Labour faces a somewhat binary choice: be a Party or be Moral Crusade. The leadership and membership choose the latter. The MPs and remaining voters choose the former. Everyone else buys popcorn.
Harold Wilson succeeded well in making it both.
And no one since, which is a measure of his achievement.
15 years of Blairite shortlisting means the PLP is far to the right of both members and supporters.
If Corbyn survives there's a way to have the PLP survive as a Parliamentary Party united and led by Corbyn, and that would surely be mandatory reselection. If there was mandatory reselection then Corbyn could be supported by the vast majority of the MPs his party has after the next election.
Of course 40 seats could also be a majority of the seats his party wins but that's by the by.
15 years of Blairite shortlisting means the PLP is far to the right of both members and supporters.
If Corbyn survives there's a way to have the PLP survive as a Parliamentary Party united and led by Corbyn, and that would surely be mandatory reselection. If there was mandatory reselection then Corbyn could be supported by the vast majority of the MPs his party has after the next election.
Of course 40 seats could also be a majority of the seats his party wins but that's by the by.
I expect Corbyn won't do anything like nearly as badly as that. The real nightmare for the likes of Joff and Bobajob is when Corbyn's Labour still has ~ 200 seats... The hoped for crushing defeat simply won't come
Theresa needs to get cracking on her new cabinet then.
No sign of a ballot among members. I doubt if that will go down well but if she has a strong start and the pound climbs just before the holiday season the membership may swallow it.
SO, thanks for the article. I wish your cause good luck. The UK needs a strong opposition, which means one with a credible chance of winning an election.
Bah. Another tawdry round of applause and unconvincing ovation, as per Blair.
I don't despise Cameron, for all my criticism of his behaviour in recent months, but he should go at the first opportunity instead of clinging on for faux praise.
Bah. Another tawdry round of applause and unconvincing ovation, as per Blair.
I don't despise Cameron, for all my criticism of his behaviour in recent months, but he should go at the first opportunity instead of clinging on for faux praise.
Cameron led a round of applause for Blair. I can't see Corbyn returning the favour to Cameron.
15 years of Blairite shortlisting means the PLP is far to the right of both members and supporters.
Far to the right of members, yes. Far to the right of the 2015 vote, no. You are entirely wrong about that, hence why you and your ilk will trigger the destruction of a once great party. A sad day, but don't tell us you weren't warned.
Bah. Another tawdry round of applause and unconvincing ovation, as per Blair.
I don't despise Cameron, for all my criticism of his behaviour in recent months, but he should go at the first opportunity instead of clinging on for faux praise.
The Queen wasn't available before Wednesday so seems it is as quick as possible
Bah. Another tawdry round of applause and unconvincing ovation, as per Blair.
I don't despise Cameron, for all my criticism of his behaviour in recent months, but he should go at the first opportunity instead of clinging on for faux praise.
He's run the country for six years, and his party for eleven, and had to withstand some pretty awful attacks. He's won far more often than he's lost (though it's only the last loss that counts).
Let him have his moment. It's no big thing in the grand scheme of things.
Let me join the chorus of praise for your debut piece, SO. The only problem is it's so well written and so well argued I find it very hard to comment except to agree with every word.
I commented earlier today on the disconnection between senior members in a party and the membership and that has afflicted all parties in recent times. As an LD, the "shock" of 2015 was less of a shock to those who had seen council seats lost and members disappear since 2010 but the Party was in Government and had some influence.
There's the trade off - the purity of principle versus the practicality of power. I honestly believe Corbyn wants to be Prime Minister but he doesn't want to get his ideological hands dirty. The compromises of Blair and Wilson don't work for him. The people have to come to him, he won't go to them.
The corollary of that is the powerlessness of power - when parties in Government have no purpose and are just drifting along in Government but not governing. After 18 years and 13 years respectively, the Conservative and Labour parties were exhausted and the problem is the ability to think and re-invent in power is very limited.
Theresa needs to get cracking on her new cabinet then.
No sign of a ballot among members. I doubt if that will go down well but if she has a strong start and the pound climbs just before the holiday season the membership may swallow it.
The membership will swallow it. The Tory party is not a moral crusade it is a practical party. Supporters are practical people.
Bah. Another tawdry round of applause and unconvincing ovation, as per Blair.
I don't despise Cameron, for all my criticism of his behaviour in recent months, but he should go at the first opportunity instead of clinging on for faux praise.
It's not that. Needs to be fully ratified by the Tory party board and plus Theresa May doesn't want to do PMQs with less than 24 hours preparation.
Bah. Another tawdry round of applause and unconvincing ovation, as per Blair.
I don't despise Cameron, for all my criticism of his behaviour in recent months, but he should go at the first opportunity instead of clinging on for faux praise.
The Queen wasn't available before Wednesday so seems it is as quick as possible
Good to see Southam doing a lead piece and expanding our range of intelligent lead writers - surely one of the best in the political world.
SNIP
Incidentally, the problem with coronations is not that they result in a different choice, but that they don't get the membership buying into them. Corbyn's position is stronger than Gordon's would have been against a challenge, because Corbyn has a mandate. It's possible that if May runs into difficulties, she may wish she'd had one too.
Hypothetical as there was no challenge against Brown. There was a NCV against Corbyn which he lost 172-44. And he's still there. He has a mandate to remain from a tiny proportion of the electorate and a mandate to piss off from the vastly larger proportion of the Labour electorate represented by the 172.
How did Labour MP's vote in the election which he won?
Seems unlikely he got more than the 20-odd votes from his genuine nominees. But with 1M1V, we'll never know.
Oh I didn't realise there wasn't a way of knowing.
Well if all that's changed is that the MPs who didn't support him then are angry with him now, I would warn the Labour Party against overthrowing him for their own good. They might well lose a lot of committed support to gain a few approving nods from people that will vote Tory anyway
Total and utter rubbish. I'm sure some centrist sensible Conservatives would welcome his deposition on the basis that they believe in parliamentary democracy and upholding its principles. Indeed some will even go as far to say they don't want to see a great party of state destroyed despite being opponents of the party. Some Tories on here have said as much, and that does them great credit.
Yet the idea that the only key group who will celebrate Corbyn's departure are Tory voters is demonstrable rubbish. What about the millions of centrist and centre-left Labour supporters who are left cold by his insane far left agenda?
It seems your knowledge of the Labour coalition is equal or less than your grasp of the Omov system that elected Corbyn in the first place.
Bah. Another tawdry round of applause and unconvincing ovation, as per Blair.
I don't despise Cameron, for all my criticism of his behaviour in recent months, but he should go at the first opportunity instead of clinging on for faux praise.
The Queen wasn't available before Wednesday so seems it is as quick as possible
HMQ's 13th PM kissing hands on the 13th...
Inauspicious? Unlucky? For whom?
There does seem a reasonable chance that May will be her last Prime Minister. After all, Her Maj is 90 and May while taking a hot seat at a tough time, has the unanimous support of her rivals, one opposition party imploding, one only interested in Scotland and one with a mere 8 MPs. She could last some years and by then even if the Queen is still alive it seems very possible Charles or even William will have been made Regent.
Just seen Eagle's launch. What a flop. The hunt for any well-known journalist was just embarrassing.
An astute politician would have postponed it 24 hours.
A good politician would have launched a week ago!
Angela Eagle was 15 minutes into her launch when Leadsom stood down and the press deserted her. - It was horrible to watch, but quite beyond her control imo.
Let me join the chorus of praise for your debut piece, SO. The only problem is it's so well written and so well argued I find it very hard to comment except to agree with every word.
I commented earlier today on the disconnection between senior members in a party and the membership and that has afflicted all parties in recent times. As an LD, the "shock" of 2015 was less of a shock to those who had seen council seats lost and members disappear since 2010 but the Party was in Government and had some influence.
There's the trade off - the purity of principle versus the practicality of power. I honestly believe Corbyn wants to be Prime Minister but he doesn't want to get his ideological hands dirty. The compromises of Blair and Wilson don't work for him. The people have to come to him, he won't go to them.
The corollary of that is the powerlessness of power - when parties in Government have no purpose and are just drifting along in Government but not governing. After 18 years and 13 years respectively, the Conservative and Labour parties were exhausted and the problem is the ability to think and re-invent in power is very limited.
JC - and most Labour activists - believe that Labour is only ever in office, never in power.
Most left activists know that their values are opposed by most of the electorate. Now would be a good time for UKIP to call for socialism to be criminalised - except, of course, that it hasn't got a leader either.
Well after all this excitement I am pleased with Andrea Leadsom for her gracious resignation, delighted we have the best person for PM, also that she will be in post in 48 hours, the market reaction is positive, and labour are self destructing and, after Theresa May's earlier speech, near suicidal as she moves onto their territory.
Just seen Eagle's launch. What a flop. The hunt for any well-known journalist was just embarrassing.
An astute politician would have postponed it 24 hours.
A good politician would have launched a week ago!
Angela Eagle was 15 minutes into her launch when Leadsom stood down and the press deserted her. - It was horrible to watch, but quite beyond her control imo.
Then I apologise to her for thinking she's such an idiot. She fails the Napoleon test instead- she isn't lucky.
That being said if she had launched ten days ago as she should have done...
Just seen Eagle's launch. What a flop. The hunt for any well-known journalist was just embarrassing.
An astute politician would have postponed it 24 hours.
A good politician would have launched a week ago!
Angela Eagle was 15 minutes into her launch when Leadsom stood down and the press deserted her. - It was horrible to watch, but quite beyond her control imo.
Fair play to you Simon.
Yes, it was bad luck really. Let's face it, none of us had a scooby that Leadsom would quit today. She was 7-1 to do so by the end of July as recently as this morning!
Victory for Corbyn as he sees off his first Conservative leader.
Cameron saw off Miliband, Brown, and technically Blair.
But in the case of Blair, I don't think it was CMD that did the seeing off!
Watson must surely have the claim to Blair's demise.
Watson would not have acted without orders. He has neither the ability nor the courage to lead a coup himself, as he has just demonstrated with devastating clarity.
Just seen Eagle's launch. What a flop. The hunt for any well-known journalist was just embarrassing.
An astute politician would have postponed it 24 hours.
A good politician would have launched a week ago!
Angela Eagle was 15 minutes into her launch when Leadsom stood down and the press deserted her. - It was horrible to watch, but quite beyond her control imo.
Bah. Another tawdry round of applause and unconvincing ovation, as per Blair.
I don't despise Cameron, for all my criticism of his behaviour in recent months, but he should go at the first opportunity instead of clinging on for faux praise.
The Queen wasn't available before Wednesday so seems it is as quick as possible
HMQ's 13th PM kissing hands on the 13th...
Inauspicious? Unlucky? For whom?
Only if you believe in superstitious nonsense. You'll be denying the holocaust next!
Just seen Eagle's launch. What a flop. The hunt for any well-known journalist was just embarrassing.
An astute politician would have postponed it 24 hours.
A good politician would have launched a week ago!
Angela Eagle was 15 minutes into her launch when Leadsom stood down and the press deserted her. - It was horrible to watch, but quite beyond her control imo.
Fair play to you Simon.
Yes, it was bad luck really. Let's face it, none of us had a scooby that Leadsom would quit today. She was 7-1 to do so by the end of July as recently as this morning!
The thing was - we did know from 11.30 that the Leadsom thing was about to happen.
Eagle could easily have pushed back by an hour or two and got a bit more than 3 minutes of live air time. But she failed to even notice. Amateur doesn't even cover it.
I will also put my X against Angela Eagle (even though I think she's a lightweight) if it's a Corbyn vs Eagle choice.
Desperate, desperate times for progressive politics in this country.
You're worried about progressive politics on the day the Tories install the countries second female PM, while labour cowardice has seen them push a female stalking horse over a cliff
15 years of Blairite shortlisting means the PLP is far to the right of both members and supporters.
Far to the right of members, yes. Far to the right of the 2015 vote, no. You are entirely wrong about that, hence why you and your ilk will trigger the destruction of a once great party. A sad day, but don't tell us you weren't warned.
I remember the Tories here warning Brown would be a disaster. The Labour supporters here said Balls.
I remember the Tories here saying Ed Miliband would be a disaster. The Labour supporters on here said Balls.
And now we have the Tories saying Corbyn will be disaster. The Labour supporters can no longer say Balls but Eagle (who would be a disaster as well).
People who keep making the same mistakes over a period of a decade or so have learned nothing. Darwin wrote a lot on that..... I just say it's stupid.
Just seen Eagle's launch. What a flop. The hunt for any well-known journalist was just embarrassing.
An astute politician would have postponed it 24 hours.
A good politician would have launched a week ago!
Angela Eagle was 15 minutes into her launch when Leadsom stood down and the press deserted her. - It was horrible to watch, but quite beyond her control imo.
Fair play to you Simon.
Yes, it was bad luck really. Let's face it, none of us had a scooby that Leadsom would quit today. She was 7-1 to do so by the end of July as recently as this morning!
The thing was - we did know from 11.30 that the Leadsom thing was about to happen.
Eagle could easily have pushed back by an hour or two and got a bit more than 3 minutes of live air time. But she failed to even notice. Amateur doesn't even cover it.
Okay – if so I take that point but then I guess she would have had to delay it for much longer as all the press would be on Leadsom Q&A for the rest of the day. Anyway, tis done. Will make no difference in the scheme of things. Labour still needs to find a challenger who can save the party. The Eagle isn't that person!
Parties demanding a GE when the PM changes mid term is so token at this point, why even bother?
Bit worried May won't even try for single market, but that was always the risk, and not having any mandate from the members she might have gotten if she'd argued it in a contest, assuming she may have, she has little power to argue for it now. But she's still wrong the referendum was clear on FOM. It was suggestive on FOM, but not clear, because peopel don't explain why they voted on the ballots.
15 years of Blairite shortlisting means the PLP is far to the right of both members and supporters.
Far to the right of members, yes. Far to the right of the 2015 vote, no. You are entirely wrong about that, hence why you and your ilk will trigger the destruction of a once great party. A sad day, but don't tell us you weren't warned.
I remember the Tories here warning Brown would be a disaster. The Labour supporters here said Balls.
I remember the Tories here saying Ed Miliband would be a disaster. The Labour supporters on here said Balls.
And now we have the Tories saying Corbyn will be disaster. The Labour supporters can no longer say Balls but Eagle (who would be a disaster as well).
People who keep making the same mistakes over a period of a decade or so have learned nothing. Darwin wrote a lot on that..... I just say it's stupid.
Talleyrand said, they have learned nothing and forgotten nothing.
Bah. Another tawdry round of applause and unconvincing ovation, as per Blair.
I don't despise Cameron, for all my criticism of his behaviour in recent months, but he should go at the first opportunity instead of clinging on for faux praise.
That's an uncharitable view of things, I must say, and quite unlikely I think. It's noticable whenever a PM is on the way out people moan about them clinging on for all sorts of reasons that make no sense, like faux praise, when it seems more likely it is to get everything up together.
Mr. kle4, you (and others) may well be right. I just remember Blair going and being nauseated at the spectacle of applause for a man well past his sell by date.
If at the next election I have a choice between an hard left Labour party and moderate Labour party(committed to Leaving the E.U) I will vote for the former. However they could split the vot in which case my seat becomes a marginal again and voting Conservative means I could actually get a Tory MP in Ealing North.
A lot comes down to which way Steven Pound MP deciedes to stand as I think he has built up a strongish personal vote and also on who gets the brand.
You seem very sure May is going to sell Brexit out
Not at all. I am convinced she is going to deliver the best possible Out we can get.
What is cheering me up is that the IDS resurrection is over, as I am equally confident he and his team would have delivered the worst possible Out we could get.
In the interests of balance, is there anyone who *doesn't* think Labour are doomed?
No they are not doomed.
I doubt anyone here excepting probably NP has ever tried to canvas votes in a Labour heartland seat. The attachment is emotional and familial with a strong dose of dependency.
Whoever owns the 'Labour Party' brand at the end of the current squabble will be one of the two parties of government in the UK. Comrade Jez is strategically correct to wait his enemies out.
Cam does PMQ's and then heads off to see HMQ on Wednesday afternoon?
And then, like that, he's gone...
I bet he's going to be fairly relieved.
So, an bets on when we'll get the first volume of his memoirs? "Cameron: the pig years" ?
He's said he is going to remain an MP until the next GE right? I agree I think he will be relieved, PM is a ridiculously stressful job I would imagine and he has a young family which he will be able to spend more time with.
That kind of thinking is, frankly, indulgent. Political parties should not aspire to be pure expressions of democracy; they should be vehicles through which democracy can work. An excessive regard for members' views misses the point of what a party is for.
If members don't decide what the party is for, who does? Do you envisage a sort of deus ex machina? It can't, surely, be the MPs, who as I and every other MP and ex-MP well know are mostly elected not for their great wisdom and thought but because they represent their parties. If they in turn were to decide the purpose of the party, we would have a completely empty circular phenomenon.
The issue hasn't arisen very often since it's usually pretty well-defined what parties are for, and people join them accotrdingly and sit comfortably in them as MPs or ordinary members. But in a time of questioning of orthodox thinking, who decides if a party should change?
Bah. Another tawdry round of applause and unconvincing ovation, as per Blair.
I don't despise Cameron, for all my criticism of his behaviour in recent months, but he should go at the first opportunity instead of clinging on for faux praise.
The Queen wasn't available before Wednesday so seems it is as quick as possible
HMQ's 13th PM kissing hands on the 13th...
Inauspicious? Unlucky? For whom?
George III's 13th prime minister was Spencer Perceval. Not that that was unlucky.
Victoria never reached 13 PMs due to Palmerston, Gladstone, Salisbury and the like holding office for so long.
May is guaranteed to be PM of a Majority Con Government for the next 4 years.
Majority of 16 is small but perfectly big enough with a split and chaotic opposition.
And what would she gain - one extra year - the difference between next GE in 2021 rather than 2020 is trivial.
And there is a risk - any election is unpredictable - at this time anything could happen. Just because Lab is in disarray doesn't mean something else unexpected might happen. Who knows - UKIP may campaign saying May will backtrack on Brexit and make massive gains - from Lab and Con - costing May her majority.
And finally - May said when she launched her campaign no GE until 2020. She is a straightforward politician and she has a huge job to do - would it really be a good start to do a massive U-turn which looks opportunistic? Which may then massively backfire.
Not so sure it is trivial. With an Autumn election the difference is 18 months, not a year. The public finances for 19/20 already look terrible and no foundation for a re-election campaign. Brexit could conceivably be done within 5 years whereas in three years possibly still in progress or we could be in the immediate post-Brexit aftershock. Plus if she goes now she gets a mandate even if Brexit turns sour; if she waits and Brexit turns sour she is straight into Gordon brown territory,,,.
If at the next election I have a choice between an hard left Labour party and moderate Labour party(committed to Leaving the E.U) I will vote for the former. However they could split the vot in which case my seat becomes a marginal again and voting Conservative means I could actually get a Tory MP in Ealing North.
A lot comes down to which way Steven Pound MP deciedes to stand as I think he has built up a strongish personal vote and also on who gets the brand.
Most Labour MPs will lose their seats, if both wings use a full slate. I don't think any Labour seat will be safe.
Good to see Southam doing a lead piece and expanding our range of intelligent lead writers - surely one of the best in the political world.
SNIP
Incidentally, the problem with coronations is not that they result in a different choice, but that they don't get the membership buying into them. Corbyn's position is stronger than Gordon's would have been against a challenge, because Corbyn has a mandate. It's possible that if May runs into difficulties, she may wish she'd had one too.
Hypothetical as there was no challenge against Brown. There was a NCV against Corbyn which he lost 172-44. And he's still there. He has a mandate to remain from a tiny proportion of the electorate and a mandate to piss off from the vastly larger proportion of the Labour electorate represented by the 172.
How did Labour MP's vote in the election which he won?
Seems unlikely he got more than the 20-odd votes from his genuine nominees. But with 1M1V, we'll never know.
Oh I didn't realise there wasn't a way of knowing.
Well if all that's changed is that the MPs who didn't support him then are angry with him now, I would warn the Labour Party against overthrowing him for their own good. They might well lose a lot of committed support to gain a few approving nods from people that will vote Tory anyway
Total and utter rubbish. I'm sure some centrist sensible Conservatives would welcome his deposition on the basis that they believe in parliamentary democracy and upholding its principles. Indeed some will even go as far to say they don't want to see a great party of state destroyed despite being opponents of the party. Some Tories on here have said as much, and that does them great credit.
Yet the idea that the only key group who will celebrate Corbyn's departure are Tory voters is demonstrable rubbish. What about the millions of centrist and centre-left Labour supporters who are left cold by his insane far left agenda?
It seems your knowledge of the Labour coalition is equal or less than your grasp of the Omov system that elected Corbyn in the first place.
Life in a bubble
I wonder what it must be like to write enthusiastically about democracy while cheering on a coup against someone who won nearly 60% of the vote less than a year ago
In the interests of balance, is there anyone who *doesn't* think Labour are doomed?
No they are not doomed.
I doubt anyone here excepting probably NP has ever tried to canvas votes in a Labour heartland seat. The attachment is emotional and familial with a strong dose of dependency.
Whoever owns the 'Labour Party' brand at the end of the current squabble will be one of the two parties of government in the UK. Comrade Jez is strategically correct to wait his enemies out.
Tim Farron is just plain silly - trying to force an election as the Government does not have a mandate to take us out of Europe
Regardless of what Mr Farron thinks, It's very much in Theresa's interests to have a workable majority with the bastards subdued and onside - especially since the politics of the next few years will be on the bastards territory.
Right now she has a tiny majority, the bastards are in disarray, with the media still gunning for them - and the nutters opposite her are in civil war.
This situation won't last long.
If you were Theresa May, why wouldn't you call an election?
Pretty good outcome. Sorted within three weeks of referendum. Experienced leader, was remain in a low profile unenthusiastic way and previously Eurosceptic. Now confirmed will see Brexit through but will be EFTA/EEA not some Maoist WTO plan. Centrist enough to unite both sides of party.
Leadsom did the decent thing and put the Nation first. Kudos to her.
Can now look forward to cheaper food, increased trade with and importance for the commonwealth, no more CAP subsidies to rich landowners, decent fisheries conservation measures, no more of ministers pushing through things the electorate wont wear as compulsory under EU law. Never never never to Euro, burgundy passports and union jack on Driving licenses, Happy Days.
Meanwhile Labour seem to think they are in a Citizen Smith sequel....
That kind of thinking is, frankly, indulgent. Political parties should not aspire to be pure expressions of democracy; they should be vehicles through which democracy can work. An excessive regard for members' views misses the point of what a party is for.
If members don't decide what the party is for, who does? Do you envisage a sort of deus ex machina? It can't, surely, be the MPs, who as I and every other MP and ex-MP well know are mostly elected not for their great wisdom and thought but because they represent their parties. If they in turn were to decide the purpose of the party, we would have a completely empty circular phenomenon.
The issue hasn't arisen very often since it's usually pretty well-defined what parties are for, and people join them accotrdingly and sit comfortably in them as MPs or ordinary members. But in a time of questioning of orthodox thinking, who decides if a party should change?
Nick, do you see yourself standing once again on a Labour platform?
You seem very sure May is going to sell Brexit out
Not at all. I am convinced she is going to deliver the best possible Out we can get.
What is cheering me up is that the IDS resurrection is over, as I am equally confident he and his team would have delivered the worst possible Out we could get.
It seems quite amazing to me that we don't have a scooby what sort of out she would even prefer because she has never been put on the spot by the leadership process.
Good to see Southam doing a lead piece and expanding our range of intelligent lead writers - surely one of the best in the political world.
SNIP
Incidentally, the problem with coronations is not that they result in a different choice, but that they don't get the membership buying into them. Corbyn's position is stronger than Gordon's would have been against a challenge, because Corbyn has a mandate. It's possible that if May runs into difficulties, she may wish she'd had one too.
Hypothetical as there was no challenge against Brown. There was a NCV against Corbyn which he lost 172-44. And he's still there. He has a mandate to remain from a tiny proportion of the electorate and a mandate to piss off from the vastly larger proportion of the Labour electorate represented by the 172.
How did Labour MP's vote in the election which he won?
Seems unlikely he got more than the 20-odd votes from his genuine nominees. But with 1M1V, we'll never know.
Oh I didn't realise there wasn't a way of knowing.
Well if all that's changed is that the MPs who didn't support him then are angry with him now, I would warn the Labour Party against overthrowing him for their own good. They might well lose a lot of committed support to gain a few approving nods from people that will vote Tory anyway
Total and utter rubbish. I'm sure some centrist sensible Conservatives would welcome his deposition on the basis that they believe in parliamentary democracy and upholding its principles. Indeed some will even go as far to say they don't want to see a great party of state destroyed despite being opponents of the party. Some Tories on here have said as much, and that does them great credit.
Yet the idea that the only key group who will celebrate Corbyn's departure are Tory voters is demonstrable rubbish. What about the millions of centrist and centre-left Labour supporters who are left cold by his insane far left agenda?
It seems your knowledge of the Labour coalition is equal or less than your grasp of the Omov system that elected Corbyn in the first place.
Life in a bubble
A pointless and vacuous response that fails to address a single point I have made.
Monty opens a door. Behind it is a pointless and vacuous response. Do you switch?
Tim Farron is just plain silly - trying to force an election as the Government does not have a mandate to take us out of Europe
Regardless of what Mr Farron thinks, It's very much in Theresa's interests to have a workable majority with the bastards onside - especially since the politics of the next few years will be on the bastards territory.
Right now she has a tiny majority, the bastards are in disarray, with the media still gunning for them - and the nutters opposite her are in civil war.
If you were Theresa May, why wouldn't you call an election?
There is a possibility, small as it is, that a new HOC could conspire to prevent A50 being served
Serve that first and establish a competent government, then go to the Country
Tim Farron is just plain silly - trying to force an election as the Government does not have a mandate to take us out of Europe
Regardless of what Mr Farron thinks, It's very much in Theresa's interests to have a workable majority with the bastards subdued and onside - especially since the politics of the next few years will be on the bastards territory.
Right now she has a tiny majority, the bastards are in disarray, with the media still gunning for them - and the nutters opposite her are in civil war.
If you were Theresa May, why wouldn't you call an election?
Because she can't without repealing a law. And that takes distraction/effort better used elsewhere.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Bah. Another tawdry round of applause and unconvincing ovation, as per Blair.
I don't despise Cameron, for all my criticism of his behaviour in recent months, but he should go at the first opportunity instead of clinging on for faux praise.
The Queen wasn't available before Wednesday so seems it is as quick as possible
HMQ's 13th PM kissing hands on the 13th...
Inauspicious? Unlucky? For whom?
George III's 13th prime minister was Spencer Perceval. Not that that was unlucky.
Victoria never reached 13 PMs due to Palmerston, Gladstone, Salisbury and the like holding office for so long.
I do hope that doesn't happen to May! Perceval was also of course George's last PM in practice as in 1812 a Regency had been declared.
Indeed, Victoria had just 4 PMs from 1867 onwards - Disraeli, Gladstone, Salisbury and Rosebery (and he only managed 18 months). Before that Derby, Palmerston, Russell, Aberdeen, Peel, Melbourne. I make that 10 in total. But of course all of them except Aberdeen and Rosebery had more than one go (Peel and Mebourne under William). Shows how hard it was to unseat party leaders (Derby was leader for 22 years despite never winning an overall majority).
Pretty good outcome. Sorted within three weeks of referendum. Experienced leader, was remain in a low profile unenthusiastic way and previously Eurosceptic. Now confirmed will see Brexit through but will be EFTA/EEA not some Maoist WTO plan. Centrist enough to unite both sides of party.
Leadsom did the decent thing and put the Nation first. Kudos to her.
Meanwhile Labour seem to think they are in a Citizen Smith sequel....
Tim Farron is just plain silly - trying to force an election as the Government does not have a mandate to take us out of Europe
Regardless of what Mr Farron thinks, It's very much in Theresa's interests to have a workable majority with the bastards onside - especially since the politics of the next few years will be on the bastards territory.
Right now she has a tiny majority, the bastards are in disarray, with the media still gunning for them - and the nutters opposite her are in civil war.
If you were Theresa May, why wouldn't you call an election?
Recent polls have a Tory lead of 4%-8%, would that be enough to be confident that they'll improve their position? There could also still be a bit of a Brexit hangover for remain (Lib Dems) and leave (UKIP)
Gosh, listening to Angela Eagle is painful, isnt it?
I actually tried to mimic her voice the other day and the nearest I managed involved speaking from the top of my throat. If she spoke from her chest or near her diaphragm - she'd sound totally different.
Comments
Of course 40 seats could also be a majority of the seats his party wins but that's by the by.
The hoped for crushing defeat simply won't come
Theresa needs to get cracking on her new cabinet then.
No sign of a ballot among members. I doubt if that will go down well but if she has a strong start and the pound climbs just before the holiday season the membership may swallow it.
I don't despise Cameron, for all my criticism of his behaviour in recent months, but he should go at the first opportunity instead of clinging on for faux praise.
Had not assumed you were called Joff! Not heard that one before :-)
Great piece though, spot on
1% return in two days still available.
Good afternoon, everybody.
That seems really unlikely to me. Corbyn wouldn't even share a platform with him in the EU ref!
Let him have his moment. It's no big thing in the grand scheme of things.
Let me join the chorus of praise for your debut piece, SO. The only problem is it's so well written and so well argued I find it very hard to comment except to agree with every word.
I commented earlier today on the disconnection between senior members in a party and the membership and that has afflicted all parties in recent times. As an LD, the "shock" of 2015 was less of a shock to those who had seen council seats lost and members disappear since 2010 but the Party was in Government and had some influence.
There's the trade off - the purity of principle versus the practicality of power. I honestly believe Corbyn wants to be Prime Minister but he doesn't want to get his ideological hands dirty. The compromises of Blair and Wilson don't work for him. The people have to come to him, he won't go to them.
The corollary of that is the powerlessness of power - when parties in Government have no purpose and are just drifting along in Government but not governing. After 18 years and 13 years respectively, the Conservative and Labour parties were exhausted and the problem is the ability to think and re-invent in power is very limited.
May taking over now is the practical thing to do.
An astute politician would have postponed it 24 hours.
A good politician would have launched a week ago!
Mr. NorthWales, a fair point.
Inauspicious? Unlucky? For whom?
But in the case of Blair, I don't think it was CMD that did the seeing off!
Yet the idea that the only key group who will celebrate Corbyn's departure are Tory voters is demonstrable rubbish. What about the millions of centrist and centre-left Labour supporters who are left cold by his insane far left agenda?
It seems your knowledge of the Labour coalition is equal or less than your grasp of the Omov system that elected Corbyn in the first place.
Unlucky
Most left activists know that their values are opposed by most of the electorate. Now would be a good time for UKIP to call for socialism to be criminalised - except, of course, that it hasn't got a leader either.
Which is nice...
What is there not to like
That being said if she had launched ten days ago as she should have done...
Yes, it was bad luck really. Let's face it, none of us had a scooby that Leadsom would quit today. She was 7-1 to do so by the end of July as recently as this morning!
Tories stating that 9 weeks of infighting would do irreparable damage to the party, so they called it off
Labour have been at it for 9 months, and are digging in for the next 9 months.
Awesome
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/must-second-referendum-now/
"Its all hate"
"betrayed the kids"
"what about the nanny"
I agree Watson had a significant hand in it, but Blair was his own worst enemy in that regard.
Only if you believe in superstitious nonsense. You'll be denying the holocaust next!
Eagle could easily have pushed back by an hour or two and got a bit more than 3 minutes of live air time. But she failed to even notice. Amateur doesn't even cover it.
I remember the Tories here warning Brown would be a disaster. The Labour supporters here said Balls.
I remember the Tories here saying Ed Miliband would be a disaster. The Labour supporters on here said Balls.
And now we have the Tories saying Corbyn will be disaster. The Labour supporters can no longer say Balls but Eagle (who would be a disaster as well).
People who keep making the same mistakes over a period of a decade or so have learned nothing. Darwin wrote a lot on that..... I just say it's stupid.
Bit worried May won't even try for single market, but that was always the risk, and not having any mandate from the members she might have gotten if she'd argued it in a contest, assuming she may have, she has little power to argue for it now. But she's still wrong the referendum was clear on FOM. It was suggestive on FOM, but not clear, because peopel don't explain why they voted on the ballots.
It could equally be an epitaph for Labour.
And then, like that, he's gone...
So, an bets on when we'll get the first volume of his memoirs? "Cameron: the pig years" ?
A lot comes down to which way Steven Pound MP deciedes to stand as I think he has built up a strongish personal vote and also on who gets the brand.
What is cheering me up is that the IDS resurrection is over, as I am equally confident he and his team would have delivered the worst possible Out we could get.
I doubt anyone here excepting probably NP has ever tried to canvas votes in a Labour heartland seat. The attachment is emotional and familial with a strong dose of dependency.
Whoever owns the 'Labour Party' brand at the end of the current squabble will be one of the two parties of government in the UK. Comrade Jez is strategically correct to wait his enemies out.
@IainDale: .@afneil @JohnRentoul Trade cannot possibly be Osborne. Has to be a Brexiter, as do Chancellor & Foreign Secretary IMHO.
Mr. Jessop, doubt it'll be before 2020. How long did Blair wait?
Chillax dudes!
The issue hasn't arisen very often since it's usually pretty well-defined what parties are for, and people join them accotrdingly and sit comfortably in them as MPs or ordinary members. But in a time of questioning of orthodox thinking, who decides if a party should change?
Victoria never reached 13 PMs due to Palmerston, Gladstone, Salisbury and the like holding office for so long.
I wonder what it must be like to write enthusiastically about democracy while cheering on a coup against someone who won nearly 60% of the vote less than a year ago
2010, so a little over three years.
Did Brown do an official autobiography?
Right now she has a tiny majority, the bastards are in disarray, with the media still gunning for them - and the nutters opposite her are in civil war.
This situation won't last long.
If you were Theresa May, why wouldn't you call an election?
Leadsom did the decent thing and put the Nation first. Kudos to her.
Can now look forward to cheaper food, increased trade with and importance for the commonwealth, no more CAP subsidies to rich landowners, decent fisheries conservation measures, no more of ministers pushing through things the electorate wont wear as compulsory under EU law. Never never never to Euro, burgundy passports and union jack on Driving licenses, Happy Days.
Meanwhile Labour seem to think they are in a Citizen Smith sequel....
Monty opens a door. Behind it is a pointless and vacuous response. Do you switch?
LOL.
Serve that first and establish a competent government, then go to the Country
Because she can't without repealing a law. And that takes distraction/effort better used elsewhere.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Indeed, Victoria had just 4 PMs from 1867 onwards - Disraeli, Gladstone, Salisbury and Rosebery (and he only managed 18 months). Before that Derby, Palmerston, Russell, Aberdeen, Peel, Melbourne. I make that 10 in total. But of course all of them except Aberdeen and Rosebery had more than one go (Peel and Mebourne under William). Shows how hard it was to unseat party leaders (Derby was leader for 22 years despite never winning an overall majority).
Recent polls have a Tory lead of 4%-8%, would that be enough to be confident that they'll improve their position? There could also still be a bit of a Brexit hangover for remain (Lib Dems) and leave (UKIP)