politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » As we edge towards the enactment of the A50 Bill Nicola has ju
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In the short term they would be yes, in the medium term things may change.SeanT said:
The narrative that Scotland will be financially different to the UK, and oil rich like Norway has now gone for good. Most Scots voters will know that iScotland will actually be poorer, and in serious debt.philiph said:
Scotland was on a different path because they believed they could be better off independent. That is better off financially, well oiled and splurging money as they wish. Don't be taken in by the faux altruistic socialist caring noises. As with all who see money, they want more for themselves.GIN1138 said:Bromptonaut said:
As with the prospect of the closure of Vauxhall's plants in England, we hear the persistent whine of the 'it would have happened anyway' klaxon.GIN1138 said:Off Topic:
Happy birthday to Sandy.
On Topic:
Those of us who voted to LEAVE will have to own it. For good or bad.
As far as Scotland is concerned it seems to me they've been on an inexorable and inevitable path to independence for the past 30 years. Yes, Brexit may speed this up a bit but the Union was doomed long before anybody voted to leave the EU.
Bottom line, the Scots don't really want to stay and the English and Welsh are "50/50" at best on whether to Scots remain or leave.
Nothing to do with Brexit. No sirree.
I didn't say it has "nothing" to do with Brexit.
I said Brexit will probably speed up to the process of Scotland leaving a bit... But it's been clear to me for a long time that Scotland was on a different path to England and Wales which is why I was intensely relaxed about the last Sindy Ref and at the time basically said that if the Scots want to leave then good luck to them.
That was my position then. That's my position now.
But will that bother the electors? This is also about emotion.
I was hoping to move to Edinburgh in 2-3 years, will have to keep an eye on things.0 -
Ah, the usual refrain of Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility.GIN1138 said:
The Union has gradually been falling apart, stitch by stitch for 30 years.tlg86 said:
Sorry, but the Union was put at risk in 2014 - and us Brexiteers could do nothing about it.AlastairMeeks said:I think seems that we can add the union to the things that the Ben Tre Brexiters are happy to sacrifice in the pursuit of their hobbyhorse.
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Devolution will kill independence stone dead.GIN1138 said:
The Union has gradually been falling apart, stitch by stitch for 30 years.tlg86 said:
Sorry, but the Union was put at risk in 2014 - and us Brexiteers could do nothing about it.AlastairMeeks said:I think seems that we can add the union to the things that the Ben Tre Brexiters are happy to sacrifice in the pursuit of their hobbyhorse.
George Robertson. What a muppet.0 -
Scott_P said:
Brexit will be awesome. How can it fail with these folk in charge...
@aljwhite: Boris Johnson has quite literally just told the house of commons that a new royal yacht will help us attract trade deals
What geniuses we have on both sides of the house.Floater said:
LOL - utter jokeScott_P said:0 -
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"Should the UNITED KINGDOM remain a member of the EU or should it leave the EU"Scott_P said:0 -
If they want to re-calibrate politics, they could always let in 100 million refugees.....TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.0 -
Very true she is very astute.ThomasNashe said:
Nonsense. She's been able to reach parts of the electorate he never could. And as far as posterity goes, she's likely to be credited with winning the referendum that her predecessor couldn't. She's by far the most able politician currently active in UK politics.MonikerDiCanio said:Stupid mistake by Sturgeon. Not a patch on Eck.
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David Cameron told us he'd eliminate the deficitScott_P said:Brexit will be awesome. How can it fail with these folk in charge...
@aljwhite: Boris Johnson has quite literally just told the house of commons that a new royal yacht will help us attract trade deals
moral of the story - lying tory bastards0 -
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you think were all going to fall into the sea or something ?Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.0 -
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Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week0 -
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Cameron actually promised an EU referendum in 2013, a year before Scots voted in 2014 on independenceTheScreamingEagles said:
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Scotland will leave the rU.K, sad but we both want different things. 300 odd years is a bloody good run.
(and no I wont regret my LEAVE vote if this happens, the only thing that can make me regret my vote is if Brexit leads to a deep recession.)0 -
Brexit McBrexit Face.0
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Scotland would still vote 52% 48% No in today's Herald poll, it will be tight but I don't think you can definitively say anythingnunu said:Scotland will leave the rU.K, sad but we both want different things. 300 odd years is a bloody good run.
(and no I wont regret my LEAVE vote if this happens, the only thing that can make me regret my vote is if Brexit leads to a deep recession.)0 -
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Nice try Bilge but I already acknowledged Brexit WILL speed up the process of Scotland leaving the Union a bit and all who voted to LEAVE will have to own it for good or bad.AlastairMeeks said:
Ah, the usual refrain of Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility.GIN1138 said:
The Union has gradually been falling apart, stitch by stitch for 30 years.tlg86 said:
Sorry, but the Union was put at risk in 2014 - and us Brexiteers could do nothing about it.AlastairMeeks said:I think seems that we can add the union to the things that the Ben Tre Brexiters are happy to sacrifice in the pursuit of their hobbyhorse.
However given its been clear for a long time that the Scot's don't really want to be in a Union with England and Wales while the English and Welsh seem to be generally 50/50 on what the Scot's do I think Scotland leaving will probably be good for everyone because the "ties" that bind us are broken and it's not sustainable...0 -
Brexitania!Theuniondivvie said:0 -
Even Sweden has a few centre right governments and Scotland voted Tory in the 1950s, Wales is actually more consistent in voting for leftwing parties than Labour, even if the Tories do better there than Scotland now and it voted LeaveSean_F said:
Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week0 -
HMS Barnett.Theuniondivvie said:0 -
I agree I said earlier we need a politician with some gravitas to go for a federal UK with an English Parliament There should be a constitutional convention to get the greatest possible agreement.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.0 -
Daniel Hannan thoughts on NI...
The challenge he faces is the one faced by any politician when change is proposed: the losers blame the government, the winners take their gain for granted. That challenge is exacerbated by the sheer weirdness of having National Insurance as a parallel income tax masquerading as something else.
The solution, surely, is to call NICs what they really are, and let people see quite how vast the actual tax rate is. It would make the system easier and cheaper to administer and, more to the point, it would create popular pressure for lower rates. Is that really such a terrible thing?
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/scrap-national-insurance-so-people-can-see-just-how-much-tax-they-really-pay-16112280 -
I don't understand what your objection to a Conservative government is. You wanted it, pre-2010, and now you've got it. Theresa May and her Cabinet aren't by any means extremists.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.0 -
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/598497117380939776HYUFD said:
Even Sweden has a few centre right governments and Scotland voted Tory in the 1950s, Wales is actually more consistent in voting for leftwing parties than Labour, even if the Tories do better there than Scotland now and it voted LeaveSean_F said:
Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week0 -
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So, to Cheltenham. Ordinarily I'd be there for the duration but after a recent op, I can't do it this year.
Champion Hurdle is not a great renewal, and to be honest Day 1 lacks some of the lustre of previous years.
Yanworth is favourite at about 5-2. The question is whether his jumping is slick enough but he'll be doing all his best work at the business end of the race. Buveur d'air and Brain Power represent Nicky Henderson. Both need to improve to win, and may be capable of it, but they're short enough for what they've achieved. The Irish are headed up by Petit Mouchoir and Footpad, but there's more than a suspicion that the best Irish hopes are on the sidelines. The old guard are represented by My Tent or Yours and The New One. It's probably the weakest renewal either of these has faced, and both have ew claims, but again it's hard to see either winning. The novice Moon Racer represents David Pipe and is an intriguing runner. Top class bumper form and a turn of foot but this represents a much bigger test - best tip is to look for what Ballyandy does in the opener, as Moon Racer has beaten him twice. Dan Skelton runs Ch'tibello, a decent handicapper who chased Yanworth home last time and has apparently had a breathing op. At 28-1 he may be a bit of ew value. The field is completed by Sceau Royal, Wicklow Brave and northern raider Cyrus Darius. I wouldn't be surprised to see Wicklow Brave run a big race but can't see him winning.
It's a trappy renewal. I've put Yanworth in a round robin of horses I don't really fancy but can see winning. I think Footpad and Ch'tibello might be overpriced and I've had a little bit ew on Ch'tibello. I don't rule out throwing a fiver at The New One tomorrow for old times sake...
Elsewhere on the card, I do like Apple's Jade in the Mares Hurdle.0 -
You really are a quite despicable person. The only way you can justify your warped, bigoted views is by claiming that everyone who opposes you is evil. It is a shame that you are moving to Ireland. They deserve better than you.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.
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Disagree, we need more NI not less paying for pensions, welfare and social careFrancisUrquhart said:Daniel Hannan thoughts on NI...
The challenge he faces is the one faced by any politician when change is proposed: the losers blame the government, the winners take their gain for granted. That challenge is exacerbated by the sheer weirdness of having National Insurance as a parallel income tax masquerading as something else.
The solution, surely, is to call NICs what they really are, and let people see quite how vast the actual tax rate is. It would make the system easier and cheaper to administer and, more to the point, it would create popular pressure for lower rates. Is that really such a terrible thing?
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/scrap-national-insurance-so-people-can-see-just-how-much-tax-they-really-pay-16112280 -
Trump care is dead. CBO estimates 14 million Americans will lose healthcare next year!!!!!!!!0
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It would only work if you split England into the original kingdoms, which there seems to be zero appetite for, even among people who like the idea of a federal UK.Yorkcity said:
I agree I said earlier we need a politician with some gravitas to go for a federal UK with an English Parliament There should be a constitutional convention to get the greatest possible agreement.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.0 -
Therefore there can also be no 'hard' brexit.Beverley_C said:
There is no soft Brexit. You cannot be a little bit pregnant. We are IN or we are OUTlogical_song said:
Theresa May could keep the UK together by going for a soft Brexit, but I doubt she will.SeanT said:
Well, she'll have to ignore them for now, but she can't deny them a vote forever. The very utmost she can do is make Sturgeon get an indyref2 mandate at the next Holyrood election.MarqueeMark said:
Why? Nothing will EVER satisfy the SNP. Just ignore them for now - and do what is right for Britain. Then sell that deal in IndyRef2.SeanT said:Ganesh is right tho. Joxit 2.0 is a gun to TMay's head.
She might have to go for a considerably softer Brexit.
Do we want the UK to break up? No. It would, for a start, be economically calamitous for Scotland right now, there's no two ways about it. And Scots are my fellow citizens, my daughter is quarter Scots, I don't want them to be foreigners, nor do I want them impoverished.
Why not go for a softer Brexit? It's what the majority of the country would prefer, Remainers and Liberal Leavers, and it is likely to keep the country together.
Hey ho. This is exhausting.
How's Ireland? Sunny today? Do you celebrate Commonwealth Day there too?0 -
There'll be another £ 350 million more a week to ease the pain.nunu said:Scotland will leave the rU.K, sad but we both want different things. 300 odd years is a bloody good run.
(and no I wont regret my LEAVE vote if this happens, the only thing that can make me regret my vote is if Brexit leads to a deep recession.)0 -
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/732785721145188352AlastairMeeks said:
Ah, the usual refrain of Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility.GIN1138 said:
The Union has gradually been falling apart, stitch by stitch for 30 years.tlg86 said:
Sorry, but the Union was put at risk in 2014 - and us Brexiteers could do nothing about it.AlastairMeeks said:I think seems that we can add the union to the things that the Ben Tre Brexiters are happy to sacrifice in the pursuit of their hobbyhorse.
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Wales has not voted Tory at any general election over Labour since universal suffrage I believe, Scotland voted Tory in the 1950sSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/598497117380939776HYUFD said:
Even Sweden has a few centre right governments and Scotland voted Tory in the 1950s, Wales is actually more consistent in voting for leftwing parties than Labour, even if the Tories do better there than Scotland now and it voted LeaveSean_F said:
Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week0 -
Brexit does have to happen and we are quite lucky that it is Theresa May who is leading it.Big_G_NorthWales said:
As a remain voter I am delighted the will of the people has been fulfilled tonight.Bromptonaut said:Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.
You won. You won it all. What's up?
The process can now begin and lets start being positive and getting behind the PM.
The remain and leave sides need to stop fighting the referendum. Tonight ended that
The idea of getting behind a woefully unprepared government by giving them a blank cheque to do anything they want with no scrutiny whatsoever is not likely to end well. It is probably a route to an authoritarian dictatorship.
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I'm sure the 100,000 EU citizens who voted heavily No last time will repeat their loyalty to Brexit Britain.chestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.0 -
No we really don't. We need a massive reduction in the size of the State and a commensurate reduction in the amount we tax the population.HYUFD said:
Disagree, we need more NI not less paying for pensions, welfare and social careFrancisUrquhart said:Daniel Hannan thoughts on NI...
The challenge he faces is the one faced by any politician when change is proposed: the losers blame the government, the winners take their gain for granted. That challenge is exacerbated by the sheer weirdness of having National Insurance as a parallel income tax masquerading as something else.
The solution, surely, is to call NICs what they really are, and let people see quite how vast the actual tax rate is. It would make the system easier and cheaper to administer and, more to the point, it would create popular pressure for lower rates. Is that really such a terrible thing?
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/scrap-national-insurance-so-people-can-see-just-how-much-tax-they-really-pay-16112280 -
Well, things are getting hairy..MonikerDiCanio said:
HMS Barnett.Theuniondivvie said:0 -
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On the contrary there are at least two supporters of that very option on PB itself.williamglenn said:
It would only work if you split England into the original kingdoms, which there seems to be zero appetite for, even among people who like the idea of a federal UK.Yorkcity said:
I agree I said earlier we need a politician with some gravitas to go for a federal UK with an English Parliament There should be a constitutional convention to get the greatest possible agreement.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.0 -
I can't believe I'm cheering for Chelsea.
I actually do like Conte too.0 -
Wales has been trending right since 1970, though (1987 and 1992 excepted). On current polling, the Conservatives would do better in Wales than the national government did in 1931.HYUFD said:
Wales has not voted Tory at any general election over Labour since universal suffrage I believe, Scotland voted Tory in the 1950sSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/598497117380939776HYUFD said:
Even Sweden has a few centre right governments and Scotland voted Tory in the 1950s, Wales is actually more consistent in voting for leftwing parties than Labour, even if the Tories do better there than Scotland now and it voted LeaveSean_F said:
Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week0 -
Thought you were a Hillary manTheScreamingEagles said:I can't believe I'm cheering for Chelsea.
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Given the ageing population and their need for more pensions, more NHS treatment and more social care that is unachievable, people will have to pay for all that and NI is the fairest way. I would agree the rich should be encouraged to take out more private healthcare insurance and private pensions but most people cannot do that to the extent they may needRichard_Tyndall said:
No we really don't. We need a massive reduction in the size of the State and a commensurate reduction in the amount we tax the population.HYUFD said:
Disagree, we need more NI not less paying for pensions, welfare and social careFrancisUrquhart said:Daniel Hannan thoughts on NI...
The challenge he faces is the one faced by any politician when change is proposed: the losers blame the government, the winners take their gain for granted. That challenge is exacerbated by the sheer weirdness of having National Insurance as a parallel income tax masquerading as something else.
The solution, surely, is to call NICs what they really are, and let people see quite how vast the actual tax rate is. It would make the system easier and cheaper to administer and, more to the point, it would create popular pressure for lower rates. Is that really such a terrible thing?
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/scrap-national-insurance-so-people-can-see-just-how-much-tax-they-really-pay-16112280 -
And the 1,000,000 Scottish EU leavers?Alistair said:
I'm sure the 100,000 EU citizens who voted heavily No last time will repeat their loyalty to Brexit Britain.chestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.0 -
Amendments are lost
Storm clouds over Remainers
Britain carries on
#BrexitHaiku
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I would be happy with thatwilliamglenn said:
It would only work if you split England into the original kingdoms, which there seems to be zero appetite for, even among people who like the idea of a federal UK.Yorkcity said:
I agree I said earlier we need a politician with some gravitas to go for a federal UK with an English Parliament There should be a constitutional convention to get the greatest possible agreement.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.0 -
Freedom for Leicestershire!williamglenn said:
It would only work if you split England into the original kingdoms, which there seems to be zero appetite for, even among people who like the idea of a federal UK.Yorkcity said:
I agree I said earlier we need a politician with some gravitas to go for a federal UK with an English Parliament There should be a constitutional convention to get the greatest possible agreement.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.0 -
I doubt you understand Mrs May. "Playing politics" is exactly what she had against Cameron, Osborne and Gove. See https://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n06/david-runciman/do-your-homework#fn-asteriskMikeSmithson said:
It means they've put you in a pickle which is what Nicoal has done. Why the disparaging language? This is politics about real issues that will impact on millions of lives.MarqueeMark said:Or - playing politics means the other person looks like an opportunistic little shit.
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Lords underway on EU Bill Ping Pong - started a few mins ago I think.0
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puts it in perspectiveMarkHopkins said:
Amendments are lost
Storm clouds over Remainers
Britain carries on
#BrexitHaiku
after a couple of months of remainers cllaiming this will be stopped or ttht will bbe stopped Parliament says bollocks and we wait to see the Lords cave in0 -
Wales is certainly at least now more rightwing than LondonSean_F said:
Wales has been trending right since 1970, though (1987 and 1992 excepted). On current polling, the Conservatives would do better in Wales than the national government did in 1931.HYUFD said:
Wales has not voted Tory at any general election over Labour since universal suffrage I believe, Scotland voted Tory in the 1950sSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/598497117380939776HYUFD said:
Even Sweden has a few centre right governments and Scotland voted Tory in the 1950s, Wales is actually more consistent in voting for leftwing parties than Labour, even if the Tories do better there than Scotland now and it voted LeaveSean_F said:
Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week
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Something of that nature will be necessary to smoothly reincorporate the lost Irish counties in the coming years.williamglenn said:
It would only work if you split England into the original kingdoms, which there seems to be zero appetite for, even among people who like the idea of a federal UK.Yorkcity said:
I agree I said earlier we need a politician with some gravitas to go for a federal UK with an English Parliament There should be a constitutional convention to get the greatest possible agreement.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.0 -
Lords now live on BBC Parliament channel.0
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Shock horror, Phil Neville defends persistent fouling.0
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All of them? I am sure some are asleep.MikeL said:Lords now live on BBC Parliament channel.
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Brexit = Boring
Sindy = Boring0 -
Wrong. Just as surely as G.E.s are lost by the govt and not won by the opposition, the referendum was lost by Remain. Most of the blame lies with Cameron, but there is some left over for individual Remainers who have done a dowager-with-a-scalded-fanny routine every day since 24 June 2016, and didn't lift a finger before then when it might have made a difference.AlastairMeeks said:
Ah, the usual refrain of Vote Leave Avoid Responsibility.GIN1138 said:
The Union has gradually been falling apart, stitch by stitch for 30 years.tlg86 said:
Sorry, but the Union was put at risk in 2014 - and us Brexiteers could do nothing about it.AlastairMeeks said:I think seems that we can add the union to the things that the Ben Tre Brexiters are happy to sacrifice in the pursuit of their hobbyhorse.
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@faisalislam: Labour Lords will abstain in Brexit ping pong - after slightly increased Commons majorities for Gov .. Lib Dems want to ping it back -0
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Sounds like episode 2 of New New Top Gear was a cracker....
Why Top Gear needs to kill the car-crash celebrity interviews It was excruciating!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/top-gear-needs-kill-car-crash-celebrity-interviews/
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sky
some australian woman arguing with Ian Murray about whats best for Scotland
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To be honest, having gone back after a decent break, I thought the last couple were OK. Matt Le Blanc is quite good. The biggest problem is the complete lack of innovation.FrancisUrquhart said:Sounds like episode 2 of New New Top Gear was a cracker....
Why Top Gear needs to kill the car-crash celebrity interviews It was excruciating!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tv/0/top-gear-needs-kill-car-crash-celebrity-interviews/
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https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/600283502966345729HYUFD said:
Wales is certainly at least now more rightwing than LondonSean_F said:
Wales has been trending right since 1970, though (1987 and 1992 excepted). On current polling, the Conservatives would do better in Wales than the national government did in 1931.HYUFD said:
Wales has not voted Tory at any general election over Labour since universal suffrage I believe, Scotland voted Tory in the 1950sSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/598497117380939776HYUFD said:
Even Sweden has a few centre right governments and Scotland voted Tory in the 1950s, Wales is actually more consistent in voting for leftwing parties than Labour, even if the Tories do better there than Scotland now and it voted LeaveSean_F said:
Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week0 -
Britain Elects @britainelects 2h2 hours ago
"Should there be another #IndyRef held prior to the Brexit negotiations being concluded?"
Yes: 39%
No: 49%
(via BMG / 23 - 27 Feb)0 -
@MarcherLord1: Superb. Corbyn and McDonnell have voted the #Brexit bill through unamended and are now marching in protest against it.0
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Time to brush off Lord Ashrcroft's post referendum polling
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/20/scottish-independence-lord-ashcroft-poll
Key takeaways:
39% of Yes voters decided in the last month compared to 19% of No Voters. 63% of No Voters always knew - which translates to the 35% Hard core Unionists I've postulated on.
EU membership was an important issue for 1 in 6 No Voters.
47% of No voters identified risk of going it alone as the key issue of their No vote from the 3 options given.
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Outer London skews the figures a bit more right, inner London is certainly leftwing outside of the most expensive bits and even those all voted Remain. Yet even on your chart the South, the East, the Midlands, the Northwest and Yorkshire were all more rightwing than London, London was more rightwing than the Northeast by less than 1% and the latter voted LeaveSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/600283502966345729HYUFD said:
Wales is certainly at least now more rightwing than LondonSean_F said:
Wales has been trending right since 1970, though (1987 and 1992 excepted). On current polling, the Conservatives would do better in Wales than the national government did in 1931.HYUFD said:
Wales has not voted Tory at any general election over Labour since universal suffrage I believe, Scotland voted Tory in the 1950sSunil_Prasannan said:
https://twitter.com/Sunil_P2/status/598497117380939776HYUFD said:
Even Sweden has a few centre right governments and Scotland voted Tory in the 1950s, Wales is actually more consistent in voting for leftwing parties than Labour, even if the Tories do better there than Scotland now and it voted LeaveSean_F said:
Also, they see Scotland as the new Sweden. The one part of the UK that has a permanent left-wing majority.isam said:
It's because the people who lost the EU ref can't accept defeat and now want Scotland to win independence so they can blame Brexitchestnut said:Why assume that the SNP/Yes side will win?
They were not even close last time. They lost by eleven points. They are absolutely miles behind in the polls with all the prime voter groups at the moment.
The only reason we are listening to the interminable neverendum agenda of Sturgeon is that the unionist vote has been fractured in the 2015 election in particular, but slightly less so in 2016.
It's about unionist collaboration and co-operation now.
It'll be something else next week0 -
Ruth Davidson will make hay with today's blunder by Sturgeon. The surge could become a tsunami.chestnut said:Britain Elects @britainelects 2h2 hours ago
"Should there be another #IndyRef held prior to the Brexit negotiations being concluded?"
Yes: 39%
No: 49%
(via BMG / 23 - 27 Feb)0 -
The mood today amongst my circle is of fed-upness. They aren't all Unionists. Take that as you will. This is winnable for the Union, but that doesn't mean it will be won. Mrs May is showing her usual lack of tact and understanding. Whether Yes or No the Scottish question will contribute to the craptitude of Brexit0
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Scottish voters oppose a second indyref by 53% to 46% according to snap Sky news poll, UK voters by 65% to 30%chestnut said:Britain Elects @britainelects 2h2 hours ago
"Should there be another #IndyRef held prior to the Brexit negotiations being concluded?"
Yes: 39%
No: 49%
(via BMG / 23 - 27 Feb)
http://news.sky.com/story/british-public-opposes-second-scottish-referendum-sky-data-poll-108009870 -
They really are the pinnacle of idiocyScott_P said:@MarcherLord1: Superb. Corbyn and McDonnell have voted the #Brexit bill through unamended and are now marching in protest against it.
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http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/scotland-voted/Alistair said:Time to brush off Lord Ashrcroft's post referendum polling
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/20/scottish-independence-lord-ashcroft-poll
Key takeaways:
39% of Yes voters decided in the last month compared to 19% of No Voters. 63% of No Voters always knew - which translates to the 35% Hard core Unionists I've postulated on.
EU membership was an important issue for 1 in 6 No Voters.
47% of No voters identified risk of going it alone as the key issue of their No vote from the 3 options given.
"Just as the “silent No” voters produced a bigger margin for the Union than recent pre-referendum polls had anticipated, some said they would keep their decision to themselves. One in seven No voters said they would be reluctant to tell their friends, family or colleagues how they had voted.
Finally, for how long do Scottish voters think the question of independence will remain settled? A majority of those who voted No said they thought the issue was now resolved for at least a generation (28%) or forever (25%). Yes voters disagree: more than six in ten said they thought the matter was settled for no more than ten years, including nearly half (45%) who thought the question would remain closed for no more than five years."
It is folly to imagine that 'soft Brexit' will appease the nationalists.0 -
Google Wants to Use AI to Cut the UK's Electric Bill by 10 Percent
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/energy/a25648/google-save-uk-10-percent-electric-bill/0 -
LDs getting sledged in HoL
not much sign of an appetite for sending bill back0 -
'Opportunist' is another phrase that those on the wrong end of a political move often employ.MikeSmithson said:
It means they've put you in a pickle which is what Nicoal has done. Why the disparaging language? This is politics about real issues that will impact on millions of lives.MarqueeMark said:Or - playing politics means the other person looks like an opportunistic little shit.
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Tables: http://interactive.news.sky.com/SMSXLVI_INDYREF2_130317_FP.pdfHYUFD said:
Scottish voters oppose a second indyref by 53% to 46% according to snap Sky news poll, UK voters by 65% to 30%chestnut said:Britain Elects @britainelects 2h2 hours ago
"Should there be another #IndyRef held prior to the Brexit negotiations being concluded?"
Yes: 39%
No: 49%
(via BMG / 23 - 27 Feb)
http://news.sky.com/story/british-public-opposes-second-scottish-referendum-sky-data-poll-10800987
It's a 'Nationally representative sample of 1,203 Sky customers' which probably makes it a bit iffy.0 -
I am starting to question if Jezza even managed those 2 E's at A-Level....so dense light bends around him.Monksfield said:
They really are the pinnacle of idiocyScott_P said:@MarcherLord1: Superb. Corbyn and McDonnell have voted the #Brexit bill through unamended and are now marching in protest against it.
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Although it is weighted to the profile of the populationwasd said:
Tables: http://interactive.news.sky.com/SMSXLVI_INDYREF2_130317_FP.pdfHYUFD said:
Scottish voters oppose a second indyref by 53% to 46% according to snap Sky news poll, UK voters by 65% to 30%chestnut said:Britain Elects @britainelects 2h2 hours ago
"Should there be another #IndyRef held prior to the Brexit negotiations being concluded?"
Yes: 39%
No: 49%
(via BMG / 23 - 27 Feb)
http://news.sky.com/story/british-public-opposes-second-scottish-referendum-sky-data-poll-10800987
It's a 'Nationally representative sample of 1,203 Sky customers' which probably makes it a bit iffy.0 -
Or to put it another way 86% of No voters were happy to tell friends, family or colleagues how they voted vs 89% of Yes voters.chestnut said:
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/scotland-voted/Alistair said:Time to brush off Lord Ashrcroft's post referendum polling
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/20/scottish-independence-lord-ashcroft-poll
Key takeaways:
39% of Yes voters decided in the last month compared to 19% of No Voters. 63% of No Voters always knew - which translates to the 35% Hard core Unionists I've postulated on.
EU membership was an important issue for 1 in 6 No Voters.
47% of No voters identified risk of going it alone as the key issue of their No vote from the 3 options given.
"Just as the “silent No” voters produced a bigger margin for the Union than recent pre-referendum polls had anticipated, some said they would keep their decision to themselves. One in seven No voters said they would be reluctant to tell their friends, family or colleagues how they had voted."
It is folly to imagine that 'soft Brexit' will appease the nationalists.0 -
Goes back to the Lords but will probably go through without a vote.SimonStClare said:PB Brain Trust - The Lord’s amendments defeated in the HOC, so what happens now, do they go back to the Lords for further revision, or is the PM able to activate A50 as things stand?
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I believe I predicted a new ScExit referendum soon after the BrExit one.
Small acorns from mighty oaks do fall.0 -
I believe they are calling it the Republican WealthCare Bill.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Pre 2010 we had Gordon running up massive debt and a labour govt that was riven by factionalism. They were wrecking the countrySean_F said:
I don't understand what your objection to a Conservative government is. You wanted it, pre-2010, and now you've got it. Theresa May and her Cabinet aren't by any means extremists.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.
Read what I wrote more carefully. I did not say that May was an extremist but that her party had a sizeable number of them. They are wrecking the country0 -
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.0 -
Here's a theory:
If Labour had introduced equal devolution and we had an English Parliament there would be no Brexit and no chance of Scottish independence
Here's another theory:
If the likes of Blair and Gus O'Donnell had fought hard for Britain in EU negotiations instead of sacrificing British interests to maximise those of the wider world there would be no Brexit and no chance of Scottish independence
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The datasets are interesting.Alistair said:
Or to put it another way 86% of No voters were happy to tell friends, family or colleagues how they voted vs 89% of Yes voters.chestnut said:
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/scotland-voted/Alistair said:Time to brush off Lord Ashrcroft's post referendum polling
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/sep/20/scottish-independence-lord-ashcroft-poll
Key takeaways:
39% of Yes voters decided in the last month compared to 19% of No Voters. 63% of No Voters always knew - which translates to the 35% Hard core Unionists I've postulated on.
EU membership was an important issue for 1 in 6 No Voters.
47% of No voters identified risk of going it alone as the key issue of their No vote from the 3 options given.
"Just as the “silent No” voters produced a bigger margin for the Union than recent pre-referendum polls had anticipated, some said they would keep their decision to themselves. One in seven No voters said they would be reluctant to tell their friends, family or colleagues how they had voted."
It is folly to imagine that 'soft Brexit' will appease the nationalists.
Support for Yes up among under 35s and C2DEs in the four polls presently running (Yougov, Panelbase, Ipsos, BMG) but down among over 35s and among ABC1s. (using Ashcroft as a base).0 -
If Leavers were happy you'd complain about misplaced triumphalism or gloating. I don't come here to display my emotion de jour. I'm very happy for reasons that have nothing to do with politics.Bromptonaut said:Striking lack of rejoicing from the PB Tory Leavers on here tonight.
You won. You won it all. What's up?
Ultimately, Brexit is serious business. May could easily fuck it up, or rather, May combined with various EU27 political imperatives could result in something fucked up. I was always a grim-dark Brexiteer as my posts from '15/16 show. Within the narrow domain of our A50 invocation I feel both grimmer and darker than I had anticipated. That said, I don't much care about the Union. If the Scots feel it has outlived its usefulness, then fair play to them.0 -
An IndyRef2 was and is inevitable given the strength of support that still remained for independence and the SNP specifically. The bickering over when is pure politics - obviously Sturgeon would and will push for one at the most advantageous time and would have done so regardless of Brexit, though it would probably have taken longer for the opportune moment to come.
Therein lies the problem for unionists who are also hard brexiters. Unionists generally, particularly in Scotland, would probably be willing to slide on some key points to close the issue down, but hard brexiters will point out that caving in won't close down the issue, and the SNP will remain for the foreseeable future the dominant force north of the border. Therefore they would probably be more inclined to risk making no concessions at all.0 -
it bewilders many of us celts why the english are so determined to be doormatsBojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.
people rarely respect you if youre not prepared to stand up for your own interest0 -
You should try living in a country where the ruling party really is full of extremists. You might come to appreciate your own country a bit more.Beverley_C said:
Pre 2010 we had Gordon running up massive debt and a labour govt that was riven by factionalism. They were wrecking the countrySean_F said:
I don't understand what your objection to a Conservative government is. You wanted it, pre-2010, and now you've got it. Theresa May and her Cabinet aren't by any means extremists.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.
Read what I wrote more carefully. I did not say that May was an extremist but that her party had a sizeable number of them. They are wrecking the country0 -
Because the relationship has never been one of equals in English eyesBojabob said:
It is not clear to me why a certain group of unionists ares so determined to be crass, uncivil neighbours following an independence vote. It somewhat undermines the emotional case for the union.CD13 said:If the Scots vote for independence from the UK and rejoin the EU, it will be at great cost to them. We could build a glass wall across the border so we can watch them in their EU prison uniforms begging for crusts.
For the sake of Auld Lang Syne, I'd throw then a few Euros.0 -
Labour’s Brexit spokeswoman Baroness Hayter tells the House that her party will not be supporting Lib Dems' attempt to insist on their amendment.
She says that the amendment was rejected by the elected house and adds that it is clear "the government is not for turning".0 -
Mrs C is from Northern Ireland :-)Sean_F said:
You should try living in a country where the ruling party really is full of extremists. You might come to appreciate your own country a bit more.Beverley_C said:
Pre 2010 we had Gordon running up massive debt and a labour govt that was riven by factionalism. They were wrecking the countrySean_F said:
I don't understand what your objection to a Conservative government is. You wanted it, pre-2010, and now you've got it. Theresa May and her Cabinet aren't by any means extremists.Beverley_C said:
Parliament has proven to be spineless. We have a ruling party with a large percentage of xenophobes, scoundrels and throwbacks, an opposition that is lost gazing in its own navel, an ineffective third party waiting for the voters to flock to its banners and a collection of other flotsam & jetsam.Yorkcity said:The Conservatives in parliament are totally united you have to hand it to them .They show no qualms which is doing well in the polls.
Frankly, I am not sure that Westminster (and by implication the UK) is saveable.
Read what I wrote more carefully. I did not say that May was an extremist but that her party had a sizeable number of them. They are wrecking the country0
