I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody Germans, combining a high wage, manufacturing economy with liberal democracy. Breaks all the rules of the protectionist nationalists.
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
That certainly has been the German mantra since the Second World War. Hard Mark/Euro. If you find it difficult to compete you reduce your costs or improve your product. They have been quite successful.
Although disqualified for non attendance , the Ratepayer in Fylde will be re elected easily . The Conservative plot to remove him will backfire on them badly .
Are the plot and the disqualification separate things? Because if they didn't attend, it doesn't take a plot to mean a by-election must occur due to disqualification, surely, unless there was a good reason for the absence and the council refused to authorise it?
He has severe agoraphobia . The council is allowed to waive the 6 month rule in circumstances they feel justified but apparently the Conservatives insisted on it .
Why on earth does he want to win a position he is entirely unable to fulfill?
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
The Greeks did not have to join the Euro
of course not, and the rest of Europe didnt have to let them
Perhaps but it was the Greeks who took the risk
Nah both sides made it happen
Europe bent the rules to let them in, they are complicit in the mess
Yes but it is the Greeks who will feel the most pain if they have to get out
theyre screwed
but the germans havent the moral platform to realise they should man up and help sort out the mess
If the Greeks get back on with the task of tackling their deficit they may
their debts at 180% of GDP are beyond manageable, they need debt relief but the germans wont budge even though they know they have zero chance of getting all their money back
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
The Greeks did not have to join the Euro
of course not, and the rest of Europe didnt have to let them
Perhaps but it was the Greeks who took the risk
Nah both sides made it happen
Europe bent the rules to let them in, they are complicit in the mess
Yes but it is the Greeks who will feel the most pain if they have to get out
theyre screwed
but the germans havent the moral platform to realise they should man up and help sort out the mess
If the Greeks get back on with the task of tackling their deficit they may
their debts at 180% of GDP are beyond manageable, they need debt relief but the germans wont budge even though they know they have zero chance of getting all their money back
Germany has given rescue packages to Greece before, it will only get another one if it sticks to its austerity measures
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody Germans, combining a high wage, manufacturing economy with liberal democracy. Breaks all the rules of the protectionist nationalists.
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
That certainly has been the German mantra since the Second World War. Hard Mark/Euro. If you find it difficult to compete you reduce your costs or improve your product. They have been quite successful.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
Although disqualified for non attendance , the Ratepayer in Fylde will be re elected easily . The Conservative plot to remove him will backfire on them badly .
Are the plot and the disqualification separate things? Because if they didn't attend, it doesn't take a plot to mean a by-election must occur due to disqualification, surely, unless there was a good reason for the absence and the council refused to authorise it?
He has severe agoraphobia . The council is allowed to waive the 6 month rule in circumstances they feel justified but apparently the Conservatives insisted on it .
Why on earth does he want to win a position he is entirely unable to fulfill?
Blimey, this bbc brexit program is pretty gloomy about the EU.
Not sure ever seen the bbc show something so negative about the EU project. This programme made it seem like the most unhappy family where the head of the family ain't listening to anything the rest say.
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
The Greeks did not have to join the Euro
of course not, and the rest of Europe didnt have to let them
Perhaps but it was the Greeks who took the risk
Nah both sides made it happen
Europe bent the rules to let them in, they are complicit in the mess
Yes but it is the Greeks who will feel the most pain if they have to get out
theyre screwed
but the germans havent the moral platform to realise they should man up and help sort out the mess
If the Greeks get back on with the task of tackling their deficit they may
their debts at 180% of GDP are beyond manageable, they need debt relief but the germans wont budge even though they know they have zero chance of getting all their money back
Germany has given rescue packages to Greece before, it will only get another one if it sticks to its austerity measures
Rescue packages that have not written off the debt...
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody Germans, combining a high wage, manufacturing economy with liberal democracy. Breaks all the rules of the protectionist nationalists.
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
That certainly has been the German mantra since the Second World War. Hard Mark/Euro. If you find it difficult to compete you reduce your costs or improve your product. They have been quite successful.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
The Greeks did not have to join the Euro
of course not, and the rest of Europe didnt have to let them
Perhaps but it was the Greeks who took the risk
Nah both sides made it happen
Europe bent the rules to let them in, they are complicit in the mess
Yes but it is the Greeks who will feel the most pain if they have to get out
theyre screwed
but the germans havent the moral platform to realise they should man up and help sort out the mess
If the Greeks get back on with the task of tackling their deficit they may
their debts at 180% of GDP are beyond manageable, they need debt relief but the germans wont budge even though they know they have zero chance of getting all their money back
Germany has given rescue packages to Greece before, it will only get another one if it sticks to its austerity measures
the rescue packages are debt rollover, not debt relief
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
The Greeks did not have to join the Euro
of course not, and the rest of Europe didnt have to let them
Perhaps but it was the Greeks who took the risk
Nah both sides made it happen
Europe bent the rules to let them in, they are complicit in the mess
Yes but it is the Greeks who will feel the most pain if they have to get out
theyre screwed
but the germans havent the moral platform to realise they should man up and help sort out the mess
If the Greeks get back on with the task of tackling their deficit they may
their debts at 180% of GDP are beyond manageable, they need debt relief but the germans wont budge even though they know they have zero chance of getting all their money back
Germany has given rescue packages to Greece before, it will only get another one if it sticks to its austerity measures
Rescue packages that have not written off the debt...
German voters are certainly not going to allow Merkel to write off the debt at the moment which they would then be paying for
Although disqualified for non attendance , the Ratepayer in Fylde will be re elected easily . The Conservative plot to remove him will backfire on them badly .
Are the plot and the disqualification separate things? Because if they didn't attend, it doesn't take a plot to mean a by-election must occur due to disqualification, surely, unless there was a good reason for the absence and the council refused to authorise it?
He has severe agoraphobia . The council is allowed to waive the 6 month rule in circumstances they feel justified but apparently the Conservatives insisted on it .
Why on earth does he want to win a position he is entirely unable to fulfill?
Devaluation only happens in a fixed exchange rate system. Floating currencies 'depreciate'.
Actually, the word "devaluation" refers to the reduction of one currency measured in another. It can be used for both fixed and floating exchange rates. Although I accept "depreciate" is a better word.
Yes it was (altho' wasn't it 1.08?). But it should be pointed out that the $1.05/8 only lasted for a very short time, whereas the current malaise of GDP/USD has already gone on for some months now and isn't likely to improve between now and Article 50 in March
...and far closer to parity with the € in 2008/2009 than it is now.
Fair point, and although it should be said that GBP/EUR was around 1.4/1,5 for about 7 years before 2008, it has since then fluctuated greatly, and it's current 1.15 or thereabouts is awkward but not painful
But this just serves to highlight the extremity of GBP/USD: it hasn't been this low this long ever. It's closer to the 60's devaluation in terms of lasting effect than the ERM.
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
The Greeks did not have to join the Euro
of course not, and the rest of Europe didnt have to let them
Perhaps but it was the Greeks who took the risk
Nah both sides made it happen
Europe bent the rules to let them in, they are complicit in the mess
Yes but it is the Greeks who will feel the most pain if they have to get out
theyre screwed
but the germans havent the moral platform to realise they should man up and help sort out the mess
If the Greeks get back on with the task of tackling their deficit they may
their debts at 180% of GDP are beyond manageable, they need debt relief but the germans wont budge even though they know they have zero chance of getting all their money back
Germany has given rescue packages to Greece before, it will only get another one if it sticks to its austerity measures
Rescue packages that have not written off the debt...
German voters are certainly not going to allow Merkel to write off the debt at the moment which they would then be paying for
of course not
but the consequence is Germans are quite happy for Greece to sink into the sea
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody Germans, combining a high wage, manufacturing economy with liberal democracy. Breaks all the rules of the protectionist nationalists.
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
That certainly has been the German mantra since the Second World War. Hard Mark/Euro. If you find it difficult to compete you reduce your costs or improve your product. They have been quite successful.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
The Greeks did not have to join the Euro
of course not, and the rest of Europe didnt have to let them
Perhaps but it was the Greeks who took the risk
Nah both sides made it happen
Europe bent the rules to let them in, they are complicit in the mess
Yes but it is the Greeks who will feel the most pain if they have to get out
theyre screwed
but the germans havent the moral platform to realise they should man up and help sort out the mess
If the Greeks get back on with the task of tackling their deficit they may
their debts at 180% of GDP are beyond manageable, they need debt relief but the germans wont budge even though they know they have zero chance of getting all their money back
Germany has given rescue packages to Greece before, it will only get another one if it sticks to its austerity measures
Rescue packages that have not written off the debt...
German voters are certainly not going to allow Merkel to write off the debt at the moment which they would then be paying for
of course not
but the consequence is Germans are quite happy for Greece to sink into the sea
Well Greece can leave the Euro if it really has to, if it wants to stay Germany sets the rules
their debts at 180% of GDP are beyond manageable, they need debt relief but the germans wont budge even though they know they have zero chance of getting all their money back
That's true, but they are not paying interest at the rate implied by that 180%. There's a lot of pretence going on: that the money owed will ever be paid and that the Greeks could, if they defaulted, get loans at rates anything like the current terms with the Eurozone countries
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
The Greeks did not have to join the Euro
of course not, and the rest of Europe didnt have to let them
Perhaps but it was the Greeks who took the risk
Nah both sides made it happen
Europe bent the rules to let them in, they are complicit in the mess
Yes but it is the Greeks who will feel the most pain if they have to get out
theyre screwed
but the germans havent the moral platform to realise they should man up and help sort out the mess
If the Greeks get back on with the task of tackling their deficit they may
their debts at 180% of GDP are beyond manageable, they need debt relief but the germans wont budge even though they know they have zero chance of getting all their money back
Germany has given rescue packages to Greece before, it will only get another one if it sticks to its austerity measures
Rescue packages that have not written off the debt...
German voters are certainly not going to allow Merkel to write off the debt at the moment which they would then be paying for
It should be sold as getting something will be better than:
1) getting nothing when 2) Greece crashes out of the Euro and the currency rises
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody Germans, combining a high wage, manufacturing economy with liberal democracy. Breaks all the rules of the protectionist nationalists.
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
That certainly has been the German mantra since the Second World War. Hard Mark/Euro. If you find it difficult to compete you reduce your costs or improve your product. They have been quite successful.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
A strange thing for a conservative to say.
Its true though. The paradox of thrift.
However on an individual level its better to be thrifty than profligate.
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
The Greeks did not have to join the Euro
of course not, and the rest of Europe didnt have to let them
Perhaps but it was the Greeks who took the risk
Nah both sides made it happen
Europe bent the rules to let them in, they are complicit in the mess
Yes but it is the Greeks who will feel the most pain if they have to get out
theyre screwed
but the germans havent the moral platform to realise they should man up and help sort out the mess
If the Greeks get back on with the task of tackling their deficit they may
their debts at 180% of GDP are beyond manageable, they need debt relief but the germans wont budge even though they know they have zero chance of getting all their money back
Germany has given rescue packages to Greece before, it will only get another one if it sticks to its austerity measures
Rescue packages that have not written off the debt...
German voters are certainly not going to allow Merkel to write off the debt at the moment which they would then be paying for
It should be sold as getting something will be better than:
1) getting nothing when 2) Greece crashes out of the Euro and the currency rises
Until Greece shows it itself even willing to contemplate leaving the Euro that won't happen
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody Germans, combining a high wage, manufacturing economy with liberal democracy. Breaks all the rules of the protectionist nationalists.
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
That certainly has been the German mantra since the Second World War. Hard Mark/Euro. If you find it difficult to compete you reduce your costs or improve your product. They have been quite successful.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
Blimey, this bbc brexit program is pretty gloomy about the EU.
Not sure ever seen the bbc show something so negative about the EU project. This programme made it seem like the most unhappy family where the head of the family ain't listening to anything the rest say.
I thought the most revealing part of the program was the German bloke saying how wonderful the EU and the euro had been for Germany. What a shame its been at the expense of southern Eurooe.
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody Germans, combining a high wage, manufacturing economy with liberal democracy. Breaks all the rules of the protectionist nationalists.
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
I'm rapidly changing my mind to the former option, I weep for the NHS if this is the standard of intelligence in our medical staff.
Serial devaluation and inflation was how Britain tried to adjust in the sixties and seventies. How did that go?
Mrs Thatcher squeezed out inflation, in part by high interest rates pushing up the value of Sterling. Tough on many parts of Britain certainly, and I agree that tbere is anargument that the benefit was not worth the cost, but not totally dissimar to what is going on in Europe now.
their debts at 180% of GDP are beyond manageable, they need debt relief but the germans wont budge even though they know they have zero chance of getting all their money back
That's true, but they are not paying interest at the rate implied by that 180%. There's a lot of pretence going on: that the money owed will ever be paid and that the Greeks could, if they defaulted, get loans at rates anything like the current terms with the Eurozone countries
of course they cant, thats why debt relief is essential and Germany needs to face up to its reposnibilities
So the Euro has dropped 7.9% relative to the USD - which is annoying Trump and his team.
But ! We've dropped 17.3% relative to the Euro, and 35% relative to the USD.
What reassures me is the massive trade surplus that we'll get due to our superior exporting power whilst our currency is temporarily under the pump
The ECB, BOE, and BOJ are all trying to devalue their currencies at the moment, and Trump is trying to talk down the USD. Given the perpetual anti-German stance of PB, the ECB is singled out for criticism but the other three...not so much.
I thought the most revealing part of the program was the German bloke saying how wonderful the EU and the euro had been for Germany. What a shame its been at the expense of southern Eurooe.
And a floor 5 and a half at the EU offices? Eh?
The Italians will be the death of the euro.
The EU is already starting to crumble - one of it's biggest economies and most populous countries has just voted to bugger off.
It's like California leaving the USA or East Germany leaving the communist bloc.
I'm rapidly changing my mind to the former option, I weep for the NHS if this is the standard of intelligence in our medical staff.
How about engaging on the arguments, instead of gratuitously insulting other commentators? You're not coming across as particularly intelligent yourself. I'm sure you could be, if you tried.
Blimey, this bbc brexit program is pretty gloomy about the EU.
Not sure ever seen the bbc show something so negative about the EU project. This programme made it seem like the most unhappy family where the head of the family ain't listening to anything the rest say.
I thought the most revealing part of the program was the German bloke saying how wonderful the EU and the euro had been for Germany. What a shame its been at the expense of southern Eurooe.
And a floor 5 and a half at the EU offices? Eh?
There was a really good freakonomics episode with a labour economist talking about globalisation and how politicians (and economists) have for far too long just looked at things like GDP and gone we are doing great and those that lost out to an industry moving to lower cost economy will simply retrain and move to new jobs...the guy explains why this has been flawed thinking and why we got trump etc.
I'm rapidly changing my mind to the former option, I weep for the NHS if this is the standard of intelligence in our medical staff.
How about engaging on the arguments, instead of gratuitously insulting other commentators? You're not coming across as particularly intelligent yourself. I'm sure you could be, if you tried.
Max is a teenage scribbler. He has no memory of how inflation wrecks countries.
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody Germans, combining a high wage, manufacturing economy with liberal democracy. Breaks all the rules of the protectionist nationalists.
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
That certainly has been the German mantra since the Second World War. Hard Mark/Euro. If you find it difficult to compete you reduce your costs or improve your product. They have been quite successful.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
I have been mildly tickled by the Spiegel anti-Trump, anti-Putin and anti-Brexit rhetoric, recently.
Not saying I dig it, but it wasn't exactly an unambiguous success the last time the Germans dominated Europe and went up against the US, UK and Russia all at the same time.
So the Euro has dropped 7.9% relative to the USD - which is annoying Trump and his team.
But ! We've dropped 17.3% relative to the Euro, and 35% relative to the USD.
What reassures me is the massive trade surplus that we'll get due to our superior exporting power whilst our currency is temporarily under the pump
The IMF say the DM would be valued at $1.70, which compares to $1.07 or there abouts. It is currency manipulation by any other name.
Of course, Trump's comments about the likely collapse of the Eurozone have probably pushed the currency down 5-10% too. Come to mention it, the proposed Border Tax Adjustment has also pushed the US up relative to the Euro.
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody Germans, combining a high wage, manufacturing economy with liberal democracy. Breaks all the rules of the protectionist nationalists.
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
That certainly has been the German mantra since the Second World War. Hard Mark/Euro. If you find it difficult to compete you reduce your costs or improve your product. They have been quite successful.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
I have been mildly tickled by the Speigel anti-Trump, anti-Putin and anti-Brexit rhetoric, recently.
Not saying I dig it, but it wasn't exactly an unambiguous success the last time the Germans dominated Europe and went up against the US, UK and Russia all at the same time.
Lol. Indeed. Central European overconfidence and assertiveness has rarely ended well.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
A strange thing for a conservative to say.
If I understand correctly, conservatives in the UK currently believe in a weak currency, increased government spending, a credit boom, increasing taxes, leaving free markets, and reducing debts by stoking inflation to inflate it away.
If you want to attach a generator to Thatcher's spinning body, I reckon we could generate a couple of megawatts.
I'm rapidly changing my mind to the former option, I weep for the NHS if this is the standard of intelligence in our medical staff.
How about engaging on the arguments, instead of gratuitously insulting other commentators? You're not coming across as particularly intelligent yourself. I'm sure you could be, if you tried.
Insults is all you're getting. Posting on PB has turned into a chore with all of the stupidity from normally thoughtful posters. Brexit and Trump seems to have sent people off the edge of some kind of a cliff and they (you) are all stuck in this "Germany = good" even when they are blatantly exploiting their position within a fixed currency system and hollowing out Southern Europe.
Hopefully when we do leave the EU those who can't be reconciled fuck off to Brussels and those who can will just get over it.
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
That certainly has been the German mantra since the Second World War. Hard Mark/Euro. If you find it difficult to compete you reduce your costs or improve your product. They have been quite successful.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
A strange thing for a conservative to say.
Its true though. The paradox of thrift.
However on an individual level its better to be thrifty than profligate.
Whenever our economy starts to look like it's doing pretty well we all spend and borrow money like it's going out of fashion. Always.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
A strange thing for a conservative to say.
If I understand correctly, conservatives in the UK currently believe in a weak currency, increased government spending, a credit boom, increasing taxes, leaving free markets, and reducing debts by stoking inflation to inflate it away.
If you want to attach a generator to Thatcher's spinning body, I reckon we could generate a couple of megawatts.
I'm rapidly changing my mind to the former option, I weep for the NHS if this is the standard of intelligence in our medical staff.
How about engaging on the arguments, instead of gratuitously insulting other commentators? You're not coming across as particularly intelligent yourself. I'm sure you could be, if you tried.
Insults is all you're getting. Posting on PB has turned into a chore with all of the stupidity from normally thoughtful posters. Brexit and Trump seems to have sent people off the edge of some kind of a cliff and they (you) are all stuck in this "Germany = good" even when they are blatantly exploiting their position within a fixed currency system and hollowing out Southern Europe.
Hopefully when we do leave the EU those who can't be reconciled fuck off to Brussels and those who can will just get over it.
Brussels is a shithole. I was shocked just how dull it was. No wonder they have to move to Strasbourg once a month.
I'm rapidly changing my mind to the former option, I weep for the NHS if this is the standard of intelligence in our medical staff.
How about engaging on the arguments, instead of gratuitously insulting other commentators? You're not coming across as particularly intelligent yourself. I'm sure you could be, if you tried.
Insults is all you're getting. Posting on PB has turned into a chore with all of the stupidity from normally thoughtful posters. Brexit and Trump seems to have sent people off the edge of some kind of a cliff and they (you) are all stuck in this "Germany = good" even when they are blatantly exploiting their position within a fixed currency system and hollowing out Southern Europe.
Hopefully when we do leave the EU those who can't be reconciled fuck off to Brussels and those who can will just get over it.
Or maybe you should go to bed and hopefully not wake up being radged?
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody Germans, combining a high wage, manufacturing economy with liberal democracy. Breaks all the rules of the protectionist nationalists.
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
That certainly has been the German mantra since the Second World War. Hard Mark/Euro. If you find it difficult to compete you reduce your costs or improve your product. They have been quite successful.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
I have been mildly tickled by the Spiegel anti-Trump, anti-Putin and anti-Brexit rhetoric, recently.
Not saying I dig it, but it wasn't exactly an unambiguous success the last time the Germans dominated Europe and went up against the US, UK and Russia all at the same time.
Except things are very different now, indeed roles are reversed, with Germany (and other parts of the EU) being anti-militarist, pro capitalist, liberal, democracies, with the militaristic protectionist autocrats in the other corner. Big difference.
Rescue packages that have not written off the debt...
If memory serves, of the several debt doodads that Greece has received, one or two actually did involve actual debts being written off. The others involved delayed payments or swapping one debt instrument for another (which are technically also debt writeoffs, btw, but that's not what you meant).
So the Euro has dropped 7.9% relative to the USD - which is annoying Trump and his team.
But ! We've dropped 17.3% relative to the Euro, and 35% relative to the USD.
What reassures me is the massive trade surplus that we'll get due to our superior exporting power whilst our currency is temporarily under the pump
The IMF say the DM would be valued at $1.70, which compares to $1.07 or there abouts. It is currency manipulation by any other name.
I remember it used to be about 2.5-3 DMs to the pound.
3.6 when I lived in Germany in the mid 80's. Think it was 20 odd in the 60's. Interestingly 5ps used to work perfectly as 1DM in vending machines in the mid 80's - do the maths. So I was told (of course).
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
A strange thing for a conservative to say.
If I understand correctly, conservatives in the UK currently believe in a weak currency, increased government spending, a credit boom, increasing taxes, leaving free markets, and reducing debts by stoking inflation to inflate it away.
If you want to attach a generator to Thatcher's spinning body, I reckon we could generate a couple of megawatts.
Spending is still falling, just at a lower rate
I thought it was still increasing, just not by as much? Happy to be corrected if wrong.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
A strange thing for a conservative to say.
If I understand correctly, conservatives in the UK currently believe in a weak currency, increased government spending, a credit boom, increasing taxes, leaving free markets, and reducing debts by stoking inflation to inflate it away.
If you want to attach a generator to Thatcher's spinning body, I reckon we could generate a couple of megawatts.
Spending is still falling, just at a lower rate
I thought it was still increasing, just not by as much? Happy to be corrected if wrong.
So the Euro has dropped 7.9% relative to the USD - which is annoying Trump and his team.
But ! We've dropped 17.3% relative to the Euro, and 35% relative to the USD.
What reassures me is the massive trade surplus that we'll get due to our superior exporting power whilst our currency is temporarily under the pump
The IMF say the DM would be valued at $1.70, which compares to $1.07 or there abouts. It is currency manipulation by any other name.
I remember it used to be about 2.5-3 DMs to the pound.
3.6 when I lived in Germany in the mid 80's. Think it was 20 odd in the 60's. Interestingly 5ps used to work perfectly as 1DM in vending machines in the mid 80's - do the maths. So I was told (of course).
It is not the DM (or nominal equivalent) that has appreciated, it is the other currencies devaluing.
Sterling is tading at a trade weighted low. Indeed, depite the recent FTSE highs, the drop in Sterling makes the UK one of the worst places ito invest in equities.
I must say, as someone who is a genuine germanophile, this really is Germany at its worst.
They knew the Greeks should never have gone in to the Euro, but contrived to turn a blind eye
Now when its all gone tits up they have run from their repsonsibility to help them out of a mess they helped create and are piling endless misery on a helpless people
Appalling
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
That certainly has been the German mantra since the Second World War. Hard Mark/Euro. If you find it difficult to compete you reduce your costs or improve your product. They have been quite successful.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
A strange thing for a conservative to say.
Its true though. The paradox of thrift.
However on an individual level its better to be thrifty than profligate.
Whenever our economy starts to look like it's doing pretty well we all spend and borrow money like it's going out of fashion. Always.
That goes for both HMG and individual Brits.
One begins to think it's cultural.
Indeed. A little bit of wage growth and we never hear the word "deficit" any more.
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody Germans, combining a high wage, manufacturing economy with liberal democracy. Breaks all the rules of the protectionist nationalists.
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
That certainly has been the German mantra since the Second World War. Hard Mark/Euro. If you find it difficult to compete you reduce your costs or improve your product. They have been quite successful.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
I have been mildly tickled by the Spiegel anti-Trump, anti-Putin and anti-Brexit rhetoric, recently.
Not saying I dig it, but it wasn't exactly an unambiguous success the last time the Germans dominated Europe and went up against the US, UK and Russia all at the same time.
Except things are very different now, indeed roles are reversed, with Germany (and other parts of the EU) being anti-militarist, pro capitalist, liberal, democracies, with the militaristic protectionist autocrats in the other corner. Big difference.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
A strange thing for a conservative to say.
If I understand correctly, conservatives in the UK currently believe in a weak currency, increased government spending, a credit boom, increasing taxes, leaving free markets, and reducing debts by stoking inflation to inflate it away.
If you want to attach a generator to Thatcher's spinning body, I reckon we could generate a couple of megawatts.
Spending is still falling, just at a lower rate
I thought it was still increasing, just not by as much? Happy to be corrected if wrong.
As a percentage of gdp it is falling
Ah, we're back to relative/percentages vs absolute values again. If my height increases by one inch, but everybody else's height increase by two inches, is it more accurate to describe my height to have increased (in an absolute sense it has) or decreased (in a relative sense, it has)
So the Euro has dropped 7.9% relative to the USD - which is annoying Trump and his team.
But ! We've dropped 17.3% relative to the Euro, and 35% relative to the USD.
What reassures me is the massive trade surplus that we'll get due to our superior exporting power whilst our currency is temporarily under the pump
The IMF say the DM would be valued at $1.70, which compares to $1.07 or there abouts. It is currency manipulation by any other name.
I remember it used to be about 2.5-3 DMs to the pound.
3.6 when I lived in Germany in the mid 80's. Think it was 20 odd in the 60's. Interestingly 5ps used to work perfectly as 1DM in vending machines in the mid 80's - do the maths. So I was told (of course).
It is not the DM (or nominal equivalent) that has appreciated, it is the other currencies devaluing.
Sterling is tading at a trade weighted low. Indeed, depite the recent FTSE highs, the drop in Sterling makes the UK one of the worst places ito invest in equities.
Internationally that may well be so. But if your liabilities in a pension scheme are in Sterling a rise in the FTSE100 as a result of a fall in Sterling is still an unalloyed good thing. I'm still waiting for interest rates to rise as a result of the Pound falling, but I'm hopeful.
Thats what a real economy looks like, not one based on people lashing up their credit cards in nail bars.
Bloody Germans, combining a high wage, manufacturing economy with liberal democracy. Breaks all the rules of the protectionist nationalists.
Yes. All it took was impoverishing Southern Europe and locking in a 40% undervaluation in their currency. Dick.
Serial devaluation and inflation solves no problems, as we will shortly find out.
Are you thick or just being obtuse on purpose? Since you're a doctor I'm hoping it isn't the former.
serial devaluation has never been a marker of economic succes. There is no short cut to virtue.
That successful.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
I have been mildly tickled by the Spiegel anti-Trump, anti-Putin and anti-Brexit rhetoric, recently.
Not saying I dig it, but it wasn't exactly an unambiguous success the last time the Germans dominated Europe and went up against the US, UK and Russia all at the same time.
Except things are very different now, indeed roles are reversed, with Germany (and other parts of the EU) being anti-militarist, pro capitalist, liberal, democracies, with the militaristic protectionist autocrats in the other corner. Big difference.
Lol. The Allies are the Nazis now.
Got it.
Nope. But it is equally ridiculous to depict the current Germany as Nazi. Germany has a political, economic and social system that we should emulate.
That's true. But, if everyone behaved like Germany, no one would prosper.
A strange thing for a conservative to say.
If I understand correctly, conservatives in the UK currently believe in a weak currency, increased government spending, a credit boom, increasing taxes, leaving free markets, and reducing debts by stoking inflation to inflate it away.
If you want to attach a generator to Thatcher's spinning body, I reckon we could generate a couple of megawatts.
Spending is still falling, just at a lower rate
I thought it was still increasing, just not by as much? Happy to be corrected if wrong.
As a percentage of gdp it is falling
Ah, we're back to relative/percentages vs absolute values again. If my height increases by one inch, but everybody else's height increase by two inches, is it more accurate to describe my height to have increased (in an absolute sense it has) or decreased (in a relative sense, it has)
Percentage of gdp is the key because is the economy is growing faster than any spending increase you can more than pay it off, the key is to get spending as a percentage of gdp closer to the 36.9% of gdp the UK receives in tax as it was in the 1990s
Really will be fascinating to see if the LDs get even half the boosts they're getting in some of these isolated by-elections (turnouts are low, but not necessarily much lower than you get in the May locals a lot of the time).
Sadly, my council will not be counting overnight, for shame. And they counted the PCC elections overnight!
Is our own MarqueeMark in the QT audience this evening?
Oh god what a line up...jahadi Claire, Owen thingy, billy Bragg and failed dancer Ann widdy.
Indeed. I think Anne Widdecombe will be the most in touch with the common ground of Torbay...
It seems QT, like newsnight, really struggle to book leading politicians outside a very small group eg naughty nige, lady Nugee.
Ann Widdecombe was pretty senior but the top Cabinet Ministers are almost never on outside election time as they have other things to do
I am pretty certain QT back in the day used to be (shadow) ministers (of some rank) + journo + business leader / religious person / think tank. Newsnight definitely used to have minister or shadow on every night, where as now nobody ever appears on that show.
There was a really good freakonomics episode with a labour economist talking about globalisation and how politicians (and economists) have for far too long just looked at things like GDP and gone we are doing great and those that lost out to an industry moving to lower cost economy will simply retrain and move to new jobs...the guy explains why this has been flawed thinking and why we got trump etc.
James Goldsmith was saying essentially that over 20 years ago, but because of who he was, and his anti-EU and anti-Euro stances, he was seen as a crank by almost all of the political and media establishment. The amazing thing to me having never read what he said until relatively recently was how "left wing" his analysis of the likely effects of globalisation was, you could virtually put his words in the mouth of the most right-on liberal and it would sound natural.
I certainly agree about the obsession with GDP — which goes in hand with neatly ignoring population changes, income distribution, and individuals experiences — to paint a far rosier picture than is deserved.
None of this is to say that we should turn the clock back, but we should certainly treat with some scepticism the idea that free trade and globalisation are inherently good.
Are we all watching bbc2 take on the rise of popularism across the EU?
No. I am watching YouTube on replacing standing rigging and the advantages of hi-mod fittings over rod-rigging
Who'd have thought putting up a sex-swing was so complicated. Stick to hammocks, I say,
Sex swings??? If I catch you doing that on my boat I will bring you up with a round-turn and have you whipped with the spinnaker halyard. And you are not to enjoy it!!!
Sorry, ma'am. Won't do it again, ma'am. Discipline me if you must, but not with the cat 'o nine tails!
Although disqualified for non attendance , the Ratepayer in Fylde will be re elected easily . The Conservative plot to remove him will backfire on them badly .
Comments
it destroyed communism
released globalisation
reshaped global priorities
Western Europe still hasnt come to terms with its consequences
*I am happy to substitute left wing for Tory for the sake of balance.
@ Inception
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/the_launch_of_emu/euro_latest/245679.stm
£ / Eur 1.4175
EUR / USD 1.16675
Now we're at £ / Eur 1.1727
& Eur / USD 1.0748
So the Euro has dropped 7.9% relative to the USD - which is annoying Trump and his team.
But ! We've dropped 17.3% relative to the Euro, and 35% relative to the USD.
What reassures me is the massive trade surplus that we'll get due to our superior exporting power whilst our currency is temporarily under the pump
Aargh, my pedantry gene... Yes it was (altho' wasn't it 1.08?). But it should be pointed out that the $1.05/8 only lasted for a very short time, whereas the current malaise of GDP/USD has already gone on for some months now and isn't likely to improve between now and Article 50 in March Fair point, and although it should be said that GBP/EUR was around 1.4/1,5 for about 7 years before 2008, it has since then fluctuated greatly, and it's current 1.15 or thereabouts is awkward but not painful
But this just serves to highlight the extremity of GBP/USD: it hasn't been this low this long ever. It's closer to the 60's devaluation in terms of lasting effect than the ERM.
but the consequence is Germans are quite happy for Greece to sink into the sea
1) getting nothing when
2) Greece crashes out of the Euro and the currency rises
However on an individual level its better to be thrifty than profligate.
And a floor 5 and a half at the EU offices? Eh?
the new Drachma will rapidly depreciate
hard currency debts paid for by a weak currency wont work
Mrs Thatcher squeezed out inflation, in part by high interest rates pushing up the value of Sterling. Tough on many parts of Britain certainly, and I agree that tbere is anargument that the benefit was not worth the cost, but not totally dissimar to what is going on in Europe now.
The EU is already starting to crumble - one of it's biggest economies and most populous countries has just voted to bugger off.
It's like California leaving the USA or East Germany leaving the communist bloc.
Not saying I dig it, but it wasn't exactly an unambiguous success the last time the Germans dominated Europe and went up against the US, UK and Russia all at the same time.
If you want to attach a generator to Thatcher's spinning body, I reckon we could generate a couple of megawatts.
Hopefully when we do leave the EU those who can't be reconciled fuck off to Brussels and those who can will just get over it.
That goes for both HMG and individual Brits.
One begins to think it's cultural.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsCR05oKROA
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/09/clive-lewis-sounds-support-challenge-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader/
Sterling is tading at a trade weighted low. Indeed, depite the recent FTSE highs, the drop in Sterling makes the UK one of the worst places ito invest in equities.
Catchy though
Where's the revolution? Come on, people, you're letting me down.
Got it.
LDEM: 68.1% (+40.2)
CON: 30.1% (-20.9)
GRN: 1.8% (+1.8)
UKIP didn't stand this time round.
LDEM: 68.1% (+40.2)
CON: 30.1% (-20.9)
GRN: 1.8% (+1.8)
UKIP didn't stand this time round
Sadly, my council will not be counting overnight, for shame. And they counted the PCC elections overnight!
No-one watches it either. I usually don't mind the Panel, it's the audience that makes me change channels.
I certainly agree about the obsession with GDP — which goes in hand with neatly ignoring population changes, income distribution, and individuals experiences — to paint a far rosier picture than is deserved.
None of this is to say that we should turn the clock back, but we should certainly treat with some scepticism the idea that free trade and globalisation are inherently good.