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Is the end of the UK the price we'll pay for Brexit?0
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This is true but since Yes had majority in the under 35s and also the C2DEs I would say that they have a bigger task than the No camp and anecdotally I know of many more Yes than No voters who had never voted before.kle4 said:
There is also the challenge of No for the same (some of them at any rate will have been No supporters), and also ensuring in general No voters are as enthused to come out as last time.Saltire said:Also when it comes to changes in the vote from last time it is hard to imagine that the turnout will be any higher than the 85% that was achieved last time and indeed it might well be lower next time. It is one of the big challenges that face the YES camp is to get normal non-voters to turnout again.
This might well be a war of attrition regarding enthusiasm since 2 years is a long way off!0 -
Ugh, it's as long as an american presidential election, but much much worse because it is closer to home.Saltire said:
This is true but since Yes had majority in the under 35s and also the C2DEs I would say that they have a bigger task than the No camp and anecdotally I know of many more Yes than No voters who had never voted before.kle4 said:
There is also the challenge of No for the same (some of them at any rate will have been No supporters), and also ensuring in general No voters are as enthused to come out as last time.Saltire said:Also when it comes to changes in the vote from last time it is hard to imagine that the turnout will be any higher than the 85% that was achieved last time and indeed it might well be lower next time. It is one of the big challenges that face the YES camp is to get normal non-voters to turnout again.
This might well be a war of attrition regarding enthusiasm since 2 years is a long way off!
Hopefully not.Jonathan said:Is the end of the UK the price we'll pay for Brexit?
Where my faint hope remains. But they came out last time.chestnut said:
Ipsos have some likely to vote numbers.kle4 said:
There is also the challenge of No for the same (some of them at any rate will have been No supporters), and also ensuring in general No voters are as enthused to come out as last time.Saltire said:Also when it comes to changes in the vote from last time it is hard to imagine that the turnout will be any higher than the 85% that was achieved last time and indeed it might well be lower next time. It is one of the big challenges that face the YES camp is to get normal non-voters to turnout again.
The frailest are the young and among renters. Both are Yes friendly.0 -
Because they missed out on signing Pan IcTheScreamingEagles said:Can anyone explain to me why Manchester United spent £89 million on Paul Pogba, he seems a very expensive Eric Djemba-Djemba
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Lords Division on Amendment 2.0
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I maintain Clarkson wanted to go. He was the one who told everybody he was on his last chance, without telling people that it seems conceivable the BBC would have fudged things so they didn't have to sack him.SeanT said:How to destroy a TV show.
Top Gear ratings falling again. Down from last week, down 2m from the awful Chris Evans version. Dying.
http://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/national/article/Call-The-Midwife-finale-puts-brakes-on-Top-Gear-viewing-figures-bc95b8ae-6d71-443c-900f-c9b66ca95b4e-ds
What they need to do now is do what Amazon did with GBBO - let someone else keep the brand name, but have their own version which is the same old crew and even better.0 -
Yes have the classic losing demographic.Saltire said:
This is true but since Yes had majority in the under 35s and also the C2DEs I would say that they have a bigger task than the No camp and anecdotally I know of many more Yes than No voters who had never voted before.kle4 said:
There is also the challenge of No for the same (some of them at any rate will have been No supporters), and also ensuring in general No voters are as enthused to come out as last time.Saltire said:Also when it comes to changes in the vote from last time it is hard to imagine that the turnout will be any higher than the 85% that was achieved last time and indeed it might well be lower next time. It is one of the big challenges that face the YES camp is to get normal non-voters to turnout again.
This might well be a war of attrition regarding enthusiasm since 2 years is a long way off!
Brexit was won by the homeowning 50 plussers and lost by the can't-be-arsed, twenty-something renters who would rather play Grand Theft Auto.
And that is for the best because the 20 something renters will grow to be 50 plus homeowners one day but the reverse will never happen.0 -
Janan Ganesh is right that Sturgeon's proposal was meant to be rejected, so that she could stamp her foot and whip up the north-of-the-border nationalism that is based precisely on foot-stamping. But other than that, what is he talking about?
"Mrs May cannot sign off on hard exit terms without risking the loss of Scotland, three-fifths of whose electorate voted for the EU."
So what? What proportion of the Scottish electorate has switched to being pro-independence because if Scotland becomes independent there's a possibility that it might be able to join the EU? 1%? And what proportion will keep to that view once it's pointed out to them that they'll have to install customs posts at the border and check passports, and let in all the Bulgarians and Romanians who want to come, even if they just want to get to England, because that's what the EU will tell them? 0.2%?
"Such terms would not just threaten material harm to a small, trading economy, they would communicate England’s hauteur to the smaller nation."
However much the xenophobic SNP say otherwise, Theresa May does not represent England when she talks with Nicola Sturgeon. May represents Scotland as much as she represents England. And much as it sticks in my craw to say so, May deserves praise for telling Sturgeon to stick her timetable up her sporran.0 -
Top Gear was dying before Clarkson left. The Grand Tour reminds me of when Morecambe and Wise went to ITV.
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Possible North London Derby FA Cup Final for the first time in history.0
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Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.0 -
Division List on EU Amendment 1.
25 Lab peers voted for the amendment
Zero Con Peers voted for the amendment
216 Con Peers present
http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/business-papers/lords/lords-divisions/0 -
The SNP getting some support from Dean the Scream.
https://twitter.com/govhowarddean/status/8413482910067220490 -
Wenger's last match in charge of Arsenal could be losing the FA Cup final to Spurs.Bojabob said:Possible North London Derby FA Cup Final for the first time in history.
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and the bbc have replaced them with little and large.Jonathan said:Top Gear was dying before Clarkson left. The Grand Tour reminds me of when Morecambe and Wise went to ITV.
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Who were popular and went on for years.FrancisUrquhart said:
and the bbc have replaced them with little and large.Jonathan said:Top Gear was dying before Clarkson left. The Grand Tour reminds me of when Morecambe and Wise went to ITV.
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spurs winning 2 matches at Wemberlee..... hmm we can dream!TheScreamingEagles said:
Wenger's last match in charge of Arsenal could be losing the FA Cup final to Spurs.Bojabob said:Possible North London Derby FA Cup Final for the first time in history.
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The American is decent, celebrity brain crash bloody awful. The episodes that were good were very good, but there were too many very poor ones (by poor I mean boring rather than Chris Evans poor)SeanT said:
The Grand Tour was weird. Some moments of genius, some long moments of boredom, too much money, not enough sharp editing. But there were hints it could be great again, at least for a handful of seasons.Jonathan said:Top Gear was dying before Clarkson left. The Grand Tour reminds me of when Morecambe and Wise went to ITV.
There is no such hope in Top Gear. It's now just a really really average-to-dull show about cars, which, of course, Top Gear was until Clarkson revolutionised it.
If I had to bet I'd say the Grand Tour is the more likely survivor, but what's certain is that the BBC has lost its cash cow. Ten zillion people across the world are not gonna watch that dreck with Le Blanc.0 -
Is it next season you play all your games at Wembley?Scrapheap_as_was said:
spurs winning 2 matches at Wemberlee..... hmm we can dream!TheScreamingEagles said:
Wenger's last match in charge of Arsenal could be losing the FA Cup final to Spurs.Bojabob said:Possible North London Derby FA Cup Final for the first time in history.
If so, I'm sticking a cheeky ton on you lot to get relegated.0 -
If she did, she's a moron. Support for independence in the Lithuanian referendum of 1991 was 93%. In Scotland in 2014 it was 45%. Turnout was the same in both referendums: 85%.another_richard said:Is this true, did she really say this:
' Joanna Cherry (SNP, Edinburgh South West) raised the temperature yet further by quoting a Lithuanian constituent who had told her this country is now “worse than Lithuania under the Soviets”. '
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/03/andrew-gimsons-commons-sketch-england-is-the-mother-of-brexit.html
Time for an intelligence test before someone is allowed to become an MP?0 -
I was of course referring to modern day sad, depressing end of pier little and large.Jonathan said:
Who were popular and went on for years.FrancisUrquhart said:
and the bbc have replaced them with little and large.Jonathan said:Top Gear was dying before Clarkson left. The Grand Tour reminds me of when Morecambe and Wise went to ITV.
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High turnout of Con Peers arriving early for EU Bill led to Government winning two very close votes at Report Stage on Higher Education Bill - though they still lost one by a wide margin.0
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Both will end. The cast will move on to other things. 16 years is an amazing run, but it's over.SeanT said:
The Grand Tour was weird. Some moments of genius, some long moments of boredom, too much money, not enough sharp editing. But there were hints it could be great again, at least for a handful of seasons.Jonathan said:Top Gear was dying before Clarkson left. The Grand Tour reminds me of when Morecambe and Wise went to ITV.
There is no such hope in Top Gear. It's now just a really really average-to-dull show about cars, which, of course, Top Gear was until Clarkson revolutionised it.
If I had to bet I'd say the Grand Tour is the more likely survivor, but what's certain is that the BBC has lost its cash cow. Ten zillion people across the world are not gonna watch that dreck with Le Blanc.
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EU Amendment 2:
For - 118
Against - 274
Government wins.
That's it!0 -
This is HUUUUUGGE
EXCLUSIF. Présidentielle : Valls va appeler à soutenir Macron dès le premier tour
http://www.leparisien.fr/elections/presidentielle/presidentielle-l-appel-de-valls-a-soutenir-macron-des-le-premier-tour-13-03-2017-6759426.php0 -
You seem upset by all of this. Tell me about your mother.Cyan said:Janan Ganesh is right that Sturgeon's proposal was meant to be rejected, so that she could stamp her foot and whip up the north-of-the-border nationalism that is based precisely on foot-stamping. But other than that, what is he talking about?
"Mrs May cannot sign off on hard exit terms without risking the loss of Scotland, three-fifths of whose electorate voted for the EU."
So what? What proportion of the Scottish electorate has switched to being pro-independence because if Scotland becomes independent there's a possibility that it might be able to join the EU? 1%? And what proportion will keep to that view once it's pointed out to them that they'll have to install customs posts at the border and check passports, and let in all the Bulgarians and Romanians who want to come, even if they just want to get to England, because that's what the EU will tell them? 0.2%?
"Such terms would not just threaten material harm to a small, trading economy, they would communicate England’s hauteur to the smaller nation."
However much the xenophobic SNP say otherwise, Theresa May does not represent England when she talks with Nicola Sturgeon. May represents Scotland as much as she represents England. And much as it sticks in my craw to say so, May deserves praise for telling Sturgeon to stick her timetable up her sporran.0 -
They would be better relaunching top gear as something different, not looking like the fake Elvis of labour party fame to the genuine article.SeanT said:
Maybe. That's what I've been thinking, too. But Clarkson is an authentic comic genius. He will have read the critiques, seen what's wrong, and he is capable of fixing it - perhaps.Jonathan said:
Both will end. The cast will move on to other things. 16 years is an amazing run, but it's over.SeanT said:
The Grand Tour was weird. Some moments of genius, some long moments of boredom, too much money, not enough sharp editing. But there were hints it could be great again, at least for a handful of seasons.Jonathan said:Top Gear was dying before Clarkson left. The Grand Tour reminds me of when Morecambe and Wise went to ITV.
There is no such hope in Top Gear. It's now just a really really average-to-dull show about cars, which, of course, Top Gear was until Clarkson revolutionised it.
If I had to bet I'd say the Grand Tour is the more likely survivor, but what's certain is that the BBC has lost its cash cow. Ten zillion people across the world are not gonna watch that dreck with Le Blanc.
No one on or near Top Gear is a comic genius. It's dead.0 -
@ChrisMasonBBC: BREAKING: The Brexit Bill has cleared the Lords unamended allowing the Prime Minister to begin talks on a divorce deal for leaving the EU.0
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They should have stuck to doing one off specials. Clarkson clearly misses the BBC. I suspect he'll be back one day when the Amazon money is gone.SeanT said:
Maybe. That's what I've been thinking, too. But Clarkson is an authentic comic genius. He will have read the critiques, seen what's wrong, and he is capable of fixing it - perhaps.Jonathan said:
Both will end. The cast will move on to other things. 16 years is an amazing run, but it's over.SeanT said:
The Grand Tour was weird. Some moments of genius, some long moments of boredom, too much money, not enough sharp editing. But there were hints it could be great again, at least for a handful of seasons.Jonathan said:Top Gear was dying before Clarkson left. The Grand Tour reminds me of when Morecambe and Wise went to ITV.
There is no such hope in Top Gear. It's now just a really really average-to-dull show about cars, which, of course, Top Gear was until Clarkson revolutionised it.
If I had to bet I'd say the Grand Tour is the more likely survivor, but what's certain is that the BBC has lost its cash cow. Ten zillion people across the world are not gonna watch that dreck with Le Blanc.
No one on or near Top Gear is a comic genius. It's dead.0 -
Sky report from Coldstream showed virtual unanimity against the idea of a second referendum.
Very nostalgic for me as a young man in my early teens I used to canoe under the bridge shown on the report on my way to Berwick, ironically weaving in and out of Scotland0 -
When is royal assent officially given?0
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HOL now passed the act and on it's way to the Palace0
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Manuel Valls calling for people to vote for Macron in round 1 of the French election.0
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I posted that down thread.williamglenn said:Manuel Valls calling for people to vote for Macron in round 1 of the French election.
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Reported that it will be following the Queens breakfast tomorrowGallowgate said:When is royal assent officially given?
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Sky have actually gone to a place & spoken to people rather than quote 'sources'?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky report from Coldstream showed virtual unanimity against the idea of a second referendum.
Very nostalgic for me as a young man in my early teens I used to canoe under the bridge shown on the report on my way to Berwick, ironically weaving in and out of Scotland
Novel.0 -
Voight-Kampff?Alistair said:
You seem upset by all of this. Tell me about your mother.Cyan said:Janan Ganesh is right that Sturgeon's proposal was meant to be rejected, so that she could stamp her foot and whip up the north-of-the-border nationalism that is based precisely on foot-stamping. But other than that, what is he talking about?
"Mrs May cannot sign off on hard exit terms without risking the loss of Scotland, three-fifths of whose electorate voted for the EU."
So what? What proportion of the Scottish electorate has switched to being pro-independence because if Scotland becomes independent there's a possibility that it might be able to join the EU? 1%? And what proportion will keep to that view once it's pointed out to them that they'll have to install customs posts at the border and check passports, and let in all the Bulgarians and Romanians who want to come, even if they just want to get to England, because that's what the EU will tell them? 0.2%?
"Such terms would not just threaten material harm to a small, trading economy, they would communicate England’s hauteur to the smaller nation."
However much the xenophobic SNP say otherwise, Theresa May does not represent England when she talks with Nicola Sturgeon. May represents Scotland as much as she represents England. And much as it sticks in my craw to say so, May deserves praise for telling Sturgeon to stick her timetable up her sporran.0 -
Yes and it is a place full of happy childhood memories - but not a good report for Nicola.Theuniondivvie said:
Sky have actually gone to a place & spoken to people rather than quote 'sources'?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky report from Coldstream showed virtual unanimity against the idea of a second referendum.
Very nostalgic for me as a young man in my early teens I used to canoe under the bridge shown on the report on my way to Berwick, ironically weaving in and out of Scotland
Novel.
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Mrs May has a tiny majority.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.0 -
The SNP slogan is Take Back ControlSeanT said:They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.
https://twitter.com/brianspanner1/status/7464883165104824330 -
Not sure that UKIP really have much say in this unless one D Carswell has that much clout in Parliament....TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
I think what Sean has proposed is actually quite possible to happen, it would seem a more reasonable timetable than one that Nicola has come up with.
I don't think that the SNP could keep Scotland in the EU before Brexit takes affect if Scotland votes YES in 2018 or 2019 therefore it make it more sensible to have the vote afterwards.0 -
Boris is a complete fucking wanker. If anything would encourage an independent Scotland, it's him. Maybe they can paint him on the side of a bus.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.0 -
The PM should be most grateful to Gina Miller. The passing of the A50 bill puts her in a much stronger position than if she'd triggered it without parliamentary approval.0
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The only surprising thing is that people are surprised by this. It was clear that Brexit would revive Scottish Independence. The tragedy is that our politics is now in a far weaker state. As we saw in Brexit, economic arguments don't work.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.0 -
No matter - the whips have been fantastic even persuading the rebels to abstain tonight. Not one voted against their GovernmentTheScreamingEagles said:
Mrs May has a tiny majority.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.0 -
Assume you are being sarcastic. Valls and Macron both served in the French cabinet together, he obviously hates Hamon who beat him in the PS primary and he is hardly going to endorse Le Pen or Fillon.TheScreamingEagles said:This is HUUUUUGGE
EXCLUSIF. Présidentielle : Valls va appeler à soutenir Macron dès le premier tour
http://www.leparisien.fr/elections/presidentielle/presidentielle-l-appel-de-valls-a-soutenir-macron-des-le-premier-tour-13-03-2017-6759426.php
2 new polls today IFOP has Le Pen ahead on 26.5% to 25% for Macron, Opinion Way Le Pen ahead on 27% to 25% for Macron
http://dataviz.ifop.com:8080/IFOP_ROLLING/IFOP_13-03-2017.pdf
http://presicote.factoviz.com/index/more/id/qoo_lew_10 -
Scotland can't be INDEPENDENT if she wears an pro-EU gimp suitMonksfield said:
Boris is a complete fucking wanker. If anything would encourage an independent Scotland, it's him. Maybe they can paint him on the side of a bus.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.
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There will be Conservatives who are thinking that getting rid of 50+ leftist Scottish MPs has its advantages.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.
0 -
I think not.....Sunil_Prasannan said:
I like your Sinn Fein flag, BevBeverley_C said:Sean_F said:
Compared to Sinn Fein and the DUP the Tories are bleeding hearts.Alanbrooke said:
Mrs C is from Northern Ireland :-)Sean_F said:
You should try living in a country where the ruling party really is full of extremists. You might come to appreciate your own country a bit more.Beverley_C said:
Pre 2010 we had Gordon running up massive debt and a labour govt that was riven by factionalism. They were wrecking the countrySean_F said:
I don't understand what your objection to a Conservative government is. You wanted it, pre-2010, and now you've got it. Theresa May and her Cabinet aren't by any means extremists.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.
Read what I wrote more carefully. I did not say that May was an extremist but that her party had a sizeable number of them. They are wrecking the country
Here - treat yourselfhttp://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/sinn-fein-flag/ 0 -
I am not sure the MBE is in the post just yet.steve_garner said:The PM should be most grateful to Gina Miller. The passing of the A50 bill puts her in a much stronger position than if she'd triggered it without parliamentary approval.
0 -
Brexit was won by the hangers and floggers and that's officialchestnut said:
Yes have the classic losing demographic.Saltire said:
This is true but since Yes had majority in the under 35s and also the C2DEs I would say that they have a bigger task than the No camp and anecdotally I know of many more Yes than No voters who had never voted before.kle4 said:
There is also the challenge of No for the same (some of them at any rate will have been No supporters), and also ensuring in general No voters are as enthused to come out as last time.Saltire said:Also when it comes to changes in the vote from last time it is hard to imagine that the turnout will be any higher than the 85% that was achieved last time and indeed it might well be lower next time. It is one of the big challenges that face the YES camp is to get normal non-voters to turnout again.
This might well be a war of attrition regarding enthusiasm since 2 years is a long way off!
Brexit was won by the homeowning 50 plussers and lost by the can't-be-arsed, twenty-something renters who would rather play Grand Theft Auto.
And that is for the best because the 20 something renters will grow to be 50 plus homeowners one day but the reverse will never happen.0 -
Yes - Ironicsteve_garner said:The PM should be most grateful to Gina Miller. The passing of the A50 bill puts her in a much stronger position than if she'd triggered it without parliamentary approval.
0 -
Boris will just have to suck it up, particularly since he can't plead ignorance or innocence.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.
'Boris Johnson predicted Brexit vote could break-up UK
BORIS Johnson warned an English-only vote for Brexit could lead to Scottish independence and the break-up of the Union, a previously secret newspaper column has revealed.
Written in February, two days before he backed the Leave side, the unpublished article also said remaining in the EU would be a “boon for the world and for Europe”.'
http://tinyurl.com/zeys2jt0 -
I thought your Avatar might have been an Indian flag, but rotated 90 degreesBeverley_C said:
I think not.....Sunil_Prasannan said:
I like your Sinn Fein flag, BevBeverley_C said:Sean_F said:
Compared to Sinn Fein and the DUP the Tories are bleeding hearts.Alanbrooke said:
Mrs C is from Northern Ireland :-)Sean_F said:
You should try living in a country where the ruling party really is full of extremists. You might come to appreciate your own country a bit more.Beverley_C said:
Pre 2010 we had Gordon running up massive debt and a labour govt that was riven by factionalism. They were wrecking the countrySean_F said:
I don't understand what your objection to a Conservative government is. You wanted it, pre-2010, and now you've got it. Theresa May and her Cabinet aren't by any means extremists.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.
Read what I wrote more carefully. I did not say that May was an extremist but that her party had a sizeable number of them. They are wrecking the country
Here - treat yourselfhttp://www.sinnfeinbookshop.com/sinn-fein-flag/ 0 -
Well if he wants to interfere in our referendums I hope he doesn't complain when Brits back the Californian secessionist movementwilliamglenn said:The SNP getting some support from Dean the Scream.
https://twitter.com/govhowarddean/status/8413482910067220490 -
True Brexiteers will accept any deal that gets us out. Even a deal that is the same as being in. This is like the wisdom of Solomon, we don't want our baby killed, let someone else be in charge if need be
If the voters want hard Brexit, they will get it eventually. Our relationship w the EU will change w each parliament. The big worry is still that the establishment will find a way to keep us in. Look how many different tricks they've thrown at us! I feel like the bloke in midnight express who keeps thinking he's gonna get released0 -
Scotland is going to need a hell of a lot of pork thrown its way in order to avoid independence. It'll have to be done very publicly too.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.
Little England will go nuts.
"Your £350m a week? Yeah, sorry we're giving it to scotland instead"
Needs must old chap0 -
Film idea: tour the external EU borders, the hard ones where both the single market and the customs union stop. Morocco-Ceuta; Russia-Finland; Kaliningrad-Lithuania; Belarus-Poland; Bosnia-Croatia. Interview residents, lorry drivers, etc.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes and it is a place full of happy childhood memories - but not a good report for Nicola.Theuniondivvie said:
Sky have actually gone to a place & spoken to people rather than quote 'sources'?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky report from Coldstream showed virtual unanimity against the idea of a second referendum.
Very nostalgic for me as a young man in my early teens I used to canoe under the bridge shown on the report on my way to Berwick, ironically weaving in and out of Scotland
Novel.
0 -
Mrs May has signed up to hard Brexit, that's what we're getting.SeanT said:
But there's a big majority for Soft Brexit in the Commons.TheScreamingEagles said:
Mrs May has a tiny majority.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.
And remember we might want a soft Brexit, but we might get a hard Brexit from the rest of the EU.0 -
Yes, well unlike the SNP they do not have a majority at Stormont so toughPong said:http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-nireland-idUKKBN16K28E
"Northern Ireland's largest Irish nationalist party Sinn Fein on Monday said it wanted a referendum on splitting from the United Kingdom "as soon as possible", hours after Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon demanded a new independence vote."0 -
It's aggressive and uncompromising, whilst Westminster is weak.SeanT said:
I'm not surprised by it. This was always the big risk of Brexit (and I said so on here). I am surprised by Sturgeon's timing. I genuinely can't work out if it's clever or stupid.Jonathan said:
The only surprising thing is that people are surprised by this. It was clear that Brexit would revive Scottish Independence. The tragedy is that our politics is now in a far weaker state. As we saw in Brexit, economic arguments don't work.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.0 -
Given how well the timeline has worked out with the self imposed deadline of the end of March, I'd almost be inclined to say it was planned around assuming the government would lose that case. But strengthening the position is one reason even if it was not legally required it seemed like it would have been a good idea.steve_garner said:The PM should be most grateful to Gina Miller. The passing of the A50 bill puts her in a much stronger position than if she'd triggered it without parliamentary approval.
0 -
That's good.Roger said:
Brexit was won by the hangers and floggers and that's officialchestnut said:
Yes have the classic losing demographic.Saltire said:
This is true but since Yes had majority in the under 35s and also the C2DEs I would say that they have a bigger task than the No camp and anecdotally I know of many more Yes than No voters who had never voted before.kle4 said:
There is also the challenge of No for the same (some of them at any rate will have been No supporters), and also ensuring in general No voters are as enthused to come out as last time.Saltire said:Also when it comes to changes in the vote from last time it is hard to imagine that the turnout will be any higher than the 85% that was achieved last time and indeed it might well be lower next time. It is one of the big challenges that face the YES camp is to get normal non-voters to turnout again.
This might well be a war of attrition regarding enthusiasm since 2 years is a long way off!
Brexit was won by the homeowning 50 plussers and lost by the can't-be-arsed, twenty-something renters who would rather play Grand Theft Auto.
And that is for the best because the 20 something renters will grow to be 50 plus homeowners one day but the reverse will never happen.0 -
Constitutional clarity is never a bad thing.steve_garner said:The PM should be most grateful to Gina Miller. The passing of the A50 bill puts her in a much stronger position than if she'd triggered it without parliamentary approval.
0 -
The SNP don't have a majority at Holyrood. Take another look!HYUFD said:
Yes, well unlike the SNP they do not have a majority at Stormont so toughPong said:http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-nireland-idUKKBN16K28E
"Northern Ireland's largest Irish nationalist party Sinn Fein on Monday said it wanted a referendum on splitting from the United Kingdom "as soon as possible", hours after Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon demanded a new independence vote."0 -
Alanbrooke said:
Not at all, but remainers seem to have sunk into a narrative that
everything about Brexit is bad
anything bad that happens is a result of Brexit
Emotive? Moi???Alanbrooke said:usually expressed in emotive language
I feel like I am watching a trainee magician starting his chainsaw and telling his beautiful assistant not to worry, he is fairly sure that he has figured out how the trick is done. Now, stand here and we'll give it a go....
0 -
Monkey tennis!Cyan said:
Film idea: tour the external EU borders, the hard ones where both the single market and the customs union stop. Morocco-Ceuta; Russia-Finland; Kaliningrad-Lithuania; Belarus-Poland; Bosnia-Croatia. Interview residents, lorry drivers, etc.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes and it is a place full of happy childhood memories - but not a good report for Nicola.Theuniondivvie said:
Sky have actually gone to a place & spoken to people rather than quote 'sources'?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky report from Coldstream showed virtual unanimity against the idea of a second referendum.
Very nostalgic for me as a young man in my early teens I used to canoe under the bridge shown on the report on my way to Berwick, ironically weaving in and out of Scotland
Novel.0 -
They've not been inclined to push for that to date. The government has done a good job in presenting only its version as the only true Brexit.SeanT said:
But there's a big majority for Soft Brexit in the Commons.TheScreamingEagles said:
Mrs May has a tiny majority.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.0 -
Has Gina Miller given permission for a Scottish IndyRef yet ?steve_garner said:The PM should be most grateful to Gina Miller. The passing of the A50 bill puts her in a much stronger position than if she'd triggered it without parliamentary approval.
0 -
Mrs May has actually never said she backed hard of soft Brexit, what she backs is a job offer requirement on immigration and bilateral trade agreements and probably some limited EU budget contributions, that is not the soft Brexit Remainers want but nor is it the hard Brexit UKIP want eitherTheScreamingEagles said:
Mrs May has signed up to hard Brexit, that's what we're getting.SeanT said:
But there's a big majority for Soft Brexit in the Commons.TheScreamingEagles said:
Mrs May has a tiny majority.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.
And remember we might want a soft Brexit, but we might get a hard Brexit from the rest of the EU.0 -
And Boris and Michael have tiny .....TheScreamingEagles said:Mrs May has a tiny majority.
0 -
More likely May promises devolution to Holyrood of many of the powers recovered from Brussels.Pong said:
Scotland is going to need a hell of a lot of pork thrown its way in order to avoid independence. It'll have to be done very publicly too.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.
Little England will go nuts.
"Your £350m a week? Yeah, sorry we're giving it to scotland instead"
Needs must old chap
Now would Scotland want to give control of farming and fisheries back to Brussels upon Independence.
0 -
I expect TM to play with her - promise she will not stop a referendum but will not agree prior to Brexit. By that time the wording of the referendum will need to be agreed with the electoral commission, the legislation will need to be laid in Parliament and then go on to the Lords.SeanT said:
This is hardly surprising. Polls show that a fairly small minority of Scots want a vote pre-Brexit. 70% want to wait. In the Borders it will be 95%.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Yes and it is a place full of happy childhood memories - but not a good report for Nicola.Theuniondivvie said:
Sky have actually gone to a place & spoken to people rather than quote 'sources'?Big_G_NorthWales said:Sky report from Coldstream showed virtual unanimity against the idea of a second referendum.
Very nostalgic for me as a young man in my early teens I used to canoe under the bridge shown on the report on my way to Berwick, ironically weaving in and out of Scotland
Novel.
This is the risk Sturgeon is taking (against her own instincts, if Sky are correct). The timing is clearly wrong. She is relying on TMay refusing in a helpful way.
The ability to be seen to consent by TM but allow the process to delay the actual vote till late 2019 or later which will be after we have left the EU will create far more problems for Nicola than TM.
0 -
They do with the Greens and the Greens back independence, that is a completely different prospect to Stormont where neither SF nor SF+SDLP have a majority or indeed Cardiff where PC are not only not the largest party but have no allies for independence eitherCyan said:
The SNP don't have a majority at Holyrood. Take another look!HYUFD said:
Yes, well unlike the SNP they do not have a majority at Stormont so toughPong said:http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-nireland-idUKKBN16K28E
"Northern Ireland's largest Irish nationalist party Sinn Fein on Monday said it wanted a referendum on splitting from the United Kingdom "as soon as possible", hours after Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon demanded a new independence vote."0 -
Given the number of times you post this perhaps you can point to a quote where she said it?HYUFD said:what she backs is a job offer requirement on immigration
0 -
Now, now , TSE, Brexit is going to be red, white and blue, and involve unicorns, fairies and lashings of ginger beer at Hobbiton, whilst we all watch Gandalf cycling across the village green to reminisce with his mates about how they defended blighty against the hun back in 41.TheScreamingEagles said:
Mrs May has signed up to hard Brexit, that's what we're getting.SeanT said:
But there's a big majority for Soft Brexit in the Commons.TheScreamingEagles said:
Mrs May has a tiny majority.SeanT said:
They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove and Johnson yes, I'm thinking of your hardcore Leavers.SeanT said:
UKIP no, Tory Brexiteers yes. Remember people like Gove and Johnson are serious unionists.TheScreamingEagles said:
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.
Yes yes, but also true.
Try selling that to the likes of Andrew Rossindell, Philip Holloborne, Peter Bone et al.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.
And remember we might want a soft Brexit, but we might get a hard Brexit from the rest of the EU.
Any suggestion that our negotiating position is desperately weak will be stamped on by Big Mother.
0 -
Somewhere between the four thousandth and five thousandth time of your posting that link, it might perhaps be funny.Scott_P said:
The SNP slogan is Take Back ControlSeanT said:They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.
https://twitter.com/brianspanner1/status/746488316510482433
But probably for ironic reasons.
0 -
0
-
So is that why you have an obsession with Hartlepool - for hanging a monkey.Roger said:
Brexit was won by the hangers and floggers and that's officialchestnut said:
Yes have the classic losing demographic.Saltire said:
This is true but since Yes had majority in the under 35s and also the C2DEs I would say that they have a bigger task than the No camp and anecdotally I know of many more Yes than No voters who had never voted before.kle4 said:
There is also the challenge of No for the same (some of them at any rate will have been No supporters), and also ensuring in general No voters are as enthused to come out as last time.Saltire said:Also when it comes to changes in the vote from last time it is hard to imagine that the turnout will be any higher than the 85% that was achieved last time and indeed it might well be lower next time. It is one of the big challenges that face the YES camp is to get normal non-voters to turnout again.
This might well be a war of attrition regarding enthusiasm since 2 years is a long way off!
Brexit was won by the homeowning 50 plussers and lost by the can't-be-arsed, twenty-something renters who would rather play Grand Theft Auto.
And that is for the best because the 20 something renters will grow to be 50 plus homeowners one day but the reverse will never happen.0 -
The idea that 'soft Brexit' will appease the nationalists is foolish. They want one thing and one thing only.
So, stop appeasing them. The Scots that value the UK need to get together and stick it to them.0 -
What about the big swirly flower the Indian flag has? You are not trying to imply it is a type of shoe are you?Sunil_Prasannan said:I thought your Avatar might have been an Indian flag, but rotated 90 degrees
0 -
-
Talking of dead bbc programmes... Newsnight.
I remember when the government felt compelled to put up somebody every night to defend their position, now nobody of any importance is a guest. (Government or opposition).0 -
It has already been put to a Cabinet sub committee by Amber Rudd, EU workers will get a visa provided they have a skilled job to go to in the UK. Tourists and students would still have free access post Brexit. That is the basis of the immigration deal the UK government will offer the EU in return for a trade deal of some formwilliamglenn said:
Given the number of times you post this perhaps you can point to a quote where she said it?HYUFD said:what she backs is a job offer requirement on immigration
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3839154/EU-workers-visa-skilled-job.html0 -
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It's not a flower, but a 24-spoked wheel:Beverley_C said:
What about the big swirly flower the Indian flag has? You are not trying to imply it is a type of shoe are you?Sunil_Prasannan said:I thought your Avatar might have been an Indian flag, but rotated 90 degrees
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashoka_Chakra
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Is picking broccoli in the fens a skilled job? Or egg packing?HYUFD said:
It has already been put to a Cabinet sub committee by Amber Rudd, EU workers will get a visa provided they have a skilled job to go to in the UK. Tourists and students would still have free access post Brexit. That is the basis of the immigration deal the UK government will offer the EU in return for a trade deal of some formwilliamglenn said:
Given the number of times you post this perhaps you can point to a quote where she said it?HYUFD said:what she backs is a job offer requirement on immigration
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3839154/EU-workers-visa-skilled-job.html0 -
Haven't you heard, facts are irrelevant these days.SeanT said:
Dominic Cummings explained that photo in one of his brilliant essays. Apparently BoJo and Gove and the rest were ecstatic at the victory, and walked into Brexit HQ at 8am drinking Pol Roger from the bottle and high-fiving everyone.MarqueeMark said:
Somewhere between the four thousandth and five thousandth time of your posting that link, it might perhaps be funny.Scott_P said:
The SNP slogan is Take Back ControlSeanT said:They are a tiny minority. Bojo and Gove will be horrified by the idea of Joxit.
Boris was particularly emotional during indyref1, and wrote some great unionist essays. Gove is a Scot, of course.
There will be furrowed brows in Tory Brexit Central tonight.
https://twitter.com/brianspanner1/status/746488316510482433
But probably for ironic reasons.
But by the time it came to that press conference Cameron had resigned and some felt genuinely sad and others felt they has to fake solemnity and grief, or it would be unseemly.
Hence their sober, even glum expressions.0 -
Well we can get some of the Leavers to get off their backsides and do thoseMonksfield said:
Is picking broccoli in the fens a skilled job? Or egg packing?HYUFD said:
It has already been put to a Cabinet sub committee by Amber Rudd, EU workers will get a visa provided they have a skilled job to go to in the UK. Tourists and students would still have free access post Brexit. That is the basis of the immigration deal the UK government will offer the EU in return for a trade deal of some formwilliamglenn said:
Given the number of times you post this perhaps you can point to a quote where she said it?HYUFD said:what she backs is a job offer requirement on immigration
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3839154/EU-workers-visa-skilled-job.html0 -
Lord Mandelson looking crest-fallen on Newsnight.
Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving.0 -
Cameron having two lumps of sugar in his tea rather than one would have also been sufficient grounds.SeanT said:
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Metaphor for newsnight...A has been.MarqueeMark said:Lord Mandelson looking crest-fallen on Newsnight.
Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving.
Coming after the big guest....Nicola sturgeons biographer to tell us about sindy. I am presuming her hairdresser was busy.0 -
It's all we can afford "post Brexit"...SeanT said:WTF is that? That's not a "spread". It's tragic.
I would literally puke in the living face of some hotelier who tried to pass that off at an opening night. I would horizontally vomit into their eyes, pre-emptively, until they went blind.0 -
Out of curiosity what meltdowns have you undergone in the face of a bad restaurant or hotel experience ?SeanT said:
WTF is that? That's not a "spread". It's tragic.Scott_P said:
I would literally puke in the living face of some hotelier who tried to pass that off at an opening night. I would horizontally vomit into their eyes, pre-emptively, until they went blind.
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From the Scottish Greens' manifesto:HYUFD said:
They do with the Greens and the Greens back independence, that is a completely different prospect to Stormont where neither SF nor SF+SDLP have a majority or indeed Cardiff where PC are not only not the largest party but have no allies for independence eitherCyan said:
The SNP don't have a majority at Holyrood. Take another look!HYUFD said:
Yes, well unlike the SNP they do not have a majority at Stormont so toughPong said:http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-nireland-idUKKBN16K28E
"Northern Ireland's largest Irish nationalist party Sinn Fein on Monday said it wanted a referendum on splitting from the United Kingdom "as soon as possible", hours after Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon demanded a new independence vote."
"In assessing public appetite for a second referendum we will respect new kinds of citizen-led initiatives - for example, a call for a referendum signed by up to 1 million people on the electoral register."0 -
So if we Brexit and Scotland leave, I wonder whether Leavers here will see that as a good result. I imagine many will love the idea of a Balkan Britain.0
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Farmers need people who are actually going to get out of bed you know...HYUFD said:
Well we can get some of the Leavers to get off their backsides and do thoseMonksfield said:
Is picking broccoli in the fens a skilled job? Or egg packing?HYUFD said:
It has already been put to a Cabinet sub committee by Amber Rudd, EU workers will get a visa provided they have a skilled job to go to in the UK. Tourists and students would still have free access post Brexit. That is the basis of the immigration deal the UK government will offer the EU in return for a trade deal of some formwilliamglenn said:
Given the number of times you post this perhaps you can point to a quote where she said it?HYUFD said:what she backs is a job offer requirement on immigration
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3839154/EU-workers-visa-skilled-job.html0 -
I think they've misinterpreted the PB/Polling Matters poll.Theuniondivvie said:
They've taken the Scottish sub-sample from the GB wide poll.
I've dropped Adam from Opinium a message to confirm that they haven't done any Scotland only Indyref polling.0
