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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Corbyn v Eagle will decide whether LAB continues to be a pa

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  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    GIN1138 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    On Brexit, Theresa May ally Damian Green says new PM "won't start the negotiations until early next year"

    Into the long grass Brexit goes....

    The Conservative Party is heading for disaster.
    If they are talking about formal negotiation, those won't start until after Article 50. Unless you think we should push the button right now?
  • Options
    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    On Brexit, Theresa May ally Damian Green says new PM "won't start the negotiations until early next year"

    Consistent with what she said about invoking Article 50 at Christmas.
    By when the real negotiations will have been concluded out of the public eye.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    RodCrosby said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow https://t.co/GMSHMcRQLM https://t.co/eqkbXkuNBW

    Who?

    All the charisma of a parking attendant, or assistant librarian...
    Makes Angela Eagle seem interesting.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    PlatoSaid said:

    Kevin Schofield
    EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow https://t.co/GMSHMcRQLM https://t.co/eqkbXkuNBW

    They can't even get a challenge right. It is truly pathetic.
    Why ? I am glad he has put his hat in the ring. It's STV. So, it does not matter how many candidates there are. Eagle won't even fly.

    I want Yvette.
  • Options
    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,287
    i see Corbyn is going after the swing vote by attending an event for Cuba, doing his little bit to offset Labour's loses in Scotland in 2015.

    It is a shame for Labour that the old fool is trying his hardest to destroy the PLP as an effective alternative to The Tories.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp
  • Options
    oxfordsimonoxfordsimon Posts: 5,831
    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow https://t.co/GMSHMcRQLM https://t.co/eqkbXkuNBW

    Who?

    All the charisma of a parking attendant, or assistant librarian...
    Makes Angela Eagle seem interesting.
    Both of them are pygmies. Pointless and doomed to fail.
  • Options
    ChaosOdinChaosOdin Posts: 67
    dr_spyn said:

    i see Corbyn is going after the swing vote by attending an event for Cuba, doing his little bit to offset Labour's loses in Scotland in 2015.

    It is a shame for Labour that the old fool is trying his hardest to destroy the PLP as an effective alternative to The Tories.

    Didn't Corbyn do a Cuba event just last week!? I seem to remember something like that.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.
  • Options
    shiney2shiney2 Posts: 672
    Ishmael_X said:

    ukip email just in

    "Dear Friend,

    We’re going to have a Remain supporter Theresa May as Britain’s next Prime Minister.

    The Tory establishment with its media friends in tow have managed to hound Brexiteer Andrea Leadsom out of the race, and we’re now looking at a Brexit fudge.

    You only had to listen to the Home Secretary and next Prime Minister’s mealy mouthed statement on EU free movement this morning to realise what’s coming. She didn’t say she’d end it, she said she’d control it.

    All this talk of “leave means leave” means almost nothing.

    That’s why UKIP is needed now more than ever."

    You missed the next line!

    http://tinyurl.com/j8jfjap
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    GIN1138 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    On Brexit, Theresa May ally Damian Green says new PM "won't start the negotiations until early next year"

    Into the long grass Brexit goes....

    The Conservative Party is heading for disaster.
    It's going to be fine. We need to have the informal talks with the large countries first, outside of the spotlight.

    We're leaving. We won't get everything we want, but we are leaving.
  • Options
    Justice is the obvious place for Raab, given his background.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.
    The problem with giving members a choice of "unity" candidate is that quite a few of the second preferences from the anti-Corbyn choice will end up going to Corbyn.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    On Brexit, Theresa May ally Damian Green says new PM "won't start the negotiations until early next year"

    Consistent with what she said about invoking Article 50 at Christmas.
    By when the real negotiations will have been concluded out of the public eye.
    A deal in under five months? Interesting!
  • Options
    LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    Do the Labour leadership rules allows nominations from MPs who are deselected by their CLP?

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/angela-eagle-face-deselection-battle-11596763

    Poor Argclu is really up to her neck in it.
  • Options
    Scott_PScott_P Posts: 51,453
    Looks like Shadsy has settled some markets
  • Options
    FregglesFreggles Posts: 3,486
    PlatoSaid said:

    On Brexit, Theresa May ally Damian Green says new PM "won't start the negotiations until early next year"

    Fire up the Outrage Bus!
    Is it a new model or a repainted NHS Fibmobile?
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Kevin Schofield
    EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow https://t.co/GMSHMcRQLM https://t.co/eqkbXkuNBW

    They can't even get a challenge right. It is truly pathetic.
    Why ? I am glad he has put his hat in the ring. It's STV. So, it does not matter how many candidates there are. Eagle won't even fly.

    I want Yvette.
    Exactly. I do wish people would do some basic reading on the rules before making these comments. Would make for a better forum!
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,611
    ChaosOdin said:

    Rudd, Damien Green, Grayling, Green. The key people lined up behind May.

    Cabinet clues?

    May has known Green since Univerity (and Duncan, but not as well) - there was a feeling Green was overlooked by Cameron.....
    She went straight to talk to Duncan after her speech.
    He'd been waiting outside with all the other hopefuls - Green came out with Grayling et al just before May.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    John_M said:

    GIN1138 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    On Brexit, Theresa May ally Damian Green says new PM "won't start the negotiations until early next year"

    Into the long grass Brexit goes....

    The Conservative Party is heading for disaster.
    It's going to be fine. We need to have the informal talks with the large countries first, outside of the spotlight.

    We're leaving. We won't get everything we want, but we are leaving.
    The fact paranoid people are worried, or at least conflate their idea of leave as the only idea, is why may has less time than she thinks.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MaxPB said:

    Looking forwards, I'd like Carney to stay the expected interest rate drop and QE now that we have regained political stability. It would take 2-3% off markets but push Sterling above $1.33 and €1.20 and the whining lefties who don't understand the FX markets would shut up about it and stop talking the economy down.

    He has no choice. Consumer confidence is dropping like a stone. Already banks reserve ratios have been relaxed. Next is interest rates [ not much to play with ] and, of course, QE.

    Two banks now have serious problems.

    Interest rates will not be increased anywhere. The Fed will postpone theirs possibly until June 2017.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Jobabob said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Kevin Schofield
    EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow https://t.co/GMSHMcRQLM https://t.co/eqkbXkuNBW

    They can't even get a challenge right. It is truly pathetic.
    Why ? I am glad he has put his hat in the ring. It's STV. So, it does not matter how many candidates there are. Eagle won't even fly.

    I want Yvette.
    Exactly. I do wish people would do some basic reading on the rules before making these comments. Would make for a better forum!
    Knowledge just gets in the way!
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    On Brexit, Theresa May ally Damian Green says new PM "won't start the negotiations until early next year"

    Consistent with what she said about invoking Article 50 at Christmas.
    By when the real negotiations will have been concluded out of the public eye.
    A deal in under five months? Interesting!
    Only the heads of agreement. If you think about it, with the red lines each side has already publicly quoted, there's a fairly straightforward laundry list. Single market membership with all that entails? Or just in goods? Financial passporting, yes or no? Which of the areas of cooperation continue, and which will fall into abeyance?

    Sorting out the rules & regs and agreeing transitional arrangements for things like the CFP could take years.
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    GIN1138 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    On Brexit, Theresa May ally Damian Green says new PM "won't start the negotiations until early next year"

    Into the long grass Brexit goes....

    The Conservative Party is heading for disaster.
    Damien Green and Dominic Grieve are both noted europhiles. Their views are to be put in the "ignore" pile.
    Early next year is reasonable. If the negotiations get postponed past January, then it will be backsliding.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    edited July 2016
    Jobabob said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Kevin Schofield
    EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow https://t.co/GMSHMcRQLM https://t.co/eqkbXkuNBW

    They can't even get a challenge right. It is truly pathetic.
    Why ? I am glad he has put his hat in the ring. It's STV. So, it does not matter how many candidates there are. Eagle won't even fly.

    I want Yvette.
    Exactly. I do wish people would do some basic reading on the rules before making these comments. Would make for a better forum!
    As I said above, there is a fair chance that enough of the second preferences from the anti-Corbyn choice will end up with Corbyn to push him over the line.

    Imagine a scenario like this;

    Round 1:

    Corbyn 45
    Eagle 35
    Smith 20 (eliminated)

    Round 2:
    Corbyn 52
    Eagle 48

    It's far better to unite that 55% in the first round and beat him outright. Then the leader can push through rule changes, wait for the £3 memberships to expire, get rid of entryism with the same rules as the Tories and then resign for a full contest.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,922
    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.

    As long as Corbyn does not get second votes it will be fine. But this is the Labour party, so it is undoubtedly the case he will get loads of transfers.

    More seriously, a range of candidates taking Corbyn on in hustings and, hopefully, on TV may sway a few votes against him. The main point of my article remains the same: if Corbyn wins, Labour moves its focus to outside Parliament and so becomes increasingly irrelevant. If he loses, it's a long, hard road back; but there is a road.

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Lowlander said:

    Do the Labour leadership rules allows nominations from MPs who are deselected by their CLP?

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/angela-eagle-face-deselection-battle-11596763

    Poor Argclu is really up to her neck in it.

    The de-selections only come about when a new candidate is selected. It will be , at least, a year before that happens.
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,767

    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.

    As long as Corbyn does not get second votes it will be fine. But this is the Labour party, so it is undoubtedly the case he will get loads of transfers.

    More seriously, a range of candidates taking Corbyn on in hustings and, hopefully, on TV may sway a few votes against him. The main point of my article remains the same: if Corbyn wins, Labour moves its focus to outside Parliament and so becomes increasingly irrelevant. If he loses, it's a long, hard road back; but there is a road.

    Has Eagle lined up her 51 nominations?

    Obviously can only be 5, and realistically probably only 4 contenders (plus Corbyn).
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,922
    MaxPB said:

    Jobabob said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Kevin Schofield
    EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow https://t.co/GMSHMcRQLM https://t.co/eqkbXkuNBW

    They can't even get a challenge right. It is truly pathetic.
    Why ? I am glad he has put his hat in the ring. It's STV. So, it does not matter how many candidates there are. Eagle won't even fly.

    I want Yvette.
    Exactly. I do wish people would do some basic reading on the rules before making these comments. Would make for a better forum!
    As I said above, there is a fair chance that enough of the second preferences from the anti-Corbyn choice will end up with Corbyn to push him over the line.

    Imagine a scenario like this;

    Round 1:

    Corbyn 45
    Eagle 35
    Smith 30 (eliminated)

    Round 2:
    Corbyn 52
    Eagle 48

    It's far better to unite that 55% in the first round and beat him outright. Then the leader can push through rule changes, wait for the £3 memberships to expire, get rid of entryism with the same rules as the Tories and then resign for a full contest.

    That's by far the best option. But this is the Labour party you are talking about.

  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    edited July 2016
    MaxPB said:

    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.
    The problem with giving members a choice of "unity" candidate is that quite a few of the second preferences from the anti-Corbyn choice will end up going to Corbyn.
    Shows how much you know the Labour Party. If someone will not vote Eagle, after voting Owen, will not vote for Eagle anyway, unity or not.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    surbiton said:

    MaxPB said:

    Looking forwards, I'd like Carney to stay the expected interest rate drop and QE now that we have regained political stability. It would take 2-3% off markets but push Sterling above $1.33 and €1.20 and the whining lefties who don't understand the FX markets would shut up about it and stop talking the economy down.

    He has no choice. Consumer confidence is dropping like a stone. Already banks reserve ratios have been relaxed. Next is interest rates [ not much to play with ] and, of course, QE.

    Two banks now have serious problems.

    Interest rates will not be increased anywhere. The Fed will postpone theirs possibly until June 2017.
    I didn't say increase rates, just to keep everything as it is. If rates are held in place that alone will be seen as a vote of confidence, the markets might lose a bit of froth on the basis of no extra QE, but overall the BoE declaring that there is no need for immediate rate cuts will be seen as a positive for the economy and arrest the slide in consumer confidence once it is widely reported. Plus with slightly stronger Sterling people will feel richer and spend more even if it makes no difference in reality.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    @ScottP

    It's STV - rank your candidates then they run off
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,212

    AndyJS said:

    RodCrosby said:

    Scott_P said:

    @PolhomeEditor: EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow https://t.co/GMSHMcRQLM https://t.co/eqkbXkuNBW

    Who?

    All the charisma of a parking attendant, or assistant librarian...
    Makes Angela Eagle seem interesting.
    Both of them are pygmies. Pointless and doomed to fail.
    You are very harsh on pygmies. But anybody but Corbyn. Anybody.
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    John_M said:

    GIN1138 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    On Brexit, Theresa May ally Damian Green says new PM "won't start the negotiations until early next year"

    Into the long grass Brexit goes....

    The Conservative Party is heading for disaster.
    It's going to be fine. We need to have the informal talks with the large countries first, outside of the spotlight.

    We're leaving. We won't get everything we want, but we are leaving.
    Exactly, Mr. M.. Some people seem to expect that international diplomacy should happen in accordance with news cycles and in public. Well, it don't.

    I am quite sure that the FCO people will have been having quiet conversations with all sorts of countries for weeks if not months. That is what embassies are for after all. Chats will be had, reports written, position papers prepared, all that has to happen before the politicians get involved and actual negotiations start. Very little of that work will ever appear in media and that does will be by selective leaks by one or more countries trying to exert influence by the back door.
  • Options
    LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    surbiton said:

    Lowlander said:

    Do the Labour leadership rules allows nominations from MPs who are deselected by their CLP?

    http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/angela-eagle-face-deselection-battle-11596763

    Poor Argclu is really up to her neck in it.

    The de-selections only come about when a new candidate is selected. It will be , at least, a year before that happens.
    It does put May in a bit of a quandary in calling a new election.

    Sure she can call one while the existing right-wing PLP is in place and cull a lot of them. But they will be in a position then to oust Corbyn and start to rebuild.

    Give Labour 12 months and they can cull most of their right-wing themselves and then whatever rump survives the election will be left-wing nuts with no ability to rebuild the party ensuring Tory rule for decades.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    kle4 said:

    John_M said:

    GIN1138 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    On Brexit, Theresa May ally Damian Green says new PM "won't start the negotiations until early next year"

    Into the long grass Brexit goes....

    The Conservative Party is heading for disaster.
    It's going to be fine. We need to have the informal talks with the large countries first, outside of the spotlight.

    We're leaving. We won't get everything we want, but we are leaving.
    The fact paranoid people are worried, or at least conflate their idea of leave as the only idea, is why may has less time than she thinks.
    I just hope people realise that for the sake of the economy, we're going to tiptoe away from the EU. EEA or whatever doesn't have to be the final destination.

    We can't just scream 'Banzai!' and jump out of the EU skyscraper. That's unpossible.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    surbiton said:

    MaxPB said:

    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.
    The problem with giving members a choice of "unity" candidate is that quite a few of the second preferences from the anti-Corbyn choice will end up going to Corbyn.
    Shows how much you know the Labour Party. If someone will not vote Eagle, after voting Owen, will not vote for Eagle anyway, unity or not.
    But they might give Corbyn the second preference. Why risk that option?
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited July 2016
    MaxPB said:



    I didn't say increase rates, just to keep everything as it is. If rates are held in place that alone will be seen as a vote of confidence, the markets might lose a bit of froth on the basis of no extra QE, but overall the BoE declaring that there is no need for immediate rate cuts will be seen as a positive for the economy and arrest the slide in consumer confidence once it is widely reported. Plus with slightly stronger Sterling people will feel richer and spend more even if it makes no difference in reality.

    I tend to agree. The MPC can say 'we don't have enough hard data yet to justify a cut, we'll review it next month'
  • Options
    Twitter awash with people quitting the Tories and joining UKIP today;UKIP site and phone lines crashing due to volume of new membership traffic. Banks says it's game on.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    MaxPB said:

    Jobabob said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Kevin Schofield
    EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow https://t.co/GMSHMcRQLM https://t.co/eqkbXkuNBW

    They can't even get a challenge right. It is truly pathetic.
    Why ? I am glad he has put his hat in the ring. It's STV. So, it does not matter how many candidates there are. Eagle won't even fly.

    I want Yvette.
    Exactly. I do wish people would do some basic reading on the rules before making these comments. Would make for a better forum!
    As I said above, there is a fair chance that enough of the second preferences from the anti-Corbyn choice will end up with Corbyn to push him over the line.

    Imagine a scenario like this;

    Round 1:

    Corbyn 45
    Eagle 35
    Smith 20 (eliminated)

    Round 2:
    Corbyn 52
    Eagle 48

    It's far better to unite that 55% in the first round and beat him outright. Then the leader can push through rule changes, wait for the £3 memberships to expire, get rid of entryism with the same rules as the Tories and then resign for a full contest.
    That's somewhat true but someone like Yvette, with good name recognition, could potentially benefit in the same way.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    I wonder of May will take soundings from her new Cabinet regarding a snap GE. Surely it is more likely now she was coronated?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607

    Twitter awash with people quitting the Tories and joining UKIP today;UKIP site and phone lines crashing due to volume of new membership traffic. Banks says it's game on.

    Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549


    MaxPB said:

    Jobabob said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Kevin Schofield
    EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow https://t.co/GMSHMcRQLM https://t.co/eqkbXkuNBW

    They can't even get a challenge right. It is truly pathetic.
    Why ? I am glad he has put his hat in the ring. It's STV. So, it does not matter how many candidates there are. Eagle won't even fly.

    I want Yvette.
    Exactly. I do wish people would do some basic reading on the rules before making these comments. Would make for a better forum!
    As I said above, there is a fair chance that enough of the second preferences from the anti-Corbyn choice will end up with Corbyn to push him over the line.

    Imagine a scenario like this;

    Round 1:

    Corbyn 45
    Eagle 35
    Smith 20 (eliminated)

    Round 2:
    Corbyn 52
    Eagle 48

    It's far better to unite that 55% in the first round and beat him outright. Then the leader can push through rule changes, wait for the £3 memberships to expire, get rid of entryism with the same rules as the Tories and then resign for a full contest.
    Extraordinary logic !

    A MP who voted for Owen, will not vote Eagle in Round 2 because he/she votes Corbyn.

    However, if there was only one contest, the same MP, will choose Eagle over Corbyn !!

    Really ?
  • Options
    MaxPB said:

    Twitter awash with people quitting the Tories and joining UKIP today;UKIP site and phone lines crashing due to volume of new membership traffic. Banks says it's game on.

    Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
    I was never in
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Interesting anecdotal evidence from BBC News: their reporters found that Brexit Tories in North Yorkshire were mostly happy with May as leader, but in Gosport they were overwhelmingly hostile.
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869

    John_M said:

    GIN1138 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    On Brexit, Theresa May ally Damian Green says new PM "won't start the negotiations until early next year"

    Into the long grass Brexit goes....

    The Conservative Party is heading for disaster.
    It's going to be fine. We need to have the informal talks with the large countries first, outside of the spotlight.

    We're leaving. We won't get everything we want, but we are leaving.
    Exactly, Mr. M.. Some people seem to expect that international diplomacy should happen in accordance with news cycles and in public. Well, it don't.

    I am quite sure that the FCO people will have been having quiet conversations with all sorts of countries for weeks if not months. That is what embassies are for after all. Chats will be had, reports written, position papers prepared, all that has to happen before the politicians get involved and actual negotiations start. Very little of that work will ever appear in media and that does will be by selective leaks by one or more countries trying to exert influence by the back door.
    I'll confess my ignorance up-front, but it's the FCO that bothers me most. Everyone there will have spent their careers pursuing EU objectives. How can anyone be expected to do an about-turn like that? And when it's an entire organisation that needs to be turned round, well .....
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    Omnium said:

    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.

    As long as Corbyn does not get second votes it will be fine. But this is the Labour party, so it is undoubtedly the case he will get loads of transfers.

    More seriously, a range of candidates taking Corbyn on in hustings and, hopefully, on TV may sway a few votes against him. The main point of my article remains the same: if Corbyn wins, Labour moves its focus to outside Parliament and so becomes increasingly irrelevant. If he loses, it's a long, hard road back; but there is a road.

    Has Eagle lined up her 51 nominations?

    Obviously can only be 5, and realistically probably only 4 contenders (plus Corbyn).
    Yes she has her noms
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    MaxPB said:

    Twitter awash with people quitting the Tories and joining UKIP today;UKIP site and phone lines crashing due to volume of new membership traffic. Banks says it's game on.

    Don't let the door hit you on the way out!
    More seriously, if the only thing keeping people in one rather than the other was the prospect of the other person winning, a person who is themselves happily staying put, maybe they were in the wrong party to start with.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395

    Twitter awash with people quitting the Tories and joining UKIP today;UKIP site and phone lines crashing due to volume of new membership traffic. Banks says it's game on.

    Is this the same Twitter which expected EICIPM to enter Downing Street last year?
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    Twitter awash with people quitting the Tories and joining UKIP today;UKIP site and phone lines crashing due to volume of new membership traffic. Banks says it's game on.

    How many Twitter accounts does Plato have ?
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    RobD said:

    I wonder of May will take soundings from her new Cabinet regarding a snap GE. Surely it is more likely now she was coronated?

    Less likely, surely? They dismay not have wanted the prospect of one floated by candidates, and since they are all united again no need to seek public endorsement of any platform.
  • Options
    paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,461
    AndyJS said:

    Interesting anecdotal evidence from BBC News: their reporters found that Brexit Tories in North Yorkshire were mostly happy with May as leader, but in Gosport they were overwhelmingly hostile.

    I live in North Yorkshire. It's so wonderful we'd be happy if Darth Vader was PM.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    MaxPB said:

    surbiton said:

    MaxPB said:

    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.
    The problem with giving members a choice of "unity" candidate is that quite a few of the second preferences from the anti-Corbyn choice will end up going to Corbyn.
    Shows how much you know the Labour Party. If someone will not vote Eagle, after voting Owen, will not vote for Eagle anyway, unity or not.
    But they might give Corbyn the second preference. Why risk that option?
    Equally, someone might vote Owen who would never vote Eagle. Why not let Owen beat Eagle ?
  • Options
    LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941

    Twitter awash with people quitting the Tories and joining UKIP today;UKIP site and phone lines crashing due to volume of new membership traffic. Banks says it's game on.

    I don't know about anyone else. But I don't think Aaron Banks is a reliable narrator.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    Next Con leader & Con forecast suspended on Betfair.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Jobabob said:

    MaxPB said:

    Jobabob said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Kevin Schofield
    EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow https://t.co/GMSHMcRQLM https://t.co/eqkbXkuNBW

    They can't even get a challenge right. It is truly pathetic.
    Why ? I am glad he has put his hat in the ring. It's STV. So, it does not matter how many candidates there are. Eagle won't even fly.

    I want Yvette.
    Exactly. I do wish people would do some basic reading on the rules before making these comments. Would make for a better forum!
    As I said above, there is a fair chance that enough of the second preferences from the anti-Corbyn choice will end up with Corbyn to push him over the line.

    Imagine a scenario like this;

    Round 1:

    Corbyn 45
    Eagle 35
    Smith 20 (eliminated)

    Round 2:
    Corbyn 52
    Eagle 48

    It's far better to unite that 55% in the first round and beat him outright. Then the leader can push through rule changes, wait for the £3 memberships to expire, get rid of entryism with the same rules as the Tories and then resign for a full contest.
    That's somewhat true but someone like Yvette, with good name recognition, could potentially benefit in the same way.
    Why take the risk though. The anti-Corbyn camp needs to poll the membership on which of Eagle, Smith and Watson has the best chance of beating Corbyn, then put that person up and unite behind them. Having two anti-Corbyn options just looks like in fighting and squabbling, plus a certain amount of axing Corbyn because these people covet the leadership rather than him being crap. I think it is time for Corbyn to go, obviously if he sticks around it's great for the Tories, but having no real opposition is turning the UK into a single party state which is bad for the country. I think splitting the ticket and allowing the option of unity votes to transfer to Corbyn in a second round greatly decreases the chance of removing him.
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    edited July 2016
    Lowlander said:

    Twitter awash with people quitting the Tories and joining UKIP today;UKIP site and phone lines crashing due to volume of new membership traffic. Banks says it's game on.

    I don't know about anyone else. But I don't think Aaron Banks is a reliable narrator.
    Cooper-esque? :D
  • Options
    LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941
    AndyJS said:

    Twitter awash with people quitting the Tories and joining UKIP today;UKIP site and phone lines crashing due to volume of new membership traffic. Banks says it's game on.

    Is this the same Twitter which expected EICIPM to enter Downing Street last year?
    I think its the Twitter that expected 50 UKIP MPs last year.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    surbiton said:

    Twitter awash with people quitting the Tories and joining UKIP today;UKIP site and phone lines crashing due to volume of new membership traffic. Banks says it's game on.

    How many Twitter accounts does Plato have ?
    :smiley:
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901
    May, Brown, Major, Callaghan, Home, Macmillan, Eden.

    The pedigree of unelected PMs is not good. She must aim to emulate Supermac.
  • Options
    MortimerMortimer Posts: 13,942
    RobD said:

    I wonder of May will take soundings from her new Cabinet regarding a snap GE. Surely it is more likely now she was coronated?

    CROWNED!!!!!
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    surbiton said:





    MaxPB said:

    Jobabob said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Kevin Schofield
    EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow https://t.co/GMSHMcRQLM https://t.co/eqkbXkuNBW

    They can't even get a challenge right. It is truly pathetic.
    Why ? I am glad he has put his hat in the ring. It's STV. So, it does not matter how many candidates there are. Eagle won't even fly.

    I want Yvette.
    Exactly. I do wish people would do some basic reading on the rules before making these comments. Would make for a better forum!
    As I said above, there is a fair chance that enough of the second preferences from the anti-Corbyn choice will end up with Corbyn to push him over the line.

    Imagine a scenario like this;

    Round 1:

    Corbyn 45
    Eagle 35
    Smith 20 (eliminated)

    Round 2:
    Corbyn 52
    Eagle 48

    It's far better to unite that 55% in the first round and beat him outright. Then the leader can push through rule changes, wait for the £3 memberships to expire, get rid of entryism with the same rules as the Tories and then resign for a full contest.
    Extraordinary logic !

    A MP who voted for Owen, will not vote Eagle in Round 2 because he/she votes Corbyn.

    However, if there was only one contest, the same MP, will choose Eagle over Corbyn !!

    Really ?
    Needs a thread
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,256
    Jobabob said:

    @ScottP

    It's STV - rank your candidates then they run off

    There is only one position so it is AV not STV.
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    surbiton said:





    MaxPB said:

    Jobabob said:

    surbiton said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    Kevin Schofield
    EXCL Owen Smith to run for Labour leadership - and could launch his campaign tomorrow https://t.co/GMSHMcRQLM https://t.co/eqkbXkuNBW

    They can't even get a challenge right. It is truly pathetic.
    Why ? I am glad he has put his hat in the ring. It's STV. So, it does not matter how many candidates there are. Eagle won't even fly.

    I want Yvette.
    Exactly. I do wish people would do some basic reading on the rules before making these comments. Would make for a better forum!
    As I said above, there is a fair chance that enough of the second preferences from the anti-Corbyn choice will end up with Corbyn to push him over the line.

    Imagine a scenario like this;

    Round 1:

    Corbyn 45
    Eagle 35
    Smith 20 (eliminated)

    Round 2:
    Corbyn 52
    Eagle 48

    It's far better to unite that 55% in the first round and beat him outright. Then the leader can push through rule changes, wait for the £3 memberships to expire, get rid of entryism with the same rules as the Tories and then resign for a full contest.
    Extraordinary logic !

    A MP who voted for Owen, will not vote Eagle in Round 2 because he/she votes Corbyn.

    However, if there was only one contest, the same MP, will choose Eagle over Corbyn !!

    Really ?
    There were some people in London who voted for Britain First then Khan iirc. Never underestimate the lack of logic from voters.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Pulpstar said:

    Next Con leader & Con forecast suspended on Betfair.

    Belatedly.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937

    Twitter awash with people quitting the Tories and joining UKIP today;UKIP site and phone lines crashing due to volume of new membership traffic. Banks says it's game on.

    Twitter should not be used as a barometer of anything except the noisiness of tw@ts.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    Lowlander said:

    AndyJS said:

    Twitter awash with people quitting the Tories and joining UKIP today;UKIP site and phone lines crashing due to volume of new membership traffic. Banks says it's game on.

    Is this the same Twitter which expected EICIPM to enter Downing Street last year?
    I think its the Twitter that expected 50 UKIP MPs last year.
    I wouldn't be shocked to discover 50 MPs had voted UKIP at some point though, in the privacy of the booth at euro or locals time
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503
    edited July 2016
    AnneJGP said:

    John_M said:

    GIN1138 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    On Brexit, Theresa May ally Damian Green says new PM "won't start the negotiations until early next year"

    Into the long grass Brexit goes....

    The Conservative Party is heading for disaster.
    It's going to be fine. We need to have the informal talks with the large countries first, outside of the spotlight.

    We're leaving. We won't get everything we want, but we are leaving.
    Exactly, Mr. M.. Some people seem to expect that international diplomacy should happen in accordance with news cycles and in public. Well, it don't.

    I am quite sure that the FCO people will have been having quiet conversations with all sorts of countries for weeks if not months. That is what embassies are for after all. Chats will be had, reports written, position papers prepared, all that has to happen before the politicians get involved and actual negotiations start. Very little of that work will ever appear in media and that does will be by selective leaks by one or more countries trying to exert influence by the back door.
    I'll confess my ignorance up-front, but it's the FCO that bothers me most. Everyone there will have spent their careers pursuing EU objectives. How can anyone be expected to do an about-turn like that? And when it's an entire organisation that needs to be turned round, well .....
    I believe that's part of the motivation for setting up a cross departmental team to handle Brexit. The FCO will have to be reset, rebuilt and re-aimed. If you're really interested in some of the background, there's plenty on https://www.civilserviceworld.com/ (though as you might expect, the overriding theme is 'give us more money' :) ).
  • Options
    HurstLlamaHurstLlama Posts: 9,098
    MaxPB said:

    surbiton said:

    MaxPB said:

    Looking forwards, I'd like Carney to stay the expected interest rate drop and QE now that we have regained political stability. It would take 2-3% off markets but push Sterling above $1.33 and €1.20 and the whining lefties who don't understand the FX markets would shut up about it and stop talking the economy down.

    He has no choice. Consumer confidence is dropping like a stone. Already banks reserve ratios have been relaxed. Next is interest rates [ not much to play with ] and, of course, QE.

    Two banks now have serious problems.

    Interest rates will not be increased anywhere. The Fed will postpone theirs possibly until June 2017.
    I didn't say increase rates, just to keep everything as it is. If rates are held in place that alone will be seen as a vote of confidence, the markets might lose a bit of froth on the basis of no extra QE, but overall the BoE declaring that there is no need for immediate rate cuts will be seen as a positive for the economy and arrest the slide in consumer confidence once it is widely reported. Plus with slightly stronger Sterling people will feel richer and spend more even if it makes no difference in reality.
    I am fascinated by this slide in consumer confidence. Where is it happening? The markets have been a bit squirrelly but they usually are. PMIs were a bit crap but they have been sinking gently for months (referendum or no we were always going to have a down turn in or around 2017). However, "Consumer confidence is dropping like a stone" as per Surbiton or even a "slide", can't see much sign of that.

    That is not to say people stopping borrowing to buy imported stuff on their credit cards (the usual symptom of a "slide in consumer confidence") might not be a bad idea.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.

    As long as Corbyn does not get second votes it will be fine. But this is the Labour party, so it is undoubtedly the case he will get loads of transfers.

    More seriously, a range of candidates taking Corbyn on in hustings and, hopefully, on TV may sway a few votes against him. The main point of my article remains the same: if Corbyn wins, Labour moves its focus to outside Parliament and so becomes increasingly irrelevant. If he loses, it's a long, hard road back; but there is a road.

    Whichever way you look at it, Labour is splitting. The fault lies with people like Margaret Beckett who lent Corbyn her name in nominating him.
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Jonathan said:

    May, Brown, Major, Callaghan, Home, Macmillan, Eden.

    The pedigree of unelected PMs is not good. She must aim to emulate Supermac.

    She's the oldest PM to take office since Callaghan. She's 59, he was 64.
  • Options
    pbr2013pbr2013 Posts: 649
    AndyJS said:

    David Cameron is no longer leader of the Conservative Party.

    Actually, I will miss Dave a bit. Why did he do it?
  • Options
    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.

    As long as Corbyn does not get second votes it will be fine. But this is the Labour party, so it is undoubtedly the case he will get loads of transfers.

    More seriously, a range of candidates taking Corbyn on in hustings and, hopefully, on TV may sway a few votes against him. The main point of my article remains the same: if Corbyn wins, Labour moves its focus to outside Parliament and so becomes increasingly irrelevant. If he loses, it's a long, hard road back; but there is a road.

    Whichever way you look at it, Labour is splitting. The fault lies with people like Margaret Beckett who lent Corbyn her name in nominating him.
    And Ed Miliband for fucking up the leadership election process.
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    MaxPB said:

    surbiton said:

    MaxPB said:

    Looking forwards, I'd like Carney to stay the expected interest rate drop and QE now that we have regained political stability. It would take 2-3% off markets but push Sterling above $1.33 and €1.20 and the whining lefties who don't understand the FX markets would shut up about it and stop talking the economy down.

    He has no choice. Consumer confidence is dropping like a stone. Already banks reserve ratios have been relaxed. Next is interest rates [ not much to play with ] and, of course, QE.

    Two banks now have serious problems.

    Interest rates will not be increased anywhere. The Fed will postpone theirs possibly until June 2017.
    I didn't say increase rates, just to keep everything as it is. If rates are held in place that alone will be seen as a vote of confidence, the markets might lose a bit of froth on the basis of no extra QE, but overall the BoE declaring that there is no need for immediate rate cuts will be seen as a positive for the economy and arrest the slide in consumer confidence once it is widely reported. Plus with slightly stronger Sterling people will feel richer and spend more even if it makes no difference in reality.
    I am fascinated by this slide in consumer confidence. Where is it happening? The markets have been a bit squirrelly but they usually are. PMIs were a bit crap but they have been sinking gently for months (referendum or no we were always going to have a down turn in or around 2017). However, "Consumer confidence is dropping like a stone" as per Surbiton or even a "slide", can't see much sign of that.

    That is not to say people stopping borrowing to buy imported stuff on their credit cards (the usual symptom of a "slide in consumer confidence") might not be a bad idea.
    You will have to wait for the PMI's etc. at the beginning of August. Most of the July numbers were taken before the vote when everyone expected a Remain vote.
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914
    AndyJS said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Next Con leader & Con forecast suspended on Betfair.

    Belatedly.
    Yep - Betfair do have to v careful with timing of markets though. There is still a very very slim chance that T May may not be the PM after Cameron - so they can't settle that one yet.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    I am fascinated by this slide in consumer confidence. Where is it happening? The markets have been a bit squirrelly but they usually are. PMIs were a bit crap but they have been sinking gently for months (referendum or no we were always going to have a down turn in or around 2017). However, "Consumer confidence is dropping like a stone" as per Surbiton or even a "slide", can't see much sign of that.

    Look here, for example:

    http://www.hl.co.uk/news/2016/7/8/brexit-prompts-biggest-drop-in-uk-consumer-confidence-in-21-years
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    pbr2013 said:

    AndyJS said:

    David Cameron is no longer leader of the Conservative Party.

    Actually, I will miss Dave a bit. Why did he do it?
    He fucking lost and fucked up the country at the same time.
  • Options
    John_MJohn_M Posts: 7,503

    MaxPB said:

    surbiton said:

    MaxPB said:

    Looking forwards, I'd like Carney to stay the expected interest rate drop and QE now that we have regained political stability. It would take 2-3% off markets but push Sterling above $1.33 and €1.20 and the whining lefties who don't understand the FX markets would shut up about it and stop talking the economy down.

    He has no choice. Consumer confidence is dropping like a stone. Already banks reserve ratios have been relaxed. Next is interest rates [ not much to play with ] and, of course, QE.

    Two banks now have serious problems.

    Interest rates will not be increased anywhere. The Fed will postpone theirs possibly until June 2017.
    I didn't say increase rates, just to keep everything as it is. If rates are held in place that alone will be seen as a vote of confidence, the markets might lose a bit of froth on the basis of no extra QE, but overall the BoE declaring that there is no need for immediate rate cuts will be seen as a positive for the economy and arrest the slide in consumer confidence once it is widely reported. Plus with slightly stronger Sterling people will feel richer and spend more even if it makes no difference in reality.
    I am fascinated by this slide in consumer confidence. Where is it happening? The markets have been a bit squirrelly but they usually are. PMIs were a bit crap but they have been sinking gently for months (referendum or no we were always going to have a down turn in or around 2017). However, "Consumer confidence is dropping like a stone" as per Surbiton or even a "slide", can't see much sign of that.

    That is not to say people stopping borrowing to buy imported stuff on their credit cards (the usual symptom of a "slide in consumer confidence") might not be a bad idea.
    The most recent indicator is that Dixons Carphone are being marked down - people think big ticket purchases are going to be deferred in the second half of the year.

    It's hard to tell what normal people are thinking. We need a decent summer to cheer everyone up :).
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 75,914

    I am fascinated by this slide in consumer confidence. Where is it happening? The markets have been a bit squirrelly but they usually are. PMIs were a bit crap but they have been sinking gently for months (referendum or no we were always going to have a down turn in or around 2017). However, "Consumer confidence is dropping like a stone" as per Surbiton or even a "slide", can't see much sign of that.

    Look here, for example:

    http://www.hl.co.uk/news/2016/7/8/brexit-prompts-biggest-drop-in-uk-consumer-confidence-in-21-years
    One for the Focus leaflets :D
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,937
    surbiton said:

    pbr2013 said:

    AndyJS said:

    David Cameron is no longer leader of the Conservative Party.

    Actually, I will miss Dave a bit. Why did he do it?
    He fucking lost and fucked up the country at the same time.
    So unlike Blair, who fucked up the country and didn't lose, and Brown, who fucked up the country before he lost. ;)
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    surbiton said:

    pbr2013 said:

    AndyJS said:

    David Cameron is no longer leader of the Conservative Party.

    Actually, I will miss Dave a bit. Why did he do it?
    He fucking lost and fucked up the country at the same time.
    Project fear has gone to your head...
  • Options
    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    Scott_P said:

    @alantravis40: Now heard two Westminster sources tipping James Brokenshire as next home secretary - May's capable immigration and security minister

    Some with a "Broken" name will be fun for the newspapers.
  • Options
    Moses_Moses_ Posts: 4,865
    edited July 2016
    Wonder if someone could advise me here?

    My daughter has funding for a PHD and has been offered a place at a red brick uni to complete this. She has formally accepted and the university have acknowledged that acceptance Lecturers in the department gave sent her congratulatory Emails and stating really looking forward to the research. Her appointed mentors have said to her get started now doing background work even though you start in early October. This my daughter has been doing. The university has now emailed her saying they have amended the conditions and they need her transcript o result from the MSC. The problem is that doesn't meet the new conditions and a further problem is that the results on the transcript are incorrect as my daughter had higher marks. We have told student office , emailed them without luck and we are now seeking interviews with them and the uni administration

    Firstly can a university offer a place and then withdraw when they have changed conditions months later and well after the offer was made and acceptance. I consider that to be a contract in place and agreed

    1) How the hell do you get anything changed in a uni when's it incorrect and the student office has made a catastrophic error. It's their own document that shows the error clearly. We have been trying to change this since MSC results were given out.

    2) If nothing resolved who should e go to the chancellor ? Dean? To press the case.

    3) My daughter has done nothing wrong achieved the grades before and even after new conditions and is now again being made unwell by this incredible stress now placed on her.

    Any thoughts help would be appreciated because as we all know there is a huge amount riding on an admin mistake. That mistake exacerbated due to a post change of the acceptance conditions which I think is not only unfair but possibly a breach of the original contract of acceptance.

    Help !!
  • Options
    OmniumOmnium Posts: 9,767

    MaxPB said:

    surbiton said:

    MaxPB said:

    Looking forwards, I'd like Carney to stay the expected interest rate drop and QE now that we have regained political stability. It would take 2-3% off markets but push Sterling above $1.33 and €1.20 and the whining lefties who don't understand the FX markets would shut up about it and stop talking the economy down.

    He has no choice. Consumer confidence is dropping like a stone. Already banks reserve ratios have been relaxed. Next is interest rates [ not much to play with ] and, of course, QE.

    Two banks now have serious problems.

    Interest rates will not be increased anywhere. The Fed will postpone theirs possibly until June 2017.
    I didn't say increase rates, just to keep everything as it is. If rates are held in place that alone will be seen as a vote of confidence, the markets might lose a bit of froth on the basis of no extra QE, but overall the BoE declaring that there is no need for immediate rate cuts will be seen as a positive for the economy and arrest the slide in consumer confidence once it is widely reported. Plus with slightly stronger Sterling people will feel richer and spend more even if it makes no difference in reality.
    I am fascinated by this slide in consumer confidence. Where is it happening? The markets have been a bit squirrelly but they usually are. PMIs were a bit crap but they have been sinking gently for months (referendum or no we were always going to have a down turn in or around 2017). However, "Consumer confidence is dropping like a stone" as per Surbiton or even a "slide", can't see much sign of that.

    That is not to say people stopping borrowing to buy imported stuff on their credit cards (the usual symptom of a "slide in consumer confidence") might not be a bad idea.
    Consumer confidence can clearly change very rapidly.

    I actually think that there is a slim chance rates could rise rather than be cut, and that it could be the right thing to do. Potentially the drop in the pounds is causing inflation, and higher rates are the traditional tool to fight that. They'd support the pound a little, potentially (and counter-intuitively) help avoid softness in the property market, and potentially send a signal that the BoE sees a positive economic outlook.

    Might be a vanishingly slim chance mind you :)
  • Options
    nunununu Posts: 6,024
    kle4 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    General Election
    Todays ICM Poll

    Aged 18-24 (65+)

    Labour 49% (21%)
    Conservatives 25% (51%)
    LibDems 10% (8%)
    UKIP 9% (15%)
    Greens 6% (1%)

    Greens not popula among the oldies, who'd have guessed.
    not that popular amongst the young either not that it matters they don't vote.
  • Options
    JobabobJobabob Posts: 3,807
    IanB2 said:

    Jobabob said:

    @ScottP

    It's STV - rank your candidates then they run off

    There is only one position so it is AV not STV.
    @TheScreamingEagles has put you up to that post.

    Utterly transparent.
  • Options
    AnneJGPAnneJGP Posts: 2,869
    John_M said:

    AnneJGP said:

    John_M said:

    GIN1138 said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    On Brexit, Theresa May ally Damian Green says new PM "won't start the negotiations until early next year"

    Into the long grass Brexit goes....

    The Conservative Party is heading for disaster.
    It's going to be fine. We need to have the informal talks with the large countries first, outside of the spotlight.

    We're leaving. We won't get everything we want, but we are leaving.
    Exactly, Mr. M.. Some people seem to expect that international diplomacy should happen in accordance with news cycles and in public. Well, it don't.

    I am quite sure that the FCO people will have been having quiet conversations with all sorts of countries for weeks if not months. That is what embassies are for after all. Chats will be had, reports written, position papers prepared, all that has to happen before the politicians get involved and actual negotiations start. Very little of that work will ever appear in media and that does will be by selective leaks by one or more countries trying to exert influence by the back door.
    I'll confess my ignorance up-front, but it's the FCO that bothers me most. Everyone there will have spent their careers pursuing EU objectives. How can anyone be expected to do an about-turn like that? And when it's an entire organisation that needs to be turned round, well .....
    I believe that's part of the motivation for setting up a cross departmental team to handle Brexit. The FCO will have to be reset, rebuilt and re-aimed. If you're really interested in some of the background, there's plenty on https://www.civilserviceworld.com/ (though as you might expect, the overriding theme is 'give us more money' :) ).
    Thanks for tht link. I shall be interested to browse it.
  • Options
    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,922
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.

    As long as Corbyn does not get second votes it will be fine. But this is the Labour party, so it is undoubtedly the case he will get loads of transfers.

    More seriously, a range of candidates taking Corbyn on in hustings and, hopefully, on TV may sway a few votes against him. The main point of my article remains the same: if Corbyn wins, Labour moves its focus to outside Parliament and so becomes increasingly irrelevant. If he loses, it's a long, hard road back; but there is a road.

    Whichever way you look at it, Labour is splitting. The fault lies with people like Margaret Beckett who lent Corbyn her name in nominating him.

    In all probability Corbyn will win again, so yes. But if by some miracle he loses I wouldn't categorise a load of Trots and Stalinists slinking off to the Greens as a split.

  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961

    surbiton said:

    pbr2013 said:

    AndyJS said:

    David Cameron is no longer leader of the Conservative Party.

    Actually, I will miss Dave a bit. Why did he do it?
    He fucking lost and fucked up the country at the same time.
    So unlike Blair, who fucked up the country and didn't lose, and Brown, who fucked up the country before he lost. ;)
    At least Dave did it at the same time :D
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    pbr2013 said:

    AndyJS said:

    David Cameron is no longer leader of the Conservative Party.

    Actually, I will miss Dave a bit. Why did he do it?
    He didn't have the strength to resist calls for a referendum , then wasn't up to the task of selling what he got from the EU. If he had to do it again, and couldn't avoid a vote, I imagine he would have risked another migrant crisis and Greek crisis and taken longer trying to force a deal.

    Despite Brexit, I will miss the coalition.
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    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,901

    surbiton said:

    pbr2013 said:

    AndyJS said:

    David Cameron is no longer leader of the Conservative Party.

    Actually, I will miss Dave a bit. Why did he do it?
    He fucking lost and fucked up the country at the same time.
    So unlike Blair, who fucked up the country and didn't lose, and Brown, who fucked up the country before he lost. ;)
    How dare you. Brown has the best reputation of all C21 prime ministers. A reputation he will probably keep for some time.
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    MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 37,607
    Just looking at the consensus for Thursday, looks like it has gone from a 5-4 vote for a rate cut to a 6-3 vote for no extra QE or rate cut. Hopefully we're right and Carney holds the course.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Mortimer said:

    RobD said:

    I wonder of May will take soundings from her new Cabinet regarding a snap GE. Surely it is more likely now she was coronated?

    CROWNED!!!!!
    :p I knew that would illicit such a reaction.
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    surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.

    As long as Corbyn does not get second votes it will be fine. But this is the Labour party, so it is undoubtedly the case he will get loads of transfers.

    More seriously, a range of candidates taking Corbyn on in hustings and, hopefully, on TV may sway a few votes against him. The main point of my article remains the same: if Corbyn wins, Labour moves its focus to outside Parliament and so becomes increasingly irrelevant. If he loses, it's a long, hard road back; but there is a road.

    Whichever way you look at it, Labour is splitting. The fault lies with people like Margaret Beckett who lent Corbyn her name in nominating him.

    In all probability Corbyn will win again, so yes. But if by some miracle he loses I wouldn't categorise a load of Trots and Stalinists slinking off to the Greens as a split.

    He won't lose. He might even get 65%.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    Jonathan said:

    surbiton said:

    pbr2013 said:

    AndyJS said:

    David Cameron is no longer leader of the Conservative Party.

    Actually, I will miss Dave a bit. Why did he do it?
    He fucking lost and fucked up the country at the same time.
    So unlike Blair, who fucked up the country and didn't lose, and Brown, who fucked up the country before he lost. ;)
    How dare you. Brown has the best reputation of all C21 prime ministers. A reputation he will probably keep for some time.
    After all, he did save the world!
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    MTimTMTimT Posts: 7,034
    Mortimer said:

    John_M said:

    taffys said:

    ''Yes, it's odd how the LDs are basically a party full of old, white, straight men. Even the Tories are a more diverse bunch these days.''

    Yes but they are feeling VERY guilty about all of the above, so its OK.

    Male, Pale, Stale. Sadly, I couldn't think of a suitable homonym for 'irrelevant', so it'll have to do.
    Failed? Almost works....
    Story of the end of his candidacy ...

    Stale, pale, male fail rale and wail tale?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,721
    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.

    As long as Corbyn does not get second votes it will be fine. But this is the Labour party, so it is undoubtedly the case he will get loads of transfers.

    More seriously, a range of candidates taking Corbyn on in hustings and, hopefully, on TV may sway a few votes against him. The main point of my article remains the same: if Corbyn wins, Labour moves its focus to outside Parliament and so becomes increasingly irrelevant. If he loses, it's a long, hard road back; but there is a road.

    Whichever way you look at it, Labour is splitting. The fault lies with people like Margaret Beckett who lent Corbyn her name in nominating him.

    In all probability Corbyn will win again, so yes. But if by some miracle he loses I wouldn't categorise a load of Trots and Stalinists slinking off to the Greens as a split.

    He won't lose. He might even get 65%.
    Given the rush of new joiners it will be a disaster if he gets less than 75%
  • Options
    RobDRobD Posts: 58,961
    kle4 said:

    pbr2013 said:

    AndyJS said:

    David Cameron is no longer leader of the Conservative Party.

    Actually, I will miss Dave a bit. Why did he do it?
    He didn't have the strength to resist calls for a referendum , then wasn't up to the task of selling what he got from the EU. If he had to do it again, and couldn't avoid a vote, I imagine he would have risked another migrant crisis and Greek crisis and taken longer trying to force a deal.

    Despite Brexit, I will miss the coalition.
    You like coalition government? Filthy neutral scum.

    :D
  • Options
    AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    pbr2013 said:

    AndyJS said:

    David Cameron is no longer leader of the Conservative Party.

    Actually, I will miss Dave a bit. Why did he do it?
    Why did he do what? Hold the referendum?
  • Options
    LowlanderLowlander Posts: 941

    surbiton said:

    surbiton said:

    Scott_P said:

    @JeremyCliffe: Only Labour could have two "unity candidates" for leader https://t.co/7y3sz4jCxp

    I don't understand this one candidate nonsense. The Labour leader is not elected on FPTP.

    As long as Corbyn does not get second votes it will be fine. But this is the Labour party, so it is undoubtedly the case he will get loads of transfers.

    More seriously, a range of candidates taking Corbyn on in hustings and, hopefully, on TV may sway a few votes against him. The main point of my article remains the same: if Corbyn wins, Labour moves its focus to outside Parliament and so becomes increasingly irrelevant. If he loses, it's a long, hard road back; but there is a road.

    Whichever way you look at it, Labour is splitting. The fault lies with people like Margaret Beckett who lent Corbyn her name in nominating him.

    In all probability Corbyn will win again, so yes. But if by some miracle he loses I wouldn't categorise a load of Trots and Stalinists slinking off to the Greens as a split.

    And the great irony is that it's another example of Labour's subsequent demise which has been made much much worse by the Blair years. They had the mandate and the majority to bring in PR and they balked at the chance.

    Holding a left coalition together is always harder than a right coalition and this was well known and the seeds around the world were already demonstrating the likelihood (and they had already suffered one split 15 years earlier). Stupid, stupid Labour.
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