politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » May’s first PMQs: She’s going be a challenge for either Cor
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@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.0 -
And yet they just don't want to move on from it - it's not just Corbyn fighting yesterday's battles.The_Apocalypse said:@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.0 -
I'd consider the Lib Dems if they weren't so Europhile. So I guess they wouldn't consider meFF43 said:
I think the Lib Dems have an opportunity, but we don't know if it will be realised after them being invisible for so long. Their case goes something like this:peter_from_putney said:Two Taxi Tim Farron must be encouraged by the LibDems 9% level of support in this latest poll .... surely just about their highest score since last year's G.E.
A lot of people think the Coalition government worked much better than the one that followed. People who voted Remain will particularly think that because of the Brexit disaster (from their POV), but not just Remainers. We can generalise this goodwill to say Lib Dems bring a moderate and competent influence to politics across the board. So it's a just a step for people who might otherwise vote Conservative or Labour to decide we are worth voting for and to switch their votes to us.
. 0 -
I feel quite sorry for the Labour Party, being taken over by a bunch of whackjob lefties. One can't help feeling the coup attempt has flooded the party with new and more hardcore/radical members, it will make Corbyn even more entrenched, the Labour Party even more left wing, and even further removed from power.kle4 said:
It's either a moment of surprise revolution, or incredible blindness - Labour membership has never been more popular in modern times, and either they really are more reflective of the wider public than we think, or might prove appealing to it more than we think, or it is a party making itself unelectable in a really extreme way by total choice.PlatoSaid said:
Holy Hell.Tissue_Price said:@STJamesl
Am hearing that by close of play around 150k people will have become registered supporters in the Labour leadership contest
Blimey, they should have made it £100 a pop.
That's stunning if true.
[chuckles]0 -
Off the top of my headBob__Sykes said:Crumbs, when did a party ever shift 10 points either way between polls? Admittedly a gap since April and the April one looks a bit dodgy if the Tories were at 30% and UKIP 20%!
But blimey, this doesn't half look good for May - and she's hardly started yet!
10% shifts happened during
1) 2007 - The election that never was
2) 2008 - The credit crunch, when a 28% Tory lead became a Tory lead in 3% in two months
3) The Cleggasm0 -
I know of no pensioner who is more concerned for themselves than they are for their offspring. You may wish to consider the idea that pensioners maybe more willing to vote Conservative has bugger all to do with having "money thrown at them" but something to do with people who have seen life making a mature judgement about which party is likely to produce the best life chances for their children and, especially, grandchildren.SouthamObserver said:
And the Tories have been throwing money at them for six years :-)chestnut said:Pensioners:
Tory 58 Labour 15 UKIP 13
Old folk - the children of Beveridge - have written Labour off.
They know their client vote.0 -
Unlikely though. New PMs always enjoy a honeymoon but they do not usually long. I would be surprised if we see figure like this in mid-September.HYUFD said:
UKIP unchanged since the general election though however that would be the biggest Tory and Labour gap since the 1987 general election, so maybe May is the new Thatcher and whether Labour pick Corbyn or Smith it does not make a real difference, they are just choosing between Foot and Kinnock!John_M said:
May hurting UKIP more than Labour is the simple takeaway.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Which is why we had a referendum in the first place, and also why Leave won it.Sean_F said:
The last one looked like an outlier. But, there's nothing surprising about this. People on the Right who were pissed off with David Cameron's fake renegotiation have switched back to the Tories.nunu said:
When were the tories at 30% with yougov?TheScreamingEagles said:
Our status quo ante as an EU member simply wasn't politically sustainable.0 -
Must be a rare occurrence when a party in power, jumps +10 ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Off the top of my headBob__Sykes said:Crumbs, when did a party ever shift 10 points either way between polls? Admittedly a gap since April and the April one looks a bit dodgy if the Tories were at 30% and UKIP 20%!
But blimey, this doesn't half look good for May - and she's hardly started yet!
10% shifts happened during
1) 2007 - The election that never was
2) 2008 - The credit crunch, when a 28% Tory lead became a Tory lead in 3% in two months
3) The Cleggasm0 -
May-gasm!TheScreamingEagles said:
Off the top of my headBob__Sykes said:Crumbs, when did a party ever shift 10 points either way between polls? Admittedly a gap since April and the April one looks a bit dodgy if the Tories were at 30% and UKIP 20%!
But blimey, this doesn't half look good for May - and she's hardly started yet!
10% shifts happened during
1) 2007 - The election that never was
2) 2008 - The credit crunch, when a 28% Tory lead became a Tory lead in 3% in two months
3) The Cleggasm0 -
I remember a fantastic prediction about Labour's performance if (1) had occurred.TheScreamingEagles said:
Off the top of my headBob__Sykes said:Crumbs, when did a party ever shift 10 points either way between polls? Admittedly a gap since April and the April one looks a bit dodgy if the Tories were at 30% and UKIP 20%!
But blimey, this doesn't half look good for May - and she's hardly started yet!
10% shifts happened during
1) 2007 - The election that never was
2) 2008 - The credit crunch, when a 28% Tory lead became a Tory lead in 3% in two months
3) The Cleggasm
Wish I could find it again.0 -
Yes.The_Apocalypse said:@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.
You lefties really don't know what Maggie does to us Tory Boys.0 -
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I had a feeling that Teresa May would be brutal in the HOC.. she stuttered on the odd word, but for a first time out, it was almost faultless.0
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The body language expert on Sky made some interesting points.Pulpstar said:I just can't see Owen Smith being the type to inspire 150,000 sign ups. Not even 50,000.
Corbyn = Dumbledore, has that headmaster quality/seriousness.
Owen = Supply teacher who enthuses pupils to join him on a field trip. He's Blairesque mannerisms and seems keen to please/flatter.0 -
Well, heading into silly season aren't we, so they might be able to eke out the honeymoon for a bit longer, but not by much. Brexit or no Brexit we were storing up some problems in any case.justin124 said:
Unlikely though. New PMs always enjoy a honeymoon but they do not usually long. I would be surprised if we see figure like this in mid-September.HYUFD said:
UKIP unchanged since the general election though however that would be the biggest Tory and Labour gap since the 1987 general election, so maybe May is the new Thatcher and whether Labour pick Corbyn or Smith it does not make a real difference, they are just choosing between Foot and Kinnock!John_M said:
May hurting UKIP more than Labour is the simple takeaway.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
The kindest thing I can say about Smith is that he wears his left wing credentials extremely lightly. Perhaps he's had a Damascene conversion from his days as a Blairite loyalist.ToryJim said:
Well quite. Is it just me or is there a resemblance between Owen Smith and the hapless Hollande?Pulpstar said:I just can't see Owen Smith being the type to inspire 150,000 sign ups. Not even 50,000.
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It was the policy platform of the Tories that created the "nasty party" image, not the way that Thatcher handled the dispatch box. I would hate to see a reversal of Tory modernisation, the death of my part of the party, but I had no reason to worry watching May.The_Apocalypse said:@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.
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I did some research a couple of weeks ago for a potential thread, happened when Major replaced ThatcherSimonStClare said:
Must be a rare occurrence when a party in power, jumps +10 ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Off the top of my headBob__Sykes said:Crumbs, when did a party ever shift 10 points either way between polls? Admittedly a gap since April and the April one looks a bit dodgy if the Tories were at 30% and UKIP 20%!
But blimey, this doesn't half look good for May - and she's hardly started yet!
10% shifts happened during
1) 2007 - The election that never was
2) 2008 - The credit crunch, when a 28% Tory lead became a Tory lead in 3% in two months
3) The Cleggasm0 -
politics is a punctuated equilibriumSimonStClare said:
Must be a rare occurrence when a party in power, jumps +10 ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Off the top of my headBob__Sykes said:Crumbs, when did a party ever shift 10 points either way between polls? Admittedly a gap since April and the April one looks a bit dodgy if the Tories were at 30% and UKIP 20%!
But blimey, this doesn't half look good for May - and she's hardly started yet!
10% shifts happened during
1) 2007 - The election that never was
2) 2008 - The credit crunch, when a 28% Tory lead became a Tory lead in 3% in two months
3) The Cleggasm
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2005-20100 -
Calm down dears. Yes, Theresa May has made an excellent start, exactly as one would expect, but it makes no sense to take much notice of polling in the current circumstances. She is getting a new-leader bounce, as usually happens. Hell, even Gordon Brown did. And (as we see clearly on here) Kippers/Kipper-inclined are projecting the impossible onto the Brexit negotiations, as indeed are some of those who voted Remain or who wanted an EEA-style deal, so some of that support will fall away; of necessity, some of those groups are going to be disappointed.
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*shudder*Casino_Royale said:
Yes.The_Apocalypse said:@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.
You lefties really don't know what Maggie does to us Tory Boys.
Is Thatcher wearing a blue shirt under a blue jacket in that picture? Someone was trying too hard.Scott_P said:0 -
''You lefties really don't know what Maggie does to us Tory Boys.''
LOL. Harsh but fair.0 -
First time I saw a picture of Smith I thought it was Ben Elton – but that’s coming from a chap who often mistakes Corbyn for Obi Wan and Angela Eagle for Eddy Izzard…ToryJim said:
Well quite. Is it just me or is there a resemblance between Owen Smith and the hapless Hollande?Pulpstar said:I just can't see Owen Smith being the type to inspire 150,000 sign ups. Not even 50,000.
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Thatcher and Corbyn are similar in that both had/have the courage of their convictions. It's an attractive quality. However, there is evidence that Thatcher's thinking evolved over time, a charge that cannot be fairly levelled at Mr Corbyn.Casino_Royale said:
Yes.The_Apocalypse said:@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.
You lefties really don't know what Maggie does to us Tory Boys.0 -
How many £3ers have become £25ers is key. If your vote in 2015 won it for Comrade Corbyn, I'd imagine you'd fork out £25 to keep him there.Bob__Sykes said:
I feel quite sorry for the Labour Party, being taken over by a bunch of whackjob lefties. One can't help feeling the coup attempt has flooded the party with new and more hardcore/radical members, it will make Corbyn even more entrenched, the Labour Party even more left wing, and even further removed from power.kle4 said:
It's either a moment of surprise revolution, or incredible blindness - Labour membership has never been more popular in modern times, and either they really are more reflective of the wider public than we think, or might prove appealing to it more than we think, or it is a party making itself unelectable in a really extreme way by total choice.PlatoSaid said:
Holy Hell.Tissue_Price said:@STJamesl
Am hearing that by close of play around 150k people will have become registered supporters in the Labour leadership contest
Blimey, they should have made it £100 a pop.
That's stunning if true.
[chuckles]0 -
Exactly. We not in the 1980s anymore, we are in the 2010s. Let's fight the battles of today - there are plenty of them.kle4 said:
And yet they just don't want to move on from it - it's not just Corbyn fighting yesterday's battles.The_Apocalypse said:@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.0 -
True enough. She seems keener on keeping the kipper inclined support at present that the EEA crowd, which is a shame, but neither will be very happy no doubt.Richard_Nabavi said:And (as we see clearly on here) Kippers/Kipper-inclined are projecting the impossible onto the Brexit negotiations, as indeed are some of those who voted Remain or who wanted an EEA-style deal, so some of that support will fall away; of necessity, some of those groups are going to be disappointed.
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Just back from three hours in the dentist's chair (which inexplicably cost me the grand sum of £32!). From a first watch of the May v Corbyn bit she completely schooled him and looked like Thatcher as I remember her as a schoolboy. Her personality is better suited to nailing JC to the cross than Dave's ever was. He'll be over the moon by the time the recess arrives, a great opening Wednesday for the new PM.0
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Miss Apocalypse also seems to forget that after Thatcher the Conservatives won a general election with the highest number of votes ever cast for one party.Casino_Royale said:
Yes.The_Apocalypse said:@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.
You lefties really don't know what Maggie does to us Tory Boys.
Youngsters believing the myths they have been taught rather than learning the history.0 -
He doesn't see the Blair period as anything to do with him, that's the whole point.MattW said:Listening back to PMQ.
Corbyn attacking Matron for the falling proportion of younger people buying their houses between 1998 and 2016 ie two thirds government by his own party, and turning querulous when it was pointed out.
Dear God, that man is a gormless oaf.0 -
Jacket over a dress.kle4 said:
*shudder*Casino_Royale said:
Yes.The_Apocalypse said:@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.
You lefties really don't know what Maggie does to us Tory Boys.
Is Thatcher wearing a blue shirt under a blue jacket in that picture? Someone was trying too hard.Scott_P said:0 -
A definite outlier.Sean_F said:
The last one looked like an outlier. But, there's nothing surprising about this. People on the Right who were pissed off with David Cameron's fake renegotiation have switched back to the Tories.nunu said:
When were the tories at 30% with yougov?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2
YouGov/Times 2016-04-26 30 33 6 20 3 -30 -
https://twitter.com/JamesAnstee/status/754720886675107840SimonStClare said:
First time I saw a picture of Smith I thought it was Ben Elton – but that’s coming from a chap who often mistakes Corbyn for Obi Wan and Angela Eagle for Eddy Izzard…ToryJim said:
Well quite. Is it just me or is there a resemblance between Owen Smith and the hapless Hollande?Pulpstar said:I just can't see Owen Smith being the type to inspire 150,000 sign ups. Not even 50,000.
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That's just it.Scott_P said:
It wasn't just the voice, it was the way she twisted her shoulder and lowered her body into it.0 -
How long did the honeymoon last?TheScreamingEagles said:
I did some research a couple of weeks ago for a potential thread, happened when Major replaced ThatcherSimonStClare said:
Must be a rare occurrence when a party in power, jumps +10 ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Off the top of my headBob__Sykes said:Crumbs, when did a party ever shift 10 points either way between polls? Admittedly a gap since April and the April one looks a bit dodgy if the Tories were at 30% and UKIP 20%!
But blimey, this doesn't half look good for May - and she's hardly started yet!
10% shifts happened during
1) 2007 - The election that never was
2) 2008 - The credit crunch, when a 28% Tory lead became a Tory lead in 3% in two months
3) The Cleggasm0 -
Notice how May is leaning in with the left shoulder though? Bad sign.Casino_Royale said:
That's just it.Scott_P said:
It wasn't just the voice, it was the way she twisted her shoulder and lowered her body into it.0 -
Then we have conference season, Labour's will be a bloodbath, Lib Dems will be somnolent and May's debut will be last so she ought to come out with a pretty good lead.kle4 said:
Well, heading into silly season aren't we, so they might be able to eke out the honeymoon for a bit longer, but not by much. Brexit or no Brexit we were storing up some problems in any case.justin124 said:
Unlikely though. New PMs always enjoy a honeymoon but they do not usually long. I would be surprised if we see figure like this in mid-September.HYUFD said:
UKIP unchanged since the general election though however that would be the biggest Tory and Labour gap since the 1987 general election, so maybe May is the new Thatcher and whether Labour pick Corbyn or Smith it does not make a real difference, they are just choosing between Foot and Kinnock!John_M said:
May hurting UKIP more than Labour is the simple takeaway.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I used the left luggage at Manchester Piccadilly at the weekend, and that is apparently in North Britain. https://www.left-baggage.co.uk/index/locationsmalcolmg said:
He is a halfwit and called himself North British, he is no real Scotsman.JonnyJimmy said:
I don't think Malc considers Brown to be a true ScotsmanThreeQuidder said:
Because of Gordon Brown.malcolmg said:If you are talking about borrowing , why is England borrowing £100B a year you halfwit.
Just in case you've forgotten him, he's Scottish.0 -
Ultimately, it is not possible that the competing promises of the various Leave campaigns can all be true.kle4 said:
True enough. She seems keener on keeping the kipper inclined support at present that the EEA crowd, which is a shame, but neither will be very happy no doubt.Richard_Nabavi said:And (as we see clearly on here) Kippers/Kipper-inclined are projecting the impossible onto the Brexit negotiations, as indeed are some of those who voted Remain or who wanted an EEA-style deal, so some of that support will fall away; of necessity, some of those groups are going to be disappointed.
For example...
We can have a free trade agreement with China.
but
We cannot do that and protect our steelworks.0 -
Kudos to the Mirror for coming up with. 'Maggie May'!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/who-won-pmqs-maggie-channels-84543780 -
''Youngsters believing the myths they have been taught rather than learning the history. ''
I think its also fair to say that it was more than a decade after the fall of Thatcher that we first heard the 'nasty party' term.
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Mr. Llama, wasn't that Major in 1992?
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A considerable reduction in the UKIP vote is the most interesting part.ThreeQuidder said:
A definite outlier.Sean_F said:
The last one looked like an outlier. But, there's nothing surprising about this. People on the Right who were pissed off with David Cameron's fake renegotiation have switched back to the Tories.nunu said:
When were the tories at 30% with yougov?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2
YouGov/Times 2016-04-26 30 33 6 20 3 -30 -
"Sunil" means bluekle4 said:
*shudder*Casino_Royale said:
Yes.The_Apocalypse said:@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.
You lefties really don't know what Maggie does to us Tory Boys.
Is Thatcher wearing a blue shirt under a blue jacket in that picture? Someone was trying too hard.Scott_P said: 0 -
Here it is
Guardian ICM Nov 1990, just shortly after Sir Geoffrey Howe resigned, Thatcher was still PM (and before the first ballot of the Tory leadership contest)
Con 33 Lab 49 Lib Dems 13
Guardian ICM Dec 1990, shortly after John Major had become PM
Con 45 (+12) Lab 43 (-6) Lib Dems 9 (-3)
So the current polling isn't anything new.0 -
Not really - we've just had Brexit and it is a party awaiting a new leader in transition.TheWhiteRabbit said:
A considerable reduction in the UKIP vote is the most interesting part.ThreeQuidder said:
A definite outlier.Sean_F said:
The last one looked like an outlier. But, there's nothing surprising about this. People on the Right who were pissed off with David Cameron's fake renegotiation have switched back to the Tories.nunu said:
When were the tories at 30% with yougov?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2
YouGov/Times 2016-04-26 30 33 6 20 3 -30 -
How many constituency seats did the Conservatives win at this year's Scottish election, malcolm? Give you a clue - it wasn't 6. (Yes, there are more up for grabs but it wouldn't make that much difference.malcolmg said:
LOL, as much chance of them getting 6 as me being a Dutchmandavid_herdson said:
That Scotland figure should give the Tories several seats. I don't particularly believe it - big MoEs for unweighted subsamples - but John Major's Conservatives won 11 seats with 25.5% of the Scottish vote in 1992. The big SNP share makes that unrealistic now but 24% ought to deliver half a dozen.TheScreamingEagles said:Sub samples alert, but even in LONDON the Tories are ahead
https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/755752025678307332
Also, would be fascinating to see the breakdown for 'the north'. Take out Newcastle, S Yorks, Burnhamshire and so on (and Hagueshire on the other side), and I'd guess that it would look very healthy for the Blues across the W Yorks / Lancs marginals.0 -
She's facing the majority of the house and not the speaker....kle4 said:
Notice how May is leaning in with the left shoulder though? Bad sign.Casino_Royale said:
That's just it.Scott_P said:
It wasn't just the voice, it was the way she twisted her shoulder and lowered her body into it.0 -
The racket from the Leadsomites back pedaling is deafening!Richard_Nabavi said:Calm down dears. Yes, Theresa May has made an excellent start, exactly as one would expect, but it makes no sense to take much notice of polling in the current circumstances. She is getting a new-leader bounce, as usually happens. Hell, even Gordon Brown did. And (as we see clearly on here) Kippers/Kipper-inclined are projecting the impossible onto the Brexit negotiations, as indeed are some of those who voted Remain or who wanted an EEA-style deal, so some of that support will fall away; of necessity, some of those groups are going to be disappointed
And the "leaning into the dispatch box a la Thatcher" is over analysis. May will have learned that at the Oxford Union as an undergraduate.....indeed presumptuous leaning was frowned upon...(which May, as Librarian) could get away with...0 -
You voted UKIP though didn't you? An end to nominative determinism!Sunil_Prasannan said:
"Sunil" means bluekle4 said:
*shudder*Casino_Royale said:
Yes.The_Apocalypse said:@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.
You lefties really don't know what Maggie does to us Tory Boys.
Is Thatcher wearing a blue shirt under a blue jacket in that picture? Someone was trying too hard.Scott_P said:0 -
@PolhomeEditor: WATCH: Shami Chakrabarti hints she has been offered a Labour peerage
https://t.co/Xmg5scOStI https://t.co/UASEfYmdty0 -
I dunno, I could use the money to fund my trainspotting habitPlatoSaid said:
How many £3ers have become £25ers is key. If your vote in 2015 won it for Comrade Corbyn, I'd imagine you'd fork out £25 to keep him there.Bob__Sykes said:
I feel quite sorry for the Labour Party, being taken over by a bunch of whackjob lefties. One can't help feeling the coup attempt has flooded the party with new and more hardcore/radical members, it will make Corbyn even more entrenched, the Labour Party even more left wing, and even further removed from power.kle4 said:
It's either a moment of surprise revolution, or incredible blindness - Labour membership has never been more popular in modern times, and either they really are more reflective of the wider public than we think, or might prove appealing to it more than we think, or it is a party making itself unelectable in a really extreme way by total choice.PlatoSaid said:
Holy Hell.Tissue_Price said:@STJamesl
Am hearing that by close of play around 150k people will have become registered supporters in the Labour leadership contest
Blimey, they should have made it £100 a pop.
That's stunning if true.
[chuckles]
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It was only a joke, I assure you.eek said:
She's facing the majority of the house and not the speaker....kle4 said:
Notice how May is leaning in with the left shoulder though? Bad sign.Casino_Royale said:
That's just it.Scott_P said:
It wasn't just the voice, it was the way she twisted her shoulder and lowered her body into it.
Although, I see that means she was turning her back on the Speaker, symbolically rejecting our traditional values and system. Clearly an anti-establishment radical.0 -
It was indeed, Mr. Taffys. If I remember correctly it was after Blair had won the 1997 election and it was our current PM who at the Conservative Party conference said, "Some people call us the nasty party" or words very similar to that.taffys said:''Youngsters believing the myths they have been taught rather than learning the history. ''
I think its also fair to say that it was more than a decade after the fall of Thatcher that we first heard the 'nasty party' term.0 -
Presumably there are other DKs for the Tories, and offsetting gains (if limited), which is why the final figure is 29%. Still, no reason to assume that it's a floor to Labour's support.chestnut said:Just seen the Lab retention figure with don't knows: 58%
42% - that's nearly 4m 2015 voters - will not commit to Labour.
Corbyn loses Labour 4 million voters. The Lib Dem/UKIP offset is only about 600k.
Labour would poll 20-25% in an election if that were true.0 -
I get the feeling Ms Chakrabarti would, whatever problems with the current system, prefer an appointment to the grind of becoming an MP.Scott_P said:@PolhomeEditor: WATCH: Shami Chakrabarti hints she has been offered a Labour peerage
https://t.co/Xmg5scOStI https://t.co/UASEfYmdty0 -
@DPJHodges: Bloody hell. Corbyn's office refuses to deny he's offered Shami Chakrabarti a peerage. The "independent" chair of his AS inquiry.0
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Me too. Smith isn't worth paying £25 to vote for.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Unfortunately, I've decided to sit this one out (I was a 2015 £3-er).PlatoSaid said:
Holy Hell.Tissue_Price said:@STJamesl
Am hearing that by close of play around 150k people will have become registered supporters in the Labour leadership contest
Blimey, they should have made it £100 a pop.
That's stunning if true.0 -
*Calling everyone who loves their country*
We need a strong opposition in this country and yes Smith leaves a lot to be desired but Corbyn is a disaster, and Smith will step down if there is someone better.
Please, please please everyone if u love ur country register to save her Majesty's Loyal opposition.
Tories, I know u love ur country more than party, do ur duty hold ur nose and if u can register as a Labour supporter and vote for Owen Smith.0 -
I don't think May will reverse modernisation either. I wasn't trying to imply that Thatcher at the dispatch box created the nasty party image in my post, I'm sorry that that part of my post got a bit lost in translation! I agree that it was the policy platform that created that nasty party image. I interpreted many of the Thatcher/May comparisons to be comparing the two in terms of policy as well as styles at the dispatch box.TheWhiteRabbit said:
It was the policy platform of the Tories that created the "nasty party" image, not the way that Thatcher handled the dispatch box. I would hate to see a reversal of Tory modernisation, the death of my part of the party, but I had no reason to worry watching May.The_Apocalypse said:@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.0 -
I'll give you my Paypal details if you want to make up the difference?malcolmg said:
You are three quid short of a pound.ThreeQuidder said:
Because of Gordon Brown.malcolmg said:If you are talking about borrowing , why is England borrowing £100B a year you halfwit.
Just in case you've forgotten him, he's Scottish.0 -
2002 party conference.HurstLlama said:
It was indeed, Mr. Taffys. If I remember correctly it was after Blair had won the 1997 election and it was our current PM who at the Conservative Party conference said, "Some people call us the nasty party" or words very similar to that.taffys said:''Youngsters believing the myths they have been taught rather than learning the history. ''
I think its also fair to say that it was more than a decade after the fall of Thatcher that we first heard the 'nasty party' term.0 -
"The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the Earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it. Specifically, what was the point of the Labour party, again? Anyone got any idea?
Galadriel, spokeself for Lothlorien.
0 -
Yes, of course it was , Mr. D. The Nasty Party epithet came long after Thatcher had left office.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Llama, wasn't that Major in 1992?
P.s. Found your messages and will have a look at your maps later.0 -
There was a small offshoot of Lib Dems for Leave.John_M said:
I'd consider the Lib Dems if they weren't so Europhile. So I guess they wouldn't consider meFF43 said:
I think the Lib Dems have an opportunity, but we don't know if it will be realised after them being invisible for so long. Their case goes something like this:peter_from_putney said:Two Taxi Tim Farron must be encouraged by the LibDems 9% level of support in this latest poll .... surely just about their highest score since last year's G.E.
A lot of people think the Coalition government worked much better than the one that followed. People who voted Remain will particularly think that because of the Brexit disaster (from their POV), but not just Remainers. We can generalise this goodwill to say Lib Dems bring a moderate and competent influence to politics across the board. So it's a just a step for people who might otherwise vote Conservative or Labour to decide we are worth voting for and to switch their votes to us..
There is a clear argument that being Liberal means embracing the 80% of the world which is not in the EU and rejecting the protectionism of the EU. Also the Lib Dems are very much for localism and implementing the EU subsidiarity principle instead of EU centralism.
A Lib Dems 2 Leave web site is at http://www.liberals2leave.eu/
I think about about 25% of Lib Dems voted Leave.
Nick Clegg has now taken over as Lib Dem spokesperson on EU matters so lets hope he reverses Tim Farrons approach to re-join the EU.0 -
Changes from a duff poll are duff by definition. The UKIP figure in this new poll is consistent with the actual election results in May.TheWhiteRabbit said:
A considerable reduction in the UKIP vote is the most interesting part.ThreeQuidder said:
A definite outlier.Sean_F said:
The last one looked like an outlier. But, there's nothing surprising about this. People on the Right who were pissed off with David Cameron's fake renegotiation have switched back to the Tories.nunu said:
When were the tories at 30% with yougov?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2
YouGov/Times 2016-04-26 30 33 6 20 3 -30 -
Well, I think so! Where UKIP from here is more interesting than Labour doing s*** under Corbyn which is basically the narrative from now on.Pulpstar said:
Not really - we've just had Brexit and it is a party awaiting a new leader in transition.TheWhiteRabbit said:
A considerable reduction in the UKIP vote is the most interesting part.ThreeQuidder said:
A definite outlier.Sean_F said:
The last one looked like an outlier. But, there's nothing surprising about this. People on the Right who were pissed off with David Cameron's fake renegotiation have switched back to the Tories.nunu said:
When were the tories at 30% with yougov?TheScreamingEagles said:
http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2
YouGov/Times 2016-04-26 30 33 6 20 3 -30 -
Yes, she was probably the bravest of the modernisers at that time to make that speech.SimonStClare said:
2002 party conference.HurstLlama said:
It was indeed, Mr. Taffys. If I remember correctly it was after Blair had won the 1997 election and it was our current PM who at the Conservative Party conference said, "Some people call us the nasty party" or words very similar to that.taffys said:''Youngsters believing the myths they have been taught rather than learning the history. ''
I think its also fair to say that it was more than a decade after the fall of Thatcher that we first heard the 'nasty party' term.0 -
@PolhomeEditor: Speaking last year, Jeremy Corbyn said: "I don't see any case for nominating peers at all."0
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I haven't forgotten that. However that was under Major, who is on left of the Conservative party. Much of the Tory leaders after him were much more Thatcherite - Hague, IDS etc - which voters didn't like.HurstLlama said:
Miss Apocalypse also seems to forget that after Thatcher the Conservatives won a general election with the highest number of votes ever cast for one party.Casino_Royale said:
Yes.The_Apocalypse said:@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.
You lefties really don't know what Maggie does to us Tory Boys.
Youngsters believing the myths they have been taught rather than learning the history.0 -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36845106
This is what happens when their is no opposition, thanks Corbyn.0 -
Thanks David. I'll have a look. I'm feeling very Tory atm, but you never know, it could all go tits up, and Labour clearly aren't interested in actually running the country.David_Evershed said:
There was a small offshoot of Lib Dems for Leave.John_M said:
I'd consider the Lib Dems if they weren't so Europhile. So I guess they wouldn't consider meFF43 said:
I think the Lib Dems have an opportunity, but we don't know if it will be realised after them being invisible for so long. Their case goes something like this:peter_from_putney said:Two Taxi Tim Farron must be encouraged by the LibDems 9% level of support in this latest poll .... surely just about their highest score since last year's G.E.
A lot of people think the Coalition government worked much better than the one that followed. People who voted Remain will particularly think that because of the Brexit disaster (from their POV), but not just Remainers. We can generalise this goodwill to say Lib Dems bring a moderate and competent influence to politics across the board. So it's a just a step for people who might otherwise vote Conservative or Labour to decide we are worth voting for and to switch their votes to us..
There is a clear argument that being Liberal means embracing the 80% of the world which is not in the EU and rejecting the protectionism of the EU. Also the Lib Dems are very much for localism and implementing the EU subsidiarity principle instead of EU centralism.
A Lib Dems 2 Leave web site is at http://www.liberals2leave.eu/
I think about about 25% of Lib Dems voted Leave.
Nick Clegg has now taken over as Lib Dem spokesperson on EU matters so lets hope he reverses Tim Farrons approach to re-join the EU.0 -
Scott_P said:
@DPJHodges: Bloody hell. Corbyn's office refuses to deny he's offered Shami Chakrabarti a peerage. The "independent" chair of his AS inquiry.
Labour's Warsi?0 -
I'm sure he doesn't, but the system is what it is, he'd be foolish not to take advantage.Scott_P said:@PolhomeEditor: Speaking last year, Jeremy Corbyn said: "I don't see any case for nominating peers at all."
0 -
Security alert in Belgium.0
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I would say that is most unlikely, given his background.David_Evershed said:
There was a small offshoot of Lib Dems for Leave.John_M said:
I'd consider the Lib Dems if they weren't so Europhile. So I guess they wouldn't consider meFF43 said:
I think the Lib Dems have an opportunity, but we don't know if it will be realised after them being invisible for so long. Their case goes something like this:peter_from_putney said:Two Taxi Tim Farron must be encouraged by the LibDems 9% level of support in this latest poll .... surely just about their highest score since last year's G.E.
A lot of people think the Coalition government worked much better than the one that followed. People who voted Remain will particularly think that because of the Brexit disaster (from their POV), but not just Remainers. We can generalise this goodwill to say Lib Dems bring a moderate and competent influence to politics across the board. So it's a just a step for people who might otherwise vote Conservative or Labour to decide we are worth voting for and to switch their votes to us..
There is a clear argument that being Liberal means embracing the 80% of the world which is not in the EU and rejecting the protectionism of the EU. Also the Lib Dems are very much for localism and implementing the EU subsidiarity principle instead of EU centralism.
A Lib Dems 2 Leave web site is at http://www.liberals2leave.eu/
I think about about 25% of Lib Dems voted Leave.
Nick Clegg has now taken over as Lib Dem spokesperson on EU matters so lets hope he reverses Tim Farrons approach to re-join the EU.
There will always be a constituency that would support closer ties with Europe. Even if Brexit goes very well, that constituency will be there, although in such cicurmstances not really a vote winner.
If Brexit goes very badly, all bets are off...0 -
Owen Smith wants a second referendum. Comrade Corbyn for me. But I won't vote. It's not my fight.nunu said:*Calling everyone who loves their country*
We need a strong opposition in this country and yes Smith leaves a lot to be desired but Corbyn is a disaster, and Smith will step down if there is someone better.
Please, please please everyone if u love ur country register to save her Majesty's Loyal opposition.
Tories, I know u love ur country more than party, do ur duty hold ur nose and if u can register as a Labour supporter and vote for Owen Smith.0 -
John_M said:
"The world is changed. I feel it in the water. I feel it in the Earth. I smell it in the air. Much that once was is lost, for none now live who remember it. Specifically, what was the point of the Labour party, again? Anyone got any idea?
Galadriel, spokeself for Lothlorien.
0 -
TM: - "There's a lot we need to do in this party of ours. Our base is too narrow and so, occasionally, are our sympathies. You know what some people call us - the nasty party.williamglenn said:
Yes, she was probably the bravest of the modernisers at that time to make that speech.SimonStClare said:
2002 party conference.HurstLlama said:
It was indeed, Mr. Taffys. If I remember correctly it was after Blair had won the 1997 election and it was our current PM who at the Conservative Party conference said, "Some people call us the nasty party" or words very similar to that.taffys said:''Youngsters believing the myths they have been taught rather than learning the history. ''
I think its also fair to say that it was more than a decade after the fall of Thatcher that we first heard the 'nasty party' term.
I know that's unfair. You know that's unfair but it's the people out there we need to convince - and we can only do that by avoiding behaviour and attitudes that play into the hands of our opponents. No more glib moralising, no more hypocritical finger-wagging.
We need to reach out to all areas of our society."
May's recent leadership speech reveals she's not changed at all in the fundamentals.0 -
I agree with that. And also their inability to be heard. Nick Clegg made a reasonable and not necessarily anti-Brexit, comment this morning that nobody knows what Brexit actually means. If we are all Brexiteers now there is scope to challenge the government and ask, what are you going to do about X, Y, Z?peter_from_putney said:
One of the main problems for the LibDems is that they lost so many of their seats in the West Country, where the demographics seem likely to shift ever more in the Tories' favour over the coming years, in terms of relative wealth and age profile.FF43 said:
I think the Lib Dems have an opportunity, but we don't know if it will be realised after them being invisible for so long. Their case goes something like this:peter_from_putney said:Two Taxi Tim Farron must be encouraged by the LibDems 9% level of support in this latest poll .... surely just about their highest score since last year's G.E.
A lot of people think the Coalition government worked much better than the one that followed. People who voted Remain will particularly think that because of the Brexit disaster (from their POV), but not just Remainers. We can generalise this goodwill to say Lib Dems bring a moderate and competent influence to politics across the board. So it's a just a step for people who might otherwise vote Conservative or Labour to decide we are worth voting for and to switch their votes to us.0 -
He's saying a second vote on the deal, but I think he is being clever trying to get the £3 quidders, u don't have to vote for him at next GE.John_M said:
Owen Smith wants a second referendum. Comrade Corbyn for me. But I won't vote. It's not my fight.nunu said:*Calling everyone who loves their country*
We need a strong opposition in this country and yes Smith leaves a lot to be desired but Corbyn is a disaster, and Smith will step down if there is someone better.
Please, please please everyone if u love ur country register to save her Majesty's Loyal opposition.
Tories, I know u love ur country more than party, do ur duty hold ur nose and if u can register as a Labour supporter and vote for Owen Smith.0 -
While the nasty party as a term was coined in 2002, the image of the Tories as nasty was in existience before that. 2002 was just the first time it was really acknowledged.0
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A year later the REAL Nasty Party bombed and invaded Iraq.....The_Apocalypse said:While the nasty party as a term was coined in 2002, the image of the Tories as nasty was in existience before that. 2002 was just the first time it was really acknowledged.
0 -
These days it's about which party is the lesser evil. The lesser 'nasty party'.Sunil_Prasannan said:
A year later the REAL Nasty Party bombed and invaded Iraq.....The_Apocalypse said:While the nasty party as a term was coined in 2002, the image of the Tories as nasty was in existience before that. 2002 was just the first time it was really acknowledged.
0 -
A lot has changed in over a decade, we know who the nasty party is now.
Does misogynistic abuse mean the Labour party is now the nasty party for women?
Bricks through windows. Rape and death threats. Labour’s women MPs are suffering vile abuse…
https://www.the-pool.com/news-views/politics/2016/28/caroline-criado-perez-on-labour-women-abuse-and-death-threats
0 -
The REAL Nasty Party is yet to elect a female leader...The_Apocalypse said:
These days it's about which party is the lesser evil. The lesser 'nasty party'.Sunil_Prasannan said:
A year later the REAL Nasty Party bombed and invaded Iraq.....The_Apocalypse said:While the nasty party as a term was coined in 2002, the image of the Tories as nasty was in existience before that. 2002 was just the first time it was really acknowledged.
0 -
It's a repeated mistake by both parties that losing elections means that you just weren't [pick your poison] wing enough. It's Labour's turn now, made more difficult by May going One Nation Tory all over its ass.The_Apocalypse said:
I haven't forgotten that. However that was under Major, who is on left of the Conservative party. Much of the Tory leaders after him were much more Thatcherite - Hague, IDS etc - which voters didn't like.HurstLlama said:
Miss Apocalypse also seems to forget that after Thatcher the Conservatives won a general election with the highest number of votes ever cast for one party.Casino_Royale said:
Yes.The_Apocalypse said:@Casino_Royale Where you honestly stimulated by PMQs? Really?
Also, I agree with @valleyboy re the Thatcher comparisons. It's partly that time period and the fall out from it that meant the Tories were seen as the nasty party and had to modernise in the first place.
You lefties really don't know what Maggie does to us Tory Boys.
Youngsters believing the myths they have been taught rather than learning the history.
Don't despair, there will be plenty of right wingers who think May's speech makes her a TINO.0 -
Well, a few peers in the Cabinet usually shore up support for the PM. It's another way Corbyn has shot himself in the foot.kle4 said:
I'm sure he doesn't, but the system is what it is, he'd be foolish not to take advantage.Scott_P said:@PolhomeEditor: Speaking last year, Jeremy Corbyn said: "I don't see any case for nominating peers at all."
0 -
nunu. I love my country and it has pained me more than I can say over the years to see the vile Labour party deliberately screwing it up - from spin, to Iraq, to 'rubbing their noses in it', to 'there's no money left', to basically everything they have ever touched going to shite. I think it would be wholly to the good of everyone if Labour now died. Something on the left will emerge to replace it. There will be a proper opposition at some point. But the imminent death of Labour is a major popcorn moment for all decent people.0
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It took some confidence to take the risk of tripping up over the word nasty. The soundbite could have gone horribly wrong.SimonStClare said:
TM: - "There's a lot we need to do in this party of ours. Our base is too narrow and so, occasionally, are our sympathies. You know what some people call us - the nasty party."williamglenn said:
Yes, she was probably the bravest of the modernisers at that time to make that speech.SimonStClare said:
2002 party conference.HurstLlama said:
It was indeed, Mr. Taffys. If I remember correctly it was after Blair had won the 1997 election and it was our current PM who at the Conservative Party conference said, "Some people call us the nasty party" or words very similar to that.taffys said:''Youngsters believing the myths they have been taught rather than learning the history. ''
I think its also fair to say that it was more than a decade after the fall of Thatcher that we first heard the 'nasty party' term.0 -
Of far more importance - had the experience of travelling from Point Pleasant Junction to East Putney on a South West Trains service yesterday evening. The train went through the likes of Southfields and Wimbledon Park before turning off the District Line at East Putney to rejoin the main line just west of Wandsworth Town.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The REAL Nasty Party is yet to elect a female leader...
0 -
Nah, I paid my £3 a year ago for a bit of fun, I'm not paying £25 for another go. :-)PlatoSaid said:
How many £3ers have become £25ers is key. If your vote in 2015 won it for Comrade Corbyn, I'd imagine you'd fork out £25 to keep him there.Bob__Sykes said:
I feel quite sorry for the Labour Party, being taken over by a bunch of whackjob lefties. One can't help feeling the coup attempt has flooded the party with new and more hardcore/radical members, it will make Corbyn even more entrenched, the Labour Party even more left wing, and even further removed from power.kle4 said:
It's either a moment of surprise revolution, or incredible blindness - Labour membership has never been more popular in modern times, and either they really are more reflective of the wider public than we think, or might prove appealing to it more than we think, or it is a party making itself unelectable in a really extreme way by total choice.PlatoSaid said:
Holy Hell.Tissue_Price said:@STJamesl
Am hearing that by close of play around 150k people will have become registered supporters in the Labour leadership contest
Blimey, they should have made it £100 a pop.
That's stunning if true.
[chuckles]
(I guess you weren't addressing that to me though!)0 -
It's just so, so completely transparent.nunu said:
He's saying a second vote on the deal, but I think he is being clever trying to get the £3 quidders, u don't have to vote for him at next GE.John_M said:
Owen Smith wants a second referendum. Comrade Corbyn for me. But I won't vote. It's not my fight.nunu said:*Calling everyone who loves their country*
We need a strong opposition in this country and yes Smith leaves a lot to be desired but Corbyn is a disaster, and Smith will step down if there is someone better.
Please, please please everyone if u love ur country register to save her Majesty's Loyal opposition.
Tories, I know u love ur country more than party, do ur duty hold ur nose and if u can register as a Labour supporter and vote for Owen Smith.0 -
Sun already used it.Thrak said:Kudos to the Mirror for coming up with. 'Maggie May'!
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/who-won-pmqs-maggie-channels-84543780 -
Did you do it in daylight? I thought that train only ran around midnight. I have yet to do it!stodge said:
Of far more importance - had the experience of travelling from Point Pleasant Junction to East Putney on a South West Trains service yesterday evening. The train went through the likes of Southfields and Wimbledon Park before turning off the District Line at East Putney to rejoin the main line just west of Wandsworth Town.Sunil_Prasannan said:
The REAL Nasty Party is yet to elect a female leader...0 -
The £3/£25ers can do it without you, me and Plato this time. Nevertheless I wish them well - probably a thoughtcrime in @Jobabob world mind.Bob__Sykes said:
Nah, I paid my £3 a year ago for a bit of fun, I'm not paying £25 for another go. :-)PlatoSaid said:
How many £3ers have become £25ers is key. If your vote in 2015 won it for Comrade Corbyn, I'd imagine you'd fork out £25 to keep him there.Bob__Sykes said:
I feel quite sorry for the Labour Party, being taken over by a bunch of whackjob lefties. One can't help feeling the coup attempt has flooded the party with new and more hardcore/radical members, it will make Corbyn even more entrenched, the Labour Party even more left wing, and even further removed from power.kle4 said:
It's either a moment of surprise revolution, or incredible blindness - Labour membership has never been more popular in modern times, and either they really are more reflective of the wider public than we think, or might prove appealing to it more than we think, or it is a party making itself unelectable in a really extreme way by total choice.PlatoSaid said:
Holy Hell.Tissue_Price said:@STJamesl
Am hearing that by close of play around 150k people will have become registered supporters in the Labour leadership contest
Blimey, they should have made it £100 a pop.
That's stunning if true.
[chuckles]
(I guess you weren't addressing that to me though!)0
![[Deleted User]](https://wd.vanillicon.com/d2ea526b1b06ed109333f390c7ae956b_100.png)
