politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » LAB in lead with ICM amongst REMAIN voters – more poll numbers
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Strangely, the thing I most recall about Durham is an aspect of some of the lanes in its surrounding countryside. I had cycled up there from Bedford in 1984 to do a couple of weeks work, passing through York on the Sunday before its cathedral burnt from a lightning strike.OldKingCole said:
Lot to be said for Durham. Centre of the city is one of the finer places in U.K.HurstLlama said:
Thank you, Mr. Star. He was a stray who adopted us in 2002 and was, according to the vet, about six years old then. So he had a good innings. Aside from the first three weeks of our marriage, it is the first time in wife's life she has not had at least one cat about the place and I have to admit it does feel strange.Pulpstar said:
OhHurstLlama said:
Wotcha, Mr. Brooke. Got the decorators in, which makes life bloody grizzly and the cat died last month so Herself is still in mourning and moping around the house. Oh, and my back is giving me major gip (am having to use a stick on my morning walk). On the bright side the local off-licence is doing a deal, a litre of The Grouse for seventeen quid, so at least the pain-killer is cheap, and my son hasn't asked for money for a good three weeks. On the whole, mustn't grumble,Alanbrooke said:
Mr LHurstLlama said:
Also chocolate and beer. Not to mention the cheapest cigars in Western Europe, inventing mayonnaise with chips and being able to run reasonably successfully without an elected government.Alanbrooke said:
Belgium - famous for sexual deviancyScott_P said:
@JasonGroves1: George Osborne missed tonight's Brexit vote despite a three-line whip. Giving a speech on Brexit in Antwerp apparently...Alanbrooke said:probably enjoying a lash of the whip elsewhere
All told Belgium has some good things going for it. Shame the place is such a dump.
good evening, hope 2017 is treating you well
Sad to hear about your kitty ;[
However, the big downside is that Herself is talking about using this feline interregnum as a chance for us to going travelling. Together! She has already fixed up a mini-break in Durham in April and is talking about a cruise! I need to find a couple of stray cats quickly.
On a half day off I did about 40 odd miles around part of Durham's surrounding countryside. Once or twice I came upon a convergence of five or six(?) small lanes in a star pattern in the middle of quite isolated open land. Durham has Roman connections, so maybe there was a temple there. Or what? I've not seen that pattern before or since.0 -
And a pretty nice Vale.Charles said:
Lots of sheep thoughwasd said:
There is no easily extractable coal or ore within a reasonable distance of York.Charles said:
May be excessive dominance of the local area by the church stunted growth?another_richard said:
Its interesting how almost all of the great medieval cathedrals are now in small to middle sized cities and towns - Durham, York, Lincoln, Wells, Winchester, Salisbury.
If they were being built now they would be located in big cities and consequently lose their grandeur.0 -
Amusingly, despite being a supposed "right-winger", Frank was one of the loudest critics of Harriet Harman when she wanted to abstain on the Tories' Welfare Bill a few years ago. I also went to a gathering with him a few years ago where he sounded positively Corbyn-esque on some economic issues, particularly how selfish he thought a lot of big corporations were.NickPalmer said:
Frank wouldn't fit in the Tory party - for example, he believes passionately in universal benefits. He's sui generis.Sean_F said:
Frank Field probably ought to be a Tory, but the rest are hardly right wing.surbiton said:
Why the fuck do they not join the Tories as they are just that ?Richard_Tyndall said:
All long time Eurosceptics and members of the Labour Safeguards group.dr_spyn said:0 -
Who were the Labour & Tory abstentions?MikeL said:Full Division lists out for Chris Leslie amendment.
7 Con MPs voted against Govt: Heidi Allen, Clarke, Neill, Perry, Sandbach, Soubry, Tyrie
2 UUP voted against Govt
6 Lab MPs voted with Govt - as posted earlier
7 DUP MPs + Carswell voted with Govt
Abstentions: 9 Con, 11 Lab, 1 DUP
Govt won by 33.
So Govt would have lost if all Lab + DUP voted against them.
But not if just all Lab voted against them - then Govt still win by 10 - ie would be saved by DUP.
But big picture is that it's the Lab MPs voting with the Govt that make it comfortable - without them it would be close to being tense.0 -
That might be a factor.Charles said:
May be excessive dominance of the local area by the church stunted growth?another_richard said:
Its interesting how almost all of the great medieval cathedrals are now in small to middle sized cities and towns - Durham, York, Lincoln, Wells, Winchester, Salisbury.Sean_F said:
Durham is great. A fabulous Cathedral, a fine city centre, and Cafe Rouge on the bridge over the Wear.OldKingCole said:
Lot to be said for Durham. Centre of the city is one of the finer places in U.K.HurstLlama said:
Thank you, Mr. Star. He was a stray who adopted us in 2002 and was, according to the vet, about six years old then. So he had a good innings. Aside from the first three weeks of our marriage, it is the first time in wife's life she has not had at least one cat about the place and I have to admit it does feel strange.Pulpstar said:
OhHurstLlama said:
Wotcha, Mr. Brooke. Got the decorators in, which makes life bloody grizzly and the cat died last month so Herself is still in mourning and moping around the house. Oh, and my back is giving me major gip (am having to use a stick on my morning walk). On the bright side the local off-licence is doing a deal, a litre of The Grouse for seventeen quid, so at least the pain-killer is cheap, and my son hasn't asked for money for a good three weeks. On the whole, mustn't grumble,
Sad to hear about your kitty ;[
However, the big downside is that Herself is talking about using this feline interregnum as a chance for us to going travelling. Together! She has already fixed up a mini-break in Durham in April and is talking about a cruise! I need to find a couple of stray cats quickly.
If they were being built now they would be located in big cities and consequently lose their grandeur.
Geography and geology are too - the big cities are based either on coalfields or ports.
But thinking of European cathedrals which are famous - Cologne, Barcelona, Milan, Florence, Venice - there does seem to be a higher number in big cities. Perhaps because big cities formed earlier in Europe or that the big cities of today are the same as those in the Middle Ages.
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Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/8290558708143226900 -
Try going and reading what Cummings actually wrote. He said there were three key issues combined that contributed to the win. The £350/NHS was one of them.Theuniondivvie said:Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/829055870814322690
We covered this all when Cummings wrote it in his blog 2 weeks ago.0 -
Field is an old fashioned socialist who is wiling to think outside the box for the benefit of his constituents and his country rather than simply trotting out the party line because of party politics.Danny565 said:
Amusingly, despite being a supposed "right-winger", Frank was one of the loudest critics of Harriet Harman when she wanted to abstain on the Tories' Welfare Bill a few years ago. I also went to a gathering with him a few years ago where he sounded positively Corbyn-esque on some economic issues, particularly how selfish he thought a lot of big corporations were.NickPalmer said:
Frank wouldn't fit in the Tory party - for example, he believes passionately in universal benefits. He's sui generis.Sean_F said:
Frank Field probably ought to be a Tory, but the rest are hardly right wing.surbiton said:
Why the fuck do they not join the Tories as they are just that ?Richard_Tyndall said:
All long time Eurosceptics and members of the Labour Safeguards group.dr_spyn said:
I could vote for him as my MP even if I disagreed with a fair amount of his views because I genuinely believe everything he does he does for the best for his constituents.
Edit: Oh and Surbiton continues to prove yet again what a complete and utter tosser he is.0 -
All things considered it was a fluke that relied on an unscrupulous Leave campaign, an incompetent Remain campaign and a series of unrepeatable circumstances.Richard_Tyndall said:
Try going and reading what Cummings actually wrote. He said there were three key issues combined that contributed to the win. The £350/NHS was one of them.Theuniondivvie said:Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/829055870814322690
We covered this all when Cummings wrote it in his blog 2 weeks ago.0 -
Yes, he's a good man in politics for the right reasons. That he is still around after the way Blair treated him as welfare reform minister in 1998 is a credit to him.Richard_Tyndall said:
Field is an old fashioned socialist who is wiling to think outside the box for the benefit of his constituents and his country rather than simply trotting out the party line because of party politics.Danny565 said:
Amusingly, despite being a supposed "right-winger", Frank was one of the loudest critics of Harriet Harman when she wanted to abstain on the Tories' Welfare Bill a few years ago. I also went to a gathering with him a few years ago where he sounded positively Corbyn-esque on some economic issues, particularly how selfish he thought a lot of big corporations were.NickPalmer said:
Frank wouldn't fit in the Tory party - for example, he believes passionately in universal benefits. He's sui generis.Sean_F said:
Frank Field probably ought to be a Tory, but the rest are hardly right wing.surbiton said:
Why the fuck do they not join the Tories as they are just that ?Richard_Tyndall said:
All long time Eurosceptics and members of the Labour Safeguards group.dr_spyn said:
I could vote for him as my MP even if I disagreed with a fair amount of his views because I genuinely believe everything he does he does for the best for his constituents.
Edit: Oh and Surbiton continues to prove yet again what a complete and utter tosser he is.0 -
I would have thought that the great cathedrals (and major churches) were built in the most prosperous areas at the time they were built. The industrial revolution changed that in the UK, what had been quiet backwaters became cities and the location of wealth moved accordingly. The effect was less pronounced in Europe because England industrialised first.another_richard said:
That might be a factor.
Geography and geology are too - the big cities are based either on coalfields or ports.
But thinking of European cathedrals which are famous - Cologne, Barcelona, Milan, Florence, Venice - there does seem to be a higher number in big cities. Perhaps because big cities formed earlier in Europe or that the big cities of today are the same as those in the Middle Ages.
Go to Suffolk for example, there are quite small towns with magnificent churches far too big for any population in recent times. However, five or six centuries ago those towns were very wealthy on the back of the wool trade. The same can be said of a lot of our great cathedral cities, they were the centres of an agrarian economy often dating back to pre-Roman times.0 -
You would starve to death within 2 weeks.Jobabob said:Why doesn't the nation just realign on Leave/Remain lines? We'll have Greater London, the Cotswolds, all of Scotland, Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle. Leave can have Doncaster and the rest.
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Which gives the lie to the oft repeated claim that England is full.HurstLlama said:
Go to Suffolk for example, there are quite small towns with magnificent churches far too big for any population in recent times.another_richard said:
That might be a factor.
Geography and geology are too - the big cities are based either on coalfields or ports.
But thinking of European cathedrals which are famous - Cologne, Barcelona, Milan, Florence, Venice - there does seem to be a higher number in big cities. Perhaps because big cities formed earlier in Europe or that the big cities of today are the same as those in the Middle Ages.0 -
Sounds like almost every important event in history.williamglenn said:
All things considered it was a fluke that relied on an unscrupulous Leave campaign, an incompetent Remain campaign and a series of unrepeatable circumstances.Richard_Tyndall said:
Try going and reading what Cummings actually wrote. He said there were three key issues combined that contributed to the win. The £350/NHS was one of them.Theuniondivvie said:Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/829055870814322690
We covered this all when Cummings wrote it in his blog 2 weeks ago.0 -
The protectionism of EEA Brexitstan revealed in all its naked glory!Richard_Tyndall said:
You would starve to death within 2 weeks.Jobabob said:Why doesn't the nation just realign on Leave/Remain lines? We'll have Greater London, the Cotswolds, all of Scotland, Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle. Leave can have Doncaster and the rest.
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On the contrary. The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable. The fact that they lost despite these advantages shows their proposition was unsellable, even by the most able politicians of their generation. I cannot conceive of the question ever being that close again.williamglenn said:
All things considered it was a fluke that relied on an unscrupulous Leave campaign, an incompetent Remain campaign and a series of unrepeatable circumstances.Richard_Tyndall said:
Try going and reading what Cummings actually wrote. He said there were three key issues combined that contributed to the win. The £350/NHS was one of them.Theuniondivvie said:Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/829055870814322690
We covered this all when Cummings wrote it in his blog 2 weeks ago.0 -
LOL.DavidL said:
On the contrary. The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable. The fact that they lost despite these advantages shows their proposition was unsellable, even by the most able politicians of their generation. I cannot conceive of the question ever being that close again.williamglenn said:
All things considered it was a fluke that relied on an unscrupulous Leave campaign, an incompetent Remain campaign and a series of unrepeatable circumstances.Richard_Tyndall said:
Try going and reading what Cummings actually wrote. He said there were three key issues combined that contributed to the win. The £350/NHS was one of them.Theuniondivvie said:Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/829055870814322690
We covered this all when Cummings wrote it in his blog 2 weeks ago.0 -
More likely England was more religious in past centuries.williamglenn said:
Which gives the lie to the oft repeated claim that England is full.HurstLlama said:
Go to Suffolk for example, there are quite small towns with magnificent churches far too big for any population in recent times.another_richard said:
That might be a factor.
Geography and geology are too - the big cities are based either on coalfields or ports.
But thinking of European cathedrals which are famous - Cologne, Barcelona, Milan, Florence, Venice - there does seem to be a higher number in big cities. Perhaps because big cities formed earlier in Europe or that the big cities of today are the same as those in the Middle Ages.0 -
TSE
If you have time perhaps you might care to take a look at the latest ICM tables.
A few commentators have expressed doubts about the adjustments made to take account of Don't Knows and Total Refusals. Personally I think it rather dangerous to assume that because those groups appear to have split substantially in the Tories' favour in 2015 that such a pattern is likely to be permanent and on going.
I am also puzzled by the Net England data in their tables. This does seem to match the Totals of the English Regions listed.0 -
I don't think it soley that populations have dropped, Churches were often built larger than needed. Partly it was civic boosterism, to outshine the neighbours, partly as a form of outdoor relief for the parish poor. A lot of British churches were underfilled in their heyday and a burden on their parish.HurstLlama said:
I would have thought that the great cathedrals (and major churches) were built in the most prosperous areas at the time they were built. The industrial revolution changed that in the UK, what had been quiet backwaters became cities and the location of wealth moved accordingly. The effect was less pronounced in Europe because England industrialised first.another_richard said:
That might be a factor.
Geography and geology are too - the big cities are based either on coalfields or ports.
But thinking of European cathedrals which are famous - Cologne, Barcelona, Milan, Florence, Venice - there does seem to be a higher number in big cities. Perhaps because big cities formed earlier in Europe or that the big cities of today are the same as those in the Middle Ages.
Go to Suffolk for example, there are quite small towns with magnificent churches far too big for any population in recent times. However, five or six centuries ago those towns were very wealthy on the back of the wool trade. The same can be said of a lot of our great cathedral cities, they were the centres of an agrarian economy often dating back to pre-Roman times.
I think the same goes for other countries too. I visited the Blue Mosque in Istanbul last year, and even on a Friday there were no more than a couple of dozen praying.0 -
Well maybe that wasn't the highest bar to get over.Danny565 said:
LOL.DavidL said:
On the contrary. The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable. The fact that they lost despite these advantages shows their proposition was unsellable, even by the most able politicians of their generation. I cannot conceive of the question ever being that close again.williamglenn said:
All things considered it was a fluke that relied on an unscrupulous Leave campaign, an incompetent Remain campaign and a series of unrepeatable circumstances.Richard_Tyndall said:
Try going and reading what Cummings actually wrote. He said there were three key issues combined that contributed to the win. The £350/NHS was one of them.Theuniondivvie said:Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/829055870814322690
We covered this all when Cummings wrote it in his blog 2 weeks ago.0 -
Luckily we're taking control of all those Europeans coming over here, filling up our churches...Sean_F said:
More likely England was more religious in past centuries.williamglenn said:
Which gives the lie to the oft repeated claim that England is full.HurstLlama said:
Go to Suffolk for example, there are quite small towns with magnificent churches far too big for any population in recent times.another_richard said:
That might be a factor.
Geography and geology are too - the big cities are based either on coalfields or ports.
But thinking of European cathedrals which are famous - Cologne, Barcelona, Milan, Florence, Venice - there does seem to be a higher number in big cities. Perhaps because big cities formed earlier in Europe or that the big cities of today are the same as those in the Middle Ages.0 -
Cooper's problem was that he was a bad pollster.Theuniondivvie said:Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/8290558708143226900 -
Daily Politics yesterday quoted the figure that 2% of UK land is golf courses, 1% is housingwilliamglenn said:Which gives the lie to the oft repeated claim that England is full.
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No just my own personal spite. I never said I was a nice person. If you want a civil war I would be very happy to give you one.williamglenn said:
The protectionism of EEA Brexitstan revealed in all its naked glory!Richard_Tyndall said:
You would starve to death within 2 weeks.Jobabob said:Why doesn't the nation just realign on Leave/Remain lines? We'll have Greater London, the Cotswolds, all of Scotland, Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle. Leave can have Doncaster and the rest.
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Remainerstan gets the nukes...Richard_Tyndall said:No just my own personal spite. I never said I was a nice person. If you want a civil war I would be very happy to give you one.
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Not at all. The population was no bigger then. It was just that there was more disposable wealth in the hands of local individuals who wanted to make their mark on their community instead of spending it on yachts and islands.williamglenn said:
Which gives the lie to the oft repeated claim that England is full.HurstLlama said:
Go to Suffolk for example, there are quite small towns with magnificent churches far too big for any population in recent times.another_richard said:
That might be a factor.
Geography and geology are too - the big cities are based either on coalfields or ports.
But thinking of European cathedrals which are famous - Cologne, Barcelona, Milan, Florence, Venice - there does seem to be a higher number in big cities. Perhaps because big cities formed earlier in Europe or that the big cities of today are the same as those in the Middle Ages.0 -
Much as I am getting very uneasy with her actual policies, would you not say May is proving to be a more talented politician (or salesperson) than Cameron ever was, and certainly moreso than Osborne?DavidL said:
Well maybe that wasn't the highest bar to get over.Danny565 said:
LOL.DavidL said:
On the contrary. The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable. The fact that they lost despite these advantages shows their proposition was unsellable, even by the most able politicians of their generation. I cannot conceive of the question ever being that close again.williamglenn said:
All things considered it was a fluke that relied on an unscrupulous Leave campaign, an incompetent Remain campaign and a series of unrepeatable circumstances.Richard_Tyndall said:
Try going and reading what Cummings actually wrote. He said there were three key issues combined that contributed to the win. The £350/NHS was one of them.Theuniondivvie said:Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/829055870814322690
We covered this all when Cummings wrote it in his blog 2 weeks ago.0 -
Hmm. You don't really get this civil war idea do you.Scott_P said:
Remainerstan gets the nukes...Richard_Tyndall said:No just my own personal spite. I never said I was a nice person. If you want a civil war I would be very happy to give you one.
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May is courting the headbangers that undid Cameron.Danny565 said:Much as I am getting very uneasy with her actual policies, would you not say May is proving to be a more talented politician (or salesperson) than Cameron ever was, and certainly moreso than Osborne?
That doesn't require talent. Or conviction.0 -
Toms said:OldKingCole said:
Very impressed. How many miles did you cycle to get there?HurstLlama said:
Strangely, the thing I most recall about Durham is an aspect of some of the lanes in its surrounding countryside. I had cycled up there from Bedford in 1984 to do a couple of weeks work, passing through York on the Sunday before its cathedral burnt from a lightning strike.Pulpstar said:
Lot to be said for Durham. Centre of the city is one of the finer places in U.K.HurstLlama said:
WAlanbrooke said:
Mr LHurstLlama said:
Also chocolate and beer. Not to mention the cheapest cigars in Western Europe, inventing mayonnaise with chips and being able to run reasonably successfully without an elected government.Alanbrooke said:
Belgium - famous for sexual deviancyScott_P said:
@JasonGroves1: George Osborne missed tonight's Brexit vote despite a three-line whip. Giving a speech on Brexit in Antwerp apparently...Alanbrooke said:probably enjoying a lash of the whip elsewhere
All told Belgium has some good things going for it. Shame the place is such a dump.
good evening, hope 2017 is treating you well
However, the big downside is that Herself is talking about using this feline interregnum as a chance for us to going travelling. Together! She has already fixed up a mini-break in Durham in April and is talking about a cruise! I need to find a couple of stray cats quickly.
On a half day off I did about 40 odd miles around part of Durham's surrounding countryside. Once or twice I came upon a convergence of five or six(?) small lanes in a star pattern in the middle of quite isolated open land. Durham has Roman connections, so maybe there was a temple there. Or what? I've not seen that pattern before or since.0 -
Clare is very nice:HurstLlama said:
I would have thought that the great cathedrals (and major churches) were built in the most prosperous areas at the time they were built. The industrial revolution changed that in the UK, what had been quiet backwaters became cities and the location of wealth moved accordingly. The effect was less pronounced in Europe because England industrialised first.another_richard said:
That might be a factor.
Geography and geology are too - the big cities are based either on coalfields or ports.
But thinking of European cathedrals which are famous - Cologne, Barcelona, Milan, Florence, Venice - there does seem to be a higher number in big cities. Perhaps because big cities formed earlier in Europe or that the big cities of today are the same as those in the Middle Ages.
Go to Suffolk for example, there are quite small towns with magnificent churches far too big for any population in recent times. However, five or six centuries ago those towns were very wealthy on the back of the wool trade. The same can be said of a lot of our great cathedral cities, they were the centres of an agrarian economy often dating back to pre-Roman times.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clare,_Suffolk
Churches built in the 14th and 15th centuries are often based upon wool money.0 -
I'd agree with this. Given that she's the one who first had the guts to make the Tories face up to their nasty party image it's a tragedy in retrospect that someone as shallow as Cameron benefited from Howard's patronage to make his way to Downing Street.Danny565 said:
Much as I am getting very uneasy with her actual policies, would you not say May is proving to be a more talented politician (or salesperson) than Cameron ever was, and certainly moreso than Osborne?DavidL said:
Well maybe that wasn't the highest bar to get over.Danny565 said:
LOL.DavidL said:
On the contrary. The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable. The fact that they lost despite these advantages shows their proposition was unsellable, even by the most able politicians of their generation. I cannot conceive of the question ever being that close again.williamglenn said:
All things considered it was a fluke that relied on an unscrupulous Leave campaign, an incompetent Remain campaign and a series of unrepeatable circumstances.Richard_Tyndall said:
Try going and reading what Cummings actually wrote. He said there were three key issues combined that contributed to the win. The £350/NHS was one of them.Theuniondivvie said:Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/829055870814322690
We covered this all when Cummings wrote it in his blog 2 weeks ago.0 -
London, Scotland and France vs the rest isn't much of a contest.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hmm. You don't really get this civil war idea do you.Scott_P said:
Remainerstan gets the nukes...Richard_Tyndall said:No just my own personal spite. I never said I was a nice person. If you want a civil war I would be very happy to give you one.
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They set the agenda by negotiating the deal. They had the government and used it ruthlessly not just in funding their brochure but in various government announcements. They had a dominant and successful PM. They had the support of all the mainstream parties. And nearly all the unions. And the electronic media. They had Nigel Farage and assorted nutters on the other side. They had the CBI and most of industry that spoke out. There really are no excuses. They should have won easily and would have done so if their case hung together at all.Scott_P said:
History shows that remain had no advantage whatsoever. Hence the result.DavidL said:The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable.
Leave pitched "control of immigration"
Remain had no advantage whatsoever in countering that.0 -
Fair go, Doc. It is not so much that populations have dropped as the wealth in the area that has gone down. Please remember that in pre-reformation England giving money/land to the church was seen as a way of quite literally buying "grace" and chantry chapels with attendant priests were a way of reducing one's time in purgatory. So churches in wealthy areas were made bigger and expanded over time as the wealthy residents "paid their way".foxinsoxuk said:
I don't think it soley that populations have dropped, Churches were often built larger than needed. Partly it was civic boosterism, to outshine the neighbours, partly as a form of outdoor relief for the parish poor. A lot of British churches were underfilled in their heyday and a burden on their parish.HurstLlama said:
I would have thought that the great cathedrals (and major churches) were built in the most prosperous areas at the time they were built. The industrial revolution changed that in the UK, what had been quiet backwaters became cities and the location of wealth moved accordingly. The effect was less pronounced in Europe because England industrialised first.another_richard said:
That might be a factor.
Geography and geology are too - the big cities are based either on coalfields or ports.
But thinking of European cathedrals which are famous - Cologne, Barcelona, Milan, Florence, Venice - there does seem to be a higher number in big cities. Perhaps because big cities formed earlier in Europe or that the big cities of today are the same as those in the Middle Ages.
Go to Suffolk for example, there are quite small towns with magnificent churches far too big for any population in recent times. However, five or six centuries ago those towns were very wealthy on the back of the wool trade. The same can be said of a lot of our great cathedral cities, they were the centres of an agrarian economy often dating back to pre-Roman times.
I think the same goes for other countries too. I visited the Blue Mosque in Istanbul last year, and even on a Friday there were no more than a couple of dozen praying.
With the reformation all that was swept away and then, a couple of centuries later came the industrial revolution, which shifted wealth away from the old cities and into the new ones. Who now, for example, thinks of Winchester as a major city? Yet it was for more than a thousand years one of England's most important centres.0 -
It would have been a 10-15 point Leave win without Mairwilliamglenn said:
All things considered it was a fluke that relied on an unscrupulous Leave campaign, an incompetent Remain campaign and a series of unrepeatable circumstances.Richard_Tyndall said:
Try going and reading what Cummings actually wrote. He said there were three key issues combined that contributed to the win. The £350/NHS was one of them.Theuniondivvie said:Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/829055870814322690
We covered this all when Cummings wrote it in his blog 2 weeks ago.0 -
So much so he made a material difference to Remain losing the referendum.Sean_F said:
Cooper's problem was that he was a bad pollster.Theuniondivvie said:Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/829055870814322690
I thought Remain would squeak it but even i laughed (in real time) at his eve of poll analysis when it was published on polling day.0 -
And none of these were advantageous.DavidL said:They set the agenda by negotiating the deal. They had the government and used it ruthlessly not just in funding their brochure but in various government announcements. They had a dominant and successful PM. They had the support of all the mainstream parties. And nearly all the unions. And the electronic media. They had Nigel Farage and assorted nutters on the other side. They had the CBI and most of industry that spoke out.
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Which is of course rubbishScott_P said:
Daily Politics yesterday quoted the figure that 2% of UK land is golf courses, 1% is housingwilliamglenn said:Which gives the lie to the oft repeated claim that England is full.
http://blogs.ft.com/ftdata/2016/10/24/ft-factcheck-do-we-use-more-land-for-golf-courses-than-we-do-for-homes/
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Nope. Not even close.Danny565 said:
Much as I am getting very uneasy with her actual policies, would you not say May is proving to be a more talented politician (or salesperson) than Cameron ever was, and certainly moreso than Osborne?DavidL said:
Well maybe that wasn't the highest bar to get over.Danny565 said:
LOL.DavidL said:
On the contrary. The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable. The fact that they lost despite these advantages shows their proposition was unsellable, even by the most able politicians of their generation. I cannot conceive of the question ever being that close again.williamglenn said:
All things considered it was a fluke that relied on an unscrupulous Leave campaign, an incompetent Remain campaign and a series of unrepeatable circumstances.Richard_Tyndall said:
Try going and reading what Cummings actually wrote. He said there were three key issues combined that contributed to the win. The £350/NHS was one of them.Theuniondivvie said:Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/829055870814322690
We covered this all when Cummings wrote it in his blog 2 weeks ago.0 -
They were trying to polish a turd.DavidL said:
They set the agenda by negotiating the deal. They had the government and used it ruthlessly not just in funding their brochure but in various government announcements. They had a dominant and successful PM. They had the support of all the mainstream parties. And nearly all the unions. And the electronic media. They had Nigel Farage and assorted nutters on the other side. They had the CBI and most of industry that spoke out. There really are no excuses. They should have won easily and would have done so if their case hung together at all.Scott_P said:
History shows that remain had no advantage whatsoever. Hence the result.DavidL said:The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable.
Leave pitched "control of immigration"
Remain had no advantage whatsoever in countering that.
0 -
You can't polish a turd can you (unless it is fossilised, apparently).Scott_P said:
And none of these were advantageous.DavidL said:They set the agenda by negotiating the deal. They had the government and used it ruthlessly not just in funding their brochure but in various government announcements. They had a dominant and successful PM. They had the support of all the mainstream parties. And nearly all the unions. And the electronic media. They had Nigel Farage and assorted nutters on the other side. They had the CBI and most of industry that spoke out.
0 -
Remain had no real answer to the specific issue of immigration.Scott_P said:
History shows that remain had no advantage whatsoever. Hence the result.DavidL said:The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable.
Leave pitched "control of immigration"
Remain had no advantage whatsoever in countering that.
That's very different from saying Remain had no advantage whatsoever: in fact, the advantages it had were overwhelming.0 -
Nah, the nits would kick you out and they'd go to Plymouth (which voted Leave)Scott_P said:
Remainerstan gets the nukes...Richard_Tyndall said:No just my own personal spite. I never said I was a nice person. If you want a civil war I would be very happy to give you one.
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Snap!Sean_F said:
They were trying to polish a turd.DavidL said:
They set the agenda by negotiating the deal. They had the government and used it ruthlessly not just in funding their brochure but in various government announcements. They had a dominant and successful PM. They had the support of all the mainstream parties. And nearly all the unions. And the electronic media. They had Nigel Farage and assorted nutters on the other side. They had the CBI and most of industry that spoke out. There really are no excuses. They should have won easily and would have done so if their case hung together at all.Scott_P said:
History shows that remain had no advantage whatsoever. Hence the result.DavidL said:The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable.
Leave pitched "control of immigration"
Remain had no advantage whatsoever in countering that.0 -
Never adopting the Euro and opting out of ever closer union was an unattractive proposition indeed. I am glad it was rejected so that it can once again become a legitimate option for our future.Sean_F said:
They were trying to polish a turd.DavidL said:
They set the agenda by negotiating the deal. They had the government and used it ruthlessly not just in funding their brochure but in various government announcements. They had a dominant and successful PM. They had the support of all the mainstream parties. And nearly all the unions. And the electronic media. They had Nigel Farage and assorted nutters on the other side. They had the CBI and most of industry that spoke out. There really are no excuses. They should have won easily and would have done so if their case hung together at all.Scott_P said:
History shows that remain had no advantage whatsoever. Hence the result.DavidL said:The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable.
Leave pitched "control of immigration"
Remain had no advantage whatsoever in countering that.0 -
He lacked objectivity and told his side what they wanted to hear, rather than what they needed to know. His final forecast was complete rubbish.Casino_Royale said:
So much so he made a material difference to Remain losing the referendum.Sean_F said:
Cooper's problem was that he was a bad pollster.Theuniondivvie said:Presumably that's this issue pretty much settled?
https://twitter.com/AndrewCooper__/status/829055870814322690
I thought Remain would squeak it but even i laughed (in real time) at his eve of poll analysis when it was published on polling day.0 -
They had no advantage over "Turkey joining the EU' or "£350m for the NHS"Casino_Royale said:Remain had no real answer to the specific issue of immigration.
That's very different from saying Remain had no advantage whatsoever: in fact, the advantages it had were overwhelming.
If "the advantages were overwhelming" we would not be having this discussion.
In the post-truth World of Trump, I am amazed anyone can still be claiming that remain had an advantage over a campaign of "alternative facts".0 -
I would have thought having Scotland and France on your side was a positive disadvantage.williamglenn said:
London, Scotland and France vs the rest isn't much of a contest.Richard_Tyndall said:
Hmm. You don't really get this civil war idea do you.Scott_P said:
Remainerstan gets the nukes...Richard_Tyndall said:No just my own personal spite. I never said I was a nice person. If you want a civil war I would be very happy to give you one.
0 -
Just saw a Tory MP bury his head in hands on the news as Claire Perry dropped her jihadi bombshell in the Commons.
Idiotic. She'll live to regret that.0 -
You can, however, roll it in glitter.DavidL said:
You can't polish a turd can you (unless it is fossilised, apparently).Scott_P said:
And none of these were advantageous.DavidL said:They set the agenda by negotiating the deal. They had the government and used it ruthlessly not just in funding their brochure but in various government announcements. They had a dominant and successful PM. They had the support of all the mainstream parties. And nearly all the unions. And the electronic media. They had Nigel Farage and assorted nutters on the other side. They had the CBI and most of industry that spoke out.
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LOL. You keep up your quixotic tilting at windmills as much as you like William. The rest of us have already moved on. The UK will never join the Euro - indeed they will never rejoin the EU. For your own peace of mind you are just going to have to accept it.williamglenn said:
Never adopting the Euro and opting out of ever closer union was an unattractive proposition indeed. I am glad it was rejected so that it can once again become a legitimate option for our future.Sean_F said:
They were trying to polish a turd.DavidL said:
They set the agenda by negotiating the deal. They had the government and used it ruthlessly not just in funding their brochure but in various government announcements. They had a dominant and successful PM. They had the support of all the mainstream parties. And nearly all the unions. And the electronic media. They had Nigel Farage and assorted nutters on the other side. They had the CBI and most of industry that spoke out. There really are no excuses. They should have won easily and would have done so if their case hung together at all.Scott_P said:
History shows that remain had no advantage whatsoever. Hence the result.DavidL said:The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable.
Leave pitched "control of immigration"
Remain had no advantage whatsoever in countering that.0 -
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The Euro is already established on these British Isles. The rest is just salami slicing.Richard_Tyndall said:
LOL. You keep up your quixotic tilting at windmills as much as you like William. The rest of us have already moved on. The UK will never join the Euro - indeed they will never rejoin the EU. For your own peace of mind you are just going to have to accept it.williamglenn said:
Never adopting the Euro and opting out of ever closer union was an unattractive proposition indeed. I am glad it was rejected so that it can once again become a legitimate option for our future.Sean_F said:
They were trying to polish a turd.DavidL said:
They set the agenda by negotiating the deal. They had the government and used it ruthlessly not just in funding their brochure but in various government announcements. They had a dominant and successful PM. They had the support of all the mainstream parties. And nearly all the unions. And the electronic media. They had Nigel Farage and assorted nutters on the other side. They had the CBI and most of industry that spoke out. There really are no excuses. They should have won easily and would have done so if their case hung together at all.Scott_P said:
History shows that remain had no advantage whatsoever. Hence the result.DavidL said:The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable.
Leave pitched "control of immigration"
Remain had no advantage whatsoever in countering that.
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Yeah, but you and whose army?williamglenn said:
Never adopting the Euro and opting out of ever closer union was an unattractive proposition indeed. I am glad it was rejected so that it can once again become a legitimate option for our future.Sean_F said:
They were trying to polish a turd.DavidL said:
They set the agenda by negotiating the deal. They had the government and used it ruthlessly not just in funding their brochure but in various government announcements. They had a dominant and successful PM. They had the support of all the mainstream parties. And nearly all the unions. And the electronic media. They had Nigel Farage and assorted nutters on the other side. They had the CBI and most of industry that spoke out. There really are no excuses. They should have won easily and would have done so if their case hung together at all.Scott_P said:
History shows that remain had no advantage whatsoever. Hence the result.DavidL said:The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable.
Leave pitched "control of immigration"
Remain had no advantage whatsoever in countering that.
Sorry, William, it's hard not to respect you as you are genuinely sincere and open with your eurofederalism but this will be considered a rather eccentric view in the UK in future.0 -
Andrew Cooper certainly doesn't emerge with honours in Tim Shipman's riveting 'All Out War'.0
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You're entering the world of tautology.Scott_P said:
They had no advantage over "Turkey joining the EU' or "£350m for the NHS"Casino_Royale said:Remain had no real answer to the specific issue of immigration.
That's very different from saying Remain had no advantage whatsoever: in fact, the advantages it had were overwhelming.
If "the advantages were overwhelming" we would not be having this discussion.
In the post-truth World of Trump, I am amazed anyone can still be claiming that remain had an advantage over a campaign of "alternative facts".
The fact that Leave won does not mean Remain did not have overwhelming advantages politically and economically.
The polling two months before the vote showed that, yet alone nine months before when it was looking like a 65:35 drubbing for Leave.0 -
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Are you upset that Remain's 'alternative facts' weren't believed ?Scott_P said:
They had no advantage over "Turkey joining the EU' or "£350m for the NHS"Casino_Royale said:Remain had no real answer to the specific issue of immigration.
That's very different from saying Remain had no advantage whatsoever: in fact, the advantages it had were overwhelming.
If "the advantages were overwhelming" we would not be having this discussion.
In the post-truth World of Trump, I am amazed anyone can still be claiming that remain had an advantage over a campaign of "alternative facts".
' This time last year, we said we would listen to people's concerns and get immigration under control.
Today I can confidently say that we are getting there.
If we take the steps set out today, and deal with all the different avenues of migration, legal and illegal, then levels of immigration can return to where they were in the 1980s and 90s, a time when immigration was not a front rank political issue.
And I believe that will mean net migration to this country will be in the order of tens of thousands each year, not the hundreds of thousands every year that we have seen over the last decade.
Yes, Britain will always be open to the best and brightest from around the world and those fleeing persecution.
But with us, our borders will be under control and immigration will be at levels our country can manage.
No ifs. No buts.
That's a promise we made to the British people. And it's a promise we are keeping. '
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13083781
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJRtDPOjQ7g0 -
We are as likely to join the Dollar as we are the Euro. Of course the Euro may well not be around long enough for us to join it even if we wanted to.williamglenn said:
The Euro is already established on these British Isles. The rest is just salami slicing.Richard_Tyndall said:
LOL. You keep up your quixotic tilting at windmills as much as you like William. The rest of us have already moved on. The UK will never join the Euro - indeed they will never rejoin the EU. For your own peace of mind you are just going to have to accept it.williamglenn said:
Never adopting the Euro and opting out of ever closer union was an unattractive proposition indeed. I am glad it was rejected so that it can once again become a legitimate option for our future.Sean_F said:
They were trying to polish a turd.DavidL said:
They set the agenda by negotiating the deal. They had the government and used it ruthlessly not just in funding their brochure but in various government announcements. They had a dominant and successful PM. They had the support of all the mainstream parties. And nearly all the unions. And the electronic media. They had Nigel Farage and assorted nutters on the other side. They had the CBI and most of industry that spoke out. There really are no excuses. They should have won easily and would have done so if their case hung together at all.Scott_P said:
History shows that remain had no advantage whatsoever. Hence the result.DavidL said:The advantages that remain had were immense and are unrepeatable.
Leave pitched "control of immigration"
Remain had no advantage whatsoever in countering that.0 -
Somewhere a village is missing its fishwife.Casino_Royale said:Just saw a Tory MP bury his head in hands on the news as Claire Perry dropped her jihadi bombshell in the Commons.
Idiotic. She'll live to regret that.
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You are trying to use polling to shore up your argument? Where have you been for the last 2 years...Casino_Royale said:The polling two months before the vote showed that, yet alone nine months before when it was looking like a 65:35 drubbing for Leave.
Remain had no advantages against the leave campaign.
"We have had enough of experts", ruled out many of the traditional "advantages"
And truth had no advantage over alternative facts.0 -
I wonder, should we file the Treasury analysis under alternative facts?Scott_P said:
You are trying to use polling to shore up your argument? Where have you been for the last 2 years...Casino_Royale said:The polling two months before the vote showed that, yet alone nine months before when it was looking like a 65:35 drubbing for Leave.
Remain had no advantages against the leave campaign.
"We have had enough of experts", ruled out many of the traditional "advantages"
And truth had no advantage over alternative facts.0 -
It's probably a waste of my time debating with you.Scott_P said:
You are trying to use polling to shore up your argument? Where have you been for the last 2 years...Casino_Royale said:The polling two months before the vote showed that, yet alone nine months before when it was looking like a 65:35 drubbing for Leave.
Remain had no advantages against the leave campaign.
"We have had enough of experts", ruled out many of the traditional "advantages"
And truth had no advantage over alternative facts.0 -
A superb book.JohnO said:Andrew Cooper certainly doesn't emerge with honours in Tim Shipman's riveting 'All Out War'.
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The advantages were overwhelming, Scotty. The government, Lab, Lib, Plaid, SNP and two greenie parties on one side, just Ukip on the other and the tories neutral. The advantages were thrown away by the arrogance, laziness and complacency of people like David Cameron, and you. It was yours to lose. Oh and "Turkey joining the EU" was something which was going to happen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_UnionScott_P said:
They had no advantage over "Turkey joining the EU' or "£350m for the NHS"Casino_Royale said:Remain had no real answer to the specific issue of immigration.
That's very different from saying Remain had no advantage whatsoever: in fact, the advantages it had were overwhelming.
If "the advantages were overwhelming" we would not be having this discussion.
In the post-truth World of Trump, I am amazed anyone can still be claiming that remain had an advantage over a campaign of "alternative facts".
The single most striking bit of post truthiness I have ever seen, is people like you pretending that every single word of that is fiction, but it isn't. It is what was going to happen, not something which everyone cunningly conspired to pretend would happen, when actually it wouldn't.0 -
DNS fail btw.0
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It's not happening.Ishmael_Z said:The single most striking bit of post truthiness I have ever seen, is people like you pretending that every single word of that is fiction, but it isn't. It is what was going to happen, not something which everyone cunningly conspired to pretend would happen, when actually it wouldn't.
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Dixie said:Toms said:
I think it's about 240 miles from Bedford. Although it wasn't necessary I stayed overnight in York so I could have a walk around town and its wall, etc. I charged expenses of two pence per mile, mainly for food. They paid it instantly.OldKingCole said:
Very impressed. How many miles did you cycle to get there?HurstLlama said:
Strangely, the thing I most recall about Durham is an aspect of some of the lanes in its surrounding countryside. I had cycled up there from Bedford in 1984 to do a couple of weeks work, passing through York on the Sunday before its cathedral burnt from a lightning strike.Pulpstar said:
Lot to be said for Durham. Centre of the city is one of the finer places in U.K.HurstLlama said:
WAlanbrooke said:
Mr LHurstLlama said:
Also chocolate and beer. Not to mention the cheapest cigars in Western Europe, inventing mayonnaise with chips and being able to run reasonably successfully without an elected government.Alanbrooke said:
Belgium - famous for sexual deviancyScott_P said:
@JasonGroves1: George Osborne missed tonight's Brexit vote despite a three-line whip. Giving a speech on Brexit in Antwerp apparently...Alanbrooke said:probably enjoying a lash of the whip elsewhere
All told Belgium has some good things going for it. Shame the place is such a dump.
good evening, hope 2017 is treating you well
However, the big downside is that Herself is talking about using this feline interregnum as a chance for us to going travelling. Together! She has already fixed up a mini-break in Durham in April and is talking about a cruise! I need to find a couple of stray cats quickly.
On a half day off I did about 40 odd miles around part of Durham's surrounding countryside. Once or twice I came upon a convergence of five or six(?) small lanes in a star pattern in the middle of quite isolated open land. Durham has Roman connections, so maybe there was a temple there. Or what? I've not seen that pattern before or since.0 -
Correct. Anyone who hopes for the survival of the Labour Party should pray for two defeats in the by-elections. Sadly with the utterly inept UKIP as the opponent in one seat, it looks a tall order.nielh said:The ongoing problem with Corbyn is that there is no strategy. As people point out here repeatedly, his support for triggering Article 50 and leaving the EU is undermined by the positions he has taken on issues of importance to labour voters, like his wholehearted endorsement of freedom of movement, unlimited immigration etc, IRA terrorists etc. With this Article 50 thing, he is also losing the three quidders, so we are truly fucked.
I'd been thinking about going up to Stoke to campaign for a few days, its a really important battle for the labour party and to keep UKIP at bay. My heart says I should, but then I keep returning to the position that unless the labour party can move Corbyn on then it simply has no hope. And what - other than the loss of these safe seats to the tories and UKIP - is going to bring people in the party to their senses?0 -
another_richard said:
Amusing that Bob has such a low view of Vauxhall voters - a constituency with a 78% Remain vote.MonikerDiCanio said:
I don't share your low opinion of Labour voters.Jobabob said:
They would vote for you too if you wore a red rosette and stood for Labour.MonikerDiCanio said:
I can clear that up for you. Voted for her.Jobabob said:
What Vauxhall has done to deserve her is unclear.SouthamObserver said:
Anna certainly seems to be more to the left than Kate, who I suspect may be one of the few Labour MPs deselected before the next GE.Alanbrooke said:
well trade you Kate Hoey for Anna Soubry :-)SouthamObserver said:
It's more because she gives every impression of being a right wing Tory.Alanbrooke said:
tskSouthamObserver said:
I don't know about the others, but I genuinely don't know why Kate Hoey is in the Labour party.surbiton said:
Why the fuck do they not join the Tories as they are just that ?Richard_Tyndall said:
All long time Eurosceptics and members of the Labour Safeguards group.dr_spyn said:
so much for diversity
is it because shes a woman ?
I don't grasp this obsession you have with AV voting areas. I couldn't give a toss about AV. It's the one election where I cannot even remember which way I voted.another_richard said:
Because the nice Remain voting areas wouldn't want you.Jobabob said:Why doesn't the nation just realign on Leave/Remain lines? We'll have Greater London, the Cotswolds, all of Scotland, Manchester, Liverpool and Newcastle. Leave can have Doncaster and the rest.
Take a look at the AV map:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vote_referendum,_2011#/media/File:United_Kingdom_AV_referendum_area_results.svg
You get the green dots.0 -
Remainia is rather nice. Leicester is a bit of a dull city but it does house the most surprising football club in the world.foxinsoxuk said:
Me too, count Leicester in, as well as Norwich, Cambridge and Bristol.Beverley_C said:0 -
Very much so but I had to rush the last few chapters to avoid being overdue at the Library (and not able to renew!). Have never taken much to Steve Baker MP and the book confirmed the existing prejudice.Casino_Royale said:
A superb book.JohnO said:Andrew Cooper certainly doesn't emerge with honours in Tim Shipman's riveting 'All Out War'.
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It is now not happening. It was then.Scott_P said:
It's not happening.Ishmael_Z said:The single most striking bit of post truthiness I have ever seen, is people like you pretending that every single word of that is fiction, but it isn't. It is what was going to happen, not something which everyone cunningly conspired to pretend would happen, when actually it wouldn't.
0 -
Of all Cameron's 'gaylording ponceyboots' failings, not simply saying, "In the present circumstance I would veto Turkey's accession," is possibly the worst. It's not as if he would have been going beyond what other European leaders had said, and given the lack of any progress towards the accession criteria could hardly have been a controversial position.Ishmael_Z said:Oh and "Turkey joining the EU" was something which was going to happen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union
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Agree. Laziness, apathy and arrogance.williamglenn said:
Of all Cameron's 'gaylording ponceyboots' failings, not simply saying, "In the present circumstance I would veto Turkey's accession," is possibly the worst. It's not as if he would have been going beyond what other European leaders had said, and given the lack of any progress towards the accession criteria could hardly have been a controversial position.Ishmael_Z said:Oh and "Turkey joining the EU" was something which was going to happen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union
0 -
In the case of Turkey last year, accession talks were by their nature intended to put diplomatic pressure on Erdogan, however forlorn that may have been.Ishmael_Z said:0 -
Waves arms....somebody has broken the internet machine.0
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It's running smoothly over here... *smug mode*FrancisUrquhart said:Waves arms....somebody has broken the internet machine.
0 -
Grim Reaper claims another legend today.
Won't mean much to most of you, but Richard Hatch has died.
He was Apollo in the original Battlestar Galactica and Tom Zarek in the re-imaged series.0 -
This is fascinating
https://twitter.com/reuters/status/829104201821208576
The appeal court keeps asking the lawyer for Trump if he has any evidence to support their claim...0 -
Had Remain won, I had heard he planned to become the embodiment of the shitty disloyalty of that is David Davis meets Mark Reckless.JohnO said:
Very much so but I had to rush the last few chapters to avoid being overdue at the Library (and not able to renew!). Have never taken much to Steve Baker MP and the book confirmed the existing prejudice.Casino_Royale said:
A superb book.JohnO said:Andrew Cooper certainly doesn't emerge with honours in Tim Shipman's riveting 'All Out War'.
0 -
How many terrorist offences have been committed in the US by individuals from the 7 countries named in the EO?
Err, none...0 -
Stop with your alternative facts. SadScott_P said:How many terrorist offences have been committed in the US by individuals from the 7 countries named in the EO?
Err, none...0 -
IANAL, but so far the judges do not seem to be impressed with the Government lawyerTheScreamingEagles said:Stop with your alternative facts. Sad
0 -
To be fair this is the worst time to be a government lawyer, most of the top dogs left when Obama left office, and Trump's team haven't all been confirmed.Scott_P said:
IANAL, but so far the judges do not seem to be impressed with the Government lawyerTheScreamingEagles said:Stop with your alternative facts. Sad
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The grim reaper has also claimed the modern day Dr Pangloss, Hans Rosling.0
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@DavidColeACLU: 9th Cir. argt. Ct: Why can't state sue on behalf of its citizens? Govt: long silence0
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@Hegemommy: Let's be clear here that the Department of Justice is setting up the argument that states can't challenge the president & neither can courts0
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All the 7/7 bombers were BritishScott_P said:How many terrorist offences have been committed in the US by individuals from the 7 countries named in the EO?
Err, none...
So were the men who beheaded Lee Rigby
So was Mohamed Emwazi
Good old immigration
Let's just do nothing0 -
http://globalnews.ca/news/3231630/trudeau-over-trump-more-americans-prefer-pm-as-their-president-ipsos-poll/
Thought this may of interest some, given that Trudeau has become a topic of conversation every now and again on this site.0 -
He's gone up in my estimation for his support of the glorious FPTP voting systemThe_Apocalypse said:http://globalnews.ca/news/3231630/trudeau-over-trump-more-americans-prefer-pm-as-their-president-ipsos-poll/
Thought this may of interest some, given that Trudeau has become a topic of conversation every now and again on this site.
0
