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Absolutely. One of the most poignant periods of my life was when I was involved in retraining the workers made redundant when Xerox closed the Mitcheldean laser printer plant (this was while going through DV). Life is always pretty easy for the bright. It's pretty shit for those who aren't.AlsoIndigo said:
I am guessing none of those was as a manual or skilled workerMTimT said:I have switched careers completely at 5 times. Each time I have switched, there has been a loss in salary initially. Most switches have ended up taking my earning potential higher. All have taken my learning potential higher.
Like I said, the clever and able will always find ways to compensate, blue collar assembly workers not so much.
I took a colossal drop in salary when I joined the Civil Service. Never got near my 2001 peak while there, but made a decent living. Did better after I left, natch.0 -
I think you vastly underestimate the potential and capabilities of the manual and skilled workers. Plenty of people who do not think of themselves as clever are excellent at playing computer games. If you can do that, there are a lot of skilled jobs you could do with a little self-belief and appropriate training.AlsoIndigo said:
I am guessing none of those was as a manual or skilled workerMTimT said:I have switched careers completely at 5 times. Each time I have switched, there has been a loss in salary initially. Most switches have ended up taking my earning potential higher. All have taken my learning potential higher.
Like I said, the clever and able will always find ways to compensate, blue collar assembly workers not so much.
Delivery trucks drivers are unskilled, right? Wrong. They are driving a complex vehicle, using GPS technology, using bar codes and computers, interacting with robots while abiding by driving laws and social codes.
The last item - social codes - is by far the most difficult thing they do, and they do it so well they don't even realize it is difficult.0 -
So Donald now has the nuclear codes and has his finger on the "button" ?
We can all sleep easily in our beds again.
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By the button, do you mean the post tweet one? That could be far more dangerous than anything else.GIN1138 said:So Donald now has the nuclear codes and has his finger on the "button" ?
We can all sleep easily in our beds again.0 -
Here's the shout out to his friend Farage.FrancisUrquhart said:
By the button, do you mean the post tweet one? That could be far more dangerous than anything else.GIN1138 said:So Donald now has the nuclear codes and has his finger on the "button" ?
We can all sleep easily in our beds again.
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/8225028874776739840 -
He makes W.Bush look moderate and smart. After Trump Democrats will elect someone to clean up his mess then the Republican base will nominate someone even crazier.........and he will be elected and the cycle continues.Ishmael_Z said:
I thought the "whether you are born in Detroit or Nebraska" bit was rather moving. But I have to say I am now officially scared shitless by Trump. Not funny any more.SeanT said:
I'll defend it. The speech was chaotic in parts, and jingoistic. And lacked really great lines. But it merely reiterated what Trump has said on the campaign trail. He is a nationalistic American. And I don't recalll any truly offensive lines, anything racist or abusive.NewsTaker said:
Very very few media commentators are defending THAT speech. Iain Dale was castigating on LBC "borderline Mussolini"Scott_P said:Who could he possibly mean?
@DAaronovitch: I pity the ‘Im going to pretend the Trump speech was OK because I’m not a metropolitan pussy’ pundits.
And in places it was clever and passionate and well delivered, in his alarmingly off the cuff way.
We're just so used to boring liberal boilerplate and tedious PC platitudes that's anything that strays off piste *sounds* outrageous. But really isn't, on analysis.
OK night night from Bangers. New chapter to write tomorrow.0 -
I might buy some shares in Twitter next week - It's now the number one website for finding out when the first nucks are gonna fly!FrancisUrquhart said:
By the button, do you mean the post tweet one? That could be far more dangerous than anything else.GIN1138 said:So Donald now has the nuclear codes and has his finger on the "button" ?
We can all sleep easily in our beds again. 0 -
Bloody Fake News....
Earlier this month The Guardian reported what it called a "backdoor" in WhatsApp, a Facebook-owned instant messaging app. Some security researchers were quick to call out The Guardian for what they concluded was irresponsible journalism and misleading story. Now, a group of over three dozen security researchers including Matthew Green and Bruce Schneier (as well as some from companies such as Google, Mozilla, Cloudflare, and EFF) have signed a long editorial post, pointing out where The Guardian's report fell short, and also asking the publication to retract the story.
http://gizmodo.com/theres-no-security-backdoor-in-whatsapp-despite-report-1791158247
This was also published by the likes of the BBC, Daily Mail etc as a big news story.0 -
Even Trump can't say Twitter...and they sold off one of the good bits (that actually creates clever service enhancing stuff e.g the seamless embedding of multimedia) earlier this week to Google.GIN1138 said:
I might buy some shares in Twitter next week - It's now the number one website for finding out when the first nucks are gonna fly!FrancisUrquhart said:
By the button, do you mean the post tweet one? That could be far more dangerous than anything else.GIN1138 said:So Donald now has the nuclear codes and has his finger on the "button" ?
We can all sleep easily in our beds again.0 -
You need to pray that Mattis is confirmed as Sec Def!GIN1138 said:
I might buy some shares in Twitter next week - It's now the number one website for finding out when the first nucks are gonna fly!FrancisUrquhart said:
By the button, do you mean the post tweet one? That could be far more dangerous than anything else.GIN1138 said:So Donald now has the nuclear codes and has his finger on the "button" ?
We can all sleep easily in our beds again.0 -
A father wanted to teach his kids about democracy so he let them all vote on what they wanted for tea. They voted for pizza but he gave them burritos because they did not live in a swing state.
Can't think why that joke came back to me today.0 -
As I said earlier a universal basic income in a decade or two is inevitable so people can afford to take whatever work they can and to retrainAlsoIndigo said:
I am guessing none of those was as a manual or skilled workerMTimT said:I have switched careers completely at 5 times. Each time I have switched, there has been a loss in salary initially. Most switches have ended up taking my earning potential higher. All have taken my learning potential higher.
Like I said, the clever and able will always find ways to compensate, blue collar assembly workers not so much.0 -
Noting that you didn't give any to back up yours, I will say that the work of Carol Dweck to which MTimT refers is well worth looking at. Or you could look out of the window and notice how most of the official "education" system is based on telling the epsilons they're epsilons, the betas they're betas, etc. - and why it is functional to the social hierarchy for those with privileged positions to think that such a hierarchy is "natural", despite its relying to a very great degree on the inheritance of privilege.AlsoIndigo said:
I suppose you have some evidence to back up that assertion?Dromedary said:0 -
On things like LGBT rights Trump is left of George W Bush and Obama was the most left liberal president since FDR. Personally I think Trump will lose the House in 2018 but beat Warren in 2020, Bobby Kennedy's grandson Congressman Joseph Patrick Kennedy is a good long shot bet for 2024nunu said:
He makes W.Bush look moderate and smart. After Trump Democrats will elect someone to clean up his mess then the Republican base will nominate someone even crazier.........and he will be elected and the cycle continues.Ishmael_Z said:
I thought the "whether you are born in Detroit or Nebraska" bit was rather moving. But I have to say I am now officially scared shitless by Trump. Not funny any more.SeanT said:
I'll defend it. The speech was chaotic in parts, and jingoistic. And lacked really great lines. But it merely reiterated what Trump has said on the campaign trail. He is a nationalistic American. And I don't recalll any truly offensive lines, anything racist or abusive.NewsTaker said:
Very very few media commentators are defending THAT speech. Iain Dale was castigating on LBC "borderline Mussolini"Scott_P said:Who could he possibly mean?
@DAaronovitch: I pity the ‘Im going to pretend the Trump speech was OK because I’m not a metropolitan pussy’ pundits.
And in places it was clever and passionate and well delivered, in his alarmingly off the cuff way.
We're just so used to boring liberal boilerplate and tedious PC platitudes that's anything that strays off piste *sounds* outrageous. But really isn't, on analysis.
OK night night from Bangers. New chapter to write tomorrow.0 -
It always strikes me as completely bonkers that they go to all the expense in years like 2005, 2013 for absolutely no reason whatsoever.0
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It's late but might you expand on that.Richard_Tyndall said:
Best president was Truman by a mile. The last one who understood the concept of public service.Alistair said:The idea that massive deficit swelling Reagan is best President is interesting.
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And yes the Trump speech was absolutely terrifying.
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Gosh, Donald Regan references. That's a throwback.The_Apocalypse said:
Apparently he's just like Regan though. Even though the way he loves Russia would have Regan spinning in his grave right now....SouthamObserver said:Trump could well kill conservatism in many different ways.
@SeanT Obama is pretty popular in this country. Trump isn't.
If you're planning to sneer, accurate sneering is helpful.0 -
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Just watched this video. I'm tempted to share it on Facebook partly because most of the friends I have who bother to post about Trump just put insulting stuff up. It's an interesting watch and probably a good guide to understanding what is going on right now. But how many people want to understand?
Just as a warning - if you are allergic to narcissistic men you may wish to avoid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gGIu9tj7IA
Trade, war, Bush, women, alcohol, Clinton.0 -
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You do have a remarkable certainty to your predictions.HYUFD said:
On things like LGBT rights Trump is left of George W Bush and Obama was the most left liberal president since FDR. Personally I think Trump will lose the House in 2018 but beat Warren in 2020, Bobby Kennedy's grandson Congressman Joseph Patrick Kennedy is a good long shot bet for 2024nunu said:
He makes W.Bush look moderate and smart. After Trump Democrats will elect someone to clean up his mess then the Republican base will nominate someone even crazier.........and he will be elected and the cycle continues.Ishmael_Z said:
I thought the "whether you are born in Detroit or Nebraska" bit was rather moving. But I have to say I am now officially scared shitless by Trump. Not funny any more.SeanT said:
I'll defend it. The speech was chaotic in parts, and jingoistic. And lacked really great lines. But it merely reiterated what Trump has said on the campaign trail. He is a nationalistic American. And I don't recalll any truly offensive lines, anything racist or abusive.NewsTaker said:
Very very few media commentators are defending THAT speech. Iain Dale was castigating on LBC "borderline Mussolini"Scott_P said:Who could he possibly mean?
@DAaronovitch: I pity the ‘Im going to pretend the Trump speech was OK because I’m not a metropolitan pussy’ pundits.
And in places it was clever and passionate and well delivered, in his alarmingly off the cuff way.
We're just so used to boring liberal boilerplate and tedious PC platitudes that's anything that strays off piste *sounds* outrageous. But really isn't, on analysis.
OK night night from Bangers. New chapter to write tomorrow.0 -
Are you really having this reaction over a typo? LOL.matt said:
Gosh, Donald Regan references. That's a throwback.The_Apocalypse said:
Apparently he's just like Regan though. Even though the way he loves Russia would have Regan spinning in his grave right now....SouthamObserver said:Trump could well kill conservatism in many different ways.
@SeanT Obama is pretty popular in this country. Trump isn't.
If you're planning to sneer, accurate sneering is helpful.
EDIT: Also I'm not 'planning to sneer'. I don't sit there and plan my reactions to posts on PB 24 hours in advance.0 -
Although we forget it because 9/11 happened in his first year changing the course of modern history, W. Bush was elected on a platform of "compassionate conservativism". Virtually his first action after inauguration was education reform and No Child Left Behind. His political lines leading to his 2000 election was more like David Cameron's "modernisation" than the extreme right winger he's been stereotyped as.nunu said:
He makes W.Bush look moderate and smart. After Trump Democrats will elect someone to clean up his mess then the Republican base will nominate someone even crazier.........and he will be elected and the cycle continues.Ishmael_Z said:
I thought the "whether you are born in Detroit or Nebraska" bit was rather moving. But I have to say I am now officially scared shitless by Trump. Not funny any more.SeanT said:
I'll defend it. The speech was chaotic in parts, and jingoistic. And lacked really great lines. But it merely reiterated what Trump has said on the campaign trail. He is a nationalistic American. And I don't recalll any truly offensive lines, anything racist or abusive.NewsTaker said:
Very very few media commentators are defending THAT speech. Iain Dale was castigating on LBC "borderline Mussolini"Scott_P said:Who could he possibly mean?
@DAaronovitch: I pity the ‘Im going to pretend the Trump speech was OK because I’m not a metropolitan pussy’ pundits.
And in places it was clever and passionate and well delivered, in his alarmingly off the cuff way.
We're just so used to boring liberal boilerplate and tedious PC platitudes that's anything that strays off piste *sounds* outrageous. But really isn't, on analysis.
OK night night from Bangers. New chapter to write tomorrow.0 -
The man who talks about 'America First' and buying American goods has his suit made in China. What a joke.foxinsoxuk said:Swamp the Drain!
https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/8225029961478389780 -
Hm, I doubt his suit is made in China.The_Apocalypse said:
The man who talks about 'America First' and buying American goods has his suit made in China. What a joke.foxinsoxuk said:Swamp the Drain!
twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/8225029961478389780 -
If you are referring to the last bit about public service, Truman did his time as president and then went home to live in the house he inherited from his mother. He refused every corporate position offered to him as he felt it would be abusing his position as a former president. No endorsements, no directorships and no work for any company because he believed they would only want him because he had been president. He lived on his army pension of $112 a month.matt said:
It's late but might you expand on that.Richard_Tyndall said:
Best president was Truman by a mile. The last one who understood the concept of public service.Alistair said:The idea that massive deficit swelling Reagan is best President is interesting.
Politically he was a giant. During his Presidency we got the Marshall Plan, NATO and the UN all of which he played a crucial part in. He was willing to take difficult decisions including the dropping of the two atomic bombs, the Berlin Airlift and supporting the UN intervention in the Korean War.
At home he was the driving force behind civil rights laws which included complete integration in the armed forces and all federal organisations. Interestingly for today he also tried to push through the first national health insurance system in the US.0 -
Just the ties in his name!RobD said:
Hm, I doubt his suit is made in China.The_Apocalypse said:
The man who talks about 'America First' and buying American goods has his suit made in China. What a joke.foxinsoxuk said:Swamp the Drain!
twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/822502996147838978
Another tweet for PBerz:
https://twitter.com/UberFacts/status/8225126170674503680 -
You refer to a wholly different person. That you are unaware of that is perhaps a comment on your limited knowledge. Which you display regularly.The_Apocalypse said:
Are you really having this reaction over a typo? LOL.matt said:
Gosh, Donald Regan references. That's a throwback.The_Apocalypse said:
Apparently he's just like Regan though. Even though the way he loves Russia would have Regan spinning in his grave right now....SouthamObserver said:Trump could well kill conservatism in many different ways.
@SeanT Obama is pretty popular in this country. Trump isn't.
If you're planning to sneer, accurate sneering is helpful.
EDIT: Also I'm not 'planning to sneer'. I don't sit there and plan my reactions to posts on PB 24 hours in advance.
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Bane not Bain FFS.foxinsoxuk said:
Just the ties in his name!RobD said:
Hm, I doubt his suit is made in China.The_Apocalypse said:
The man who talks about 'America First' and buying American goods has his suit made in China. What a joke.foxinsoxuk said:Swamp the Drain!
twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/822502996147838978
Another tweet for PBerz:
https://twitter.com/UberFacts/status/8225126170674503680 -
I set out what I think will happen, if you wish to disagree finematt said:
You do have a remarkable certainty to your predictions.HYUFD said:
On things like LGBT rights Trump is left of George W Bush and Obama was the most left liberal president since FDR. Personally I think Trump will lose the House in 2018 but beat Warren in 2020, Bobby Kennedy's grandson Congressman Joseph Patrick Kennedy is a good long shot bet for 2024nunu said:
He makes W.Bush look moderate and smart. After Trump Democrats will elect someone to clean up his mess then the Republican base will nominate someone even crazier.........and he will be elected and the cycle continues.Ishmael_Z said:
I thought the "whether you are born in Detroit or Nebraska" bit was rather moving. But I have to say I am now officially scared shitless by Trump. Not funny any more.SeanT said:
I'll defend it. The speech was chaotic in parts, and jingoistic. And lacked really great lines. But it merely reiterated what Trump has said on the campaign trail. He is a nationalistic American. And I don't recalll any truly offensive lines, anything racist or abusive.NewsTaker said:
Very very few media commentators are defending THAT speech. Iain Dale was castigating on LBC "borderline Mussolini"Scott_P said:Who could he possibly mean?
@DAaronovitch: I pity the ‘Im going to pretend the Trump speech was OK because I’m not a metropolitan pussy’ pundits.
And in places it was clever and passionate and well delivered, in his alarmingly off the cuff way.
We're just so used to boring liberal boilerplate and tedious PC platitudes that's anything that strays off piste *sounds* outrageous. But really isn't, on analysis.
OK night night from Bangers. New chapter to write tomorrow.0 -
Oh do get over yourself. Besides it's fairly obvious who I was referring to. It's a typo. It happens.matt said:
You refer to a wholly different person. That you are unaware of that is perhaps a comment on your limited knowledge. Which you display regularly.The_Apocalypse said:
Are you really having this reaction over a typo? LOL.matt said:
Gosh, Donald Regan references. That's a throwback.The_Apocalypse said:
Apparently he's just like Regan though. Even though the way he loves Russia would have Regan spinning in his grave right now....SouthamObserver said:Trump could well kill conservatism in many different ways.
@SeanT Obama is pretty popular in this country. Trump isn't.
If you're planning to sneer, accurate sneering is helpful.
EDIT: Also I'm not 'planning to sneer'. I don't sit there and plan my reactions to posts on PB 24 hours in advance.
EDIT: Ironically, you're guilty of the sneering which you've sat here and accused others of.0 -
It appears he doesn't just disagree he 'sneers', which is ironic given what he accuses those who he disagrees with of.HYUFD said:
I set out what I think will happen, if you wish to disagree finematt said:
You do have a remarkable certainty to your predictions.HYUFD said:
On things like LGBT rights Trump is left of George W Bush and Obama was the most left liberal president since FDR. Personally I think Trump will lose the House in 2018 but beat Warren in 2020, Bobby Kennedy's grandson Congressman Joseph Patrick Kennedy is a good long shot bet for 2024nunu said:
He makes W.Bush look moderate and smart. After Trump Democrats will elect someone to clean up his mess then the Republican base will nominate someone even crazier.........and he will be elected and the cycle continues.Ishmael_Z said:
I thought the "whether you are born in Detroit or Nebraska" bit was rather moving. But I have to say I am now officially scared shitless by Trump. Not funny any more.SeanT said:
I'll defend it. The speech was chaotic in parts, and jingoistic. And lacked really great lines. But it merely reiterated what Trump has said on the campaign trail. He is a nationalistic American. And I don't recalll any truly offensive lines, anything racist or abusive.NewsTaker said:
Very very few media commentators are defending THAT speech. Iain Dale was castigating on LBC "borderline Mussolini"Scott_P said:Who could he possibly mean?
@DAaronovitch: I pity the ‘Im going to pretend the Trump speech was OK because I’m not a metropolitan pussy’ pundits.
And in places it was clever and passionate and well delivered, in his alarmingly off the cuff way.
We're just so used to boring liberal boilerplate and tedious PC platitudes that's anything that strays off piste *sounds* outrageous. But really isn't, on analysis.
OK night night from Bangers. New chapter to write tomorrow.0 -
The second two paragraphs I knew. The final sentence of the first paragraph, that's from the same moral basis as Crichel Down and Dugdale (it's interesting that Carrington followed his master's line 30 years later). Politicians of all stripes would now, one suspects, take a materially different approach.Richard_Tyndall said:
If you are referring to the last bit about public service, Truman did his time as president and then went home to live in the house he inherited from his mother. He refused every corporate position offered to him as he felt it would be abusing his position as a former president. No endorsements, no directorships and no work for any company because he believed they would only want him because he had been president. He lived on his army pension of $112 a month.matt said:
It's late but might you expand on that.Richard_Tyndall said:
Best president was Truman by a mile. The last one who understood the concept of public service.Alistair said:The idea that massive deficit swelling Reagan is best President is interesting.
Politically he was a giant. During his Presidency we got the Marshall Plan, NATO and the UN all of which he played a crucial part in. He was willing to take difficult decisions including the dropping of the two atomic bombs, the Berlin Airlift and supporting the UN intervention in the Korean War.
At home he was the driving force behind civil rights laws which included complete integration in the armed forces and all federal organisations. Interestingly for today he also tried to push through the first national health insurance system in the US.0 -
There's a great video clip of Hillary catching Bill apparently ogling Ivanka Trump during the inauguration doing the rounds. They clearly hate each other.0
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FrankBooth said:
Just watched this video. I'm tempted to share it on Facebook partly because most of the friends I have who bother to post about Trump just put insulting stuff up. It's an interesting watch and probably a good guide to understanding what is going on right now. But how many people want to understand?
Just as a warning - if you are allergic to narcissistic men you may wish to avoid.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gGIu9tj7IA
Trade, war, Bush, women, alcohol, Clinton.
Strange........definitely worth watching to get a different perspective for people like me........
Trump and Bill Clinton have much more in common that I ever got....
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Yes, but that's not what you saidfoxinsoxuk said:
Just the ties in his name!RobD said:
Hm, I doubt his suit is made in China.The_Apocalypse said:
The man who talks about 'America First' and buying American goods has his suit made in China. What a joke.foxinsoxuk said:Swamp the Drain!
twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/822502996147838978
Another tweet for PBerz:
twitter.com/UberFacts/status/822512617067450368 0 -
new thread
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Telegraph claims Labour's internal polling in Copeland is dire.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/20/exclusive-labour-set-lose-copeland-by-election-partys-canvass/0 -
Seems soThe_Apocalypse said:
It appears he doesn't just disagree he 'sneers', which is ironic given what he accuses those who he disagrees with of.HYUFD said:
I set out what I think will happen, if you wish to disagree finematt said:
You do have a remarkable certainty to your predictions.HYUFD said:
On things like LGBT rights Trump is left of George W Bush and Obama was the most left liberal president since FDR. Personally I think Trump will lose the House in 2018 but beat Warren in 2020, Bobby Kennedy's grandson Congressman Joseph Patrick Kennedy is a good long shot bet for 2024nunu said:
He makes W.Bush look moderate and smart. After Trump Democrats will elect someone to clean up his mess then the Republican base will nominate someone even crazier.........and he will be elected and the cycle continues.Ishmael_Z said:
I thought the "whether you are born in Detroit or Nebraska" bit was rather moving. But I have to say I am now officially scared shitless by Trump. Not funny any more.SeanT said:
I'll defend it. The speech was chaotic in parts, and jingoistic. And lacked really great lines. But it merely reiterated what Trump has said on the campaign trail. He is a nationalistic American. And I don't recalll any truly offensive lines, anything racist or abusive.NewsTaker said:
Very very few media commentators are defending THAT speech. Iain Dale was castigating on LBC "borderline Mussolini"Scott_P said:Who could he possibly mean?
@DAaronovitch: I pity the ‘Im going to pretend the Trump speech was OK because I’m not a metropolitan pussy’ pundits.
And in places it was clever and passionate and well delivered, in his alarmingly off the cuff way.
We're just so used to boring liberal boilerplate and tedious PC platitudes that's anything that strays off piste *sounds* outrageous. But really isn't, on analysis.
OK night night from Bangers. New chapter to write tomorrow.0 -
during the carboniferous period co2 levels were 1800ppm almost 5 times more than now, if we were going to turn into venus we would have already done soFeersumEnjineeya said:
There's a small, but not completely negligible, chance that burning all accessible fossil fuels will turn the Earth into another Venus. Our descendants may have some difficulties adapting to that.SeanT said:
Good. Climate change is economic voodoo. We will adapt. The best periods for life on earth - a provable fact in terms of species variety - have been the warmer periods.FeersumEnjineeya said:
How utterly depressing. That quite possibly means the end of the Paris Climate Agreement and, with it, the last real change of limiting carbon emissions. If you want your descendants to inherit the family home, best make sure it's on high ground!Scott_P said:
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This discussion has been closed.