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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As we edge towards the enactment of the A50 Bill Nicola has just made Theresa’s task harder

TMay’s reaction to Sturgeon’s InyRef2 announcement was that the Scottish FM and SNP leader was “playing politics” – a term I generally conclude to mean that what’s been said has been highly effective.

Read the full story here

DavidL

First?

MarqueeMark

Or - playing politics means the other person looks like an opportunistic little shit.

MarqueeMark

Can we please now just get into the post-Article 50 phase of politics? There's serious work to be done.

Bromptonaut

Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.

You won. You won it all. What's up?

DavidL

MarqueeMark said:

Can we please now just get into the post-Article 50 phase of politics? There's serious work to be done.

Agreed. I hope there is no further delays in serving the article 50 notice.

ThomasNashe

MarqueeMark said:

Or - playing politics means the other person looks like an opportunistic little shit.

The accusation 'playing politics' always seems to me to have an air of desperation about it. They're politicians: politics is what they do ...

HYUFD

The UK has a population of 65 million, Scotland has a population of 5 million, although losing Scotland would not be something I want, going from 65 to 60 million is hardly creating 'a much smaller UK'. Indeed given the EU has a population of 500 million losing 60 million when the UK goes will make the EU smaller as a percentage than the UK will be were Scotland to go

MarqueeMark

Bromptonaut said:

Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.

You won. You won it all. What's up?

When we've served Article 50, we'll party like it's 1999.

MikeSmithson

MarqueeMark said:

Or - playing politics means the other person looks like an opportunistic little shit.

It means they've put you in a pickle which is what Nicoal has done. Why the disparaging language? This is politics about real issues that will impact on millions of lives.

GIN1138

Off Topic:

Happy birthday to Sandy.

On Topic:

Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave. Not a sustainable situation in which a country can thrive.

Alanbrooke

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

how ?

May can quite happily say we had a referendum to last a generation

There is no appetite for Indyref2 and if the SNP want one they can resign and call an election

MarqueeMark

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.

CD13

Mr Bromptonaut,

Gentlemen never gloat. Nor do Ladies

Alanbrooke

MarqueeMark said:

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.

correct

tell them to jock off

no reason why the rest of us have to put up with their shit, they dont even speak for the majority of Scots

Big_G_NorthWales

Bromptonaut said:

Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.

You won. You won it all. What's up?

As a remain voter I am delighted the will of the people has been fulfilled tonight.

The process can now begin and lets start being positive and getting behind the PM.

The remain and leave sides need to stop fighting the referendum. Tonight ended that

GeoffM

Bromptonaut said:

Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.

You won. You won it all. What's up?

The next bottle of champagne isn't being opened until A50 is actually invoked.

Then its Party Time again!

MarqueeMark

MikeSmithson said:

MarqueeMark said:

Or - playing politics means the other person looks like an opportunistic little shit.

It means they've put you in a pickle which is what Nicoal has done. Why the disparaging language? This is politics about real issues that will impact on millions of lives.

It's no more of a pickle than if Remain had won the Referendum. The SNP were always going to go for IndyRef2 - it's just the reasons would have had to be more creative.

The SNP can't bring down the Govt. They are a bunch of impotents, waving what passes for their willies.

RoyalBlue

Bromptonaut said:

Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.

You won. You won it all. What's up?

I'm delighted. Would you like me to do a dance?

Bromptonaut

CD13 said:

Mr Bromptonaut,

Gentlemen never gloat. Nor do Ladies

I'm not gloating. What do I have to gloat about?

Monksfield

Well, it looks like we're going to get the Brexit we deserve. I suspect it'll be brown rather than red, white and blue.

And all that moron Boris is on about is getting a new yacht for Madge.

Hey ho, I will set out my stall here by saying I'll be touting for Sindy2. Bring it on. Take back control Scotland.

chestnut

Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?

They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.

The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.

It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.

HYUFD

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

She will go for what she was always intending to ie a job offer requirement, bilateral agreements and some limited continuing EU budget contributions, if even that is not enough for the Scots I expect most English and Welsh voters will even pack their bags for them on their way out!

SimonStClare

PB Brain Trust - The Lord’s amendments defeated in the HOC, so what happens now, do they go back to the Lords for further revision, or is the PM able to activate A50 as things stand?

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/841372828893081600

Monksfield

Alanbrooke said:

MarqueeMark said:

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.

correct

tell them to jock off

no reason why the rest of us have to put up with their shit, they dont even speak for the majority of Scots

Irony deficit alert, no?

TOPPING

SeanT said:

SouthamObserver said:

The House of Commons has just voted to deny the British people any further say over Brexit.

I'm genuinely and literally unsure I have the energy for this any more. Brexit. Joxit. Fuxit. Indyref. TRUMP.

There's just been too much politics. I'm tired of arguing. It's gonna be the same Brexit arguments for the next two years, and exactly the same indyref arguments for the next three/four years.

As FF43 says, will anyone change their minds? In Scotland? In the UK?

If there is one thing that would make me regret my Brexit vote it is the arse-aching, scrotum-numbing tedium of it all. And the waste of time and energy.

I am close to taking a vow of silence. I have books to write, daughters to raise, money to make, women to chase, fruitlessly or otherwise. I may retreat to the personal. Enuff.

And the great news for you is that you can afford not to give a fuck. Lucky you.

Alanbrooke

Monksfield said:

Alanbrooke said:

MarqueeMark said:

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.

correct

tell them to jock off

no reason why the rest of us have to put up with their shit, they dont even speak for the majority of Scots

Irony deficit alert, no?

no

Carnyx

Alanbrooke said:

MarqueeMark said:

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.

correct

tell them to jock off

no reason why the rest of us have to put up with their shit, they dont even speak for the majority of Scots

But you are forgetting the also pro-indy Greens. SNP + Greens = a majority of Scottish seats in both Parliaments, and IIRC votes too.

Anyway, even if you are back to your usual form (!), I hope you and all the old regulars from the last time are well.

Bromptonaut

GIN1138 said:

Off Topic:

Happy birthday to Sandy.

On Topic:

Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.

Scott_P

SeanT said:

Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

Your vote enabled it.

You won, remember?

CD13

If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.

For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.

Alanbrooke

SeanT said:

MarqueeMark said:

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.

Well, she'll have to ignore them for now, but she can't deny them a vote forever. The very utmost she can do is make Sturgeon get an indyref2 mandate at the next Holyrood election.

Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

Why not go for a softer Brexit? It's what the majority of the country would prefer, Remainers and Liberal Leavers, and it is likely to keep the country together.

Hey ho. This is exhausting.

oh quit flapping

have you seen how bad scotlands finances are three years on from 2014 ?

the germans wont want them, the scots wont want to take the pain and the english are stupid enough to keep paying

chestnut

Will England ever see a vaguely left wing government again if the Scots go?

Bromptonaut

Scott_P said:

SeanT said:

Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

Your vote enabled it.

You won, remember?

Rejoice. Come on. Rejoice.

RoyalBlue

SeanT said:

MarqueeMark said:

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.

Well, she'll have to ignore them for now, but she can't deny them a vote forever. The very utmost she can do is make Sturgeon get an indyref2 mandate at the next Holyrood election.

Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

Why not go for a softer Brexit? It's what the majority of the country would prefer, Remainers and Liberal Leavers, and it is likely to keep the country together.

Hey ho. This is exhausting.

Freedom of movement must end. The EU will not let us have the single market without it, so we must leave that too.

Monksfield

Scott_P said:

SeanT said:

Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

Your vote enabled it.

You won, remember?

English arrogance is such a joy. Cake and eat it, all day, every day.

Scott_P

CD13 said:

If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.

For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.

It's fascinating how quickly the Brexiteers pivot from "the EU can't afford not to give us a deal" to "Scotland can't afford to leave us"

But it has NOTHING to do with English exceptionalism... No siree

TwistedFireStopper

It is pretty clear that Sturgeon is playing politics with announcing her SindyRef2 just before the commons vote on the Article 50 amendments. Indeed, Salmond has just said on Sky News that May has decided to "delay" triggering it until the end of the month because she has been put on the back foot by Sturgeon. I don't blame the SNP, actually. It's what they campaign for, and you have to play the cards you're dealt.
Maybe it is time for the end of the Union. It's only been​ in existence for 300 or so years, hasn't it? Barely a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things. Let it go.

Alanbrooke

Carnyx said:

Alanbrooke said:

MarqueeMark said:

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.

correct

tell them to jock off

no reason why the rest of us have to put up with their shit, they dont even speak for the majority of Scots

But you are forgetting the also pro-indy Greens. SNP + Greens = a majority of Scottish seats in both Parliaments, and IIRC votes too.

Anyway, even if you are back to your usual form (!), I hope you and all the old regulars from the last time are well.

Just tell em to wait

if they took three years the last time why hurry now

leave the EU and then let the Nats see what theyre facing

Darien squared

Alanbrooke

Bromptonaut said:

GIN1138 said:

Off Topic:

Happy birthday to Sandy.

On Topic:

Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.

so why did PSA close Ryton when we were in the EU ?

TwistedFireStopper

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/841372828893081600

He really is a useless wanker, isn't he?

RoyalBlue

Scott_P said:

CD13 said:

If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.

For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.

It's fascinating how quickly the Brexiteers pivot from "the EU can't afford not to give us a deal" to "Scotland can't afford to leave us"

But it has NOTHING to do with English exceptionalism... No siree

The UK is a net contributor to the EU. Scotland is a net recipient in the UK. Are figures not your strong point?

Carnyx

Alanbrooke said:

Carnyx said:

Alanbrooke said:

MarqueeMark said:

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.

correct

tell them to jock off

no reason why the rest of us have to put up with their shit, they dont even speak for the majority of Scots

But you are forgetting the also pro-indy Greens. SNP + Greens = a majority of Scottish seats in both Parliaments, and IIRC votes too.

Anyway, even if you are back to your usual form (!), I hope you and all the old regulars from the last time are well.

Just tell em to wait

if they took three years the last time why hurry now

leave the EU and then let the Nats see what theyre facing

Darien squared

Oh goody, that's Darien crossed off my Indy Bingo card for today!

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/petergrantmp/status/841363937878769665

HYUFD

TwistedFireStopper said:

It is pretty clear that Sturgeon is playing politics with announcing her SindyRef2 just before the commons vote on the Article 50 amendments. Indeed, Salmond has just said on Sky News that May has decided to "delay" triggering it until the end of the month because she has been put on the back foot by Sturgeon. I don't blame the SNP, actually. It's what they campaign for, and you have to play the cards you're dealt.
Maybe it is time for the end of the Union. It's only been​ in existence for 300 or so years, hasn't it? Barely a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things. Let it go.

The Scots have to vote to let it go first, which on present polling is by no means certain

GIN1138

Bromptonaut said:

GIN1138 said:

Off Topic:

Happy birthday to Sandy.

On Topic:

Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.

I didn't say it has "nothing" to do with Brexit.

I said Brexit will probably speed up to the process of Scotland leaving a bit... But it's been clear to me for a long time that Scotland was on a different path to England and Wales which is why I was intensely relaxed about the last Sindy Ref and at the time basically said that if the Scots want to leave then good luck to them.

That was my position then. That's my position now.

Alanbrooke

Scott_P said:

CD13 said:

If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.

For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.

It's fascinating how quickly the Brexiteers pivot from "the EU can't afford not to give us a deal" to "Scotland can't afford to leave us"

But it has NOTHING to do with English exceptionalism... No siree

all you have to do is paint £350 million on the side of a bus

get painting

CD13

Mr P,

"But it has NOTHING to do with English exceptionalism... No siree."


The British, the British, the British (including the Scots) are best. I wouldn't give tuppence for all of the rest.

HYUFD

chestnut said:

Will England ever see a vaguely left wing government again if the Scots go?

Attlee, Wilson and Blair all won majorities without the need for Scottish seats, so most probably

Alanbrooke

Monksfield said:

Scott_P said:

SeanT said:

Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

Your vote enabled it.

You won, remember?

English arrogance is such a joy. Cake and eat it, all day, every day.

The rest of us celts can get pretty pissed off with prima donna scots too

Carnyx

TwistedFireStopper said:

It is pretty clear that Sturgeon is playing politics with announcing her SindyRef2 just before the commons vote on the Article 50 amendments. Indeed, Salmond has just said on Sky News that May has decided to "delay" triggering it until the end of the month because she has been put on the back foot by Sturgeon. I don't blame the SNP, actually. It's what they campaign for, and you have to play the cards you're dealt.
Maybe it is time for the end of the Union. It's only been​ in existence for 300 or so years, hasn't it? Barely a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things. Let it go.

Indeed. Just consider it in the context of those wonderful fossils from Charnwood Forest, preferably with a decent port or single malt.

Bromptonaut

Alanbrooke said:

Bromptonaut said:

GIN1138 said:

Off Topic:

Happy birthday to Sandy.

On Topic:

Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.

so why did PSA close Ryton when we were in the EU ?

Which bit of "UK car production at 17 year high" don't you understand?

MarqueeMark

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/petergrantmp/status/841363937878769665

Parliament votes to enforce the decision of voters - because anything less isn't democracy.

FrancisUrquhart

MPs should have voted 'in secret' - Gina Miller

MonikerDiCanio

Stupid mistake by Sturgeon. Not a patch on Eck.

SimonStClare

TwistedFireStopper said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/841372828893081600

He really is a useless wanker, isn't he?

A rhetorical question if ever there was one.

Alanbrooke

Bromptonaut said:

Alanbrooke said:

Bromptonaut said:

GIN1138 said:

Off Topic:

Happy birthday to Sandy.

On Topic:

Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.

so why did PSA close Ryton when we were in the EU ?

Which bit of "UK car production at 17 year high" don't you understand?

since iVe worked in the car indusry for 20 years I suspect its you doesnt understand it

so once again why did Ryton close when we were in the EU ?

RobD

FrancisUrquhart said:

MPs should have voted 'in secret' - Gina Miller

LOL. Seriously?

Philip_Thompson

ThomasNashe said:

MarqueeMark said:

Or - playing politics means the other person looks like an opportunistic little shit.

The accusation 'playing politics' always seems to me to have an air of desperation about it. They're politicians: politics is what they do ...

Indeed it'd be like Mourinho complaining about the opposing team playing football.

FrancisUrquhart

RobD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

MPs should have voted 'in secret' - Gina Miller

LOL. Seriously?

Gina Miller, the lawyer who took the government to the Supreme Court to give MPs a vote on Brexit, has been interviewed on Radio 4's PM.

Ms Miller said there is "an awful lot of bullying" in Parliament, which meant MPs couldn't "do their job properly" and "vote with their conscience" on the Brexit bill. She said that MPs should have been allowed to vote in secret.

Ms Miller told Eddie Mair that she was disappointed that MPs "haven't asked enough questions" or sought the opinion of their constituents on "what kind of Brexit they want".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-39256795

Alanbrooke

RobD said:

FrancisUrquhart said:

MPs should have voted 'in secret' - Gina Miller

LOL. Seriously?

yup she was talking crap on R4 this afternoon

she wants open government with secret votes

Bromptonaut

Alanbrooke said:

Bromptonaut said:

Alanbrooke said:

Bromptonaut said:

GIN1138 said:

Off Topic:

Happy birthday to Sandy.

On Topic:

Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.

so why did PSA close Ryton when we were in the EU ?

Which bit of "UK car production at 17 year high" don't you understand?

since iVe worked in the car indusry for 20 years I suspect its you doesnt understand it

so once again why did Ryton close when we were in the EU ?

Why did Nissan and Toyota build state of the art plants in the U.K. while we were in the single market?

Stop trying to pretend your pathetic arguments make any kind of sense.

Alanbrooke

SeanT said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

Stupid mistake by Sturgeon. Not a patch on Eck.

According to Sky it is Eck & Co who bullied her into this, and she thinks the timing is wrong.

auspicious start

Artist

The people in Scotland aren't stupid, they can recognise that the timetable laid out by Sturgeon is ridiculous and it'd make Theresa May look like the sensible one if anything, if she rejected it. If Sturgeon doesn't have public support for her plans then she's screwed.

chestnut

HYUFD said:

chestnut said:

Will England ever see a vaguely left wing government again if the Scots go?

Attlee, Wilson and Blair all won majorities without the need for Scottish seats, so most probably

I'm not sure that Blair passes as left wing to be honest.

It's astonishing just how many utter cock ups can be traced back to that 1997 government.

On a positive note, I did notice earlier today that the UK government is on target this year for it's lowest deficit to GDP ratio since 2002 .

Floater

Calling William Glenn - you ok hun?

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/alexgallagher2/status/841364293954260992

Alanbrooke

Bromptonaut said:

Alanbrooke said:

Bromptonaut said:

Alanbrooke said:

Bromptonaut said:

GIN1138 said:

Off Topic:

Happy birthday to Sandy.

On Topic:

Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.

so why did PSA close Ryton when we were in the EU ?

Which bit of "UK car production at 17 year high" don't you understand?

since iVe worked in the car indusry for 20 years I suspect its you doesnt understand it

so once again why did Ryton close when we were in the EU ?

Why did Nissan and Toyota build state of the art plants in the U.K. while we were in the single market?

Stop trying to pretend your pathetic arguments make any kind of sense.

yeah youre still trying to avoid the question

Ill happily answer your supplementary question when you answer the first

once again why did PSA close Ryton when we were in the EU ?

HYUFD

SeanT said:

HYUFD said:

TwistedFireStopper said:

It is pretty clear that Sturgeon is playing politics with announcing her SindyRef2 just before the commons vote on the Article 50 amendments. Indeed, Salmond has just said on Sky News that May has decided to "delay" triggering it until the end of the month because she has been put on the back foot by Sturgeon. I don't blame the SNP, actually. It's what they campaign for, and you have to play the cards you're dealt.
Maybe it is time for the end of the Union. It's only been​ in existence for 300 or so years, hasn't it? Barely a blink of an eye in the grand scheme of things. Let it go.

The Scots have to vote to let it go first, which on present polling is by no means certain

Yes, it is possible the bookies are over-reacting. The polls are generally NO. Some quite strongly NO. Feelings are entrenched. The arguments will be exactly the same, currency, bank, etc.

What has changed is the EU (a general positive for Sturgeon) and the price of oil (a big negative).

Most Scots do NOT want a vote for indy pre Brexit. This is not a popular move.

Sturgeon has taken a very big gamble. I reckon the odds should be more like 2/1 YES, and 1/2 No. Not evens.

Yes, personally I think May is more cunning than is being made out. First post Brexit she knew she had to neutralise the UKIP threat so she had a clear majority behind her to trigger Article 50 so she made it look as if she is doing a very hard Brexit and the SNP took the bait and went straight for indyref2. In reality she will do what she was always going to do, ie a softer version of Brexit than first appears with a job offer requirement and some continued EU budget contributions which could be enough for Scots to vote to stay in the UK, just and kill off independence for a generation and Sturgeon's career while the fact she has already got most Leave voters on board and weakened UKIP means Farage and Nuttall and co have little room to exploit the softer Brexit terms she eventually does agree so she can also ensure she is re-elected at the next general election with an overall majority. Not impossible

chestnut

SeanT said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

Stupid mistake by Sturgeon. Not a patch on Eck.

According to Sky it is Eck & Co who bullied her into this, and she thinks the timing is wrong.

Support for indy is mainly men. Women are very much against.

And she's being bullied?

philiph

GIN1138 said:

Bromptonaut said:

GIN1138 said:

Off Topic:

Happy birthday to Sandy.

On Topic:

Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.

I didn't say it has "nothing" to do with Brexit.

I said Brexit will probably speed up to the process of Scotland leaving a bit... But it's been clear to me for a long time that Scotland was on a different path to England and Wales which is why I was intensely relaxed about the last Sindy Ref and at the time basically said that if the Scots want to leave then good luck to them.

That was my position then. That's my position now.

Scotland was on a different path because they believed they could be better off independent. That is better off financially, well oiled and splurging money as they wish. Don't be taken in by the faux altruistic socialist caring noises. As with all who see money, they want more for themselves.

ThomasNashe

MonikerDiCanio said:

Stupid mistake by Sturgeon. Not a patch on Eck.

Nonsense. She's been able to reach parts of the electorate he never could. And as far as posterity goes, she's likely to be credited with winning the referendum that her predecessor couldn't. She's by far the most able politician currently active in UK politics.

MonikerDiCanio

SeanT said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

Stupid mistake by Sturgeon. Not a patch on Eck.

According to Sky it is Eck & Co who bullied her into this, and she thinks the timing is wrong.

It's a disastrous error and they'll all blame each other for it but Sturgeon is the owner.

TheScreamingEagles

https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/841365466471895040

Floater

SeanT said:

MonikerDiCanio said:

Stupid mistake by Sturgeon. Not a patch on Eck.

According to Sky it is Eck & Co who bullied her into this, and she thinks the timing is wrong.

its utter bollox - the plan is hope that the British government says no to the referendum.

Cynical beyond measure and bad for all the UK - not that they care about that

williamglenn

https://twitter.com/alexsalmond/status/841369429485195265

GeoffM

chestnut said:

Will England ever see a vaguely left wing government again if the Scots go?

It will do in a way. The location of the centre ground will adjust.

Sunil_Prasannan

https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/746690302128300033

HYUFD

chestnut said:

HYUFD said:

chestnut said:

Will England ever see a vaguely left wing government again if the Scots go?

Attlee, Wilson and Blair all won majorities without the need for Scottish seats, so most probably

I'm not sure that Blair passes as left wing to be honest.

It's astonishing just how many utter cock ups can be traced back to that 1997 government.

On a positive note, I did notice earlier today that the UK government is on target this year for it's lowest deficit to GDP ratio since 2002 .

Any Labour leader would have won in 1997 and 2001 in England and Wales, they did not need Blair or Scotland

RoyalBlue

williamglenn said:

https://twitter.com/alexsalmond/status/841369429485195265

What a bore that man is. They can have a meaningful vote if Westminster permits.

AlastairMeeks

I think seems that we can add the union to the things that the Ben Tre Brexiters are happy to sacrifice in the pursuit of their hobbyhorse.

Floater

chestnut said:

Will England ever see a vaguely left wing government again if the Scots go?

A Brucey bonus (pun intended)

RobD

AlastairMeeks said:

I think seems that we can add the union to the things that the Ben Tre Brexiters are happy to sacrifice in the pursuit of their hobbyhorse.

I think I preferred the hugging to death one.

tlg86

AlastairMeeks said:

I think seems that we can add the union to the things that the Ben Tre Brexiters are happy to sacrifice in the pursuit of their hobbyhorse.

Sorry, but the Union was put at risk in 2014 - and us Brexiteers could do nothing about it.

Yorkcity

The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.

Floater

CD13 said:

If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.

For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.

How will the Spanish take Scotland leaving and then joining the EU?

Alanbrooke

SeanT said:

philiph said:

GIN1138 said:

Bromptonaut said:

GIN1138 said:

Off Topic:

Happy birthday to Sandy.

On Topic:

Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.

As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.

Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.

As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.

Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.

I didn't say it has "nothing" to do with Brexit.

I said Brexit will probably speed up to the process of Scotland leaving a bit... But it's been clear to me for a long time that Scotland was on a different path to England and Wales which is why I was intensely relaxed about the last Sindy Ref and at the time basically said that if the Scots want to leave then good luck to them.

That was my position then. That's my position now.

Scotland was on a different path because they believed they could be better off independent. That is better off financially, well oiled and splurging money as they wish. Don't be taken in by the faux altruistic socialist caring noises. As with all who see money, they want more for themselves.

The narrative that Scotland will be financially different to the UK, and oil rich like Norway has now gone for good. Most Scots voters will know that iScotland will actually be poorer, and in serious debt.

But will that bother the electors? This is also about emotion.

the fun thing atm is the way fracking is now putting a lower ceiling on oil prices. Scottish oil revenues will struggle to get back to where they were and the cost of decomissioning becomes greater each year.

We can look forward to the SNP explaining why this doesnt matter

logical_song

SeanT said:

MarqueeMark said:

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.

Well, she'll have to ignore them for now, but she can't deny them a vote forever. The very utmost she can do is make Sturgeon get an indyref2 mandate at the next Holyrood election.

Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

Why not go for a softer Brexit? It's what the majority of the country would prefer, Remainers and Liberal Leavers, and it is likely to keep the country together.

Hey ho. This is exhausting.

Theresa May could keep the UK together by going for a soft Brexit, but I doubt she will.

Floater

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/841372828893081600

LOL - utter joke

GIN1138

tlg86 said:

AlastairMeeks said:

I think seems that we can add the union to the things that the Ben Tre Brexiters are happy to sacrifice in the pursuit of their hobbyhorse.

Sorry, but the Union was put at risk in 2014 - and us Brexiteers could do nothing about it.

The Union has gradually been falling apart, stitch by stitch for 30 years.

HaroldO

Wee Eck's all over TV, just what he wanted.

I am investing in popcorn for the next two years, because this ref is going to get nuts in terms of language and rather quickly.

Scott_P

https://twitter.com/technicallyron/status/841380364476125184

Sunil_Prasannan

FrancisUrquhart said:

MPs should have voted 'in secret' - Gina Miller

Gina Miller elected by no one

Beverley_C

logical_song said:

SeanT said:

MarqueeMark said:

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.

Well, she'll have to ignore them for now, but she can't deny them a vote forever. The very utmost she can do is make Sturgeon get an indyref2 mandate at the next Holyrood election.

Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

Why not go for a softer Brexit? It's what the majority of the country would prefer, Remainers and Liberal Leavers, and it is likely to keep the country together.

Hey ho. This is exhausting.

Theresa May could keep the UK together by going for a soft Brexit, but I doubt she will.

There is no soft Brexit. You cannot be a little bit pregnant. We are IN or we are OUT

Alanbrooke

logical_song said:

SeanT said:

MarqueeMark said:

SeanT said:

Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.

She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.

Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.

Well, she'll have to ignore them for now, but she can't deny them a vote forever. The very utmost she can do is make Sturgeon get an indyref2 mandate at the next Holyrood election.

Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.

Why not go for a softer Brexit? It's what the majority of the country would prefer, Remainers and Liberal Leavers, and it is likely to keep the country together.

Hey ho. This is exhausting.

Theresa May could keep the UK together by going for a soft Brexit, but I doubt she will.

she could equally keep it together with a hard Brexit

neither option guarantees anything

isam

chestnut said:

Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?

They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.

The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.

It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.

It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexit

It'll be something else next week

Floater

Big_G_NorthWales said:

Bromptonaut said:

Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.

You won. You won it all. What's up?

As a remain voter I am delighted the will of the people has been fulfilled tonight.

The process can now begin and lets start being positive and getting behind the PM.

The remain and leave sides need to stop fighting the referendum. Tonight ended that

LOL - I agree with you - but rabid remainers on here will whine until judgement day

FrancisUrquhart

Floater said:

Scott_P said:

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/841372828893081600

LOL - utter joke

The rally, organised by the Corbyn-supporting Momentum group, was called to support an amendment to the Brexit bill that would have guaranteed the rights of EU citizens living in the UK. However, Corbyn failed to show after only around 100 people turned up to the event outside Parliament.

Chances of this motivated ground team a) being organized and b) slogging the pavements day in day out in 2020?...its ok though because they will retweet a lot of stuff to their echo chamber.

Scott_P

Brexit will be awesome. How can it fail with these folk in charge...

@aljwhite: Boris Johnson has quite literally just told the house of commons that a new royal yacht will help us attract trade deals

Sean_F

FrancisUrquhart said:

MPs should have voted 'in secret' - Gina Miller

That did amuse me.