politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » For LAB the onjective is to avert a Tory landslide – but how
Comments
-
Maybe not, but I wonder why they are a member of a party led by such idiots. It doesn't make my think they have good judgement or a spine.murali_s said:0 -
There are two problems with thatsurbiton said:
The SNP is a left of centre party. To deny the Tories, I would do anything. In any case, the SNP holds those seats right now.SeanT said:
Literally insane. A pact with the SNP is a pact with a party which is 1. dedicated to the destruction of the UK, a dissolution which will, 2, make any future victory extremely difficult for Labour. The SNP despise you.surbiton said:I believe Labour should be prepared not to stand about 200 candidates [ obviously from the bottom ]. The actual number will be based on what arrangements can be found.
There should be no explicit pact with any party but offers could be made or received on a case-by-case basis from Lib Dems, Greens and even the SNP.
Where Labour has come second or a close third will not come up for discussion. So the local CLP should have no objections except there are enough nutters who will not accept this simple and common sense proposal.
For example, if we do not put up a candidate in Richmond, Surrey the Liberals will have to step down somewhere else.
SLAB may not like this proposal, but there are seats in Scotland NE where Labour votes however tiny could help the Tories win.
There may not be a seat to concede to the Greens. I can't see where Greens are competing against the Tories.
You've lost it. Lie down.
1. Labour don't look like getting anywhere near wresting (m)any of those seats back from the SNP. In fact the Tories look more like doing so (not I think that they can become the largest party in Scotland)
2. The SNP are a nationalist party not a left wing party. they wear left wing clothes because they think it will get them their primary goal, independence.0 -
It's worth a try for Labour, even if once again their leadership team is, since they are not trusted as widely as TMay, not perfectly placed to put it.justin124 said:
But if the message is pushed relentlessly in the campaign, she may become to be seen more widely as a barefaced liar and that can only tarnish her image and appeal.kle4 said:She pointed out that the reasons for calling a snap general election were untrue
She asserted that the reasons were untrue. I don't fully buy TMay's explanation either, but do they public care? Currently not.0 -
Here is an alternative Labour slogan
@mattforde: Met some Labour activists on a street stall yesterday. One of them told me that the election "isn't all about winning". What a message.0 -
Questions:
If the damage is as bad for Labour as many are predicting, what is going to be the balance in the PLP?
What people are likely to be left to lead an attempt to get rid of Corbyn?
More particularly who is going to put their head above the parapet?0 -
It's very rare that Scottish MPs hold the balance of power, and in any case, it's highly probable that Scotland will provide more Tory MPs than Labour ones.SeanT said:Literally insane. A pact with the SNP is a pact with a party which is 1. dedicated to the destruction of the UK, a dissolution which will, 2, make any future victory extremely difficult for Labour. The SNP despise you.
You've lost it. Lie down.
But it's true that Labour's support for the union has generally been founded on pragmatism and self-interest, as opposed to the Conservatives' imperial instincts. It'll be interesting to see how long the former lasts if current trends continue.0 -
"Cocktails and buggery" to quote Sir Maurice Bowra.SeanT said:kle4 said:
I think its irritating, but I severely doubt it is so irritating it will cost them - there is zero doubt what their message is.SeanT said:Confession: I rather admire the brazen way the Tories are repeating "strong and stable".
This reminds me of the Labour campaign in 1997. Relentless, even tedious message discipline. Endless reiteration of the central themes. Rinse and repeat, drain and recycle. Everyone in the loop, echoing the same numbingly predictable soundbites. And facing a panicked, feeble opposition, knowing it is doomed to horrible defeat.
The result was a landslide then, and it will surely be a landslide now.
Have the others come up with slogans yet?
"Strong and stable" sounds very appealing, it's what we want. Like "milk and biscuits", or "gin and tonic", or "champagne and spanking", or even "poetry and striptease" (a poem by my father).0 -
Playing Devils Advocate a bit...
The trouble with these electoral arrangements where parties don't stand in a constituency to give "friendly" parties a free run is that it creates questions about what to do at the NEXT election.
For example, If the LibDems stand down in Constituency#1 to let Labour take on the Tories, and then Labour return the compliment in Constituency#2, what happens if the Tories win both seats? Do they continue the same arrangement? Do they swap?
At the very least, I would suggest that there would be have to be a binding agreement to introduce PR if a Rainbow Colaition managed to defeat the Tories, if only to avoid these sort of questions.
Side note: Was Blair's biggest domestic failure that he did not use his majority to change the electoral system to PR?0 -
Surby's founding a new left of centre party that represents the needs of the upper middle classCarlottaVance said:
free prescriptions - for the middle classsurbiton said:
The SNP is a left of centre party.SeanT said:
Literally insane. A pact with the SNP is a pact with a party which is 1. dedicated to the destruction of the UK, a dissolution which will, 2, make any future victory extremely difficult for Labour. The SNP despise you.surbiton said:I believe Labour should be prepared not to stand about 200 candidates [ obviously from the bottom ]. The actual number will be based on what arrangements can be found.
There should be no explicit pact with any party but offers could be made or received on a case-by-case basis from Lib Dems, Greens and even the SNP.
Where Labour has come second or a close third will not come up for discussion. So the local CLP should have no objections except there are enough nutters who will not accept this simple and common sense proposal.
For example, if we do not put up a candidate in Richmond, Surrey the Liberals will have to step down somewhere else.
SLAB may not like this proposal, but there are seats in Scotland NE where Labour votes however tiny could help the Tories win.
There may not be a seat to concede to the Greens. I can't see where Greens are competing against the Tories.
You've lost it. Lie down.
free university tuition - for the middle class
Paid for by less access to higher education for the poorer and declining education standards.
On what planet is that 'left of centre'?
the Demo prats
does what it says on the tin0 -
Don might like to think on the number of current Labour mp's who actually want May to be pm over Corbyn.kle4 said:I would advise people to read the thread, it is a useful pointer to a bit of a dilemma. Don hates TMay and the Tories - truly hates, it is clear from the vituperative language he always employs - and he loves the Labour brand, but he also is totally against Corbyn. The mental conflicts that can cause is something plenty in Labour are going through right now, and the scale of the expected Tory win will come down in a lot of areas to whether the dislike of Corbyn (or belief that the only way to properly be rid of him is for Lab to get a hammering) is trumped by the hatred of the Tories, that bolstering Corbyn by saving MPs who are implicitly saying they think he should be PM, is necessary for the good of the brand, the brand that the country needs. Even so he is still able to recognize the Greens are not as firm allies in the Tory fight as might be thought, so he's not subsuming everything to the Tory hate.
Just think on that and weep mr Brind - this is how fucked your party is.0 -
How about asking Neil Kinnock to reprise his fight with the left?murali_s said:
Even with a Tory landslide, Corbyn will hang on and possibly win a leadership election.Sandpit said:
But if it's anything other than a reverse of 1997, will it be enough for the sensibles like yourself to kick out Corbyn and his fellow travellers from the party, and retake it with the wish to be a party of government once again?murali_s said:
All landslides are bad for democracy - full stop. In 1997, I was happy that Labour had won but wary of that huge majority.Fishing said:"If you doubt that nastiness lives on in Toryland despite the election of the vicar’s daughter look no further than the Defence Secretary Michael Fallon. He is the attack dog whistled up by Lynton Crosby to spread a bit of ugliness."
From the party of Alistair Campbell and Damien McBride, isn't that a bit rich?
"I don’t always agree with Tim Farron but the Lib Dem leader is spot on when he tells voters “a Conservative landslide means they will take you for granted wherever you live.”"
So a Labour landslide, as between 1997 and 2005, was a powerful mandate to implement constructive policies for a better Britain, while a Conservative landslide is a licence to be take for granted?
The Tories regrouped after '97, it took them a while but when the government faltered a decade later they had got themselves back into a winnable position.
If the majority ends up being only 50 or 60, isn't it most likely that Corbyn puts the losses down to a lack of party unity, the Evil Blairites and the right-wing press, and carries on with the purge?
So either you give the Tories a landslide or your party splits in half, which is it to be?
I really don't know how the centre-left can progress in this country. We have been defeated, not by the enemy but from within.
Good evening, everyone.0 -
Why do those on the left like to imagine that nastiness is the preserve of Conservatives? May I recommend to Mr Brind the memoirs of Damian McBride.One of Labours greatest mistakes is its sanctimonious assertion of moral superiority.0
-
Whatever happened to the Labour man who used to do PB threads - minds gone blank - famously posted 'make it stop' during one of Ed M's speeches at Lab conference.
He had a bit of balance for us PB Tories to not knee-jerk against every time.
Is he on twitter?0 -
There are three things we can't avoid:
death and taxes; and Brexit.
And, bankrupted, the latter will be the death of us all.0 -
If you click the link to the PB thread it has a link to how the ERS came up with such figuressurbiton said:
How did you work out the AV and STV seats ? Surely, that involves ranking by voters.TheScreamingEagles said:Intelligent voting?
The 2015 GE if it had been fought under different voting systems, such as AV.
I even did a thread on it
http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2016/01/24/electoral-reform-might-not-be-the-panacea-the-left-think-it-is/0 -
No kidding. If Lucas wins in Brighton due to others standing aside, when she retires should that continue? The same reasoning will apply for standing down.Disraeli said:Playing Devils Advocate a bit...
The trouble with these electoral arrangements where parties don't stand in a constituency to give "friendly" parties a free run is that it creates questions about what to do at the NEXT election.0 -
I think the first thing might cover that one off already.Toms said:There are three things we can't avoid:
death and taxes; and Brexit.
And, bankrupted, the latter will be the death of us all.0 -
-
Off-topic:
Has anyone mentioned this story yet? A ward where no-one wants to stand at the locals:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-395602540 -
LOL - they actually moved fairly quickly this time it seems.another_richard said:Has this received its due attention yet:
' Labour has sacked one of its parliamentary candidates following allegations that he suggested that Europeans should “eradicate Islam from our continent”.
The Independent understands that Labour's investigation centred around the @wellingblueboy Twitter account, which is alleged to have been that of Trevor Merralls, who was until today the Labour parliamentary candidate for the safe Tory seat of Old Bexley and Sidcup. '
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-trevor-merralls-eradicate-islam-tweets-parliamentary-candidate-investigation-racist-muslims-a7713111.html
Will they quietly let him back in once things quieten down, they do have form.0 -
It is nonsense and could not be delivered anyway. Voters are not chess pieces who can just be moved around at the direction of a political party. If the LibDems stood down in support of Labour in a particular seat many of their ertwhile supportes would ignore them and vote Tory in preference to Labour. An arrangement with the Greens would be easier - but would only affect a handful of seats. Even then it is likely that 20% of Greens would vote Tory rather than Labour.surbiton said:I believe Labour should be prepared not to stand about 200 candidates [ obviously from the bottom ]. The actual number will be based on what arrangements can be found.
There should be no explicit pact with any party but offers could be made or received on a case-by-case basis from Lib Dems, Greens and even the SNP.
Where Labour has come second or a close third will not come up for discussion. So the local CLP should have no objections except there are enough nutters who will not accept this simple and common sense proposal.
For example, if we do not put up a candidate in Richmond, Surrey the Liberals will have to step down somewhere else.
SLAB may not like this proposal, but there are seats in Scotland NE where Labour votes however tiny could help the Tories win.
There may not be a seat to concede to the Greens. I can't see where Greens are competing against the Tories.0 -
Annoying as the repetition is you are almost certainly correct about the phrase having been tested and found to be effective. I also suspect that the antonyms score very poorly and have been associated by focus groups with Labour, and Corbyn in particular, "weak and unstable" sounds true. It's the implied message that matters almost as much as the overt message. "Coalition of chaos" probably came from the same testing.SeanT said:The world is scary. Islamism is scary. Climate change is scary. Brexit is scary. Strong and stable??? YES PLEASE. We don't want Hope and Change, We Want Strong and Stable.
Presumably they focus-grouped it to death, and found that it hit home.
It works.0 -
I think we are going to go with 'L is for Labour, L is for Lice' again this year in order to win the nit-nurse vote.kle4 said:
I think its irritating, but I severely doubt it is so irritating it will cost them - there is zero doubt what their message is.SeanT said:Confession: I rather admire the brazen way the Tories are repeating "strong and stable".
This reminds me of the Labour campaign in 1997. Relentless, even tedious message discipline. Endless reiteration of the central themes. Rinse and repeat, drain and recycle. Everyone in the loop, echoing the same numbingly predictable soundbites. And facing a panicked, feeble opposition, knowing it is doomed to horrible defeat.
The result was a landslide then, and it will surely be a landslide now.
Have the others come up with slogans yet?0 -
Jeez, not her again! They should never have let her out after she caused a serious diplomatic and security incident with the Americans a few years ago. She needs to see a shrink somewhere away from the rest of us, is Carstairs "Hospital" still open?Scott_P said:@daily_politics: RT @BBCScotlandNews: 72-year-old woman admits sending death threats to Theresa May https://t.co/PLGzEiFjmH https://twitter.com/BBCScotlandNews/status/859443171335557120/photo/1
0 -
LOL - missed C4 news will look out for it on plus 1Roger said:Well if Labour really are trying to avoid a Tory landslide Channel 4 News doesn't make good watching. In an interview with Emily Thornberry Cathy Newman asked whether a Party planning for government should have a Home Secretary who can add up less well than an 8 year old and a Shadow Chancellor marching under a Syrian flag during a general election campaign.
Bring back Michael Gove!0 -
https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/859478038970544128
This: Tories have already weaponised Diane Abbott's car-crash interview - but she is also described as "Corbyn's Shadow Home Secretary."
Everything includes a reminder that a vote for Labour is a vote for Corbyn. Five more solid weeks of Corbyn, Corbyn, Corbyn still to come...0 -
Off-topic:
I was just skimming through Wikipedia looking for something, and saw the maps of constituencies at the 1983 election:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1983#/media/File:UK_General_Election,_1983.svg
It would be great if these could be made into an animated svg / gif / png so you can watch the colours and constituencies change over time.
If only I had the time ...0 -
No Hard Brexit.SeanT said:
In three words?rcs1000 said:
Everyone knows what the LibDems stand for. But it's a message that resonates only in student halls and in the leafiest suburbs and garden towns of South East England.SeanT said:
Quite. I have no idea what Labour stands for, or indeed the LDs, or UKIP. Certainly I can't sum it up in three words. I guess the SNP stand for "Another Independence Referendum!" but I'm not sure it's that popular, even in Scotland.kle4 said:
I think its irritating, but I severely doubt it is so irritating it will cost them - there is zero doubt what their message is.SeanT said:Confession: I rather admire the brazen way the Tories are repeating "strong and stable".
This reminds me of the Labour campaign in 1997. Relentless, even tedious message discipline. Endless reiteration of the central themes. Rinse and repeat, drain and recycle. Everyone in the loop, echoing the same numbingly predictable soundbites. And facing a panicked, feeble opposition, knowing it is doomed to horrible defeat.
The result was a landslide then, and it will surely be a landslide now.
Have the others come up with slogans yet?
"Strong and stable" sounds very appealing, it's what we want. Like "milk and biscuits", or "gin and tonic", or "champagne and spanking", or even "poetry and striptease" (a poem by my father).
The world is scary. Islamism is scary. Climate change is scary. Brexit is scary. Strong and stable??? YES PLEASE. We don't want Hope and Change, We Want Strong and Stable.
Presumably they focus-grouped it to death, and found that it hit home.
It works.
It works because it could mean a number of different things.
No wait, from recent signs I think it is 'Open, Tolerant and United' which as themes go is not terrible, but I had forgotten I had seen it. They are also struggling with what to do with LD Leavers, but their message of united is a clear dig at Labour and sound.0 -
It is absolutely right. So-called "winning" under the current rigged system is merely giving in to The Man. I have heard a vox pop Corbynista on the radio pointing to Farage asan example of how unimportant getting elected to Parliament is to achieving your goals. These, don't forget, are people who marched through London on May 1 2017 chanting "Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin": they don't connect campaigning for stuff, with stuff which has any chance of actually happening. So an influx of Corbynista campaigners to Labour will be about as helpful as the suicide squad in "Life of Brian".Scott_P said:Here is an alternative Labour slogan
@mattforde: Met some Labour activists on a street stall yesterday. One of them told me that the election "isn't all about winning". What a message.0 -
There Isn't One.SeanT said:
In three words?rcs1000 said:
Everyone knows what the LibDems stand for. But it's a message that resonates only in student halls and in the leafiest suburbs and garden towns of South East England.SeanT said:
Quite. I have no idea what Labour stands for, or indeed the LDs, or UKIP. Certainly I can't sum it up in three words. I guess the SNP stand for "Another Independence Referendum!" but I'm not sure it's that popular, even in Scotland.kle4 said:
I think its irritating, but I severely doubt it is so irritating it will cost them - there is zero doubt what their message is.SeanT said:Confession: I rather admire the brazen way the Tories are repeating "strong and stable".
This reminds me of the Labour campaign in 1997. Relentless, even tedious message discipline. Endless reiteration of the central themes. Rinse and repeat, drain and recycle. Everyone in the loop, echoing the same numbingly predictable soundbites. And facing a panicked, feeble opposition, knowing it is doomed to horrible defeat.
The result was a landslide then, and it will surely be a landslide now.
Have the others come up with slogans yet?
"Strong and stable" sounds very appealing, it's what we want. Like "milk and biscuits", or "gin and tonic", or "champagne and spanking", or even "poetry and striptease" (a poem by my father).
The world is scary. Islamism is scary. Climate change is scary. Brexit is scary. Strong and stable??? YES PLEASE. We don't want Hope and Change, We Want Strong and Stable.
Presumably they focus-grouped it to death, and found that it hit home.
It works.
I'm seriously interested. I have to come up with commercial thriller titles, and it's fucking hard, and it's well known that you need to hone the title until it is perfect, taking into account known publishing truths, e.g. five syllables is best. The Da Vinci Code. Five syllables.
And there are many other rules. e.g. psych domestic thriller titles ideally need to reference the main character, and provide a human element - The Girl on the Train, The Ice Twins.
The same must apply to political slogans for parties in elections. Three words seems good. What is the LD pitch in three words?0 -
Brilliant, "Labour: it's not the winning but the taking part that counts", the losers motto for a losing party.Scott_P said:Here is an alternative Labour slogan
@mattforde: Met some Labour activists on a street stall yesterday. One of them told me that the election "isn't all about winning". What a message.0 -
No, his biggest domestic failure was not reshuffling Brown out of the Treasury after the 2001 election.Disraeli said:Side note: Was Blair's biggest domestic failure that he did not use his majority to change the electoral system to PR?
His biggest failing relating to PR was introducing it for the European elections which gave UKIP such a strong foothold.0 -
Would it deny the Tories though? In Scotland (where I am right now, incidentally) it would hurt the Tories, in Middle England it would help them.surbiton said:
The SNP is a left of centre party. To deny the Tories, I would do anything. In any case, the SNP holds those seats right now.SeanT said:
Literally insane. A pact with the SNP is a pact with a party which is 1. dedicated to the destruction of the UK, a dissolution which will, 2, make any future victory extremely difficult for Labour. The SNP despise you.surbiton said:I believe Labour should be prepared not to stand about 200 candidates [ obviously from the bottom ]. The actual number will be based on what arrangements can be found.
There should be no explicit pact with any party but offers could be made or received on a case-by-case basis from Lib Dems, Greens and even the SNP.
Where Labour has come second or a close third will not come up for discussion. So the local CLP should have no objections except there are enough nutters who will not accept this simple and common sense proposal.
For example, if we do not put up a candidate in Richmond, Surrey the Liberals will have to step down somewhere else.
SLAB may not like this proposal, but there are seats in Scotland NE where Labour votes however tiny could help the Tories win.
There may not be a seat to concede to the Greens. I can't see where Greens are competing against the Tories.
You've lost it. Lie down.
"Labour might form a coalition with the SNP" was incredibly effective in 2015. "Labour are propping up the SNP" would be electoral dynamite.0 -
Better together.SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?
STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
0 -
Nah, wrong religion. If the silly sausage had suggested that he would like to eradicate Israel instead, he'd more likely have been promoted to a far more winnable constituency.Floater said:
LOL - they actually moved fairly quickly this time it seems.another_richard said:Has this received its due attention yet:
' Labour has sacked one of its parliamentary candidates following allegations that he suggested that Europeans should “eradicate Islam from our continent”.
The Independent understands that Labour's investigation centred around the @wellingblueboy Twitter account, which is alleged to have been that of Trevor Merralls, who was until today the Labour parliamentary candidate for the safe Tory seat of Old Bexley and Sidcup. '
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-trevor-merralls-eradicate-islam-tweets-parliamentary-candidate-investigation-racist-muslims-a7713111.html
Will they quietly let him back in once things quieten down, they do have form.0 -
Scott, he's nearly got it right. The election 'isn't all about voting' is, I think, the correct version.Scott_P said:Here is an alternative Labour slogan
@mattforde: Met some Labour activists on a street stall yesterday. One of them told me that the election "isn't all about winning". What a message.0 -
I think there are some animations out there... This one for instance:JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
I was just skimming through Wikipedia looking for something, and saw the maps of constituencies at the 1983 election:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1983#/media/File:UK_General_Election,_1983.svg
It would be great if these could be made into an animated svg / gif / png so you can watch the colours and constituencies change over time.
If only I had the time ...
https://sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/maps/elections/elections.htm
If you wanted one just from 1983 onwards I could easily make one (just have to download the files and use ImageMagik to create the gif)0 -
That is brilliant even by Matt's usual high standards.CarlottaVance said:0 -
MORE EUROPE FOREVERSeanT said:
In three words?rcs1000 said:
Everyone knows what the LibDems stand for. But it's a message that resonates only in student halls and in the leafiest suburbs and garden towns of South East England.SeanT said:
Quite. I have no idea what Labour stands for, or indeed the LDs, or UKIP. Certainly I can't sum it up in three words. I guess the SNP stand for "Another Independence Referendum!" but I'm not sure it's that popular, even in Scotland.kle4 said:
I think its irritating, but I severely doubt it is so irritating it will cost them - there is zero doubt what their message is.SeanT said:Confession: I rather admire the brazen way the Tories are repeating "strong and stable".
This reminds me of the Labour campaign in 1997. Relentless, even tedious message discipline. Endless reiteration of the central themes. Rinse and repeat, drain and recycle. Everyone in the loop, echoing the same numbingly predictable soundbites. And facing a panicked, feeble opposition, knowing it is doomed to horrible defeat.
The result was a landslide then, and it will surely be a landslide now.
Have the others come up with slogans yet?
"Strong and stable" sounds very appealing, it's what we want. Like "milk and biscuits", or "gin and tonic", or "champagne and spanking", or even "poetry and striptease" (a poem by my father).
The world is scary. Islamism is scary. Climate change is scary. Brexit is scary. Strong and stable??? YES PLEASE. We don't want Hope and Change, We Want Strong and Stable.
Presumably they focus-grouped it to death, and found that it hit home.
It works.
I'm seriously interested. I have to come up with commercial thriller titles, and it's fucking hard, and it's well known that you need to hone the title until it is perfect, taking into account known publishing truths, e.g. five syllables is best. The Da Vinci Code. Five syllables.
And there are many other rules. e.g. psych domestic thriller titles ideally need to reference the main character, and provide a human element - The Girl on the Train, The Ice Twins.
The same must apply to political slogans for parties in elections. Three words seems good. What is the LD pitch in three words?
WE TELL LIES0 -
On the last thread Isam posted the clip of Diane Abbott "just putting the case for Mao". In between her putting the case for Mao, Ken Livingstone putting the case for Hitler, and McDonnell putting the case for Stalin, the party covers all the bases of genocidal politics.Ishmael_Z said:These, don't forget, are people who marched through London on May 1 2017 chanting "Marx, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin": they don't connect campaigning for stuff, with stuff which has any chance of actually happening. So an influx of Corbynista campaigners to Labour will be about as helpful as the suicide squad in "Life of Brian".
0 -
The 'declining standards' but is very left of centre.CarlottaVance said:
free prescriptions - for the middle classsurbiton said:
The SNP is a left of centre party.SeanT said:
Literally insane. A pact with the SNP is a pact with a party which is 1. dedicated to the destruction of the UK, a dissolution which will, 2, make any future victory extremely difficult for Labour. The SNP despise you.surbiton said:I believe Labour should be prepared not to stand about 200 candidates [ obviously from the bottom ]. The actual number will be based on what arrangements can be found.
There should be no explicit pact with any party but offers could be made or received on a case-by-case basis from Lib Dems, Greens and even the SNP.
Where Labour has come second or a close third will not come up for discussion. So the local CLP should have no objections except there are enough nutters who will not accept this simple and common sense proposal.
For example, if we do not put up a candidate in Richmond, Surrey the Liberals will have to step down somewhere else.
SLAB may not like this proposal, but there are seats in Scotland NE where Labour votes however tiny could help the Tories win.
There may not be a seat to concede to the Greens. I can't see where Greens are competing against the Tories.
You've lost it. Lie down.
free university tuition - for the middle class
Paid for by less access to higher education for the poorer and declining education standards.
On what planet is that 'left of centre'?0 -
"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?
STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"0 -
I'm sure that Hilary Benn doesn't want to stand, but I think for the sake of the party he has to.Y0kel said:Questions:
If the damage is as bad for Labour as many are predicting, what is going to be the balance in the PLP?
What people are likely to be left to lead an attempt to get rid of Corbyn?
More particularly who is going to put their head above the parapet?0 -
Still looking if Labour have a pithy phrase lined up yet.
'Shape the Future' is one I've seen, but it's a bit wishy washy.0 -
@faisalislam: PM in Bristol East tried to fire up activists with suggestions polls could be wrong, Corbyn was a 200/1 shot 2015: activists laugh. Problem.0
-
Nothing like offering support for a colleague.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/8594785321158451220 -
Make Merkel moistEssexit said:
"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?
STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"
0 -
-
@sionsimon: Let's build the future with the pride of our past. On Thursday 4th May, vote for a local Labour mayor to put the We… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/8578833706086236160
-
Thanks for that - though I'd prefer the wiki style map rather than an equal-population one.RobD said:
I think there are some animations out there... This one for instance:JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
I was just skimming through Wikipedia looking for something, and saw the maps of constituencies at the 1983 election:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1983#/media/File:UK_General_Election,_1983.svg
It would be great if these could be made into an animated svg / gif / png so you can watch the colours and constituencies change over time.
If only I had the time ...
https://sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/maps/elections/elections.htm
If you wanted one just from 1983 onwards I could easily make one (just have to download the files and use ImageMagik to create the gif)
Imagemagick is cool. Half of the maps on my website were created from SVG using it.
If you don' get around to it, I might have a play tomorrow if the little 'un allows me.0 -
On Topic
The truth of the headline depends on who you mean by "Labour". If you mean the current Leadership my guess is that they would welcome a Tory landslide - the more extreme the Government, the better. Corbyn & co are interested in leading a Revolution not getting more "Red Tory" Labour MPs.
Of course most Labour MPs, Coucillors & activists are desperate to stop The Tories but they have no idea how. New Labour & Corbynism alike have left most of them bereft of values or ideas. There are exceptions but how do they campaign for a Party they dont represent ?0 -
It dont add upkle4 said:Still looking if Labour have a pithy phrase lined up yet.
'Shape the Future' is one I've seen, but it's a bit wishy washy.0 -
@DFosterEvans: This from @Conorpope is really excellent. He actually hates the progressive alliance more than I do. Wow. http://www.progressonline.org.uk/2017/05/02/beware-fringe-parties-bearing-pacts/
So, when the idea of an electoral alliance is proposed, we should be wary. The aim of these suggested pacts is not – not ever, not even occasionally – to help the Labour party. It is to weaken the Labour party and help themselves.
Recall the televised ‘challengers’ debate’ from the 2015 election: it was a disaster. With David Cameron absent, the Greens, SNP, Liberal Democrats and Plaid Cymru all used the opportunity to lay into Ed Miliband. Faced with Labour in a position of weakness, they pounced. They are not our progressive allies, they are our opponents.
Now, they see opportunity in Labour’s weakness again. Not to help make us stronger, but to weaken us further.0 -
Juice Juncker's junkAlanbrooke said:
Make Merkel moistEssexit said:
"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?
STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"0 -
Comment from Labour activist in replydr_spyn said:Nothing like offering support for a colleague.
https://twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/859478532115845122
Sorry Yvette,The damage is done,One man literally laughed at me when I knocked this afternoon , We are losing a 100 years of labour May 4th.0 -
Taking back Control of the West Midlands. Where did that slogan come from?Scott_P said:@sionsimon: Let's build the future with the pride of our past. On Thursday 4th May, vote for a local Labour mayor to put the We… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/857883370608623616
0 -
>
Seems to be easy in sci-fi, where half the time I can finish a book and not have a clue why it has the title it does.SeanT said:
I'm seriously interested. I have to come up with commercial thriller titles, and it's fucking hard, and it's well known that you need to hone the title until it is perfect, taking into account known publishing truths, e.g. five syllables is best. The Da Vinci Code. Five syllables.
And there are many other rules. e.g. psych domestic thriller titles ideally need to reference the main character, and provide a human element - The Girl on the Train, The Ice Twins.
0 -
Oddly enough I don't see the story in the Guardian.Floater said:
LOL - they actually moved fairly quickly this time it seems.another_richard said:Has this received its due attention yet:
' Labour has sacked one of its parliamentary candidates following allegations that he suggested that Europeans should “eradicate Islam from our continent”.
The Independent understands that Labour's investigation centred around the @wellingblueboy Twitter account, which is alleged to have been that of Trevor Merralls, who was until today the Labour parliamentary candidate for the safe Tory seat of Old Bexley and Sidcup. '
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-trevor-merralls-eradicate-islam-tweets-parliamentary-candidate-investigation-racist-muslims-a7713111.html
Will they quietly let him back in once things quieten down, they do have form.
0 -
That sound you can hear is me throwing up in the cornerAlanbrooke said:
Make Merkel moistEssexit said:
"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?
STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"0 -
Based on their attitudes since I think the most accurate slogan they could have used to reflect their opinions is:Alanbrooke said:
Make Merkel moistEssexit said:
"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?
STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"
"You are too dumb to vote"0 -
"For LAB the onjective is to avert a Tory landslide – but how"
They can't, the game is up, they're finished.0 -
You only need two words.SeanT said:
In three words?rcs1000 said:
Everyone knows what the LibDems stand for. But it's a message that resonates only in student halls and in the leafiest suburbs and garden towns of South East England.SeanT said:
Quite. I have no idea what Labour stands for, or indeed the LDs, or UKIP. Certainly I can't sum it up in three words. I guess the SNP stand for "Another Independence Referendum!" but I'm not sure it's that popular, even in Scotland.kle4 said:
I think its irritating, but I severely doubt it is so irritating it will cost them - there is zero doubt what their message is.SeanT said:Confession: I rather admire the brazen way the Tories are repeating "strong and stable".
This reminds me of the Labour campaign in 1997. Relentless, even tedious message discipline. Endless reiteration of the central themes. Rinse and repeat, drain and recycle. Everyone in the loop, echoing the same numbingly predictable soundbites. And facing a panicked, feeble opposition, knowing it is doomed to horrible defeat.
The result was a landslide then, and it will surely be a landslide now.
Have the others come up with slogans yet?
"Strong and stable" sounds very appealing, it's what we want. Like "milk and biscuits", or "gin and tonic", or "champagne and spanking", or even "poetry and striptease" (a poem by my father).
The world is scary. Islamism is scary. Climate change is scary. Brexit is scary. Strong and stable??? YES PLEASE. We don't want Hope and Change, We Want Strong and Stable.
Presumably they focus-grouped it to death, and found that it hit home.
It works.
I'm seriously interested. I have to come up with commercial thriller titles, and it's fucking hard, and it's well known that you need to hone the title until it is perfect, taking into account known publishing truths, e.g. five syllables is best. The Da Vinci Code. Five syllables.
And there are many other rules. e.g. psych domestic thriller titles ideally need to reference the main character, and provide a human element - The Girl on the Train, The Ice Twins.
The same must apply to political slogans for parties in elections. Three words seems good. What is the LD pitch in three words?
Europe. Yay.0 -
With Labour it never adds upAlanbrooke said:
It dont add upkle4 said:Still looking if Labour have a pithy phrase lined up yet.
'Shape the Future' is one I've seen, but it's a bit wishy washy.0 -
Make room for me.Floater said:
That sound you can hear is me throwing up in the cornerAlanbrooke said:
Make Merkel moistEssexit said:
"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?
STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"0 -
Re Abbot's extra plods
Has anyone explained that for the extra plods to actually do something useful will require extra money over and above what they will be paid ?
Or is the idea to have the extra plods sitting around doing nothing ?
0 -
"Posh Lives Matter" would go down well w Citizen Smythes in Kensington and Richmondanother_richard said:
MORE EUROPE FOREVERSeanT said:
In three words?rcs1000 said:
Everyone knows what the LibDems stand for. But it's a message that resonates only in student halls and in the leafiest suburbs and garden towns of South East England.SeanT said:
Quite. I have no idea what Labour stands for, or indeed the LDs, or UKIP. Certainly I can't sum it up in three words. I guess the SNP stand for "Another Independence Referendum!" but I'm not sure it's that popular, even in Scotland.kle4 said:
I think its irritating, but I severely doubt it is so irritating it will cost them - there is zero doubt what their message is.SeanT said:Confession: I rather admire the brazen way the Tories are repeating "strong and stable".
This reminds me of the Labour campaign in 1997. Relentless, even tedious message discipline. Endless reiteration of the central themes. Rinse and repeat, drain and recycle. Everyone in the loop, echoing the same numbingly predictable soundbites. And facing a panicked, feeble opposition, knowing it is doomed to horrible defeat.
The result was a landslide then, and it will surely be a landslide now.
Have the others come up with slogans yet?
"Strong and stable" sounds very appealing, it's what we want. Like "milk and biscuits", or "gin and tonic", or "champagne and spanking", or even "poetry and striptease" (a poem by my father).
The world is scary. Islamism is scary. Climate change is scary. Brexit is scary. Strong and stable??? YES PLEASE. We don't want Hope and Change, We Want Strong and Stable.
Presumably they focus-grouped it to death, and found that it hit home.
It works.
I'm seriously interested. I have to come up with commercial thriller titles, and it's fucking hard, and it's well known that you need to hone the title until it is perfect, taking into account known publishing truths, e.g. five syllables is best. The Da Vinci Code. Five syllables.
And there are many other rules. e.g. psych domestic thriller titles ideally need to reference the main character, and provide a human element - The Girl on the Train, The Ice Twins.
The same must apply to political slogans for parties in elections. Three words seems good. What is the LD pitch in three words?
WE TELL LIES0 -
The problems with political slogans are that they need to be pithy while at the same time also remind voters of specific policies or stances. Very difficult.kle4 said:Still looking if Labour have a pithy phrase lined up yet.
'Shape the Future' is one I've seen, but it's a bit wishy washy.
"Take Back Control" was ingenious because it stuck in the mind, while also referring to a whole load of policies: taking back control of the immigration system, taking back control of the legal system, taking back control of the supposed £350m a week, etc.
I'm unsure whether "Strong And Stable" is as much of a knockout, it's not exactly a million miles off the Remain campaign's "Stronger, Safer and Better Off" or whatever it was. It doesn't seem to be directly tied to any actual policies or good reasons to vote Tory. Not that they need a good slogan when the general weather is so good for them, mind.0 -
Fools rush out.Essexit said:
"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?
STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"0 -
Sky say THAT interview was "excrutiating" LOL -0
-
I think the plan is to have Abbott do every TV slot till GE2017. She makes Corbyn look good.freetochoose said:"For LAB the onjective is to avert a Tory landslide – but how"
They can't, the game is up, they're finished.0 -
You're only allowed three words!Richard_Tyndall said:
Based on their attitudes since I think the most accurate slogan they could have used to reflect their opinions is:Alanbrooke said:
Make Merkel moistEssexit said:
"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?
STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"
"You are too dumb to vote"0 -
Absolutely. Labour's hubris wasn't only that they had somehow abolished economic gravity, but political gravity as well.Disraeli said:Playing Devils Advocate a bit...
The trouble with these electoral arrangements where parties don't stand in a constituency to give "friendly" parties a free run is that it creates questions about what to do at the NEXT election.
For example, If the LibDems stand down in Constituency#1 to let Labour take on the Tories, and then Labour return the compliment in Constituency#2, what happens if the Tories win both seats? Do they continue the same arrangement? Do they swap?
At the very least, I would suggest that there would be have to be a binding agreement to introduce PR if a Rainbow Colaition managed to defeat the Tories, if only to avoid these sort of questions.
Side note: Was Blair's biggest domestic failure that he did not use his majority to change the electoral system to PR?0 -
They're all too long. You've only got three words.Essexit said:
"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?
STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"0 -
Vorsprung durch Diktatrcs1000 said:
You're only allowed three words!Richard_Tyndall said:
Based on their attitudes since I think the most accurate slogan they could have used to reflect their opinions is:Alanbrooke said:
Make Merkel moistEssexit said:
"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?
STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"
"You are too dumb to vote"0 -
For perhaps the first time ever, you make two points I agree with entirely!williamglenn said:
No, his biggest domestic failure was not reshuffling Brown out of the Treasury after the 2001 election.Disraeli said:Side note: Was Blair's biggest domestic failure that he did not use his majority to change the electoral system to PR?
His biggest failing relating to PR was introducing it for the European elections which gave UKIP such a strong foothold.
Labour's complete failure now is down to Brown from 2001-2007, when he opened the spending taps wide, while crushing any opposition to him within the party.
Party lists are perhaps the worst electoral system of all, leaving all the power with internal party patronage rather than the people.0 -
My slight reservation about Strong & Stable Government is that I wouldn't be astonished to learn that the Nazis road tested it in the early 30s before going with Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer.SeanT said:
My (seriously brilliant) agent told me her seven year old son was anti-Brexit until he heard that slogan: TAKE BACK CONTROLkle4 said:
I thought it was a good one too, though if memory serves some UKIP posters didn't like it.SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
As a Mass Effect fan I'd have preferred Assuming Direct Control, but you cannot have everything.
At that point he said "Yes, that sounds good, we should take back control" and became very pro-Brexit
Perhaps all political slogans should be tested on bright seven year olds.0 -
@thetimesscot: Sturgeon has admitted that the independence question will be at the heart of the election campaign. #GE17… https://twitter.com/i/web/status/8594836419189596180
-
Correct. Most voters outside of Scotland dislike the SNP, many of them intensely. The Lab-Nat pact is like strychnine to English Labour's electoral chances.Essexit said:
Would it deny the Tories though? In Scotland (where I am right now, incidentally) it would hurt the Tories, in Middle England it would help them.surbiton said:The SNP is a left of centre party. To deny the Tories, I would do anything. In any case, the SNP holds those seats right now.
"Labour might form a coalition with the SNP" was incredibly effective in 2015. "Labour are propping up the SNP" would be electoral dynamite.
Besides which, the SNP is a party which spent years not merely capping but freezing council tax, devised an Orwellian scheme which would've given every child in Scotland a state-appointed "guardian," which paid for free tuition for (mostly middle class) uni students in part by slashing the budgets of FE colleges, and which has responded to the extensive devolution of power to vary income tax rates and bands by changing almost nothing that the Conservative Government at Westminster has endorsed, save for a largely symbolic freeze to the higher rate threshold. Other much-vaunted freebies such as "free" prescriptions and elderly care (the second of which, at least, also disproportionately benefits the well-to-do elderly, who don't have to cash in their property wealth to help fund it,) are underwritten by Barnett subsidy and not through progressive taxation and the active redistribution of wealth.
I therefore challenge the notion that the SNP are a "left of centre" party. They are an all things to all people party, which keeps its electoral coalition together by shouting "Independence!" (in a country where nationalism has grown very popular) and "Tories!" (in a country where Tories are still widely disliked) over and over and over and over and over again. Individuals within the SNP have quite widely varying positions along the left-right spectrum, but in terms of policy they probably aren't even as far to the left as Tony Blair was.0 -
Epic Fuck UpEssexit said:"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"
EDIT: The beauty of this slogan, apart from the lovely alliterative quality, is that is can apply both to the campaign, and the result.0 -
Honesty? EU instead.
Migrants matter more.
EU EU EU.
Sandals from Brussels.
0 -
Thing is, that probably would have worked better than "Stronger, Safer, Better Off".AlastairMeeks said:
Fools rush out.Essexit said:
"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?
STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"0 -
Are you sure that wasn't you?SeanT said:
My (seriously brilliant) agent told me her seven year old son was anti-Brexit until he heard that slogan: TAKE BACK CONTROLkle4 said:
I thought it was a good one too, though if memory serves some UKIP posters didn't like it.SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
As a Mass Effect fan I'd have preferred Assuming Direct Control, but you cannot have everything.
At that point he said "Yes, that sounds good, we should take back control" and became very pro-Brexit
Perhaps all political slogans should be tested on bright seven year olds. 0 -
I was very tempted not to read past the first sentence. I'm sure others have made the point but May never said that the Tories were the nasty party. Don, of course, is more than happy to misrepresent what she said.
One reason I'm not contributing threads during the election campaign is that I don't write well when I'm commenting on something I have a vested interest in. Who wants to read cheerleading? Worse, who wants to read self-censored 'analysis'? On a betting site, to not give an impartial assessment is unworthy and unfair to those who might be persuaded.0 -
I think it notable the BBC write up includes the rather bold, for them, statementanother_richard said:Re Abbot's extra plods
Has anyone explained that for the extra plods to actually do something useful will require extra money over and above what they will be paid ?
Or is the idea to have the extra plods sitting around doing nothing ?
The BBC's assistant political editor Norman Smith said it was a "toe-curling" moment but there was a serious point - either Ms Abbott, who aspired to run the Home Office, had not done her homework on a key policy announcement, or Labour's numbers were a "bit flaky".
Even before getting in to the point you raise.0 -
Read it and weep Don
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sketch-the-ups-and-downs-of-diane-abbots-police-officer-live-salary-tracker-labour-general-election-a7713596.html
This is the Independent, the INDEPENDENT FFS0 -
A slogan for that would encourage people to vote remain, not describe the decision to hold a referendumScott_P said:
Epic Fuck UpEssexit said:"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"0 -
"Vote Leave, Take Control" was four.rcs1000 said:
They're all too long. You've only got three words.Essexit said:
"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
That probably won the Brexit referendum, by itself. What was the Remain alternative?
STAY INSIDE A SLIGHTLY DYSFUNCTIONAL QUASI-FEDERAL EUROPEAN POLITICAL BLOC FOR THE PURPOSES OF FREE TRADE AND STUFF LIKE THAT
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"0 -
Their time won't return, their time has been and gone in a succession of failed socialist experiments. Human nature doesn't allow socialism.SeanT said:
He's right. Sensible lefties need to stay sane and calm. Their time will return. There will always be space for the ideas of fairness and equality, as against opportunity and liberty.Scott_P said:@DFosterEvans: This from @Conorpope is really excellent. He actually hates the progressive alliance more than I do. Wow. http://www.progressonline.org.uk/2017/05/02/beware-fringe-parties-bearing-pacts/
So, when the idea of an electoral alliance is proposed, we should be wary. The aim of these suggested pacts is not – not ever, not even occasionally – to help the Labour party. It is to weaken the Labour party and help themselves.
Recall the televised ‘challengers’ debate’ from the 2015 election: it was a disaster. With David Cameron absent, the Greens, SNP, Liberal Democrats and Plaid Cymru all used the opportunity to lay into Ed Miliband. Faced with Labour in a position of weakness, they pounced. They are not our progressive allies, they are our opponents.
Now, they see opportunity in Labour’s weakness again. Not to help make us stronger, but to weaken us further.
Allying with mortal foes like the SNP is a recipe for further disaster. The politics of panic.
Take the hit, get rid of Corbyn, elect a new leader. Labour has a brand and a structure and it will recover, in time.0 -
well it's keeping Mutti Merkel in a jobIshmael_Z said:
My slight reservation about Strong & Stable Government is that I wouldn't be astonished to learn that the Nazis road tested it in the early 30s before going with Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer.SeanT said:
My (seriously brilliant) agent told me her seven year old son was anti-Brexit until he heard that slogan: TAKE BACK CONTROLkle4 said:
I thought it was a good one too, though if memory serves some UKIP posters didn't like it.SeanT said:Another great and powerful three word political slogan
TAKE BACK CONTROL
As a Mass Effect fan I'd have preferred Assuming Direct Control, but you cannot have everything.
At that point he said "Yes, that sounds good, we should take back control" and became very pro-Brexit
Perhaps all political slogans should be tested on bright seven year olds.
Kein Volk, Mein Reich, Dein Fuhrer0 -
We're discussing slogans the Remain campaign could have used, not slogans to describe the Remain campaign.Scott_P said:
Epic Fuck UpEssexit said:"What if Remain had distilled their message into a short slogan?" is a question I've pondered a bit. Here are some candidates:
"Know your place, plebs"
"Do as you're told"
"Because we said so"
"Shut up, vote Remain"0 -
I am happy with party lists provided that the order on the list is the result of a ballot among party members. That's members - not fellow-travellers paying £3!Sandpit said:
For perhaps the first time ever, you make two points I agree with entirely!williamglenn said:
No, his biggest domestic failure was not reshuffling Brown out of the Treasury after the 2001 election.Disraeli said:Side note: Was Blair's biggest domestic failure that he did not use his majority to change the electoral system to PR?
His biggest failing relating to PR was introducing it for the European elections which gave UKIP such a strong foothold.
Labour's complete failure now is down to Brown from 2001-2007, when he opened the spending taps wide, while crushing any opposition to him within the party.
Party lists are perhaps the worst electoral system of all, leaving all the power with internal party patronage rather than the people.0 -
Oh here? Many times today. The politicians and media? Not so much.another_richard said:Re Abbot's extra plods
Has anyone explained that for the extra plods to actually do something useful will require extra money over and above what they will be paid ?
0 -
Argh, they change the format in 2010 to include insets of the populated areas.JosiasJessop said:
Thanks for that - though I'd prefer the wiki style map rather than an equal-population one.RobD said:
I think there are some animations out there... This one for instance:JosiasJessop said:Off-topic:
I was just skimming through Wikipedia looking for something, and saw the maps of constituencies at the 1983 election:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_1983#/media/File:UK_General_Election,_1983.svg
It would be great if these could be made into an animated svg / gif / png so you can watch the colours and constituencies change over time.
If only I had the time ...
https://sasi.group.shef.ac.uk/maps/elections/elections.htm
If you wanted one just from 1983 onwards I could easily make one (just have to download the files and use ImageMagik to create the gif)
Imagemagick is cool. Half of the maps on my website were created from SVG using it.
If you don' get around to it, I might have a play tomorrow if the little 'un allows me.
Here's a first stab at 1983-2005:
http://i.imgur.com/KEK69sd.gif
You can see that the image size is changing, and for some reason Northern Ireland changed shape during this period!
0 -
I did love John Woodcock's reaction when Jo Coburn queried him saying Labour won't win by saying the polls have been wrong before. He just wordlessly dismissed it, all 'argragah' before saying how desperate the Tories are to have people think its on a knife edge to ensure a whitewash. Right or wrong in taking the rather odd stance he has, that reaction tells me he is feeling a lot freer than usual to not indulge in what he thinks is bullcrap.0
-
Theresa May unlikely to be fazed by Juncker meeting leaks
Those who have dealt with the prime minister up close consistently report two things: stubbornness and a long memory.
“She’s the only person I ever saw stand up to both Cameron and Osborne in cabinet,” the MP said. “They did the thing they used to do when they wanted something done — they tag-teamed against her. First Osborne, then Cameron. But she just sat there and said no. You have to say, it was impressive.
http://www.politico.eu/article/may-unlikely-to-be-fazed-by-juncker-meeting-leaks/0 -
To state the obvious Labour's share of the vote would automatically be less than 20% if they don't stand in 200 seats.surbiton said:I believe Labour should be prepared not to stand about 200 candidates [ obviously from the bottom ]. The actual number will be based on what arrangements can be found.
There should be no explicit pact with any party but offers could be made or received on a case-by-case basis from Lib Dems, Greens and even the SNP.
Where Labour has come second or a close third will not come up for discussion. So the local CLP should have no objections except there are enough nutters who will not accept this simple and common sense proposal.
For example, if we do not put up a candidate in Richmond, Surrey the Liberals will have to step down somewhere else.
SLAB may not like this proposal, but there are seats in Scotland NE where Labour votes however tiny could help the Tories win.
There may not be a seat to concede to the Greens. I can't see where Greens are competing against the Tories.0
