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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » May’s first PMQs: She’s going be a challenge for either Cor

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  • DisraeliDisraeli Posts: 1,106

    I just saw the 'remind him of anybody' clip.

    Bloody hell. It pushed so many of my Tory buttons, I think I need to lie down.

    Watched it three times just to be sure....
    That was rehearsed - even down to the body language. A Margaret Thatcher dog whistle.
    Very well executed.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    Just been reminded that could be the only May v Corbyn PMQs. Remarkable.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    Reading the FT over lunch. An interesting article about the position of the City re Brexit. Much less doom and gloom than their usual fare which is why it's buried at the back of the companies supplement. The consensus seems to be that not a lot will change and since London is far more than just EUR trading it's difficult to see why anything outside of that will change, if that does at all. Finally the FT seems to have taken notice of London's deep capital markets as a reason why European companies may just defy the EU and stay in London anyway ignoring any calls to come home.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,655

    What is noticeable about Corbyn is he just ploughs on regardless. Some of the questions are fine but he doesn't seem to engage in any debate AT ALL. I think that's a mistake. It means the PM always has the last word on things.

    He's just not very bright. He mixes up unrelated things in a single question (for example today, housing and piccaninnies), leaving the PM free to choose whichever bit of his rambling is most convenient for a counter-thrust.
    I thought the R5L analysis was totally wrong on PMQs - questions on personality like Boris in the end don't get the opposition anywhere and are just asking for an evasion since in the end it doesn't matter.

    Personally I think he should have prepped up 7 or 8 questions on say housing and childcare costs. The result may have been similiar, but when a question on substance are dodged (Or not) then you create evasion, long term hostages to fortune and potential future booby traps.

    Orgreave is too niche, and asking about Boris is just asking for comebacks in kind.
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    I read that the Wallasey constituency Labour Party has been suspended due to claims of bullying and intimidation. Over the Weekend I was told that the Brighton and Hove Constituency Labour Party had similarly been suspended. WTF is going on?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    @MichaelLCrick: Owen Smith has just held a campaign meeting for MPs and peers at Westminster with Angela Eagle alongside him, I was told, "as his deputy"
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    Pulpstar said:

    Orgreave is too niche, and asking about Boris is just asking for comebacks in kind.

    Andrew Sparrow pointed out that Orgreave, whilst of no interest whatsoever to normal people, is a hot-button issue for some of the Labour leadership selectorate.
  • runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    MaxPB said:

    Reading the FT over lunch. An interesting article about the position of the City re Brexit. Much less doom and gloom than their usual fare which is why it's buried at the back of the companies supplement. The consensus seems to be that not a lot will change and since London is far more than just EUR trading it's difficult to see why anything outside of that will change, if that does at all. Finally the FT seems to have taken notice of London's deep capital markets as a reason why European companies may just defy the EU and stay in London anyway ignoring any calls to come home.

    Is the editor on holiday?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,717
    edited July 2016

    Cookie said:

    FPT: David Herdson said:
    "yes, but they're also balanced by 'the rest'. California is still only about 20% overall. England within the UK would be even larger than Prussia within the German Empire. i can't think of another federation where one component accounts for 80% of the whole.

    The logical solution is to implement it on a regional basis within England, particularly as London already has its own devolution deal.

    Morris Dancer is, I believe, a big fan of the idea"

    This is similar to John Prescott's approach in the early years of this century. Unfortunately, it didn't get much support and was roundly rejected in a referendum in the North East. The English, it seems, don't want to be broken up.

    Philip Johnston writes interestingly on the subject of the relationship between the constituent parts of the UK in the Telegraph today: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/to-preserve-the-union-we-might-have-to-go-our-separate-ways/

    We just need to seperate England and London. It's simple - so simple it's becoming embarrassing it isn't being widely proposed.
    Why? There is no real demand for it and will not be unless Paris or NYC also become independent city states (which would probably require a President Trump and Le Pen to even be on the table). More devolution to county and city councils and London, Scotland, Wales and NI is the best solution
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 62,078
    edited July 2016
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Too sodding humid. Clouds but no rain. The promised thunderstorms are yet to arrive. Forecast now showing no rain that at least it'll be 'only' 16C tonight.

    Saw the main exchange of PMQs. May might have overcooked it a shade, but better that than the stumbling feebleness of Brown's first outing.

    The Thatcherism wasn't subliminal, or a dogwhistle. It was a foghorn. It couldn't've been more blatant if she'd smacked Corbyn in the face with a handbag.

    Edited extra bit: but 82% humidity during the early hours. Ugh.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,655

    I read that the Wallasey constituency Labour Party has been suspended due to claims of bullying and intimidation. Over the Weekend I was told that the Brighton and Hove Constituency Labour Party had similarly been suspended. WTF is going on?

    The Labour party taking notes form Erdogan... anyway the entire Labour party, Blairites, Corbynistas, Moderates, progress, momentum, all of it, all of IT the whole nine yards needs to be utterly crushed at the next GE.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180
    Scott_P said:

    PMQs set the tone for May's term

    Labour (the official opposition) are irrelevant as long as Corbyn is in post.

    The real enemy are the backbench Tory headbangers who are still on their Brexit quest

    Yup - that was very noticeable with both Davies and the red-faced one who I forget. I hope they are going to be disappointed.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454

    Pulpstar said:

    Orgreave is too niche, and asking about Boris is just asking for comebacks in kind.

    Andrew Sparrow pointed out that Orgreave, whilst of no interest whatsoever to normal people, is a hot-button issue for some of the Labour leadership selectorate.
    I think Orgreave could, in the hands of an effective politic machine, be part of a fairly effective Labour narrative. However none of the other pieces of the puzzle are there and neither is the skill.

    Therefore I agree with Sparrow's assessment.
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Pulpstar said:

    Orgreave is too niche, and asking about Boris is just asking for comebacks in kind.

    Andrew Sparrow pointed out that Orgreave, whilst of no interest whatsoever to normal people, is a hot-button issue for some of the Labour leadership selectorate.
    That something from the 80s is hot-button-issue speaks volumes.

    When Orgreave was in the news Ali was gambling away the Cafe in EastEnders and Sue was livid. I was a teenager.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,655

    Pulpstar said:

    Orgreave is too niche, and asking about Boris is just asking for comebacks in kind.

    Andrew Sparrow pointed out that Orgreave, whilst of no interest whatsoever to normal people, is a hot-button issue for some of the Labour leadership selectorate.
    Yes but with Andy Burnham reading a statement on it just after PMQs...
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,257
    Disraeli said:

    I just saw the 'remind him of anybody' clip.

    Bloody hell. It pushed so many of my Tory buttons, I think I need to lie down.

    Watched it three times just to be sure....
    That was rehearsed - even down to the body language. A Margaret Thatcher dog whistle.
    Very well executed.
    Channelling my inner TSE, it was a bloody great foghorn, not a dogwhistle.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,717
    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Disraeli said:



    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.

    s...
    That's what Daniel Hannan thinks but it might mean ditching the euro, and an awful lot else, and they love it.

    I agree, however it wouldn't be a bad thing for the UK tnd: If Scotland were independent today, what kind of arrangement might it chose to join?

    The English might also finally learn something about what federalism really means.
    Federalism wouldn't work in the British Isles - England is just too big.

    For the same reason, plus the rise of Nationalism, the UK has no long-term future either.

    We cause we know it will be difficult and messy.
    Why? In the US Texas and California are about as many times bigger than Vermont and Wyoming as England is bigger than Scotland and Wales
    yes, but they're also balanced by 'the rest'. California is still only about 20% overall. England within the UK would be even larger than Prussia within the German Empire. i can't think of another federation where one component accounts for 80% of the whole.

    The logical solution is to implement it on a regional basis within England, particularly as London already has its own devolution deal.

    Morris Dancer is, I believe, a big fan of the idea.
    Yes but the UK is already almost a century older than the U.S., personally I have no problem with regional assemblies or if they are not popular enough at least devolution of powers to county and city councils
    Agree that some sort of regional tier makes sense. Prescott tried it but found people didn't want four tiers of UK government and, as ever, drawing the boundaries is fraught with difficulty. It works in London because the GLA boundary is long-standing and because there is only one tier of local government beneath.

    Labour responded to the rejection of regional councils by renewing the drive towards unitary authorities, which I would guess now cover more than half the country. But there are still lots of rural areas with both district and county councils, plus parishes, which make adding a further tier problematic.
    More power for county councils probably the best answer
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334
    Message from our local party chair, "orgasmic".
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    Pulpstar said:

    Orgreave is too niche, and asking about Boris is just asking for comebacks in kind.

    Andrew Sparrow pointed out that Orgreave, whilst of no interest whatsoever to normal people, is a hot-button issue for some of the Labour leadership selectorate.
    Orgreave happened more than thirty years ago, probably before a big chunk of the Labour selectorate were even born and almost certainly the majority were too young to have understood. If things of which they have no living experience are hot-button issues, is that not clear evidence of a party determined to live in the past?

    What Mr. Observer finds so attractive about the current Labour Party that he rejoined it is beyond me.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,450
    #Theresa!
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    Too sodding humid. Clouds but no rain. The promised thunderstorms are yet to arrive. Forecast now showing no rain that at least it'll be 'only' 16C tonight.

    Saw the main exchange of PMQs. May might have overcooked it a shade, but better that than the stumbling feebleness of Brown's first outing.

    The Thatcherism wasn't subliminal, or a dogwhistle. It was a foghorn. It couldn't've been more blatant if she'd smacked Corbyn in the face with a handbag.

    Yup.

    I desperately want it to rain. Got up at 0600 and it was 26.5C. It's gone down to 26C with 70% humidity/all cloudy. Urgh. I yearn for 16C!!
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,180

    runnymede said:

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
    Well the behaviour of several site regulars over the last couple of months has been fairly unedifying.

    Still, as they managed to call the referendum completely wrongly despite their smug self-satisfaction we can be cheerful.
    Yes, this is true.

    We should all move on now.
    We should but different people take different times to work through their grief. That some still seem to be in denial, let alone the later stages, should be no surprise. Most people get to the end and come out of it at some point, though some never do.
    Hmmm - it was the questions from the 2 headbangers on the Tory benches which most obviously showed an unwillingness to move on.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,261
    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    FPT: David Herdson said:
    "yes, but they're also balanced by 'the rest'. California is still only about 20% overall. England within the UK would be even larger than Prussia within the German Empire. i can't think of another federation where one component accounts for 80% of the whole.

    The logical solution is to implement it on a regional basis within England, particularly as London already has its own devolution deal.

    Morris Dancer is, I believe, a big fan of the idea"

    This is similar to John Prescott's approach in the early years of this century. Unfortunately, it didn't get much support and was roundly rejected in a referendum in the North East. The English, it seems, don't want to be broken up.

    Philip Johnston writes interestingly on the subject of the relationship between the constituent parts of the UK in the Telegraph today: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/to-preserve-the-union-we-might-have-to-go-our-separate-ways/

    We just need to seperate England and London. It's simple - so simple it's becoming embarrassing it isn't being widely proposed.
    Why? There is no real demand for it and will not be unless Paris or NYC also become independent city states (which would probably require a President Trump and Le Pen to even be on the table). More devolution to county and city councils and London, Scotland, Wales and NI is the best solution
    Because together, they're too big, and cut up into regions, it denies England the opportunities given to Scotland.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Pulpstar said:

    Orgreave is too niche, and asking about Boris is just asking for comebacks in kind.

    Andrew Sparrow pointed out that Orgreave, whilst of no interest whatsoever to normal people, is a hot-button issue for some of the Labour leadership selectorate.
    Orgreave happened more than thirty years ago, probably before a big chunk of the Labour selectorate were even born and almost certainly the majority were too young to have understood. If things of which they have no living experience are hot-button issues, is that not clear evidence of a party determined to live in the past?

    What Mr. Observer finds so attractive about the current Labour Party that he rejoined it is beyond me.
    One characteristic of Jezza is that he never forgets, never moves on, never changes his pre-formed opinions. It doesn't surprise me that he wants to re-fight the miners strike. Perhaps it is May pretending to be Maggie that has sparked him wanting to be Scargill.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 24,365

    I read that the Wallasey constituency Labour Party has been suspended due to claims of bullying and intimidation. Over the Weekend I was told that the Brighton and Hove Constituency Labour Party had similarly been suspended. WTF is going on?

    Brighton had a Corbynista takeover of the Elected positions. Don't know about Wallasey.
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    Just watched the 10 mind Corbyn/May section of PMQ's. My first thought was Corbyn's physical and mental health won't hold till 2020. He's clearly a broken man. The second thought is May's clearly deliberate Thatcher impression needs to be viewed in context of Mondays clearly scripted answer on using Nukes. The third thought is, as SeanT says, she's clearly spent 6 years looking contemptuously at the Posh Bots and thought she could do better. The psychological impact of getting the top job from the ashes of Cameron's ruined premiership has clearly had an enormous impact on her.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Disraeli said:



    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.

    s...
    That's what Daniel Hannan thinks but it might mean ditching the euro, and an awful lot else, and they love it.

    I agree, however it wouldn't be a bad thing for the UK tnd: If Scotland were independent today, what kind of arrangement might it chose to join?

    The English might also finally learn something about what federalism really means.
    Federalism wouldn't work in the British Isles - England is just too big.

    For the same reason, plus the rise of Nationalism, the UK has no long-term future either.

    We cause we know it will be difficult and messy.
    Why? In the US Texas and California are about as many times bigger than Vermont and Wyoming as England is bigger than Scotland and Wales
    yes, but they're also balanced by 'the rest'. California is still only

    Morris Dancer is, I believe, a big fan of the idea.
    Yes but the UK is already almost a century older than the U.S., personally I have no problem with regional assemblies or if they are not popular enough at least devolution of powers to county and city councils
    Agree that some sort of regional tier makes sense. Prescott tried it but found people didn't want four tiers of UK government and, as ever, drawing the boundaries is fraught with difficulty. It works in London because the GLA boundary is long-standing and because there is only one tier of local government beneath.

    Labour responded to the rejection of regional councils by renewing the drive towards unitary authorities, which I would guess now cover more than half the country. But there are still lots of rural areas with both district and county councils, plus parishes, which make adding a further tier problematic.
    More power for county councils probably the best answer
    People have loyalty and affinity to their county councils, they are the natural form of sub-national government in England. Several counties have populations comparable to the devolved nations.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,427
    Patrick said:

    Wales is an economic basket case and simply can't stand alone. That doesn't apply to Scotland. If they'd rather join the EU, more power to 'em.

    Erm....Scotland runs a monster deficit. The UK runs a deficit but England, relatively speaking, subsidises Scotland to the tune of over £9bn a year. If Scotland goes they either join the Euro (!!!) or they go truly independent (central bank, currency, debt, etc). Scotland COULD be independent but to do so would require a balancing of the books that makes George Osborne's tax credit removal look like an episode of teletubbies. Ain't gonna happen. Scotland can have independence or socialism but not both. To be viable, as you claim, would require a massive return to the political economy of Adam Smith. A very small state running a surplus. The SNP is more at the Corbyn end of the spectrum.

    There is a simple, if brutal, solution. We drastically reduce public spending. Independence isn't sensible, but then Brexit wasn't sensible, but people still voted for it (in just high enough numbers) for it to go ahead. It just requires a 7% swing from last time for independence to achieve the same proportion of voters as the UK leaving the EU. I regret it, but exiting is the theme of the moment.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453

    Just watched the 10 mind Corbyn/May section of PMQ's. My first thought was Corbyn's physical and mental health won't hold till 2020. He's clearly a broken man.

    The contributions from the Labour back benches were arguably worse
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Jeremy Corbyn will be a defendant in the legal challenge to his automatic inclusion on the Labour leadership ballot, the high court has decided.

    Lawyers for the Labour leader successfully argued he had a right to be heard in the case because his interests were not the same as those of Labour’s general secretary, Iain McNicol, who had previously been the only named defendant in the case brought by a Labour donor. Corbyn and McNicol will have separate legal teams.

    The legal challenge, brought by former parliamentary candidate Michael Foster, contests the decision of Labour’s national executive committee to allow Corbyn on the ballot paper without having to secure nominations from Labour MPs.

    McNicol was being sued in a representative capacity but Corbyn requested to be added to the proceedings as second defendant.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/20/jeremy-corbyn-wins-right-to-be-defendant-in-leadership-court-case
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,717

    HYUFD said:

    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Disraeli said:



    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.

    s...
    That's what Daniel Hannan thinks but it might mean ditching the euro, and an awful lot else, and they love it.

    I agree, however it wouldn't be a bad thing for the UK tnd: If Scotland were independent today, what kind of arrangement might it chose to join?

    The English might also finally learn something about what federalism really means.
    Federalism wouldn't work in the British Isles - England is just too big.

    For the same reason, plus the rise of Nationalism, the UK has no long-term future either.

    We cause we know it will be difficult and messy.
    Why? In the US Texas and California are about as many times bigger than Vermont and Wyoming as England is bigger than Scotland and Wales
    yes, but they're also balanced by 'the rest'. California is still only

    Morris Dancer is, I believe, a big fan of the idea.
    Yes but the UK is already almost a century older than the U.S., personally I have no problem with regional assemblies or if they are not popular enough at least devolution of powers to county and city councils
    Agree that some sort of regional tier makes sense. Prescott tried it but found people didn't want four tiers of UK government and, as ever, drawing the boundaries is fraught with difficulty. It works in London because the GLA boundary is long-standing and because there is only one tier of local government beneath.

    Labour responded to the rejection of regional councils by renewing the drive towards unitary authorities, which I would guess now cover more than half the country. But there are still lots of rural areas with both district and county councils, plus parishes, which make adding a further tier problematic.
    More power for county councils probably the best answer
    People have loyalty and affinity to their county councils, they are the natural form of sub-national government in England. Several counties have populations comparable to the devolved nations.
    Indeed, Kent, Essex, Lancashire etc have populations in the millions
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 994

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
    But May has put Leadsom to fail with the farmers.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    Just watched the 10 mind Corbyn/May section of PMQ's. My first thought was Corbyn's physical and mental health won't hold till 2020. He's clearly a broken man. The second thought is May's clearly deliberate Thatcher impression needs to be viewed in context of Mondays clearly scripted answer on using Nukes. The third thought is, as SeanT says, she's clearly spent 6 years looking contemptuously at the Posh Bots and thought she could do better. The psychological impact of getting the top job from the ashes of Cameron's ruined premiership has clearly had an enormous impact on her.

    People have been calling Corbyn 'a broken man' for months. Let me digress with a parable.

    Once, on holiday in Kenya, I was browbeaten into participating in a Masai folk dance. I didn't understand what the dance was about, but managed to shamble through the steps, being completely outclassed by the natives. I was useless, but didn't mind because it didn't matter.

    That's Corbyn. He has his eye on a grander prize. Every now and then he has to ask some woman questions, or chair the Shadow Cabinet or talk to a journalist. These are all just distractions to the actual job at hand. Completely irrelevant.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Didn't Theresa stand in for Dave a few times at PMQs while she was Home Sec or have I imagined that.

    And I don't think Watson looks unhappy. Just sound asleep.
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    Just watched the 10 mind Corbyn/May section of PMQ's. My first thought was Corbyn's physical and mental health won't hold till 2020. He's clearly a broken man. The second thought is May's clearly deliberate Thatcher impression needs to be viewed in context of Mondays clearly scripted answer on using Nukes. The third thought is, as SeanT says, she's clearly spent 6 years looking contemptuously at the Posh Bots and thought she could do better. The psychological impact of getting the top job from the ashes of Cameron's ruined premiership has clearly had an enormous impact on her.

    Corbyn has only had a gleam in his eye and spring in his step once in the last few weeks. This was when he left the NEC on the ballot. He seems to only relish the battle against his enemies in the party, not against other parties.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 124,717

    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    FPT: David Herdson said:
    "yes, but they're also balanced by 'the rest'. California is still only about 20% overall. England within the UK would be even larger than Prussia within the German Empire. i can't think of another federation where one component accounts for 80% of the whole.

    The logical solution is to implement it on a regional basis within England, particularly as London already has its own devolution deal.

    Morris Dancer is, I believe, a big fan of the idea"

    This is similar to John Prescott's approach in the early years of this century. Unfortunately, it didn't get much support and was roundly rejected in a referendum in the North East. The English, it seems, don't want to be broken up.

    Philip Johnston writes interestingly on the subject of the relationship between the constituent parts of the UK in the Telegraph today: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/to-preserve-the-union-we-might-have-to-go-our-separate-ways/

    We just need to seperate England and London. It's simple - so simple it's becoming embarrassing it isn't being widely proposed.
    Why? There is no real demand for it and will not be unless Paris or NYC also become independent city states (which would probably require a President Trump and Le Pen to even be on the table). More devolution to county and city councils and London, Scotland, Wales and NI is the best solution
    Because together, they're too big, and cut up into regions, it denies England the opportunities given to Scotland.
    Give London more devolution along with everywhere else
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409

    Didn't Theresa stand in for Dave a few times at PMQs while she was Home Sec or have I imagined that.

    And I don't think Watson looks unhappy. Just sound asleep.

    You have.

    Dave's stand ins at PMQs were Nick Clegg, William Hague, and George Osborne
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,709


    People have loyalty and affinity to their county councils, they are the natural form of sub-national government in England. Several counties have populations comparable to the devolved nations.

    This totally makes sense. Standardize the local-ish things at the county level. If some of the counties are too small, merge them together.
  • chestnutchestnut Posts: 7,341
    edited July 2016
    More euro-folly;

    http://www.euronews.com/newswires/3222998-eu-national-climate-goals-test-blocs-resolve-amid-brexit/

    It seems they have planned for the UK to do a sizeable chunk of the EU's heavy lifting on climate targets. A few nations are about to find that their lot will get considerably more arduous once we are gone.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    Was Cameron at PMQ's today? I saw Osborne but couldn't spot Cameron.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,931
    Icarus said:

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
    But May has put Leadsom to fail with the farmers.
    Yes; it was a pretty mean promotion in a Brexit world. Second only to Northern Ireland in terms of "not fun at all, high chance of f*ck up".
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    jonny83 said:

    Was Cameron at PMQ's today? I saw Osborne but couldn't spot Cameron.

    No, he was absent. Probably a courtesy.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    Re: Orgreave being an older issue than most of Corbyn's cheerleaders is irrelevant. I've lost count of the number of spotty teenage Trots who were born up to 10 years after MT left office spouting venom about 'Fatcha' and the poor heroic miners.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,931
    How about - instead of thinking of how we give power to politicians (ohhh... shall we have another devolved assembly?) we start thinking about how we can take it away from them?
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    edited July 2016

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    My two thoughts on watching the PMQs highlights (before logging on here) were (1) Maggie Reborn and (2) how on earth would Leadsom have coped?!

    A barnstorming debut, to cap off an impressive first week.

    I think the Mays will be in No 10 for quite some time!
  • foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548
    edited July 2016


    People have loyalty and affinity to their county councils, they are the natural form of sub-national government in England. Several counties have populations comparable to the devolved nations.

    This totally makes sense. Standardize the local-ish things at the county level. If some of the counties are too small, merge them together.
    There are a few like Rutland or Isle of Wight that are rather school, but most are in the range 0.5 to 1 million. A few are over 2 million. Artificial combinations are likely to be poorly received.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ceremonial_counties_of_England?wprov=sfla1
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    rcs1000 said:

    How about - instead of thinking of how we give power to politicians (ohhh... shall we have another devolved assembly?) we start thinking about how we can take it away from them?

    Indeed.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,723
    edited July 2016
    Patrick said:

    Wales is an economic basket case and simply can't stand alone. That doesn't apply to Scotland. If they'd rather join the EU, more power to 'em.

    Erm....Scotland runs a monster deficit. The UK runs a deficit but England, relatively speaking, subsidises Scotland to the tune of over £9bn a year. If Scotland goes they either join the Euro (!!!) or they go truly independent (central bank, currency, debt, etc). Scotland COULD be independent but to do so would require a balancing of the books that makes George Osborne's tax credit removal look like an episode of teletubbies. Ain't gonna happen. Scotland can have independence or socialism but not both. To be viable, as you claim, would require a massive return to the political economy of Adam Smith. A very small state running a surplus. The SNP is more at the Corbyn end of the spectrum.

    Patrick , your arse. England mismanages Scotland and borrows money that it does not spend in Scotland, wastes on crap like Trident etc but charges Scotland interest for it. A bllody scam. If you are talking about borrowing , why is England borrowing £100B a year you halfwit.

    PS: over the last 30 years we would have run a surplus.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    My two thoughts on watching the PMQs highlights (before logging on here) were (1) Maggie Reborn and (2) how on earth would Leadsom have coped?!

    A barnstorming debut, to cap off an impressive first week.

    I think the Mays will be in No 10 for quite some time!
    I think she will fight 2020 but don't see her fighting 2025. Suspect she will go 2022/3 after 6/7 years.
  • IcarusIcarus Posts: 994
    edited July 2016
    May - 18 months max.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    edited July 2016
    Ukip Councillor Terence Nathan Calls For Remainers To Be Killed

    ‘No need for threats just a bullet.’

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ukip-councillor-terence-nathan-calls-for-remainers-to-be-killed_uk_578f48a8e4b0b545e5cc0975?5prsv51vmgg44pldi
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,783
    edited July 2016

    Pulpstar said:

    Orgreave is too niche, and asking about Boris is just asking for comebacks in kind.

    Andrew Sparrow pointed out that Orgreave, whilst of no interest whatsoever to normal people, is a hot-button issue for some of the Labour leadership selectorate.
    Orgreave happened more than thirty years ago, probably before a big chunk of the Labour selectorate were even born and almost certainly the majority were too young to have understood. If things of which they have no living experience are hot-button issues, is that not clear evidence of a party determined to live in the past?

    What Mr. Observer finds so attractive about the current Labour Party that he rejoined it is beyond me.

    I don't find it attractive. I want to do all I can to change it.That being a better option than starting from scratch. I went through all this in the 1980s and know how the hard left work and what it thinks. Maybe I can be of some service. We'll have to see how it turns out. I am not hopeful, but you never know.

  • rural_voterrural_voter Posts: 2,038


    People have loyalty and affinity to their county councils, they are the natural form of sub-national government in England. Several counties have populations comparable to the devolved nations.

    This totally makes sense. Standardize the local-ish things at the county level. If some of the counties are too small, merge them together.
    Agreed. The police forces in England and Wales already are divided into roughly county-sized units.
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    Didn't Theresa stand in for Dave a few times at PMQs while she was Home Sec or have I imagined that.

    And I don't think Watson looks unhappy. Just sound asleep.

    You have.

    Dave's stand ins at PMQs were Nick Clegg, William Hague, and George Osborne
    thanks. what strange dreams i have.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,723
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    FPT: David Herdson said:


    Philip Johnston writes interestingly on the subject of the relationship between the constituent parts of the UK in the Telegraph today: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/to-preserve-the-union-we-might-have-to-go-our-separate-ways/

    We just need to seperate England and London. It's simple - so simple it's becoming embarrassing it isn't being widely proposed.
    Why? There is no real demand for it and will not be unless Paris or NYC also become independent city states (which would probably require a President Trump and Le Pen to even be on the table). More devolution to county and city councils and London, Scotland, Wales and NI is the best solution
    Because together, they're too big, and cut up into regions, it denies England the opportunities given to Scotland.
    Give London more devolution along with everywhere else
    Stop spending all our money on London more liek, make the beggars pay their way instead of sponging.
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506
    rcs1000 said:

    Icarus said:

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
    But May has put Leadsom to fail with the farmers.
    Yes; it was a pretty mean promotion in a Brexit world. Second only to Northern Ireland in terms of "not fun at all, high chance of f*ck up".
    Worst is Home Office then C of the E then NI.

    After those they are all a doddle.
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    rcs1000 said:

    How about - instead of thinking of how we give power to politicians (ohhh... shall we have another devolved assembly?) we start thinking about how we can take it away from them?

    A coup?
  • Bob__SykesBob__Sykes Posts: 1,179
    MaxPB said:

    Just caught the put down of Farron. Cold blooded.

    The one bum note today for the PM I thought. I think that was what prompted the "sigh" as she sat down, thinking that the last remark hadn't quite worked. No matter, job done and she can be well satisfied with her first week on the domestic front.

    Now to Germany and France to get cracking on the really rather pressing business we need to sort out....
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405
    ToryJim said:

    Re: Orgreave being an older issue than most of Corbyn's cheerleaders is irrelevant. I've lost count of the number of spotty teenage Trots who were born up to 10 years after MT left office spouting venom about 'Fatcha' and the poor heroic miners.

    Trots? No, they are Leninists, shurely!

    http://www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=leaflets&subName=display&leafletId=89
  • MarkHopkinsMarkHopkins Posts: 5,584
    edited July 2016
    .
  • David_EvershedDavid_Evershed Posts: 6,506

    Didn't Theresa stand in for Dave a few times at PMQs while she was Home Sec or have I imagined that.

    And I don't think Watson looks unhappy. Just sound asleep.

    You have.

    Dave's stand ins at PMQs were Nick Clegg, William Hague, and George Osborne
    Hague was best, next Clegg and last Osborne.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    edited July 2016
    I think the comparisons with Thatcher are being overdone. May does not come across as being anything like as brash, bossy or domineering as Thatcher did . Nor does she arouse such strong feelings on either side. Many on the Labour side genuinely despised Thatcher and saw her as pure evil - they do not feel that way about Theresa May.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405

    Didn't Theresa stand in for Dave a few times at PMQs while she was Home Sec or have I imagined that.

    And I don't think Watson looks unhappy. Just sound asleep.

    You have.

    Dave's stand ins at PMQs were Nick Clegg, William Hague, and George Osborne
    Where's yer George now?

    :lol:
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191

    Ukip Councillor Terence Nathan Calls For Remainers To Be Killed

    ‘No need for threats just a bullet.’

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ukip-councillor-terence-nathan-calls-for-remainers-to-be-killed_uk_578f48a8e4b0b545e5cc0975?5prsv51vmgg44pldi

    Charming!
  • HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    MattW said:

    I read that the Wallasey constituency Labour Party has been suspended due to claims of bullying and intimidation. Over the Weekend I was told that the Brighton and Hove Constituency Labour Party had similarly been suspended. WTF is going on?

    Brighton had a Corbynista takeover of the Elected positions. Don't know about Wallasey.
    Thanks, Mr. W. So Brighton & Hove CLP some sort of entryist coup in support of the party leader. The result of this is that the party leadership (minus probably the actual party leader) suspends the CLP. Bonkers doesn't begin to describe it.

    I am starting to think the mr. Star's comment upthread that the Labour Party needs to be utterly crushed at the 2020 GE might be for the best. Maybe if that happens we might get a Party capable of holding the government to account and even being an alternative government in due course.

    Mind you if Patrick, gent of this Parish, would re-publish his manifesto and we could get some seriously monied people to back him, maybe we could get the Partrick Party up under starters orders for 2020.
  • Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @britainelects: Westminster voting intention:
    CON: 40% (+10)
    LAB: 29% (-4)
    UKIP: 12% (-8)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)
    GRN: 3% (-)
    (via YouGov / 17-18/07)
    Chgs. from April
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 61,257
    Icarus said:

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
    But May has put Leadsom to fail with the farmers.
    I don't think May is making appointments with the goal of failure in mind.

    Leadsom looked pleased with the promotion. It is now a challenge she can step up to.

    I also rate George Eustice and Therese Coffey who've been appointed to support her.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,944

    Ukip Councillor Terence Nathan Calls For Remainers To Be Killed

    ‘No need for threats just a bullet.’

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ukip-councillor-terence-nathan-calls-for-remainers-to-be-killed_uk_578f48a8e4b0b545e5cc0975?5prsv51vmgg44pldi

    Now that link has gone '404' (should be 303 really).
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405
    MaxPB said:

    Message from our local party chair, "orgasmic".

    How many boxes of Kleenex did they get through in that half hour?

    :lol:
  • YellowSubmarineYellowSubmarine Posts: 2,740
    Icarus said:

    May - 18 months max.

    Interesting. The Gloriana Redux thing could work though. Though the cluster**k she's inherited may mean systemic failure is being underpriced at the moment.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,944

    Ukip Councillor Terence Nathan Calls For Remainers To Be Killed

    ‘No need for threats just a bullet.’

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ukip-councillor-terence-nathan-calls-for-remainers-to-be-killed_uk_578f48a8e4b0b545e5cc0975?5prsv51vmgg44pldi

    Now that link has gone '404' (should be 303 really).
    ... and it's back:
    "He said: “Not threatening anyone, no need for threats just a bullet.”"
  • PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Didn't Theresa stand in for Dave a few times at PMQs while she was Home Sec or have I imagined that.

    And I don't think Watson looks unhappy. Just sound asleep.

    He spent several minutes of PMQs eating his lips. Didn't look happy at all. Then he moved onto a waxwork impersonation.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    May hurting UKIP more than Labour is the simple takeaway.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,822
    ToryJim said:

    I think she will fight 2020 but don't see her fighting 2025. Suspect she will go 2022/3 after 6/7 years.

    Yep, that's my expectation as well.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    Just watched PMQS, cannot say I fully understand how Mike arrived at his personal ranking. I'd say it was more May 8/10, Corbyn 6/10. It was one of the better performances I've seen May give, although her defence of the long term plan was pretty laughable, given presumably it's her people who have been briefing journalists about how she reamed out Osborne for over promising and under delivering, and now she's abandoned his targets.

    As for Corbyn, well, maybe it's because I don't watch it often, but he really doesn't seem that bad in terms of his own delivery. He's mocked by the PM and clearly gets irritated by the Tory barracking, neither of which is necessarily a good look for him (but only the former is likely to get any wider coverage, inasmuch as these things go wider at all), but May's answers were not all strong, and he calmly pointed that out.
    justin124 said:

    I think the comparisons with Thatcher are being overdone. May does not come across as being anything like as brash, bossy or domineering as Thatcher did . Nor does she arouse such strong feelings on either side. Many on the Labour side genuinely despised Thatcher and saw her as pure evil - they do not feel that way about Theresa May.

    Give it a few years - I would not know, but surely Thatcher did not arouse such passionate hatred at the start?
  • ArtistArtist Posts: 1,893
    I don't remember UKIP being at 20% to be honest.
  • justin124justin124 Posts: 11,527
    John_M said:

    May hurting UKIP more than Labour is the simple takeaway.
    Probably useful figures for Owen Smith!
  • peter_from_putneypeter_from_putney Posts: 6,956
    edited July 2016
    Interesting that Mrs. May's folder of supposedly readily accessible information, which no PM ever seems to actually refer to, appeared to be a tiny fraction the thickness of the one used by her predecessor.
    Might I correct her on one all too commonly mispronounced word ...... children are brought up not bought up. A horrid mistake she uttered twice within a few seconds ..... aargh!

    Yes, she won today, but was far too deliberately Thatcherite for my liking.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405
    ToryJim said:
    Depends on the, er, volume...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855


    People have loyalty and affinity to their county councils, they are the natural form of sub-national government in England. Several counties have populations comparable to the devolved nations.

    This totally makes sense. Standardize the local-ish things at the county level. If some of the counties are too small, merge them together.
    Standardisation is the key. The current 'devolution' talk with northern powerhouses and mayors and counties, is a complete mess, and surely has to be an administrative nightmare.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    kle4 said:

    Just watched PMQS, cannot say I fully understand how Mike arrived at his personal ranking. I'd say it was more May 8/10, Corbyn 6/10. It was one of the better performances I've seen May give, although her defence of the long term plan was pretty laughable, given presumably it's her people who have been briefing journalists about how she reamed out Osborne for over promising and under delivering, and now she's abandoned his targets.

    As for Corbyn, well, maybe it's because I don't watch it often, but he really doesn't seem that bad in terms of his own delivery. He's mocked by the PM and clearly gets irritated by the Tory barracking, neither of which is necessarily a good look for him (but only the former is likely to get any wider coverage, inasmuch as these things go wider at all), but May's answers were not all strong, and he calmly pointed that out.

    justin124 said:

    I think the comparisons with Thatcher are being overdone. May does not come across as being anything like as brash, bossy or domineering as Thatcher did . Nor does she arouse such strong feelings on either side. Many on the Labour side genuinely despised Thatcher and saw her as pure evil - they do not feel that way about Theresa May.

    Give it a few years - I would not know, but surely Thatcher did not arouse such passionate hatred at the start?
    It is subjective.

    I remember a couple of years ago, when I was editing PB, I thought Dave had a poor PMQs, and I thought I might do a thread on that, within seconds, Andrew Spencer, who I rate very highly said Dave was very good and Ed was crap.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: Westminster voting intention:
    CON: 40% (+10)
    LAB: 29% (-4)
    UKIP: 12% (-8)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)
    GRN: 3% (-)
    (via YouGov / 17-18/07)
    Chgs. from April

    Bloody hell

    Kipppers flocking back to the Tories. Labour in freefall. Despairing lefty Remainians moving to the Lib Dems.
    Would produce a working majority for the Tories.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855

    What is noticeable about Corbyn is he just ploughs on regardless. Some of the questions are fine but he doesn't seem to engage in any debate AT ALL.

    That's not the case - on several questions he first made sure to counter what the PM said in repsonse to the previous question.

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    Sub samples alert, but even in LONDON the Tories are ahead

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/755752025678307332
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    I will say that not having seen that much of May or, to be honest, Thatcher, some of her mannerisms today nevertheless did put my in mind of those bits I have seen of Thatcher.
  • John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    kle4 said:

    Just watched PMQS, cannot say I fully understand how Mike arrived at his personal ranking. I'd say it was more May 8/10, Corbyn 6/10. It was one of the better performances I've seen May give, although her defence of the long term plan was pretty laughable, given presumably it's her people who have been briefing journalists about how she reamed out Osborne for over promising and under delivering, and now she's abandoned his targets.

    As for Corbyn, well, maybe it's because I don't watch it often, but he really doesn't seem that bad in terms of his own delivery. He's mocked by the PM and clearly gets irritated by the Tory barracking, neither of which is necessarily a good look for him (but only the former is likely to get any wider coverage, inasmuch as these things go wider at all), but May's answers were not all strong, and he calmly pointed that out.

    justin124 said:

    I think the comparisons with Thatcher are being overdone. May does not come across as being anything like as brash, bossy or domineering as Thatcher did . Nor does she arouse such strong feelings on either side. Many on the Labour side genuinely despised Thatcher and saw her as pure evil - they do not feel that way about Theresa May.

    Give it a few years - I would not know, but surely Thatcher did not arouse such passionate hatred at the start?
    Thatcher was hated because the de-industrialisation of Labour heartlands took place on her watch. It was a different age. Though that's clearly not got through to Corbyn et al.
  • ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,843
    SeanT said:

    Scott_P said:

    @britainelects: Westminster voting intention:
    CON: 40% (+10)
    LAB: 29% (-4)
    UKIP: 12% (-8)
    LDEM: 9% (+3)
    GRN: 3% (-)
    (via YouGov / 17-18/07)
    Chgs. from April

    Bloody hell

    Kipppers flocking back to the Tories. Labour in freefall. Despairing lefty Remainians moving to the Lib Dems.
    Perhaps the last century was just an anomaly and by 2021 it'll be Tories vs Liberals/Whigs once more!
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,191
    kle4 said:


    People have loyalty and affinity to their county councils, they are the natural form of sub-national government in England. Several counties have populations comparable to the devolved nations.

    This totally makes sense. Standardize the local-ish things at the county level. If some of the counties are too small, merge them together.
    Standardisation is the key. The current 'devolution' talk with northern powerhouses and mayors and counties, is a complete mess, and surely has to be an administrative nightmare.
    The great shame is that the Heath government so totally gutted the Redcliffe-Maud report into Local Government reorganisation. Hugely missed opportunity.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 120,409
    How 2015 Lab GE voters are splitting

    76% still Labour voters

    8% now voting Tory

    9% now voting Lib Dem

    5% now voting UKIP

    3% now voting other
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855


    Might I correct her on one all too commonly mispronounced word ...... children are brought up not bought up. A horrid mistake she uttered twice within a few seconds ..... aargh!

    Freudian slip - Tories have to buy the children they feast upon, and they're usually bought up in bulk.

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,334

    Sub samples alert, but even in LONDON the Tories are ahead

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/755752025678307332

    Dire figures for Labour.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,405

    Sub samples alert, but even in LONDON the Tories are ahead

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/755752025678307332

    Why does they combine Wales with the Midlands?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,295
    kle4 said:

    What is noticeable about Corbyn is he just ploughs on regardless. Some of the questions are fine but he doesn't seem to engage in any debate AT ALL.

    That's not the case - on several questions he first made sure to counter what the PM said in repsonse to the previous question.

    True but he then went on with his prepared next question anyway. The trick, surely, is to know when the PMs answer is worth a cutting supplementary question in place of the question you had come prepared to ask?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,427
    kle4 said:

    Just watched PMQS, cannot say I fully understand how Mike arrived at his personal ranking. I'd say it was more May 8/10, Corbyn 6/10. It was one of the better performances I've seen May give, although her defence of the long term plan was pretty laughable, given presumably it's her people who have been briefing journalists about how she reamed out Osborne for over promising and under delivering, and now she's abandoned his targets.

    As for Corbyn, well, maybe it's because I don't watch it often, but he really doesn't seem that bad in terms of his own delivery. He's mocked by the PM and clearly gets irritated by the Tory barracking, neither of which is necessarily a good look for him (but only the former is likely to get any wider coverage, inasmuch as these things go wider at all), but May's answers were not all strong, and he calmly pointed that out.

    justin124 said:

    I think the comparisons with Thatcher are being overdone. May does not come across as being anything like as brash, bossy or domineering as Thatcher did . Nor does she arouse such strong feelings on either side. Many on the Labour side genuinely despised Thatcher and saw her as pure evil - they do not feel that way about Theresa May.

    Give it a few years - I would not know, but surely Thatcher did not arouse such passionate hatred at the start?
    Generally, Corbyn is OK at PMQs. It's about the only thing he has going for him. It's also the one opportunity the leader of the opposition has to claim equal attention with the prime minister. I think most prime ministers hate them. They don't have to do that well at them however. Avoiding disasters will get them through.
  • valleyboyvalleyboy Posts: 606
    Just a thought. Whilst agreeing totally that May trampled all over JC, you should be careful in taking this Thatcher comparison too far. There are many many people out there who cringe at the thought of the Iron Lady and would never vote Tory simply because of her time as pm. A Thatcher mk2 may just galvanise the left against the Tories and not JC.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,855
    For now - her Cabinet appointments have led to paroxysms of delight among the more Kipper inclined in some cases, but if she should not prove to be Kipper at heart, or gods forbid we end up with FoM (not looking likely right now) then they'll desert her very quickly.
This discussion has been closed.