wikipedia looking for something, and saw the maps of constituencies at the 1983 election:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1983#/media/File:UK_General_Election,_1983.svg

It would be great if these could be made into an animated svg / gif / png so you can watch the colours and constituencies change over time.

If only I had the time ...

I think there are some animations out there... This one for instance:

https://sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/maps/elections/elections.htm

If you wanted one just from 1983 onwards I could easily make one (just have to download the files and use ImageMagik to create the gif)

Thanks for that - though I'd prefer the wiki style map rather than an equal-population one.

Imagemagick is cool. Half of the maps on my website were created from SVG using it.

If you don' get around to it, I might have a play tomorrow if the little 'un allows me.

Argh, they change the format in 2010 to include insets of the populated areas.

Here's a first stab at 1983-2005:

http://i.imgur.com/KEK69sd.gif

You can see that the image size is changing, and for some reason Northern Ireland changed shape during this period!

That's brilliant, thanks!

I would make one with dates on it, but I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader. My convert command was very simple:

"convert -delay 70 -loop 0 -resize 690x982 *.svg animation.gif"

There must be a way to stuff the file name on each frame of the gif, or you could add the year directly to each svg file.

In case you missed it:

RobD said:

@JosiasJessop - and here is one going back to '55. Before that they use a different map projection!

http://i.imgur.com/amuDXlU.gif

1950 is about as far back as you could go and still have it look reasonable - prior to that you'd end up missing off the university constituencies.

Scrapheap_as_was said:

isam said:

Lib Dems slogan could be "Not the Others"

Labour's a la Diane - "Wrong and unable"

It could be for Labour /DA

Didn't Mention Hitler!

SimonStClare said:

Floater said:

Read it and weep Don

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sketch-the-ups-and-downs-of-diane-abbots-police-officer-live-salary-tracker-labour-general-election-a7713596.html

This is the Independent, the INDEPENDENT FFS

Well worth reading, hilarious from start to finish. And here’s the finish.

"The fact that this money, which is to come from reversing cuts to capital gains tax, has already been spent on reversing cuts to education, social care and the arts is a problem for another day. And there’s 36 of them to go."

Her mind was so slow in trying to figure out what to say it was remarkable, you could almost hear the wheels creaking... until Ferrari said "policemen", then she was Clint Eastwood-like quick on the draw "AND WIMMIN!"

SeanT said:

rcs1000 said:

SeanT said:

kle4 said:

SeanT said:

Confession: I rather admire the brazen way the Tories are repeating "strong and stable".

This reminds me of the Labour campaign in 1997. Relentless, even tedious message discipline. Endless reiteration of the central themes. Rinse and repeat, drain and recycle. Everyone in the loop, echoing the same numbingly predictable soundbites. And facing a panicked, feeble opposition, knowing it is doomed to horrible defeat.

The result was a landslide then, and it will surely be a landslide now.

I think its irritating, but I severely doubt it is so irritating it will cost them - there is zero doubt what their message is.

Have the others come up with slogans yet?

Quite. I have no idea what Labour stands for, or indeed the LDs, or UKIP. Certainly I can't sum it up in three words. I guess the SNP stand for "Another Independence Referendum!" but I'm not sure it's that popular, even in Scotland.

"Strong and stable" sounds very appealing, it's what we want. Like "milk and biscuits", or "gin and tonic", or "champagne and spanking", or even "poetry and striptease" (a poem by my father).

The world is scary. Islamism is scary. Climate change is scary. Brexit is scary. Strong and stable??? YES PLEASE. We don't want Hope and Change, We Want Strong and Stable.

Presumably they focus-grouped it to death, and found that it hit home.

It works.

Everyone knows what the LibDems stand for. But it's a message that resonates only in student halls and in the leafiest suburbs and garden towns of South East England.

In three words?

I'm seriously interested. I have to come up with commercial thriller titles, and it's fucking hard, and it's well known that you need to hone the title until it is perfect, taking into account known publishing truths, e.g. five syllables is best. The Da Vinci Code. Five syllables.

And there are many other rules. e.g. psych domestic thriller titles ideally need to reference the main character, and provide a human element - The Girl on the Train, The Ice Twins.

The same must apply to political slogans for parties in elections. Three words seems good. What is the LD pitch in three words?

Not the others.

SandyRentool said:

SeanT said:

Scott_P said:

SeanT said:

Some genres are much easier than other. Not uncoincidentally, the genres which make the most money are those where title-finding is hardest.

Have you tried naming it "The elusive title" ?

I have my new title

WHEN SHE'S ALONE


Four syllables, close to the perfect five. In those four syllables, it tells you it's about a woman, and she's potentially isolated, and something is menacing her. Or is she going to do or think something terrible, when she's on her tod? Oooooh!

Now I just need to make the book less crap.

Whereas 'When he's alone' just sounds like it is a book about a bloke watching on-line smut and having a wank.

You speak for yourself!
When I'm alone I look in on PB.com (which is probably worse in the eyes of most non-political anoraks)

isam said:

SimonStClare said:

Floater said:

Read it and weep Don

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sketch-the-ups-and-downs-of-diane-abbots-police-officer-live-salary-tracker-labour-general-election-a7713596.html

This is the Independent, the INDEPENDENT FFS

Well worth reading, hilarious from start to finish. And here’s the finish.

"The fact that this money, which is to come from reversing cuts to capital gains tax, has already been spent on reversing cuts to education, social care and the arts is a problem for another day. And there’s 36 of them to go."

Her mind was so slow in trying to figure out what to say it was remarkable, you could almost hear the wheels creaking... until Ferrari said "policemen", then she was Clint Eastwood-like quick on the draw "AND WIMMIN!"

I thought he was the first to point that out, the first time

AlastairMeeks said:

Essexit said:

SeanT said:

Another great and powerful three word political slogan

TAKE BACK CONTROL

That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?

STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT

"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:

"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"

Fools rush out.

Lying Less Than Leave

williamglenn said:

Make Europe Great Again!

We love EU.

What is an onjective?

Something Diane Abbot thought up?

Theuniondivvie said:

Mention of attack dog Fallon brings to mind this.

https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/795180619898691584

Colleague of mine speculated Fallon gets the attack dog role because there's something about him that is so very unmemorable, that if it works, great, if it doesn't it just sort of slides off him and the party.

theakes said:

The Lib Dems could help to prevent such a landside but up to now their campaign has been virtually non existent. It is no good blaming the media you have to give them something to publish. To date their allegedly famed press department has seemingly failed. Once again they may be out of touch with reality thinking "good old Brexit that is all we need". They should remmber this aint a referendum its a general election.

If memory serves the Lib Dems policy platform is voted on by Conference.not sure if that affects their readiness to respond to a snap election?

While we marvel at Diane's meltdown, just remember, she is not the worst media performer in the shadow cabinet...

williamglenn said:

Europe Needs Us
Keep Them Honest
A British Europe

Ignorance is strength...

GIN1138 said:

Anybody else feel sorry for Diane?

No. She has been educated at one of our most prestigious universities, has been an MP for over 30 years, is putting herself forward for one of the Great Offices of State, and is consistently patronizing and offensive to anyone who dare disagree with her, and frequently responds with the most outrageous examples of whataboutery, cries foul over racism and sexism without cause and, as we've seen in her justifications today, just flat out lies. She is either genuinely dim or merely unsuited even for a shadow portfolio, and deserves no sympathy for what was probably merely a gaffe, given her character and her attempts to blame the media and opponents for her own cock ups.

I'm not a fan. Maybe she is a lovely woman and hardworking MP, but she is not fit for the position she holds, which she volunteered for, and that eclipses any sympathy I might feel.

williamglenn said:

Europe Needs Us
Keep Them Honest
A British Europe

Wave EU goodbye.

Freggles said:

david_herdson said:

SeanT said:

Another great and powerful three word political slogan

TAKE BACK CONTROL

That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?

STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT

The 3-word Remain slogan should have been something like Let's Work Together.

Stronger In ?

It's not actually a bad one.

On the topic of slogans, I think they should be distinctive in that you can't imagine then being used by another party. "Strong and stable" shouldn't be in that class, but given the opposition it is. It may be one of the reasons it was picked.

Disraeli said:

Playing Devils Advocate a bit...

The trouble with these electoral arrangements where parties don't stand in a constituency to give "friendly" parties a free run is that it creates questions about what to do at the NEXT election.

For example, If the LibDems stand down in Constituency#1 to let Labour take on the Tories, and then Labour return the compliment in Constituency#2, what happens if the Tories win both seats? Do they continue the same arrangement? Do they swap?

At the very least, I would suggest that there would be have to be a binding agreement to introduce PR if a Rainbow Colaition managed to defeat the Tories, if only to avoid these sort of questions.

Side note: Was Blair's biggest domestic failure that he did not use his majority to change the electoral system to PR?

And then as an evil baby-eating Tory I say vote Lib Dem and get Labour - oops I have said that in one of my leaflets already.

kle4 said:

GIN1138 said:

Anybody else feel sorry for Diane?

No. She has been educated at one of our most prestigious universities, has been an MP for over 30 years, is putting herself forward for one of the Great Offices of State, and is consistently patronizing and offensive to anyone who dare disagree with her, and frequently responds with the most outrageous examples of whataboutery, cries foul over racism and sexism without cause and, as we've seen in her justifications today, just flat out lies. She is either genuinely dim or merely unsuited even for a shadow portfolio, and deserves no sympathy for what was probably merely a gaffe, given her character and her attempts to blame the media and opponents for her own cock ups.

I'm not a fan. Maybe she is a lovely woman and hardworking MP, but she is not fit for the position she holds, which she volunteered for, and that eclipses any sympathy I might feel.

While I dislike her intensely to the point I can't listen to her, I do find the 'Dead Ringers' version hilariously funny.

Casino_Royale said:

SeanT said:

Casino_Royale said:

AlastairMeeks said:

Essexit said:

SeanT said:

Another great and powerful three word political slogan

TAKE BACK CONTROL

That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?

STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT

"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:

"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"

Fools rush out.

The best one was: Brits don't quit.

But used too little, too late, and after too much bad blood.

That would have been much better. Endlessly repeated. Indeed Mr Meeks' suggestion of Fools Rush Out would maybe have been more effective, a little clever for some, but thought-provoking, and would have made people pause.

The Remain campaign was the worst campaign in British political history, with the possible exception of the pro-AV campaign, and the Labour election campaign of 2017. Discuss.

It was very clever: it twisted the strong instinctive patriotism that many Leavers feel straight on its head.

It probably wasn't used for that very reason. Remainers didn't want to soil themselves by appealing to such people.

By Remainers you mean Cameroons. A small sub-section, who could never appeal to 51% of the people.

"A “blue wall” of voters in the southwest makes the prospect of a Liberal Democrat electoral bounce-back in the region unlikely, analysis suggests.

Tim Farron’s party has set its sights on regaining seats in Somerset, Devon and Cornwall on June 8 that it ceded to the Conservatives at the 2015 election.

However, despite a history of support in the region, built on local identities and high levels of non-conformism, the outlook is not good."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/lib-dems-must-scale-blue-wall-to-win-back-their-old-heartland-q883d2pdb

kle4 said:

Theuniondivvie said:

Mention of attack dog Fallon brings to mind this.

https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/795180619898691584

Colleague of mine speculated Fallon gets the attack dog role because there's something about him that is so very unmemorable, that if it works, great, if it doesn't it just sort of slides off him and the party.

Sounds plausible, it took me a few seconds to remember what he looks like.

dr_spyn said:

Blair and Brown had the measure of Diane Abbott's abilities, and made damn sure that she was untainted by the strains of ministerial office.

Even Miliband shuffled her out of the Shadow Cabinet.

Freggles said:

isam said:

SimonStClare said:

Floater said:

Read it and weep Don

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sketch-the-ups-and-downs-of-diane-abbots-police-officer-live-salary-tracker-labour-general-election-a7713596.html

This is the Independent, the INDEPENDENT FFS

Well worth reading, hilarious from start to finish. And here’s the finish.

"The fact that this money, which is to come from reversing cuts to capital gains tax, has already been spent on reversing cuts to education, social care and the arts is a problem for another day. And there’s 36 of them to go."

Her mind was so slow in trying to figure out what to say it was remarkable, you could almost hear the wheels creaking... until Ferrari said "policemen", then she was Clint Eastwood-like quick on the draw "AND WIMMIN!"

I thought he was the first to point that out, the first time

Don't think so

david_herdson said:

SeanT said:

Another great and powerful three word political slogan

TAKE BACK CONTROL

That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?

STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT

The 3-word Remain slogan should have been something like Let's Work Together.

That's way more positive than any they actually used. As @SeanT observes, these things are actually quite difficult to get right.

I was at a dinner party in Edinburgh recently. One of the guests has a brother who was a big cheese in some inquiry, might have been historic sex or something like that. He had to work closely with TM as Home Secretary. He said his brother's overwhelming impression of May was her honesty and focus on the truth.

TBH I was quite startled. Honesty and politican in the same sentence and no negative; it was a bit weird so I queried it: really? But he was adamant, his brother says she is a deeply honest person guided by quite a profound faith. Of course we all know where profound faith ends up; with 1m dead in Iraq. But still, it made me think. It is so easy to think the worst of those daft enough to offer themselves up to public life. Maybe we have got her wrong?

I still haven't bothered to read Brind's spin.

I doubt I'm missing very much.

Scott_P said:

While we marvel at Diane's meltdown, just remember, she is not the worst media performer in the shadow cabinet...

Sounds to me as though she's trying to do far too much.

voxpop on sky from Wales - 70 year old woman voting tories for first time.

She obviously didn't get Don's memo

williamglenn said:

Europe Needs Us
Keep Them Honest
A British Europe

Know your place

SeanT said:

Sandpit said:

Scott_P said:

While we marvel at Diane's meltdown, just remember, she is not the worst media performer in the shadow cabinet...

Can we have Lady Emily tomorrow please, I don't think she's yet been asked how she will celebrate her party's proposal for a public holiday on St George's day.

*whispers*

Thornberry is actually much more impressive, and rather clever, and handles questions well. And she's not helplessly posh. Labour could do worse, as they steer away from Corbyn.

What's the price on her, post-Corbyn? Labour's first women leader. I'd go for her, if I were them.

She's not. I'll see if I can find the NEwsnight on the day the election was called. She was so incompetent Evan Davis was laughing at her.

"Why should people vote Labour?"
"So we can hold the government to account on the Brexit deal"
"But if you win, you will be the government!"
"....."

DavidL said:

I was at a dinner party in Edinburgh recently. One of the guests has a brother who was a big cheese in some inquiry, might have been historic sex or something like that. He had to work closely with TM as Home Secretary. He said his brother's overwhelming impression of May was her honesty and focus on the truth.

TBH I was quite startled. Honesty and politican in the same sentence and no negative; it was a bit weird so I queried it: really? But he was adamant, his brother says she is a deeply honest person guided by quite a profound faith. Of course we all know where profound faith ends up; with 1m dead in Iraq. But still, it made me think. It is so easy to think the worst of those daft enough to offer themselves up to public life. Maybe we have got her wrong?

If we're sharing anecdotes, an acquaintance of mine shared a story of an acquaintance of theirs who was at the Home Office when May first arrived, and said she was sharp and on the ball immediately, took no nonsense and immediately imposed herself and her style on the place.

On the general point, it is very easy to deride politicians as the worse of us, particularly as the slick communication and focus tested blandness if usually takes to win is something we keep rewarding but simultaneously do not trust, but my experience of politicians at local levels is that a great many are dedicated, hard working people trying to do good, and get a lot more crap than deserved.

I don't feel guilty holding MPs and others to very high standards or it being a bit of a slog for them, it is still public service and not a cool job for political anoraks, but I try to respect the intentions until I see otherwise.

SeanT said:

Diane Abbott is STILL trending (and the only political subject to do so).

Her utter, utter incompetence has laid waste to two days of Labour campaigning.

And this was a phone interview. She was surely standing there, with several aides at hand, and the figures in front of her. Wasn't she?

They're just SHIT. You wouldn't send the Labour front bench to the sweetshop, armed with thruppence, to buy a Curly-Wurly. Aside from all politics, the fact is, they're terrible at politics. The same goes for Corbyn, if you watch him, he's actually a terrible speaker, yet this is meant to be his forte.

They're terrible at thinking. They're stupid. Worse still they don't realise their own limitations, or at least if they do they're prepared to brass things out. Does Diane Abbot really believe that she's a good candidate to be Home Secretary?

This is really extreme politics - precisely none of the Labour front bench are capable of anything much. There are questions about the Tory front bench too, the SNP are weak in parts, and the LDs underperform even their dimishing ranks. Labour though are something beyond belief.

SeanT said:

Sandpit said:

Scott_P said:

While we marvel at Diane's meltdown, just remember, she is not the worst media performer in the shadow cabinet...

Can we have Lady Emily tomorrow please, I don't think she's yet been asked how she will celebrate her party's proposal for a public holiday on St George's day.

*whispers*

Thornberry is actually much more impressive, and rather clever, and handles questions well. And she's not helplessly posh. Labour could do worse, as they steer away from Corbyn.

What's the price on her, post-Corbyn? Labour's first women leader. I'd go for her, if I were them.

Come off it mate, white van man loathes her, she'd be as bad as Corbyn