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But the Commons only voted today to overturn the Lords amendments (with Corbyn voting against).Scott_P said:@MarcherLord1: Superb. Corbyn and McDonnell have voted the #Brexit bill through unamended and are now marching in protest against it.
The Commons did not vote on the "unamended bill" again - they didn't have to.0 -
It's the same reason there has been some real bitterness in the EU toward us - resentment of those who seek to leave that which they care about. It's human nature, and the hope is diplomats and negotiators can keep cooler heads in the event these things happen, and don't need to play to the home crowd too much.Bojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.0 -
Sorry - I do not want to live in the USASean_F said:
You should try living in a country where the ruling party really is full of extremists. You might come to appreciate your own country a bit more.Beverley_C said:
Pre 2010 we had Gordon running up massive debt and a labour govt that was riven by factionalism. They were wrecking the countrySean_F said:
I don't understand what your objection to a Conservative government is. You wanted it, pre-2010, and now you've got it. Theresa May and her Cabinet aren't by any means extremists.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.
Read what I wrote more carefully. I did not say that May was an extremist but that her party had a sizeable number of them. They are wrecking the country0 -
oh gawd must you parade your inferiority complex againMonksfield said:
Because the relationship has never been one of equals in English eyesBojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.0 -
Compared to Sinn Fein and the DUP the Tories are bleeding hearts.Alanbrooke said:
Mrs C is from Northern Ireland :-)Sean_F said:
You should try living in a country where the ruling party really is full of extremists. You might come to appreciate your own country a bit more.Beverley_C said:
Pre 2010 we had Gordon running up massive debt and a labour govt that was riven by factionalism. They were wrecking the countrySean_F said:
I don't understand what your objection to a Conservative government is. You wanted it, pre-2010, and now you've got it. Theresa May and her Cabinet aren't by any means extremists.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.
Read what I wrote more carefully. I did not say that May was an extremist but that her party had a sizeable number of them. They are wrecking the country0 -
Lords Division on Amendment 1 (EU Nationals).0
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Well, repetitive and gut churning at any rate.Gallowgate said:Brexit = Boring
Sindy = Boring0 -
yes I;m struggling with her argument tooSean_F said:
Compared to Sinn Fein and the DUP the Tories are bleeding hearts.Alanbrooke said:
Mrs C is from Northern Ireland :-)Sean_F said:
You should try living in a country where the ruling party really is full of extremists. You might come to appreciate your own country a bit more.Beverley_C said:
Pre 2010 we had Gordon running up massive debt and a labour govt that was riven by factionalism. They were wrecking the countrySean_F said:
I don't understand what your objection to a Conservative government is. You wanted it, pre-2010, and now you've got it. Theresa May and her Cabinet aren't by any means extremists.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.
Read what I wrote more carefully. I did not say that May was an extremist but that her party had a sizeable number of them. They are wrecking the country0 -
Chelsea 1 up against ten men Man Utd.
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We have the right sort of left wingers in the north east. None of your latte sipping hand wringers from my part of the country.HYUFD said:
Outer London skews the figures a bit more right, inner London is certainly leftwing outside of the most expensive bits and even those all voted Remain. Yet even on your chart the South, the East, the Midlands, the Northwest and Yorkshire were all more rightwing than London, London was more rightwing than the Northeast by less than 1% and the latter voted LeaveSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/600283502966345729HYUFD said:
Wales is certainly at least now more rightwing than LondonSean_F said:
Wales has been trending right since 1970, though (1987 and 1992 excepted). On current polling, the Conservatives would do better in Wales than the national government did in 1931.HYUFD said:
Wales has not voted Tory at any general election over Labour since universal suffrage I believe, Scotland voted Tory in the 1950sSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/598497117380939776HYUFD said:
Even Sweden has a few centre right governments and Scotland voted Tory in the 1950s, Wales is actually more consistent in voting for leftwing parties than Labour, even if the Tories do better there than Scotland now and it voted LeaveSean_F said:
Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week0 -
Sean_F said:
Compared to Sinn Fein and the DUP the Tories are bleeding hearts.Alanbrooke said:
Mrs C is from Northern Ireland :-)Sean_F said:
You should try living in a country where the ruling party really is full of extremists. You might come to appreciate your own country a bit more.Beverley_C said:
Pre 2010 we had Gordon running up massive debt and a labour govt that was riven by factionalism. They were wrecking the countrySean_F said:
I don't understand what your objection to a Conservative government is. You wanted it, pre-2010, and now you've got it. Theresa May and her Cabinet aren't by any means extremists.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.
Read what I wrote more carefully. I did not say that May was an extremist but that her party had a sizeable number of them. They are wrecking the country
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My heart agrees. As has been pointed out, by SeanT and others I think, Sturgeon may be playing a game of political "Go" that may at least soften BrExit.kle4 said:
Lots of people did. It would have come regardless eventually, we can only hope enough people believe in the UK union to fight for it again.Toms said:I believe I predicted a new ScExit referendum soon after the BrExit one.
In the recent words of Trump, things are complicated.0 -
you wipe the froth of a pint of warm bull's semen from your beards as you plan your next coal mineSandyRentool said:
We have the right sort of left wingers in the north east. None of your latte sipping hand wringers from my part of the country.HYUFD said:
Outer London skews the figures a bit more right, inner London is certainly leftwing outside of the most expensive bits and even those all voted Remain. Yet even on your chart the South, the East, the Midlands, the Northwest and Yorkshire were all more rightwing than London, London was more rightwing than the Northeast by less than 1% and the latter voted LeaveSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/600283502966345729HYUFD said:
Wales is certainly at least now more rightwing than LondonSean_F said:
Wales has been trending right since 1970, though (1987 and 1992 excepted). On current polling, the Conservatives would do better in Wales than the national government did in 1931.HYUFD said:
Wales has not voted Tory at any general election over Labour since universal suffrage I believe, Scotland voted Tory in the 1950sSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/598497117380939776HYUFD said:
Even Sweden has a few centre right governments and Scotland voted Tory in the 1950s, Wales is actually more consistent in voting for leftwing parties than Labour, even if the Tories do better there than Scotland now and it voted LeaveSean_F said:
Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week
and thats just the ladies :-)0 -
Seems pretty straightforward and reasonable. Rather shows the politicians who erupted in hysteria at the Lords sending the amendment to the Commons to be either idiots or grandstanding, or grandstanding idiots.FrancisUrquhart said:Labour’s Brexit spokeswoman Baroness Hayter tells the House that her party will not be supporting Lib Dems' attempt to insist on their amendment.
She says that the amendment was rejected by the elected house and adds that it is clear "the government is not for turning".0 -
Isn`t that amazing ! We have a Conservative-UKIP dictatorship in power, and they are opposed by the Quisling-Labour Party!FrancisUrquhart said:Labour’s Brexit spokeswoman Baroness Hayter tells the House that her party will not be supporting Lib Dems' attempt to insist on their amendment.
She says that the amendment was rejected by the elected house and adds that it is clear "the government is not for turning".0 -
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They don't vary a huge amount from Ashcroft but I like to use the Scottish Referendum Study as my baseline as it is a bit more rigorouschestnut said:
The datasets are interesting.Alistair said:
Or to put it another way 86% of No voters were happy to tell friends, family or colleagues how they voted vs 89% of Yes voters.chestnut said:
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/scotland-voted/Alistair said:Time to brush off Lord Ashrcroft's post referendum polling
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/20/scottish-independence-lord-ashcroft-poll
Key takeaways:
39% of Yes voters decided in the last month compared to 19% of No Voters. 63% of No Voters always knew - which translates to the 35% Hard core Unionists I've postulated on.
EU membership was an important issue for 1 in 6 No Voters.
47% of No voters identified risk of going it alone as the key issue of their No vote from the 3 options given.
"Just as the “silent No” voters produced a bigger margin for the Union than recent pre-referendum polls had anticipated, some said they would keep their decision to themselves. One in seven No voters said they would be reluctant to tell their friends, family or colleagues how they had voted."
It is folly to imagine that 'soft Brexit' will appease the nationalists.
Support for Yes up among under 35s and C2DEs in the four polls presently running (Yougov, Panelbase, Ipsos, BMG) but down among over 35s and among ABC1s. (using Ashcroft as a base).
http://www.scottishreferendumstudy.com/
http://centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/sites/default/files/Scottish Referendum Study 27 March 2015.pdf0 -
"They"? You, now, on PB, is the first time I've ever heard the phrase.Alistair said:
I believe they are calling it the Republican WealthCare Bill.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Sturgeon calling for the indyref now has a feeling of being rather rushed, it is by no means certain that she will be on the winning side and certainly it is along way from when the talk was of waiting until the opinion polls showed a constant lead for Yes before they would call for a 2nd referendum.
Personally I think that it is highly irresponsible of the SNP to hold a 2nd referendum just now. They will be asking the Scottish public to decide between a status quo that will very uncertain since we will have no practical experience of living in post-Brexit Britain and asked to compare that with an even less certain independent future with probably a completely unknown relationship with both rUK and also the EU.
It would be much better to wait until we had lived through Brexit for a few years and have a much better idea of how it has actually impacted on the country rather than having to guess. If Brexit is a disaster then I'm sure that Yes would win comfortably and if Brexit is a success then there is a reasonable chance that the SNP would not be in position to call the referendum in the first place.
Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.0 -
some bloke weve never heard of and who doesnt post hereScott_P said:
have you got any opinions of your own ?0 -
Indeed. Speaking personally, while I would be emotionally devastated by Scotland leaving the UK, it has seemed for a long time like it is going to happen at some point. Brexit looked like precipitating a confrontation about it, but not doing it would not have killed the issue either. If it would have, I would have voted differently.Toms said:
My heart agrees. As has been pointed out, by SeanT and others I think, Sturgeon may be playing a game of political "Go" that may at least soften BrExit.kle4 said:
Lots of people did. It would have come regardless eventually, we can only hope enough people believe in the UK union to fight for it again.Toms said:I believe I predicted a new ScExit referendum soon after the BrExit one.
In the recent words of Trump, things are complicated.
This does rather mean the Scots generally rather have anyone who thinks like me by the balls. I would be willing to accept a great many things to not have to go through another Sindyvote, or to ensure a No vote when it happens.0 -
Funnily enough, there are plans for a new coal mine- an open cast near the Northumberland coast. Not a universally popular proposal. For one thing, with all of the coal fired power stations shutting down or converting to wood, what do you do with the coal?Alanbrooke said:
you wipe the froth of a pint of warm bull's semen from your beards as you plan your next coal mineSandyRentool said:
We have the right sort of left wingers in the north east. None of your latte sipping hand wringers from my part of the country.HYUFD said:
Outer London skews the figures a bit more right, inner London is certainly leftwing outside of the most expensive bits and even those all voted Remain. Yet even on your chart the South, the East, the Midlands, the Northwest and Yorkshire were all more rightwing than London, London was more rightwing than the Northeast by less than 1% and the latter voted LeaveSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/600283502966345729HYUFD said:
Wales is certainly at least now more rightwing than LondonSean_F said:
Wales has been trending right since 1970, though (1987 and 1992 ernment did in 1931.HYUFD said:
Wales has not voted Tory at any general election over Labour since universal suffrage I believe, Scotland voted Tory in the 1950sSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/598497117380939776HYUFD said:
Even Sweden has a few centre right governments and Scotland voted Tory in the 1950s, Wales is actually more consistent in voting for leftwing parties than Labour, even if the Tories do better there than Scotland now and it voted LeaveSean_F said:
Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week
and thats just the ladies :-)0 -
Amendment 1 (EU nationals) defeated:
For - 135
Against - 274
Government win.0 -
https://twitter.com/hashtag/wealthcare?f=tweets&vertical=news&src=hashGeoffM said:
"They"? You, now, on PB, is the first time I've ever heard the phrase.Alistair said:
I believe they are calling it the Republican WealthCare Bill.TheScreamingEagles said:
You should probably get used to it.0 -
Well said.Saltire said:Sturgeon calling for the indyref now has a feeling of being rather rushed, it is by no means certain that she will be on the winning side and certainly it is along way from when the talk was of waiting until the opinion polls showed a constant lead for Yes before they would call for a 2nd referendum.
Personally I think that it is highly irresponsible of the SNP to hold a 2nd referendum just now. They will be asking the Scottish public to decide between a status quo that will very uncertain since we will have no practical experience of living in post-Brexit Britain and asked to compare that with an even less certain independent future with probably a completely unknown relationship with both rUK and also the EU.
It would be much better to wait until we had lived through Brexit for a few years and have a much better idea of how it has actually impacted on the country rather than having to guess. If Brexit is a disaster then I'm sure that Yes would win comfortably and if Brexit is a success then there is a reasonable chance that the SNP would not be in position to call the referendum in the first place.
Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
I just hope Sturgeon's hasty decision doesn't put off too many investors or worse still encourages businesses to up sticks and head south.0 -
Dumped bloke syndrome.Bojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.
'No one will want you, you ugly bitch, you'll never find someone like me, I MADE YOU!'
And so on.0 -
Where have they all gone - is it past their bedtimeMikeL said:Amendment 1 (EU nationals) defeated:
For - 135
Against - 274
Government win.0 -
burn it prresumablySandyRentool said:
Funnily enough, there are plans for a new coal mine- an open cast near the Northumberland coast. Not a universally popular proposal. For one thing, with all of the coal fired power stations shutting down or converting to wood, what do you do with the coal?Alanbrooke said:
you wipe the froth of a pint of warm bull's semen from your beards as you plan your next coal mineSandyRentool said:
We have the right sort of left wingers in the north east. None of your latte sipping hand wringers from my part of the country.HYUFD said:
Outer London skews the figures a bit more right, iy less than 1% and the latter voted LeaveSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/600283502966345729HYUFD said:
Wales is certainly at least now more rightwing than LondonSean_F said:
Wales has been trending right since 1970, though (1987 and 1992 ernment did in 1931.HYUFD said:
Wales has not voted Tory at any general election over Labour since universal suffrage I believe, Scotland voted Tory in the 1950sSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/598497117380939776HYUFD said:
Even Sweden has a few centre right governments and Scotland voted Tory in the 1950s, Wales is actually more consistent in voting for leftwing parties than Labour, even if the Tories do better there than Scotland now and it voted LeaveSean_F said:
Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week
and thats just the ladies :-)
or sell it to Londoners as art0 -
She can argue that not all Unions are the same, and economically, culturally and politically some are more significant than and qualitatively superior to others. In fairness, that is more difficult by her acting like there are no negatives at all to come from Brexit, but we know she does not believe that, because her personal belief is that whatever the negatives of the EU we should have remained, but for obvious reasons acknowledging even if Brexit is, as we all hope, a success, there will be at the very least short term costs, has not been high on her priority list.Scott_P said:0 -
They should tell her she's made herself unsuitable for the role otherwise anyone she regulates who makes a mistake will 'Do A Hogg'
The future of Charlotte Hogg, the recently appointed deputy governor of the Bank of England, was in the balance on Monday as a parliamentary committee prepared to release a critical report about her suitability for the post.
MPs said the unanimous report by the Treasury committee would only just fall short of recommending she did not get the role. “Not in those words — but it reads the same way,” said one.
The committee is waiting to see whether Ms Hogg will tough it out or abandon her candidature, according to those involved in the discussions. She was formerly the chief operating officer at the Bank.
https://www.ft.com/content/07b53282-0816-11e7-97d1-5e720a26771b0 -
I have no party loyalty. I vote for the party that looks like doing the least damage whilst governing. Given the current options I am out of choices. I believe that the current policies are destroying the UK and it seems I am supposed to be happy about this just because everyone else is.Alanbrooke said:
yes I;m struggling with her argument tooSean_F said:
Compared to Sinn Fein and the DUP the Tories are bleeding hearts.Alanbrooke said:
Mrs C is from Northern Ireland :-)Sean_F said:
You should try living in a country where the ruling party really is full of extremists. You might come to appreciate your own country a bit more.Beverley_C said:
Pre 2010 we had Gordon running up massive debt and a labour govt that was riven by factionalism. They were wrecking the countrySean_F said:
I don't understand what your objection to a Conservative government is. You wanted it, pre-2010, and now you've got it. Theresa May and her Cabinet aren't by any means extremists.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.
Read what I wrote more carefully. I did not say that May was an extremist but that her party had a sizeable number of them. They are wrecking the country0 -
Lab abstaining - or at least Lab front bench abstaining.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Where have they all gone - is it past their bedtimeMikeL said:Amendment 1 (EU nationals) defeated:
For - 135
Against - 274
Government win.0 -
And Sturgeon has to do the versa of the visa. With a few more uncertainties thrown in, I'm a remained but at least the leavers knew which currency they would use.Scott_P said:0 -
Who are the four Independent MPs ?
Simon Danczuk - who I assume voted with the government
Sylvia Hermon
Is Ian Lavery without the whip ?
And who else ?
SNPers with financial 'issues' ?
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You've never heard of Michael Deacon?Alanbrooke said:some bloke weve never heard of
What a sheltered life you must live0 -
Burn it where? As I said, there soon won't be any power stations to burn it in.Alanbrooke said:
burn it prresumablySandyRentool said:
Funnily enough, there are plans for a new coal mine- an open cast near the Northumberland coast. Not a universally popular proposal. For one thing, with all of the coal fired power stations shutting down or converting to wood, what do you do with the coal?Alanbrooke said:
you wipe the froth of a pint of warm bull's semen from your beards as you plan your next coal mineSandyRentool said:
We have the right sort of left wingers in the north east. None of your latte sipping hand wringers from my part of the country.HYUFD said:
Outer London skews the figures a bit more right, iy less than 1% and the latter voted LeaveSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/600283502966345729HYUFD said:
Wales is certainly at least now more rightwing than LondonSean_F said:
Wales has been trending right since 1970, though (1987 and 1992 ernment did in 1931.HYUFD said:
Wales has not voted Tory at any general election over Labour since universal suffrage I believe, Scotland voted Tory in the 1950sSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/598497117380939776HYUFD said:
Even Sweden has a few centre right governments and Scotland voted Tory in the 1950s, Wales is actually more consistent in voting for leftwing parties than Labour, even if the Tories do better there than Scotland now and it voted LeaveSean_F said:
Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week
and thats just the ladies :-)
or sell it to Londoners as art0 -
They made their point about what they think is the best approach with the first vote - they are not willing to defy the elected chamber on it, but that does not mean they are going to vote against that which they support to let it through. I presume.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Where have they all gone - is it past their bedtimeMikeL said:Amendment 1 (EU nationals) defeated:
For - 135
Against - 274
Government win.
When you leave I will still like you, so please forgive the nasty things I will say in the immediate aftermathTheuniondivvie said:
Dumped bloke syndrome.Bojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.
'No one will want you, you ugly bitch, you'll never find someone like me, I MADE YOU!'
And so on.0 -
0
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I was thinking of incorporating The Human League into an upcoming PB thread.Theuniondivvie said:
Dumped bloke syndrome.Bojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.
'No one will want you, you ugly bitch, you'll never find someone like me, I MADE YOU!'
And so on.
'You were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar
When I met you
I picked you out, I shook you up
And turned you around
Turned you into someone new
Now five years later on you've got the world at your feet
Success has been so easy for you
But don't forget it's me who put you where you are now
And I can put you back down too.'
Obviously the headline will be 'Don't EU want me?'0 -
Thanks.Alistair said:
They don't vary a huge amount from Ashcroft but I like to use the Scottish Referendum Study as my baseline as it is a bit more rigorouschestnut said:
The datasets are interesting.Alistair said:
Or to put it another way 86% of No voters were happy to tell friends, family or colleagues how they voted vs 89% of Yes voters.chestnut said:
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/scotland-voted/Alistair said:Time to brush off Lord Ashrcroft's post referendum polling
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/20/scottish-independence-lord-ashcroft-poll
Key takeaways:
39% of Yes voters decided in the last month compared to 19% of No Voters. 63% of No Voters always knew - which translates to the 35% Hard core Unionists I've postulated on.
EU membership was an important issue for 1 in 6 No Voters.
47% of No voters identified risk of going it alone as the key issue of their No vote from the 3 options given.
"Just as the “silent No” voters produced a bigger margin for the Union than recent pre-referendum polls had anticipated, some said they would keep their decision to themselves. One in seven No voters said they would be reluctant to tell their friends, family or colleagues how they had voted."
It is folly to imagine that 'soft Brexit' will appease the nationalists.
Support for Yes up among under 35s and C2DEs in the four polls presently running (Yougov, Panelbase, Ipsos, BMG) but down among over 35s and among ABC1s. (using Ashcroft as a base).
http://www.scottishreferendumstudy.com/
http://centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/sites/default/files/Scottish Referendum Study 27 March 2015.pdf
Interesting to read their findings as I've worked on ESRC funded research contracts in 2013 and 2014.
On one occasion, on some EU related work, I was asked if I worked for UKIP by some doubtful interviewees. 0 -
Not ours to give unilaterally even if the suggestion is serious, aren't we officially committed to not entering into arrangements without their consent?nunu said:0 -
Isn't it good news?PClipp said:
Isn`t that amazing ! We have a Conservative-UKIP dictatorship in power, and they are opposed by the Quisling-Labour Party!FrancisUrquhart said:Labour’s Brexit spokeswoman Baroness Hayter tells the House that her party will not be supporting Lib Dems' attempt to insist on their amendment.
She says that the amendment was rejected by the elected house and adds that it is clear "the government is not for turning".0 -
Politically perfect for the Lib Dems tbhMikeL said:
Lab abstaining - or at least Lab front bench abstaining.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Where have they all gone - is it past their bedtimeMikeL said:Amendment 1 (EU nationals) defeated:
For - 135
Against - 274
Government win. 0 -
We give Gibraltar to Spain in exchange for the Spaniards to publicly say they will veto an independent Scotland's membership of the EU.kle4 said:
Not ours to give unilaterally even if the suggestion is serious, aren't we officially committed to not entering into arrangements without their consent?nunu said:0 -
I agree, but are people really so dim that they actually believe NI is some sort of government-mandated Christmas savings club?FrancisUrquhart said:Daniel Hannan thoughts on NI...
The challenge he faces is the one faced by any politician when change is proposed: the losers blame the government, the winners take their gain for granted. That challenge is exacerbated by the sheer weirdness of having National Insurance as a parallel income tax masquerading as something else.
The solution, surely, is to call NICs what they really are, and let people see quite how vast the actual tax rate is. It would make the system easier and cheaper to administer and, more to the point, it would create popular pressure for lower rates. Is that really such a terrible thing?
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/scrap-national-insurance-so-people-can-see-just-how-much-tax-they-really-pay-1611228
Rhetorical. I know the answer.0 -
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.0 -
I hope the the opportunity for not-brexit doesn't encourage too many English businesses to up sticks and head north.MonikerDiCanio said:
Well said.Saltire said:Sturgeon calling for the indyref now has a feeling of being rather rushed, it is by no means certain that she will be on the winning side and certainly it is along way from when the talk was of waiting until the opinion polls showed a constant lead for Yes before they would call for a 2nd referendum.
Personally I think that it is highly irresponsible of the SNP to hold a 2nd referendum just now. They will be asking the Scottish public to decide between a status quo that will very uncertain since we will have no practical experience of living in post-Brexit Britain and asked to compare that with an even less certain independent future with probably a completely unknown relationship with both rUK and also the EU.
It would be much better to wait until we had lived through Brexit for a few years and have a much better idea of how it has actually impacted on the country rather than having to guess. If Brexit is a disaster then I'm sure that Yes would win comfortably and if Brexit is a success then there is a reasonable chance that the SNP would not be in position to call the referendum in the first place.
Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
I just hope Sturgeon's hasty decision doesn't put off too many investors or worse still encourages businesses to up sticks and head south.
Which is a more likely consequence, IMO.0 -
chestnut said:
Britain Elects @britainelects 2h2 hours ago
"Should there be another #IndyRef held prior to the Brexit negotiations being concluded?"
Yes: 39%
No: 49%
(via BMG / 23 - 27 Feb)
A very old poll, FWIW, and does not show VI.0 -
Nate CohnVerified account @Nate_Cohn 19m19 minutes ago
Trump voters get hammered under the law's tax credit changes. It'll be interesting to see how that plays https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/upshot/why-trump-supporters-have-the-most-to-lose-with-the-gop-repeal-bill.html?action=click&contentCollection=upshot®ion=rank&module=package&version=highlights&contentPlacement=6&pgtype=sectionfront … pic.twitter.com/HOiKcvAVTf
0 -
Why would we want that?TheScreamingEagles said:
We give Gibraltar to Spain in exchange for the Spaniards to publicly say they will veto an independent Scotland's membership of the EU.kle4 said:
Not ours to give unilaterally even if the suggestion is serious, aren't we officially committed to not entering into arrangements without their consent?nunu said:0 -
Presumably the waitress in question is from another EU member state and is now being threatened with deportation by the Conservatives?TheScreamingEagles said:
I was thinking of incorporating The Human League into an upcoming PB thread.Theuniondivvie said:
Dumped bloke syndrome.Bojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.
'No one will want you, you ugly bitch, you'll never find someone like me, I MADE YOU!'
And so on.
'You were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar
When I met you
I picked you out, I shook you up
And turned you around
Turned you into someone new
Now five years later on you've got the world at your feet
Success has been so easy for you
But don't forget it's me who put you where you are now
And I can put you back down too.'
Obviously the headline will be 'Don't EU want me?'0 -
Not at all, but remainers seem to have sunk into a narrative thatBeverley_C said:
I have no party loyalty. I vote for the party that looks like doing the least damage whilst governing. Given the current options I am out of choices. I believe that the current policies are destroying the UK and it seems I am supposed to be happy about this just because everyone else is.Alanbrooke said:
yes I;m struggling with her argument tooSean_F said:
Compared to Sinn Fein and the DUP the Tories are bleeding hearts.Alanbrooke said:
Mrs C is from Northern Ireland :-)Sean_F said:
You should try living in a country where the ruling party really is full of extremists. You might come to appreciate your own country a bit more.Beverley_C said:
Pre 2010 we had Gordon running up massive debare wrecking the countrySean_F said:
I don't understand what your objection to a Conservative government is. You wanted it, pre-2010, and now you've got it. Theresa May and her Cabinet aren't by any means extremists.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.
everything about Brexit is bad
anything bad that happens is a result of Brexit
usually expressed in emotive language
In truth it's much too early to say, more likely we'll be pretty similar to what we are today but just a bit different
I voted Leave but I certainly expect there will be some things we will lose along the way. However on balance I expect me and my children to end up better off.
0 -
It would be difficult to find a more loathsome politician than Nicola Sturgeon. Her voice grates like nails on a blackboard, and she speaks as though she speaks for Scotland, which of course is 100% untrue.
Sturgeon should be told that blackmail will not work.0 -
I like your Sinn Fein flag, BevBeverley_C said:Sean_F said:
Compared to Sinn Fein and the DUP the Tories are bleeding hearts.Alanbrooke said:
Mrs C is from Northern Ireland :-)Sean_F said:
You should try living in a country where the ruling party really is full of extremists. You might come to appreciate your own country a bit more.Beverley_C said:
Pre 2010 we had Gordon running up massive debt and a labour govt that was riven by factionalism. They were wrecking the countrySean_F said:
I don't understand what your objection to a Conservative government is. You wanted it, pre-2010, and now you've got it. Theresa May and her Cabinet aren't by any means extremists.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.
Read what I wrote more carefully. I did not say that May was an extremist but that her party had a sizeable number of them. They are wrecking the country
0 -
Is this true, did she really say this:
' Joanna Cherry (SNP, Edinburgh South West) raised the temperature yet further by quoting a Lithuanian constituent who had told her this country is now “worse than Lithuania under the Soviets”. '
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/03/andrew-gimsons-commons-sketch-england-is-the-mother-of-brexit.html0 -
Do parties really accrue much political benefit from what goes on in the upper house? I feel like "our Lords did x when Labour lords didn't" doesn't have that much resonance.Pulpstar said:
Politically perfect for the Lib Dems tbhMikeL said:
Lab abstaining - or at least Lab front bench abstaining.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Where have they all gone - is it past their bedtimeMikeL said:Amendment 1 (EU nationals) defeated:
For - 135
Against - 274
Government win.0 -
I'll enjoy imagining all the Brexiteers with Phil Oakey fringes.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was thinking of incorporating The Human League into an upcoming PB thread.Theuniondivvie said:
Dumped bloke syndrome.Bojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.
'No one will want you, you ugly bitch, you'll never find someone like me, I MADE YOU!'
And so on.
'You were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar
When I met you
I picked you out, I shook you up
And turned you around
Turned you into someone new
Now five years later on you've got the world at your feet
Success has been so easy for you
But don't forget it's me who put you where you are now
And I can put you back down too.'
Obviously the headline will be 'Don't EU want me?'0 -
Spot on.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Sturgeon has felt the ground shifting beneath her feet and in a panic has jumped into a ravine.0 -
Scotland has oil and secret oil fields = Lots of tax revenues for The Treasurykle4 said:
Why would we want that?TheScreamingEagles said:
We give Gibraltar to Spain in exchange for the Spaniards to publicly say they will veto an independent Scotland's membership of the EU.kle4 said:
Not ours to give unilaterally even if the suggestion is serious, aren't we officially committed to not entering into arrangements without their consent?nunu said:
I'm not sure what Gibraltar brings to the UK, if the Spaniards are blocking a good Brexit deal, we might have to give them Gibraltar as a bribe, or realpolitik as they call it.0 -
Lord Pannick telling off the Lib Dems - he's not voting for Amendment 2 this time.0
-
I haven't had that much hair for 30 years.Theuniondivvie said:
I'll enjoy imagining all the Brexiteers with Phil Oakey fringes.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was thinking of incorporating The Human League into an upcoming PB thread.Theuniondivvie said:
Dumped bloke syndrome.Bojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.
'No one will want you, you ugly bitch, you'll never find someone like me, I MADE YOU!'
And so on.
'You were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar
When I met you
I picked you out, I shook you up
And turned you around
Turned you into someone new
Now five years later on you've got the world at your feet
Success has been so easy for you
But don't forget it's me who put you where you are now
And I can put you back down too.'
Obviously the headline will be 'Don't EU want me?'0 -
Oh yeah, she seems really panicky at a move which if rejected will lead to a surge in support, and a vote which, when held, they have at worst a good chance at winning.MonikerDiCanio said:
Spot on.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Sturgeon has felt the ground shifting beneath her feet and in a panic has jumped into a ravine.0 -
speak to the DUP, theyll get you a subsidySandyRentool said:
Burn it where? As I said, there soon won't be any power stations to burn it in.Alanbrooke said:
burn it prresumablySandyRentool said:
Funnily enough, there are plans for a new coal mine- an open cast near the Northumberland coast. Not a universally popular proposal. For one thing, with all of the coal fired power stations shutting down or converting to wood, what do you do with the coal?Alanbrooke said:
you wipe the froth of a pint of warm bull's semen from your beards as you plan your next coal mineSandyRentool said:
We have the right sort of left wingers in the north east. None of your latte sipping hand wringers from my part of the country.HYUFD said:
Outer London skews the figures a bit more right, iy less than 1% and the latter voted LeaveSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/600283502966345729HYUFD said:
Wales is certainly at least now more rightwing than LondonSean_F said:
Wales has been trending right since 1970, though (1987 and 1992 ernment did in 1931.HYUFD said:
Wales has not voted Tory at any general election over Labour since universal suffrage I believe, Scotland voted Tory in the 1950sSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/598497117380939776HYUFD said:
Even Sweden has a few centre right gd it voted LeaveSean_F said:
Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week
and thats just the ladies :-)
or sell it to Londoners as art0 -
Can anyone explain to me why Manchester United spent £89 million on Paul Pogba, he seems a very expensive Eric Djemba-Djemba0
-
Together In Eccentric DreamsTheuniondivvie said:
I'll enjoy imagining all the Brexiteers with Phil Oakey fringes.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was thinking of incorporating The Human League into an upcoming PB thread.Theuniondivvie said:
Dumped bloke syndrome.Bojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.
'No one will want you, you ugly bitch, you'll never find someone like me, I MADE YOU!'
And so on.
'You were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar
When I met you
I picked you out, I shook you up
And turned you around
Turned you into someone new
Now five years later on you've got the world at your feet
Success has been so easy for you
But don't forget it's me who put you where you are now
And I can put you back down too.'
Obviously the headline will be 'Don't EU want me?'0 -
Bojabob said:
» show previous quotes
If your neighbour is threatening your family, that is awful, and I sympathise. Your neighbour is guilty of a serious crime. I'm not sure what his nationality has to do with it.
That's what I thought when i told the police,the police laughed it off ,the reason he was drunk.
The situation is tense between us.
Bollocks what nationality had to do with it,it had everything to do with it,it was the custom where they come from what the argument started over was what he told the police.0 -
Thats rural Warwickshire, we just stay close to our livestockScott_P said:
You've never heard of Michael Deacon?Alanbrooke said:some bloke weve never heard of
What a sheltered life you must live0 -
Yes, but that presupposes that Spain having promises such a thing would prevent Scotland from voting out, which I doubt. Not least because they could argue it might take longer but they'd get in eventually. France vetoed us and then things changed.TheScreamingEagles said:
Scotland has oil and secret oil fields = Lots of tax revenues for The Treasurykle4 said:
Why would we want that?TheScreamingEagles said:
We give Gibraltar to Spain in exchange for the Spaniards to publicly say they will veto an independent Scotland's membership of the EU.kle4 said:
Not ours to give unilaterally even if the suggestion is serious, aren't we officially committed to not entering into arrangements without their consent?nunu said:
I'm not sure what Gibraltar brings to the UK, if the Spaniards are blocking a good Brexit deal, we might have to give them Gibraltar as a bribe, or realpolitik as they call it.
0 -
I'm no fan of the SNP, but they're surely not as bad as the Soviets.another_richard said:Is this true, did she really say this:
' Joanna Cherry (SNP, Edinburgh South West) raised the temperature yet further by quoting a Lithuanian constituent who had told her this country is now “worse than Lithuania under the Soviets”. '
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2017/03/andrew-gimsons-commons-sketch-england-is-the-mother-of-brexit.html0 -
If you don't use that in an upcoming thread header, then I will.AlastairMeeks said:
Together In Eccentric DreamsTheuniondivvie said:
I'll enjoy imagining all the Brexiteers with Phil Oakey fringes.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was thinking of incorporating The Human League into an upcoming PB thread.Theuniondivvie said:
Dumped bloke syndrome.Bojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.
'No one will want you, you ugly bitch, you'll never find someone like me, I MADE YOU!'
And so on.
'You were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar
When I met you
I picked you out, I shook you up
And turned you around
Turned you into someone new
Now five years later on you've got the world at your feet
Success has been so easy for you
But don't forget it's me who put you where you are now
And I can put you back down too.'
Obviously the headline will be 'Don't EU want me?'0 -
The FA will be happy with this result. I'm sure that has nothing to do with the sending off.TheScreamingEagles said:Can anyone explain to me why Manchester United spent £89 million on Paul Pogba, he seems a very expensive Eric Djemba-Djemba
0 -
Trust me they do.Bojabob said:
I agree, but are people really so dim that they actually believe NI is some sort of government-mandated Christmas savings club?FrancisUrquhart said:Daniel Hannan thoughts on NI...
The challenge he faces is the one faced by any politician when change is proposed: the losers blame the government, the winners take their gain for granted. That challenge is exacerbated by the sheer weirdness of having National Insurance as a parallel income tax masquerading as something else.
The solution, surely, is to call NICs what they really are, and let people see quite how vast the actual tax rate is. It would make the system easier and cheaper to administer and, more to the point, it would create popular pressure for lower rates. Is that really such a terrible thing?
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/scrap-national-insurance-so-people-can-see-just-how-much-tax-they-really-pay-1611228
Rhetorical. I know the answer.
Huge numbers of people really do think that NI pays for the NHS, welfare state and state pensions.
Which is why governments increase NI rather than income tax - people actually think that the increase in NI will mean that their own pension pot will be increased.
0 -
Which of you is going to use "If at first you don't secede" ?TheScreamingEagles said:If you don't use that in an upcoming thread header, then I will.
0 -
A Post Brexit Joxit RequiemAlastairMeeks said:
Together In Eccentric DreamsTheuniondivvie said:
I'll enjoy imagining all the Brexiteers with Phil Oakey fringes.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was thinking of incorporating The Human League into an upcoming PB thread.Theuniondivvie said:
Dumped bloke syndrome.Bojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.
'No one will want you, you ugly bitch, you'll never find someone like me, I MADE YOU!'
And so on.
'You were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar
When I met you
I picked you out, I shook you up
And turned you around
Turned you into someone new
Now five years later on you've got the world at your feet
Success has been so easy for you
But don't forget it's me who put you where you are now
And I can put you back down too.'
Obviously the headline will be 'Don't EU want me?'
Before he leaves the camp he stops
He scans the world outside
And where there used to be some shops
Is where the snipers sometimes hide
He left his home the week before
He thought he'd be like the police
But now he finds he is at war
Weren't we supposed to keep the peace?0 -
There is nothing to stop the Libs, Lab and Tories doing a deal to stand aside in individual Westminster constituencies. They only have three MPs to lose between them.MonikerDiCanio said:
Spot on.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Sturgeon has felt the ground shifting beneath her feet and in a panic has jumped into a ravine.
The SIndys have 44% of the vote but 95% of the Westminster representation.0 -
Oh dear. Lord Taverne just dropped in Hitler and Mussolini.0
-
Also when it comes to changes in the vote from last time it is hard to imagine that the turnout will be any higher than the 85% that was achieved last time and indeed it might well be lower next time. It is one of the big challenges that face the YES camp is to get normal non-voters to turnout again. There is also likely to be a number of Yes voters who will not want to re-join the EU if that is desired future for the SNP and they may abstain rather than vote for either option. I think that it is likely that the nationalists will rule out re-joining the EU in the short term to try and keep their coalition together.
The big decline in Labour's fortunes in Scotland over the last 3 years will not make it any easier for the NO camp and the apathy towards the current direction of that party make may them less likely to vote.
Also it makes the next 2 years (Really not looking forward to that length of a campaign) critical for the SNP government not to make a bigger mess of things than they already are at Holyrood. It will be interesting if the Greens are now much more likely to support them than they currently do since they will be on the same side again.0 -
This is going to be a very interesting semi final draw.tlg86 said:
The FA will be happy with this result. I'm sure that has nothing to do with the sending off.TheScreamingEagles said:Can anyone explain to me why Manchester United spent £89 million on Paul Pogba, he seems a very expensive Eric Djemba-Djemba
0 -
How many clips are there of people from both sides saying the last vote was once in a generation?0
-
the stone age didnt end becasue we ran out of stones and the oil age will end long before we run out of oilTheScreamingEagles said:
Scotland has oil and secret oil fields = Lots of tax revenues for The Treasurykle4 said:
Why would we want that?TheScreamingEagles said:
We give Gibraltar to Spain in exchange for the Spaniards to publicly say they will veto an independent Scotland's membership of the EU.kle4 said:
Not ours to give unilaterally even if the suggestion is serious, aren't we officially committed to not entering into arrangements without their consent?nunu said:
I'm not sure what Gibraltar brings to the UK, if the Spaniards are blocking a good Brexit deal, we might have to give them Gibraltar as a bribe, or realpolitik as they call it.0 -
They might all have very little to lose by trying it, but Lab and Con at least probably harbour dreams of turning Scotland into a two party system between them and the SNP, so have little incentive to stand aside I would guess.chestnut said:
There is nothing to stop the Libs, Lab and Tories doing a deal to stand aside in individual Westminster constituencies. They only have three MPs to lose between them.MonikerDiCanio said:
Spot on.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Sturgeon has felt the ground shifting beneath her feet and in a panic has jumped into a ravine.0 -
I doubt most Scots would resent a rejection by May, they'd most likely welcome it with a deep sigh of relief. Indyref2 would be won easily by No and spell the end of the Nats.kle4 said:
Oh yeah, she seems really panicky at a move which if rejected will lead to a surge in support, and a vote which, when held, they have at worst a good chance at winning.MonikerDiCanio said:
Spot on.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Sturgeon has felt the ground shifting beneath her feet and in a panic has jumped into a ravine.
Sturgeon's playing politics badly since she's put herself in a lose/lose position.0 -
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-nireland-idUKKBN16K28E
"Northern Ireland's largest Irish nationalist party Sinn Fein on Monday said it wanted a referendum on splitting from the United Kingdom "as soon as possible", hours after Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon demanded a new independence vote."0 -
There is also the challenge of No for the same (some of them at any rate will have been No supporters), and also ensuring in general No voters are as enthused to come out as last time.Saltire said:Also when it comes to changes in the vote from last time it is hard to imagine that the turnout will be any higher than the 85% that was achieved last time and indeed it might well be lower next time. It is one of the big challenges that face the YES camp is to get normal non-voters to turnout again.
0 -
lolPong said:http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-nireland-idUKKBN16K28E
"Northern Ireland's largest Irish nationalist party Sinn Fein on Monday said it wanted a referendum on splitting from the United Kingdom "as soon as possible", hours after Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon demanded a new independence vote."
what diid you expect them to say ?0 -
Cad a iontas.Pong said:http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-nireland-idUKKBN16K28E
"Northern Ireland's largest Irish nationalist party Sinn Fein on Monday said it wanted a referendum on splitting from the United Kingdom "as soon as possible", hours after Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon demanded a new independence vote."0 -
I want doesn't get.Pong said:http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-nireland-idUKKBN16K28E
"Northern Ireland's largest Irish nationalist party Sinn Fein on Monday said it wanted a referendum on splitting from the United Kingdom "as soon as possible", hours after Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon demanded a new independence vote."0 -
ShockerPong said:http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-nireland-idUKKBN16K28E
"Northern Ireland's largest Irish nationalist party Sinn Fein on Monday said it wanted a referendum on splitting from the United Kingdom "as soon as possible", hours after Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon demanded a new independence vote."0 -
You think UKIP and Tory Brexiteers will find that acceptable?SeanT said:
Tempting for TMay to say the SNP cannot call a referendum during Brexit (which is true) then drag out the Brexit *transitional arrangements* til, ooh, late 2021.MikeL said:
Surely this is key.Saltire said:Part of the reason why I think they have decided to go for it now is that they know that they might not have the votes in Holyrood in the next Parliament and it is harder to have a referendum in 2020 or 2021 due to a GE and Holyrood elections.
SNP doesn't even have a majority now - they only just scrape over the line with the Greens.
Any fallback at the next Holyrood elections and they couldn't call another referendum.
Then "allow" indyref2.
TMay might just be the kind of flinty bitch that would do that. No man would dare.0 -
LEAVE IN SILENCETheScreamingEagles said:
If you don't use that in an upcoming thread header, then I will.AlastairMeeks said:
Together In Eccentric DreamsTheuniondivvie said:
I'll enjoy imagining all the Brexiteers with Phil Oakey fringes.TheScreamingEagles said:
I was thinking of incorporating The Human League into an upcoming PB thread.Theuniondivvie said:
Dumped bloke syndrome.Bojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.
'No one will want you, you ugly bitch, you'll never find someone like me, I MADE YOU!'
And so on.
'You were working as a waitress in a cocktail bar
When I met you
I picked you out, I shook you up
And turned you around
Turned you into someone new
Now five years later on you've got the world at your feet
Success has been so easy for you
But don't forget it's me who put you where you are now
And I can put you back down too.'
Obviously the headline will be 'Don't EU want me?'0 -
As many as there are of the "No" campaign saying that the only way to guarantee Scotland's membership of the EU was to vote "No".isam said:How many clips are there of people from both sides saying the last vote was once in a generation?
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Ipsos have some likely to vote numbers.kle4 said:
There is also the challenge of No for the same (some of them at any rate will have been No supporters), and also ensuring in general No voters are as enthused to come out as last time.Saltire said:Also when it comes to changes in the vote from last time it is hard to imagine that the turnout will be any higher than the 85% that was achieved last time and indeed it might well be lower next time. It is one of the big challenges that face the YES camp is to get normal non-voters to turnout again.
The frailest are the young and among renters. Both are Yes friendly.
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Already planned.Scott_P said:
Which of you is going to use "If at first you don't secede" ?TheScreamingEagles said:If you don't use that in an upcoming thread header, then I will.
Spoiler: I'm calling Theresa May the modern day Lord North0
