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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » May’s first PMQs: She’s going be a challenge for either Cor

SystemSystem Posts: 11,704
edited July 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » May’s first PMQs: She’s going be a challenge for either Corbyn or Smith

May answering Corbyn at her first PMQs pic.twitter.com/8pAqRgMheZ

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    Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    edited July 2016
    1

    Edit: double first!
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    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    Taking orders for Humble Pie from the May nay-sayers.....


    Meanwhile, Robertson's question on what the German Foreign Minister said about 'doing whatever it takes to keep Scotland in the EU' was a mis-translation, at best:

    Gabriel said the EU would certainly accept Scotland as a member in its own right if the country leaves the United Kingdom and wants to join the EU.

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-germany-gabriel-idUKKCN0ZI0B7
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    Just look at Tom Watson's face.
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    PaulyPauly Posts: 897
    edited July 2016
    Well I'm convinced. Sign me up, come what May. I wasn't sure if I was going to renew my membership in February but that performance was stellar.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,787
    FPT:
    DavidL said:

    Not a bad effort. Still miss Dave though.

    At least Theresa doesn't go red in the face and get shouty - I thought she kept an even temper throughout
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    stodgestodge Posts: 12,895
    Afternoon all :)

    I'm wondering how May managed to sit at the Cabinet table during the Coalition years. It's clear to this observer she loathed every minute of it and a more politically astute operator than Cameron such as Osborne would have thrown her out of the Cabinet in 2012 or 2013.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Lisa Nandy on Sky - praising May fulsomely.

    What strange times we live in.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Sounds like Corbyn got gubbed. I can imagine Smith would as well. The best part about having a state school educated leader is that they can hand out real drubbings to Labour.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm wondering how May managed to sit at the Cabinet table during the Coalition years. It's clear to this observer she loathed every minute of it and a more politically astute operator than Cameron such as Osborne would have thrown her out of the Cabinet in 2012 or 2013.

    Lady Featherstone said the opposite the other day.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,658
    Mike is being very generous to Corbyn.
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    CookieCookie Posts: 11,505
    edited July 2016
    FPT: David Herdson said:
    "yes, but they're also balanced by 'the rest'. California is still only about 20% overall. England within the UK would be even larger than Prussia within the German Empire. i can't think of another federation where one component accounts for 80% of the whole.

    The logical solution is to implement it on a regional basis within England, particularly as London already has its own devolution deal.

    Morris Dancer is, I believe, a big fan of the idea"

    This is similar to John Prescott's approach in the early years of this century. Unfortunately, it didn't get much support and was roundly rejected in a referendum in the North East. The English, it seems, don't want to be broken up.

    Philip Johnston writes interestingly on the subject of the relationship between the constituent parts of the UK in the Telegraph today: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/to-preserve-the-union-we-might-have-to-go-our-separate-ways/
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    FPT ...

    As Corbyn and Corbyn supporters have no interest in Parliament as the vehicle through which to gain power, the outcome of PMQs is as irrelevant to them as the outcome of general elections. Of course, that will make it all even more depressing for Labour MPs. They are living in a parallel universe over which they have absolutely no control.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    MaxPB said:

    Sounds like Corbyn got gubbed. I can imagine Smith would as well. The best part about having a state school educated leader is that they can hand out real drubbings to Labour.

    The line about the Tory Chairman being a former miner was a zinger.
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    PlatoSaid said:

    Lisa Nandy on Sky - praising May fulsomely.

    What strange times we live in.

    Labour are going to have a media problem.

    Theresa Villiers and Montie are on that programme, what they need is a May critic to balance it out. And yet a former shadow cabinet member isn't doing it. But what can Sky do? Invite one of the small gang of Corbynites on?
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,452

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Not a bad effort. Still miss Dave though.

    At least Theresa doesn't go red in the face and get shouty - I thought she kept an even temper throughout
    Personally I would much rather have someone who took being held to account seriously. Dave's repeated smart Alec attempts to avoid any difficult question were not impressive.

    The new style will suit Corbyn better as well.
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    BigIanBigIan Posts: 198
    Barnstorming performance. Very impressive.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,452
    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm wondering how May managed to sit at the Cabinet table during the Coalition years. It's clear to this observer she loathed every minute of it and a more politically astute operator than Cameron such as Osborne would have thrown her out of the Cabinet in 2012 or 2013.

    Given some of the things she has said recently, I suggest she may have enjoyed five years of Cameron & Osborne with a majority even less.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    PM May, first of her name. Long may she reign.

    Fact of the day. We currently limit tier 1 visas for exceptional talent to 1,000 per year (released in two six monthly tranches). The Tech City component of that is capped @ 200 per year. Completely bonkers.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    Just look at Tom Watson's face.

    Looks like a toad, contemplating his future, - not as sweaty is usual, so a bit of improvement.
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,521
    I had an inkling May would be good at PMQs.

    Beats Gordon's infamous 'I've only been in the job a few days!!' blunder...
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    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,388
    Corbyn reminds me of a bowler who has no answers to being hit around the park, except to keep trundling down. No variations, no plan, no response.
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    BigIanBigIan Posts: 198

    Corbyn reminds me of a bowler who has no answers to being hit around the park, except to keep trundling down. No variations, no plan, no response.

    Got to take him off then!
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    I also think that not being a posho she can be more effective than Cam against the Nats who are clearly floundering post the ascent of May.

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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    There was one bit of May's attack on PMQs that was very Mrs T - she leaned very low over the dispatch box, leant on one elbow and pitched her voice two shades down.

    "A boss who exploits the rules...reminds him of anybody?"
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    edited July 2016

    FPT ...

    As Corbyn and Corbyn supporters have no interest in Parliament as the vehicle through which to gain power, the outcome of PMQs is as irrelevant to them as the outcome of general elections. Of course, that will make it all even more depressing for Labour MPs. They are living in a parallel universe over which they have absolutely no control.

    That's basically it though - a corbyn labour would use 'other means' to fight its corner (see, inter alia, that syria online poll) and the MPs, well,, most of them, still think they're a parliamentary party.

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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,658
    I just saw the 'remind him of anybody' clip.

    Bloody hell. It pushed so many of my Tory buttons, I think I need to lie down.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Not a bad effort. Still miss Dave though.

    At least Theresa doesn't go red in the face and get shouty - I thought she kept an even temper throughout
    Theresa May understood immediately what it took Gordon Brown a couple of weeks to learn. There is no need to shout in order to be heard over the noise of cheering or heckling backbenchers; just speak calmly and evenly and the microphones will pick it up.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191

    PlatoSaid said:

    Lisa Nandy on Sky - praising May fulsomely.

    What strange times we live in.

    Labour are going to have a media problem.

    Theresa Villiers and Montie are on that programme, what they need is a May critic to balance it out. And yet a former shadow cabinet member isn't doing it. But what can Sky do? Invite one of the small gang of Corbynites on?
    Please do, they all sound ridiculous the moment they start trying to 'argue'.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    SeanT said:

    This is the verdict from the Labour leader of my council, Camden:

    https://twitter.com/Sarah_Hayward/status/755723352166240256

    Any Labour supporter who believes it must primarily be a Parliamentary party would feel the same.

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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,392

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Not a bad effort. Still miss Dave though.

    At least Theresa doesn't go red in the face and get shouty - I thought she kept an even temper throughout
    If you thought Cameron was genuinely angry and losing his temper then I suspect you have not conducted many court hearings.

    I personally find her slightly smarmy wince/face twist slightly annoying and I suspect she will lose her novelty fast enough. But I repeat, there is no effective opposition and as long as Labour is determined to keep it that way she will be dominant.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977

    Corbyn reminds me of a bowler who has no answers to being hit around the park, except to keep trundling down. No variations, no plan, no response.

    One very big difference: the bowler would care.

  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,658
    SeanT said:

    I wonder if May has been sitting there in the Tory Cabinet for the last seven years quietly and sadly thinking "Jesus, I'd be better than these posh twits"

    Early days, of course. Early days.

    SeanT said:

    I wonder if May has been sitting there in the Tory Cabinet for the last seven years quietly and sadly thinking "Jesus, I'd be better than these posh twits"

    Early days, of course. Early days.

    There is absolutely no question she has been thinking that.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    I just saw the 'remind him of anybody' clip.

    Bloody hell. It pushed so many of my Tory buttons, I think I need to lie down.

    I liked and feared it in equal measure. Anyone interested or old enough to be familiar with Thatcher just saw her remade.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,452
    FPT:
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Disraeli said:



    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.

    s...
    That's what Daniel Hannan thinks but it might mean ditching the euro, and an awful lot else, and they love it.

    I agree, however it wouldn't be a bad thing for the UK tnd: If Scotland were independent today, what kind of arrangement might it chose to join?

    The English might also finally learn something about what federalism really means.
    Federalism wouldn't work in the British Isles - England is just too big.

    For the same reason, plus the rise of Nationalism, the UK has no long-term future either.

    We cause we know it will be difficult and messy.
    Why? In the US Texas and California are about as many times bigger than Vermont and Wyoming as England is bigger than Scotland and Wales
    yes, but they're also balanced by 'the rest'. California is still only about 20% overall. England within the UK would be even larger than Prussia within the German Empire. i can't think of another federation where one component accounts for 80% of the whole.

    The logical solution is to implement it on a regional basis within England, particularly as London already has its own devolution deal.

    Morris Dancer is, I believe, a big fan of the idea.
    Yes but the UK is already almost a century older than the U.S., personally I have no problem with regional assemblies or if they are not popular enough at least devolution of powers to county and city councils
    Agree that some sort of regional tier makes sense. Prescott tried it but found people didn't want four tiers of UK government and, as ever, drawing the boundaries is fraught with difficulty. It works in London because the GLA boundary is long-standing and because there is only one tier of local government beneath.

    Labour responded to the rejection of regional councils by renewing the drive towards unitary authorities, which I would guess now cover more than half the country. But there are still lots of rural areas with both district and county councils, plus parishes, which make adding a further tier problematic.
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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,563

    SeanT said:

    I wonder if May has been sitting there in the Tory Cabinet for the last seven years quietly and sadly thinking "Jesus, I'd be better than these posh twits"

    Early days, of course. Early days.

    SeanT said:

    I wonder if May has been sitting there in the Tory Cabinet for the last seven years quietly and sadly thinking "Jesus, I'd be better than these posh twits"

    Early days, of course. Early days.

    There is absolutely no question she has been thinking that.
    I should imagine everyone in there has been thinking that, including the woman that does, the cat, and the mahogany table.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,658
    PlatoSaid said:

    I just saw the 'remind him of anybody' clip.

    Bloody hell. It pushed so many of my Tory buttons, I think I need to lie down.

    I liked and feared it in equal measure. Anyone interested or old enough to be familiar with Thatcher just saw her remade.
    Exactly. I was mildly intimidated and scared, but also stimulated and excited by it.

    I wonder if that was rehearsed. It didn't seem an accident to me.
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,521
    John Pienaar thinks Corbyn did "reasonably well in the circumstances."

    Now, I admit to bias, but come on, was he watching the same PMQs as I was?!
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    Carolus_RexCarolus_Rex Posts: 1,414
    Former geography student vs geography teacher!
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    Maggie reborn!
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    PMQs set the tone for May's term

    Labour (the official opposition) are irrelevant as long as Corbyn is in post.

    The real enemy are the backbench Tory headbangers who are still on their Brexit quest
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,521
    edited July 2016

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Leadsom vs Corbyn would have been dire. Leadsom would just waffle on repeatedly about taking back control for Laila from Chester-Le-Street or whoever Corbyn's question came from that week...
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @STJamesl: Emily Thornberry is shadow brexit secretary
    Barry Gardiner will shadow the international trade brief


    One hopes Gisela Stuart was asked and told Jeremy where to stick it...
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    PlatoSaid said:

    I just saw the 'remind him of anybody' clip.

    Bloody hell. It pushed so many of my Tory buttons, I think I need to lie down.

    I liked and feared it in equal measure. Anyone interested or old enough to be familiar with Thatcher just saw her remade.
    Exactly. I was mildly intimidated and scared, but also stimulated and excited by it.

    I wonder if that was rehearsed. It didn't seem an accident to me.
    Me neither. No one can Do-A-Thatcher like that without watching a lot of YouTube. All the mannerisms were there in that exchange.

    I was transported back a few decades.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,427
    Blimey, just watching some clips. She means business. A bit weird some of the sideways mouth movements though - can see the cartoonists picking up on that.
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    ThrakThrak Posts: 494
    Seriously impressive stuff from May, just the sort of leader we need to project confidence at home and abroad. Part of me wishes we could see her wipe the floor with a President Trump but, on reflection, I wouldn't want to wish that on our American cousins.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    DavidL said:

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Not a bad effort. Still miss Dave though.

    At least Theresa doesn't go red in the face and get shouty - I thought she kept an even temper throughout
    If you thought Cameron was genuinely angry and losing his temper then I suspect you have not conducted many court hearings.

    I personally find her slightly smarmy wince/face twist slightly annoying and I suspect she will lose her novelty fast enough. But I repeat, there is no effective opposition and as long as Labour is determined to keep it that way she will be dominant.

    Yep. The really revealing thing would have been if she had struggled against Corbyn.

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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,563
    Cookie said:

    FPT: David Herdson said:
    "yes, but they're also balanced by 'the rest'. California is still only about 20% overall. England within the UK would be even larger than Prussia within the German Empire. i can't think of another federation where one component accounts for 80% of the whole.

    The logical solution is to implement it on a regional basis within England, particularly as London already has its own devolution deal.

    Morris Dancer is, I believe, a big fan of the idea"

    This is similar to John Prescott's approach in the early years of this century. Unfortunately, it didn't get much support and was roundly rejected in a referendum in the North East. The English, it seems, don't want to be broken up.

    Philip Johnston writes interestingly on the subject of the relationship between the constituent parts of the UK in the Telegraph today: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/19/to-preserve-the-union-we-might-have-to-go-our-separate-ways/

    We just need to seperate England and London. It's simple - so simple it's becoming embarrassing it isn't being widely proposed.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,658

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    stodge said:

    Afternoon all :)

    I'm wondering how May managed to sit at the Cabinet table during the Coalition years. It's clear to this observer she loathed every minute of it and a more politically astute operator than Cameron such as Osborne would have thrown her out of the Cabinet in 2012 or 2013.

    Lady Featherstone said the opposite the other day.
    I think we should listen to someone in the cabinet especially since there is no benefit for her saying that.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs ''

    Extra sauce on my humble pie, please.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    IanB2 said:

    FPT:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Disraeli said:



    Have you met anyone from the Protestant NI community?

    Because I have and they'd sooner sell their souls to the devil than take up Irish nationality.

    Don't forget that 45% of NI voted Leave. These people are very, very, very pro-British.

    s...
    That's what Daniel Hannan thinks but it might mean ditching the euro, and an awful lot else, and they love it.

    I agree, however it wouldn't be a bad thing for the UK tnd: If Scotland were independent today, what kind of arrangement might it chose to join?

    The English might also finally learn something about what federalism really means.
    Federalism wouldn't work in the British Isles - England is just too big.

    For the same reason, plus the rise of Nationalism, the UK has no long-term future either.

    We cause we know it will be difficult and messy.
    Why? In the US Texas and California are about as many times bigger than Vermont and Wyoming as England is bigger than Scotland and Wales
    yes, but they're also balanced by 'the rest'. California is still only about 20% overall. England within the UK would be even larger than Prussia within the German Empire. i can't think of another federation where one component accounts for 80% of the whole.

    The logical solution is to implement it on a regional basis within England, particularly as London already has its own devolution deal.

    Morris Dancer is, I believe, a big fan of the idea.
    Yes but the UK is already almost a century older than the U.S., personally I have no problem with regional assemblies or if they are not popular enough at least devolution of powers to county and city councils

    Labour responded to the rejection of regional councils by renewing the drive towards unitary authorities, which I would guess now cover more than half the country. But there are still lots of rural areas with both district and county councils, plus parishes, which make adding a further tier problematic.
    My own thought is that if NI and Scotland want to go their own way, then why shouldn't they? The union holds no emotional appeal for me.

    Wales is an economic basket case and simply can't stand alone. That doesn't apply to Scotland. If they'd rather join the EU, more power to 'em.
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    eekeek Posts: 25,027
    John_M said:

    PM May, first of her name. Long may she reign.

    Fact of the day. We currently limit tier 1 visas for exceptional talent to 1,000 per year (released in two six monthly tranches). The Tech City component of that is capped @ 200 per year. Completely bonkers.

    It's great isn't it. Only 200 exceptionally good IT specialists can come into the UK every year but TCS can bring in as many Indians as they want as they replace another company's IT department (BA is just the latest of so many examples)...

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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Former geography student vs geography teacher!

    :lol:
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261
    Formidable first performance by May, at certain points it was like Thatcher incarnate.

    May should have no trouble with either Corbyn or Smith. In fact she may have more trouble with her own party, some of the trickier questions she faced were from the usual brigade about Europe again. They have won and now they are banging on about what the victory means or should result in. They will be quiet for now but it depends on what sort of deal and end result we get.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,062
    On Cameron vs May:

    My dad always used to complain that PMQs was a waste of time. How on earth could a PM be expected to know about every last bit of government policy? I suppose diligence makes a difference though. Thatcher had it as does May. An essay crisis PM would struggle. But did it in the end really matter? If PMs Brown and Cameron could repeatedly get away with not answering the question and just hope for a soundbite on the news what does the whole really matter?
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    DavidL said:

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Not a bad effort. Still miss Dave though.

    At least Theresa doesn't go red in the face and get shouty - I thought she kept an even temper throughout
    If you thought Cameron was genuinely angry and losing his temper then I suspect you have not conducted many court hearings.

    I personally find her slightly smarmy wince/face twist slightly annoying and I suspect she will lose her novelty fast enough. But I repeat, there is no effective opposition and as long as Labour is determined to keep it that way she will be dominant.

    Yep. The really revealing thing would have been if she had struggled against Corbyn.

    Anyone can score with Corbyn in goal.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Scott_P said:

    @STJamesl: Emily Thornberry is shadow brexit secretary
    Barry Gardiner will shadow the international trade brief


    One hopes Gisela Stuart was asked and told Jeremy where to stick it...

    How many jobs does Colonel Bucket have now?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
    Theresa May has no spite, good one. Let us just ask those unfairly sacked supporters of Michael Gove.
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    SimonStClareSimonStClare Posts: 7,976

    DavidL said:

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Not a bad effort. Still miss Dave though.

    At least Theresa doesn't go red in the face and get shouty - I thought she kept an even temper throughout
    If you thought Cameron was genuinely angry and losing his temper then I suspect you have not conducted many court hearings.

    I personally find her slightly smarmy wince/face twist slightly annoying and I suspect she will lose her novelty fast enough. But I repeat, there is no effective opposition and as long as Labour is determined to keep it that way she will be dominant.

    Yep. The really revealing thing would have been if she had struggled against Corbyn.

    Anyone can score with Corbyn in goal.
    Andy Burnham?
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    SeanT said:

    This is the verdict from the Labour leader of my council, Camden:

    https://twitter.com/Sarah_Hayward/status/755723352166240256

    Any Labour supporter who believes it must primarily be a Parliamentary party would feel the same.

    Hampstead and Kilburn-Con gain.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''I was transported back a few decades.''

    The rewards for a PM who can re-thatcherise Britain are limitless.

    Such a person starts with huge advantages the original could only have dreamed of.
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,392
    Scott_P said:

    PMQs set the tone for May's term

    Labour (the official opposition) are irrelevant as long as Corbyn is in post.

    The real enemy are the backbench Tory headbangers who are still on their Brexit quest

    I don't see that at all.

    She is very clear that we are leaving and she is clear with her twin objectives of restricted immigration and free trade (whether they will be achievable is another issue). Only those who still want to refight the referendum and moan about how unfair it all was are likely to be a thorn in her side. I hope you can move on and not be one of them, I really do.
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    foxinsoxukfoxinsoxuk Posts: 23,548

    DavidL said:

    FPT:

    DavidL said:

    Not a bad effort. Still miss Dave though.

    At least Theresa doesn't go red in the face and get shouty - I thought she kept an even temper throughout
    If you thought Cameron was genuinely angry and losing his temper then I suspect you have not conducted many court hearings.

    I personally find her slightly smarmy wince/face twist slightly annoying and I suspect she will lose her novelty fast enough. But I repeat, there is no effective opposition and as long as Labour is determined to keep it that way she will be dominant.

    Yep. The really revealing thing would have been if she had struggled against Corbyn.

    Anyone can score with Corbyn in goal.
    Andy Burnham?
    An own goal specialist!
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    Given her experience and performances in parliament as Home Sec, it's not at all surprising that May has hit the ground running; she was, after all, selected very much because she was superbly positioned to take on the job without needing a learning curve. Also, although she's not a particularly inspiring speaker and can sometimes tend to waflle when answering questions in interviews, she has always had a good grasp of detail and a nice line in cutting put-downs, both of which suit PMQs well.

    Still, we shouldn't get carried away. She's in her honeymoon period at the moment (and, BTW - isn't she looking well?). Troubles will come, as they always do, and the fundamental problems facing her are not going to be fixed easily. What's more, she's reliant in some major departments on somewhat flaky ministers (DD, Boris). She of course also has a small majority; that still matters, even if Labour are busy enacting a bizarre sort of comic-cartoon civil war.

    For the moment, her ruthless start will stand her in good stead. In the medium term, enemies and the disgruntlement on her own side may come back to haunt her. She should, in particular, have been more gracious towards Osborne. As one of her most illustrious predecessors said, "when you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite."
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536
    Who is Owen Smith?
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    CD13CD13 Posts: 6,351
    I thought she sounded a little nervous early on but gained confidence as she realised she was up against a moron. Like Thatcher in one respect, she's not great at joke delivery, but it's the substance that matters.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,521

    On Cameron vs May:

    My dad always used to complain that PMQs was a waste of time. How on earth could a PM be expected to know about every last bit of government policy? I suppose diligence makes a difference though. Thatcher had it as does May. An essay crisis PM would struggle. But did it in the end really matter? If PMs Brown and Cameron could repeatedly get away with not answering the question and just hope for a soundbite on the news what does the whole really matter?

    The fact that Brown was terrible at PMQs mattered. It reinforced a perception that his government wasn't very good. And it also affects the Parliamentary Party.

    Blairs dominance of the Labour Party from 1997-2005 also, I think, came in part because nobody could lay a blow on him at PMQs. Hague tried, but Blair was competent enough that he got away with it.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    Blimey, just watching some clips. She means business. A bit weird some of the sideways mouth movements though - can see the cartoonists picking up on that.

    I'd never noticed them until it was pointed out on here - reminded me of Gordon when he was playing for thinking time. Gordon had a load of other mannerisms and shoutiness baggage that made him vulnerable.
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    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Corbyn's "leadership"...

    @paulwaugh: On Corbyn position on holding a 2nd #euref, Labour spokesman: "He's not ruling it out, but he's not supporting or endorsing it"
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,427

    SeanT said:

    This is the verdict from the Labour leader of my council, Camden:

    https://twitter.com/Sarah_Hayward/status/755723352166240256

    Any Labour supporter who believes it must primarily be a Parliamentary party would feel the same.

    Well, they know what to do. Or has the window shut now for new members?
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    runnymederunnymede Posts: 2,536

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
    Well the behaviour of several site regulars over the last couple of months has been fairly unedifying.

    Still, as they managed to call the referendum completely wrongly despite their smug self-satisfaction we can be cheerful.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited July 2016
    Wales is an economic basket case and simply can't stand alone. That doesn't apply to Scotland. If they'd rather join the EU, more power to 'em.

    Erm....Scotland runs a monster deficit. The UK runs a deficit but England, relatively speaking, subsidises Scotland to the tune of over £9bn a year. If Scotland goes they either join the Euro (!!!) or they go truly independent (central bank, currency, debt, etc). Scotland COULD be independent but to do so would require a balancing of the books that makes George Osborne's tax credit removal look like an episode of teletubbies. Ain't gonna happen. Scotland can have independence or socialism but not both. To be viable, as you claim, would require a massive return to the political economy of Adam Smith. A very small state running a surplus. The SNP is more at the Corbyn end of the spectrum.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    SeanT said:

    SeanT said:

    This is the verdict from the Labour leader of my council, Camden:

    https://twitter.com/Sarah_Hayward/status/755723352166240256

    Any Labour supporter who believes it must primarily be a Parliamentary party would feel the same.

    She's a good egg, Sarah Hayward, as well. Friendly and gutsy, funny and hard-working, does her very very best for Camden, and from a tough background she worked her way up.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Hayward


    Her kind is the best of Labour (she should have been the Camden PPC, not Keir Starmer).

    And, of course, she abhors Corbyn.

    Starmer was a shoe-in for the constituency as the CLP wanted a big name. I like her. She retweets me!

    It's noticeable how many Corbynistas have never actually needed a Labour government or had to fear the possible consequences of a Tory one. For those on the left whose politics are abstract and identity-based he is a hero.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,658

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
    Theresa May has no spite, good one. Let us just ask those unfairly sacked supporters of Michael Gove.
    God, that's poor.
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    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,452

    On Cameron vs May:

    My dad always used to complain that PMQs was a waste of time. How on earth could a PM be expected to know about every last bit of government policy? I suppose diligence makes a difference though. Thatcher had it as does May. An essay crisis PM would struggle. But did it in the end really matter? If PMs Brown and Cameron could repeatedly get away with not answering the question and just hope for a soundbite on the news what does the whole really matter?

    The fact that Brown was terrible at PMQs mattered. It reinforced a perception that his government wasn't very good. And it also affects the Parliamentary Party.

    Blairs dominance of the Labour Party from 1997-2005 also, I think, came in part because nobody could lay a blow on him at PMQs. Hague tried, but Blair was competent enough that he got away with it.
    John Major's general approach was to deal with the big issues relevant to his role as PM but to bat off questions that were obviously relating to a particular department by telling the questioner to go ask the relevant Minister. Blair on the other hand thought he could answer everything.

    It was interesting today that in response to the first question May said 'go ask the Home Secretary'
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
    Theresa May has no spite, good one. Let us just ask those unfairly sacked supporters of Michael Gove.
    God, that's poor.
    Accurate though.
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    saddenedsaddened Posts: 2,245
    PlatoSaid said:

    Scott_P said:

    @STJamesl: Emily Thornberry is shadow brexit secretary
    Barry Gardiner will shadow the international trade brief


    One hopes Gisela Stuart was asked and told Jeremy where to stick it...

    How many jobs does Colonel Bucket have now?
    I hope she is getting paid extra for all these roles, not being stitched up on a zero hours contract.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,658
    PlatoSaid said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I just saw the 'remind him of anybody' clip.

    Bloody hell. It pushed so many of my Tory buttons, I think I need to lie down.

    I liked and feared it in equal measure. Anyone interested or old enough to be familiar with Thatcher just saw her remade.
    Exactly. I was mildly intimidated and scared, but also stimulated and excited by it.

    I wonder if that was rehearsed. It didn't seem an accident to me.
    Me neither. No one can Do-A-Thatcher like that without watching a lot of YouTube. All the mannerisms were there in that exchange.

    I was transported back a few decades.
    I think she was intending, very deliberately, for us to be reminded of somebody in her as well.

    Subliminal message.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    ''It's noticeable how many Corbynistas have never actually needed a Labour government or had to fear the possible consequences of a Tory one.''

    That's the pithiest criticism of them I have read.
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    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016
    Patrick said:

    Wales is an economic basket case and simply can't stand alone. That doesn't apply to Scotland. If they'd rather join the EU, more power to 'em.

    Erm....Scotland runs a monster deficit. The UK runs a deficit but England, relatively speaking, subsidises Scotland to the tune of over £9bn a year. If Scotland goes they either join the Euro (!!!) or they go truly independent (central bank, currency, debt, etc). Scotland COULD be independent but to do so would require a balancing of the books that makes George Osborne's tax credit removal look like an episode of teletubbies. Ain't gonna happen. Scotland can have independence or socialism but not both. To be viable, as you claim, would require a massive return to the political economy of Adam Smith. A very small state running a surplus. The SNP is more at the Corbyn end of the spectrum.

    EU countries have tackled tasks as large successfully. While I agree with you that the economics look terrible, that shouldn't be (and isn't) the sole determinant for people's choices.

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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    CD13 said:

    I thought she sounded a little nervous early on but gained confidence as she realised she was up against a moron. Like Thatcher in one respect, she's not great at joke delivery, but it's the substance that matters.

    When she finally sat down - she visibly gave a big sigh, laughed with relief and appeared to be saying Thank Goodness That's Over to her immediate colleagues.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,658

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
    Theresa May has no spite, good one. Let us just ask those unfairly sacked supporters of Michael Gove.
    God, that's poor.
    Accurate though.
    No. Theresa is trying to unite all wings of the party under her leadership.

    Something that you wouldn't dream of doing in a million years.
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    ParistondaParistonda Posts: 1,819
    PlatoSaid said:

    I just saw the 'remind him of anybody' clip.

    Bloody hell. It pushed so many of my Tory buttons, I think I need to lie down.

    I liked and feared it in equal measure. Anyone interested or old enough to be familiar with Thatcher just saw her remade.
    Is the "remind him of anybody" quote an actual line that Thatcher once said, or is just that May was doing an imitation of her style?
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    felixfelix Posts: 15,125
    I thought it was a very good first outing - and yes the lean forward to JC was very, very Thatcher - although I didn't feel it was really her style somehow. I'm not sure she will repeat that too often. The weaker part was a lack of flow - stuttering and word repetition, etc which hopefully will wear off with practice. I remain appalled at the humourlessness of the SNP - thankfully most of the Scots I know are so unlike that it gives me hope that maybe they've peaked and don't quite get it yet.
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    From the previous thread regarding the belief that Corbyn can win is down to two words "Social Media".

    The problem with Facebook, which is where a lot of the campaigning operates and where Momentum have been very successful is that you surround yourself with like-minded individuals. Take a look at the Facebook pages of these poor deluded souls and you will see near endless adulation of Corbyn...what they forget is that there's a bigger world out there beyond their social media friends.
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    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 55,658
    runnymede said:

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
    Well the behaviour of several site regulars over the last couple of months has been fairly unedifying.

    Still, as they managed to call the referendum completely wrongly despite their smug self-satisfaction we can be cheerful.
    Yes, this is true.

    We should all move on now.
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    BannedInParisBannedInParis Posts: 2,191
    Scott_P said:

    Corbyn's "leadership"...

    @paulwaugh: On Corbyn position on holding a 2nd #euref, Labour spokesman: "He's not ruling it out, but he's not supporting or endorsing it"

    Three way split. Just like trident.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,631
    Just caught the put down of Farron. Cold blooded.
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    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,062
    What is noticeable about Corbyn is he just ploughs on regardless. Some of the questions are fine but he doesn't seem to engage in any debate AT ALL. I think that's a mistake. It means the PM always has the last word on things.
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    jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,261

    PlatoSaid said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    I just saw the 'remind him of anybody' clip.

    Bloody hell. It pushed so many of my Tory buttons, I think I need to lie down.

    I liked and feared it in equal measure. Anyone interested or old enough to be familiar with Thatcher just saw her remade.
    Exactly. I was mildly intimidated and scared, but also stimulated and excited by it.

    I wonder if that was rehearsed. It didn't seem an accident to me.
    Me neither. No one can Do-A-Thatcher like that without watching a lot of YouTube. All the mannerisms were there in that exchange.

    I was transported back a few decades.
    I think she was intending, very deliberately, for us to be reminded of somebody in her as well.

    Subliminal message.
    That put down was so Thatcheresque and yes I think it was deliberate by May.
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    nunununu Posts: 6,024

    runnymede said:

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
    Well the behaviour of several site regulars over the last couple of months has been fairly unedifying.

    Still, as they managed to call the referendum completely wrongly despite their smug self-satisfaction we can be cheerful.
    Yes, this is true.

    We should all move on now.
    yes PB tories should just rejoice at May's powerhouse preformance.
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    DecrepitJohnLDecrepitJohnL Posts: 13,300

    On Cameron vs May:

    My dad always used to complain that PMQs was a waste of time. How on earth could a PM be expected to know about every last bit of government policy? I suppose diligence makes a difference though. Thatcher had it as does May. An essay crisis PM would struggle. But did it in the end really matter? If PMs Brown and Cameron could repeatedly get away with not answering the question and just hope for a soundbite on the news what does the whole really matter?

    The fact that Brown was terrible at PMQs mattered. It reinforced a perception that his government wasn't very good. And it also affects the Parliamentary Party.

    Blairs dominance of the Labour Party from 1997-2005 also, I think, came in part because nobody could lay a blow on him at PMQs. Hague tried, but Blair was competent enough that he got away with it.
    Brown wasn't terrible at PMQs and Blair was not invincible either -- as you say, Hague in particular sometimes came out on top but IDS was terrible. But let's remember that the Prime Minister should win most of the time. For a start, they have all the answers in that big folder, and if not, in most cases the question can be parried, or a different one answered. The PM also has the last word.
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    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    What is noticeable about Corbyn is he just ploughs on regardless. Some of the questions are fine but he doesn't seem to engage in any debate AT ALL. I think that's a mistake. It means the PM always has the last word on things.

    He's just not very bright. He mixes up unrelated things in a single question (for example today, housing and piccaninnies), leaving the PM free to choose whichever bit of his rambling is most convenient for a counter-thrust.
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    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098

    runnymede said:

    Well done to all those Tory MPs and the black ops on Andrea Leadsom.

    Leadsom would have been in tears at PMQs

    Your personal nastiness to Andrea Leadsom has been one of the most unedifying features of this site over recent weeks. I read some of your comments whilst on holiday and I was, frankly, shocked.

    Thankfully, Theresa May doesn't share your spite.
    Well the behaviour of several site regulars over the last couple of months has been fairly unedifying.

    Still, as they managed to call the referendum completely wrongly despite their smug self-satisfaction we can be cheerful.
    Yes, this is true.

    We should all move on now.
    We should but different people take different times to work through their grief. That some still seem to be in denial, let alone the later stages, should be no surprise. Most people get to the end and come out of it at some point, though some never do.
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    numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 5,521

    On Cameron vs May:

    My dad always used to complain that PMQs was a waste of time. How on earth could a PM be expected to know about every last bit of government policy? I suppose diligence makes a difference though. Thatcher had it as does May. An essay crisis PM would struggle. But did it in the end really matter? If PMs Brown and Cameron could repeatedly get away with not answering the question and just hope for a soundbite on the news what does the whole really matter?

    The fact that Brown was terrible at PMQs mattered. It reinforced a perception that his government wasn't very good. And it also affects the Parliamentary Party.

    Blairs dominance of the Labour Party from 1997-2005 also, I think, came in part because nobody could lay a blow on him at PMQs. Hague tried, but Blair was competent enough that he got away with it.
    Brown wasn't terrible at PMQs and Blair was not invincible either -- as you say, Hague in particular sometimes came out on top but IDS was terrible. But let's remember that the Prime Minister should win most of the time. For a start, they have all the answers in that big folder, and if not, in most cases the question can be parried, or a different one answered. The PM also has the last word.
    Terrible may have been an overstatement, but he was pretty poor - the tractor stats became legendary and there were quite a few clangers over the years - "0% growth"and "saved the world" being two of them.
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    PlatoSaidPlatoSaid Posts: 10,383

    On Cameron vs May:

    My dad always used to complain that PMQs was a waste of time. How on earth could a PM be expected to know about every last bit of government policy? I suppose diligence makes a difference though. Thatcher had it as does May. An essay crisis PM would struggle. But did it in the end really matter? If PMs Brown and Cameron could repeatedly get away with not answering the question and just hope for a soundbite on the news what does the whole really matter?

    The fact that Brown was terrible at PMQs mattered. It reinforced a perception that his government wasn't very good. And it also affects the Parliamentary Party.

    Blairs dominance of the Labour Party from 1997-2005 also, I think, came in part because nobody could lay a blow on him at PMQs. Hague tried, but Blair was competent enough that he got away with it.
    Quite. And Hague was a distinguished clever debater. Tony was totally thrown by the 48hrs GP appt lady. Just as Cameron was when compared to Chamberlain.

    "Tony Blair says he will ensure NHS targets do not stop people from seeing their GPs when they want to.

    The promise follows claims that some GPs' surgeries are refusing to set appointments more than two days in advance because of the targets. The Labour leader said he was "astonished" when the complaint was raised by a woman on BBC Question Time."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4495865.stm
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